Heat / Glenmorangie Astar

0:00 As we get into today's episode, I just want to take a second, remind you that there's a ton of extra content available to the members of film and whiskey Nation who support us through our patreon. Check us out on patreon.com film whiskey. In 1995 director, Michael Mann and stars, Pacino and De Niro, gave the world. A tense crime Thriller that pits two men who will stop at nothing to do their jobs in 2023. We take a return trip to the Highland. Region of Scotland to try one of our favorite Brands. The film is heat, the whiskey is Glenmorangie. A star war view them both.

0:41 This is the film and whiskey podcast. Welcome to the film and whiskey podcast, where each week, we review a classic movie and a glass of whiskey. I'm Bob book, I'm Brad G. And this week, we are continuing our series of Michael Mann films with his 1995. Masterpiece, heat, Brad. Getting hot. It's getting hot in here. Bob, first point of order about the movie Heat. How great is it that you have a movie that the whole title is just heat, and it's the best title of a movie ever. Like, what an IT awesome name for a movie, it just totally fits.

1:36 Yeah, they use the title in the movie like maybe two or three times to many, but it works because it's Pacino and De Niro. It's just so good, man. Brad. I want to very quickly, give a little bit of history on me and the movie Heat. We talked a little bit about Michael Mann, guys. Like go out a little bit and hi sweetie. Yeah, we had a dalliance there for a minute. Okay. We talked a little bit last week about my checkered past with the director, Michael Mann, and it kind of started about a year ago when I finally got around to watching heat. It had been like number one on my to watch list for a long, long time. And I was kind of wondering if I should just put it on the on the list for the podcast before I see it. And eventually, I just caved.

2:21 I'd seen too many things that said, oh, this is one of the 100 best movies ever made and if you haven't seen this movie, you're missing out and I was like, well I don't want to miss out. So I watched and I got to say it was like a seven and a half for me at that time. I just thought this it's a really long movie Brad. It's like two hours and 50 minutes long and I'm sure we'll discuss that point. But how long was it was collateral? Oh I don't know. Just under two it was like yeah 2005 somewhere in there. See I feel like this might be a hot take haha take heat. I feel like Michael Mann would be a great 90-minute director. Mmm like if he could Master the 90-minute film, that we often talked about as some of the greatest films ever created. I just I think his movies would be killer if they were just a lot tighter.

3:14 Yeah. So that was what really stuck out to me. The first time I watched it and I was not really looking forward to watching this movie again because I never liked being the guy that comes across. Like I have a hot take like Everyone likes this movie and Bob doesn't and I have to say watching it this time. I started watching it at like 11:00 p.m. one night like an idiot and I made it 50 minutes in and I was like all right I got to go to bed. I press pause at the 15-minute Mark. Went to bed. Watched it the next day and it flowed like gangbusters. It was incredible. It was like I watched an hour of prologue and then I treated that built the second two hours, as if it was a different movie. And this movie Works beautifully that way. I couldn't believe it.

3:57 Dude, like my score on this movie is going to go up exponentially. Here's a question for you. Do you think? Like like there's part of me that feels like your score shouldn't be valid here because I feel like Michael Mann would be angry with you if you didn't just watch his movie 100%. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Alright. With that out of the way, I mean my scores my score I don't really care. No without a with that out of the way I agree with you 100%. I watched I watched it all on the same day but I literally cut it in half. I I watched an hour and 25 minutes of it while my Daughter was napping and then finish the hour and 25 minutes later and I remember pausing it and being like, Oh my God, I'm only have like, literally halfway through.

4:46 This is kind of bit a little bit of torture but around that our 30, Mark the movie Just picks up and has some legs and it just gets so much better as it goes on the first hour or so, 60, 70 minutes is just like a prologue that keeps going on and on and on That's a funny thing though. Is that even though it's very slow-paced in that first hour or so, I don't know that. I would say that it drags it's just, it's all. It's almost like a completely separate movie. It's a very meditative and necessary set up to who these characters are. And then in that, final two hours is most of the action and the suspense and the tension ratchets up and it moves like gangbusters.

5:29 But that first hour really feels like it comes from. I don't want to say comes from a different movie because there, Definitely of all of a piece but it's like, if they released the first the first hour, as a television episode that you had to watch before you went to the theater to see the second two hours. I would almost say it like oh, that makes sense, you know. Yeah no yeah it totally does. I will say if I had to describe like the theme of this movie I would just say this the very first Grand Theft Auto came out in 1997 and I'm pretty sure that every iteration of that that Gaming franchise has been trying to more perfectly. Perfect, what happened in the movie?

6:11 He absolutely. Yeah, like we're gonna like the movie is just GTA on a movie screen and we're going to get into talking about the very long legs that this movie has had and the shadow that is cast over this genre of movie. It's a super influential film. And I think that's part of why it's held in such high esteem today, but before we get into all that Brad, let's take a step back here. Let's talk about the fact that this was your first time seeing the movie Heat and that gives us a wonderful opportunity to move into Brad. Explains the part of the podcast. Were Brad breaks down the plot of the film that he has just seen often for the first time Brad. I'm going to put 60 seconds on the clock here. Can you break down the plot of heat in one minute or less? All right, De Niro and Kilmer are are bad guys. And Pacino is a good guy and Kilmer doesn't really That much. He's just kind of a henchman to De Niro and he's married Ashley. Judd, Deniro's, not married to anybody because he's got to leave anything in 30 seconds flat. If he feels the heat around the corner, Pacino, is the heat. He's a police officer, he's on his third marriage, his stepdaughter is depressed, and he is charged with figuring out. What the heck is going on with De Niro and all the money he's stealing.

7:30 And so they they track each other and they they games with each other and they have coffee together the one time, and then DeNiro and his crew, steal money from a bank. And then they shoot everybody and everything. And, and one of the guy gets killed and Val Kilmer gets away, and De Niro gets away. 10 second, here goes to kill the guy who betrayed him and Val. Kilmer runs off and Ashley, Judd, saves him from the cops and Pacino shoots De Niro, and he's dead. Boom, the end heat. Oh, by the way, did we mention that these, these, These are spoiler filled episodes on film and beside ya. Do I, there was no spoilers there Bobbo.

8:10 No, no. All right, man. I guess I want to start by saying this last week with collateral. I kind of went in on how obvious the metaphors were and how I hated how much the characters That explicitly say their internal motivations and I thought it was a little too on the nose and I was really worried that like well if that was on the knows what's Heat going to be like and I have to say the first thing that impressed me about this movie is that the script is sophisticated enough that you know it's not like it's the most subtle thing in the world but they're not coming out and saying explicitly. Like this is my issue and this is why I can't connect with human beings and this is blah blah blah. Like it's always.

8:57 Veiled in short little phrases and then you see behind their eyes, the realization of, you know, the toll that it's taken to be this dedicated to their craft. So I mean the first point in its column for me is that this is just a much more. I guess I'd call it subtle. Portrayal of what collateral was trying to do. Yeah, I mean I think that the thing that you have going for this movie that collateral doesn't is that a collateral has Tom Cruise in his first-ever villain role and maybe only villain role and be Jamie. Foxx's is a great actor but he's still a little bit up and coming in that I think that in he you have the prototypical mobster / police officer in Pacino and De Niro just at like the peak of their career.

9:50 They're not too old where they're kind of just relying on what they've always done, but they have so much experience that they elevate this movie to another level that, that the movie itself. I don't know if it totally deserves it, but they are incredible in this film. Yeah, they really are and you've got Pacino. I guess. Let's do this. Let's start talking about the performances because I have many, many thoughts on both of them. Pacino is in full Pacino mode throughout most of this movie and And it's been really funny to watch him. Talk about this character after the fact, because he talks about how apparently, you know, it was part of the character that Vincent Hanna was on a lot of coke and it was like, you don't say, you know what I mean, but then, that was kind of cut out of the Final Cut of the movie. And so he just looks like he's on Coke but you don't actually see it doing coke.

10:38 It was cut. Yeah, there it is. I really struggled with Pacino as an actor and that's not to say that he's not incredible and Electric in this movie but When you watch him in The Godfather and The Godfather to and even to some extent like Dog Day Afternoon, where he has these moments where he blows up. But then that's a very internal performance. By the time you get past Scarface in 83 Pacino Embraces the Pacino nests of himself and becomes kind of like a an outsized version of himself and he never goes back and like like post Scarface Pacino is just a different person than pre Scarface Pacino and In this movie, like, you know, it's been mocked to death when he slapped his hand on the table and started screaming and getting, I got, give me I got and then the scene where he has Hank Azaria, cornered and he's just talking about, she's got a great ass.

11:34 Like it's, it's like why did you do those line readings? That way, I'll Pacino. I don't understand, like, what are we going for here? She's got a great ass was a, was a ad-lib line. You don't say that up? Yeah, who would have thought, but I say all that to say this when you get to that coffee shop scene at the 1 hour and 30 minute Mark everything stands still and you can tell that the actors in that scene have so much respect for each other and Pacheco is really truly bringing his a game and it is such a beautiful example of watching people react to each other rather than trying to out act one another.

12:15 And it's honestly the best I would say like, after 1980. It might be my favorite moment of Al Pacino acting ever. It's so good. Brad. Yeah, it's an incredible scene. I think that, for me was incredible. And I think when you pair that those moments, he has with De Niro with him, saving his stepdaughter in a, in a terribly brutal scene to watch. Kinda it was kind of like out of left field for me. It was like. Wait, what's going on? Did somebody like come in and try to kill his stepdaughter? And was like, oh wait, no. I Well, those moments that he has trying to save her and then sitting in the in the waiting room with his wife soon-to-be ex-wife question mark.

13:00 I just thought that he brought a gravitas to to those scenes that he was little bit missing the rest of the movie. All right, so let's talk a little bit about DeNiro, then. I mean, I feel like we're getting right into the meat of this today, but it's a two-person movie essentially. And this is a really great De Niro performance, and I think that De Niro Has always been a bit underrated for his ability to convey interiority. And this is one of those performances that we love from De Niro. We've watched a few of his performances this year, where he's a guy that doesn't have many words to say. And because of that danira has to find other ways of conveying what's inside that person. And he did it in one very specific way in Taxi Driver. He did it, another very specific way, in Raging Bull, and now we're seeing a different iteration of that here. And this is like low-key one of my favorite DeNiro performances. It's just it's very quiet.

13:55 It sneaks up on you. It's really subtle. I think it's a great performance. Yeah, I mean I think that De Niro in Goodfellas is similar, but there's a lot of anger undergirding that performance. That's like just boiling under the surface. Whereas I think in this one there's a coolness to his character and a confidence that comes with being like, a master Thief. Hmm. That He doesn't break under any circumstances. And so I think that there's similar portrayals. I think that when you dive into the Nuance of each character, you can actually tell that like De Niro is just an incredible actor. Yeah. Like he draws out exactly what needs to be drawn out of each character and I'll be honest with you man.

14:40 Before we did this podcast I don't know if I would have put De Niro as one of the greatest actors of all time, but at this point we probably seen him in In 56 movies, maybe. Yeah. De Niro is incredibly. Yeah, he is, he is on another level from almost any actor I've ever seen Bob. Well, and that's another, you know, he's it's another one of those examples where a comedian figures out that he can do a pretty good impression of De Niro, doing that DeNiro face, and then every comedian has to do a DeNiro impression, and it's not like you're doing an impression of De Niro and is more subtle moments, you're doing the most outsized version of that.

15:21 And so then eventually that starts to become what We'll think Robert De Niro's like and then you watch him in a movie like taxi driver, I really am. So grateful that we watched taxi driver and Raging Bull back-to-back because even just in the few years between those performances, I mean the physical transformation is one thing but the complete and utter 180 differences between those two characters and how he plays them both so perfectly that you could see them both as real-life people and not as De Niro playing someone, he's one of the most Versatile actors we've ever had and I don't think he gets enough credit for that versatility. Yeah, I mean, when he's sitting at the coffee shop at the diner with Pacino and he just the wit when Pacino, basically calls him a, to B, you know, gangster. And he the way he looks at him with such derision and is like, What Do You See Me, Knocking up liquor stores? Like like, come on.

16:19 Like he delivers that line with so much tenacity and force. Well, that like, I almost had to sit back. I was like, oh damn, like like De Niro's. Going for it that scene is played, so beautifully because it takes you through like the initial arm's. Length - of those two guys and how very quickly De Niro, just kind of sets the table that he says, you do what you do best. He says, I do what I do best. You know taking down scores. You do what you do best trying to catch guys, like me and that starts him off on this. This mutual respect to the Point where there's this really great exchange where they say, you know, they talk about Pacino says how his life is a total freak Show. And that's really this vulnerable moment where this is the only guy Pacino can confess this to because he's talking to himself and he's like, no, you know what my life, either? My life is a freak Show and and then he says but there's really nothing else, I'd rather do.

17:15 But you know, DeNiro says me neither, I guess. And then they have this like this moment of just a little bit of a grin between both of them like This is Destiny. This is what we are destined to do as people. Whether it's good or bad, whether we're going to destroy our lives in the process. There's nothing else for us and there's a respect. And then immediately after that moment, it's like this. Resolved comes over both of them where they're like, hey, I just want to let you know, I'm going to kill you if it comes to that and then and then De Niro says the same thing and then it's like, all right, cool. See you later? And it's such a kind of cold and like it almost Most like sends Shivers up your spine when you see the the commitment of both of them to what they know they have to do. It's so well played.

18:02 Yeah, I mean, truly one of the greatest diners scenes of all time, I'm realizing. As I thought about that phrase, though, greatest time students of all time, somebody on the internet, has the editing prowess to cut together. Another of the greatest dining scene, room scenes of all time. I want them to somehow create a mash-up of the diner scene from Heat with the diner scene from When Harry Met Sally and just have like Pacino and De Niro are trying to have this conversation, but the all they hear in the background is Meg, Ryan moaning. And then, all of a sudden, you just cut to the diner scene from Pulp Fiction and everyone's pointing guns at each other. Yes, that is all I want out of the internet today. That's great.

18:52 All right. Where do you want to go from here? Brad. I'm going to keep talking about the rest of the cast. Is there something in the movie specifically that you want to dive in on a little bit? I mean, can we agree that John, Floyd has the worst hair and makeup team of all time, they really tried to do something with him here and I don't know what that was off that void. I thought that voice is fine. I think he I think I honestly think Jon Voight is a great Handler roll, you know what I mean? Like for criminals or for spies or whatever. Like I think he's great for that role. But they did the man dirty with hair and makeup. Jon Voight is only I think five for five years older than De Niro. There's like a four-year different separating, like Voight Pacino and then De Niro again. And it's just, it's really funny to see how they try to make some of them look much older than others in this movie. Dinero for what it's worth.

19:43 You know, we tell you had this conversation with Sylvester, Stallone in Rocky, Ford and talked about how that was probably the best-looking Sylvester Stallone has ever been, dude. The beard Nero in this movie might be the most attractive version of De Niro. Yeah. Easily. He's cutting that George Clooney phase of like he's starting to Grey but he's not you know, in his 70s yet and he like he looks good man. He sure does good-looking dude. Once again, you have the return of the gray suit which we had last week with Vincent in collateral and you know, once again, I would say that it's a very on the nose kind of metaphor for the fact that this is a bad guy. But he's our protagonist and He operates in Shades of Gray because he is a thief but that's a movie about honor among Thieves and it's so like I don't love the metaphor but I really like the costuming and I think that it suits De Niro a lot better than it suited the fake wig version of Tom Cruise last week dude, I'm telling you. If they don't dye his hair grey, I think Tom Cruise looks incredible in a Gracie.

20:46 It's over too big though. That's not even died. Like it's very obviously a wig, right? I don't know, man. I feel like it was died. I could be run ever. They did. It doesn't look good. It wasn't, it doesn't work. It does work on De Niro though because he had gray hair in it, it just worked for him. I'm curious what you think about Val Kilmer in this Val, Kilmer's an interesting actor. I've never been convinced that he's a great actor and I've seen him in a lot of lead roles to, you know, he very famously, played Jim Morrison, and the doors and he gave his all to that role. It was a really great performance, but I've always just kind of found Val, Kilmer to be trying really hard in everything he does.

21:30 And I get that a little bit here, but I really love that they've made him like the strung out. I don't wanna call him a Chunky because you don't really see him actually doing drugs. But strung out in debt Gambler trying to hold his life together and I think he does a really beautiful job of playing the nuances of that character, that the script gives him because his character isn't a lot of ways, the opposite of De Niro's character. He has too many attachments. But where De Niro looks at him as like, what the hell are you doing? You can you're not supposed to have any attachments Kilmer's? Like listen, man, I like I'm okay. Making my bed and sleeping in it. I'm not going to live a life where I'm alone all the time and I like having a wife and a child.

22:13 And if you're asking me to leave my wife in 30 seconds to avoid going to jail like that's not worth it to me and I really think that he does a good job with that. Also ironically he's the only one who makes it away. Yeah yeah. And he has to leave his wife in the process of De Niro's right all along. That's the great irony of it. Mmm no I for the longest time have I've never once thought that Val Kilmer was a good actor until I watched heat. Mmm, like watching heat. I was like really Blown Away now, the bar was really low, so it's not like I'm saying, he's like an A-Plus performance here. But like dude, turns in a really solid performance next to two incredible performances from near and Pacino, and like, it has like, I don't know if this is facetious, this are not, but like he deserved to have his name on the title.

23:06 You know what I mean? Yeah, like to have his name on the top of the movie. I thought he carried his weight incredibly well, here alongside a wonderful performance from Ashley Judd. Now, you and I were talking about this right before we hit record, but it's worth repeating. 1995 Ashley, Judd with bleached hair looked remarkably similar to Young Charlize Theron and how they used to make her up in early movies where she was stuck playing apples wives and girlfriends. Like it's I legit thought. Thought it was Charlie's and then I heard her talk and I was like, wait a second that's not Charlize and I had to look it up. Yeah, I mean it's you know, I think that is also indicative of like they made everybody look exactly the same, which really sucks. But but yeah, man.

23:48 Like a BLT, buddy, you mean that's how they treated women in the night. Exactly, exactly. Yeah. It really caught me off guard for sure. All right. So that's that's our actors. I think that the action scenes in this suffer from a similar problem that they did in collateral. Interesting because I found this to have a lot better geography then like like establishment of the geography than collateral did. And in particular does thinking of like you know The Big Heist scene does a great job of laying out the interior of that bank and then what the street looks like outside. And then when it spills over into that kind of plaza where Tom Sizemore gets shot, you have a really good sense of where everyone is at all times. I thought that stretch was pretty phenomenally done as well as the the The opening heist with the, the armed armored car like I thought that was really well done to. I think I like the armored car Heist better because it goes by a little quicker.

24:45 Hmm, I think what I'm thinking of is once you know De Niro and Kilmer and Sizemore make it outside and their car has crashed and they're like advancing with their, you know, assault rifles against the police officers. There's a certain point of the action or I'm like, oh, I've seen the same sequence of shots like six times in a row now, like one of them will move up and shoot at the police lineup. Police cars, the other one will run forward, while the other ones shooting at the police cars and then turn around and shoot it. The guys behind them, then we'll get a shot of the police officers at the police line will get a shot of the detectives police officers following them from behind, and then we'll go back and we'll show them shooting at the police line again and somebody advancing.

25:35 And he literally did that like, six times in a row now. Is it effective are there a lot of bullets flying? I mean, yes, there's thousands of bullets being shot, but there's a certain point where I was like, oh, this is the exact same problem I had with the club scene and Clanton like like he's not raising the tension, he's not raising the stakes. It's just kind of the same action scenes over and over again for a solid three or four minutes until they finally kind of split off and, you know, somebody gets shot and He's helping helping Val Kilmer off and the other dude is picking up a child and and it changes and it's great action. And I thought they did an incredible job with it. But there's a few moments like that throughout the movie where I'm like, man, he just needs to tighten it up a little bit and stopped just relying on the same shots over and over and over again. I'm going to disagree with you but only because of where that scene comes in the course of the movie. There's been two hours almost of build up to that moment like they've been planning.

26:35 That particular Heist for probably an hour and 15 minutes and building the team. And and understanding that they've already got the heat on them and trying to figure out what's going on with this waingro guy that betrayed them in the first thing. And so there's this paranoia, that sets in and this sense of like this is doomed from the start, like you just know this is not going to go well, for any of them. And so you're waiting on it to fall apart and I think having them get trapped between, you know, the to Grunts the opposing lines of police that are shooting at them. That sort of like incremental movement, they're trying to make to escape. I really did feel the tension there because you come to care for all three of those main people in that that gang as well as for Dennis Haysbert, the poor guy who just gets roped into being their getaway driver. And so like with each successive attempt to like gain half a block, I think you really do, understand, there's no way they're getting out.

27:35 Of this like this is not going to end well at all and so, it takes on a more, tragic tone. Where's the one in collateral was? Like, you didn't even know you were going to that nightclub until a minute before it happened, because Tom Cruise is playing everything real close to the chest and not you know, not revealing where they're going or what number. This is on his list of who to kill or whatever. So it's like it was that was a cool scene but I was with you more on that one than I am on this one. Can I just say that? You said it was Dennis Haysbert. Yeah. You know how like movies? They'll have like a second director that will shoot. You know, others Yashin, scenes and stuff. I'm pretty sure that they hired the Coen Brothers to shoot his part of the movie because he just has the most sad and like nihilistic archive ever seen for a character like, he's like, getting out of jail, he's trying to make his life, right? And then this This, you know, this kitchen managers just said a jerk to him and put him down, he gets a chance to make a little money and get back into the action and he just dies. Like there's no there's no celebration of his life. There's nothing.

28:43 He's just meaningless and everything is meaningless for him and I just thought that that was probably the saddest part of the whole movie because I really liked him a lot. It's so funny to, like, have an association with an actor and then go back and see their prior work because my first exposure to him was I don't know if you ever watched the TV show 24 when that was like a big thing but he was the president on 24 and 0. And so like I've always had this this image of him as like he's this, you know, Dapper upstanding citizen and then he becomes the Allstate guy. And so like, you know, I'm like, oh, it's the Allstate guy. I need to know that he's like, in a kitchen being like, fuck, you like, oh, yeah. Allstate guy. What the hell.

29:25 So that was a really other really jarring thing. And speaking of jarring thing, Things Brad. If there is one element of this movie that I do not think works very well. I guess there's two things but they're kind of related to each other. It all has to do with this character of waingro, the guy that betrays the gang and like, screws everything up in the first Heist, because he's just a sadistic guy and just kills people for sport basically. And then he kind of, sells them out and starts working with the cops. And with these, like these other guys that got their money stolen in the beginning, like these high-powered, Powered criminals. The character of waingro just does not work for me. Brad. I don't think they needed to make him be like a serial killer.

30:07 In addition to being like a sadistic bank robber like there's this whole subplot that's kind of kind of like Buffalo Bill in Silence of the Lambs a little bit. Mmm. Yeah. And it doesn't make any sense and it doesn't belong in this movie and it doesn't really Advance the plot or teach you anything more that you needed to know other than this guy's just sadistic I just don't know that you needed any of that. Yeah, no he easily could have had his opening scene with the, you know, the armored car robbery gotten almost killed by De Niro, and then that's it. Like, that's all the motivation he needs to screw over these guys, but I think that they were trying to bridge. The gap of like waingro is the thing that gets them connected to De Niro and the rest of the crew. And so he had to do something to draw them in. And so that something was To kill a bunch of prostitutes, I guess.

31:01 Yeah. So it's like it but it feels very contrived. Like, yeah, it just, it feels like they could have picked him up for some sort of simple crime. And then he's like, hey instead of putting me in jail, I could give you Macaulay. He's the guy that's stealing all the money right guy. I don't know. It could, it could have been a lot simpler. Yeah. And then going along with that they keep they keep giving characters dialogue when they have to describe guys as a hot dog. And I'm like, what is this dialogue? Because, like, I know, Michael Mann, finished writing the script in like 1979, but even in 1979, I feel like people would read that and be like, what is this from the 30s? Like, what?

31:42 Like, there's a moment where the prostitute looks at waingro and she's like, you're a real hot dog. And not like, was this supposed to pass for like effective and realistic prostitute dialogue in 1995 because I'm pretty sure that this would only Only work in like a Looney Tunes cartoon Bob. I don't know how much time you spent with prostitutes in 1995. That's the lingo, my friends right behind closed doors. Everyone knows that their lady calls them, a real hot, dog. You're a real hot dog. They're saying, she just takes off a mask and reveals that she's actually Edward G Robinson underneath chompin on a cigar.

32:26 Oh man. Bob, I need to drink some Scotch, if I'm going to keep talking about Edward, G Robinson, let's do it, man. Oh, there you gate gate is, it's me, George, be stagger back again to Delight your ears. With a 60-second. Whiskey appraisal today's episode is brought to you by doc Swensons, the legendary blending Wizards over there. Have created for us an incredible new addition to their exploratory, Cask series, The French toasted this delicious pours, a straight bourbon whiskey finished in French Oak. Casks and my oh, my has it, the bee's knees. The nose is a bombastic, balance of butter and pecans with vanilla and Oak on the side. Side on the pallets. You've got some incredible caramel mixing with notes of orange creamsicle Rich cheesecake and black pepper to finish things off.

33:13 We've got a nice Kentucky hug to go along with a bunch of pepper and Oak. There are some long-lasting flavor here folks, and I'll be darned of Doc's Swensons didn't knock this one out of the park it's that good folks. I don't nobody a local speak easier go to Doc's whisky.com in order to partake in the hottest juice in town. Until next time, this is George be stagger signing off. Alright, so today we are checking out the Glenmorangie a star. This is a really, really interesting bottle Brad because I picked this up in the state of Ohio when they stopped carrying it here. It was on their last call shelves.

33:54 And so it got knocked down a little bit. I think it's a usually around a hundred dollar bottle. This is a one of the fancier bottles from the Glenmorangie line. It's aged only in Bourbon casks. It's non chill filtered and They bottle it at fifty two point five percent ABV or 105 proof. So it's a higher proof offering from Glenmorangie. Brad. We, you know, we've sung the Praises of Glenmorangie for years on this podcast, but for the most part, we try to stick with their like 50 to 60 dollar range of stuff. We tried the the cad bowl of state. That's usually a little bit pricier and we tried the 18 year which is like 120 bucks and that was phenomenal.

34:34 So I'm really expecting great things. For this a star. Yeah, I mean it's it's Barrel proof is in X bourbon barrels, I'm really excited for it, man. All right, man, let's just Dive Right In. I'll spoil things a little bit. I sip this before we got on tonight and I might be in love with this question. Mark on the nose, like the very first thing I got was apple juice, not, apple cider, like almost like a kid's apple juice and then right behind that was a lot of Strawberry, I got almost like a strawberry jelly, or what's that? What's it called? Like jello like strawberry Jell-O. It's very, very fruity.

35:15 Really sweet. Almost candy sweet to me. I'm going to give it an 8 out of 10 on the nose just because these are not notes. I typically get on a Glenmorangie. So there's something different going on here and I like it a lot, huh? Yeah, I mean, I'm going to give it a 7 out of 10 on the nose for me, there's a lot of must going on here. There's a little bit of honey. I get some - but more of like a dried tart cherry, there's a little bit of nutmeg and then the longer I sit with it. The more I think that that Oak is really coming through strong here. It's interesting. It is important to note and this is not to undercut your score at all. We drank some Johnny drum last week and you told me right before we got on then like, hey I'm feeling a little under the weather. So my score might be affected a little bit and you've liked this, this cold has been hanging on with you for about a week now.

36:04 So I know that you drank this you were not feeling great, you're feeling a little bit better today. I obviously I trust your palate enough that I'm not going to like undercut your scores here but it is important to note like but right now that you are Brad. G not 100%. Today I always am 100%. Bob there's there's no such thing as a less than 100% Brad G. All right, I'm going to pass that one up. Okay, on the on the pallet on The Taste here. This is where I really, really love this because it is Most like, two distinct whiskeys for me and different than anything I've ever had from Glenmorangie on the front of the palette to the mid palate, it is really sweet.

36:46 It's the sweetest Glenmorangie Scotch I've ever had, it's just like it's apple juice. It's all those things I noted, it's got melon, it's got strawberry to it. It hits your mid palate and you go to swallow and then all of a sudden it's like an explosion of smokiness and Ash, and Char and it's mixed with that really Terfel kind of Highland Scotch flavor from The Barley that you get there. It doesn't turn, Super bitter but it is like a very distinct deflect dividing line on your tongue between sweet and and kind of pleasantly thin and then immediately like, hey this is 105 proof, are you ready for this? And it just is a flavor bomb, man.

37:28 I'm going to give it a 9 and a half on the palate. Yeah. I am not there with you Bob. I think that sickness or know. Yes, this is a little bit rough for me, man, for me. The oak is just overpowering. There's, there's a decent amount of barley. It's very tannic for me. And then I was sitting here for a while. There's just this awkward note that I couldn't place and I finally realized it. Kind of tastes like Dove soap a little bit explain that flavor of Dove soap To Me. Brad, I'm not familiar, I don't know. It's It's just like Sophie dovie, so be, yeah, there's something about, I don't know what, you know, chemicals are in soap that give it its smell, but it reminds me of the smell of Dove soap.

38:19 But on my tongue. Wow. Don't like it that much. It's not terrible. It's like there's still a bit of flavor there where I can tell that this is Glenmore G but I'm only going to give it a six out of ten man. Dude I was so excited to I was like finally A scotch that Brad and I can agree on like false okay on the finish. I do think that's where this one is going to get dinged a little bit. It's got some of those great kind of like Piney and vegetal notes to it but it gets a little bit bitter. I do think the word tannic is a good word for this. It doesn't have the drying effect that like real tannins have. But it does kind of remind me of that kind of like, you know, inside of a wine barrel cream of tartar. A kind of flavor.

39:07 And so, I'm only going to give it a seven on the finish. I think the Finish actually comes up a little, of course you do. Oh my God. The, the reason being, I get a lot of like a toasted Oak. There's a lot of The Barley coming through that sits on your palate for me. The only time I got something relatively sweet on this experience, was on the Finish like after it had sat on my palette for a while. I had swallowed, I was done with it. I got a little bit of vanilla notes. Coming through that I enjoyed. So it's not too far off from the the palate, but I'll give it a six and a half on the finish, all right? That takes us to balance like, listen, I gave it a 9 and a half on the palate and only a seven on the finish. So it's not a perfect experience here, but I am still going to give it an 8 on the balance.

39:54 I think there's a lot more in the pros column and there is in the cons column here. So I'm an eight. I'm at a five on balance, I just don't think that what they're Are trying to do here Works. Bob like I don't know if there's much more to say than that but the the movement from Flavor to flavor, isn't great for me and I don't care for it. This is Far and Away the harshest you've ever been on a Glenmorangie product. Yeah. And I can, I can say it with confidence to say, I love Glenmorangie. I think that they make incredible stuff. And there are a lot of, with every once in a while. Mmm, it's okay.

40:34 Yeah, I don't think this is a with And so that's where we differ here, Brad. Have you seen what this is currently retailing for around the country? Well, kind of like in the state of Ohio, it was $60 and then it was on sale for 48 and now you can't find it anywhere because I'm guessing they discontinued it. So I honestly, I don't know. Bob what, where have you seen it at? Yeah. So here's the thing about the estar is that like they released it back in 2008 and then they re-released it, and I think 2017, Dean and maybe they did a release in 2018, but it's not like a recurring product that they put out. So it's hard to pinpoint because I don't want to say it's discontinued as much as it was just a special release, it seems like you can still find it pretty readily available around the country if you're looking for it.

41:24 But you might have to go to a certain store that's out of the way or get it on an online retailer. When it was released, it retailed at about 75 bucks, I would say, now you're looking at like at least a hundred dollars, so Brad. I don't know, like, just go ahead and pick what price point you think we should be evaluating this at? I mean, I would say what you can currently purchase it at. So, let's just put it on the dot triple digits $100. I truly think that aside from the King to Ruben, this might be the best Glenmorangie product I've had and it's between this and the 18 for second place and I'd have to go back and try the 18 again. But I really like this man. It's so different from what you normally get with that Glenmorangie.

42:06 Her profile. I like it a lot. $100 is pricey, but I actually think that this is a pretty good value Brad. I'm going to give it a 7 out of 10 honestly, when I was thinking it was 60 bucks, I gave it a 3 out of 10 at $100. I'm gonna give this a one out of ten Bob so when it did when I first talked to you about this yesterday, you told me that you thought it was just okay, and I feel like you actively hate it now. So like what what changed about this experience for you? Nothing. I genuinely think it's just okay and at $100 that is that's just a bad value. Like if this was a thirty five to forty dollar, whiskey sure like six seven out of ten, I'm value like it's a cheap scotch great.

42:57 It's not that good Bob. Alright, I'm going to try it. I'm going to try it again in a few weeks, I have enough left. Gonna try it again, we'll see where I'm at. And if I change my mind, if I, you know, was sick and it wasn't great, I will come on the podcast and tell you. All right, I'll hold ask you the now. I'm going to give it a 10 out of 10 on value, that brings my total score to a 25.5 out of 15-0. Yeah, Brad, I really do think that like regardless of if you end up liking it better or not. I think, just trying In it, when you're not under the weather is going to bring that score up to like, at least a 30 because I was just scoring out our whiskeys for the season so far today, and that's your lowest scored whiskey of the season. And I know, I know in my heart of hearts that this is better than Jameson cold brew.

43:48 So like, I think you should just give it another try. Even if it's just a bump, it up a couple, a couple points here, but I am at a 39.5 out of 50 which Us to a 65 out of 100 or a 32.5 out of 50. I think that is criminally low. You probably think it is criminally high and that is how numbers work. Yeah. I mean I will say though I totally recommend go buy it, get a tour of it. Big fan. Oh my gosh, you're real sassy today. I'm sassy Brad has shown up today. I'm about to be sassy Bob. All right man I'm at 100% remember Let's direct that sass at the movie, Heat.

44:31 What do you say? Forget that, I'm going to direct you to you with two facts in a falsehood. Let's get to it. All right, everybody. That was Glenmorangie a star which was not a star in our estimation is a star in my estimation speak for yourself. My good man, I'm speaking for the podcast Bob. Well speaking for the podcast then Brad, I will say that I have a stellar record at this season's game of two facts and a falsehood and nothing can prove otherwise. Mmm, so let's continue my forty. Eight game winning streak here.

45:13 You factor in a falsehood, is the part of the show where Brad presents three items to me all of them. As fact, one of them is a complete fabrication and I have to guess, which one is the falsehood. Brad, go ahead and hit us with your two facts and a falsehood, apparently, the I'm the Washington generals over here. Fax number one primarily due to the shootout scene about halfway through the film Heat, at the time, set the record for the most shots, fired in a movie with 4,000. 478 shots being fired throughout the movie. Now, I will say that is not like, you know, in all the takes. That's just what you see on the final product.

45:53 Okay. Fax number two waingro played by Kevin gauge is based on a real Chicago criminal named waingro who ran it out some influential Chicago criminals, according to Michael Mann, Winger went missing. His body was found in a Northern Mexico where it had been nailed to the wall of a shed, yikes. Fact number 3, during the bank shootout man wanted to realistically portray the damage caused by the gunfire. So he took several of the cars used in the scene to any took them to a firing range and shot them up with real rifles. The bullet holes were then filled with bomb, no painted over and blown open with squibs on camera. Interesting man, I'm really thrown today, I'm not sure. So the one that sticking out to me is number two and it's because I know that Michael Mann had add a factual basis for like, a couple of the characters in this movie like Neil McCauley is a real name of a real person who lived in. I think the 60s and, you know, he based his character on that and just set it in present day.

46:55 I don't know if waingro was a real person. Waingro is such a weird name. That it's almost like he has to be real because that just sounds. It sounds too, fake to be fake. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, one in three also could be true. One sounds, pretty plausible. Number 3, I don't know. That sounds sure. Is that like the entire premise of your guessing, which of Brad's fax sounds too fake to be fake, kind of? Yeah, I'm just gonna lock in number two. As my falsehood. Bob fax number two was indeed a fact so interesting. Okay. Yeah, there was a real criminal in Chicago named waingro and he was really found in northern Mexico. Where his body was nailed to the side of the shed. Yikes.

47:41 All right, what was the falsehood crime, doesn't pay kids. The falsehood was fact, number one. Hmm. It did not set a record for most shots fired. Honestly, I just thought the number was so high. I was Like someone must have counted all those numbers because that's that's a lot of shock because it's so shiny. That's true. It's the internet. So I'm sure that somebody had some point has counted the number of shots in the movie I did read a fact that each take of the bank heist scene, they fired two to three thousand shots while. So I kind of use that as a gauge to be like, you know, like 4,000 in the movie. That sounds good. All right man, so that's my first loss in the last 48 weeks. Yeah, it's crazy.

48:27 Man, I'm so proud of myself. You finally toppled. I was gonna say fun. Fact, this is an actual fun fact. The Washington generals. Do not lose every game. Can you imagine buying a ticket to go see the Harlem Globetrotters and then seeing them lose to the Washington generals? I kind of would want to absolutely not like I remember going to a Philly's game when I lived in Philadelphia and what was his name, he was kind of a long Term journeyman pitcher. He was later in his career playing for the Dodgers and he pitched a no-hitter. Hmm. And I like, I did the math and the chances of seeing a no-hitter and like live in person are like point two percent that any game you'd go to and I feel like watching the generals win would be a similar, you know chance?

49:15 Yeah, we can see. We used equally historic. Yeah, exactly. All right, man, before we get out of here today, you know, I don't really know that we need to go super On the themes of heat because we hit on most of them last week, in collateral other than to say, I just think this movie does it significantly. Better like The Angst and the existentialism. And the, the doubt about one's own choices and is their Destiny. I just think it all works here in ways that it didn't, it felt kind of shoehorned into collateral for me. Hmm, yeah, I mean, I think that, for me, what really worked in this film was the actresses You know, the the wives, if you will, I just feel like they give a lived-in feel to the world that you didn't have in collateral. Yeah.

50:05 Texture. They add texture to the yes. Exactly. Yeah, 100%. And so I think all three of the female leads give really great performances. But I think for the story their performances, draw out the types of men that these main characters are and you kind of see them for the scum. Eggs that all of them really are. And and yet their dedication to the job is what makes them so great at it. So you don't know that it's a movie that is full of Shades of Grey like denier has suit. Hmm. Speaking of Shades of Grey, I want to talk a little bit about Michael Mann's visual stylistic choices in this movie because I think that's where this movie really becomes. Influential.

50:51 There's a couple things about this movie and, you know, I said this a few weeks ago with the Globe, house key that I couldn't believe this movie was 25 years old and a lot of that had to do with like the general Vibes and how I think comedy has kind of leaned towards the Lebowski bent over the last 25 years. But it's also the way that Roger deakins cinematography looks and in this movie, it's very similar, man. It's the cool color palette. It's the big empty spaces. It's the Sleek building designs. It's the Dapper suits, it's the empty La streets. I think that, you know, I mentioned Last week, the obvious comparison here is that Christopher Nolan took huge inspiration from heat for the dark night and if you watch that opening bank heist in the dark night, it is its heat set in the DC comic book Universe.

51:39 There's so much of this movie in there, but from the from the bank heist on. So like at the hour and a half, mark on the score to this movie, sounds like the score to a movie, you'd here in 2023. It and the editing of this movie feels, it has the Rhythm of a 2023 action film, like, it is so far ahead of its time Brad, this movie came out the same year as Braveheart, and babe, like tell me that this doesn't feel 15 to 20 years more recent than babe. Yeah, well, and I'll say the one thing that really blew me away is the sound design in this movie? Like, I don't know who won the Oscar. For what's the Oscar for like sound design? Yeah, there's one for sound mixing and there. To be 14 sound editing.

52:26 So I don't know if they had them both back then. But yeah, I feel like it should have won one of those Awards because the gunfight in the middle of downtown LA just has a crispness to to each and every gunshot that you don't hear another movies and I just thought it sounded so much more impactful than a lot of other, you know, action movies I've ever seen. I thought that his choice with the sound here. Incredible, especially when it was time to just cut the score and just allow the guns to be as violent sounding as they needed to be. Yeah. Braveheart, one best sound editing. Obviously for the dude.

53:10 I'm not gonna lie, Braveheart soundtrack is pretty killer, yeah, it has nothing to do with the score though, it's just for the, you know, the soil. Yeah, that's true. Words hitting each other and arrows hitting men in the but yeah. And like, you know, men screaming is, they get caught on fire. Yeah. No. He should have one there as much as I love Braveheart. I think he was killer in that. That category. All right, Brad. So we are two movies down in our, Michael Mann, you know, retrospective here. And next week, we're going to be looking at the Last of the Mohicans, which is a very different type of movie to Collateral and heat. And I just want to gauge at this point. Like, do you feel like you have a handle on Michael Mann? And if you do, what would you say, is his calling card? I mean so far, I think his calling card is action with a Twist of philosophy.

54:03 Hmm. That like that seems to be his goal is to like create the greatest action movie that he can, while having characters that have deep philosophical motivations. I think it works incredibly well in heat. It works pretty solidly in collateral but like you said, I love The word texture, there's not enough texture to either of their lives in collateral like they only exist because they are together. It feels like and so, I just think he's missing out on something there that, that he nails and heat. And I think for me that, that missing thing in collateral is that they really nailed down the idea of Destiny and fate.

54:46 And like, there's a little bit of playing with fate in collateral, but it just doesn't, it feels kind of forced because One night movie, these characters don't know, each other. And so those kind of start kicking around the idea of like, who was this fate? Whereas in heat, you know, the final shot of the movie is this brilliantly. Composed shot of De Niro dying and basically, like the plane that he would have been leaving on like taking off and Pacino's holding his hand as he dies. And it's like, the only moment of real Connection in that whole movie of like intimate touch. And it's these two guys holding and it really gets back to this idea of like, was this just their Destiny all along? Did they have any control over this or is this just who they are?

55:30 And is this like, what is the end of that? What was this all for? And I think it it asks so many great questions that collateral was just incapable of asking. So yeah, man, I I think that as we move in to make it a double, this is a hard one for me because I could go the route of like What's a movie that heat influenced? And the answer is like every movie for the last 27 years. I'm gonna do a really unconventional one. And it's one that's on the theme of guys who are too committed to their job, who understand that? They're going to ruin their own lives and it's not that they don't care.

56:11 It's just that they don't know how to do anything else. And it really reminded me of this date part documentary series from a couple years ago called The Last Dance where, where Michael Jordan, very clearly showed that his commitment to the game of basketball is. The only thing that gives his life meaning and I hate to say that about a guy but like, very lonely man. Yeah, so I would pair this up with the last dance if you want to see a real life example of that kind of commitment and its toll on someone, I think for me for making a double I'm going to pair it with a movie that is much lower production quality but I think there is a lot of strangely similar themes that this movie follows the cops and it follows the bad guys and it follows Vigilantes I think there's some great shootout scenes with just a massive amount of bullets being shot.

57:05 I'm gonna pair this with Boondock Saints. I feel like you've been like holding Boondock Saints in the back pocket, like waiting to slap it down on the table for a make it, a double you've referenced it a couple times before. Yeah. I think that heat is the one to watch it with my God, it would be a wildly enjoyable evening to watch. I would say watch Boondock Saints to like warm you up for all the violence and the Then get into heat which is is very clearly the better movie. All right. You say it's the better movie. I want to hear a final score here, Brad because I agree. It's a really long movie. And yet, the more I think of it, the more I'm like, I don't know what I would cut because I feel like even though it's a very protracted intro, like it really gets you into the headspace and the lives and The rhythms of these guys and so it's almost like I don't recommend watching it in one sitting but Also wouldn't recommend cutting it down, and because of that, I think I'm going to give this movie a 9 out of 10.

58:05 It's a really great movie and it works at exactly what it sets out to do. Yeah, I think I'm with you, man. I man, I'm trying to I'm waffling between an eight and a half in a nine. I think it's a really, really great movie. I think for me, the struggle was that for the first hour hour and 15 minutes of the movie. It just felt like there was too much going on. He was pulling it too many. Threads. The, the whole, you know, waingro being a serial killer thing. Just was too much but it has some incredible scenes. See, here's the thing. The final scene I love, but I hate De Niro's final. I like De Niro's final line represents 0 of the character.

58:51 We have watched like him, not him, not getting caught is not his motivation in life and so I was really frustrated that they put those words in his mouth. At the end I'm going to give it an eight and a half. Alright so we're at an eight point seven five out of ten on the movie Heat but we want to know what Think hit us up on our social media accounts, Facebook Twitter or Instagram at film whiskey or jump onto her Discord. We are on Discord every single day talking to you guys, the fans of the film whiskey podcast. So if you want to join the conversation, you can find a link to our Discord server. At the end of every single one of our show notes will be back next week with our friend, movie critic, Daniels, y0, to talk about his favorite film of all time. 1992's, The Last of the Mohicans But until then I'm Bob book, I'm Reggie and we'll see you next time.