Independence Day / Willett Pot Still Reserve Bourbon

0:00 In 1996, director Roland Emmerich and star Bill Pullman gave the world an explosive foray into Third Kind Encounters and how awesome America can truly be. In 2024 we try one of the most contentious bourbons on the market. The film is Independence Day. The whiskey is will it pot still reserved. And we'll review them both. This is the film and whiskey. Podcast Welcome to the Film and Whiskey Podcast, where each week we review a classic movie and a glass of whiskey. I'm Bob Book.

0:52 I'm Brad G. And Brad, there has never been a better time to be an American. Because today we are talking about perhaps the most American movie ever made, 1996's Independence Day, a film that for a time, and that time, you know, in parentheses. That time is when I was seven years old, but for a time was my favorite film ever made. I believe it, man. It's it's a hell of a movie. It's so good, dude. It's so good and it's also so bad. And I don't think I've ever watched this movie through the critical lens that I watch movies on this podcast. And I turned it on this time and I was like, oh, this is like truly bad at parts.

1:36 And also, I am having a complete blast watching this movie. It's so good. I'm glad that you've come to that place, Bob, otherwise this may have been. A. Very contentious episode. The I think that we're just going to be on opposite ends of the bell curve. Like if you're if you're in like the 70th percentile of people who love this movie, I think I might be in like the 30th, 40th where I'm like the the parts that work in this movie I do enjoy and they're they're ridiculous and over the top and funny. But a solid 50 to 70% of this film could have been left on the cutting room floor. I'll tell you what, man.

2:21 I think you're being very generous because if you truly believe that 70% of the movie should have been cut, that that signals a pretty bad movie to me. It could have been a short film. All right. Well, as we get into our episode today, I just want to say if this is your first time joining us, don't leave yet. I'm going to praise Independence Day, as we all know it should be done. You never know, Bob, that that might drive some people away. That's. True. Well, you can hear Brad talk about the 30% that worked. If this is your first time joining us, welcome into film and whiskey. What we do here is we talk about movies and we talk about whiskey. And this season we are, we're changing things up a little bit. Not that we're replacing films or whiskey, but typically we look at movies that are considered classics of books. And wine books and books.

3:09 Typically we look at movies that are considered classics of their genre. And I mean, perhaps Independence Day is considered a classic of some genre, but this year what we're doing is we're going year by year from 1988 to 2019 and looking at the highest grossing films of those years. Now Brad, remind me, is Independence Day actually the number one highest grossing film of 96? I don't believe it is. See. I thought it might have been because I. What? Let me look. OK. OK. And while you look, I'll keep vamping, but every now and then we run into this situation where we're not actually watching the highest grossing film because we've already reviewed that. But we are looking at huge blockbuster money makers.

3:50 And Independence Day in a lot of ways kind of exemplifies the summer blockbuster of the 1990s. This movie was a money printing machine and I feel like it's one of those movies that it didn't really have much of A footprint at the Oscars or anything like that. But everyone in America saw this movie, and I remember it being just absolutely everywhere when we were kids. So I'm excited to dive into this one. Brad, what are you getting on this one? Well, the IMDb is only showing domestic, it's not showing foreign take. So according to IMD BS 1996 Worldwide Box Office, this is the number one grossing film we did it with with 306,000,000, followed by Twister and Mission Impossible.

4:39 What a freaking year. Yeah, Jerry Maguire at 4. Ransom at five, 101 Dalmatians at six. Look at that. Well, we had a good top five at least. Never heard of Ransom? It's a Mel Gibson movie where he, his kid gets taken and he kills a lot of people. It's freaking great. OK, yeah, it sounds like there's a a theme here. Have you seen Twister? I've not seen Twister. They're making a sequel to it. I just saw the commercial during the Super Bowl. It has Glenn Powell. I'm I'm very excited for Glenn Powell. I was tornadoes Glenn Powell's your like your your rags to riches hope story for a new superstar movie star.

5:19 I know he had to overcome looking like that to become the movie star that he is now. Speaking of sequels, I have very important news for you, Bob. No, what's that, Brad? I have finally gotten around to watching the film you've begged me to watch for three years now. I watched Deniz Dune. You know what else is even bigger news? In the last three days, I too have watched Deniz Dune. Have you now? Are you getting ready for Dune? Two I am, yeah. There's a there's a screening coming up in like a week. I'm very, very excited for it. I wanted to refresh myself. Interesting movie Brad, because I saw it in the theater and it was like mind blowing.

6:03 I saw it on the small screen and I was like I I really like when film makers take sci-fi seriously and you can tell the scope and the scale of this movie is massive and the the shot composition is designed for a 40 foot wall with an image projected on it. It doesn't quite translate as well on the small screen. I I came out of this one like that was like a 7/7 and 1/2 and I when I saw it in the theater, I was like, that's an 8 1/2. Yeah, that's exactly where I was. I I, I I want to see Dune 2 in theaters. It also made me want to read the books. It it gave me just enough to make to pique my interest. I think the biggest problem with Dune was just that they got caught into the trap of world building and they didn't lean into what Lord of the Rings does and help you fall in love with the characters and.

6:58 And I think that was my biggest problem with it is like Oscar Isaac is busy dying and I'm kind of like like I don't, I don't really care about him at all. Like, all of the characters in this movie are unlikable and the action is great. And like, the the world building is pretty cool. Like there's these creepy witches and there's a bunch of different houses and there's an unseen emperor that's apparently going to be played by Christopher Walken which led to no end of ridiculous imitations of what the emperor would be saying as Christopher Walken. But yeah, it was a good time. Had a good time with friends overall was somewhat unimpressed with the film as a whole. But it it's a Denny like the the floor for that film is A7. And like you said in theaters.

7:49 I can easily go, yeah, that's that's an 8 to 9 out of 10 movie in theaters. Well see Brad, The thing is when you talk about how that movie failed to do world building, right, you forgot to mention that the alternative to a world building movie is a movie where aliens come and just blow up your world. And that's what we have today. And that's why Independence Day hot take better than dude that. I feel like that is a hot take. It is also not my take, but I think that means that it is time for us to get into our first segment of the day, which we call Brad explains. Brad's going to give us the movie plots with only 60 seconds ticking on the clock, so let's go ahead and hear your take with this little segment that we call.

8:34 Brad explains. Brad Explains is the part of the podcast where Brad breaks down the plot of the film that he has just seen, often for the first time. Brad, this was your first time with Independence Day, right? Sure was, yeah. You were talking about the bell curve of enjoyment. I also think you're on the other end of the bell curve for me in terms of age at which you first watched this movie. Oh yes, and therefore the effectiveness of this movie. Yes. You also, you also gave me like an education of 250 plus films before I watched this. So if there's if there's anybody to blame for me being a little bit mad on the movie, it's your fault. It's.

9:15 Ultimately, me. Yeah. Yeah. Now, you were talking a bit ago about sequels. This movie did get a sequel back in, oh gosh, I don't know, 20/14/2017. It was so forgettable that I have no idea when it came out. And I never saw that movie. So when you brought up sequels, I was like, wow, did you go watch the sequel to this movie? Because you would have outdone me on doing your homework on this film. I sure did not did it was Will Smith in that. I don't believe so. I think I know Jeff Goldblum was, but OK, but not the big Willie. Yeah, I will say my biggest surprise about Independence Day one, the the original, because I didn't even know there was a second one.

9:55 My biggest surprise was that I I feel like I always had the image of this movie, that this was like a Will Smith blockbuster when in all reality he was just kind of one cog in the machine. Well, one piece of the puzzle. I I was very surprised by how little he was in the film. Well, it's time for you to explain that machine and the cogs within it, because you have one minute on the clock to spoil this film and go. So there weren't any aliens. And then there were and they wanted to kill everybody and we couldn't stop them. But then then Jeff Goldblum can do some crazy math stuff, and now we can stop them and we blow them up because they suck and we're awesome. And why are we awesome, Brad?

10:43 Because we're America. That's right. All right, that's good enough. Let's jump into the movie itself. So I want to start just kind of from the beginning and work through this thing in the order that it is presented to us. So it starts with an image of the moon. You see the memorial that Neil Armstrong set up, and then all of a sudden a shadow creeps across the face of the moon. And what a freaking great way to start this movie. Incredible opening like. First off, you failed to mention that the opening like titles explode. As every film in the 90s did. Yeah, I was going to say there's no hiding what this movie is about. No, it's about watching.

11:27 Get blown up, Brad. So OK, the movie starts with this, this moon thing. And very, very quickly it gets into the meat of the movie. Like you, you have the aliens showing up in these giant fireballs in the sky and starting to position their ships over major cities around the world. And we are introduced to a few groups of people in different cities. So you've got the Jeff Goldblum character in New York City. He is like the main tech guy at a cable company in the 90s. You've got Will Smith and his girlfriend and her son out in California. Will Smith is is it an Air Force pilot? Like he's like he's. Continually refer to him as a Marine.

12:08 A Marine? He's a Marine pilot. Got it, Got it. OK, so he's, he's off base, but he's watching this whole thing unfold over the, you know, skyline of Los Angeles. And then you've got Bill Pullman and his circle in Washington, DC Bill Pullman is the president of the United States. And boy, oh boy. Also, just clearly say he is very obviously banging his assistant that like Jeff Goldblum is nervous about them having an affair. Like they're very obviously having an affair. He was right to be nervous. Is that what we're saying? Yes. Yes. OK. So I was going to end my little thing about, you know, triangulating all these three things by saying, boy, oh boy, is it crazy how much these three groups of people overlap throughout this movie. And I'm going to be honest with you, man, I think that the 1st 30 to 35 minutes of this movie are almost perfectly plotted and set up and and like, rhythmically they move you through each of these groups of people. Like, I started watching this movie and I had to turn it off for a couple hours and I stopped, like right about the 3035 minute mark.

13:17 And the aliens had not yet blown anything up. But I was like, they, they're really doing a good job of building the suspense and the dread and the sort of ominous thing going on here. And I'm learning about these characters. And I will say that just in the next 15 minutes, like, you know, the aliens are going to blow something up because Jeff Goldblum tells you the countdown is on and then he tries to get in touch with his ex-wife, who we find out is the press secretary at the White House or something thereabouts. Who's totally not sleeping with the? President Not sleeping with the president, but wink, wink. And so then you get this side quest where Jeff Goldblum has to go to Washington, DC because he wants to save his wife and also tell the president about all this stuff. And I will say, like, as soon as that side quest starts, the next 15 minutes of the movie almost could have just been cut out, dude.

14:09 Like. But what are you talking about, Bob? You get Judd Hirsch being the most Jewish Jew that has ever been a Jew. Like, offensively so. Yep. But also OK, so like the like, the aliens start blowing stuff up. I paused it 42 minutes and 40 seconds, which is like a good chunk of the way into the movie. Yeah, I would say it is a really long movie. And I think if you cut out 30 minutes and you put that back about 15, get the aliens blowing stuff up 30 minutes, then I think you have a hell of a movie. And that's what I'm saying. Like, I actually thought that it was perfectly plotted up till 30 minutes and from 30 to 42 it it lost me. And I'm a guy who is like very firmly in the Independence Day camp.

14:55 It lost me and I was like I made a mental note because I knew. I knew in my mind Brad's going to think this drags here and you're if you know whether you did or not, I'm going to tell you Brad, you are right, it does drag. Thanks, man. I appreciate when you tell me that I'm right for things that I never even. Told that I just assume about you, yeah. Yeah, I I struggled a little bit with pacing throughout the entire film. I I think there's definitely moments where you spend time with characters that I just don't care about. I also think that they they give you just enough time in the opening sequences of the film with certain like secondary characters that end up dying off just enough to get you to like them.

15:40 And specifically, I am thinking of Harvey Fierstein, who plays Marty The Who has probably the most distinct voice in Hollywood history. Oh yeah, like as soon as you hear his voice, you're like, oh, I know him. I don't know what his name is. I I mean, I just had to look it up. But he is probably my favorite character. I wish they had killed everyone else off. Like they could have killed Jeff Goldblum off and I would have been fine. Keep. Harvey Fierstein alive and I just want to see like a Cloverfield style. Somehow he gets a hold of a handheld Cam and like records his experience of Independence Day. But overall, they keep the right people alive and by the time you get to the the ending action, you're kind of ready for everything to be over. And so that last bit of action really flies through. But you're right.

16:37 The middle 4050% of the film, it's it's a lot, man. There's a lot of cheesy, cheesy acting, bad dialogue. Well, and I'm trying to think of exactly how to like format the way we talk about it. But I think the 1st place I want to start is, you know, in this first third of the movie, because the movie is divided up into July 2nd, July 3rd, July 4th. And each of those days has a very distinct flavor to it in terms of what kind of movie this is trying to be. And so the first day is very much your like 1970s disaster movie, which we've never really talked about a movie like that on this podcast, Brad. But there was a huge genre in the 70s.

17:19 There's a movie called Airport that kind of kicked things off. And then you had like The Poseidon Adventure in The Towering Inferno. They were all these movies where like something horrible happens and we got 45 A to B list actors to be in this movie. And you're going to watch people that you know and love burn to death. And you never know, like who's who's next. And that be like would Flight of the Phoenix fall into that category? Probably a little bit. But like these were more built around like a giant, you know, disaster happening where every everybody mostly dies. Yeah, I. Remember seeing the The Poseidon when I was a kid and and loving that movie. So I think in that vein, this movie is like really paying homage to that. I don't know like the extent to which it succeeds at that, but I think the like the secondary and tertiary characters, I think this script does a really good job of setting them up with minimal exposition to make you like them. Like the Harvey Fierstein character, I really liked him. But then like some of the primary characters, it's like they go overboard with the back story and I think that's like like the Jeff Goldblum character. I just, I'm going to be honest with you, man. Like I just don't care that much. Like and you could have accomplished what you want to accomplish with like 4 less scenes in that first 45 minutes. Oh, all you needed was the opening scene with him, him playing chess with his dad, right? But even like the.

18:46 Incredible scene. Even if you want to continue the my wife works for the president now. You didn't have to have like 5 scenes of them on their little road trip talking about like, what it means to be a man and regret. And like, just like I want to watch aliens blow things up, let's please move this along. Yeah, no, 100%, that's that's what I'm saying. Like the chess scene was great. It was sweet and established what their relationship is with each other. I I also don't feel like you needed the like Green Earth Warrior message coming out of Jeff Goldblum's mouth like that felt like an extra 12 seconds every time he does that. Stick and it added up. They were trying to get their product placement in because he was like standing next to a fruitopia vending machine like. And like having cans of Coca-Cola everywhere. Yeah, it was not my favorite because it added up to a solid 4 or 5 minutes of screen time of him recycling things. Yeah, OK.

19:41 I I could have had that time back to do other things with my life. So I say all that about the characters that get set up well, because there is a fourth group of characters that I have not talked about at all yet and they don't like they. They seem very set apart from the rest. And that is Randy Quaid as crazy town drunk who flies a biplane and crop dusts and his. Was abducted by aliens 10 years ago. Abducted by aliens, the town crackpot, and his three children who are riding across, you know, the the deserts of California in an RV and they really want this to be Comic Relief. And then they want him to have a redemption arc at the end of the movie and it does not work. The only part of this character that works, and folks, you know, forgive me for spoiling a nearly 30 year old movie here, is when he sacrifices himself at the end of the movie and they let him go out, still being crazy, like it's not overly sentimental. He's just shouts Hello boys, I'm back. And then you get what is no exaggeration, one of the 10 best explosions in the history of films when that freaking ship blows up.

20:56 It's great, but I don't need Randy Quaid in any more of the movie than just that one part. No, it should have been the president. The president should have sacrificed himself for the good of the world. And they all draw around the memory of this great hero. He's you know top three president of all time. Like that's that's the Come on Bob. You and I should start writing scripts I. Know now if we're going to talk about the ending of this movie and whether it works, we have to get there. So July 2nd, the aliens arrive. Everybody's freaked out, Will Smith reports to Base. The president is putting stuff on lockdown and try not to get people freaked out. Jeff Goldblum's driving to Washington to have domestic drama inside the White House with his ex-wife.

21:37 And then the aliens attack. And the most iconic sequence of this movie starts where that building in Los Angeles blows up the Empire State Building, blows up, the White House blows up. It freaking rules. Oh yeah, it is. And like, I'm going to be honest with you, Brad, there's only a few stretches of this movie where some of the effects look hokey. I will say that the actual like attack of the aliens, it holds up tremendously well almost 30 years later. Yeah, that that's probably one of the few special effects area that looks great. I thought that the shot of the Statue of Liberty and like the surprisingly prescient burnt out husks of the two towers.

22:24 That shot was incredible. Like, talk about a devastated America. That's it in one shot. And they just, they nail it. And so there there's so much of that initial attack that like, you can tell where they put the budget in this movie. And it wasn't on the script writers. I do want to talk just for a minute since we're we're on topic now. Like this is a pre 911 movie in which an invading force knocks out national landmarks and wreaks destruction and kills thousands of people. And in this movie it's millions. But. Which which also leads to peace in the Middle East. True.

23:07 So at the end of the film, the Iraqis and I think the British. They're all working together, man. Yeah, they're working together, man. It's great. So a pre 911 movie where this happens and I was thinking oh like this seems very unique right? But actually, that's not the case. Like in in the 90s, there was a lot of movies where buildings were getting knocked over, and even like Godzilla, you know, the crappy 90s remake of that. But I don't think there's any more. I don't know what's the analogous thing to 911 than Independence Day in 90s cinema. We'll see a little bit of that in Armageddon, the beginning of that movie, in a couple weeks here. It's really interesting man.

23:48 And it's it's it's weird to watch with a post 9/11 lens because I feel like when stuff like this happens now, you know there's a lot of superhero Movies Now where they will destroy a city in the final fight of the movie. And a a criticism of that genre is always like you. You can't just flippantly kill thousands of people anymore in a post 911 world like it just reads it. It feels icky, right? And I think we were, we didn't feel icky about this in the 90s because it hadn't happened in real life yet. But there is a part of me that wonders, like, does America's response to 911, is it inflected with movies like this where somebody attacks us and we immediately attack back and like, that's what America does?

24:35 Do you know? Like, it's just it's very weird to think about what actually ends up unfolding in real history as a result of, or maybe not a direct result of, but, you know, in the wake of movies like this that came before it. Yeah, I mean it. It's fascinating because there there are a lot of films still to this day that represent America as like a trigger happy reactionary nation. Like I'm even thinking about the the monster universe. Like if you watch the first Godzilla from like I don't know 20/13/2014 like Godzilla comes and our our first response is to new kid like like that's the immediate response. So I think you still see that in media.

25:18 I was curious about the fact that they don't actually portray America's trigger happy in this film. No, no like. For the longest time, the president is trying to communicate they. I mean, I don't know if this is an homage, but it seems like an homage to close Encounters of the Third Kind. When they send up the helicopter with the. Yeah, like the light displays and trying to communicate. And I I do like that the the director and scriptwriters are like, we're not messing around with, like are we here for diplomatic relations The first time they try to communicate with the aliens, the aliens shoot them down without mercy like the like there's nothing in there.

25:59 And and even later in the film when they kind of quasi talk to an alien man in a sequence that kind of reminds me of of Alien right when the. Anyways, when they talk to him there, it's like there's no nothing going on there. We are here to destroy your world end of story. And they make it so obvious that they need to retaliate that they retaliate. Right. And that's the thing that. Is an interesting take. And because they portray America as so justified in doing it too. You know what I mean? Like. Right. We had no other choice, right? So anyway, I don't want to go down that road or open that can of worms, but it's a it's an interesting document now post 911. Yeah.

26:42 Oh, and I will say like, watch it. It's always interesting to watch, to examine cultural artifacts partially just for our own emotional response. Like when I'm watching this and I see the burning husk of 911 of 911. When I see the burning husk of the two towers in the scene following the devastation of New York. Like I got a little emotional. Bob 100%. I I remember being 11 years old and seeing the twin towers collapsing. Like there is a part of me that was like crap this is this is bringing something up. I yeah. Anyways. So the you know, there's a fade to black on July 2nd. After all these cities get absolutely annihilated, we fade up on July 3rd.

27:25 There's going to be a counter offensive. We're going to send some fighter pilots up there and see what damage we can do. And this is really where, like the bulk of the movie's exposition starts. Because the first third is like, we don't know anything about them and we're operating solely based on fear and survival instinct. And the second day of the movie is where the is where the movie really drags. Brad like I that middle third there's some great sequences. Like I I think that everything that happens with Will Smith is well done, like the the fighter pilot stuff, the chase through the canyons, punching an alien in the face and saying welcome to Earth. This is a star making performance for for Will Smith and he was, you know, perhaps the biggest actor on TV outside of Bill Cosby with The Fresh Prince. He does Bad Boys in 1995.

28:13 That's a big hit. But he like, he had not cemented his movie star credentials. And then this movie comes out and you're right, dude. Like it's remembered as a Will Smith movie. He is not even like, I don't even think he's in the movie as much as Bill Pullman is. No. And so, like, it says a whole lot about the charisma that my guy was bringing to the screen in 1996, that not only do we remember it as a Will Smith movie, but it just absolutely catapults him into the A list pretty much immediately. Yeah, yeah. I mean, at the end of the day, Bill Pullman as an actor is somebody that I've never heard of, Bob so.

28:55 He's, I mean, he's been in a lot of movies, but he was never like, outside of this, his biggest role ever is probably like he was the lead in Spaceballs, like the Mel Brooks movie. He is. That's that's funny. I didn't make that connection. And and like, I feel like, you know, we, we haven't really talked about performance as much. So let's sprinkle some in here. Bill Pullman, when I was a kid, I was like, that's a president. And now I watch it and I'm like, that's a guy trying to do a Clint Eastwood gruff voice. And I don't know why he's doing that voice the whole movie. And I don't know that this is a good performance. Yeah, it's not a great performance.

29:36 It would honestly be probably my least favorite performance from the main kind of characters in the film, if not for the fact that he, like, transforms into like, I don't know, like Jack Nicholson and A Few Good Men and just gives a speech to beat all speeches at the end of the film. All right, go ahead. No, we'll get there. We'll get there. We're on Day 2 right now, so. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, so Will Smith's whole thing happens. What What's going on in this part of the movie, too is like, it's it's kind of your classic trilogy. They're trying to do a whole trilogy in one movie, like something happens at the end of the first movie that leaves you wanting more. In the second film, our heroes are like truly laid low. And you think that we're laid low after the first day where all of our cities are bombed.

30:23 But then on the second day we try nuking the ship and nothing works. You know, we get this extended sequence in Area 51, which really that whole sequence kind of sucks, But like you get a great tip into horror for a minute where a live alien communicates the intentions of the aliens to the president and then through the vocal. Cords of a dead human being? Yeah, it's incredible. And then the that section of the movie ends with personal loss, like the the the president's wife dies, the first lady dead on July 3rd. Can I can I please just comment on that for one please? Please.

31:07 Please the The president's wife dies. Why? Because the plot needs her. She needs to die. Yeah, that's exactly why. That's like literally what the Doctor says. He's like, isn't there anything you can do? And the Doctor just kind of shrugs his shoulders and he's like, well, she doesn't have plot armor, so. If she maybe if she'd gotten here sooner. Yeah, but like, what's wrong? She just didn't get here sooner. Yeah, exactly. So she dies. You have a a cute kid saying is mommy sleeping? The the waterworks are on Brad but not. Just a cute kid. A cute kid who has been in another movie in the film and whiskey history.

31:48 Oh, who is this? She her name is Mae Whitmore. I believe she is in Scott Pilgrim versus the. World. Oh yeah, yeah, Yeah. Is that Mae Whitman? I think it's Whitman. That's her. Yeah, that's Mae Whitman, man. That's the president's daughter, man. She's like kind of a minor character in a bunch of films. OK, we're running long here, so let's let's put day three after the break. But before we wrap this up here, I want to talk about why I think the middle section of this movie sucks so much, Brad. And it is because this is where they start forcing these characters stories to overlap.

32:29 Randy Quaid meets Will Smith and Vivica A Fox meets the First Lady, and Jeff Goldblum and the President are already hanging out. And it's like, do we need every one of these groups of people to have multiple layers of interaction in each other's lives? Because it kind of just seems like we're doing Crash but with aliens for a while and that does not work. Like, I don't, I don't care about the human drama here. Like, aliens blow stuff up, we blow up the aliens. That's the that's needs to be the plot here. I was thinking like a is it New Year's Eve, the the movie where there's like 80 different stars in it and they all have overlapping lives? That that's kind of what I was thinking as I as I watch this. I was like, oh, it's a it's a action New Year, New Year's Eve. But crucially, with aliens.

33:18 With aliens, Aliens that if I'm being honest the the the inside aliens aren't great. The alien that kills all the people in the in the lab the. Exoskeleton. Right, one of the. Coolest designs, yes. And I think that if there's a scene that we could talk about, it is this scene where so Will Smith punches an alien in the head and it is unconscious for hours apparently. He's got a hell of a right. Hook until they get him down into the operating room and they are cutting off this like exoskeleton that the aliens use. And you start to see, you know, the fingers are moving and it's one of the great horror tropes of like you are trapped in a room with a thing that's going to kill everybody in the room. Like this is the doc ock in Spider Man 2 kind of a thing. And boy oh boy, the IT It is completely out of left field because the rest of the movie does not have this tone at all. But I will say it's still effective. Sure is, man.

34:18 And even like when the rest of the group comes to the lab and the lab is covered in smoke and you can't see anything, the cameras like slowly zooming and like pushing in on the on the window and I'm like, Oh yeah, one of the dead bodies is going to get shoved up against the window and it's going to happen right about now. Oh crap. It still gives you. Yeah. All right, man. I think we're in a good spot to press pause. This is a fun episode so far. I really love talking about this movie, but I'm ready to dive into more contentious ground. So let's talk a little bit about this. Will it pot still? What do you say I'm? Sorry, pot. Still pot. Still. I'm ready, Bob. Let's do it.

35:05 All right. So today we are checking out. Will it pot still reserve? Brad, I've already mentioned it a couple times. I've said that this is a contentious whiskey. I guess I'll just put it straight to you. Were you aware that this was a contentious whiskey and like, what do you know about it? I would say yes, I I know that the vibes on this whiskey are are really harsh. And when I say vibes, I mean like genuinely people's thoughts that this is something people either seem to really love or really hate. And I always had the impression that it was an expensive whiskey, and maybe that's because I had heard about it three or four years ago. I I mean, I'll spoil the value.

35:49 Not my score, but it's a it's about a $50 bottle of whiskey. Yeah, and it doesn't really did experience a spike during the the peak of the bourbon boom. But then there is enough ill will towards this whiskey out there that like it market corrected itself. It's like one of the few ones that has kind of come back down into a reasonable range. Yeah. And I I don't know, do you know if it's like really hard to find even though it's at 50 ish on the secondary? Yes or no. I mean, I I think that this is like as available as regular Buffalo Trace. OK. You know what I mean? Like it's kind of allocated, but not really. Yep. So this is from obviously the Willett distillery.

36:31 Willett started making this I believe back in 2008. It was originally introduced as a single barrel whiskey and then in 2011 or 2012 they kind of on on the hush hush swapped out the labels to say small batch. They said that at no point where the batch is any larger than 12 barrels, so it's a true small batch whiskey. This was not something that was being distilled by Willett because Willett didn't distill whiskey for a long, long time and so it was always a fun game people played to try to figure out where this whiskey came from. Most people thought it was from Heaven Hill. I do have it on very good authority, Brad, that this is actually being made 100% by the Willett Distillery now that they have their operations up and running and that it does in fact use a pot still in its distillation. So one of the big knocks on this whiskey, because if you've ever seen the bottles, the bottle of whiskey is shaped like a pot. Still, it is a very cool, albeit gimmicky bottle. Yeah, I I don't care if it's gimmicky. It's a really cool.

37:29 It's cool. Yeah. Like I I have nothing against it. I just for a long time people said we don't actually know if there's a pot still involved in the production of this whiskey or if they just put it in a bottle shaped like a pot still and then called it pot still whiskey. That's involving a pot still. It's a pot still replica. Made of glass? Sure. Yeah, made of glass that holds the whiskey. But again I can say as far as I know 2024 it is being 100% made by Willett and it it does use a pot still in the distillation process. So on that note, let me say this. It's 94 proof. We do not know the exact mash bill on it, but it's suspected to be will. It's weeded mash bill.

38:11 Brad, I'm pretty excited to dive into this. It's been years since I've tried this thing. Yeah, I I tried it at some point with, I believe, my friend who gave this to us, Wes. So thank you, Wes. Thanks, Wes. Yeah, what a guy. I'm excited as well. My notes on it honestly are very interesting. I I landed at an interesting place and I'm excited for us both to get there. For me, the nose was decent, it was satisfactory. It didn't blow me away. I got some vanilla cake, kind of like a a really dark Raspberry, and and then like I'm going to use a different phrase because I don't want to use this phrase.

38:54 I'll let you take over it. I do have a. Treatment. I'm going to call it Dusty Attic. That's that's the note I got on the nose. Overall, a decent nose. I'll give it a 7 out of 10. My first note, Brad, that I wrote down was the Will It freaking funk. Not just the will it funk. Dude, I don't know how they do it because, like, for so long they were sourcing this whiskey and now they're making it themselves and their whiskey still smells exactly the same. Like about season 6 or so. Season five, maybe. We finally pinpointed what the funk is, and it's not actually funk. It's like rose petal. There's a ton of rose on this and it's here, man. It's here in spades.

39:37 But there was also this really weird note that I got underneath it, and it was like burnt paper. It wasn't like char, it wasn't ash, it wasn't cigarette or tobacco or anything. It's like when you accidentally, like, catch a piece of paper on fire. There's a very specific smell to the way that burns. Is this a common occurrence for you, Bob? You know, listen, man, when I get top secret messages, you got to burn those things with fire. All your Mission Impossible messages that self destruct. So it was just a really weird thing to have underneath those layers of rose, and I couldn't tell if it was tipping me off to something bad coming. But in a vacuum, it wasn't a bad nose. It was just like, I'm going to take note, you know what I mean? So I'll give it a 7 out of 10 on the nose. The pallet here, I got a really interesting note of I I don't know if you've been overseas much, Bob, I haven't. But the one time I was, they had cherry juice in Ukraine, and it was incredible.

40:37 And I got a very distinct vibe of like a really fresh, juicy cherry juice. There was some Coca-Cola notes. There's a little bit of like a salted caramel. I got some some like really salty peanuts. All of that might make it sound like I liked this whiskey. I was just OK with it. I was too. I came, yeah, I came to a 6 1/2 out of 10 on the on the palate. I did too. Yeah. It's. Interesting and unique. I just don't know if I like it or not. I think the most controversial thing I'm going to say about this whiskey on this review is that almost every category was middle of the road for me. I neither loved it nor hated it.

41:19 And for a whiskey to be so divisive, I was really expecting super bold, prominent flavors. And for me, I'm actually kind of envious that you picked up on so much because you know, Brad, I I just got over a cold like a week ago and now I'm like Oh my gosh, should I be COVID testing because I didn't taste any of these things that Brad tasted. In fact, for me, I was like this has a surprising lack of flavor when compared to other Willit products. Like it was kind of non existent flavor wise at the front of my palate and it wasn't until the middle and the back part of my palate that I started picking up anything. It, you know, I feel like the mouthfeel and the experience of drinking. It was really pleasant and it drank like an expensive whiskey, like it. It grows really nicely.

42:04 It builds on the palate. There's good spice here. The alcohol is never harsh, but it like, it leaves a nice little layer of like a prickly effect when you go to swallow. But it just reminded me of Noah's Mill, which I love so much. But if you took all of the sweetness out of Noah's Mill, it had some char to it. It wasn't bitter, it was just kind of like kind of bland compared to other Willett products that I've had. On my second sip I got a little bit of like a almost like a blended Scotch kind of flavor. It definitely didn't taste like a weeded bourbon to me like at all. So I just gave it a 6 1/2 and then on the finish, like I said, it has a nice chest burn like a really good oak base.

42:44 It's perfectly fine and I think it would make a really good cocktail because it has everything you need like that a whiskey needs to announce itself with in a mixed drink, but just it doesn't have flavours to stand up on its own. It's almost like a super high quality mixer, so I gave it a 6 1/2 there as well. That's so funny, man on on my finish, the first note I took it, it took me a little bit to get to it, but it reminded me of like the egg white that we put in the whiskey sour. And not that I like ever, like just eat or drink. Just egg whites. But for some reason that's what I couldn't get out of my my brain. Like that specific texture of an egg white mixed in with your your whiskey sour.

43:31 That's what I was getting there. There was black pepper, there's tobacco. It got kind of ashy for me after it sat on my my palate for a little bit. I actually think I liked the finish better than anything else. I gave it a 7 1/2 on the finish. Balance wise, I give it a six out of 10 Bob. It's just such a weird mix of flavours and I don't think it's bad. It's just so strange I I don't know if I love it or hate it. I. I actually gave it a 7 1/2 on the balance I like, which is higher than any of the individual categories. But I think it's actually quite nicely balanced. It's just it's it's nicely balanced for what it is, which is a cocktail with a really good backbone, but or a cocktail, a whiskey with a really good backbone but with like no accoutrements like it. It is like a solid highish proof whiskey with no flavor. And it's kind of that throughout the whole experience I was like you know what if this is your thing, it does that pretty well. So that was a 7 1/2 for me.

44:40 And then we get to value. Now Brad, you've already kind of tipped your hand a little bit about value in the state of Ohio. This is selling for $57 a bottle. It's a little bit cheaper out of state like in a you know, non price controlled regions. At 57 this is probably going to be my lowest score. I think this is only like a 5 1/2 for me Brad, it's a cool bottle, but the whiskey inside of it, it's non age stated. It's not, it's not purported to be any older than like five years. Some people are arguing that it's like 8 to 10 year. I don't think that's true. And I just don't think that like at 94 proof that there's really anything that you're paying for here to justify 57 dollars outside of the bottle. Yeah, I I'm with you.

45:23 I I'm going to give it a 5 out of 10 actually for value at almost $60.00. There's just a lot of other things to spend your money on. I I mean I I will say like this is a fascinating whiskey. I I I think it's very interesting and it deserves some level of buzz around people loving and hating it. But overall like I'm coming to a 32 out of 50. Like it's not my favorite whiskey. It is not bad. It's well made. It's definitely not going to be everybody's cup of tea. If I had to guess, I would imagine that like 25 to 30% of people who drink this actually really like it. I'm at a 33 out of 50, so I'm really close to you. And for the second week in a row, I'm going to say by the Noah's Mill, which is almost the exact same price and a whiskey that I truly love and just water it down to 94 proof because I think it's better than this.

46:22 And so, like, you know, that doesn't sound like a ringing endorsement. We're coming to a 32.5 out of 50 or 65 out of 100. We're just below the 35 out of 50 threshold where we usually start recommending stuff. I'm not going to recommend this, but it's not because I'm opposed to it. You know what I mean? Like, I feel like people are going to see that we said, oh, we don't recommend will it pot still. And they'll be like, aha, I knew it, you know, but like, it's fine. It's a fine whiskey. I think the the big differentiation point for me is the price. Like if it was cheaper, I'd probably tip into the 35 range. Yeah, honestly, if it was $10 cheaper, like if this was like a 45 to $50 whiskey, I'd say yeah, this is a really unique and interesting whiskey for under $50.00. But 50 definitely is a wall when it comes to purchasing whiskey that I have to really like something to spend over half of $100 on it.

47:21 So yeah, I'm just going to go buy a bottle of Quinta Ruben or Wild Turkey rare breed at this point over something like this. All right, man. Well, we're going to leave Willett Pot still behind us. We're going to get back into talking about Independence Day, the greatest film ever made. What do you say? Obviously, yeah, I'm ready, dude. Let's get to it. All right, that was Willet Pot still reserved. Brad, I'm not going to do any fancy segways. I'm going to ask you this. Should we finish talking about the movie and then do 2 facts and a falsehood? Or should we keep the people in suspense and do our game? Let's do our game, Bob. They They deserve to to linger a little longer. All right.

48:02 Well, that means it is time for two facts and a falsehood. Brad is going to try to stump your ball. Two all right And what is wrong? 2 facts and a falsehood. 2 Facts and a Falsehood is the part of the show where Brad presents me with three items as fact about the making of this movie, one of which is a complete lie and fabrication. And I have to annihilate it the way that the aliens try to annihilate us in this film. Brad, I am sitting pretty. I I think I'm at like 6:00 and 2:00 on the season. Yeah, you you're nailing it, man. I don't. Also, how are we 8 movies in? Well, this is this is movie 9. Yeah, that's insane.

48:45 I know, man. It's crazy. I'm not really worried about whether I win or lose today, Brad. I am in a position of pompousness today. So. Pompousness. Pomposity. So hit me with your two facts and a falsehood. Fact #1. Filming took place in the summer of 1995, and unexpectedly, production was delayed for a few days when filming in the Los Angeles airport because it had a bomb threat from none other than the Unabomber Ted Kaczynski Fact #2. The production team came up with two primary designs for the large alien warships, and director Roland Emmerich liked them both so much that he decided to keep them, one becoming the massive warships scattered across the planets and the other becoming the mother ship that Will Smith and Jeff Goldblum had to fly into.

49:32 Fact #3 Will Smith's line while dragging the alien back to the base. What the hell is that Smell Was completely unscripted. The Great Salt Lake flats, where the scene was shot has an issue where when the wind is just right, it can kick up the smell of millions of decaying brine shrimp from the nearby lake. Brad, these are three really good facts and or made-up facts because they all sound pretty pretty reasonable. I I'm going to be honest with you dude. I think that the design of both the little alien fighter jets and the city wide size ships are really, really cool. I've always hated the design of the mothership. It looks like a big flee like it's just floating through space with his little legs.

50:19 I don't like it. So I kind of want #2 to be false just because I want to on that a little bit #3 see. I don't know. Did would Will Smith have been improvising? I don't know. Brad, you got me today. I got you, man. I'm going to say one is. Do you think that Ted Kaczynski was threatening the Los Angeles airport? I mean, I'm going to be surprised. He was threatening a lot of people. I think that one sounds the most plausible. I I think one is a fact just because it is like, why would you make up a fact about the Unabomber? It has nothing to do with this movie. So it's either two or three. And it just depends on did Will Smith improvise? I'm going to say I'm going to say two is the falsehood, Brad, But I think he might have gotten me today. Bob, you are on a hell of A roll like America in Independence Day.

51:18 You are firing on also. Oh, it was too. It was too Wow, that was the falsehood, man. Yeah, so apparently the lakes have all of these, like, brine shrimp that like live in the lakes. But as they die, they they decay into like the silt. And if the wind hits just wrong, it like just spreads this reeking smell. And Will Smith had no idea about it and he just, you know, on one of the takes as he's dragging this alien across across the salt flats, he just casually goes, what the hell is that smell like? As a more serious question to somebody.

52:01 And they're like, oh, this is perfect, Let's keep that in there. All right, man, let's get back into talking about the movie itself. So there's a fade in on July 4th after Mommy sleeping now, OK? And we're we're back at it. Everyone has been emotionally devastated. Jeff Goldblum is drinking himself into a stupor because he doesn't care anymore and the world's going to end And and then Judd Hirsch comes in and and says like, oh you're going to catch cold down there and and he goes, he goes, wait, say that again. I hate when characters do this but he does the say that again. What you're going to catch cold. He goes yes, like OK and and we are off on a mission to infect the light years traveling alien mothership with a virus from Windows 95.

52:52 Yep. And boy oh boy, if there is anything 90s about this movie, it is the idea that, you know, no one knows what antivirus software is yet. Definitely not the aliens. Definitely not the aliens. They don't need that stuff, man. So OK, I want to talk about that plot line and get your thoughts on that, because there's good stuff that happens on July 4th, but there's also like, look, it's a movie about aliens attacking Earth. And even I was like, this is implausible, you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's that element of you set your heroes up with an impossible task and then you give them a way to accomplish the task. The key in any film is whether it's, you know, Lord of the Rings, Frodo being able to throw the ring into the Into Mountain Doom.

53:40 You know, whether it's Star Wars them able to blow up the Death Star, Like the way in which they defeat the impossible odds has to feel plausible. Like like like it came about in this this moment of ingenuity and at the end of the day like to believe even that the initial premise they use radio communication that we could hack into is ridiculous. Like they they flat out say these aliens communicate through like sight like psychic means, and yet for some reason they're transmitting radio broadcasts and not only are they doing that, we can like reverse engineer it to destroy their Shields. OK, cut.

54:31 Oh OK yeah. These super psychic like world destroying aliens who have destroyed thousands of worlds beforehand. They also rely on radio technology. Got it? Sure. Yep. I mean, have you also considered that these are not Americans and so they're just not as intelligent as we are? That's true. I hadn't thought about that. I mean, that's the message of the film here, Brad. Although, like, wouldn't they have been the Americans of their original planet? I believe they're the British of their original planet, obviously. All right, here's another nitpick. Now that we're talking about the plausibility of this Alien movie, you know how, like, it always positions The ships always position themselves directly over their target, And the target is like, in the dead center of where the ship is, 'cause it has this laser beam that comes down at the end of the film. The ship has moved to, like, directly over this military base that all of our heroes are far underground in. And then they blow the ship up and the ship falls to Earth. Like, you're still, you're still very much trapped there, right? Like, I don't know.

55:35 How do you get out of that situation? No, they're totally fine. But don't think about it. I totally didn't think about it myself. That question never came up. Never came up one time. It's very obvious that they're going to be just fine. Honestly, as they blew it up the final time, I thought that they were going to do like some sort of like it just like implodes on itself and burns up into nothingness. But no, they they show it falling to the ground and I was like, hot what? OK, sure, why not. So the the climax of this movie is what I am going to refer to as a double Star Wars. And this is after a guy we follow on YouTube, Brad named Ryan George who does the pitch meetings. He had this extended thing in the Top Gun Maverick pitch meeting where he talks about how they have to do a Star Wars because the end of the movie is just, it's just A New Hope. And this movie we're doing a double Star Wars. We have Jeff Goldblum and Will Smith going into the mothership to upload a virus and they have to get back out and then blow the ship up.

56:40 And on Earth you have the president of the United States saying, hey, I'm going to go fly this mission to blow up this big citywide destroyer. And so they're doing a Star Wars 'cause they have to find, you know, the equivalent of, like, the vent hole from A New Hope. And it's freaking great, man. The end of the movie is so preposterous, and I love it so, so much. And it all kicks off when Bill Pullman has his presidential moment. And I had the text of this this speech pulled up. I'm not going to say it, but when my guy goes into, like second gear and he's like, you know, Independence Day, July 4th will no longer be an American holiday, but it will be a holiday where, like the whole world says.

57:24 And then he just kicks it up a notch and he does. We will not go quietly into the night. And I'm like, dude, I was like, yes, like I I have seen this movie 35 times and my wife is sitting across the room for me. She's like, I've never seen this. And I said you came in at the perfect time because America is about to kick so much ass. You don't need to know. Anything has happened previously and I realized halfway through this speech that it is so moving that I was like tearing up as an American. And my wife notices me having an emotional response to Bill Pullman's alien speech. And I'm be honest with you, I am not ashamed.

58:06 It is so good, Brad. Yeah, it's incredible. Like, as I was doing my research, for two facts and a falsehood, the the crew, weirdly this feels strange. They weren't actually instructed to applaud at the end of the speech. It was supposed to be like in the script. It was just a like go back to work, you know, maybe a little more energized. They actually just spontaneously burst into applause as the speech ended. And for good reason, because Bill Pullman was half dead throughout the film and he comes to freaking life and just delivers an incredible speech here. It's so good, and I love that at that part of the movie too. They're like, we don't have enough people to fly planes. Anyone who thinks they can fly can fly a plane now and then they like cut to the the crowd of people he's talking to and they look like it looks like the production team just went into like every bar in the area and pulled guys out. And but, like, it works so well for what they're trying to do because like that's what America looks like. Let's be honest here.

59:07 Like there's just scraggly looking dudes with beards. And then Bill Pullman gives them the speech and they they're all drunk and they all immediately burst into cheers. It's incredible. And Randy Quaid is picked a hell of a day to. Quit drinking. OK man. Before we get into our last segment of the day, I want you to give me 30 seconds on the last 30 minutes of the movie. How does it work for you? What holds up? What doesn't hold up? Is it the best part of the movie or? No, there's elements of it that are great. The the speech is great. I think the final shot of the alien ship getting blown up is great.

59:49 I I think that the tension of it as it like opens up and starts to shoot, it's it's giant laser beam is great. But overall, I think that they struggle a lot from the CG of the day for the fact that I I kept, and this was kind of my note throughout all of the technical aspects of the film. Every time they had a scene of like a spaceship attacking the the F sixteens or you know, getting into dog fights, whatever, I just kept thinking to myself, man, Star Wars did this better in 77, like like Return Return of the Jedi did this better and that was like over a decade before this.

1:00:33 And I think that was my big issue. I just don't think they did the fight scenes very well. And if you're gonna do it an alien versus human sci-fi film, you gotta nail the dog fighting and you you have to really nail the the feeling of terror as enemy alien ships fill the sky and I just don't think that they nailed that. So that's that's my biggest let down for the end of the film. You don't like it when Bill, when Bill Pullman says come on boys, let's plow the road and then they just start firing machine guns. It's great, dude, you. I just don't think you're a lover of cinema.

1:01:14 I think is what we're finding out today. I don't think I am. I hate it. That's why I've been doing this podcast for so long. All right, man. It's time for our last segment of the day, which we call. Let's make it a double. We're near the end of the episodes of Things Listening to the Film and Whiskey show. Let's favorite another film with this one, even if it's struggling. It's a final segment of the day. Now let's make it a double. Let's make it a double is the part of the show where we pick a movie to pair up with this one to make the perfect double feature. Brad, I have not given one second's thought to this, so I'm going to let you go first. I actually have what I think to be a absolute perfect pairing for this movie. It is another film that has preposterous battles, really terrible dialogue, many not memorable characters and just some kick ass fight scenes.

1:02:08 I am going to recommend 2013's Pacific Rim 'cause that would just be the most humans are the best and everybody else can go kick rocks movie pairing that I could imagine. I have absolutely no idea what to pair this movie with, I think. Yeah, I mean, do you want some recommendations? No, I think I'm going to go, and it's like a really lame one, but I'm going to go with Return of the King. I think that's like the obvious one here, because you get. Whoa, whoa, whoa. How is Return of the King the obvious? Fair. Here's how. Here's how It's obvious. It's obvious because there's like 2 movies that I think of that are also in the like Rousing the troops with a speech and it's Braveheart and it's this or and you know, it's Return of the King.

1:02:57 I don't really want to rewatch Braveheart anytime soon. It's fine. It's a fine movie. I will also say if I can give one really hot take, I think this is a better speech than William Wallace's speech in Braveheart. And here's why. William Wallace's speech is like maybe three sentences long. We just like the way he delivers. They may take our lives, but they will never take our freedom. Is a great line. Reading the speech as a whole, not persuasive. I'm not, you know, like if you break it down on a literary level, I think Bill Pullman wins the day. And that's why Aragorn gets my nod, because he does a great job with his speech. And also we get to watch, you know, horrific looking creatures fall at the hands of man.

1:03:42 And I'm, I'm cool with it, dude. So Return to the King is my pick. Anytime you have to start a sentence with, it's obvious, because it clearly isn't obvious. Yes, it's obvious to everyone but you, Brad I. Perhaps. Oh man, Bob, I I'm ready to give this movie a final score. I don't know if you're going to be happy with this. I liked this movie, but I very much so did not love this movie. I came to like a 6 1/2 out of 10 here. I think that's kind of like, objectively how good this movie is. I am both operating from a place of. I saw this as an American child in the 90s. Yeah.

1:04:25 You did. And also like, I kind of want to give it A7. I'm not going to give it a 7.5 to fudge the numbers here, but I I will give it a 7. Because last week we both gave Goldeneye A7. And like Goldeneye may or may not have more filmmaking merits than this movie, but I think, like, the action sequences are incredibly well done in this film. And I'm just being frank, I had a way better time watching this movie than I had watching Goldeneye. Like Goldeneye really had some serious whiplash tonally throughout the Yeah, but. Did this movie have a tank? I don't. I don't think this movie had a tank, Bob. That's true. They are at least each other's equivalent.

1:05:06 So I'm going to give this A7. You gave it a 6 1/2. That takes us to a 6.75 on what is known around the world as the greatest film ever made. So it's it's pretty pretty hot take from us today. Yeah, it's the the BFI top film sight and sounds it's it was at the number one of the is it the AFI? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, #1 dethroned. Citizen Kane. Yeah, it sure did. All right. We want to know what you think of Independence Day. Have you watched it as an adult? Have you watched it recently? Have you been able to take off your childhood child of the 90s glasses to watch this movie? You can find us on all of our social media accounts, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, TikTok, YouTube at Film Whiskey. Or you can jump onto the Discord. We are on there every single day talking to you guys, fans of the Film and Whiskey Podcast.

1:06:01 If you'd like to join the conversation, there is a link to our discord at the end of every single one of our show notes. Next week Brad, we are staying in the Will Smith camp to watch a movie that has really grown in people's estimations over recent years and crucially, a film that is like 98 minutes long and that is 1997's Men in Black. 98 falls within the 90 minute film, right? I think so. It's a rounding error. Let's go. Right. Join us for Men in Black next week. But until then, I'm Bob Book. I'm Brad G. And we'll see you next time.