Iron Man / George Dickel No. 12

0:01 In 2008 director Jon Favreau and star Robert Downey jr. Launched a Cinematic Universe? Unlike anything. The film industry had ever seen in 2019. We go all Chris Stapleton with our first Tennessee, whiskey. The film is Iron Man. The whiskey is George Dickel. Number 12 and we'll review them both. This is the film and whiskey podcast. Welcome to the film and whiskey podcast, where each week, we review a classic movie and a glass of whiskey.

0:44 I'm Bob book, I'm Brad G and this week we are looking at the 2008, film Iron Man, Brad. What do you think about when I say the words? Iron Man, the moment you say that, I just hear that long Riff on the guitar, that like droning intro, yeah, Black Sabbath word. Yeah, yeah, yeah, pretty much that we're gonna get copyright claimed just on that. Yeah, I mean, when I think about Iron Man, now, it's hard to divorce this movie from like the 20 other, Marvel Cinematic Universe movies. And so, when we sat down to watch this again, I had to kind of shut off everything that I knew about the Avengers about, you know, Infinity war and Thanos now. And try to put myself in the place that I was in in 2008 when this was kind of Marvel's big test for whether or not this idea of a Cinematic Universe was going to work. Yeah.

1:33 And the funny thing for me was that I for the longest time until I watch this again. I genuinely didn't even think about this as the start of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. Because in my head, I don't know if I'd like conflated the to, but I thought that the Incredible Hulk came out first so interesting and I was, I was interested because I looked back and I was like, man, I am sure that I saw Incredible Hulk in theaters way before I saw Iron Man in theaters but Realize that they came out within one month of each other within a month really within a month. I think Iron Man came out in June and Incredible Hulk came out in July. Wow, that's crazy. So I probably did see the whole Furs. Sure. But so in my mind that was always the first one that didn't do so well. Yeah.

2:17 And then Iron Man was the one that really set the bar for the rest of the universe. See and I always have trouble like divorcing it from The Dark Knight because it came out the same summer as the dark nights. He had Marvel and DC go Dad each other. Yeah and I mean it It's never going to be fair to compare anything to the dark night because it's just, it's so rooted in reality and the way Nolan constructs that movie, you know, I watch The Dark Knight. And then I watched Iron Man later, right? And I was always like, okay, The Dark Knight is superior and I still think that. Yeah but what Marvel was trying to do is something completely different and it's not quite fair to compare it. Yeah the dark night so Brad why don't we explain the plot of Iron Man? Well see the funny thing is I feel like every human being in, America has seen it sure. So I don't Like I need to do this, right? But we should forget the service that we are, right? Yes.

3:07 Yeah. So Iron Man, as a film is about a rich Playboy billionaire, he's the heir to the Stark fortune and over the Starks, the Starks Like A Game of Thrones. Yes. Okay. So rich Playboy, billionaire are to the Stark Empire. The Starks were weapons manufacturers throughout World War 2, and Beyond, and the the Are you learn about Tony who he truly is a genius? But he is captured while doing a weapons presentation in the Middle East. And they are the terrorists are trying to force him, to build a weapon of mass destruction. And instead of doing that, he creates this Arc Reactor technology, he puts it into his heart and he creates the Iron Man suit which is a personal suit of body armor that you use to kill.

3:56 Lots and lots and lots of people ship. So he escapes they take him back here. Sides that he no longer wants to make weapons, that his company shouldn't make weapons anymore that they should help people. So, Obadiah Stane is the CEO of the company. It's been Tony's, he's been Tony's friends since they were, you know, Tony was a child and he turns into the main villain who is trying to keep the company. Not only making money off selling weapons to the US and their allies but also to their enemy, right? He's dealing on both sides of the table. I think it's a good summary so that yeah and action. And Sue's, right and action and Sue's, how many times do you think that you've seen Iron, Man? Yeah. So, I've probably seen the film five, six, maybe seven times. Yeah, I'm probably about the same as you. This is one of my favorite.

4:44 Marvel Cinematic Universe movies. I think it still holds up for sure. I to get my Marvel take early on out of the way. I struggle with the Marvel Cinematic Universe. I really loved it at the start. I loved Captain America and Iron Man. I loved the First Avenger Where's Thor? And after a while it felt like they were all the same movie done over and oh yeah it's definitely a formula now and I think I hit my point of frustration when Ant-Man came out because that's super hero that I do not care about at all and, you know, you had Ant-Man and he had like, doctor strange and I felt like they really started to get repetitive and with the even more recent ones, like Captain Marvel or Ant-Man the WASP.

5:27 It's like you have to see this to get crucial information about What's going to happen in end gain, right? And I don't necessarily want to watch a two-hour movie just to get info on endgame, right? You know what I mean? Yeah, for sure. I so I actually kind of stopped watching the franchise after winter soldier. I was just still I looked it up the other day. That's still 10. Movies it. Yeah. It's only like half of them a feast. I know it's only half but it like that's still 10 movies there and I felt like I could got a good glimpse of it. I've seen and since since winter soldier I've seen Ragnarok and Guardians of the Galaxy one and two. Okay, so I've seen a few of the post Winter Soldier movies but I just every time I think about getting back into them and you know, I have some friends who are huge fan, boys of the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

6:14 I just there's something in me, that's kind of, like, do I really want to do this? Yeah. And I just have no desire to get back into it, but watching Iron Man. Again, I was reminded of why I love the franchise as much as I did, sure. And it was difficult because Iron Man set the formula for the rest of the franchise. Young with the Incredible Hulk and Iron Man coming out within a month of each other. They're two very different movies. Have you seen the Incredible Hulk? That Norton one. I feel like I have but I don't remember anything from it. Yeah, so I actually watched it again recently probably a month or two before I watched Iron Man, and it really provided a good contrast because the film Direction was different, like the way they filmed it. The sound that just all of it was different, it was still a superhero movie but it just wasn't It very good.

7:00 Yeah. Like I'd probably give it about a 4/5, okay, yeah. Decent move. It was okay, right? But when you compared to Iron Man, Iron Man's a really good movie. Yeah, and the thing with Iron Man is kind of weird because Marvel was banking on this being successful. So it really did have a lot of weight that it had to carry, but it's fun to go back and watch a superhero movie where the stakes are kind of lower, right? Where it didn't seem. Like the end of the universe was about to happen. And the weight of 20 movies, wasn't being born by it? Yeah, wait. Like Infinity War does. It was nice to just be able to watch an origin story where there's one big bad that he has to defeat. And that's all there is to it. Mean, it really is this sort of transitional movie between like, the Sam Raimi, Spider-Man movies, and what you get later in them.

7:44 See you? Yeah, I'm glad you brought up Sam, Raimi Spider-Man, because his first Spider-Man, which I believe came out in 2000 or 2001. I think it's up to ya 02. So, those movies were like my tune in to the superhero Universe. Okay. And I think that they still stand up. Oh, there's still want him to be Spider-Man. 2 is the best superhero movie of all time. Yeah. And I don't know if I'd go that far. I like one a little bit better. I did too, but those movies I think introduced the new era, you know, the 21st century into superheroes. Yeah. In a way that we had never seen before. Sure. And so, I and Iron Man. If Spider-Man was the start of this, Era. I think Iron Man kicked off the Golden Age. Yeah, absolutely era.

8:34 Which truly has been the Marvel Cinematic Universe. So let's talk a little bit about the development of this movie so Iron Man had actually been a character that had been in development for quite a while. And the funny thing is we're going to loop back around to some stuff. We talked about in Prior episodes. So way back in 1996. Nicolas Cage. Oh was attached to play Iron Man. Which is crazy because he was also Also around that time he was doing tests for Superman with. I think Joel Schumacher which I don't want to see either one of them. Have you ever seen the photos of him as Superman? No. So he had like rode his hair long and stuff for Con Air and he was like doing screen test for Superman with like a mullet. It's the funniest thing I've ever seen.

9:16 So he's doing screen test for superman but he's also in talks to develop Iron, Man. Obviously, it fell through, but we had just talked about him. Thanks, buddy. Right. It fell through a fully, we just talked about him last month because they had been at some Developing a Howard Hughes biopic right for Nicolas Cage. So he was all over the place in the mid-90s. Yeah, later on. Tom Cruise. Actually commissioned a script to be written, so that he could play Iron Man. And one of the co-authors of the script none, other than Stanley, really. And that movie did not get made either, huh? The funny thing is, I feel like those are Tom Cruise movie. He wouldn't have actually had like, the boosters that he finds a rabid, Horseman riding everywhere. I still would have been okay with that.

9:57 Oh, what a person. ENT. So, at this point though, Jon Favreau has kind of kicked off his directing career, he's had a couple of big hits. He's actually just coming off of. I think else was like the last movie that he had made at this point and so a little fun fact. If you don't know who John Favreau is, he's The Bodyguard in. I'm happy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. He gave himself a role in the movie, but people knew him from the 90s when he was at was the movie called swingers. Yes. So, I mean, he had been a pretty popular actor and then transitioned into directing, he was given kind of carte blanche. Free range to cast this movie, then he finally decided to give it to Robert Downey jr. Which was a very controversial Choice when you're choosing to kick off your massive 20-year.

10:39 Yeah, movie plan with Robert Downey jr. Who at that point had been in u.s. Marshals. Well, Robert Downey jr. Had been around since the 80s but he had this really really deep severe drug addiction, right and taken him, kind of way out of Hollywood. And so this was his really his big comeback. He had made a movie, a few years earlier called kiss Kiss. Bang, Bang. Okay, that Jon Favreau. I really enjoyed and based on that, he offered him an audition, but Robert Downey jr. Was not the only person that was in talks to play Iron, Man. Favreau had originally talked to Hugh Jackman about it really but you Jackman had already man. He thought, you know, I'm already been established as Wolverine. Would be weird for me to be another superhero. Yeah, so he was considering Clive Owen for the role, huh?

11:21 And also Sam Rockwell, who went on to appear in Iron Man, 2. I don't know. I love Sam Rockwell. Yeah, I can't see him. Iron Man, not at all. He invited Robert Downey jr. To audition the same day that Timothy Olyphant had come in to audition which I think would have been an interesting Iron Man. I don't know if I know enough about Timothy Timothy. Olyphant what has he been in? He's in the office. Yeah he plays Danny cordray the yeah yeah yeah yeah. I don't know if I would have bought him as Iron Man though. Yeah, he the thing about Robert Downey jr. And I'm realizing that I've said this a few times in previous podcasts. And the more I say it the more I realize I value it, he comes across.

12:02 So genuine. Hmm, you know what I mean? Like like like genuinely smug and genuinely arrogant, right? But he really embodies that the genuine smugness and genuine arrogance leads you to believe him when he has a change of heart. Absolutely. And I think that's and that's what I mean when he gives a genuine performance that he truly embodies the character. Like I don't think that I'm looking at Robert Downey jr. Playing I, you know, Tony Stark I'm just watching Stony star and it's really hard to tow that line of being a Playboy and an arrogant person and not lose the audience. Yeah like he's clearly an arrogant person and yet we're still Charmed by him, you know? And I think the interesting part about that you brought up Batman earlier in the dark night we get a few images of Bruce Wayne, the Playboy billionaire.

12:52 And now that I think about it, man, I feel like Robert Downey jr. Pulls off the Playboy part better than When Christian Bale Christian Bale might pull off the superhero part, right? A little bit better than Robert Downey jr. Yeah, definitely. So let's talk about the rest of the cast, though, is there anybody that sticks out to you the performance that you want to talk about? I liked going to Paltrow I so much dude. And and the funny thing is watching her character, develop over the three Iron Man movies and into the Avengers movies. They don't give her much to do here. Yeah. And she's still in my opinion she's like stealing the show and some of these scenes. Yeah they give her one of the my favorite. Lines in the whole movie. Two, taking out the trash. Yes, the trash line is so good.

13:35 I love Gwyneth Paltrow. And this movie, you've got Terrance Howard playing Roadie who then becomes War Machine writing, but future movies. Terrence Howard, doesn't come. It does not come back. Don Cheadle actually replaces him in the second movie and it's like a big Hollywood sort of hush-hush rumor about. Why Terrence Howard got moved out, okay? There's conflicting arguments about apparently he was the highest paid person on this movie. Really. He was just coming off an Oscar nomination, for Hustle, & Flow, he was really in demand, and they said that after the success of the first movie, his story is Marvel came to him for the sequel and kind of low-balled him and said, take it or leave it. This movie is going to be successful without you, right? And he left it and it has turned out to not be the wisest decision for his career.

14:18 Yeah. Because Don cheadle's now been in like what? Five or six MCU movies. Yeah. And actually for being honest I'd like Don cheadle's portrayal of her so much better. Yeah. Terrence Howard does not work for me in this movie. Is probably one of the few performances in this movie. That felt kind of method to yeah. Like he just he was there, right? But his inflection the way he talked and the way he interacted with Tony, there's no chemistry. I felt like between him and Robert. Not at all. There was like no Rapport there and they're really needed to be for you to care about war machine at all in the next film. So I want to talk for a second about Jeff Bridges. Yeah, because I love Jeff Bridges. He's a fantastic actor. Huh? I don't know how I feel about him in this movie. I loved him in this.

14:59 Movie. He I mean he's like chewing scenery left and right, like they're giving him free range to just be like the biggest villain. Yeah. And steal the show. Yeah, but like, he's the bad guy from the first time you see him like at the beginning of the movie when they first show him at that reception right? I'm like oh that's the bad guy really this bald guy giving like a weird glare at the stare at the stage. He's the bad guy. Oh I didn't pick up on that at all. Really watch it. No, huh. I think at some point I think it's after he Tapes. I'm trying to think of when it is in the movie. But at some point, I remember thinking I'm like, oh, he's the one, like, blocking him out of the, the stead, the CEO meteor.

15:40 Yeah, the board meeting. Yeah, and all that, and I was like, oh, he's the one doing all this and it was before they, you know, revealed it. Yeah. But it wasn't right away. See, I really liked what he was doing with the character up until that final scene and the last one third of the movie or whatever. When they find out. Yeah. When he gets in that ironmonger suit. Yeah, I just The movie falls apart for me there and you get like the Jeff Bridges doing a voice thing. We're oh damn it sounds like he's trying to sound big and bad. Yeah, good broker Tony it just none of that works for me. See that's funny because that totally worked for me. No, yeah, I was totally fine with that because in my mind that wasn't Jeff Bridges talking that was him using like almost like a PA system to project his voice outside. The, the machine, the sure suit that makes sense. So to me, and what I mean, Man's voice sounds normal. He just talks like Tony Stark.

16:34 It has a little bit of a mechanical. Yeah, I just it was the like good perk your Toady. You know what, he sounds like though. He sounds like the Kool-Aid, man. Like he sounds like he should be busting through a wall. I can see her tone. He's like, oh no, no, no. What am I gonna do? Oh no. Oh yeah. Actor Tony. I want to ask a question about Jeff Bridges character. Okay, so his name is Obadiah Stane, which first of all, Best name of all time. I was literally going to say that that is a good villain named now, what exactly and pun intended, I guess, but what is his endgame? Like, what what's obadiah's plan? Because his whole, his whole character thing as that he wants a controlling share in the company, right?

17:18 And so he pays terrorists to kill Tony, right? They don't do it. They fail. So he goes and kills all the terrorists, right, right. Then he comes back to the US. He files an injunction against Tony To gain control of the company, but we never actually really find out if the injunction went through. That's true. And so, he just decides, I'm going to kill Tony and but like why? Because like if you're that powerful, and if you're able to hire a terrorist cell to kill someone, right? Like you can't get an assassin in the u.s. to do it. You have to go out yourself and very publicly fight with him. What is Sasson from what movie would you want to kill, Tony Stark? I'm just saying like if he can somehow keep quiet that he has an F, Gani Terror cell working for him. Why would you decide as the CEO of this company to go out in public and she like, shoot him to death? What kind of like does he just think he's gonna get away with it and then get control of the company and still be rich and not in jail?

18:14 Bob, maybe. Maybe he just thinks that. That new technology is so lucrative. Yeah, he'll just get away with it. Well, I mean, and he says that as much as I say that facetiously a little bit. I think that it's true. Absolute power corrupts. Absolutely. And when you look at obadiah's character Arc, I think he kind of reached Is a point of no return. When he decides you know what Tony has given me his last golden egg. Hmm, let's kill him off this technology is going to change the world and I'm going to become fantastically Rich over it. Yeah not that he isn't already and so I think that that's the point where he just. Yeah. He turns full villain mode. Yeah. And he doesn't care what the cost is to get what he wants.

18:56 I get that. We don't cross it. This is how we do business. If we double dealing on the table, are we let's take a picture. Come on, thank you time. Do you think I was the one who filed the injunction against you? Tell me where I can protect you. It just seemed like he made some really huge jumps in logic and I know that again I know it's a comic book movie. Yeah.

19:44 But I think the bar has been raised so much on comic book movies in the last 10 years that we have to kind of make these critiques a little bit. Yeah you know like I really do think the last half of this movie just kind of falls off. The first hour of this movie is spectacular. The fact that they decided to start this movie with 45 minutes in an Afghani cave, right? Blows my mind, right? Like you're talking about a big-budget superhero movie. That is essentially just, you know, a war on terror film for its first third. I'm glad you brought that up because the performance of The Afghani doctor was so Vincent. Yeah. Good. He I wrote in my notes, Vincent, the real MVP truly these feel like he's my favorite person in the whole movie.

20:28 Gwyneth Paltrow is great. Yeah, I loved her as Pepper Potts. But Vinson was the best performance of the Moon. I think so, too. And the only part of the movie where I actually felt emotion is When Vincent is dying and he tells Tony basically, you know, don't waste your life on this. You know, I'm going to see my wife and man that got me a yeah that that 100% got me and that moment portrayed by Vincent made Tony's change of heart. Real. Yeah if he hadn't performed as well and his role as an actor I don't think we would have bought the change of heart when Tony comes back and says look like we are not selling weapons anymore until at the very least until we figure out how to stop double-dealing. Yeah. And you wouldn't have bought that unless you had that moment with Vincent, when Vincent dies in the cave and the rest of the terror group is outside the cave, waiting for Tony to emerge.

21:17 It's my favorite like beat of the whole performance of Robert Downey jr. Because you see him like watch Benson die and then you just see how pissed off he gets and you're like, oh, you know, something's coming. Now flamethrowers are coming now and I'm glad you brought that up because I was kind of shocked at the level of violence in this movie. Yeah, because I think like quote unquote. Marvel violence has become a thing. Yeah, we're people. But there's no blood and they can just kind of get punched in and die but like, Stormtroopers, you know, I mean, yeah, he's literally burning guys to death, it's a movie, it's really violent. I think that the bloodless violence that Marvel has brought about, you can talk a lot of different ways about it. But in this movie, you definitely are seeing early era Marvel where they're still figuring out how they want to do violence and their movies.

22:02 I respect this violence more though. Yes. Because, you know and I'm not going to be like the This guy that's like, don't take your kids to see this. But just because it says PG-13, like this is clearly a movie for grown-ups. Yeah. But this is not a movie that you should be taking a five-year-old to see, you know what I mean? And I feel like the same thing with infinity War, I was actually in the theater and they were like, four year, olds behind me, and they were freaking traumatized by it. You should not be taking a four-year-old to see Infinity war, and I think that like the bloodless violence of Marvel is influencing parents to think that it's okay, right? You know what I mean? Oh, for sure. And I think that one of the problems with Violence is that it desensitizes you to realize, exactly. It's because you have the sense of like, oh well, you know, there's no blood and gore so it's okay.

22:47 Yeah. And I think it does kind of teach this lesson of like, well-balanced is okay, is nobody's, you know, bloodied up well and especially with that early suit that he makes that thing is just that is a weapon of mass destruction that and yet it's the shoddiest construction of it. Like if you look at the suit that he makes, there's just like a gaping hole around the neck. Yeah, where it's like, why didn't they just I shoot it as neck. I just kind of wanted that to even like the eye holes are pretty big. Yeah, I'm like, so what I becomes up behind him and tries to shoot him in the head and it bounces off and ricochets go down to the net, right? Shoot him in the spine. Come on, Tony what you think you're doing, man? Well Brad. I think that we have rambled enough about Iron, Man. We should probably try some of this Tennessee, whiskey. Hmm, let's bust out this George Dickel, number 12, and see what we think it sounds great.

23:32 All right. Alright, welcome back. We are going to be trying some George Dickel number 12 today, I don't really understand what the number 12 designation means. I feel like a lot of not even just Whiskey's but like alcohols in general. We have a number. You know like what was there like 11 failed attempts before this sure. I don't know. Yeah it might it might be just their 12th, you know iteration or whatever. I thought it, maybe it was a 12 year. Yeah but it's not. It's just it's called George Dickel. Superior number 12, as I say it's only $20. So This is a Tennessee, whiskey. And is my first Tennessee, whiskey, yeah. Now, Tennessee whiskey seems to be for the most part following the same rules as you would get for bourbon. They just don't like to be called bourbon because they're made in Tennessee.

24:22 It's kind of a marketing Ploy, right? But one thing that I found that distinguishes Tennessee, whiskey from bourbon is, before they put it in the barrel, they go through a process where they filter, everything through charcoal and then it goes into the barrel and that's the big distinction between Tennessee and Kentucky. So when it says Tennessee, sour, mash whiskey, is that what they're talking about? How sour mash is the same thing you would get with with bourbon is just the way that they ferment it, okay? But even like they're mashed bill, they have their match but listed on their website, it's 84% corn a try at eight barley. So I mean your talks like bourbon exactly. Yeah, exactly. So why don't we go ahead and get into the nose on this? Brad. What are you getting on the nose of this? George Dickel 12.

25:04 You know, I feel like there's it's one of those things where when you say something then you start to smell and taste it but that charcoal that you were talking about and I feel like that's noticeable on the nose. I'm not see, I'm not getting anything on that. At this does not have a very complex nose to me tastes like, it smells like alcohol like just ethanol and I get when I'm really breathing in it smells a little bit like acetone, fun fact, Bob this is out his alcohol. My nose has not failed me yet. I mean, are you Brad? Are you picking up any? Floral or fruity notes at all? No yeah I might even getting much of a vanilla or caramel off of this. I'll be honest with you, it does kind of have a smoky small so I kind of said that already when charcoal, it reminds me a little bit of the monkey shoulder on the nose.

25:48 The the scotch that was Scotch. It does have a little bit of smoke to it and I don't know if that's coming from the charcoal filtering or just from the Char on the barrel. Well why don't, you know that Bob, right? Get better. I would probably give this a 4 on the nose. Yeah, it's not offensive. It's not bringing out anything specific. I'd probably give it a five. Alright, let's go ahead and try a sip of it too. Wow. That tastes like nothing and then it burns. That's about it. Yeah that's just the opening taste is an absence of I don't taste any sweetness 84% corn where's the corn man? Yeah I was actually just thinking that that when you have that higher Mash bill of corn, you would expect there to be some sweetness to it.

26:31 Yeah. And for the, the 8% Rye, I mean it really has some spice on the back end. I don't even know if I'd say spice though. Because I think it's easy to confuse spice. And I will all burn. Yeah. The burn of alcohol, which we've talked about this before, but the proof of the alcohol does not necessarily indicate the burn. Yeah. This is a 90 Proof. This is like a standard Bird, right? And the the very first one that we did, the Jamesy pepper was 100 proof. And I would say burn less than this for sure. Yeah, I would probably give this a 3 on The Taste because there just isn't much of one at all. I would agree with you three. Yeah, I think I'm gonna have to go with the 33 finish. We've talked about it a little bit.

27:12 Ready. But it just you have a really harsh alcohol burn. On the back of my tongue. The lingering aftertaste is not super bitter, but there's just not much there. Yeah, not complex. I probably also give the finish at 3. I was going to give it a to cool because it's just that where the door nickel is not. Yeah my George the burn is a lot more than I expected. Now on their website they say that this is a blend of older whiskies. They don't give an age on it. Tell me Bob. What does that mean? Tap. Exactly It doesn't taste like an old like a. It's been aged and we know that if they doesn't have an age printed on it it needs to be at least 4 years old. Right? Right. I don't see an age on this snow and I have a hard time believing that this has been aged for four years.

27:56 Yeah, I do see something that says it is the finest quality sipping weight. Without the Jeep sipping? Yeah. Just sipping without a Jeep with ' and then in between fine quality sipping. It says eight. Nothing better ain't nothing better. I can think of a lot of things. Better than this unfortunately. I like drinking good whiskey, I did to what's the balance on this? I don't, I mean it's be quite honest, it was fairly balanced because it was just nothing the whole way through 10 of them to burn. If I'm being honest, I probably give it a 6 on the balance because it just, it's consistent. Yeah, I was going to say it is consistently poor. So five six. So I come out to a 16 out of 40. Brad, what are you coming out to 15 15. So we are at a 15 and a half on George Dickel, 12. I don't know if this was the best introduction to Tennessee. Whiskey.

28:47 Yeah. So, I'm struggling because I feel like $20 is a decent price point for in your head, thinking to yourself. I want to buy something that's decent, but I don't want to spend a lot of money. Yeah, so I'm looking to spend 20 to 25 dollars. I would buy Benchmark before I buy this as our scores indicate to. Yeah. Yeah, it's Mark. I tried some Benchmark. The other night over an ice cube and adding a little bit of water to it. The opened it up. I don't know that it would do the same for the Dickel. Yeah, I'm really struggling. The big thing for me is I can handle a nose and a finish that struggles if you have good taste. Yeah. But if you don't have good taste on the palate while while you are drinking it, it's hard to save.

29:32 I will say I just added a couple drops of water to this. It opens it up significantly. There's a little bit more sweetness to it but again, I would not I would not recommend this. It is better with water, but if you have to tell someone to water down there, whiskey to make it better, you're not in a good place to start out with. Yeah, I just tried the water trick. Not not working for you. I think it the flavors are more there. Yeah. You notice a little bit more of the flavor. So, overall, Brad would you recommend? No, I would not recommend either guys. Again, we're going to throw you back to Benchmark and to our boy, very old. Very old bar. He is holding up. Well, yeah, he really is and it's impressive. To be able to make a whiskey that is under the twenty five dollar price point.

30:17 That's something you could drink any day and so Benchmark, Very Old Barton, if you're looking for something cheaper stick to those Georgia. Dickel does not quite make the cut of finest quality sipping? No, Brad. I don't think that our boy Tony Stark would be investing in any of this. I highly doubt that his business Acumen would lead him to investing in Georgia a dick. Oh well why don't we get back to talking a little bit about the movie Iron Man, let's do it. So that was George Dickel, 12. Not super impressed with that. Brad. How do you feel about it? I feel very poorly, but we don't feel poorly about Iron Man. Not at all.

31:01 I looking back at this movie, can we talk for a second about like how it has aged sure since you know it came out in 2008. Yep. The summer of 2008, we're coming up on the summer 2019 so it's about 11 years old, I think the movie has aged so well I think that some aspects of age Well, and I think that Marvel, you know, you have to remember, this was the first one in the Marvel. Cinematic Universe are still exploring. What it means to be a part of the Marvel Cinematic Universe and they're exploring how to develop characters like, I think that Tony Stark Robert Downey jr. Is great in this movie, everyone knows it, but I also think that he's really lucky that he got to develop a character over. He's been in like 10 of the movies now, right? And, you know, the comparison of my mind was like, when we first saw, Johnny Depp as Jack Sparrow and that Character was so weird. And so fully fleshed out, Johnny Depp actually got nominated for an Oscar for the first Pirates of the Caribbean movie. I did, you know that?

31:56 Yeah, that's how good it was, and I feel like with Iron Man, like we knew Robert Downey jr. Was Iron Man, but he doesn't really have a ton to work with after he gets out of the cave. Yeah, it really just turns into kind of a paint-by-numbers like action superhero movie at that point. Yeah and I thought the his performance in the first half of the film is great but then he kind of gets Caught up in, like the mechanics of what we need to do to finish the movie, right? I'm a superhero now, I'm testing the equipment and be that funny. Exactly, yeah, yeah. So I look at the script of this movie and like I just think that there's quite a bit of stuff that they could have done to improve it, you know, developing Robert Downey jr. His character developing the female characters in the movie because there aren't many.

32:40 I really there's two yeah it was the reporter at the start of the movie. Yep who was also Ricky Bobby's wife, she was Ricky Bobby. His wife. Yes in Talladega Nights. Talladega Nights interesting, Bobby. So she's in the beginning and she kind of comes back towards the end, right? And then there's pepper, right? And I think again, we've already talked about. We think one of Paltrow's great. I really liked your performance here, but the way that this movie really kind of objectifies the female reporter, she like she comes across as I'm tough. And I'm independent. And the next scene. Tony says, like one disarming thing to her sleeping with Tony. Yeah. And you will not see that In an MCU movie now, right? You know, since they've introduced people like Captain Marvel and black widow. You don't I really appreciate that. These women have roles that aren't making them just subservient to the men and and they're actually now, they're developing the as superheroes, but I also think that those roles that the interesting thing is that Pepper Potts position her role in the movie is subservient to. Tony, she's his personal assistant. That runs his life, basically.

33:47 Yeah. Yeah, but I don't think that they put her in a role where she's truly subservient, you see her throughout the movie, and positions, of power and influence, and, and control over Tony, where I truly think she has a good role in the movie that is, unfortunately, portrayed against the role of the reporter. That's true. You know, I think it's just kind of hard when you only have two female characters in the movie and you've already made them like diametrically opposed to each other. There's our apis, everyone else in the movies, man. And you don't really read into their gender, because it's just, you know, they're so different as characters. They all have different character arcs and so you're relying on the reporter and Gwyneth Paltrow to carry the idea of like what it means to be a woman in this movie. Yeah, well, I think I also struggle because Pepper Potts is a fleshed-out character, right?

34:39 And the reporter is a caricature. She has. She's so one-dimensional. Yeah. And and it's not that I'm necessarily asking a character who Has three to four minutes total screen time to have, you know, a giant character Arc, right? But it's disappointing. Sure. Yeah. So that brings us back to the question of the writing and the direction. So we talked about how, we don't really think this has the best Marvel, you know, script and it could have used some work. See, I will say this though. This is still my favorite Marvel Cinematic Universe movie. This is your favorite one. Yes, interesting. I love this movie. Even with its, you know, it's not perfect. Yeah. Even Let's watch. You think this is the best one you've seen? I think they went downhill from here. Well, you also haven't seen 10 of them but I've also seen ten of them.

35:25 That's true. Good point, my friend. So let's talk a little bit about Jon, Favreau as a director. I think he does a pretty good job. It's not just a sort of serviceable, I put the camera here, the actors do their thing. There's some moments where you really get a sense of what Fabro does as a director, he knows when to lighten the mood, you know, when Tony's testing out his Mark to Mark 3 suit, right? And you've got that sort of like, really dumb robot that Tony keeps yelling at bringing in that little bit of levity is really helpful, but also the way that they constructed the whole front end of the movie In The Afghani cave, I thought was, it's the kind of thing you don't, you don't see for a while after this, in Marvel movies.

36:07 And the thing about that is that at the start of the movie, you kind of got this picture of Tony as just like a complete jerk. Yeah, he's just this Asinine dude who only cares about himself. And so, the comedy that he portrays, then feels very shallow and it just comes across as sleazy, right. Whereas his comedic Parts later in the film once he's kind of had the pivotal change of heart moment, feel more genuine and they genuinely come across this funnier. Yeah, for sure. And again that's not to say that everything about this script is bad. Like I think that they give Robert Downey jr. Some really funny like even at the beginning Beginning when the reporters talking to him, I think she asked him a question. Like, you know, what do you think about your nickname, The Merchant of death, right.

36:56 And he goes, oh, that's not bad. That's not bad. Yeah, it's funny. Like it has moments of levity and wit to it that really helped to develop the character and that's one of those examples where I think sometimes we talk about script and writing and and the way things are filmed but in the end if you don't have the right actor, sure Phil Roll. It doesn't matter how great of a script you write how brilliant you are at editing or sound production. If you don't have the right person who has the right size and the right control of their face and their, their reaction to things, it doesn't matter. And I think Robert Downey jr. Deserves a lot of credit for creating the Iron Man character and honestly for bringing the Marvel Cinematic Universe into success. Yeah, for sure.

37:45 He makes a Persona in this movie There's a really early scene where he's testing out his weapon called the Jericho, right? And it's one of my favorite shots the movie with everything exploding behind him. And he just lifts his arms up as like this show men that he is. Yeah, and I think it's phenomenal, because it adds so much to the character, and his sense of Showmanship that you wouldn't get that with another actor. He knows exactly where to make Tony's character traits. Come out. You've been called The DaVinci of our time. What do you say to that? Absolutely. Ridiculous. I don't paint. And what do you say to your other nickname, The Merchant of death. That's not bad. Let me guess Berkeley Brown actually. Well, Ms. Brown, it's an imperfect world but it's the only one we've got.

38:36 I guarantee you the day weapons are no longer needed to keep the peace. I'll start making bricks, and beans for baby hospitals. There's that much every night in front of the mirror before bedtime, I can see that. I'd like to show you firsthand. All I want is a serious answer? Okay, here's serious. My old man had a philosophy. Peace means having a bigger stick than the other guy. It's a great line coming from the guy selling the sticks. My father helped defeat the Nazis, he worked on the A lot of. So Brad, do you have any other favorite scenes? Carbon elements of the movie that stick out to you, as worth mentioning? You know, I know we mentioned that Vinson, we loved him but like man, I don't think we could spend enough time talking about how great that opening scene was now and not only his time in Afghanistan. But even the very opening scene of the movie, you get that sense of Tony's dry humor when he's with the soldiers and the A colon and you see him telling Roadie like like we're gonna be in the fun V you go on the humdrum the yeah and it leads so well into his time in the cave.

39:39 I don't know why. But saying the cave just reminded me of like Plato's. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Right. And like in a sense, you see Tony as his weapons, are projected in front of him, as like, these are bringing death and destruction in the world. And I don't think he ever understood that before. Hmm. And so I look at his time in the cave And I just that period of the movie could be one of the better movies I've ever seen in my life. Yeah, it's just, it's a really interesting. I don't wanna call it a political thriller but it is like a wartime Thriller, right? And what bothers me about the end of the movie? The final fight scene with Obadiah? Jeff Bridges is that when you watch Tony fighting his way out of the Cave, the choreography of the shots and the space that you're in, you know exactly where he's at. You know, exactly.

40:27 When he has to make a turn What it takes to get out of the cave when he gets out of the cave, you see all the weapons kind of laid out that Tony blows up to make his escape and you as a viewer, understand the space. You're in the final fight. They're all over an unnamed city right there. Just blowing stuff up there. Lifting up cars throwing them at each other. They finally go back to the Stark Industries compound, The Arc Reactor blows up. You don't really understand where they are, what they're doing, where anything is, it's just a sequence of cool things to look at. That but to me that last 15, 20 minutes of the movie, it doesn't add up to anything. It's just like fun stuff blowing up and I think that's one of my biggest struggles with the MCU is that I feel like more of the movies, adhere to that part of Iron Man, then the first part of Iron Man. Yeah and that's and that's honestly my biggest struggle with the Cinematic Universe.

41:22 That Marvel has created, is that it doesn't feel like any of it really matters. Which is, which sounds bad because in the end we're talking about the destruction of the universe by Thanos. So, sure, I haven't seen Infinity War so you gotta watch Infinity Ward. I know I need to watch it but you know, all of these movies are like these Grand schemes. That I can't even understand. It's kind of like when they talk about the national debt being 20 trillion, 30 trillion dollar came to comprehend. Like, I can't even comprehend that I can comprehend. 1 million dollars, right? I can think about my, oh, yeah, if I made this much and I feel like the first Part of Iron Man is something that I can emotionally connect with.

42:02 Yeah. And the second half of Iron Man, which I feel like more of the Marvel Universe has been modeled after. I just can't emotionally connect with. I can't understand the magnitude of what's going on, it just feels fake and so this gets into like script deficiencies but it also gets into Tony kind of lacks a purpose in the second half of the movie because he comes back from Afghanistan, he has that press conference where he's Really transformed as a person and he says, Stark Industries needs to be developing alternative energies that aren't just weapons. You know, I'm committed to using this Arc Reactor technology to do great things. And then all of a sudden, he finds out that gold Mira. The little town that Vinson was from, has been attacked by this Terror cell. He goes back and just kills a bunch of terrorists and becomes a weapon himself.

42:51 And I feel like the movie starts sending kind of mixed signals about what they think of weapons. Badgers what they think of, you know, being a merchant of death because Tony kind of falls into that. A good guy with a gun is always a good thing because Tony becomes the good guy with a gun, you know? And those people in Afghanistan wouldn't have been saved without Iron Man. So it seems like it wants it both ways, it wants Tony to be like this changed person but then he just ends up becoming a weapon himself and it kind of falls apart in the end for me because he's no longer sticking to what he learned or he's not representing what he said. He He was exactly. Yeah, so Brad we you know, we've talked about how this movie was a Trailblazer for the MCU.

43:33 We've also talked about how it has some flaws to it. We're not quite sure what it's trying to say about Tony Stark's place in the world. He doesn't he doesn't wrestle with these emotions enough for us. So as we come to wind down, what's your analysis, what's your evaluation of this movie? What kind of score would you give it in the grand scheme of things? The reason I love this movie is because it's not just a superhero. Be it's a movie about a flawed human being. Yeah, it's a movie about Tony Stark who moves from a place of affluence and wealth to realizing that that means nothing that for Vinson. The only thing that matters is getting back to his wife and kids. Yeah, and Tony doesn't have anybody who cares about him to go back to and so for me there was a hope that he would go back and be with Pepper Potts and and create a life of his own bringing good into the world and you don't get Get that. Yeah and so I and I think that this movie is phenomenal and what it does, I think so many parts of this movie Works super well, but watching it, eleven years later knowing what I know about the Marvel Cinematic Universe. It almost makes me sad that I feel like they were hitting on something in the first half of this movie, that could have been phenomenal.

44:50 Yeah. But they chose to focus the rest of their Cinematic Universe on the second half of the movie. Which Would they didn't make the wrong decision in a monetary standpoint, right? They've made billion, yes of dollars off of this. But for me as somebody who cares about story and character development, I struggle with the direction that they went. If we're looking at just Ironman alone, throw out the rest of the semantic Universe. I still love this movie. Yeah, I still really enjoy it. Watching it this time, 67 time. I thought that there was a lot of parts of it that still hold up. Extremely well 11. Years later. Yep. Are we getting into final scores? I think we should, but I also think that this, the, the problem for me is that I want to score it as a superhero movie, right?

45:38 Like, and in terms of, I've seen some bad superhero movies? Yes, like, this is, at least an 8 or a 9 on the scale of superhero movies, but when you're just comparing it as a movie, right? I really do think that it has some glaring plot flaws and like you said, the first half of this movie shares, so much DNA with the Dark Knight. Yeah, it's so grounded and rooted in reality. And the second half is like I can fly. I can go to Afghanistan in a few hours, flying my cool suit blowing stuff up and fighting Jeff Bridges that the movie really does fall off for me. So like, I think if we're scoring it against movies in general, I'd give it a seven. I still think it's a good movie, but I have to keep in mind that I'm not just scoring it against superhero movies.

46:22 I'm scoring it against, you know, the Godfather and the tree of life and all these Other ones that we watched, I just want to make so many jokes about tree of life, and the funny thing is, I love that movie. But I hated that movie, absolutely. I would give it a seven and a half. Yeah, like it was a, it's still a solid movie. I think the struggle with the movie is that it's unevenly waited. The first half of the movie. I would give about a nine and a half. Oh for sure. And the second half about a five to six. Yeah and so I end up in the second half and 88 range but yes I would probably finish it out with a 7. Half. Highly recommend it if somehow you haven't seen it. Yeah, go watch.

47:02 It's a fun movie to watch, you know, you're not going to get a ton of like social commentary or whatever, but it's fun. It's a good movie to watch, it brings up some issues, but it kicks off this Renaissance of superhero movies that we have now, and they wouldn't have happened without Robert Downey jr. And this movie whatsoever? Yeah, great movie. Great fun. Go watch it. If you somehow haven't seen it, That would be ridiculous. And before you go watch it we're going to send you to our social media accounts. Guys. We need all the help we can get. We are still a new podcast. So if you are on Instagram, come find us on Instagram at film whiskey, same handle for Twitter at film whiskey. We're on Facebook, filmin, whiskey podcast. Or you can give us a call on our call in line. We want to include your comments on the air. Give us a call.

47:51 The number is two one. Six eight hundred five nine two three that's two 16 800 5923 for the film and whiskey podcast. I'm Bob book, I'm Reggie will see you guys next time.