Lawrence of Arabia / Bushmills Black Bush

0:00 In 1962, director, David lean and star. Peter O'Toole, gave the world of five course, meal of a drama full of rivalries, ambition War impassable desert. And of course camels. Lots and lots of camels in 2022. We finish out a flight from a famous Irish whiskey maker. The film is Lawrence of Arabia, the whiskey is Bushmills, Black Bush and we'll review them both this is Is the film and whiskey podcast, welcome to the film and whiskey podcast, where each week, we review a classic movie and a glass of whiskey. I'm Bob book, I'm Reggie and this We are kicking off three films by the director David lean. We're going out of chronological order, as you'll come to see. I were actually going in reverse chronological order because we are looking at one of the most famous. Highly regarded universally praised, movies of all time. Currently sits, I believe at number five on the afi's, 100 greatest films of all time list and we had not gotten around to it.

1:26 I'm talking about Lawrence of Arabia, Brad. This is a, this is pretty Monumental episode for us. Yeah, it is the longest movie we have watched in filming whiskey podcast. History. It's so long. It is such a long movie, but just keeps going. And, and then like, it's not even like the Return of the King problem, where you think that there's a lot of endings. Like, I don't know. I think you could have stopped this movie after an hour and people would be like, yeah, that was a full movie. Yeah. And you could have done the same thing, an hour and a half to two and a half three, three and a half. But for some reason, he chose three hours and 47 minutes to be, you know what we're done.

2:10 Now, I'm over it, we're closing the book now. It's this is where we ended, you know, a good place to start. Today might be talking about long movies because I'm going to be real with you Brad. I have lots of thoughts on this movie, but I really struggled to kind of put them down on paper and form a coherent structure for this episode. Usually I have, you know, I'm going to talk about this and then that will lead into this and we put together the bones of an episode. I really, I just feel like I have so many disparate thoughts going on in my mind that we're just probably going to talk and they'll get shaken loose at some point. But since we're already on the topic of long movies, this really inspired in me a tension, I guess about like, what's it going to be like to try to explain? In long movies to someone who's coming of age. Now, when there really isn't a utilitarian need to make a long movie anymore, like, everything is serialized, everything is made for Disney plus and they make it in, you know, eight half hours or 40 minutes or whatever length. And then you get these little mini seasons of a show. And so instead of telling one long movie, even like things that could be a two-and-a-half-hour movie are now made into like four-part miniseries. Series that they show on Hulu.

3:31 Everything is serialized now and it's because you have the opportunity to stop and re-watch and go back and you didn't have that in 1962. And so the idea of a long movie, I mean, like, it's got to be hard to even explain why people were interested in that too. You know, I like a teenager today, it would be like, telling them like, hey, like, you know, that TV show Sherlock, that's really good. Like just watched three episodes in a row without stopping or Turning it off, or taking a break and that's what it would be like to watch Lawrence of Arabia in theaters, you get 10 minutes to get up and walk around in p and then you gotta come back and watch more. I don't even know if it was 10 minutes, dude. I think it was like five or six.

4:14 Yeah, yeah, it's, you really got to make sure there's no line like, you gotta, I've gotta make a beeline for the bathroom p and then immediately, run back to the theater. Yeah, I Bob, I think that long movies really are a Add art form. Yeah, I just don't see this ever coming back. Like Lord of the Rings, is the last movies. I can think of that were wildly popular and longer than 180 minutes. Well, I mean, even with the Hobbit movies, you know, the first two were, you know, the first ones, three hours. The second one is almost three hours and then the third one, first of all, you could tell that they had stretched the plot too thin and they really had just run out of things to say, but I think that movie is only like 2 hours and 20 minutes.

4:58 And it's by far the Artists in that sort of Middle-earth Saga button, you know, the Return of the King really was the last movie that did this. And from that point on Studio started to get a little bit, wiser about squeezing money out of people. And so, you know, the last Harry Potter movie gets split into two movies instead of being one long movie and then they do that with every successive IP. The Hunger Games two movies at the end, you know, Twilight, two movies, at the end, everything is two movies and wildly wildly successful franchise. I like wasn't me. I didn't say it was good, but it was definitely successful. They made a lot of money off of it. You can trace the direct lineage from Lawrence of Arabia.

5:39 All the way through to the Twilight films is what I'm sure. Can they are both movies. Yeah, I don't know, man. I've just been thinking about like, it's really interesting. As we talk about our movie theaters, going to die, our movies, going to die. Is everything just going to get replaced with with TV shows now because we have no need to go out and watch a long form. Version of this. And I think Dune, what's that? How long was? Dune? Dune was like to, like just a little over two and a half, it felt like every like it's a big movie and it has a lot of this going on in it. But it also and I mean I didn't crack the three hour mark. So you just don't have movies like this anymore and I understand like it's one of those things where would it be cool to have an Epic movie? Every now and then that is just a freaking long movie. Yes, it would but even as a guy Who loves Cinema and loves the idea of that.

6:32 It's like, that's a hard sell. Yeah, I'm curious Bob. Do you are you upset that the long form film, you know, 3 plus our movie is a dying? If not dead breed. I think that. Yes. And no, like, I don't miss having my entire day taken up by a movie anymore. And it is really nice to be able to watch a movie like this in multiple chunks, like, on my couch. But there is something about like, When you get a three and a half hour movie, you don't usually get a three-and-a-half hour movie. That's about like two people walking gently through the English Countryside. Like it's theirs. There is a an event nice about it.

7:14 And like, we have event movie still, like, I would say, Dune was a great one where, like, I walked into that movie knowing the scope and the scale of this is going to be massive, but even then it was like, man. If this had been made 10 years earlier, would they have given Denis Villeneuve? The Leeway to make it be 3 hours and 15 minutes. Like, could this have been a Titanic length movie instead of a gladiator length movie? You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I would. But I've never heard of that movie. So don't feel like anybody's ever told me about it. I mean I guess we are hey we're getting Avatar 2 is coming out in a couple weeks here and yeah the official runtime on that is like 3 hours and 15.

7:55 So. Okay Jimmy will our boy. Jim Cameron is trying real hard to bring it back. Yeah, I was gonna say, well, we'll see how much that resonates with, with the public. I still am not sure why the original Avatar was. So, such a hit, but we'll see if it maintains its cultural cachet, if you will. I really just don't see it holding up very well. All right. Well, how does this all apply to Lawrence of Arabia? I guess we have to address that at some point since that's the film of the day. So let's Take a step back. Let's transition to Brad explains. This is the part of the podcast, where Brad breaks down the plot of the movie that he has just seen often for the first time Brad.

8:41 This was your first time seeing Lawrence of Arabia, right? And it sure was. Yeah. Do you think that, whatever your opinion of the movie, overall? Do you think that it's better that we watched this movie like in season six than if we had watched it in season one. Yeah, I think that. Well, I don't know because this is the kind of movie. I grew up watching, mmm. Okay. Just not necessarily a three-hour one, you know what I mean? Yeah. Like I feel like what this really feels like a lot of different westerns. Like honestly as we were watching this, I was thinking about the Searchers, you know, and I know that the search was obviously a big influence on David lean.

9:22 But are what wait, was it the other way? Well, you're right. It was he watching them watching a ton to prepare for how to shoot this baby. Yeah. So it really reminded me of a lot of westerns. So honestly I think I would have gotten along just fine with it. The length would have gotten me a little bit. Yeah. Well I think this is like one of those movies and we'll get into talking about. I'm already stepping on Brad explains here but it's one of those movies where like you remember how big and how long and how epic the scope is. But when you get into the nitty-gritty of watching the movie, like it's a very interior movie and there's not a lot of dialogue and there's a lot of time to ruminate on the theme. Things that are going on in the movie. And so it's a much smaller movie told on a really, really big scale. And I wonder like if that would have been as effective when we first started diving into movies and season 1, as it is now that we've got, you know, 200 under our belts here. But I guess he was like I guess we'll find out because it's time for us to put 60 seconds on the clock here. Brad is going to try to break down the plot of this film. All right you got one minute and go. It's of Arabia, is a film loose biopic of a man named TE Lawrence, who is a British officer who somehow was able to unite the, the disparate Waring rivalry rivalry ridden, tribes of Arabia, and yeah, and worked with them so that they could fight off the Turkish invading

10:55 Force. This was set in, probably nineteen eighteen or nineteen, nineteen. During World War One and he was massively successful in his Venture. He saves the lives of a lot of Arabians. He leads them in battle, he blows up trains. It's it, there's all sorts of like you said, Bob it's an interior movie. It's showing how TE Lawrence really struggled to understand who he was in this world and what he wanted to be and where he wanted to lead them and if he would be able to do it and it's it is the very Finish in of an Epic film. Yes. All right. I want to I want to focus in a little bit on Lawrence as a character. Because if there is still one part of this movie, I struggle with its that the movie kind of hinges on the fact that nobody, including Lawrence himself.

11:50 Really understands Lawrence is motivations. And so, because he is an enigma to everyone, it's really hard to portray. A that on film, especially when you're being asked to follow this characters Arc over four hours and I'll admit, I think every once in a while, it really tried my patience and the length of the movie, didn't try, my patience. The pace of the movie, didn't try my patience. It was the fact that I couldn't tell if Lawrence was a hero or a villain or simply meant to be a complicated character. And I think, obviously, you know, the end of the movie, It's Like Citizen Kane in that way, where everyone has their opinion of him and no one truly knows him. But I found Lawrence himself to actually be a far less compelling character than someone like, Charles Foster Kane, who, you know, for all of his flaws was at least very charismatic and TE Lawrence is not that and so it just it was a struggle for me to sympathize to even at some point, like, expend the energy to try to understand.

13:00 This character. Because after a while it was, I don't know. It just like the futility of trying to understand this character really set into me and that led to some aggravation. If I'm being honest. Yeah, I am 100% with you, Bob. I think that the beauty of Cain in, you know, in Citizen Kane is the fact that he gives you just enough of a backstory that you feel the, the tension of his childhood. Propelling him on to do great things. Whereas like with Lawrence it doesn't feel like there's any real motivation for him to do the things that he's doing. He just kind of gets really riled up randomly about random things and then gets really down on himself and and depressed and feels like he can't do anything, right? And then, all it takes is one person to be like, but Lawrence. You can do it and he's like, I never thought of it that he's like I am a guy.

14:00 God like I yes yes it's very up-and-down. Existence for TE Lawrence. Yes. And I like honestly it it felt weirdly prescient of the Mental Health crisis that we have in the u.s. now. I don't where I'm like but yes, but you know what I mean? Like watching him felt like a very honest portrayal of somebody who is struggling with their mental health and has times of manic. The and then long periods of depression and, you know, everything in between and yet while he is doing all of this. He's also you know, Gathering a warband of Arabian Warriors and like destroying the Turkish forces in the area and aiding the British push against the Turks and it's just it's a wild plot that I'm like I can barely believe as the the as the audience member, you know.

15:02 So I think maybe this is a good place to talk about some of the subtext of the movie. Usually we get into this kind of stuff in the back half, but because like the movie is called Lawrence of Arabia, right? It is it is about him and it's not even so much about what he does as it tries to be a movie about who he is or the unknowability of who he is. And because of that, you know, it's been widely speculated forever. That Lawrence was homosexual And obviously, they can't portray that in a movie in 1962, at least not. Overtly, there are definitely some scenes that suggest it. And there's obviously a scene, you know, in the last hour of the movie where he's captured by the Turkish forces and the the Turkish Bay is very obviously wanting to rape him and probably does rape him and it's it affects Lawrence. The psyche for a good portion of the film after that. So there's definitely like there's a lot of homosexual subtext going on in this movie and David lean even says you know I tried to suggest Chest that he may have a relationship with these two young boys that he was taking across the desert, and maybe him and this character, Sheriff Ali had a romantic relationship and all, you know, I don't want to set that aside but they use that subtext to drive home. The point that Lawrence doesn't belong anywhere and that he feels like an outsider wherever he goes, and that no amount of adulation from people.

16:26 No amount of conquering, you know, being a conquering Force No amount of building himself up into a God. No amount of self-hatred makes him feel like he understands himself. And so the, the homosexual component of the movie is used to reinforce that and again, I really like that. They are using those themes to reinforce the larger theme, but it never feels like it goes anywhere. It just it's, I mean, it's ultimately that's a very sad movie like this. Guy just is doomed to never feel like he belongs anywhere and that's kind of like the last image of the movie.

17:07 I don't know. I just I feel like there's no closure to the film. There's and because it leaves you with that open-endedness, and that sort of like, oh, we're not going out with a bang. We're going out with a whimper here at the end of the film. I've just always really struggled with those decisions, not that they're wrong, but they just don't always work for me. Well, that's why I think you The opening of the movie is him, you know, riding his motorcycle and the English Countryside, and he's still like pushing the envelope, pushing the limits, because he's not comfortable with where he's at. He's, you know, always has to be flying forward into the future. And I think that the thing that people remember about, Lawrence of Arabia, isn't really much of anything what we've talked about so far.

17:55 It's the desert. Yeah, right. Like, that's what you remember about. Lawrence of Arabia but I think I think that what lien tried to do, And I think it's something he does. Extraordinarily successfully is to say that, like, you can never predict what the desert will do. You can't understand the difficulties of living in such an arid terrain, until you've been there. And even once you've been there, you like the Arabians that he works with continually tell him like you are crazy, you don't understand the desert. No one can understand the desert like it. I will kill you before you come to know it.

18:37 Yeah. And I think that it's a obvious metaphor for TE Lawrence himself. Like he is completely a noble, even to himself. He can't figure out the things that he does. Yeah. And so I think that the way lean pairs, those two themes and you know, kind of entwines them into one driving force for the film is really admirable for sure. And I think like if there is another theme to the movie, like there's so there's that theme of this complicated character who is ultimately unknowable and this is this is really like a scathing indictment of britishness. If I can call it that like it's a really interesting take down of colonialism and the British sensibility and the sort of like to face admits that I think David lean's sees in the British sensibility and I I really liked the movie.

19:31 Kind of takes on many different forms as it goes along, like, it's an adventure movie, and then it's a drama. And then it's like a very different kind of drama. And then you get into Political Intrigue and diplomacy. And in the last, like half hour of the movie, it really clicks into Focus. That Lawrence has been used as a pawn, by the British government. And I mean you kind of see that coming as a viewer, they talked about it for most of the movie and Lawrence himself doesn't realize he's falling. Pray to that but there's also the reveal that he's kind of been being used as a pawn by the Arabians as well and that there's this great line that Alec Guinness has at the end of the movie where he basically says, like, you know, if we're being frank aren't we both glad to be rid of him and this man who has poured himself into what he sees as like his Crusade and his Destiny, has ultimately just been used to accomplish the ends that he never wanted to have accomplished.

20:29 Pushed in the first place. And so like I'm wasn't expecting this movie to have as much kind of like, you know, we talked about Lawrence having self-loathing, I think lean kind of has self-loathing toward his own britishness and it really kind of comes out here in this movie. And I say that especially because next week, we're watching his other best picture winning film, The Bridge on the River. Kwai and it was really cool to watch these like on back-to-back days because there's so much. common there and there's that that same kind of sensibility of like Britishness is weird and needs to be exposed for what it is and to all of our British listeners.

21:10 Like I'm not saying I agree with it. I'm just saying, like it's very plainly there in the text of the movie and I found it to be like one of the movies. Major themes. Yeah, I was a famously British director. David lean is one saying this. Yeah, I mean because in the end, the best people to critique A culture are the people within the culture, right? And I think that sometimes you can take it too far. But what I think that lien does here is, is point out the continuing fact that British interests overseas are never necessarily for the betterment of the people who live in those countries. Hmm.

21:54 And you get the feel of that and I think that's why I really appreciate Prince Faisal so much, you know, played by Alec Guinness. I think that There's an element of honor and dignity, and intelligence and cunning to him. That is only matched by the other British High authorities in this movie. And I think that that's leans way of kind of saying like like yes, the British are cunning and bad in the conquerors. But the the Arabians have a defender of their own who can match them with for wit. Yeah. And I think that's kind of a subtle way of him saying like Like yeah. What the British aren't is doing isn't great, but every country has its intelligent people that can work, you know, the the political realm like a chessboard and I really enjoyed the character Prince Faisal, especially with those last few scenes that you have with it yet because he really disappears from the movie for like the whole second half of the film and then he comes back in at the end of the movie and you realize he's kind of been pulling strings the whole time and it needs a really it's a great performance by Alec Guinness again like Let's get it out of the way.

23:04 Now, Alec Guinness, a white guy playing an Arabian Prince. You've got Anthony Quinn, an American playing an Arabian, like yes, this would not happen today. I'm sure it's problematic in a lot of ways, but like, the performance itself, it's a really, really great performance. Full of like you said, there's a dignity to it, but then also, there is a an element of cunning to it. And yeah, I really loved Alec Guinness. I think this is a good place to get into talking. Thing about performances, I don't know that I want to start with Peter O'Toole because I have a lot of feelings about Peter of Toulon this movie but maybe let's start with The Supporting Cast Brad who's somebody that you would want to point out.

23:47 I mean I think that Omar Sharif is the second lead in this film and I think he does just an excellent job of being a Counterpoint to to Lawrence's manic phases. The that he is inability to point out the obvious to keep him a little bit calmer than he might have been. And I think what I really appreciate is that the the chemistry between Lawrence and Ali is such that they have such animosity. The first time they meet and you see the Arc of their friendship grow and they trust one another more and more, and it's not just a didn't trust him.

24:31 Now, something happened and he He saved my life and now, I trust him. Implicitly, like, I feel like you would get that out of a lot of other movies. This movie doesn't do that, because it takes 17 hours to watch the movie. You have time to watch them grow and develop a friendship, where they trust one another. And so I think that the the acting of Omar Sharif in this is really impeccable, I think Omar Sharif, is he gives the best performance in the whole movie and he does a lot But with a little especially in the first half of the film, the second half, they allow him to really flesh out his character, but he never gets the, you know, I'm going to run off behind a rock and brewed thing, that Peter O'Toole gets like eight times in this movie or dance around, in a circle with his new clothes.

25:20 Yeah, he doesn't get those scenes and so he's not as, I don't know, she's not as complex of a character, but he's not immediately given those moments to like show his layers and it's not really until the last hours. Or so of the movie, when Lawrence starts really breaching his own, ethical code, that sheriff, Ali gets to be the conscience of the movie and I think Omar Sharif really just excels in those scenes. I think another really great performance is Anthony Quinn as out of Abu tayi and people point to this performance as like the hammy is performance in the movie and I guess it kind of is but he's he's the hot head, right? Like we're going to watch some Kurosawa movies at some point Brad in a lot of Kurosawa. Samurai movies, the character that toshiro mifune plays is always like this character.

26:10 He's the Hot Head, he's over the top, he's super animated. He's often used as comic relief for good portions of the movie but he also is someone who is a man of convictions and who understands the political climate. And what I really love about this movie is that at no point, does it allow you to fall under the impression that Lawrence initially? He has, which he, you know, he calls the Arab people greedy, barbarous and cruel. He calls them, a silly people, a little people and the movies, like absolutely not. This guy has no idea what he's talking about and we're going to show you exactly why it is a problem that the British are this arrogant coming into this area of the world because they just don't know what they're getting into. Yeah, I think that the one of the most important takeaways from this film is the fact that just because you might have artillery you no more.

27:07 Advanced technology does not make you morally or ethically superior to other peoples of the world. And yet the British continually think that they have, the upper hand on everything compared to these Arabian tribes, and I agree with you. I think that Anthony Quinn portrays a Your snis in his character that shows how loyal and careful and cunning he is at protecting his tribes history and Heritage and and drawing them forward into the future. But but carefully. Yeah. And not in such a way that it destroys who they are as a people group well. And I think that like, going back to Alec Guinness is character, Prince, Faisal.

27:54 That's the best encapsulation of this whole thing, right? Right? And you see it in next week's movie, The Bridge on the River, Kwai in that the Japanese who are running the prisoner of war camp, leverage, the British has like the British troops. I don't know what the word is, don't call it arrogance, but like their need for civility. And their need to think that they can bring civilization, they leverage that against them and give them to build this bridge under their own accord that they should never be building. And it's the same thing here. The first time you see Prince Faisal Lawrence is kind of riding up over this mountain range. And you see that they're getting like dive bombed by these airplanes, and the the British officer, who stationed, there is complaining to Lawrence and says, like I told him to move farther Inland or Downstream or whatever he says, and he's like, they need to move out of range and he won't do it because he doesn't understand what artillery is and the farther you get into the movie. The more, you realize that what Alec Guinness is character, Prince, Faisal is doing, is he's Waiting for the opportunity for the British to think that this is their idea and to allow the British to take all the credit.

29:07 And to, you know, have these military victories, and these parades thrown in their own honor to give him what he ultimately wants. At the end of the movie, he totally uses their own arrogance against them and he does the same with Lawrence. And again, it gets back to this theme of like, hey, we British people think we know everything and we really don't Hmm. And I think I don't know if I can get a little bit controversial here Bob. I think that's why it's so important to look past the surface level of a lot of movies because I feel like a lot of people might look at this film and go oh Alec Guinness famously, white British man is playing and Arabian and that's bad and so the movies bad and you know, while is there a reality where if you re made this movie, you could Have any number of great Arabian actors play him?

30:01 Sure. Like I don't think that's a bad thing to do that, but I think it's also a bad thing to dismiss this movie on that on those grounds. I think that there's so much to be gained from this film. And when you really spend time with it, you realize how countercultural this film was to be released in 1962. Only, you know, like 20 years after World War 2 and only 40 years, World War One, like most of the people who are watching this movie would have been alive when these events were happening. So, like, this movie is incredibly countercultural for the decade that it came out. Absolutely. Well, and I want to tease our discussion of Peter O'Toole by pointing out, one of my favorite moments in the movie. And it's when Prince Faisal keeps Lawrence back in his tent and starts to kind of plant that little worm in his ear and he says, in order to be great again. Arabia needs the English or, and then, and that Peter O'Toole goes or what he says, or a miracle. And that's when Lawrence decides, I'm gonna do this thing.

31:11 I've got to be that mirror because, yeah, and it's because he does not want to identify himself with the British. Like he thinks that he is something different, that he is something other and in a lot of ways better. And that's why, you know, at the end of the movie, when he is completely defeated and humbled and Is like, I'm not a God. I'm just a man. He goes and tells that to General Allenby and Allenby says, no, no. You're the most extraordinary man I've ever known. And it's a moment that kind of reminds me of the end of young adult when Charlize Theron is like finally, humbled and then somebody tells them what they want to hear. But even in that moment, he resolves himself, not to do what the British want him to do. But to go to Damascus, and take it over before the British get there, as a way of saying, F you to the British and McGinnis recognizes that in Lawrence from the very, very beginning and it's really not until the end of the movie that you come to understand like, how early on this guy knew how to leverage that against him.

32:09 And I think that that Guinness plays it so well. And, and again, we'll talk about Peter O'Toole, but to his credit, he plays it really well also. And I think that's the problem with a for our epic. You almost like I didn't necessarily like, think about that depth of of development and Prince, Faisal. That's because I need to watch this movie, probably two or three more times to really put the full picture together of everything that's happening. And if I'm being honest, I might watch this movie one more time in my lifetime. Yeah you know just at some point with my kids when they're in their teen years just to be like hey we're going to watch this over the next 3 nights because it's Lawrence of Arabia and right and that might be the last time I ever wanted this movie Bob well also because we're you know, we're canceling it because of The people who are playing the Arabians and also because he comes right out Prince, Faisal comes right out and says he wants to make Arabia great again.

33:04 So we've got Maga in this movie, too. Like, all right, man, it's time for us to take a break. Let's drink this Bushmills. A super thematically appropriate whiskey. Right? What do you say? We get to it bread. Well, let's make Arabia great again, Bob. Some whiskey Nation. Do you ever think about Awards course he do you drink whiskey and watch movies which means that, you know, that nothing is validated until a group of random people say hey we love what you're doing. The awesome thing about doc Swensons, whiskey is that it isn't just some group of schlubs that are given them Awards. They have been winning attention from some of the most important whiskey experts that you can imagine.

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34:32 Alright, today we are checking out Bushmills, Black Bush. This is completing the trilogy of Bushmills this season. I bought a bottle of Bushmills at holiday season, a couple years ago and it came with two little 50ml samples of red, bush, and Black Bush. So we got three for the price of one here, Brad. I really loved the red bush. A couple weeks ago, that wasn't freaking fantastic. And essentially, you know, if I can oversimplify here, a bit Bushmills uses a blend of whiskey That are aged in a combination of X bourbon, barrels, and X, Sherry casks. And what they did with red Bush was only released the stuff that was aged in the bourbon barrels. And what they do with Black Bush is only released the stuff that was aged in the Sherry casks.

35:16 So this isn't all share read Irish whiskey, it's 80 proof. It's, you know, like it's basically half of what you would get in a bottle of Bushmills. Hmm, and having drank regular Bushmills, and the red bush. Now, We thought that regular Bushmills was kind of met, we thought that the red Bush was fantastic and so that does not give me high hopes for Black Bush because something had to make Bushmills meth. And so I'm hoping this isn't like the counterbalance to how good red Bush was. Yeah, this honestly, kind of reminds me of a few months back. We received a sample and man, I can see the bottle in my head right now, but I can't think of the product where they They're blended whiskey.

36:03 It was an Irish whiskey. It was, oh yeah, Irish pot still Keepers. Harnett Keepers heart. Thank you where they sent us essentially their final product. And then a sample of each of the three things they use to make their product. And I feel like, Bushmills, took that idea, and just made three products out of it. And I, honestly, I kind of like that, like, it would be fun to do a flight like, all right, in a row of Bushmills and then they're ready. Red bush, and then they're black Bush. Oh, we're kind of doing that, they're just, you know, spread multiple weeks apart. So, you know, we're gonna dive in here. I mean, I really don't have too much more to say it like, it's, it's everything that we said about Bushmills is true about this except for the bourbon barrels part.

36:47 It's aged for at least three years as Irish, whiskey is triple distilled as Bushmills. Advertisers. Let's just dive in, man, what are you picking up? On the nose of this Black Bush. This one comes across, extremely malti. And then I get a little Bit of Honey, some stone fruit Pratt, like kind of like cherish notes and a little bit of vanilla on the back ends I think I would give it like a seven and a half on the nose it's solid I do like this quite a bit and it's it's got some like Darkness like there's a darker character to this than I would have expected. It is very malty and on the back end like we're you got vanilla, I got some like brown sugar. Like there is almost just a wisp of bourbon Enos to this, which is I mean obviously Wrong like yeah, but it's there for me. The Sherry influence.

37:36 I'm not getting so much Cherry. It does definitely smell. Like there's some wine character, but it seems like a darker red grape on the nose, then a Sherry. And so like yeah I understand why they labeled this as Black Bush. Now I kept thinking like you know Sherry and the color black don't seem like they would go together to me. But but this definitely has some darker character to it. I like that. I think this is a more interesting knows. The regular Bushmills. I'll also give it a seven and a half on the nose. Yeah. And then as I got into the palette there's some soft bits of vanilla and honey that keep coming through. For me it was really a lot of malt on the palate and then at the back end I got some some like nutty toffee.

38:20 Notes going on like almost like a caramelized. The I don't know. Almond there peanut that was interesting. It's falling off. A little bit from the nose for me. I'll give it a 7 out of 10 on the palate, man, it was so weird. I took a sip as you were talking and as each thing like each Revelation that came out of your mouth happened on my palette as you were saying, it was very weird. It was like you are eating my experience. Ha ha ha. Yeah, it's really not means we've we've made it as whiskey faced. We have just like meshed into one Consciousness now. Alright, so yeah, it's really multi on the palate. There's Lot of pre cleanest to it. Like it's got some heat for an 80 proof whiskey. It has the like, the bitter smokiness of a peated scotch without the actual peat smoke.

39:14 I don't know how to explain that from. Like, when it turns bitter, it turns bitter in the way that like a really PD Scotch does and then I swallowed and you said, like oh it's got like a nuttiness and I'm like, no, I'm not getting that. And then you said oh it's like caramelized and I right when you said that I was breathing out and I breathe I doubt this note of like caramel corn and it just Han there is just this little bit of bourbon character hanging around the back end of this. It's really really weird. I don't know where it's coming from. It doesn't make sense but it's definitely there. I like this. I think it's good. I think it's coming from the whiskey Bob, I think so too. It was either the whiskey or the glass. You know, I'll give this a seven out of ten.

39:56 It's really good but it's still not blowing me away. Yeah and for me when I got to the finish it slightly sours on the very back end the maltiness just gets to be too much. It does leave a really nice kind of faint honey aftertaste that last for a while that I do enjoy. But once again it's kind of coming down a little bit more. I'm going to give it a six and a half on the Finish. Yeah the second sip I actually got that sourness right at the tip of my tongue not on the back end. When I went to swallow there was almost like a No, not a butter cookie, but like maybe a graham cracker kind of thing going on. For me, it's interesting. I don't know that I would call it complex, but there are many different notes that are coming out on this whiskey, that I didn't expect to be there.

40:46 So it's certainly surprising. The Finish is pretty nice. And, you know, again, we will get to the price point in a minute here, but I think if I'm being frank, both the red bush and the Black Bush are better than regular Bushmills. And I almost don't understand why they're continuing to sell the regular Bush knows at this point. Like these are both markedly better than the white label in my opinion. Yeah, that's interesting. I think that this one for me falls off a little bit. I honestly don't remember the white label right now enough to make a comparison. I think the balance. Did you give a finished score? I'll give it a 7, okay? I think the balance for me is a 7.

41:27 There's nothing crazy about this. Nothing like super complex but there's enough going on flavor-wise that a I'm like okay I see what you're doing here, Bushmills. Yeah, I'll give it a seven and a half on balance. This is this is above average and I'm always going to be a little bit influenced by the price but you know, for what this costs, I mean, it's essentially the same as what you're going to be paying for the white label, and it is much more complex than that. And so I really do feel like I need to reward it a little bit, so I'm going to give it. It a seven and a half and that brings us to value. Now, I do not have the price pulled up here on my screen. Brad. Do you, do you know what it is in the state of Ohio?

42:09 Bob it is $32.99. Is it really? It sure is that makes no sense because the red Bush was $22. Yep, what the hell? Maybe the bourbon barrels are a lot cheaper, I guess, man. Like all right. Well that changes things a little bit. I thought this was going to be like almost a third less than it actually costs and I need to sit with this for a second. So you give your values core because I need to recalculate here. I give it a six like I think this is a decent Irish offering but it didn't really impress me enough in any one area to make it like stand out to give it like a seven or an eight. I think that with the Bushmills redbush you're really getting an incredible value whereas this I'm like yeah. Like I would go by The Sexton any day of the week, over this. Yeah.

43:03 And that's, that was, that's kind of the comparison here, right? Like, you're getting into Sexton levels of pricing. Now, I will say you and I both really like the softness and the sweetness of Irish whiskey. And that's what the sexton offers. This is like this is like a scotch, this drinks more like a scotch and it brings a spiciness and like a dark complexion to Irish whiskey that we don't typically get. And so I really Actually appreciate that and I would sing its Praises a lot more if it wasn't $32. So I'm also going to give it a 6 on value which brings me out to a 35 out of 50. Now 35 is where we typically start recommending hey you should give this a try at the bar where you should go out and get a bottle of it.

43:46 I actually think that I like this a little bit higher than my 35 would indicate but that value score does take it down just to Peg. If you're if you're looking to get into Irish Whiskey's and you asked me like hey what are five or ten Irish whiskeys I I have on my bar. I actually think I might point you to this, in addition to the red bush because it is so far out of the Wheelhouse of what Irish whiskey typically tastes like, but I'm landing in a 35, mm Brad. I'd be interested to hear. What's your score, and do you recommend? I'm at a 34 out of 50, so very, very close to you. Robert. I think I don't recommend. I think that when you have the red bush, right next to it for $10 cheaper, /. It's just so easy to recommend that over this and if you really enjoy that then sure go try the Black Bush. But for me on the condition of like this is the one whiskey I'm recommending.

44:41 I don't think I'm going to recommend it. Bob. Yeah, it's really hard to recommend because I don't know that I'd recommend you buying a bottle at 32, but a poor at the bar is going to be like seven or eight and that's, you know, a quarter of the price of the bottle. So I'm not also not going to recommend you trying it at the bar. The problem is that I think it's a good whiskey. But split it with a friend. They will, they put it in such a price point that it becomes cost prohibitive even though it's not an expensive whiskey. Because I think that the flavor profile is close enough to being Scotch that you could sub in a cheap scotch and basically approximate what this tastes like. And it's like, I really want to reward the fact that it's like, wow, you captured some Scotch Enos here in an Irish whiskey, but I don't want to make people go. Pay $32 to do that.

45:28 So we're coming out to a 34 and a half out of 50 or 60 90 out of 100 nice. Yeah. Yeah. I think we're both gonna not recommend but for me with the caveat that I actually think this is a really good whiskey. So like if you see it at somebody's house and they want to give you a poor. Absolutely like, it's not, it's not bad and I would call it good. I just think there's better things. You could spend your $32 on. I don't know if there's very many Whiskey's if I was in that. That hypothetical situation where I'd be like. Now I don't want that. No, thank you.

46:09 If they offered me, committed Canadian Mist. I would probably say no, I probably join you on that front. All right man. What do you say? We get back into talking about Lawrence of Arabia dude. I'm just excited for two facts in the false and me too. All right, everybody that was Bushmills. Black Bush a whiskey that we were. Yeah. Now I'm not mad like I really enjoyed this but they think I'm a little softer than you. Yeah price point they priced people out of this. Hmm. What the hell Bushmills?

46:50 Yeah, we know what? We're not priced out of Bob the absolutely free. Segment of our podcast called two facts of a falsehood to facts in a falsehood. I don't know what my record is anymore. Fleet as well. Yes. Point in the season, where you just, you just forget what we also, haven't recorded a regular episode in weeks. Like we got a little bit of head and then we took a couple weeks off, we did some bonus episodes. I have no idea. I'm above 500 and that's all that matters to me. I was in say, I think this is movie like 21 or 22 in the sea. Susan. Yeah. So I'm guessing that you're like 12 and 10 13 and nine something in that area. Sure.

47:34 Yeah, sure. I do know that you lost last week. All right. Well you know that's gloss over that fact. So this is the part of the podcast where Brad tries to stump Me by presenting three items. All of them presented as fact, one of, which is a complete falsehood that he has made up. So Brad, without further Ado, hit me with your two facts. Falsehood fax number one. The first time, Peter O'Toole tried riding a camel. He had shaved so badly that blood was oozing from his jeans. He finally mastered his camel riding technique by adding a layer of sponge rubber underneath the saddle. Maybe he should have not tried riding the camel in jeans, feel like I could have told you that you're not wrong fact.

48:20 Number 2, Peter O'Toole being from balmy. Island was unused to the climate of the desert and passed out from heat exhaustion three times throughout the production of the film which left the famously cantankerous lean in a little bit of a fury here. We're going to say he passed out from quote, heat exhaustion, and not him. Copious amounts of scotch fact. Number three, Bob in the actual Battle of Aqaba TE Lawrence was nearly killed when his camel through him. After he accidentally shot it in the head during filming of that. Seen Peter O'Toole was nearly killed, a gunner rocket used to Signal action in. The first Aqaba, take fired prematurely and O'Toole was thrown by his camic by his panicked camel in front of the charging horses. Wow.

49:11 That sounds so involved that I if you did make it up, I respect it. So I'm going to be, I'm gonna say that's a truth, just because I want it to be a truth. Number two, is he passed out a lot at number one, was he chafed in his genes? And those those are both plausible. That's what I should have said. Fax number 1, Peter O'Toole chafed in his genes fact. Number two, he passed out fact. Number three He almost died. I'm going to say one is the falsehood. That he was chafing. Well yeah, I mean it's very plausible, but two is also very plausible and I just feel like it's the lamest one. So, I want to say that's true, but yeah, I'm just saying ones. The falsehood one is not the falsehood Robert. Okay.

50:02 He was actually, he actually did add a layer of sponge rubber under the saddle, completely of his own Innovation, nice and the actual Bedouin tribesmen, who were acting as extras nicknamed him. A bow is Vanessa, which means father of the sponge because they all started doing the exact same thing. That's awesome. Yeah, tell me that's not the best. That's really cool. What was the falsehood that he was unused to the climate of the desert and passed out from heat exhaustion, right? You wrote Such a lame, falsehood, man. I wanted to give you more credit than that. Thanks, dude. When his camel threw him in the Battle of Aqaba, seen the Campbell was Rained and it actually after panicking it, stood over top of him to protect him from the charging horses.

50:54 So they didn't trampled him to death. Wow. Good for that Camel. Yeah, good for it, huh? Well, I lost again today because you gay, I give you more credit than you deserve. Thanks man. I appreciate that. Yeah, thank you Brad. Always a pleasure doing business with you. All right, I want to talk about how I watch this movie because I We initially were going to record a few days ago and I was trying to get it in and I found myself having to watch it with my daughter who is almost two years old. And she I literally gave her a video game controller, which she has seen me use from time to time. And I said, do you want to play a camel game? And she said, uh-huh.

51:40 And I said, all right, you can sit on my lap and we're going to play a camel game and I gave her a controller. And we watch Lawrence of Arabia and she is now obsessed and she just comes up to me and goes come game. And she wants to watch Lawrence of Arabia to play the Camel game. I just picture her like waiting with bated breath through all the scenes with, like, Claude Rains in the palace, like, where there's no animals until he finally gets that sweet camel action again. Yep. No, she literally like I was getting changed for work this morning and Haley was watching her, and I just hear Sadie's like yelling it, and she runs out and she had found the controller in from my desk and ran all the way to the back and was like, looking me in the eyes with the Dead Set earnestness that only a two-year-old can muster asking me to play the Camel game so it did make the movie watching experience a little more enjoyable.

52:42 There you go. All right, I think there's three things I want to make sure we touch. Chon before we get out of here today, the first of, which is we got to talk about Peter, O'Toole who I think. Gives a really good performance and it's ultimately one of the most famous performances in cinema history. Just because of what this movie is, they put the title card on, you know, in the opening credits says, an introducing Peter O'Toole. It was not technically his first movie, but it was like his first big movie enough that anyone would have heard of him. And so, you know, to be doing a movie this big this early in your career, Is truly a feat and he does a fantastic job like this a hard character to play and the fact that you never get to know Lawrence means that you have to play a ton of different emotions or no emotion at all in a way that makes somebody not be completely bored and turn it off or walk out of the theater. And I think he's to be commended for that and I can't think of anybody else that I would rather have seen play this character and at the same time I wonder if I'm taking my annoyances with the character of Lawrence out on Peter. O'Toole a little bit but it's really hard to separate the performance from the character or, you know, the lack of characterization their honestly Bob I think when it comes to Peter O'Toole You know, I without actually saying the name.

54:09 I kind of mentioned Gone With the Wind earlier by saying, this is now the longest movie we've watched I think that if there's a comparison to Gone With the Wind here, it's that I, I mentioned when we, when we recorded that episode, that it felt like the very first like the grandfather of soap, operas the gone with the winded, and I feel like in this film Peter, O'Toole kind of feels like a soap opera actor for me. And I don't mean that in the sense of like bad acting, but I mean, it in that he is just he over plays so many of his emotions throughout the film, and they seem to come out of nowhere. And, and that's the frustrating part about this performance for me, that I'm not even sure if it's his fault, or if it's lean. Ting him or if it's what the script was asking him to do, but it feels like out of nowhere.

55:08 He'll he'll become wildly excited and crazy and and just have these these wonky ideas where he's like, yeah, we're just going to sneak into this Turkish held town and I'm going to get captured and it's going to go great and you're like, wait, I don't think it's going to go great. And then it doesn't go great. And then he wants to quit and then he gets told that he's a he's a god. He's suddenly wildly excited and happy again, and but that's like a script, that's a script issue, you know what I mean? That's not Peter, O'Toole necessarily or are you saying that? But way he plays that but it's the way he plays it as well like. And like I said, I think it's the script asking him to do that, but, I don't know for me. It just felt like he fasts elated between so many different emotions throughout the film that it felt soap. Opera e to me, you know, Hmm, yeah man, I and I think that's kind of where I'm at with this portrayal. It's a great performance and at the same time it's like, I, I have thoughts or I have conflicted feelings about it and it's unresolved like, much of this movie. It's unresolved.

56:21 And I think maybe we should segue into the other couple things that we need to hit on one of which is David lean, the director. This is, this is the Pinnacle of his career but I mean, you know it's rated as Number five, greatest film of all time and he never quite reaches these Heights again. And we're going to kind of slowly walk backwards in his career from here. I just want to spend a couple minutes talking about like, the technical amazingness of this movie because, you know, the scene, where Omar Sharif enters the movie, where it's just like a, like a two-minute silent sequence of you watching. Somebody emerge from the heat rising off of the sand in the distance. Like they had to make a special lens for this camera to shoot that far away, and it's a lens that's never been used before or since in Motion Picture history and it captured one of the most famous sequences ever and it's just kind of like, this is what David lean was doing with this movie. He made a movie that no one else before or since could have made or has even tried to make and there's been so much ink spilt on this topic that we're not going to say anything new or About like new or noteworthy about it, but you can't talk about this movie without talking about what an achievement. It is technically.

57:41 Yeah, I think that for me, I was reading Ebert's review of this that he wrote In 1989 after they re-released it. And I'm just going to read what he says. He says, I've noticed that when people remember Lawrence of Arabia, they don't talk about the details of the plot. They get a certain look in their eyes, as if they During the whole experience. And I've never been able to quite put it into words. And then and then he goes on to say, it is spectacle and experience, and it's ideas are about things. You can feel not things, you can say. And I think that that's like that's the key. You know, he goes on and fight and says at the end of this paragraph much of its appeal is based on the fact that it does not contain a complex story with a lot of dialogue. We remember the quiet empty passages the Across the desert, the intricate lines, traced by the wind and the sand. And I think that's like the perfect understanding of this movie.

58:41 I, for me, there's so many moments where he has these vast, you know, spectacular shots of the desert. And when I think he does really well is that he gives you a sense of the scale by giving you multiple points of reference. Like there's a small little rocky outcropping in the The foreground and then you have a vast desert plain and you know tiny specks that are Lawrence and Omar Sharif on camels going across the desert and then there's a mountain immediately behind them and then another Mountain Wave off in the distance behind that. And it's like having these four to five different levels of what's the word I'm looking for?

59:30 Yeah. Like not like I was gonna say Vista, but yeah, I know what you mean. Yeah. You know, not like a vanishing point. Yeah. Like a horizon. I don't know. Yeah. There's just there's so many different layers to it. That without, even realizing it. The viewer gets a sense of just how massive the Obstacle of the desert is, and it's just a beautiful film Bob. Oh yeah, I mean, like, again, like we're not gonna get into talking about what 70? Mm is compared to 35 mm or whatever. But like, It's just an unbelievably pristine looking movie after they restored it like it is one of the most beautiful films I've ever seen, not just because of the composition of each and every shot and it leads me to my last point because you skipped a couple sentences in the middle of that paragraph.

1:00:21 And Ebert talks about how Lawrence of Arabia on its surface. It seems like a traditional movie movie, kind of like Bridge. On the River Kwai and we're going to talk about Bridge on the River Kwai next week. But I think it's so interesting to hold these two movies up next to each other, and it gets to this point that has been at the Forefront of stupid conversation for 3 years. Now, on the internet about Marvel movies and Martin Scorsese and how Scorsese said that he doesn't consider Marvel films to be Cinema. He says, you know, they have their place but they're not Cinema, and people have been struggling to defined.

1:01:03 What's the difference between film and Cinema or movies? And should we even draw that distinction. But Ebert kind of says it like this. When he's comparing this movie to Bridge on the River Kwai he says, although it seems to be a traditional narrative film like Bridge on the River Kwai which lean made right before it. It actually has more in common with such a sin. We visual epics as Kubrick's 2001 A Space Odyssey. And I read that, and I was like, I get it. Now, I get my problems with this movie, because 2001 is a very difficult, nut to crack. And it is an impenetrable movie.

1:01:45 And a lot of people think it's the best movie ever made. And I have very well-documented struggles with that movie. But I think that this movie toes, the line between being a traditional entertainment and Being a Gone With the Wind Hollywood, kind of Epic and also being like this cinematic force, that 2001 is where it's not just about the storytelling. It's not just about having a good time and being entertained but it's like this is something that could only happen in this specific medium. You couldn't take Lawrence of Arabia and chop it up into four episodes and make it a Disney Plus show it wouldn't work the same.

1:02:27 Way, like, there's something about the fact that this is Cinematic, that makes it what it is whether or not I actually enjoy it as much as I enjoy Bridge on the River. Kwai spoiler alert. I don't I like that movie better than this but there's I understand why people rank this as the fifth highest movie ever right up there with 2001 because there is something about it. That is just mysterious and it has this pull All to it. And it's the pull that you only get with that thing. That Scorsese calls Cinema and I guess I just really want to hear your thoughts on that as we kind of move into final scores. Do you understand what I'm saying? I feel like, I don't have language for this thing. I'm trying to describe, but I'm starting to understand what that means.

1:03:18 When people make that distinction. I think that it's in essence. It's a movie that justifies the existence. Of film as a medium that like you couldn't, you couldn't have a book, create the vistas for you that you get in Lawrence of Arabia. You couldn't have a radio broadcast that would would describe the Majesty of what you see in Lawrence of Arabia that there's no other way to communicate it other than through film. And I think you can say that about 2001 A Space Odyssey, you can say it about Lawrence of Arabia. And it's something you can't really say about modern epic films.

1:04:02 Like and so I think that what Lawrence of Arabia does really is that it's a movie that justifies movies being an existence in the first place. And you understand why critics of films Rave over films like this. Do you Rave over films like this. I liked it a lot Bob. Yeah, I really enjoyed it. I don't think I would put it as like a top five all-time for me, but honestly, in the end I mean we have to do. Let's make it a double before we get the final score. Yeah. Okay. And I think with let's make it a double, you know, Bob, I don't know if you put any time with thought in it, I put hours and hours thinking about it, right? Obviously.

1:04:52 In addition, to the four hours you spent watching the film, Exactly. Yeah, for sure I think for me I'm going to point a out, another older film. I think you should pair this with the treasure of the Sierra Madre. Hmm nice. I think that that one has a little bit more Dynamic relationships going on but it has a similar sense of view and respect for terrain and what you know where they are filming that you have here in Lawrence. So yeah, I think I'm gonna pair it with Treasure of the Sierra Madre. I think I'm going to take the easy way out and go with with Ebert and say 2001, because there's a lot of thematic similarities. There's you know the the Solitude and isolation of space. There's the unknowability of whatever the hell is going on in 2001 with the unknowability of TE Lawrence. This is a much more conventional movie than 2001 but I love that Ebert says that it's essentially a visual thing. And whatever is happening at the end of 2001. It is a, it is a visual and to some extent auditory experience that you only get in the medium of Cinema. And this is, this is like that.

1:06:08 I mean, you know, I watched it on the big screen I could in my house Brad and like that it pales in comparison to what it would be like to watch this in a movie theater. Like, there's just some sort of like, weird, alchemy that happens with movies like 2001, like, Lawrence of Arabia. Via that draws you in. That makes you question in a way that only movies can do and so I think 2001's a really good comparison. Well, that gets us into our final scores. Bob, I think I'm going to give this movie an eight and a half out of ten. Oh, I don't take, I, yeah, I really enjoy the film. I think that the, the struggles with how long it is and Lawrence's character, not necessarily with Peter O'Toole's. Just with the character of TE Lawrence, I really struggled with the decisions, he makes and the wild shifts in personality that you get and that kind of like drew me back a little bit. But man, if it's not one of the most, beautiful movies I've seen, I'm just going to say up front that I am. I just finished watching Bridge on the River Kwai and Bridge on the River Kwai is like this interesting. Middle ground between Lawrence of Arabia and like the Great Escape where it's at.

1:07:25 It's a movie movie made by a really artistic eye. And so, again, it kind of straddles both like it straddles that line. I'm gonna give Bridge on the River Kwai and equivalent or higher score than I give Lawrence of Arabia but I also completely understand why. You know, when when the British film institute's Sight and Sound pull comes out at the end of this month, Lawrence of Arabia is probably going to be in the top 10 movies of all time and Bridge on the River, Kwai is going to be nowhere to be seen on that. Just like, I get it. I get why people worship this movie but at the end of the day, like, there's only so much, you can praise a movie and then say like, hey, I just didn't enjoy it as much as I enjoy.

1:08:06 Other movies that are meant to be enjoyed and so I'm going to give it a 9 out of 10 and that that makes our final score way lower than I expected to see next to the name Lawrence of Arabia. But that brings us out to an 8 point 7 5 out of 10. If you've seen Lawrence of Arabia, we'd love to know what you think. Are you like, do you think we're crazy? Is it one of the five best movies ever made? Is it overrated? You know, we can start those hot takes. If you'd like to, you can let us know what you think of the movie by reaching out to us on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, or Tick-Tock at film whiskey. Or you can reach out to us on Discord. We are on there every single day, talking to you guys, the, the fans of the filament, whiskey podcast.

1:08:48 So if you want to have a conversation, With us, in real time you can find a link to our Discord at the end of every single one of our show notes, we will be back next week to talk about this movie. That I've been teasing this whole week, The Bridge on the River Kwai. But until then I'm Bob book, I'm Reggie and we'll see you next time.