How the Grinch Stole Christmas (2000) / Calumet Farms Citation 16-year Bourbon

0:00 In the Millennium year of 2000, director Ron Howard and star Jim Carrey gave the world a satirical look at modern Christmas through the lens of an old classic. In 2024, we try a bourbon that Brad, Are you ready for this? Oh, I'm ready. Is a real work horse. The film is How The Grinch Stole Christmas. The whiskey is Calumet Farms citation. And we'll review them both this is. The Film and Whiskey Podcast Welcome to the Film and Whiskey Podcast, where each week we review a classic movie and a glass of whiskey. I'm Bob Book.

1:00 I'm Brad G and today I am setting the over under on Bob's score for this movie at 4.5. I guess it'd be 4.75 since we're allowed to go in half increments. Hey you can go whatever you want when you set the over under. That's that that that is true. I'm going to set it at 4.75 folks. So if you want to take betting, we are now on draftkings.com each episode. Actually, you can just Venmo us your bet. Yes, there you go. We directly said odds. Of course, of course. So Brad, at the beginning of every episode, I say the phrase we review a classic movie and a glass of whiskey. Has that word been doing more heavy lifting that it is today? Because we are looking at not the actually classic 1960s short The Grinch.

1:55 We're looking at Ron Howard's. I I mean, like, I don't know what the word is. I don't want to call it abominable, but I want to call it like sensory overwhelming experience. The the year 2000s, the Grinch. Did you need to go see your therapist after you saw this movie, Bob? Man, I'll tell you what dude, Let's just let's set the stage here a little bit. I have been dreading this for weeks, Brad, because I remember this movie being like a little too much, even when I was a kid. But because you're a kid and and I grew up on in an era of Nickelodeon where everybody was slimming each other and everything else. I just see little little 10 year old Bob sitting with his arms crossed like his leg crossed over the other tapping. Yes, yes, like it was a little much. I mean, I can't say you're wrong. I would like to say that you're wrong, but. Your little sisters are over there. Like, wow, Grinch, what a great movie. And you're just like ruining everybody's Christmas. Let let me let me get to my point more quickly than I intended to.

3:05 I know I can be long winded, Brad. I think this is actually a really important historical document because I don't know that that future generations will be aware of like what it was like to consume media as children of the 90s. Like what were we being fed our media diet and Nickelodeon stuff? It was just there was so much overwhelming sensory experience. Everything was tangible. Everything was about getting slimed and the like, garish, really bright visual colors. And you know, I think this is like, this is born out of 1990s overbearing entertainment like this.

3:47 This is just as related to Nickelodeon as it is to like that crappy Godzilla remake that we've been referencing from the late 90s. It is the culmination of 1/2 decade of visual and auditory assaults on the senses. And I think that it's kind of like I want to put it in the museum, you know what I mean? Yeah, no, I was going to say if you want a shorter version than having to watch this movie, go on YouTube and just look up the old Sonic the Hedgehog ads for Sega and like, to me those are like peak 90s ridiculousness.

4:27 Like I like, I, I, I look back on those. I'm like, what? What did they think that they were doing? Like, why? Like, how did that attract people? But I I mean it did. I guess we spent money on these things. We obviously spent money on How the Grinch Stole Christmas Bob, because this was the was it the highest grossing movie of 2000? Yeah, so we've been going on domestic gross for every movie we've reviewed this season. Oh, and by the way, if this is your first episode, welcome into film and whiskey. We usually talk about Better Movies TM. That's our that's our slogan. You you do know that if there's somebody new to this episode, it's probably because they like. Love this movie and I am so, so sorry for what's about to happen.

5:08 Your first words to them are, we usually do better films than this one, The one that got your favorite movie? Yeah. So this season we are looking at high grossing films. So usually it's the highest grossing film from each year from 1988 to 2019. We have landed in the year 2000 where we are actually doing the highest grossing domestic film. I think it was only like sixth highest grossing worldwide. But people in America ate this up. And Brad, you're you're absolutely right, man. I think that if there's if this is really a spiritual cousin to any form of media, it's not even just like the TV and movies of the late 90s. It's the commercials. Yes.

5:50 Yeah. And. And I think that like one of the most generous things I can say about this movie is that everything's intentional. Like I don't think they decided, like, I think it would look cool if we did this and then they just made a movie where every single shot is a Dutch angle. Like it's doing this on purpose. And if I'm putting on my thinking cap, I think it's because Ron Howard, a very good director, was trying on purpose to mimic the advertisements and commercials of the late 90s to help under score the point of his movie, which is anti commercialism. Like it, It makes sense why he chose to do it. He definitely made choices.

6:31 The question is were those choices the appropriate choices and did they work? And Brad, I am very excited to hear your thoughts on that today. But before we get into that, it's time for our first segment of the day, which we call Brad explains. Brad's going to give us the movie plots with only 60 seconds ticking on the clock, so let's go ahead and hear your take with this little segment that we call. Brad explains. Brad Explains is the part of the podcast where Brad breaks down the plot of the movie that he has just seen often for the first time. The $1,000,000 question Right now, Brad, Is this your first time with Ron Howard's Grinch? It is not. No. I I did not see it as a child, as you would have imagined. I in fact, I never even watched Nickelodeon. I don't know if I've ever seen an actual episode of of Slime Time.

7:24 What? What was that show? Called Slime Time Live. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, never once saw a single episode of that. I did, however, watch this, probably in my college years. Oh, what am? I out of man. I I just want to spend the whole episode hearing about that, 'cause that seems like if there's any age to get introduced to this movie, that's like the worst possible age, 'cause you're not like, you're not old enough to have your own kids yet, but you weren't. You have no nostalgia for it, you know what I mean? Like I'm. Fascinated. I think it. I think it actually hit well in the college years because we're all kind of idiots when we're in college and we think that stupid stuff is funny. And so I remember walking away from it thinking like, Oh yeah, like that was pretty funny.

8:12 I think that was my take away, like B minus maybe AC plus that was kind of funny. Jim Carrey is a is a unique talent that that probably would have been my take away. About four or five years later, I had a friend who it's like one of his favorite movies of all time. And so I watched it with him and enjoyed how much he enjoyed the film. And then I watched it for this viewing, Bob. You're such a good friend. I dude, I love my friends. I am very kind to them. Especially you, Bob. I was going to say in terms of Jim Carrey movies that Brad things are not that great.

8:53 It does blow my mind that you gave Eternal Sunshine a 2 1/2 out of 10 and are primed to give this movie a much higher score. Oh. My gosh dude. Easily higher than the eternal sunshine. I need new friends. All right, Brad, So this was not your first time seeing the movie, folks. It's the Grinch. I don't really know what there is to spoil here, but spoiler alert, Brad's going to break down the plot of the movie. You have one minute on the clock, Brad, and go. All right, so imagine the 1950s Grinch. But instead, the Grinch wants to bone one of the main Who's in Whoville?

9:34 And like, that's all you really need to know, folks. That's the kind of movie we're watching. The end. Is that a good? Yeah, absolutely. This is just like a deeply mean, ugly, horny movie. And when I say ugly, like, it is visually very ugly movie, but it's also just like it truly does embody like the late 90s and the early 2000s in terms of what we put on screen. Like the values that we A pretended to have but B actually had like the objectification of women, the like, the weird, violent like children.

10:16 Like, it's just a really great encapsulation of pre 911. But post late 90s I don't. I'd like this. This might be the most important movie of the last five years. We've talked about Brad. Baba, I feel like you're just going to continue to compliment how, like unique to its era this film is to like cushion the 2.5 you're going to give it at the end. Of the what if I end up talking myself into like this Is an absurdist masterpiece 8.5 out of 10. Bob, let's be really honest. This is an absurd absurdist masterpiece.

10:57 I mean, it's absurd. I don't. I don't. Know if it makes it a good movie. But. It like it's a masterpiece of what Ron Howard is setting out to do. Yeah, OK, let's, let's talk a little bit about Ron Howard as a director. I have gone on my soapbox many times for Ron Howard because I think that like Clint Eastwood and like Steven Spielberg, he he often champions the everyman, but his direction is the most kind of muted of the three of them. Like, you can't really. There's not as much of A directorial signature as, you know, like Spielberg. You can always tell when you're watching a Spielberg movie. Every once in a while, Ron Howard will do something that is just way outside of his wheelhouse.

11:37 Like, this is the guy that made multiple Da Vinci Code movies. And you forget like, oh, he made those Da Vinci Code movies. That doesn't seem like a Ron Howard movie. And then you remember, Oh yeah, he made like one of the worst Star Wars movies ever. That was also Ron Howard. So he just, every now and then he's like, I'm gonna test the waters elsewhere and it almost never works out for my guy. Which? Which Star Wars movie did he make? He did solo. Oh, that. That was Ron Howard. Well, that, I mean that's he only gets half credit for that 'cause it was like almost made and then they pulled the directors off of it and Ron Howard was brought in to like try to salvage it. So you know, like, I don't blame him for that one. He did not unsalvageable.

12:20 I as a Star Wars fan, I will tell you I've never seen Solo. It's just, it's not even, like, bad, bad. It's just like the most boring and forgettable move As you're watching it, you're like, Oh yeah, I forgot, this is about Han Solo, right? Like, like, every, every scene. Anyway, all that to say, Brad, I like one of my boldest claims today is going to be, I think this is like the most directing Ron Howard has ever done in a movie. Like, he's really trying for an aesthetic here. I don't know what you would even call what he's trying to go for here, but it's very obvious that he is making big choices. I I think that what he's going for is trying to turn a children's like animated cartoon book into a message of morality that wasn't in the original book and it and it becomes something vastly different. Now here's the thing, Bob.

13:22 Do you feel like the consumeristic urge that has dominated Christmas is good? I I I do not. I will go on record and say no. So what's your problem with this movie then, man, he's he's just, he's on your side. He's on your team, Bob. That's it, man. That's that's how movies work, right? Like, that's it. If we agree with the central message of the movie, then the movie must be good. Yeah, that we just did an episode, Brad, about the Christian movie industrial complex. And every single Christian movie is. Is good based on our criteria and logic, yeah. So I I think I wanted to point that out to say like both of us agree with the underlying message of this film.

14:03 Like like we're not going to sit here and lambast him for trying to make a movie about, hey, like the spirit of Christmas is probably something other than buying a million gifts. Like what? Like one of my favorite scenes of the film is when Cindy Lou who has the giant thing of Christmas presents near the start of the film and and he pulls out the one from the middle to see her face which is a great little like frame within A-frame. And and she just really quietly goes, I don't know if this is what Christmas is all about, Daddy. And it's the most sweet, precious little moment of the film. And it might be one of the only quiet moments of the film. And I loved it.

14:45 Yeah. And so, man, I think, Brad, how I'd like the first half of this episode to go is because we're already diving into kind of the analysis part of it. My two big problems with this movie are interrelated. The first one is the difficulties of adapting a story that is meant to be short into an almost two hour movie and and the, you know, the additions that they have to make to fill out the runtime and whether those are successful or not. And then B, as a result of that, I feel like the, the underlying message of the movie is kind of similar, but the characterization is completely different.

15:25 Like the who's in the short film are completely different than the who's in this movie. And I think they're trying to kind of update it for, you know, quote UN quote modern times. But I I do feel like it kind of undermines the point of the movie, the way that they portray these characters. So I don't know if you're OK with it. Let's kind of just go through both of those points. And I want to start with an episode we released multiple Christmases ago where we had a debate about which short animated film was better for Christmas time, Charlie Brown, Christmas or The Grinch. What an episode. Now you have very famously said, A, that you love Charlie Brown Christmas, and B, the Grinch has never really worked for you, the original Grinch cartoon and and part of your reasoning, as I recall, was that you just don't really like the the animation style of Doctor Seuss. Which is not.

16:17 Totally. Just don't. Just don't. Like is a very very light encapsulation of the hatred. Really. It's that bad. Oh, I I think it is one of the most hideous animation styles I've ever seen in my life. Interesting. OK. I didn't realize it was that. I thought it was more just like, yeah, I don't care for it, you know? Oh no, I like and and I'm not the animators for the Christmas special. I I'm not blaming them. I hate Doctor Seuss's art style. Got it. Period. I think it's horrendous. The animators did a great job of of mimicking it and putting it to screen. I think it's terrible. OK. All right.

16:59 We got that out off your chest. We're good. We could move past that. I I do want to ask, though. So you don't really care for that special, but like, I mean you have a good grasp on the way that it's told and the underlying message of it. Yeah. What do you think about the way that they quote UN quote fleshed out the story for the two hour version like because to me, Brad, when I think about this story like it is, it is a parable. That almost the same way that Charlie Brown Christmas is like a parable. It's just a very short. It's not supposed to have a lot of context. You're not supposed to know why the Grinch hates the who's. He just does.

17:40 He's a guy who hates the who's and the who's love Christmas and to give him the back story that they give him in this movie and and all the things they flesh out, it's like you tried to make the impact of the parable better by giving it more context, but in doing so you actually rob it of all of its power. Jesus's parables in the New Testament, you know, my guy knew what he was doing. If those, if those parables were, you know, multiple chapters long, they would lack the rhetorical power. So like, I guess just just on like a rhetoric level, Brad, like did they ruin it here? Honestly, Bob, my curiosity is so obviously your opinion is that yes, they did ruin it. I guess I'll speak to that point. I don't think that they ruin necessarily the moral of the story with most of the characterization. Like I, I I honestly kind of like the idea of the Grinch being a part of the society and then being rejected because of his skin color and his just robust facial hair. If, if we can put it that way, like none of that bothers me. I think that the only characterization that just feels so far out of left field is how deeply what What's her name? Martha May something.

19:13 Oh, yeah, yeah. Christine Baranski. Wants to have sex with the grin. I mean, like, bad dude like. So bad. It's so weird. And like if they literally just fully cut that piece out of the story, or like not even cut it out of the story. It's just poorly directed. Like, I I like that he thought that this girl was cute. Like that is so relatable to be somewhat of a loser in your class, at least self perceived that way and think that the cute girl in the class might ever like you like that. Like that's a classic storyline that we can all relate to. It gets weird when they become adults and I and I think that a different director might have done a better job with it, but it it's that's the primary point for me that kind of muddles the entire message of the original Grinch. Yeah, the way I see it, they add 2 crucial things to fill out the runtime, #1 is they they try to answer the question of like why does the Grinch hate Christmas slash the who's and the 2nd is like they try to they try to add context to the who's themselves. So like instead of in the original version. Like, they are not really caught up in consumerism in this version.

20:37 They have to overcome their own consumerism. Like that's their obstacle to overcome. And it's I I think they both have their own flaws. But the biggest flaw of the movie for me is like those two stories are kind of happening separate from each other. So like the Grinch hates Christmas, but only as an extension of the who's loving it. Like, he doesn't really hate Christmas so much as he hates the who's. And he had a really traumatic experience happen to him around Christmas. But when they have this flashback and they show that the Grinch was, like, absolutely bullied and humiliated by grown women and children and then forced into exile as a small child, Like, what is actually happening there has nothing to do with the consumeristic attitude of the who's.

21:25 It's like the Who's are awful, awful people, and their consumerism is only one facet of how they're awful. And so the end of the movie attempts to fix this by them overcoming their consumeristic impulses. But like, they don't fix anything else. Like, they're still racist. They're still like, they're just horrible, horrible people. And I think that's like, that's the thing that pisses me off, is like, it tries to manipulate you into thinking like, oh, they've overcome this one thing. So now we can, like, cheer for them. Absolutely not. Like I want. I want the Grinch to go Django Unchained on this entire village. I would like to see an absolute bloodbath at the end of this movie, because those people deserve it more than anyone else.

22:14 How the Grinch stole Christmas Django Edition I. Don't know man, am I like am I far off in my assessment here? I feel like they they tried to patch up a whole host of awful sinful things these people do by like having them fix one sinful thing they do. Sure, I I think that the the problem here is that Ron took things. He allowed it to go too far. It is Ron's fault. It's all Ron's fault. It is Ron's fault. Like he and I say that because he is the one who chose the the general timbre of the film. Like like the the sound and the the garishness that we talked about earlier.

22:58 Everything is so over the top in order to portray Americans ridiculous consumption habits. But he never pulls the reins in on any other elements of it. And so I think that you end up with the Grinch being the most over the top Grinch you will ever see in your life, and the who's being the most over the top who's and the storyline being the most over the top storyline. Yeah. And it undermines exactly what they're trying to say, 'cause like, you know, even if we, if we grant him that, like, the way he's shooting this movie is supposed to be a reflection of the commercialism of the 90s or whatever. It's not like they stopped doing it at any point in the movie.

23:38 Like the movie is a giant commercial based on the way they shot it. So I'm with you, man. Like it. It does like it. It seems like it's trying to make points, but then it's undermining its own points. Also it it undermines it in a very simple way, like that isn't even done over the top. Like at this point the movie's calmed down some. But like the whole point of the movie is like we don't need presence, we just need each other, right? Kindness, human human goodness and and decency. But but they still get the presence at the end of the movie. So this brings me like the the. Go ahead, go ahead. No, I was just going to say like they still end up with the thing that they.

24:19 Should not they fix nothing about themselves? These people suck. Here's the curiosity for me. This is this is more general Bob. A few, not even a few weeks ago. Last week we watched The Phantom Menace and I I specifically remember you saying, man, why didn't they just give us a a 10 minute background on Qui Gon Jinn or Obi Wan or Darth Maul. And here we have one of your favorite movies, the The Grinch getting a little bit of background and and it is not your cup of tea. It is not So what's so? So what gives? How? How do we reconcile these two two things, Bob? It's a good question, Brad, and I think the real answer is that I am just not a consistent person. But my my actual answer is going to be like I really do just think this story is a 30 minute story. Like if you read the book to your child, it will take you about 30 minutes.

25:16 If you watch the 30 minute version, it takes you guess how long 30 minutes to get through it. It's a perfectly told story in 30 minutes and trying to stretch it out to two hours is just a it's a bad idea. Like they they made another Grinch movie and I think 2018, an animated one with Benedict Cumberbatch voicing the Grinch. And it's also not good because like guess what, you are just padding the runtime when even if it's an hour and a half long, you're putting an hour of filler into this story. So like I wanted more Qui Gon because I feel like The Phantom Menace is a 2 hour story, you know, actually 2 hour plus, right? But like, it needs to be filled out even more because it's being told on this big canvas, whereas the Grinch is like it is intended to be a very simple story and it doesn't need the context that they're trying to, like, force on to it. Now I I will say Bob in in defense of my boy Ronnie. This is an hour and 4040 hour and 44 minute movie. And I I looked when the credits came up and it was at an hour and 38 minutes, sure.

26:27 So this is very nearly a 90 minute film, yeah. And and I will still say 60 minutes. Too long, Brad. You you were you would prefer the 38 minutes I. Sure would. Where no one's horny like, very, very importantly, the. Joke's on you. That's the 38 minutes, the R rated version, just the horny parts. OK. So I want to talk a little bit about the, the second part of what I was saying, which is like the the characterizations changing. And Brad, you know, I do think that at the end of the day, the message is Christmas isn't about consumerism. Like we we reached that conclusion when we were talking about Charlie Brown. Like they both kind of say the same thing. But what I really love about the original Grinch is that the way they get to that point is that if you really think about the Grinch, it's that he's been misunderstanding them the whole time.

27:24 Like, he thinks like he he, you know, he's looking down at Whoville and he's like, I can't stand all the noise from their toys. And I I just hate that they're making all this cacophony. So what am I going to do? I'm going to go steal it all from them because in his mind, he's thinking they make lots of noise with this. So they must love these things. And I hate when they gather around and sing. I just hate it. I'm going to take it all away from them and then they'll be sad. And the big reveal is like presents are fine, but they never cared about the presents to begin with. And it's when he hears them singing in the absence of their stuff that he has a change of heart. It's a really beautiful story. And so, like it's anti consumerist, but it's anti consumerist because the Grinch misunderstood them.

28:09 Whereas in this movie they freaking suck. And he's right about them the whole time. And so his his plan to to get back at them is to steal all their stuff. But it's more of a revenge story than anything. And so at the end of the movie, like they, I guess they have a change of heart, but they decide like, we don't want to be sucky anymore, so let's embrace the spirit of being together. But it completely changes the calculus of the Grinch needing to have a change of heart. Like he had a change of heart in the first one because he had fundamentally misunderstood them to begin with. And in this movie, they're the ones misunderstanding the Grinch. And I just don't feel like it sticks that landing. Like it tries to arrive at the same place, but it completely flips the characterization of the who's and the Grinch to try to do it.

28:59 And I just don't feel like it works as well. And I I'd like to hear your thoughts because you're a guy that doesn't like the Grinch anyway, so it probably doesn't matter to you. But like, I mean, do you do you know what I'm getting at here? Oh 100% can can I get Biblical here for a second Bob? Like the the essence of being a Christian in a lot of ways is summed up by Jesus when he talks about like the world will know you Christians by the love that you have for one another And and this is in the middle of a passage where he's talking about like leaving them and and darkness and suffering. And the implication is when things are really terrible and life is insanely difficult, which as we all know, happens a lot, you will be known by the love that you have for one another.

29:51 And I think that's kind of what the original Grinch is getting at, right? Like when things are really bad, when you're suffering, quote UN quote, and it's a children's story, so suffering equals losing your toys. What do we, what do we recognize? Oh wow, they actually love each other. And it's the recognizing of that that converts the Grinch, if you, if you'll allow the metaphor to continue in this one, Ron recognizes like one or two elements of that and is like, but also I hate commercialism and we're just going to focus on that like we're just going to focus on the consumerism and and how much I hate that.

30:35 And it's been so in his face for about 20 years now. Like 80s and 90s are not known for their subdued nature. And so it would make sense that he would want to mock the last 20 years by making the most ridiculous version of it possible. And so I I I think that's why to me, Bob, I almost just consider them completely separate films. And well, and I, you know, I'm, I'm glad you said that, 'cause you kind of have to. Like you can't, you can't think of them the same because they are two completely different movies that are trying to make. Like I said, they're trying to make the same point, but they're really not.

31:17 They're making two completely separate points from each other as well. Brad, I know Before we go any further, I don't, I won't talk about the old Grinch anymore because you've provided a good segue out of it. But I have to say, what I love about the old Grinch is that we don't even know what the Grinch's relationship is with Whoville. Like, we don't know if they've ever seen him before. He just hates them. He just lives on a mountain and hates these people and their first exposure to him may be him stealing their stuff. It would explain why Cindy Lou, who doesn't recognize him and thinks that he's Santa Claus and buys all buys into all his lies. Because they are such a naive and welcoming people.

31:59 And when this dude has his change of heart after seeing them singing around their tree and he speeds down the mountain, it's so crudely animated, 'cause they're like standing in a circle and they they open the circle up for the Grinch to come in, but they animate it like the people are like a hinge door and they just like swing open and let him in. It's such a great picture of like who these people are. They they never cared about the toys, they never cared about the stuff. The at their core they're like a beautiful, welcoming people. And the moment that he turns and comes to them, they welcome him with open arms, and they let him carve the freaking roast beast. And in this movie, like, the Grinch comes riding into town. And the only reason that they welcome him is because they're like, he's doing to us what we've been doing to him for 50 years.

32:49 Like, look what we have wrought. And then they're like, maybe we shouldn't suck so much. And again, like, that's an effective way to tell a story. It is not the Grinch. This thing is an abomination to grinches everywhere. Burn. Bob, I am gonna take the How the Grinch Stole Christmas to the finals of our bracket at the end of the. Year just so I can burn it. No, just so that it lives on forever and is never burnt. All right, Brad, we, we have done all the analysis on this movie and we haven't talked about performances at all, but I think this is a good place for us to stop. Let's drink some whiskey. We'll come back and we'll talk about Ronnie and Jimmy and all the people involved in this movie. What do you say?

33:33 Let's get to it, man. Although I'm not sure if there's anybody else involved that Jim Carrey. All right, everybody, today we are drinking Calumet 16 year Citation. Now, Bob, I I don't know a ton about Calumet Farms, but I do know that they have a special limited release series that that honestly comes out pretty sporadically and they they're naming them these special releases after the the different Triple Crown winners. Is that correct? Yeah, I don't.

34:14 I I don't remember if it's actually just Triple Crown winners or if it's just like famous race horses. But you know, Citation is one of the most legendary horses to ever win the Triple Crown. If you drive through Lexington, like there is a Citation Road or Citation Blvd. I'm getting nerdy now Brad. But anyway, Calumet Farms, Brad, we had a listener right into us and in fact it was our friend Wes who provided these Calumet samples to us to correct us on what we know or don't know about Calumet. So last week I called Calumet Farms a non distilling producer, which is true. I said that they were sourcing their whiskey from Western Spirits which I don't know very much about and Wes corrected me to say that Western Spirits is also a non distilling producer. So this is actually Barton Whiskey that is being aged at a warehouse owned by Western Spirits and Calumet is just a brand that Western Spirits puts out. So sure fine this is still a non distilling producer that is giving us what we now know to be Barton Juice. So Brad, this particular whiskey is a 16 year old from their single rack, Black Label.

35:28 We talked about this a little bit last week. They pull all these whiskeys from one rack in the Rick house. They say that it is the optimal conditions. I think they're they're never more than like 19 barrels in a blend and this is the oldest one we've had by a lot. Brad, this is 16 years old. I'm a little worried, 'cause even last week at 14 years old, I think that thing was approaching being over oaked. Yeah, that I've not found many 12 plus bourbons that survive. The oaking. The oaking. That sounds like a horror movie. The the opening. All right, we are We're sitting at 106 proof. Today we are at 74% corn, 18% rye, 8% malted barley. Brad, let's freaking drink this thing. What are you picking up on the nose? This is a really pleasant nose.

36:25 It it doesn't stand out in any powerful ways, but it gives me some really nice vanilla. There's caramel it, it's very like a like a rich cream cheese and there's a little bit of like a sweet mint going on that I that I I really like. It's very pleasant. I give it an 8 out of 10 here on the nose. I'm really close to you because I actually think your notes are right on. But that minty note, I think sometimes tips into smelling like straight ethanol, almost like rubbing alcohol. And so I can't tell from moment to moment. Like, is this just really herbaceous or is it, like, chemically almost? And so that's the only thing is, I'm, I'm a little wary of this alcohol note.

37:08 Like, is it going to really kick me in the mouth when I take a sip here? It's pleasant. I'm going to give it a 7.5 on the nose. Yeah, I was. I don't think it's the Mint note that's giving you that. I think it's the ethanol. Yes, thank you. Just just a little correction on the pallet here. The first note that I have is, wow, that's oaky. Like there is a lot of oak going on here. Once you kind of push past that with the 2nd and 3rd sip, there's some cocoa powder. The vanilla continues through. I got like a nice like Raisin type of vibe. It's got a little bit of a coffee, ground coffee smell to it.

37:51 I came down a little bit on the pallet. I'll give it a 7 out of 10 here. It's it's good product. It should be like 12 or 13 years, not 16. Brad, I'm in a very interesting position right now because you sound like Bob Book right now. You sound like a guy who, I'm not saying you're lying about your position or even couching it in nice things, but you're like, you know, if you think about this and I'm going to be the Brad G here because you said the words, hey, once you push past the first sip and give it a second and third sip, it gets better. Brad G would look me in the eye and say Bob, you shouldn't have to give it 3 sips to think that it's a good whiskey.

38:32 Yeah, that's true. So. I'm going to be the Brad G here, so it's too oaky. It just is. And that first sip, dude, like, it was the front of my palate. And then you said, Oh yeah, it's on the front of your palate. And I was like, OK, hopefully I will push through this all the way through oak, oak, oak. And it's like you get just the faintest glimmer of sweetness. And then it is swallowed up once again by just straight, woody notes. It's it's certainly something, man. I'm sure there are people out here who love their whiskey to taste like this. This is just not, you know, I like my decadent rich whiskeys. This is not that, man. I'm going to give it a 5 1/2 on the taste. Wow.

39:16 Yeah, I well, I'll, I'll just go on to the finish. For the finish, I'm at a 7 1/2 I I think that the oak continues through very strong as you said. I get a little bit of black pepper, a little bit of leather. It has some some of those kind of classic bourbon finishing notes that you would have from a more heavily oaked W7 and a half decent finish on a on a decent whiskey. I'm going to give it a 7 1/2 too, and I'm going to, you know, I'm going to pull a Bob book. Now, when we were at the New York Whiskey competition, Brad, we got one sip to judge these things. That's it. I mean, like if you really wanted to take a second sip, you would.

40:00 But we're drinking like 100 samples a day. So you're you're pretty much taking your notes based off of 1 sip. You are absolutely correct in that the 2nd and 3rd sip on this are significantly better, much more caramel, much more brown sugar here. And that's going to bump my finish score up a little bit. Because when I think about like a finish, I'm I'm thinking about the lasting impact of the whiskey. And I include like a second sip in that I yeah, I'm going to give it a 7 1/2 here, but my balance score I can't pin down dude, because this is like, this was a wild ride. Yeah, I I I think that it's a wild ride and not in a great way. So I'm going to put my balance score at a 7 out of 10 there. There's a little bit of complexity here, enough for me to enjoy it.

40:46 It's just so heavily oaked that I I can't go any higher than A7. Man, I just. I want to use this in like an Infinity bottle. I feel like this could give so much character to a bigger bottle of whiskey. Like you add these two oz and it's like a cheat code to just making your stuff more complex. But it almost reminds me of you know how they make poor man's Pappy where you blend Weller Antique and Weller 12 year and we've always said the antique is like all the flavor and the 12 year is all the spice and character. This is like that. This is like the Weller 12 of the Calumet we've had so far, Brad. Yeah, I'm going to give it a 6 1/2 on balance and I don't even know what this costs.

41:33 Brad, what do you what's the value on this? Baba, I'm seeing it for $150.00 online and that's the only one I can see it's. At this point it is a very hard to find bourbon. Yeah, I'm seeing a review from back in 2022 when it came out at 138 dollars then. So it doesn't seem like it's been marked up that much. It was just expensive to begin with. Yep. I don't think this is a poorly made whiskey. Like, I think this is a really great example of a 16 year old bourbon. I just don't like 16 year old bourbon now like it's sourced. It's from a premium brand. Everything's always going to be expensive. Like, I I don't know, Brad, that I think $138 is actually exorbitant for this.

42:20 Do you? Triple digits is tough. Man, like, I wouldn't pay for this, 'cause I don't like it. But if this is what you're looking for, I don't think this is like gouging people. Like if this was called Weller 16, it would, you know, it'd be on the secondary market for $400.00. You know what I mean? Yeah. I think that this is like a 70 to $90.00 whiskey. I think 110 isn't gouging. I think anything much above that is. All right, so let's say 90 is where it should be, so that they're charging like at least $4050 more than it should be.

43:02 I'm still going to give this like a six out of 10 on value. I don't like it, but I don't think. I think you could do worse. I think there's much, much poorer decisions you can make in terms of value on whiskeys. Yeah, yes, I would agree with that. I'll give it a 3 1/2. I I just, I don't think this is a good value at 140 bucks. Man that's a lot of money. And you could go buy so many other whiskeys. Like so many other whiskeys, Bob. That is like 7 bottles of Rebel 100 tell me you could get.

43:44 So drunk. All right, man, I am coming out to a 33 out of 50, which is higher than I thought. But again, I think this is a pretty well made whiskey, so I'm OK with it. Where are you at? Would you, would you guess that we're at the exact same score? I I want that to be exactly how we shake out on this movie, too, Brad. Yes, All right. Now, would you recommend This is the question? If you're not paying for it I like I would say it is worth a pour. Maybe if you could find a pour for like 1520 bucks and like you know what you're getting into, I'd say sure. Maybe try this, I I would not recommend a bottle. What do you think this would go well with? Like if we're food pairing?

44:32 Because, you know, like Lagavulin goes really well to steak because we've been talking about this because like, the steak almost takes away the salinity of the Lagavulin, yes, but you get the smoke a little bit too. So like this, I don't like. I don't know this would go well with a steak, but it definitely like you couldn't drink this with like fish or chicken. It's too oaky, like it needs something with a ton of flavour. I don't think it's a dessert bourbon. Like it's got to be beef, right? No, it's not beef. This has to go with like an insanely long smoked pulled pork. Like a like a brisket maybe. I I think that this this has to go with just the juiciest pulled pork you've ever had in your that. Makes sense because of so there's so much oak like it have to be something smoked.

45:22 Yeah. All right. Well, there you go folks. Get yourself a brisket and a bottle of Calumet 16. Brad, let's get back into talking about the Grinch. What do you say? Let's get to it. All right, everybody. That was Calumet 16 year citation of whiskey. That will just cost you too much money, Bob. Yep. You know it's not going to cost you any money at all. What's that, Brad? 2 facts and a falsehood, Brad. Is going to try to stump your ball. 2 all right And what is wrong? 2 facts and a falsehood. 2 Facts and a Falsehood is the part of the podcast where Brad presents me with three items as fact about the making of this movie, one of which he has just completely made-up and I have to guess which one that is.

46:16 Brad, I am sitting at 9:00 and 4:00 on the season. You're rocking it, man. Now one of those losses is is doubled because Noah could tell or was it Noah? I think it was Noah. Somebody steered me wrong, they done me wrong, and I took on an extra L So the numbers don't add up to the number of episodes in our season, but that's because we have crazy rules. What's the? What's the line in? Whose Line is It Anyways? The the games are made-up and the points don't matter. Yeah, the points don't matter. That's that's all 100% what this is, man. All right, hit me with the 2 facts and a falsehood, Brad. Fact #1. Jim Carrey was suggested for the title role by Audrey Geisel, the widow of Doctor Seuss, who controlled the rights to the book. She also suggested Jack Nicholson, Dustin Hoffman and Robin Williams.

47:05 Fact #2, Jim Carrey would often smoke in order to cope with the stress caused by the intense makeup process. However, his as his suit was covered in yak hair, he had to use a very long cigarette holder in order to avoid a potential fire hazard. Fact #3, the role of Max the dog was auditioned for by 47 different pooches with the winning the the final winning dog being Chip, a mixed breed 3 year old puppy. These are good, man. I actually have no idea. So fact number one is interesting because I read enough about the making of the movie that I know that when they first started pitching the rights to the story, Doctor Seuss's widow stipulated like it has to be somebody on the level of a Jack Nicholson or a Dustin Hoffman. In terms of like, I don't know what the term is, you know, popularity, purchasing power.

48:06 Right, she she was greedy, is what you're saying. No, she just, well, I guess so. But like, you know, I think this movie is very much like the weird 2000 commercialized version of, like, Tim Burton's Batman. So it kind of makes sense that, like, you'd want Jack Nicholson to be the star, like the way that he was the Joker. She wanted somebody to be the Grinch. Now, does that mean that she actually suggested Jack Nicholson? I don't know. Or did the person who wrote that IMDb thing understand exactly what she was saying? I don't know. Fact #2 sounds funny just because I could like the Grinch with a long cigarette holder. Just seems like the that seems like the perfect thing to put in the Grinch's hand with those long fingers and stuff. Fact #3, I just don't care.

48:52 Like I don't care how many pooches they auditioned, so that could be made-up. I truly do not care. Screw the dog, yeah. Forget that dog. Forget that dog. Come on, man. Max is a very cute dog. Yep. Hey, can I tell you something else? Yeah, Max is probably dead by now. Yeah, he probably. Is that dog's dead? All right, so fact #1. That was that man. Chew, I'm gonna say fact number one is the falsehood just on that technicality, but I think I'm wrong. You are in fact wrong. Which one was it?

49:35 It was #3 was the falsehood. Yeah, see, here's the thing. I don't care. That's that's what I need to do more often, right? Falsehoods that you just don't give a rip about. Like, I actually, I really like dogs. I I just like, you know? Convince me, Bob. How it like how am I ever to care about like the number of dogs that they what. So what was false about it? Did you just make it completely up or? There was a fact on IMDb about there being like 3 different dogs that played Max and I think that they were mixed breed, but like that there was nothing about the name of the dog or how many different dogs auditioned or anything like that. I didn't even think about the possibility that there was more than one dog.

50:21 It's like the Olsen twins on Full House. Yeah, I thought about that when I wrote the fact I was like, I feel like if I write something about there being multiple dogs, you're going to sniff that out more than if I just say there was one. I would sniff it out. Yeah, See what I did there? All right, man, you've got me at 9:00 and 5:00 on the season now. Still got a little bit of cushion, but things are getting dicey here. Brad, let's talk not about the dog in the movie, but let's talk about The Grinch himself, Jim Carrey. Here's the thing, man. You could write the article about this movie that's like, oh, the Grinch is such a relic of its time, like Bob Book said, and it's because of this crazy, unhinged performance by Jim Carrey.

51:04 I actually think Jim Carrey's performance makes so much sense in the context of this movie and in fact is less crazy and wild than the filmmaking going on around him. Like it seems like a very grounded performance and he's under so much make up that you have to go that big or else it would seem like a really flat performance. The fact that he's able to emote and move around as much as he is, it's kind of a minor miracle. Like I think it's a really, really good performance. Brad. I'm 100% with you, man. And. And can I take a second just to extol the virtues of practical effects like this is a hell of a costume. Oh my gosh.

51:49 Very famously drove Jim Carrey insane. The costume director who put him into it every day nearly quit because Carrie was so difficult to work with. Like, like, it's almost legendary how terrible of a costume it was to get on. But I'll tell you what, man. I don't know if I've ever seen a better, just ridiculous costume that looks perfect. And and The thing is, like the way they shoot this movie, I hate, like, I hate cinematography. Brad. Like it's just, it's ugly. There's like sometimes there's a weird fog filter on top of everything. Everything's at an angle. The angles themselves, they reveal too much of the sets a lot of times.

52:30 So it doesn't look like a real town. It looks like a set. And even with all that going on around him, like I never was looking at Jim Carrey's costume going like that's a costume. Like it is. It's one of the best costumes I've ever seen. It's like, incredible. And and the performance underneath it is spectacular. And it's because Carrie is such a brilliant comedian and he knows like, like there are moments in the asinine ridiculousness of his performance. There's moments where he draws it in and he almost like he often uses his body in a very big wide fashion. When he's engaging with the who's and he like it's almost like he's trying to get big for a bear and like scare them right and but when he's on his own in The Cave on the top of the mountain, like the scene where he's putting together his schedule, he's he's drawn in on himself. He's inwardly focused and and like Carrie, just has a talent for this type of comedy that I don't know if anybody else has. I will say like that that part of the movie was the worst part for me.

53:45 Like the first half of this movie, for many reasons, was like unwatchable. Like once the actual plot kicks in and he's like, I'm going to steal Christmas, the movie gets a lot better. But it if there was one scene that I could do without, it's that one where he's just in his cave chomping on a glass and basically doing like his version of Robin Williams riffing in Aladdin. You know, like there's like multiple points in Aladdin where it's like, I don't think they could actually cut around all of this improv. So they just kind of left it all in there and animated it. That's kind of what this feels like. It just goes on for way too long. But I like overall, I think this performance is a huge success. I do want to ask you about his voice because, you know, very famously in the original it was voiced by Boris Karloff, one of the great voices.

54:36 And in this movie, Jim Carrey's like, you can tell he's kind of trying to pay homage to that voice, but he's more doing like funny Sean Connery. Like, there's a lot of, there's a lot of Sean Connery here and it's it is also a choice. Yeah, I I think it's fine. That, like his voice, never bothered me. I think it fits with the character that he's trying to create. I think it would have bothered me in a more or in a less crazy movie. Yes. But like, you got to pick your battles, honestly. Yeah, like if it was a very accurate live action readaption of the animated film, but it had that voice.

55:20 It yes, it would not fit, it would be over the top. But what? What is over the top anymore, Bob? No. There is there is no top. If you find it. Brad, I don't want to spoil. Actually I do. I'm going to spoil my let's make it a double here because I don't want to wait until we get to that segment to come back to this. I I do think that I saw a lot of Burt Lars, Cowardly Lion in his performance, like from the extent of the makeup and the heaviness of the costume, but also like just the way he moves like you. I really do think Carrie was probably watching The Wizard of Oz to try to get some pointers for how to act underneath all this makeup. And you can draw a through line from the Cowardly Lion to the Grinch.

56:11 There's a lot of voice similarities, there's a lot of movement similarities. I didn't know if that was something you picked up on. Like, you and I are very famously not the world's biggest Wizard of Oz guys, and we haven't talked about that movie since, I don't know, season one or two. But I like, I kept thinking, like, what does this remind me of? And it hit me halfway through the movie like it's the Cowardly Lion, and then I couldn't get it out of my head the rest of the time. Yeah, that did not enter my consciousness. I haven't thought about The Wizard of Oz probably since we reviewed it. But you're. Yeah, I I think you're 100% correct. Like what? Like when I think back on The Wizard of Oz, there is.

56:51 Yeah, yeah. If he didn't watch it, I would be surprised. Boom. I did it. I nailed it. You. You. Did it, man, you're doing great. Is there anything else in this movie worth talking about, Brad? I think the little girl's great, Taylor Momsen. Momsen Yeah. Yeah, I I think Cindy Lou, who is really well done. I think that if the notes for Christine Baranski were just be as horny as possible, then she does a great job. I don't know if I like the performance. I definitely don't like the character. Yeah, I mean, I don't really think she's asked to do anything except be horny. So she's she's fine. So the the mayor of this Whoville town is played by Jeffrey Tambor, very famous comedian and I could not recognize him under the makeup and the buck teeth, but he.

57:41 Looks no idea that that was him. He. Looks. He. Looks like somebody else. And I couldn't place it. And I was thinking like, oh, this guy looks familiar. But then I saw Jeffrey Tambor and I'm like, no, no, that's not who I'm thinking of. Like, even when confronted with the reality of who it was, it like, I guess it it speaks to the effectiveness of this makeup because I thought he was being played by somebody else than he actually was. This makeup is weird sometimes, Brad, because it's really good on Jeffrey Tambor. It's incredible on Jim Carrey. And then you've got different stages of it. Like with the little kids, they don't put as much makeup on them. There's like the nose, but that's about it. There's not as much prosthetics.

58:22 Christine Baranski barely has any. But then you've got like, Molly Shannon playing the mom. And every time she tries to like, say, the letter M, she can't close her lips over the teeth. And so, like, there there are points where the makeup is really distracting. And I kind of wish that they had been like, you know what? We are maximizing everything else about this movie. Like, do we really need to force this poor woman to try to speak through these teeth? You know what I mean? This is not my let's make it a double. But as you're saying that all I could think about was Remy Malik. But keep me in Rhapsody teeth. Yes, yes.

59:03 They must have been taking notes for Bohemian Rhapsody from How the Grinch Stole Christmas like, oh, this is exactly what we're going for here. All right, Brad. Like I think we've both established there's not going to ask you. One one question about the script. Sure, what I At the end of the movie, you find out that the mayor isn't actually married to Christine Baranski. Yeah, I don't really. So here's the thing after. What was up with that? After the whole movie, they make it seem like they're married. After the Grinch rides into town and and the dad, like, stops the sleigh, I I'm not going to lie dude, I just completely zoned out. I don't remember a thing about the end of this movie, except that, like, Anthony Hopkins is narrating, right? Oh.

59:53 Dude. And even that I'm hot take. I love Anthony Hopkins. My guy was mailing it in like he he wanted that check and he he did everything in one take and it was like OK but not the best. Yeah, and I mean he he recorded his lines in one day. Oh yeah, so. So it shows. Anyway, all that to say, I don't even remember this thing about the mayor that you're referring to. So, like, yeah, that through the whole movie, he's clearly got the hots for her. I don't remember thinking they were married, but then also apparently there's a reveal at the end that they weren't married. I don't know.

1:00:34 Here's the thing, Brad, it's a it's a 30 minute movie that they stretched into an hour and a half. I think we are at a good place, Brad, to get into our last segment of the day, which we call, let's make it a double. We're near the end of the episode, so thanks for listening to the film and whiskey show. Let's pair another film with this one, even if it's struggling. It's a final segment of the day. Now let's make it a double. Let's make it a double is the part of the show where we pick a movie to pair up with this one to make the perfect double feature. As I said, I'm going to pick The Wizard of Oz here because of the Cowardly Lion similarities, but also because, like The Wizard of Oz is not my favorite movie.

1:01:14 It is a significantly better film than this, and it also is a really good example of how to film sets that are very fake and still make them seem like real places that our characters are in. Because one of the biggest downsides of this movie is that the crazy camera angles just completely ruin any chance of you thinking that these people are are anywhere but on a sound stage. So if you would like a better example, but also maintaining absolute wild craziness, I would say go watch The Wizard of Oz. I think I'm going to pick another movie from the 90s that is just a great example of the wild craziness of the 90s.

1:02:00 I am going to pair this with the Arnold Schwarzenegger LED Jingle all the way. Dude, as a child of the 90s, I love this movie, a film my wife had never seen until we got married. And when we were decorating for Christmas one year, I was like, well, let's put this on in the background. She was not into this movie, dude. Like, I don't think she hated it, but she was just like, you. You watched this as a kid. You liked this as a kid. What's going on? Like, it's just one of those movies, you know? 5-6 year old Bob had much worse taste apparently than 10 year old How the Grinch Stole Christmas watching Bob.

1:02:42 How much better would this movie have been if Arnold Schwarzenegger had been like the mayor or something, though? Oh. Bro if. If if the Grinch was played by Sylvester Stallone and the mare was played by Schwarzenegger, yes, I'm 100% in. All right, so there you have it. I said the Wizard of Oz. Brad said, Jingle all the way. Honestly, I think Brad wins this round. That's just such a deeply weird movie. I love it so much. Yep, I I thought it was a good match for this. All right, Brad, let's give this some scores. I'm gonna be honest with you. I was fully prepared to come in and give this movie a 2.5 out of 10 based on the first half.

1:03:29 In fact, at the halfway point, I texted you an article I found, and I I don't know if I've ever agreed with more in an article than this review of the Grinch. And it was like a complete takedown of just what an abomination this movie is. I still agree with that. But I will also say that once this movie finds a plot, you kind of stop noticing how freaking weird everything else is. Like the the filmmaking gets more propulsive. There's like a rhythm to it. You're kind of used to the garishness of it. And so you kind of don't pay attention to that anymore, and you're just along for the actual Doctor Seuss written ride. And like I I kind of enjoyed the second-half of this movie, Brad. I didn't enjoy it enough to give it a really high score. But Brad, I I've been waffling between a four and a half and A5.

1:04:23 And then you set and then you set the over 104 and a half 4.75. Exactly where it needed to be, baby. Do I know you or do I know? You and I'm 100% serious, dude. Like, we did not talk about this, this, These were the 2 scores that I was. Like is it a 5 or is it a four and a half? I'm gonna give it. Vegas has got nothing on me, baby. I'm gonna give it a 4 1/2 man. Like it. The ending is OK, but the first half is an abomination, yeah. No, I I'm not too far off from you, Bob. I think for me, I don't have as much angst about this movie because I really don't give a rip about the first one. That being said, this isn't a great movie, folks. There are some funny moments I for me, I'm with you that the scene of just Jim Carrey being Jim Carrey in the mountain by himself is is overwrought in a movie full of of going over the top.

1:05:21 But it has some classic lines. When he talks about not being able to cancel on himself for dinner again, it's it's so funny, man. So I think there's more than enough here to enjoy. I wouldn't recommend watching it more than like twice a decade if you even if you're a big fan. I'm like, I I don't know if this movie is good for you if you want. To like, Are you saying like if you want to preserve the magic of the movie? Like you can't, you can't ruin it for yourself? Exactly. Got it. So I I'll give it a six, I'll, I'll give it a 5 1/2 out of 10. It's it's fine. It was OK.

1:06:01 It made me chuckle a few times. Not a great movie. All right folks, that takes us to an average of just a 5 out of 10. Brad I have a feeling it's going to be pretty difficult for anything to come out lower than this movie on the season. Yeah, yeah, I I can't see a world where this isn't the number 32 seed. Michael Bay and his Transformers movies are like Challenge accepted, baby, yeah. I yeah, I guess that's true. I mean, we have The Last Jedi. We have. Yeah. There's a lot to bring us down. All right. We're just starting starting early in 2000. Yeah, and we're going to continue this weird trend of like goofy monsters that we've been on with Jar Jar Binks and the Grinch.

1:06:47 And we're going to roll into 2001 next week to look at what is apparently the Internet's favorite film of all time, the DreamWorks animated Oscar winning film Shrek. Hopefully that's not going to come out to a 5 out of 10 because I don't know how many more of these I can take, Brad. So before we get out of here, let me say folks, we'd love to hear what you think of how the Grinch Stole Christmas. Are we out of our minds or did we score it too high? You can let us know at any of our social media accounts. Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Tiktok, YouTube at Film Whiskey. Or jump into our Discord. We have a Discord server dedicated for you guys, our fans.

1:07:28 We love getting on there, talking to you guys, discussing anything going on in our worlds. So if you want, you can join the conversation. There's a link at the end of every single. Join us next week for Shrek, but until then, I'm Bob book. I'm Brad G. And we'll see you next time.