Dune: Part Two / Bushmills 30-Year Single Malt Irish Whiskey ft. David Thomas Tao

0:00 In 2024, director Denny Villeneuve and star Timothy Chalamet gave the world a bombastic science fiction epic that challenged the rules of the game. In 2024 we visit the totally sandy dunes of Ireland to try a 30 year whiskey. The film is Dune part. Two, the whiskey is Bushmill's 30 year single malt. And we'll review them both. This is the. Film and Whiskey podcast. Welcome to the Film in Whiskey podcast, where each week we review a classic movie and a glass of whiskey. I'm Bob Book.

0:55 I'm Brad G. And Brad, it is our last official episode of 2024. We are ending the year on a pretty damn high note here too 'cause we're actually talking about a movie from 2024. It's absolutely wild and I feel like it's a movie that has the most recognizable like since Inception's. I feel like the is like the most recognizable little sound piece from a movie in a decade. Yeah, it's it's amazing, though, how, you know, we've talked about this with any movie set in Iraq or Afghanistan.

1:37 Like you get that like kind of questionable like Minaret call. And now here we are on a desert planet thousands of light years away, and we're still getting that exact same like whoever is paying that person to keep them employed with that little trill of a voice. They are making bank off of Sandy. Movies. Here's the thing though, man, it doesn't matter when you make it freaking awesome. And I would say Dune Part 2 is, in fact, freaking awesome. Brad, I literally just finished watching this movie about 20 minutes before we hopped on tonight. It's my third time having seen the film, and I realized that I don't think we've actually covered Dune Part 1 on this podcast before.

2:22 So it's going to be a really interesting conversation. I'm sure we'll have to lay some groundwork for both the Dune books and the Dune movies. And in order to do that, we're going to need some help. So we've enlisted the help of a good friend of ours making, I believe, his third appearance already on the podcast. Second, we're well, we're gonna say third. It sounds better. He's he's he's making numbers at me. It's our friend David Thomas Tao. David, how are you today, man? I am. I'm excellent. And you know what the the fun fact, you watch Dune 2, Dune Part 2, right before this, right after this, I'm gonna watch the new episode of Dune Prophecy, which has become my Sunday night tradition. So the timing of this couldn't be better from a nerd.

3:03 Perspective, it's amazing how quickly the, you know, the Star Wars Disney acquisition pipeline has gone for the Dune IP. Warner Brothers was like, you know what, we own this now we're going to pump out two movies and then immediately get ATV show going as well. I have not yet watched Dune Prophecy. I'm sure a lot of people are catching up on it here over the holidays. What's your opinion on the show so far 'cause you're you're the only authoritative voice here on it? I'm really enjoying it and I think I'm liking it more than others. And I think the criticism, the, my quick thing is, I think a lot of the criticism is that it feels different than Dune and that things don't feel as coalesced or as tight. The thing I'll say about Dune Prophecy, it's set 10,000 years before Dune, and it gives background on how a lot of the social structures and groups that are major players in the Dune movies and books actually came into being. So the criticism I'm hearing from a lot of folks is that it feels like Dune, but not as like tight, not as congealed. That's kind of the point, right?

4:06 It's like, let's go 10,000 years in the past and see how all these social structures and norms and heuristics originated. And like, it shouldn't feel as tight, right? It should feel a little different, but directionally similar. And that's what it feels like. I'm really enjoying it actually. And I'm enjoying it, I think more than than most, because I enjoy the large timelines on which the Dune IP operate. Well, and that's the beauty of a television series, right, is that it doesn't have to be as tight. Like, like Denny talks about how for him, the editing room is where he becomes most brutal with a movie because he he like it's like he is like cutting down his children when he throws them on the floor.

4:52 And ATV show you don't quite have to do that as much as like, yeah, we can leave it a little bit because we got two seasons, three seasons to work on this. Well, and Denis Villeneuve, you know, you know, famous for his brutality in the editing room. That's how you get down to a tight 2 hours and 47 minutes, you know, but. That said, we'll talk about this on the podcast. I'm sure one of my favorite actors currently working in Hollywood was entirely cut from the movie. Yes, because the director had to be brutal in the editing room. Because the story is so it's it's true, it's epic. It's epic in nature. It is the definition of an epic. You're talking, of course, about the extended cameo by Jerry Seinfeld, which I am talking about. Really controversial.

5:34 What's the deal with the spice? Is it a is it a Prague? Is it a seasoning? I can't do a Jerry Seinfeld impression, clearly. That was, that was great. That was, you know. What's what's Yeah, what's what's the deal with Space Guild food anyway, that's a real. Brad, a couple weeks ago we did District 9 on the podcast and talked and lamented a bit at that time about how we don't really do a lot of hard sci-fi on this podcast and we we broke down soft sci-fi versus hard sci-fi. This is like, this is probably the most intricate sci-fi world building and lore we've ever had from a Yeah, it's the hardest of all hard sci Fi's, yes. Here's here's Hurgid sci-fi.

6:24 It's I'm sorry as opposed agreeing to this, I'm so sorry this. Is only listen, this whole part is only Patreon because we need to get into the turgid versus flaccid sci-fi spectrum here. Go ahead, Brad. Here's the thing with Dune. I would say Part 1 and Part 2. I think that the reason it is so successful is because Denny wraps all of the hard sci-fi elements in this, in this mystical cinematography and sound design and it's just kind of flowing. And it almost feels like a slower version of a Terrence Malick film at times where it it's just this almost like a drug induced haze of a film that is masking like very, very deep sci-fi roots.

7:26 All right. Well, I think maybe the best place to start is to get into our first segment of the day, which we call, Brad explains. Brad's going to give us the movie plots with only 60 seconds taken on the clock, so let's go ahead and do your take with this little segment that we call, Brad explains. Brad Explains is the part of the show where Brad breaks down the plot of the film that he has just seen often for the 1st time. Brad, this was not your first time seeing Dune 2. I did convince you to go to the movie theater and see this film. One of my proudest moments, if I'm being honest. After failing to get me to see Oppenheimer in theaters. Or Dune Part 1, which I was really striking out on on huge scale movies. It would have been funny if you'd been like, you know what, I think I'm going to go see Barbie in IMAX. I think that's the movie that's going to get me there. But no, you saw Dune Part 2, so it's not your first time. However, there is, I think there's a short way to explain this movie and there's a very detailed way to explain this movie.

8:25 So I'm interested to see what you can cram into 60 seconds here. Folks, if you've not seen Dune Part 2, I'd encourage you to press pause, go watch this movie, and then come back and join us for the rest of the episode because Brad is going to spoil the hell out of it. So Brad the movie has not hit the Oscars yet. People are going to be catching up with this movie. Hopefully they'll return to this spoiler filled conversation afterwards. One minute on the clock and go. Dune Part 2 is a film that follows Paul Atreides and his mother as they are taken in by the Fremen after their entire house was slaughtered by the Harkins in the previous film. Paul learns how to be a Fremen warrior while the Fremen begin to slowly believe that he is the prophesied savior of their people that will bring prosperity back to the planet.

9:19 He falls in love with a Fremen woman named Chandri. Is that it Chani? Yes, Chani. And eventually follows his mother to the Deep South where there are is a large portion of fanatical Fremen where he knows that he will be made a profit, which he doesn't want, but he goes anyways. Drinks worm piss and man. He has all the visions and he unites the frammen under 1 banner, takes the Emperor of the Galaxy hostage, kills his champion and decides to wed his daughter so that he can rule a galactic empire. Boom Dune Part 2.

10:03 Not bad. Not bad at all, Brad. Thanks man. I'm going to throw over to our friend David. He's been patiently waiting, chomping at the bit over here. We sent our list of movies out to you and said take your pick of the litter here. And you said let's do Dune Part 2. So I'll let you set the stage for our conversation because I want to know what was the immediate attraction to Dune Part 2? Why this movie as opposed to any other? I think the I think it's because Dune Part 2 exists at that the center of that rare Venn diagram or the rare the small center of the Venn diagram of based on existing IPI really truly love and also fantastic execution.

10:45 Like I think that if you don't know, if you don't know anything about the Dune universe and you see Dune and then Dune Part 2, Dune Part 1 and Dune Part 2, I think you're getting a great two-part cinematic experience. And I think it's a fantastic introduction to a very complex world that Frank Herbert built and that really set the standard for sci-fi fantasy. I mean, you, you name it, it, it's it's, it's impossible to understate the cultural influence, the literary influence and the genre influence of the Dune universe. You combine that with the fact that this is just a really well done movie. It's hard to do. This isn't really a sequel. It's truly a Part 2, right?

11:25 These are two movies. The the first book, the book Dune was split across 2 movies. But it's really hard to do a second movie well. It's hard to do any movie well. And Dune to I think nails it. It's a sort of movie where I go into the theater. I love the IP. I've read the book multiple times. I've read the sequels. I've immersed myself in this and I've been on fan forums and I sit down and I'm nervous. I'm nervous about the execution and I'm nervous about what is not going to make it into the film, what has to be cut. But I didn't think throughout the entirety of the film. It wasn't until well after the film when I was thinking about, wait a minute, I think this character might have been cut, which is not a problem. But like during the film, I was not distracted by what didn't make it in.

12:11 It was immersed in the universe. And I think it's fantastic execution and I think it's rightly an Oscar contender, which is tough for sci-fi films. We don't see that happen. But this is a cinematic achievement and I am just so happy that this IP that I really grew up with and was, especially in high school, so obsessed with, is now in a mainstream form that does it justice, at least as as well as we can, right? I don't think anything replicates the universe and the world building you can do in your head when you're reading the book, right? But as far as a visual and audio representation on a big screen, I thought it was great. And you know, from casting all the way through execution to scoring, lovely.

13:00 So that's why it was like a no brainer. I was like, this is this is the one, right? This is it. I. Was going to say I I believe a rival would have been the last like serious sci-fi contender and I I know it. It didn't have a huge shot at winning Best Picture, but it was nominated at the very least. Well, yeah, and Dune Part 1 was nominated as well. And I think kind of controversially, it got a lot of what is called below the line nomination. So all of your crafts, you know, cinematography, costume designs, that design. Denis Val Neuf not nominated for best director for Dune Part 1, which was a huge controversy. Because if all of these things that add up to a cohesive vision do not point to a really, really smart and astute director behind the camera, I don't know what does. And, and just when you're talking about scale and scope of a film, I don't really know that anyone is doing it the way that Villeneuve is doing it right now. Like the the only real comparison is Nolan, but a Nolan film feels very different to a Villeneuve movie. And Brad, especially having just done Oppenheimer a couple months ago, Oppenheimer's a movie and I, I really want to tread lightly because I gave it a 10 out of 10. It's a great movie.

14:18 It's a movie that's made so much in the edit. Like there's so much of that that is, you know, relying upon callbacks to different time periods and jumping across timelines and kind of creating this overwhelming experience through the edit. Whereas I think Villeneuve is really good at just building massive sets and putting like really good at geography, making you feel the scale of someone that's this big against a sandworm. That's enormous. And I don't know that anyone has that kind of old school understanding of scale the way that Villeneuve does right now. I, I just want to interject and I, I would, I this is a yes. This is a yes.

14:59 And I don't think there since the original Star Wars series when we saw the death * and we had to get a sense of how big that was. Has anyone done physical scale this well in a major sci-fi film release? Right. Like, and there are multiple aspects of that could be the size of the sand worms. It could be the size of the Spacing Guild craft and you see how big these, you know, what's like 20 kilometer long spacecraft are relative to like the actual ships, the transport ships transporting people. Like the scale of everything is so to the Emperor's arrival ship, right, Which we see here.

15:50 I think a a challenge here is this movie has to have sci-fi elements, but it's also imperial. It has to have pomp and circumstance, right? And so you look at this and you're like, oh, I'm seeing a lot that reminds me of Star Wars. But then you look at the original Star Wars series and I'm sure there have been books written about this Star War. It's, it's arguable like, could Star Wars exist if it weren't for the Dune books, right? The answer is maybe not. Right 'cause Dune was first. They were the first to do this operatic epic scale sci-fi world building. Yeah, and it's well documented that Lucas was a huge fan of the books. I think that another good comparison point and one that I'd really like to pick Brad's brain on a little bit is this both literarily and cinematically as a comparison point to The Lord of the Rings.

16:42 I think this is probably the most intricate, like I've already said, the the phrase intricate world building, but especially from a sci-fi or fantasy film spread across multiple movies done on this scale. It's the first time this has really happened since Lord of the Rings. Like you could argue Harry Potter a little bit, but I just think that we're not talking about quite the global scale that, you know, Lord of the Rings or Dune is operating on. And I think that there's a lot to dive in on here. And I've got some great Nuggets from my research about like what Tolkien thought of the Dune books and everything else. But Brad, as a fan of Lord of the Rings, as a super fan of Lord Lord of the Rings, the Dune story, does it grip you in the same way as a Lord of the Rings does? I don't think it does.

17:36 I oh man, that it's such a hard comparison, Bob. I Tolkien was way less interested in the internal lives of his characters. Like at the end of the day, Tolkien was way more fascinated by the external forces of the world around it of like what's going on in Middle Earth and these larger than life characters who are like utilizing their will to shape the world in a way that they see fit. And you see Sauron do that in negative ways and you see Gandalf and Aragorn do that in powerful ways for good. And you know, the, the movies, I will say, show way more of the struggle internally for Frodo and Sam and Aragorn and, and all, all of these characters Ferromir, right? Like one of the most famous differences from the books to the movies is that Ferromir doesn't even come close to being tempted by the ring in the books. And I actually think that that's a good a good comparison to bring up because talking believed in good people being good and that they're not necessarily tempted by the darkness.

18:58 And like Frank Herbert essentially was like, no, that's not true. Everybody is tempted by the darkness. Everybody is tempted by power. What will we do to gain control of it? Now, I will say, David, you're more the expert on June here. I have not read those books, but from the comparisons I've seen of Lord of the Rings, the Dune, as you were alluding to Bob about your research, Tolkien hated. Dude not a fan of books he. Did not like those books. And I, I think it comes down to that. They just had a different underlying foundational view on humanity and the world and and all of those things.

19:40 Yeah, I mean, they're written to two entirely different historical context too, even though they're only, you know, 20 years apart at the most. But Tolkien is writing immediately post war when he and Lewis are trying to extrapolate their own beliefs and reframe this fight that they have seen on a continental and global scale of good versus evil, and to reaffirm what they believe to be the good and the good that is inside of everybody and which is worth fighting for. And it does not, obviously, it is not hindered at all by the fact that. Tolkien and Lewis are both avowed Christians, and so there are tons of Christian themes in the Lord of the Rings books. Herbert, on the other hand, is writing 1520 years later, and he's a little bit disillusioned with what America is doing at the dawn of the military industrial complex. He doesn't like what we're doing to kind of position ourselves to get oil.

20:39 He looks at new drugs like LSD, and he's writing, I mean, he's kind of a contemporary of, of authors like Ken Kesey, who's writing One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest about LSD at this time as well. It's a much more cynical, not quite nihilistic, but just really emotionally cold tale. And you can see why Tolkien wouldn't like it. And I guess I'm wondering how that affects your enjoyment of this adaptation, Brad and David, because I think that it is, it perfectly captures the cold, calculating kind of castle intrigue politics that Herbert is getting at in a way that appeals to fans of shows like Game of Thrones.

21:28 Like it it it's right in line with shows like that. I. Was just going to say this like this so clearly points towards a Game of Thrones like belief about the world than it does ACS Lewis Tolkienesque view of the world. And I, I, I think it's fascinating because I actually think that Dune Part 2 at the very least leans less into the cynicism and more into a belief mindset like a a token type mindset then maybe Herbert would have been intended it to. I mean, obviously the nerve is making it, but like for me that especially this time through, I was struck by the end of the film when Paul's mother essentially tells the former like head of her order, the been a Jesuit witches. I don't know, space witches, coven, Coven I mean. That's, that's what they're referred. That's like, how do you insult them? You call them like witches or something, like yeah, yeah. Sure.

22:32 I I apologize, Ben. A Jesuit. I'm not trying to offend you. Don't make me do things. But like, at the end of it, she tells her, like, you chose the wrong side. And she goes, ah, there's never a side. There's only survival essentially. And like, that's the core tension for me of this film is that Paul continues to say, I don't believe in your BS missionary like propaganda proselytizing. I just want to fight and win this war on my father's behalf. But at the end of the film, and you know, I don't know where Part 3 or, or Messiah or whatever he's going to call it is going to be.

23:13 But this film at the very least seems to say that believing in something is more powerful than being cynical. That it's it's when Paul finally believes in the prophecy, he goes and drinks the water of Life and his eyes are opened that that is the better way than the cynical, We're all just here fighting our own battles type of view. I'm going to say we have polar opposite readings of the end of this film, Brad, but that's that's good. It's going to be good for conversation. I might also be just be more because I I understand like where the arc of the the do novels goes from here, but I was going to kind of try to set the stage for the rest of the episode by saying the coldness and the sort of emotional arm's length Ness of this overall story, I think continues to be for me, the biggest fault in the in these stories.

24:13 And it's purposeful and I think that Villeneuve captures it so well. But there is there is just something that I can't breakthrough with with the Dune films that I appreciate them and I thoroughly enjoy them. But like, I'm not going to come back to them to the extent that I do something that captures my emotions and my heart the way that like a Lord of the Rings does. And again, that's not the intention of these films. But I think especially when you start comparing them, there is something about the they couldn't have made these movies successfully back when David Lynch was trying to do them or in the 1990s. And I don't think it's a technological thing. I think it's because we were just a fundamentally different people then and in the wake of 9/11 and all of the wars that we've had since then, this is like, this is the sci-fi movie for our times.

25:05 And I just constantly keep asking myself, what does it say about us that this is what we resonate with now? Do you know what I mean? Wow. Episode done. Wow, it's a good Bob. Bob nailed it, folks, like we did. We did No, but David, for real, you know, you're the dune expert here and I'm I don't want you to be the stand in for the American people. But oh, I'm happy to be the stand in for that. Let's do that. Let me speak for everyone now. OK, my here's my reaction. I think that I think actually, I actually don't think you all are necessarily coming from polar opposite perspectives here because I think that there is, I think Brad is speaking to a reaction from watching this film as someone who's not intimately familiar with the IP. And Bob, I think you are someone who who knows a bit more about the arc of where this goes, right? And that's one thing that makes the Dune series really great. And when I was reading these, when I was reading them, I really enjoy as a young person.

26:07 I really enjoy that because I enjoy the arc. And for me it was telegraphed but somehow still not predictable, right? Like the entire setup is about a golden path for humanity and about having future sight, right? At this, at the same time, the book series actually has has is a progression of interesting reveals, even if the characters can literally see into the future, right? Which I think is no small feat literally. And I think that it's a testament to the fact that Frank Herbert was also quite a great writer and quite a great storyteller, as much as I think some of his contemporaries or the generation right before, for lack of a better term, kind of Pooh poohed him a little bit, right? I think that his reveals and the way he set up and the way he actually constructed narratives was really quite interesting. So you all are kind of saying different things. But I think again, that's that's that's the path of the reader. And that's the path of someone who has to go through this story and experience this story because so much of this is internal.

27:08 So much of the writing of Dune, and it occurs in the later books as well, but it's especially pointing in the 1st 2:00. It is internal monologue. It is very different than Tolkien, right? Like it was brought up earlier. Tolkien didn't super care about the internal thoughts or depth of his characters necessarily. He was kind of writing for the plot more. I don't want to that might be an oversimplification, but Herbert Oh, so much is happening in the mind, right? So much is happening in Paul's mind, in Lady Jessica's mind, right in Paul's sister's mind, like in we see, we see this happen with his characters and later on his children and the successive progressions of these folks who have the power of future sight.

27:51 So what I'll say is I don't think what you're saying are, are two things that are opposed. I think it's, it's an illustration of how good the progression of this narrative really can be. And the last thing I'll say is survival. I think we can all where where we can link these is that this is ultimately about pragmatism and survival in many ways. There are a lot of themes in Dune. I'm not trying to distill it down to just those two. But if you look at Dune and not as a singular book, but as a 5000 year arc over the course of Herbert and his son's writings, who kind of kind of finished the narrative in in controversial fashion, I will say it is about survival. How does humanity survive against weapons of its own creation and against its awful instincts? Because we are a self-destructive species, right? Is there a way for us to survive as our power grows and as the power of our creation grows?

28:47 And for me, that's what I take away ultimately from doom. There are a lot of other themes. So if we can all agree that this is a story of survival and the question does humanity actually make it long term, I think there's a lot of common ground and different evolutions of that understanding. Yeah, and the way you're talking about it makes it sound like this might be the ultimate Cold War novel. Yeah. Or series I should say. I think it's especially poignant too, because right now we're so everything. You can't turn on the news or read anything without hearing about AI. Herbert's stroke, one of his strokes a genius was to say, OK, we're gonna set up a universe in which that's banned, right?

29:34 We're gonna set up a universe. We don't have droids. We don't have thinking machines thinking. And in fact, it's the whole point of the plot. It's it's outlined in the Orange Bible, which is like the tome for the Dune universe, for the people in it. You know, thou shall not make a machine in the likeness of the human mind, right? And Herbert was literally generations ahead of so many authors and being like, well, that's a consideration in the earliest phases of the computer age. He was already thinking about the ramifications of that. Right? This is pre Matrix. Do you get the Matrix without Dune? No, you know, no, no hate to the Wachowskis. Dude the the scene when Paul is in the chamber with millions of Fremen, like all I could see was like oh this is a better version of is it Matrix 2 I think that has that. And similarly, what Doom Prophecy, which I'm watching right now, gives more of the back story Doom Prophecy set like 100 and some 120 years after the war with the Thinking machines.

30:36 And by the way, I don't wanna give too many spoilers, but the relevance of the danger of thinking machines becomes a central plot point, a more central plot point in subsequent Dune novels. So the further you go into the sequels, the more you understand why Herbert kind of set that. Up I think I think that's one of the brilliances of this, at least the visual adaptations, you know, and and what Herbert did was by D technologizing some of it like he just made for a really cool universe where people stab each other with swords instead of just shoot each other with bullets.

31:16 Like I somehow he's created this world where I readily believe that they can be shooting down helicopters with like RPGs and also need to fight in hand to hand combat. Like that's. So cool he he does kind of do this day. I think it's I, I, I should know this on the top of my head. I think it's called the Holtzman effect, which is where like, oh, that's the thing that explains we figured out levitation. We figured out like space-time folding and we figured out it figured out invisible Shields. And it's all due to this one thing that we haven't discovered yet, right? And like that explains all the technology that we can't comprehend right now. It's just like all of it is kind of just figured out by this thing that he never goes into detail on, which you kind of have to do, right? At a certain point you kind of have to be like, here's a plot device stunt.

32:07 Guys, before we get to break, I want to pull us out of our super nerdy sci-fi conversation here and let's talk about the cinematic merits of the film. We've talked about Villeneuve a little bit. I think we should just kind of dive into the cast because where I really want to take the back half of the episode is exploring the moral and ethical quandaries that are presented, especially by Paul, that I think that's where Herbert's story is the most unique and significantly different from what you get with Tolkien. This idea that he may or may not actually be a Messiah, or he may be one that has wholly manufactured his own savior ship and how dangerous that might be. And I think that that is, it's been such a long time since we've had a protagonist who makes potentially very evil decisions at the end of his own hero's arc in this film. But in order to talk about that, we got to talk about the performances.

33:03 And I say we start right at the top here with Timothy Chalamet. Now, I just went to a press screening of his new film that's just come out called A Complete Unknown, in which he plays Bob Dylan. It's a good film, and he does a good Dylan. And then I watched this movie again, and I am once again reminded that Oscar voters often go for the keys that are being jingled in front of them. This is a better performance than his Bob Dylan, and he is, I'm like legitimately spectacular. The last 40 minutes of the movie are what I'm going to rave about the entire time we're talking. But specifically with Chalamet's performance from the time he wakes up after drinking the water of life and he has the scene where he confronts all the Fremen in a theater on the round type environment.

33:52 And like, everything after that is just, it might be the best 40 minutes of acting I've ever seen from Chalamet. It's absolutely Oscar caliber acting, Brad. The final 40 minutes, yes. The rest of the film? Not even close. What? I I think Chalamet is so weak in so many parts of this movie. Oh. Brad. He and Zendaya don't have good chemistry. You see these things so dogmatically as if they are the predominant opinion on these things. They have like moments together, but there's so many places of awkward dialogue, which I think if there's one thing for me, some of the dialogue in this movie is just straight up bad.

34:42 And I I don't think that Chalamet or Zendaya or anybody else can really redeem it. I think that the two weakest performances of this film are Chalamet and Zendaya. Everybody else in this movie is like top notch, incredible. I I just Brad, I I really like you so much. Do it. Finish him. I really The thing is, I really like like you're. So you're much better than Bob. No, I'm kidding. I love you both. Obviously. I'm joking. I'm joking. I've, I fundamental, I disagree with that. I'm sorry. I, I don't, I don't know if it's my turn to speak, but I, I disagree with that.

35:25 I think Chalamet and Zendaya, I think Zendaya's performance is actually extraordinarily nuanced. And I think she has a real challenge of of like she has to, we have to show both of these are young people who are coming of age and falling in love for the first time with universe shattering or shaking consequences. And they have to balance this like youthful finding yourself post pubescent. Who am I self discovery with like an order of magnitude of importance more than we, we, you know, folks face. And and I think there's a lot of nuance to her performance. I think it's like there's a scene where she has to, and I think this is really brilliant of, of the creative team to include this where she like plays a little joke on him, right?

36:14 And she's like kind of schoolgirl talking with her friends and making fun of him, right? Which is like a nice little moment of levity. It's a little Helga Pataki making fun of Arnold, you know what I mean? And then we find her fear of falling in love, but also we see her becoming disillusioned while everyone else is buying into the savior complex and the Messiah complex, right? And that's a lot of weight. And I just want to point out one thing. I love face acting. And it's something that like is, is or is not a real thing. But the scene, there is a scene toward the end of the movie where there's like a premonition of the future after the the holy war. And after Paul's forces win the holy war that kills trillions across the universe, there's a scene of him and Zendaya's character and some other characters standing on, like, this ship while they're overlooking this planet that has been conquered. And like, you wanna see good subtle face acting? Look at Zendaya in that scene, right? So I think that she, I think it's a role that's impossible to do perfectly because she has to convey such an arc, falling like maturing, falling in love, getting disillusioned, kind of falling out of love, but also wrestling with the fact that like, does she say is she more effective in curbing the negative effects of this by staying close to Paul? It's so much to balance.

37:38 And I was really impressed by her performance. I'm not sure it's the best acting I've seen from Timothy, but I really enjoyed the performance. I thought it was really good. I think it is award nomination consideration worthy. I think for me, one of the struggles with Timothy is that in moments, like I said, when he's in the round doing his talk to everybody, he's incredible. But the rest of the film, and maybe this was intentional, but every single time he ever raises his voice and tries to be like a leader of some sort, I just found myself going like, dude, you can't pull that off. It's just not there.

38:19 I, I, I don't know if that was just me, I really struggled with with him throughout. I do think that if Zendaya, I think that her and Timothy are fine together. I think when the cameras just shoved up into her face, her eyes are incredible. Like she has a real talent to move the viewer with her eyes. Yeah, I I agree with both of you about Zendaya, especially because she was in a movie at the beginning of the year called Challengers, a really great movie by Luca Guadagnino. And I to this day, I think it's the best lead female performance I've seen all year.

39:01 I think she's getting completely left out of awards consideration, but in that was. That the tennis movie. Yes, fantastic movie. One of my good friends is a sucker for three things. Like in films, he loves tennis, he loves Zendaya and he loves love triangles. And when they came out, when they came out with that trailer, he texted me and he was like, they've made the perfect movie for me. I. Was going to say if if his fourth favorite thing was strong homoerotic themes then that movie is like absolutely up his alley. That he didn't mention those, but I who knows? Well, based on the director, like those are things that are besides tennis, those are all things that are kind of themes in that director.

39:44 'S Cat exactly. So I, I think she's so good in that movie because she's she's almost playing older than she is in parts of it, but it's also like a 15 year spanning film. And so at the beginning of the film she's playing like a 17 year old. And I think her ability to not tip into caricature when she's playing a disillusioned 30 something or a really young ingenue type. Is really, really stellar and she does it here as well. To Brad's point, I think our supporting cast, which if you guys don't mind it, just indulge me for a second if I can just read this cast list. So Timothy Chalamet and Zendaya, followed by an order of credits. Rebecca Ferguson, Josh Brolin, Stellen Skarsgard, Dave Batista, Charlotte Rampling, Javier Bardem, Austin Butler, Florence Pugh, Christopher Walken, and Leia Seidu. Maybe the best cast assembled for anything that's not a Marvel IP in the 21st century.

40:46 The I want to give a quick, just a quick pour one out. Actually, you know, I'm going to open my Bushmills. Will I do this and make it a literal pour one out, crack the seal on the sample bottle. Pour one out for Tim Blake Nelson, who was in the movie but whose scenes were cut. And I was personally, I'm not saying it wasn't correct, but I was personally excited when I saw the casting news. No, David, come out and say it. You know more than Denny about. Whiskey, maybe, you know, but even that's debatable. I don't know. I don't, I don't know the man, no. Tim Blake Nelson was originally in the movie. I believe the scenes were filmed. Those were cut along with a few other folks. He just happens to be an actor that I have a particular affinity for.

41:37 Oh, brother, where art. That was my favorite film of all time. So that's that's just my that's just what I have to say about that. And the other thing this is a spoiler spoiler alert. Fast forward 30 seconds if you don't want a spoiler. Anya Taylor Joy in a brief cameo as as Paul's sister, which I got to be honest, I'm not. That wasn't my favorite part of the movie. If I have to point to 1 weakness in the movie, how? Cause like in the book, she's actually born and like is like 3 years old, three or four years old at the end of the book, but they've just decided to take her this very packed movie. And I think it was actually a good call. I think it was a good call to not have her as like a significant character in this book. And we're gonna see her maybe in future movies. But in the book, she's born and has an active role in the plot. In the movie, she does not.

42:27 It's just kind of like like, you know, future sight scene and it's more of a cameo you. Said she's three. I just like I have a three that just turned 4 year old. I just like to see her like running around the desert telling grown adults what to do. Well, that's like if you guys, I don't think you guys have seen the David Lynch film. Yes. I have multiple times and they did that in the David Lynch film. She's like a three. She's a real creepy 3 year old and and you know, you know what? They accomplished making her real creepy. Yeah, yeah. Brad, what what I would like for you to do is follow your newly 4 year old around with the microphone so that we can get little transitionary statements of her saying Dune things like just getting her. It's, it's the quiz at Tatarak.

43:19 It's Muadeeb. We'll just throw those in in between each of our segments, you know? All right, I'm ready. And Brad, this is this is interesting like again, this is a spoil. This is a book spoiler book spoiler. In the book Paul Sister, 3 year old Paul Sister, she's the one who kills Baron Harkonnen. Let's freaky I would go read those books now. Like as a three-year old. Yeah, yeah. The thing that was keeping Brad was the assumed lack of child murders in this in the book series. But child murders in that it's the children doing the murdering, yes. The children getting important, important. All right, guys, I think this is a good place to press pause. Otherwise, we're about to go way off the rails.

44:00 Child murders. Great place to push pause, Bob. We'll. Come back after break, we'll talk about the supporting cast. We'll get into all the ethical quandaries as well. But it's time for us to drink a very expensive whiskey. Brad, what do you say? No. Twist my arm, Bob. All right everybody, today we are drinking Bushmills 30. Now this, as one might guess, is a 30 year old Irish whiskey that Bushmills has recently released. I believe, Bob, we are getting into some rarefied air here. We certainly are.

44:44 And just a peek behind the curtain, we told David what we had planned to drink for this episode. I don't think he had it on hand. And knowing that the guy has a lot of whiskey on hand, I just sent him a list of all the whiskeys we'd plan to drink in the next 8 weeks or so. And he said, oh, Bushmills 30 sounds good. Let me contact my Bushmilts guy. And I don't know what magic he worked, what been adjusterate schemes he's been up to in the background, but he was able to secure his own sample of Bushmills 30 single malt. Now there is also a Bushmills 29 year that we'll be trying next week and that is called Bushmills 29 year Rare Cask. So there's a difference between just the rare cask and the single malt. We're drinking that 30 year old variety here today, Brad.

45:26 This was aged in bourbon barrels and Sherry butts for 14 years, taken out of those barrels and then finished again in first fill PX Sherry casks for an additional 16 years. And I have to say that of all the Irish whiskeys we have ever tried on this podcast, this is by far the darkest in color. Brad, Oh. Far and away the darkest in color and Bob. I was actually thinking with with so many things like finished in PX casks, I want to like, I don't know how rare it is. I want to actually get my hands on some Pedro Jimenez Sherry sometime and and try it because I feel like with so many things finished in it I I need to know what is the the OG juice actually like? Well, I'm sure David's got APX guy that he can hook us up with. I was just saying we can make that happen. I'm not coughing because I'm not coughing because of this. I'm coughing because I have the where winter allergies. I do want to give a quick shout out. I, I reach out to, there's a, there's a group called Articulate, which is a lot of the PR for Bushmills in the US. And I reached out to my contact there knowing they were at Bushmills and they were super excited about this. And they were just like, how can we like, how can we help? And they just messengered this sample of Bushmills sturdy. The best thing was they asked like, wait, Bushmill's 30 like they they were like they wanted to get it right. They're like, do you want the, the, the quote UN quote regular single, single maul.

46:59 Do you want the rare cast? Like they want to make sure we I got the exact right thing. So shout out to them because like, this is not a a whiskey that you just find every every day, you know, and also, I just want to point out I'm especially excited because I do review a good bit of Irish whiskey. I've I've been to I've been to an I've covered and as a member of the media, a number of distilleries in person in Ireland. Most of the Irish whiskey that I do quote UN quote work with like review, it's actually Irish single pot still, which is a different type of whiskey than a single malt, right. Bushmills. They they are, they make single they are, they only make single malt, right? And so I don't get to review their products as much as I maybe would like.

47:48 I don't get to review Irish single malt as much as I like. It's one of the styles of Irish whiskey, of which there are several and you know, one that I don't get to cover as much. So super excited about it. Yeah, and let it be known as the purveyors of budget whiskeys that we are. We were not making you try the rare cast. We're just the, you know, the the bottom shelf. 30 year Bushmills here. I could have found rare cast. I just want to be clear here. I could have, OK, you know, unless you're if you're calling me out, that's. Funny, man. All right, guys, let's dive in. Brad, let's let's hear your nosing notes. I think you drank it right before we pressed record tonight. I'm trying it live on air alongside David. So I'm going to stick my nose in this class now. Yeah, this is a beautiful nose, Bob for me. There's a really nice bit of almond throughout. It's got dried cherry.

48:42 It has that that the PX kind of a sweet grape kind of nose. There's a bit of melon here, and it all has a nice little foundation of barley throughout. I think this is an incredible nose. 9 out of 10. Yeah, I'm, I'm there with you, man. This has an really deep, rich decadence to it that we don't typically get on Irish whiskey. I mean, we've also done a lot of really young or blended Irish whiskeys as well. So this is obviously in a different category. But even among those, you don't usually get this much caramel this much. You know what it reminded me of Brad, honestly, was a couple years ago, we did the Amroot fusion, which had this note of like stewed plum on it, like really heavy, like date plum prune. It's syrupy sweet.

49:35 It's got Maple on it. I, I mean, obviously I think it's coming from those, those bourbon ex bourbon cast that was sitting in, but there is just wave after wave of really dark, carmally syrupy notes going on here. I'm going to give it a 9.5 Brad. I, I, I think you all get great notes. You know, Brad, I get a, you say almond. I get kind of an almond extract note here, particularly Bob to your notes about, you know, it's like dates. We get black raisins. I get Luxardo cherry for me, the note that I often use for really good single malts with some good PX influence, like if they go a really good direction, I get a lot of figgy pudding, right?

50:16 And figgy pudding is not something that like I have eaten. But I just want to be clear. I don't like make it every holiday, but it's it's it's just looks like Nexus of dark and fruity and decadent and rich, but also sweet and confectionery a little bit. And so I don't really have much to add. I'm just kind of yes, Anding really what you all are saying here. And for me that kind of coalesces is like, honestly, like flombed figgy pudding, right? With like you just lit it on fire and you get some of that like extra care, alcohol, caramelization, caramelization, loveliness. Yeah, I really, really enjoy this. And you know, Brad, to your, to your point, I do get the underlying molt that's not lost from the wood influence, which is really, really lovely. You know, for me nose wise, I'm, I'm, I'm gonna say it's like high eights for me, probably probably a nine. See, I'm used to doing stuff also on 100 point scale for like spirits competitions.

51:10 The 10 point scale is very different, so I'm just gonna round up and say A9 on this. It's it's really lovely. I have been lucky to have some of the rare cast expressions from Bushmills and some of those I would rate the nose even even a little bit more, but you really can't ask for much more than this on the nose. This is like, really, really good stuff. Yeah, I and that's, that's for me. I, I think that David, your expansive whiskey is going to lead to a slightly lower score than us. And I, I think that's probably a good thing because I am quite effusive about this. I I texted Bob earlier and was like dude, I drank this Bushmills 30 and dear sweet Jesus.

51:54 I I, I one thing I will want to say on the nose this listen, a lot of folks in Scots like the poo poo Irish single malt and they shouldn't be poo pooing Irish single malt because it's it can be really, really spectacular and it can punch right, right up there with the best. And I have no some cherry finished in like really good, like legendary single estate pork pipe scotches that are 40 plus years old and have really lovely like PX influence. And this is right up there with them. This 30 year old Iris single mole is right up there with some of the really expensive, incredibly highly regarded, super rare charried 40 plus year old scotches I've I've reviewed or sampled in the past couple years.

52:40 So like it's, it's good stuff. I'm. Going to go as fast as I can with my tasting notes here. Brad, this is only a 46% ABV whiskey, but it had, it's a flavor bomb and I will say incredible prickliness on the tongue here. I, I would you could have convinced me this was much higher proof than it is. What I'll say about it is all the notes that we identified on the nose are here on the palate. You do get a slight bitterness from the malt, but what I love about this is that it doesn't turn into a burnt or ashy flavor at the back. It's not overly oaked and the bitterness actually presented for me. I've been making these a lot lately. One of my favorite whiskey cocktails is called the Brown Derby, which is a bourbon and grapefruit juice cocktail. I get notes of grapefruit on the back of this. It's not overly bitter, it's not pithy, but it it brings a note of kind of slightly sour, bitter citrus to the party that covers up for what might have otherwise tasted a little bit too charred. I'll give it a nine on the on the taste bread. Yeah, I think that this palate is like near perfection for me. Like the raisins really come through. The melon is there.

53:52 I I put grapefruit as like one of my key elements of this. And once again, the barley is there and it has like a, for me, the almond almost moved into like a hazelnut like like praline almost kind of vibe. I'm at a 10 out of 10 on this flavour, Bob. I think it is everything I want in a whiskey. I, I like the I prefer the palate to the nose. I love the nose. I want to be very clear here. I think the palate's even better. You know, Bob, I, I get that you kind of predisposed me. For me, it's grapefruit candy specifically, not great. Like there's these specific small grapefruit candies that I used to love as a kid that really reminds me of, I think the palate.

54:39 I there's AI have a moment on the mid palate where I'm worried that this is going to go too dry and it's gonna be a little too maybe ashy get into too much like dry wine territory. But what it does instead, it blossoms with tropical fruit led by grapefruit, but with also some some papaya and guava. And you said prickly, but I also get prickly pear cactus fruit on this or prickly pear on this, which is actually is something that I do eat occasionally 'cause it's like a bodega near me has it weirdly cheap. So I'll just like buy a bunch of them. So this is I love when single malts, like when they they blossom into tropical fruit, like kind of after the mid palette and it really carries through for just this like bright, vibrant finish.

55:23 And this really does. So you know, on the pallet on A10 point scale, I you know, I'm like a 9.4 maybe on this maybe 9.5. It's this whiskey like shows up and then holds its own through the entire through the entire phase of the sample. Absolutely, yeah. And continue to get through on to the finish. I think there's a creaminess that develops as well. Like the grapefruit is the predominant note that I'm left with. But again, it doesn't tip into like a really bitter grapefruit kind of pith flavor. And it's not overly sweet, but I think that's where the viscosity really like takes over is on the finish for me.

56:04 It's a really long mouth watering finish. I get a little bit. Do you remember those candies we've referenced a couple times, Brad Cream Savers. They're like the Lifesavers with the little swirls in them. It's it's like that with a nice little hit of grapefruit juice on top of it. Once again, I'm going to be pretty high on this. I do think I'll come down just a hair to an 8 1/2 out of 10 here. I I think the finish reminds me of an Aldi's chocolate that my wife really likes. It's a dark chocolate with orange peel in it. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Like that. Like there that I was, I was sitting here after I drank it and I was just kind of enjoying the finish and I was like, oh, it's that dark chocolate with orange. It's so, so good.

56:50 The there's still hazelnut in there for me. The grapefruit sticks around the the raisins stick around for me. It finally fell into that like plum category on the finish. I'm I'm still really high on this. I'm at a nine out of 10 on the finish. I'm. Coming down just a little for the finish, but I thought the finish was still very good. You also predisposed. I like going last because I can just RIP off of what you all say and it makes me sound like a better taster than I am. You know those chocolate oranges, the table you got around the holiday that you like hit on the table to open? Yes, okay, if you made one with grapefruit instead of orange. That's what this is like on the finish. Do you remember those Guinness commercials from back in the day with the cartoon characters that would just shout brilliant, Yeah.

57:37 Like the two? Yeah, yeah, yeah. That we need to pitch that to the Terry's Corporation over in England and just they need to have a grapefruit one now that sounds fantastic. But it's just this is this. I do get a little grapefruit pith on this and I don't mind that, you know, I get a tiny, tiny bit of minty and menthol on this. It's due some action. There's some fun action on the upper palate, actually, which I get, which surprised me a little bit. You know, it's not the best finish I've had on an Irish single malt. I've had some Bushmills finishes that are actually a little more memorable for this. But again, when I'm coming down back down to like a nine, this is still a better finish than the vast majority of whiskeys I'll ever taste. You know what I mean?

58:23 And weirdly, the finish has some things in common. I I tasted the Stranahan Snowflake release for this year. Recently I had a call with their blender, Justin. Great guy and I'm only mentioning that because it's another Proximo company and I'm going to stay in portfolio here. So everyone's going to be really happy with me on the brand side, right? I'm not going to mention anything out of portfolio, right Stranahan's Bushmills, both Proximo brands company, you know they're going to love Hopefully they'll like me for that. Justin is a great blender. I think some of the things I got on this year's snowflake as far as like the drier pithier fruit on the finish. I'm, I'm, there's like, I'm getting a little bit of that here, right? And so I've been drinking a lot of American single malt lately and it's really cool to see some notes that I'm getting in really phenomenal multi decade age single malts from abroad. And I'm able to tie those to notes in really high end super premium single malts from American single malt makers, right?

59:24 For me, that's like, that's really cool. And something that five years ago would have been maybe next to impossible. Yeah. You know, when we get into the balance here, folks, if you, if you're new to listening to our podcast, by the way, the way we talk about balance, think of it as cohesiveness and especially in the first 3 categories. So from the nose to the taste to the finish, was any one of those kind of wildly out of whack with the other three? And I don't think they were. I think this is actually a spectacularly well balanced whiskey. I'm getting, I'm still getting notes that are coming up on the finish. You know, like when you go to like a hibachi restaurant and they give you the little slivers of ginger on the side of your meal. Like I'm getting ginger on this, which is something that I never get on Irish whiskey.

1:00:07 I just. Got Cafe cream, like Cafe Creme or cafe cream, just a tiny bit of coffee, but with that milkiness that you were referencing. Bob, I also want to point like I, I have my notes, like my tasting notes, how I would rate a whiskey. There's also a crush ability factor, like do you just want to do you just want to drink the ever loving crap out of? This crushability factor here is very hot. Off the charts. Like I literally was sitting here when I finished. Just hold it. You know how like you hold a bottle to like get every last drop into your glass? I was holding the glass so that I could get every lost drop into my mouth. Absolutely, man. And I think that I was ready to kind of come into this part of the review and say it's not the most nuanced or the most complex whiskey we've ever had.

1:00:54 But especially when you're thinking about the Irish whiskey's that we reviewed on this podcast, Brad, I think it's at the top or near the top for Irish whiskey. And I think that the more I talk about it, the more notes I keep finding in it. So it's almost like, you know, the little engine that could hear it. It's just funny because you would think that I wouldn't have to talk about it like it's punching above its weight. It's a 30 year old single malt. I think the balance here is really, really great. I'm going to give it a 9.5 out of 10. Brad, what are you at? I'm at a 9.5 as well. I I think that this is complex and rich and yet every single note that we get is a river that runs well together like that. There's no Rapids, there's nothing throwing you off course. It's all working together so so Oh well. How does this tasting experience approximate the sensation of riding a sandworm?

1:01:47 That's really what we should be. That's the. Scale we should be. That is a great question. Bob, you, you. You picked a big one like in Dune 2 when he asked to ride the sandworm for the first time and he picks a big one. How would Shai Haloud think of this whiskey? That's what we really need to be asking. David, where are you at numerically on the balance here? I'm I'm just a little bit below you guys and it's not because this isn't a stellar, stellar whiskey. It's because like I feel like I've been lucky to kind of see the mountain top of what Bushmills can do. And I know they can. They can produce some things that as great as this is, stick with me with punch, but elegance, like even slightly more so for me, I'm probably a 9.4.

1:02:31 I just want to point out though, the crushability factor here is rare. Like I reviewed some whiskeys that are off the charts good and I rate very highly and I just like sit with 1/2 ounce of them for like an hour. This is a whiskey where my glass is basically empty now and I'm like, when do I get to pour some more, right? This is just whiskey I want to drink. So there's like this X Factor there that my numerical rating is like underselling it a little bit, even though my numerical rating is extraordinarily high. This is a great whiskey, guys. This is a great whiskey, Yeah. And with, with our final category here, David, we normally do our value category and we give a price and we will give the price on this whiskey.

1:03:14 But it is falling within our our luxury category, which essentially for us is like, but for a lot of people, once you hit three $400.00, the upwards range of the price might not start to matter as much As for somebody who's used to spending 30 and looking at a 70 or $80.00 bottle, you know what I mean? Yeah, there's, there's really no cost is not an obstacle at this point if you're looking at buying this whiskey. And So what we've kind of done at this point when we're reviewing luxury whiskeys and Brad, I'm finding this around $2000 online just as a baseline, I'll say 2 grand. If you're, if you're already looking at spending two grand on a whiskey, we know that you can afford to spend 2 grand on a whiskey. And so we usually come in with a baseline of five out of 10 and can go up or down from there.

1:04:05 I think I'm going to go up from 5 out of. Ten. You usually come out with a 5 out of 10 baseline. Speaking for the both of us, we're, we're at a 5 out of 10, but I, I do think that among luxury categories here, we're not actually comparing this to like all the $2000 whiskey's we've had. Which one's the best? Is this a product that can justify costing this much? Absolutely. Based on the market, based on the actual amount of liquid left in the barrels after 30 years, yes. They I don't feel like they're price gouging. I don't feel like there's anything gimmicky happening here. I'm going to give this a 7 1/2 out of 10, Brad, just because I don't know that I can go really higher than that. If you're already thinking about spending two grand on this whiskey, you don't need my endorsement for it. No, I, I, I will give my endorsement for it. I think this is a nine out of 10 value, Bob. Wow.

1:04:58 Like I know it's $2000.00 but if I were to ever spend $2000 on a whiskey I know what I would be spending it on. So like that. Like for me that just once again I have not drank nearly as many $2000 plus whiskeys nor has Bob as as have you David. So like I am a OK with knowing that my score is based on a smaller sample size, but for me I think this is a great value. What I will say is in the scheme of in the grand scheme of like 30 year old single malts, you'll see a lot that are more expensive than that.

1:05:39 And I think this is frankly better than a lot of more expensive single malts. You know, I'm going to probably say value wise, value is something I actually rarely asked to put that in review. So I am actually, I feel much less qualified to talk about monetary value than you guys because I'm actually often asked to just ignore that. Even if I want to factor it in, I'll probably say 8 on this because I think this is a whiskey that you're not going to be. It's impossible to be disappointed with this whiskey, right? This is a truly, truly special whiskey. I think you can pay much more for whiskey that's not nearly as good. Frankly, it's great stuff. 1 little plug I want to give, I'm not paid by Bushmills by the way, I want to point out like I did not accept money from Bushmills. They sent me this.

1:06:24 I have AI have a contact at the PR, at their PR agency of record. They sent me this. I'm very thankful for that. But like I will you know, look at this like I do any other liquid. One thing I like I will say is you want, if you don't want to spend $2000.00, but you want a really good well aged Bushmills, you know, Irish single malt. If you are flying through different parts of Europe, go to Duty free because Bushmills has a number of duty free like special bottles. Many of them I think are like 21 years and they roll them out with some frequency and they have like different expressions. I have yet to have a Bushmills duty free exclusive that I didn't really like. Some I like more than others. And I'm not saying that they're like they're not like punching where this is, but they're really good and they're like USD. It's like 160 or 200 bucks, right? And there's some really, really fun ones. And I'm not saying they're all this good, but if you want to have a really great Irish single malt experience and you want to try some really fantastic Bushmills that you're, you know, that is is different than like the 10 year, you're going to be able to find it most like most liquor stores in the US. If you're flying through Europe or you're flying internationally, check out the duty free Bushmills 21 year duty free exclusives I find are often worth it. They're often the bottle that I, in coming back from Europe especially or Ireland especially, will often regret not getting more bottles of.

1:07:46 What I hear you saying is Bushmills has an incredibly well-rounded portfolio. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I would say, well, I wouldn't say well-rounded because they're they, they produce single malt, right. You have a lot of Irish distillers that produce a lot of different styles of whiskey. Some are producing single malt and Irish single pot still and single grain. Like they're doing a lot of different stuff. Bushmills is doing a lot with single malt, right? So take that as you will. But what they do, they do well. And it's, I want to point out too that like there are about, there are around 50 active distilleries in Ireland right now. At one point there were only two and it was within like our parents lifetimes and Bushmills was one of them, right. And for a long time, Bushmills, like a lot of the highly aged Irish single malt that you'll see these days released from other brands is actually sourced from Bushmills. Yep.

1:08:37 And you see people putting their spin on their own spin on it. And some of this whiskey's very highly regarded and very well, well rewarded. And it starts with really great bass distillate and Bushmills. Their bass distillate's very good. They produce good single malt. They know what they're doing. You know 100. Percent, Brad. I'm coming out to a 44 out of 50 on this one and it's because my my value score is a little bit lower. If I had given it the 10 out of 10, I'd be at what, 46 1/2 out of 50 on this. Where are you sitting on this one, Brad? You called it man 46 1/2 out of 50. All right, David, I did not do the honors of tallying up your score. We're going to be on the lookout for your print review of this sometime soon with, you know, a proper attribution of film and whiskey, of course and the and and the check in the mail, obviously so.

1:09:22 And then, well, that's the that's royalties. This is a film podcast. I was going to say. That it would be a check from us to him to be. Exactly. We're coming out to an average of a 45.25 out of 50 or a 90.5 out of 100. This has hit the 90 mark, Brad. That is a, that is rarefied air here on film and whiskey. You know, we've done it 500 plus reviews now and I think we've only had maybe 5 or 6 ever hit the 90 mark. Yeah, I I was about to say I'm pretty. I know for a fact it's less than 10. Yeah. Yeah, the at the end of the day, like if you get the chance to try Bushmills 30 or Iris single malt, do it like I like.

1:10:06 I don't. I can't imagine a seasoned whiskey drinker or even a novice whiskey drinker who's not, who's not going to be able to appreciate this W100. Percent, I think. I think that's what blew me away is that this is the most perfect combination of like complex and approachable. Approachable 100%. And I think the best way to describe it is crush ability. I like David. We might steal that word and. I stole it. I stole it from my friend Mark, right? Like, I have no original thoughts. I just RIP off you guys and my friends. But it's so crushable. It's so crushable. Not that we would ever endorse drinking to excess. No. Sure. But crushing?

1:10:47 Yeah. You know, You know what else is crushable, Brad? What's that, Robert? All those guys that get crushed by a sandworm at the end of Dune Part 2 dude. What I let? Let's get into it. I've thought, all right. Man. All right everybody, that was Bushmill's 30 year single malt, one of the best whiskeys we have ever drank on this podcast, and it is easily paired with the greatest sandworms that we have ever seen in a film. Well, now I'm rethinking that transition. So Brad, let's get into our game for the day, which we call 2 facts and a falsehood. Brad.

1:11:31 Is going to try to stump your ball and what is wrong? 2 facts and a. Falsehood. 2 Facts and a Falsehood is the part of the show where Brad presents me with three items as facts about the making of this movie, one of which is a complete lie. Brad, I'm doing pretty well on the season. Am I at? What am I at now? I think like 8:00 and 3:00. Yeah, sounds about right. Something around there. Now we do have a guest today and that what that means is that if I enlist David's help and we get the question right, I get one victory, but if we get it wrong, I get 2 losses. So we often end up at the end of the season with more than 32 points for our 32 weeks. It gets very confusing, but it, you know, it's a system that is meant to penalize me.

1:12:20 Yes. So David, I can tell you immediately I'm going to enlist your help because otherwise it makes for very bad audio by just ignore the guest for 5 minutes. You also know more about Dune than I do. So I feel like you are going to be a a fountain of knowledge here. Brad, why don't you hit me with your two facts and a falsehood? Fact number one. To capture the ferocity of Arakis sandstorms, the crew built a wind tunnel that could generate speeds over 150 mph and mixed in with it, real desert sand. Several cast members referred to these shoots as the most intense exfoliation of their lives. Fact #2 director Denis Villeneuve and cinematographer Greg Grieg, Greg Fraser carefully scouted desert locations and selected sites based on the precise curve of the sand or the ideal alignment of sunlight. Maintaining the untouched look at the landscapes required a military level of discipline from the crew members, who were instructed to move in tight single file corridors to avoid disrupting the sand.

1:13:25 Fact #3 Director Denis Villeneuve envisioned Fayed Rotha Harkinen, played by Austin Butler, as a blend of psychopathic killer, Olympic level swordmaster Snake and Mick Jagger. Interestingly, Jagger himself was once slated to portray the character in Alejandro Jodorowski's ambitious but unrealized Dune adaptation of the 1970s. All right. Let me tell you what I'm immediately targeting here, David. So fact #3 what Brad will often do is he'll give 90% of a fact and then add like a little phrase at the end to throw me off. That is not true. Bob, I do not often do that.

1:14:07 I rarely do that. And it pisses me off every time. And pisses. You off so much that you think I often do it? Sticks in my brain man, I know that. I think it's pronounced Yodorovsky's Dune was unrealized. I have no idea if Mick Jagger was ever considered for that project. There's a documentary about the making of that unmade movie, so I I have not seen it. I have no idea about the Mick Jagger of it all apart from that fact #1 sounds pretty made-up to me. 150 mile an hour winds that they were dumping sand into. Because, David, we've both worked. We, we've both worked one of us. You, what am I saying? You have worked with real actors. I have never worked with real actors. I have heard stories about people who work with actors. Did you almost claim that you worked with? Man, I was out on a limb there dude. You sure were I?

1:15:00 Had to pull that one back quickly. I don't even know why I thought that that was what should come out of my mouth. I haven't been nowhere near actors in my life, Brad. All that to say, I can't imagine much of A world where agents and stars are getting themselves into a wind tunnel where they're having sand blown at their corneas and talking about the exfoliation fat. Like unless they had goggles on, which they do in some parts of the movie, but that just seems like something that probably didn't happen to me. It also doesn't mean that Zendaya was in the thing. Well yeah, that just means they dragged her double in there and forced that poor girl to endure life altering cornea damage. And we know that double s are treated so so well. Wait, just to Brad, just to clarify, the first act is 150 miles an hour.

1:15:53 Yes. That's hurricane force, man. That's more than hurricane. That's like, I think hurricane force stops like that's more than that's. Are we? Are we? Do you think that's the falsehood? So the The thing is, the thing about #3 is I think #2 is almost certainly correct, right? Because I think it just needs like, I think that there had to be have been discipline regarding like not disturbing because like that makes sense, right? I think that, like, was how the film was filmed. Three. I kind of remember that. I think I might be conflating. It's a little confusing because in David Lynch's version, Vedra also is played by Sting, who, by the way, does a really good job.

1:16:36 Like, I really like that performance. I thought it was really of all the weird stuff in that movie. I was like, oh, this actually was pretty well done, this. Kind of works, yeah. This kind of works. So I feel like I'd heard that about Mick Jagger, but like, I can't quite remember at the same time, the 150 mile an hour. Like I don't think humans survive 150 mile an hour winds, right? Like 8000 mile an hour winds are like you. You like dying though. Like you're just dead. You know what I mean? Like I think. I think #1 would have worked if it had been like. Like. 75 miles an hour. I would have been like, Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, 100. 150 does sound instantly fatal. I think that's just lethal like so, and I think we would have heard about that like entire cast of Dune killed cause of really bad decision.

1:17:32 When they make a horror film based on that wind tunnel. We've essentially created a sand blaster at that point. More like I think sand blasters don't hit that volume. OK. Are are we in agreement that we're going to go with #1? Then I, OK, so I, I think #1 here's the problem though. I, I get all of the UPS, I get to share in the upside of a win. But I, I, I have none of the repercussions of of getting it wrong. But I will say #1 is my is what I would suggest. I was leaning towards one anyway. So David, that no fault falls on you, I'm going to go with #1 Brad. And I'm going to lock it in as my final answer here. I feel like I feel like you guys have beaten this one to death as 150 mile an hour wind tunnel would also do. That is correct.

1:18:18 It is the falsehood. At any point in writing that falsehood, did you think to yourself 150 sounds like a bit much? Maybe I should. Maybe I should tone that down you. Know, I've never lived in Florida, I've never paid a ton of attention to hurricanes. So no, I I didn't really think about it. Yeah, I want you to next time, next time the weather report says in your area you have 30 mile an hour gusts step outside just. Go outside, check it out. Step outside, face in like face the wind, and go and go. OK, five times this speed 100. And 50. Baby, would I have a face if this hit one face? Yeah. Like five times the speed and sand, you know what I mean?

1:19:01 Like. It'd be like the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark. The face is just melting off. Oh my gosh. All right, guys, David did have to jump off of our call. So Brad and I are going to finish out most of the episode here. We'll bring David back in for final scores. Brad, I want to jump back in where we left off talking about this supporting cast. And it's such a big cast that I think maybe let's just pick one or two people that that blew our minds, starting with someone who is very quickly becoming our person on this podcast, Rebecca Ferguson. Dude. I may have she's. So good. I may have a crush on Rebecca Ferguson. In fact, I think I probably do like she's She's really, really beautiful and also an incredible actress. I absolutely have a crush on my wife and that is the only person I have a crush on.

1:19:52 I mean it's. Not that you know that that kind of crush. It's just like. Rebecca Ferguson is incredible in this movie. She has this brooding intensity within her that just screams when it's on screen. I I mean. What an actress, What a performance. I think one of the overarching things that we've already talked about in this episode is like this second film in the franchise, to me is leaps and bounds better than the first movie and I. So much better. I liked the first movie quite a bit. That's like an 8 out of 10 for me. This. It does everything better, including being a little more Hollywood, right? Like, there's a lot more punch lines, there's actual jokes and laughs, and a lot of them come from Javier Bardem and some of them come from Josh Brolin. But even Rebecca Ferguson, for as eerie and creepy and dark and sometimes evil as she is, they play that for laughs a couple times.

1:20:46 Like the way she cuts people off and uses the voice, or the way that she's just like walking around the halls talking to her unborn baby. It's kind of funny sometimes. And I think that Villeneuve recognizes that to his credit. Yeah, and he implements her for the absolute most impact that she could have had in this movie. A. 100% So we started talking about Javier Bardem. I I personally believe this man should be nominated for an Academy Award for this movie. It is exactly what a supporting performance is supposed to be. He's so funny, he's so over the top at parts, but he also has a believability and a real emotional depth. You know, there's a moment where he's been wounded in battle and he's talking to Paul about, hey, you should just kill me and then go talk at the council and he's because. Killing him would make him the leader, right? And he's like, man, you know, I don't believe in any of that prophecy stuff.

1:21:41 And he's like, I don't care if you don't believe in it. I believe in it. And it's one of the like to see this character who's been portrayed at times as kind of like the fanatic who is also a buffoon, be able to impart on the audience I'm not a buffoon. I really believe this. And it's OK if you don't believe it because I have faith in you. It it's just a real, it's a more nuanced performance than I think it's gotten credit for. I think it's the best performance in the movie about like, I think he does such a stellar job of everything that you said. Like he plays things for laughs. He knows that he's a mentor figure in Paul's life and he takes that so seriously.

1:22:26 And the belief with which he looks towards Paul, like it like once again, like I said earlier about Zendaya, like his eyes communicate so much about who this character is. I I was hoping we would get to him soon because I I do think he is my favorite performance of this movie. I feel like we're kind of getting short shrift to the rest of the cast, but they're all like uniformly very, very. Good. They're so good, dude. Austin Butler. Austin Butler. He has black. Teeth not doing the Elvis voice. Yeah, it's pretty great. OK, Brad, I do want to talk a little bit about the end of the film, which I do think we have different reads on. And in order to do that, I want to get to my let's make it a double.

1:23:12 I won't do the little spiel here. We'll do that when it's time for years. But I'm going to pair this movie up with the Godfather Part 2. Now we have not done Godfather 2 on this podcast, so I'm I've kind of seen. It so don't spoil it, yeah. I'm well so the arc of the main character Michael Corleone across the 1st 2 Godfather movies. It's intended to be taken as one arc and you see from the the young upstart in the 1st movie who doesn't want anything to do with the family business to then becoming the godfather at the end of the first movie. You see the moral decay of Michael across the second film, and it's a much darker movie than the first one is. It's much more sad.

1:23:53 It's it's really does play on the level of tragedy because it's intercut with the story of Marlon Brando's character when he was young and 1st coming to America. And so you watch the juxtaposition, Brad, of Michael alienating his family and kind of ruining the legacy of his own family, interspersed with Brando doing everything for his family and like, right, making them rise to power. And I think that this movie is really similar in how it does that arc with Paula Tradies because by the end of the film, what you've seen is a really complex portrayal where you can take multiple readings of it. Is he a conniver?

1:24:34 Has he just done all of this to further advance himself and or ensure his survival, which has been what he's been saying the whole time? But then you also see moments throughout the film where he's legitimately concerned for the well-being of the Fremen in not going South because he knows it's going to cause death. And then it just kind of gets to a point where it seems like it's inevitable. It is his fate to go South, to become the Lisan Al Gaib and truly lean into what is his destiny and fate, knowing that it will kill millions or perhaps trillions of people. And I think that it's it's a portrayal of a heroic character that we haven't seen since movies in the 70s, like The Godfather, where your protagonist, you know, it's I don't want to compare it to like Breaking Bad because I don't think he becomes the actual villain of the story.

1:25:28 But you could feel the energy in the theater of like, oh, God, like Paul is Paul is starting the jihad at the end of this movie. Like this is this is not where I thought this was going to go. He is declaring war on the entire Galaxy. What the Hell's going on here? Is this good? Is this bad? These people certainly seem to appreciate it. But we know that it's going to cause death and destruction. And so I'm I'm really interested to hear your read on the end of the film. Do you see it as uplifting from the point of view of the Fremen, or do you see it as a a big blinking red warning sign for the character of Paul? I think I saw it as like inevitable, like I, I don't think at any point in the film I ever doubted that he was going to go South and become the least on Al Gaid.

1:26:17 But like that, that felt in, like I said, inevitable to me. I don't think I see it in terms of good and evil per SE. Like for me it it feels like Paul as a character isn't actually concerned about survival that that never seemed to be some his own survival that never seems to be his thing. Like, oh, I have to survive. Like his whole motivation for the first half of the film is revenge for his father. And as he learns the ways of the Fremen and falls in love with Chani and with the Fremen culture as a whole, like he then wants to become the savior of the Fremen.

1:27:04 And so it feels like a trans, a transformation of his motivation. And the only way to truly free the Fremen is to take on the entire Galaxy because of the value that spice has that the only way to bring freedom to the to the planet is to control the entire Galaxy. And so I, I, I guess I just don't, I don't really see it in the same way that you do. Interesting. Yeah. I'm, I'm surprised that, well, I don't want to say that you're taking a surface level reading of it 'cause I don't mean it in a negative way. I'm surprised that you're reading it on its face so much though, because I, I think that the movie really is interrogating the questions of like, is this inevitable or was this manufactured? Did they pull so many strings to make him become the Lisan Algaeb, even if he does have these powers as a result of drinking worm piss, Like, is he really fulfilling a prophecy or is this sort of a, you know, Macbeth self fulfilling prophecy kind of thing?

1:28:03 And I do think that there is a lot of kind of Shakespearean ambition and perhaps folly in the Paula Treaties character. And so you're right, I do think that it's inevitable. Like at no point do you think, oh, I wonder if he's actually going to go South. But it is inviting you as the viewer to question, like, even if this is his destiny, are we supposed to just, are we supposed to root for it? Or are we just kind of helpless bystanders watching the collapse of the universe here? Yeah, I mean, the the way the film portrays it, though, is that the Fremen have a better culture than the spacefaring races that have enslaved them.

1:28:43 And for me, it seems like more of a battle of like Paul learning to understand and love that culture and then fighting on its behalf. Like I, I, I don't know if that's a surface level reading or not. Maybe it is. No. And I again, I'm not trying to insult like I'm not saying you're taking a. I'm just saying like, I just want you to know that I'm not I, I didn't mean it in a negative way. No, I know dude. I I think that I like the big stories like I, I don't. I like the grand operatic narrative of a hero rising to the occasion, rising from the ashes like a phoenix to save a people group to make the Galaxy a better place.

1:29:31 Now once again, David probably knew the IPA million times better than us. And maybe the entire thing ends with the Galaxy falling into ashes and every single human is killed. I like who knows. I just think that if you take Dune 2 on its own merits, I think the story ends in a place where belief in the prophecy triumphs over cold, calculating, manipulative scientific, you know, just desperate bid for survival. Sure. So, So what I'm hearing from Brad is it's OK to colonize as long as you're really sure that your culture is the better culture, right?

1:30:16 Yeah, yeah, 100% cool. All right, man, on that note, let's get into let's make it a double for Brad presented by Blackwood Distilling Company. We're. Near the end of the episodes of Things, listening to the film and Whiskey Show, let's have another film with this one, even if it's struggling, it's the final segment of the day. Now let's make it a double. Let's Make It a Double is the part of the show where we pick a movie to pair up with this one to make the perfect double feature. I've already picked Godfather Part 2. Brad, I'm really interested to hear what you'd like to pair this one up with. Man, I I feel like you could go a ton of different directions. I normally don't like to pair it with a movie we mentioned, but we we barely mentioned it.

1:31:00 I'm going to pair this with the Matrix. I. Like I think that I I wanted to stay in the sci-fi vein for let's make it a double and I think that the matrix is a one of the greatest sci-fi movies ever made. And BI think that you have those similar ideas of struggles with being the one, right? Paul is the one of Dune, Neo is the one of Matrix, and you have really interesting lead characters who struggle to come to terms with their identities and their new powers and what that will mean for the world around them. And I, I, I think that though it would be a heck of a night.

1:31:42 It'd be a very long night, but it would be a heck of a night to watch those two movies. All right, so I've paired it up with Godfather 2. Brad has paired it up with The Matrix. Whatever you choose to pair this movie up with, you can always make it a double with Blackwood Distilling Company. And if you go to bourbonoutfitter.com/filmwhiskey, once again, that's bourbon outfitter.com/film Whiskey and use our code film whiskey at checkout. You'll get 5% off your bottle of Blackwood as well. Brad, I think it is time for us to get into final scores on this movie. So let's bring back David for this. David, I'm going to throw to you first. Where are you landing on Dune Part 2? We're on a one to 10 scale. Half points are allowed.

1:32:24 Yeah, thank you. 8.5 for me. Really, really enjoyed it. Not perfect, but I think it should certainly be in award contention and I hope that it can overcome the the handicap that I think a lot of hard sci-fi faces when it comes to being taken seriously during Movie Awards season. Yeah, 100%. And the question we've been asking all season would you consider this a modern classic? Yeah, I would. I, I would for this. I think it's AI think it's a classic for two reasons. One, I think it's a great achievement in film, or at least a very, very good achievement in film.

1:33:05 And I think it is a really fantastic. It's the interpretation of storied, legendary IP that we've been waiting for. All right, Brad, what are you thinking about this one? Bob I think that the only way this would have been a perfect movie is if when Paul confronts the emperor near the end of the film, when they're like in his ship area before they take him prisoner, if he had said something about his father and how he killed his father. And then Christopher Walken pulls a watch out and goes. I wore this uncomfortable hunk of metal up my ass.

1:33:46 Two years gave the speech. I think that would have made this a perfect movie really quickly. How did you feel about Christopher Walken being in this film? I. Thought he was great. It was a it was a way toned down Christopher Walken, but they they do a great job of capturing his weirdness as emperor. There's a couple of guys you could have done this with, like you could have gotten a Willem Dafoe if you wanted to. But I think, dude, I think Walken's a great choice and he he plays a guy with the burden of being emperor very well. I agree with that. Yeah, there's one specific line that he delivers right before the the fight between Paul and Vedratha that I was like, oh, that was a bad line delivery. Like like that was the one you chose, Denny. Other than that, I think he was spectacular. I'm actually in the same place as David on this. I'm at an 8.5.

1:34:42 Like I think it is stunning and spectacular and I will watch this movie again. You know, we didn't really talk about it much. The the mixture of the cinematography and the sound design of this movie is a 10 out of 10. I mean, far and away one of the most beautiful and moving movies I have ever seen in my life. The the problems with the movie come with some of the dialogue and then at the end of the film, Bob, I'm not going to lie, I think that there was way too much stuff at the start.

1:35:22 I really wish there was more battle. Like you see the sandworms come in, it's freaking awesome. And then you don't see anything, anything of the main battle. And that, like I'm here for the spectacle, I'm here for the Battle of Helms Deep. I was just going to say. You're expecting a Helms Deep like it's set up where you're, you understand where they have all these guys surrounded from. And when the sandworm comes in from that cloud of dust, it is the coolest shot in a movie I've seen this year. But you're right, they give you about 30 seconds of the fight and then they cut away. And then that way it's much more akin to Pelinor Fields than it is to Helms Deep because it just feels like the fights over immediately.

1:36:06 Yeah, yeah, and you know, Palmer Fields great battle scene, but they had another battle, the black gate battle scene to get to and and a ton of other stuff in this movie. It's like this is what we've been building towards. And the exact same problem happens in the fight with him and Fayed Rotha. Like for for one of the best choreographed and sound designed fights I've seen in a long time. You can't have Paul kill Fayed Ratha off screen. I want to see him stab that blade. I don't understand how he executed that maneuver, and I don't understand how he got gutted like a fish and then was just like, all right. Totally fine, let's.

1:36:48 Let's game plan some more here. And and then he guts Fayed Ratha in the exact same way that he just got stabbed, and yet Fayed Ratha dies. Immediately lethal, Yeah. And so it's like a few things like that, that I'm like, like this is an 8 1/2. That was like a few things away from being like a 10 out of 10. I think that this movie is almost hitting the ceiling. It can hit. And I'm also at an 8 1/2 Brad, which is, I don't think we've ever been in lockstep like this with our guests. But I remember sending you, like, screenshots of my ratings of this movie earlier in the year. And you kind of made fun of me after the second or third time I went to see this in the theater. And you're like, it seems pretty solidly like it's an 8.5 for you, dude.

1:37:31 And I can't quite put my finger on it. I think it's that I'm, I'm more impressed by this movie than I am in love with this movie. Agreed. It's an incredibly impressive feat of movie making. I think part of the reason it hasn't gained the Oscars traction this year is that everyone is impressed by it on a craftsmanship level. But I don't know if it really has captured many people's hearts. And that's what's keeping this from being a Lord of the Rings for me. So I'm in an 8.5, you're in an 8.5. IMDb 8.5 out of 10 Brad. Oh my goodness. There you go. Yeah. I was going to say it like, it's hard for sci-fi to capture your heart because kind of the whole purpose of sci-fi is to stay away from the heart.

1:38:14 And so it's like, yeah, like, this is the ceiling, I think, for a grand, operatic sci-fi movie. We do want to say thank you once again to our friend David Thomas Tao. We're sorry that he had to drop off before the end of the episode, but as you know, we be talking on this podcast. Right. Don't you know? I would say this is this is one of our longer episodes. Bob it. Sure. Well, we had like a 30 minute whiskey review too, because that whiskey, that's true. Really damn good. So folks. It was really it was really daggone good and like David is a premier whiskey taster and judge. Next week we will be back with Mad Max Fury Rd., a movie that Brad has not seen that exists on Earth but I think is a great follow up to Dune because it is kind of like soft sci-fi Brad.

1:39:03 Yeah, yeah. I'm super excited for it. It's one of those films that like slipped out of my grasp like once it was out of theaters and I just never got around to it. And then we started the podcast and I was like, well, we'll, we'll watch it eventually. So here I am, a week away from reviewing Mad Max Fury Rd. We'll be back next week with that one, but until then, I'm Bob Book. I'm Brad G. And we'll see you next time.