Creed / Barrell Seagrass Toasted Rye

0:00 In 2015, director Ryan Coogler and star Sylvester Stallone gave the world a punchy drama that hopes to reignite an aging fanbase. In 2025, we use any excuse we can to try one of our favorite brands again. The film is. Creed the whiskey is barrel seagrass toasted and we'll. Review them both. This is the. Film and Whiskey podcast.

0:47 Welcome to the Film and Whiskey podcast, where each week we review a classic movie and a glass of whiskey. I'm Bob Book. I'm Brad Gee. And this week we are looking at the 2015 film Creed. Brad, we've taken a couple weeks off from recording. We've had life stuff come up. You've been travelling all across the country. Welcome back to Film and Whiskey, Brad. New job, baby. How was the trip? It was incredible. Colorado is awesome. It's beautiful. There's a lot of really great food there. I went to a like an anime cyberpunk bar called Chiba Bar, and I had a Toki Highball, which is essentially like seltzer water with Suntory Toki. Yeah.

1:39 And ice. There you go. And it's kind. It's kind of like a whiskey beer. Did you? Did you just, did you just learn what a highball is in, I mean, Colorado? I, I, I know what a highball is. It's just, you know, a Toki highball. Yeah, I mean, come on. It's it's the pinnacle of highballs, man. Exactly. Very good, very refreshing. Drink a little bit of lime on the on the top. Oh yeah, that sounds great man. And welcome back to the show. I'm glad to have you back. I had to fly solo for at least one interview, which Film and Whiskey Nation you will be hearing shortly. But Brad, it's time for us to dive back into season 9. Now, if you're new to the podcast, first of all, welcome in on this podcast. We talk about movies and whiskey this season. What we're doing is we're looking at movies from the last 20 years and we're asking the question, does this movie deserve to be considered a modern classic? Now, Creed is an interesting one, especially based on our four criteria, right?

2:35 Is it in the IMDb top 250? Is it in the letterbox top 250? Did it make 100 mil? Was it nominated for Best Picture? This was definitely checking both of the last two boxes. I don't think it cracks the IMDb top 250, but it's become a pretty beloved sports movie. And I think that we've established, Brad, that when it comes to sports movies and their overall scores on something like an IMDb, you kind of have to grade on a curve. It seems like even the most beloved sports movies only hit like a 7.8. Yeah, it it's wild how it feels like the general public of the United States automatically bumps sport movies down by like 1/2 to a whole point from where it feels like they should be. I don't know what.

3:24 Like, is there something about sports that is just not artistic enough for the human soul? Well, it's got to be artistic enough because it got nominated for Best Picture like it did. You know, and, and I the, the wild thing to me is like, people freaking love sports in America. It's it like we are the entertainment hub of the world for a lot of sports. And so I, I, I don't understand. Yeah, the, the detraction, the the, the sports bias that brings things down a little ways. The devaluing, that's what it is, man. We need to we need to appreciate sports in our movies. Shrink, shrink, flation, Bob. Well, and I say all that to say, this is a damn good sports movie and I I mean that in every facet of what that can mean. It is a good movie that is about sports and it is a good sports movie in that the sports featured in the movie are well executed, well choreographed, well shot. I think the final fight sequence in this movie is one of the better boxing sequences I've ever seen in a movie. Really, really well done film.

4:31 Now, I'm not going to give this movie A10 out of 10, probably not. But I will say that there's a reason this movie has spawned 2 sequels. This is its own franchise now, obviously under the umbrella of Rocky, but I think it stands on its own merits and it all is thanks to this this film. Brett. I would actually disagree with you. I don't think it's due to this film. I think it's due to Michael B Jordan's chiseled ABS. You. Know what's crazy is like we just watched Black Panther. I don't know, was that this season? When did we watch Black Panther? No, I think it was last. Year last year as part of the box office year. Yes, Yep, Yep. Yep, and it's so funny to see him in this movie so people will know Michael B Jordan from when he was a kid.

5:15 He was on the show The Wire. His first really big role in Hollywood was in a film called Fruitvale Station, which was written and directed by Ryan Coogler. One of my favorite movies of the 20 tens. And then they both get the bump from that movie to, hey, why don't you come direct and star in Creed. And Michael B Jordan gets absolutely shredded for this movie. And yet because I've seen Black Panther and both of the Creed sequels, I look back on this movie and I'm like oh man, he looks absolutely scrawny compared to how he looked as Killmonger in Panther. Yeah, there's definitely a difference. And I found it amusing at certain points throughout the film when people would compare him to Apollo Creed.

5:55 I'm like, listen man, Apollo was probably fighting at like 240. Like there is no way 175 LB Adonis Johnson is going to fit into those those boxing trunks. I do think he looks more slight than he probably is because I, as I'm watching the final fight and, you know, they make a point of having Max Kellerman as the, you know, the fight announcer say pretty boy Ricky is definitely taller. And, you know, I was like, OK, at least they're acknowledging it. But Michael B Jordan is listed online at six O and 175 and that's right now. So if he's that much bigger now, first of all, he's not 6 foot. He's got to be like 5-10 at the most. And he was probably 16165 in this movie. Like right.

6:46 I I, I, I don't see him. Being 100%. There's no way he weighs more than $1.80. When I saw him, it just made me think of the the video. I think it's of Ryan Gosling talking about his trainer who trains all the Hollywood guys and how they all want to be Fight Club Brad Pitt. And I'm like, Oh yeah, it's, it's, it's Fight Club Club, Brad Pitt. Like ripped and like jacked, but not big. He's he's lean. But then it was like, let's make sure the biceps pop a little bit. You know it's the best. I'm curious, filming Whiskey Nation, how much time did you think you were going to hear Michael B Jordan's body description when you came into this episode? Like like, were you expecting a solid 5 minute conversation about how this man looks in this movie? Now we have to launch into something to balance that out. We'll talk about the male gaze for 10 minutes or something, right?

7:40 The male gaze on Michael. B Jordan. Dang. All right, Brad, it's time for us to break down the plot of this movie, and in order to do that, we have to get to our first segment of the day, which we call, Brad explains. Brad's going to give us the movie plots with only 60 seconds taken on the clock, so let's go ahead and do your take with this little segment that we call, Brad explains. Brad Explains is the part of the show where Brad breaks down the plot of the film that he has just seen, often for the first time. Now Brad, I I know this was your first time seeing Creed correct? No, actually, I have seen this movie. I don't think I saw it in theaters, but I would have seen it pretty soon after it came out.

8:20 Oh, that's surprising. Yeah. For some reason I thought that we had talked about this and you told me that you hadn't watched it before. So this is what number 2 for your? Number two, yeah, definitely #2 I I haven't seen it since the first time. I remember really liking this movie when I saw it in the theater, and not to give too much of my opinion away, I really like it now. I think it's a good movie. I'm interested to hear how you break it down, Brad, because there's a lot of context to this movie being part of the Rocky franchise, or at least adjacent to it. Will that be enough context to fill 60 seconds? We shall see. Brad, go ahead and spoil this movie for US. One minute on the clock and go. Creed is a film about how the former heavyweight champion of the world, Apollo Creed, got his freak on because he had a baby that was not with his wife.

9:09 The child never knew his father. His mom passes away, he spends time in Group homes, and eventually Apollo's widowed wife takes Adonis, his son in and raises him as her own child. He never gets away from fighting. He leaves a cushy job to train as a boxer. He travels to Philadelphia to find Sylvester Stallone, who plays maybe one of the greatest sports characters of all time, Rocky Balboa. And they go on a journey of fighting one person who's like pretty good, and then fighting the greatest boxer in the world. And Adonis, the entire time, is trying to grow past the idea that he is a mistake and that he only gets things because of his father's name by taking on a fight that he only gets because of his father's name.

10:07 He. Loses. He does. He sucks. He does lose. Just like Rocky. It. It's all a mirror image, is it not? It's. It it sure is I and Rocky says it man, like you got to you're fighting the man in the mirror, Bob. And then that man is actually Rocky. That man is actually Rocky. All right, Brad, there's a lot of directions we can go. We could just dive right into the actual film itself and the structure of the movie and the the performances. We could also go the sort of like adding context route, which I think would be really helpful because this is for all intents and purposes, what has come to be known as a legacy sequel. You know, it's, it's no different on paper than something like a Top Gun Maverick or a, you know, the, the new Ghostbusters movies that keep coming out that I don't know who the hell is going to see those movies, but they keep making.

10:56 Star Wars Episode 7. Yes, and I think that actually Star Wars might be a really good entry point into talking about this movie because they come out, I believe the same year, right, 2050. Bob, you, you know how to put me in a good mood. Let's talk about Disney Star Wars. Yes, they did come out, both in 2015. So this is kind of the first batch that we're seeing of these legacy sequels. And I think that my overarching thought on this movie as a legacy sequel is that it does a really good job of incorporating the elements it needs to incorporate from the Rocky franchise, but not pushing them necessarily to the periphery, but making sure that they're at least attempting to allow this movie and this franchise to have its own legs.

11:41 And that's something that, you know, we talked about this in The Force Awakens. They never fully let those new characters be the driving force of that trilogy. And I think that's what ultimately made it such a messy and muddy trilogy is like, is this just the continuation of Luke, Leia and Han? Or is it about these new characters? And I think this movie does a much better job striking that balance. Bob, you're right. We should talk extensively about the foibles and flaws of the Disney Star Horse. Trailer Let's do it. We haven't. We've never done. We have never fully interrogated. I know this is the subject we haven't brought up before. We should probably dive in.

12:21 I think that this movie takes Rocky, puts him in Michael B Jordan's shoes as like a new coat of paint and like there's not. For me, there's no discernible difference between Rocky from the 1970s and Michael B Jordan Adonis Johnson slash Creed in the 2015. Like the they have all of the same problems. The like, the only thing different about the character is that Michael B Jordan makes more expressive faces.

13:02 Do you think that this movie then would be better if they just rebooted Rocky with Michael B Jordan as Rocky Balboa or whatever they want to make his last name? No, I, I like the idea of like, I, I actually think the story of this film is really well done in the conceptual stage. It's in the actual execution of it that I just feel like there's not enough oomph behind the whole thing. That and I don't know if it's the acting performances or the story beats or there's just not enough time, you know, because this, this movie credits roll at like 2O four, I want to say.

13:46 So yeah, it's only a little over two hours, not too long for a movie. I I just struggle that we don't really get enough time to form deep emotional attachments with any of the characters in a way that makes me emotional at the end of it. Like I'm emotionally tied to Rocky. I don't like seeing him get cancer because it's Rocky Balboa, but the mom is there rescuing him from foster care and then telling him not to fight and then she disappears until the final fight. And the girlfriend is like cute and cool and they kind of have a thing. But there's nothing about their relationship that makes me believe it's more than just a made for screen. They fall in love really fast because it's a movie versus an actual well developed relationship that has depth and meaning.

14:44 And so you know what? When he thinks about Rocky, I'm like, yeah, OK, there's some stuff there, but even that just there, there's not enough there. Bob. I want more because I do think it's a good foundation for a good story. Yeah, I so I think the two things can be true at once. I think that Ryan Coogler is a really good director and a good movie maker. And I also think that this movie has some pretty significant flaws with the screenplay, that the background of the Rocky franchise does a lot of heavy lifting and kind of papers over some of those flaws. But Coogler doesn't necessarily deserve the accolades for those things, even though I think because if you're just watching this movie, like you're not thinking about what's the flaws in the screenplay, right?

15:34 So you have this emotional attachment from 5-6 prior Rocky movies to this that are doing a lot of heavy lifting, that are papering over a lot of things in the script. And I think reflexively people give Coogler credit for that, and he shouldn't get credit for that. He should get credit for how well done the last 30-40 minutes of this movie are from a filmmaking perspective. But I think you're right, man, especially in the first half of this movie, the only character that you really have a profound connection to is Rocky. And it's not because of how he's necessarily presented in this movie. It's because it's like, oh man, it's my old friend Rocky. Like the heavy lifting is being done by your history with that character. And every character in this movie, I think is not. They're kind of given short shrift in terms of their own character development, their backgrounds. You know, Adonis has given just the briefest of introductions as a child.

16:31 And you understand, like, yes, growing up in foster homes or in the the system made him a fighter, made him angry. And he doesn't. He has this conflicted feeling about his dad, who is who is dead, that he'll never know. But it's really not until the second-half of the movie that I feel like they settle into how to explore those things when those things really should have been moved up into the first half of the movie. But the first half of the movie is just a series of things that happen, and I feel like I really had to push through those things to get to the enjoyable parts of the movie. Yeah, it feels like the South Park, like and then this happens and then this happens and then this happens and not enough of it has a motivation.

17:18 And and I think Michael B Jordan is trying to play this mysterious motivated figure where like nobody knows why he's doing what he's doing. He could have had a cushy job. He he could have coasted off his dad's name, but he's trying to do these things to prove himself. And like when he is in the ring, I think it's right before the final round and he looks at Rocky and Rocky's like, what are you trying to prove? Sorry, sorry. Wouldn't try to prove, man. And he looks at him and goes that I'm not a mistake. I'm like, I almost started crying, Bob, because I'm like that, like that.

18:00 How many human beings have you met in your life that are trying to prove that exact thing? So like, if you give me that motivation a little more clearly, he doesn't even necessarily have to say it out loud. But I don't feel like that was communicated well enough throughout the film. It felt like just a generic, I'm angry for no reason, and I wish you'd gotten a little more clarity on that point because it would have made the rest of the movie much more endearing and intense, and it would have drawn me in way, way more deeply. The turning point of this movie comes at about the midway point when you find out that Rocky has been diagnosed with cancer and that throws Adonis into a sense of disequilibrium. Right after that, he gets in a fight at one of his girlfriend's concerts and and embarrasses her. She tells him to go the hell away for a while and figure out his stuff.

18:56 He ends up being held in a a a jail cell for the night. And Rocky comes and tries to apologize to him because Rocky has also pushed Adonis away after his diagnosis. And you see in Michael B Jordan, you know, he starts crying like a little kid. I think it's the best his his best scene in the movie, Michael B Jordan, but you see that his response is to push people away because he expects to be abandoned. He clearly has abandonment issues. And I think from that moment on, I really love the direction that Coogler goes because you don't necessarily get these big Oscari speeches of him apologizing to people and overcoming his own inner demons.

19:38 It happens in very small moments. Most of the conversations in this movie are there's no music there, you know, two people sitting in an apartment having dinner or something. And I really, really love the way that this movie double s down on being mournful about what people have lost or their regrets in life. And also, I guess, just like embracing the flaws of all of its characters because, to be frank with you, the first half of the movie. They weren't doing a good job of establishing why Adonis is kind of an asshole. Like he's really full of himself. He's super cocky. And I, he wasn't a compelling character. And I was like, man, I don't remember if you. If you look like that, would you not be? I mean, 100% hockey.

20:27 Let's let's return to our discussion of his body and face. What do you say? Obviously, But I, I think that I was watching the movie saying like, oh, I didn't remember him being this much of a Dick. And then once you finally understand why he's being a Dick, I think the whole movie clicks really well. And it's it's a much more gentle movie than you're expecting it to be, punctuated by this incredible fight sequence at the end of the film. So I say all that to say, I think the second-half of the movie is really well done, both in its quiet moments and it's big, loud, you know, set pieces. But that first half just felt tonally confused and underwritten and just kind of off. Yeah, it, it, it drains the energy out of the movie before it even really starts, which is really unfortunate because I, I do think there are certain elements that they get right. As somebody who lived in Philly for a year and, you know, I lived there 2013 to 14.

21:22 So like, probably while they were filming this or, you know, close to it, they got a lot of Philly things right about the movie that I appreciated. Fun fact, cheese steaks are the greatest thing that humanity has ever created. People in Philly call everything John and there are like roaming gangs of teenagers on dirt bikes pulling wheelies everywhere. Those were three things that they nailed in this movie. Let's let's talk a little bit about the image making in this movie because, you know, this is not Dune, right? Like, you're not just going to take a screenshot of some of this and be like, wow, look at the cinematography.

22:03 But I do think that Coogler is doing a lot with the camera there. There are quite a few sequences. Adonis's first fight is all filmed as one continuous shot that circles both participants repeatedly. I think it's just really cool how they're trying to do more visually interesting things than just kind of over the shoulder. Here's a punch landing, and that will cut to the other guy and there's a punch landing. There are moments in this movie that I'm like, all right, yeah, I can see how you're kind of elevating what is essentially a very basic boxing story. The shot of all those dudes circling him on their AT VS as he's like cheering on Rocky up in the window. It's such a good shot, you know, And I think of like at the end of the movie when pretty boy Ricky emerges from the darkness by the guy that blowing fire. I was going to say shot.

22:50 Dude, and, and something I've commented on before, Coogler had the balls to let the screen be black for a solid 10 seconds. Like you slowly zoom in, you know, all the cell phones are on, the arena is black, but it's still dimly lit. But he finally gets to the point where the camera is so close to the entrance that the entire screen is pitch black and the music is playing and it's ominous and it sits there for 10 freaking seconds. And it's long enough for your anticipation to truly rise and for you to go, man, I don't know what's about to happen. And then all of a sudden there's a dude spitting fire three times in a row and like the way he walks in through the fog and there's like 4 guys holding championship belts behind him. And like, it almost looks like a cult. Like it is so freaking cool.

23:43 Probably one of the best, like boxing entrances in a movie. This movie does a really good job of building 2 specific moments. And I think this is a good jumping off point for us to just, let's just talk about the last 25 minutes of that boxing sequence because it's done very deliberately. Like it starts out as, you know, medium shots of they're feeling each other out. And then, Oh my God, Creed's getting his ass kicked in the first round. And then I think it's in the end of the second round where they, they get each other on the ropes and there's just a flurry of punches and the sound design, the way the camera is a little bit closer on them and the editing, the rapid cutting there, it immediately propels that. Like I, I started that.

24:27 It's like the meme of the guy sitting on a chair that then like you see the arrow and he just leans forward. That was me watching this because it started out a really simplistically shot and edited sequence. And as it goes on, they're throwing so many different filmmaking techniques at you from that second, second round to like the third or fourth round. You see, like they do this whole thing where the lights go dim because you're trying to get inside of Creed's head. That was really cool. And then it starts to become kind of more abstract with these really quick insert shots of the bell and blood spraying on the canvas. And I just, I think that it's one of the better boxing sequences I've ever seen in a movie. I mostly agree, I actually really did not like the part where like the lights fade and it gets a little quieter and it's, I can't remember if they're like heavily backlit or forlit, but like the lighting changes and it that part totally threw me off. I, I think for me, because I have better cinema cinematic decision making chops than Ryan Coogler does. Obviously, I, for me, I wish that he had done a traditional boxing fight with a lot of the, the insert shots that you were talking about, like sprinkled in throughout, because I'm with you.

25:47 That part was like, oh, I've not seen that before in a boxing film. It reminded, it reminded me of like a Edgar Wright light. Like it's not quite as solid as this phone slamming or, you know, some of the stuff that he does. But it reminded me of that style of like insert shots that like add to the tension of the scene and the bell ringing. And that part was really, really awesome. I think that what Coogler's trying to do there is pay homage to the great boxing sequences of movies of the past without ripping them off, right? Like to just give it one or two shots to acknowledge.

26:29 Like, hey, here's a shot of blood spraying on the canvas, and it's done in the style of Martin Scorsese so that I can acknowledge Raging Bull, right? Here's a shot of Adonis getting uppercutted and his whole body lifting off the mat. And we're going to film it in slow motion because there's that really cool boxing sequence in the movie Snatch where Brad Pitt gets knocked back like that. Like there there's definitely small tributes to movies like that, but I. You know what I wish? You know what I wish they gave a tribute to What's that? Charlie Chaplin is boxing. Somebody, somebody needed to get the the cord from the bell wrapped around their neck so that every time they lean forward, it dinks. But I said all that about the the building to moments, because there's two moments at the climax of this fight that are just freaking fantastic.

27:19 And the first is after Creed gets knocked down and is completely unconscious. You get the great little editing of small moments flashing before his eyes that spring him back to life. And I love that that moment's not overdone. It's just like, dude, go ahead. Springs him back to life. Like he just got freaking clear. Yeah. Like a like a Mia Wallace with the adrenaline shot in Pulp Fiction. Yeah, I love. That and then you get the moment of he's he's Rocky's looking him in the eyes and says, I want you to say it. I'm going to knock that son of a bitch down. And he says it. And the second he gets up is the first time you hear the the Rocky theme flying high now in the whole movie and it hits like crack dude. I was like cheering the second that thing hit. Absolutely, man.

28:13 Literally as we were getting on the record, I was like humming the Rocky theme. It is such an incredible song, guys. Like if you haven't watched a Rocky movie in a while, a go watch. Watch a Rocky film. Be be proud of being an American. Secondly, just go listen to the song because it is one of the best pieces of music ever written for a movie. Oh, it's so good. And I actually do think that the score to this movie does a really good job of paying tribute to that. There's a lot of horns used in the score of this movie, and they give Creed his own theme, which is catchy in its own right. Like it, it's not a knock against it to say, oh, it's not as memorable as one of the most memorable pieces of music ever. It's quite good.

29:02 And I love that they held off on using the actual Rocky theme until that moment because they could have leaned too heavily on it. They could have overdone it. But saving it for the moment where you know the tide's about to turn and he's like fully embraced this underdog Rocky mode, It's the perfect use of that. Yeah. And that's like the the whole story has been leaning into this kid is going to be the perfect combination of Rocky and Apollo that's ever been. And while they do that well with their light motifs and music, there are moments throughout the film where like the announcers at the start of the match like essentially are like, this is a combination of Rocky and Apollo. But can that save him?

29:46 And there's A and even after the match, there's a few direct lines saying it. And I'm like, Coogler, come on, man. Like we you don't got to say it out loud. Like we all we all picked it up. What you're going for here? What What were your thoughts on having Max Kellerman so prominently featured in the movie? It was weird, mostly because I recognize him for what is it? Is he on 1st take? He used to be, yeah. He hasn't been on ESPN in. A couple years now, sure, but like at the time he would have been first take it. It was one of those things where it made me ask the question, huh, did he do boxing announcing in real life? He did because like it it would almost be so there you go. It would be like if they if they did made an MMA movie and Joe Rogan was announcing that's.

30:32 Exactly what it. Was and you didn't know that Joe Rogan does MMA stuff? Who's this ball? Would be hard. Yeah, it'd be hard to not know that, but if you only knew him from his podcast and then you saw him in an MMA movie, it would kind of take you out of it. That's what it did for me. But like, that's my fault. I if he actually announced boxing in real life, then that's I think that's a great pick up by Coogler and the film. I do kind of like it's nice to have announcers in a boxing movie. I don't necessarily like that the entire boxing sequence was presented with their audio as if we were watching it on HBO. Like, you know, if you watch the original Rocky movie, those those announcers are calling the match.

31:17 But you do get moments where it's just like diegetic sound. And I think in this movie, it is just narrated the whole time. And after a while, I was like, man, can we just get like, some sort of, you know, reprieve from this guy talking for 20 minutes? I don't know if that stuck out to you as much as it did to me, Brad. It definitely did it. It's the biggest detractor from the fight. And it's one of those things where you can tell who sponsored the film. Like, this is very clearly the World Boxing Association, HBO, like basically saying, hey, we don't have any money because of this new thing, you know, myth, mixed martial, mixed martial arts.

32:01 And we need to make up the audience somehow. So get us another Rocky movie and put HBO boxing on everything. All right, man, I think that we're at a good spot to press pause here. We'll come back. We'll talk a little bit more about other movies that this movie reminds us of. But before we get there, let's try some Barrel Seagrass. What do you say? Dude, no sweeter words have ever come out of your mouth, Bob. All right, so today we are checking out Beryl Seagrass Toasted. Now if you are an avid listener of the podcast, you'll remember that just a few weeks ago we had the founders and the the leaders of the barrel company on our podcast.

32:48 And at the time, they flashed a bottle to us when I told them that Brad's favorite whiskey was Barrel Seagrass. And they said, we just released this really limited Barrel Seagrass toasted. We'll send you a bottle. So here we are, Brad, each with our own bottle, I would say. Black Label baby. Thank you very much to the folks at Barrel for sending these to us. When you've opened hundreds of bottles of whiskey, there is something about opening like a premium bottle and the cork is heavy that you're like, oh, this is going to be a good bottle. Yeah, the weighted cork was not expected, but definitely appreciated. So you may have heard us talk about barrel seagrass in the past.

33:29 This is a rye whiskey that is finished in Martinique, rum, Madera and apricot Brandy barrels. Now, what makes this one different is that there's a secondary maturation in toasted American oak. We've talked a lot, Brad, about what toasted oak is as compared to charred oak. Basically, it's just a, you know, they, they burn it for less time. It's supposed to draw out different types of sugars and flavors from the wood to impart it into the whiskey. I am not a big fan of toasted barrel finishes. There's I think it just makes it too sour for me. You've been a little bit more hit or miss. I've been pretty consistently negative except for like one or two. Yeah, the there are some toasted expressions that I've really liked.

34:13 There are some toasted expressions that are very unimpressive to me. It feels like one of those movements in the industry that we're still somewhat in the early years of and it's going to take distilleries a little while to like figure out what works with the toasted finish and what doesn't. So I, you know, I hope it leads to a good place where toasted finishes are like, you know, the cream of the crop. But as it is, I'm with you. I, I'm a little, I don't want to say leery. I I think I'm a little cautious when it comes to toasted finishes. Yeah, same man. So this particular bottle clocks in at 119.12 proof.

34:55 So it's a high proof whiskey undisclosed sourcing, but Indiana and Canada are listed on here so we can at least guess the Indiana side of things. The mash bill is also undisclosed, but the cost on this is $200.00, so the. Cost is disclosed. This is. Just hitting the beginning stages of what we would call premium whiskey, we typically set that around 200. We'll talk about the cost in a little bit here. Brad, I'm drinking this live. You've had it before. Let's dive into our nosing notes. Bob, this is, I freaking love seagrass, man. The nose here, the rye comes through a little more strongly than I remember. The classic seagrass.

35:40 So lots of rye, very minty. There's some candied cherry, some cheesecake, a bit of like an almond almond extract nose. There is a lot of really rich, beautiful flavors here to go with your rye minty goodness, which is what I loved about the original Seagrass. I'm going to give this a 9 1/2 out of 10. Yeah, I'm not quite as high as you on this, but this is a damn good nose. I've realized with rye, Brad, that I'm not as much of A rye guy as you are. But when I want to rye, I want it to be all the way rye. Like I wanted to smell like dill and mint and spicy and a little sour.

36:23 And this one, it like it hints at that. You get some rye notes, you get the mintiness, you get just a hint of the sour. But it it doesn't smell like a really rye forward rye. Now, if you are a bourbon drinker and you don't usually dip your toe into rye, that might be a good thing. What I do pick up, aside from the rye notes, Brad, is like a whole bunch of different kinds of Wrigley's gum. Like the green wrapper spearmint gum with the powderiness is definitely on this. I get a little bit of just bubble gum and I also get like Juicy Fruit gum on this. Like the fruit notes on here are a little more bubble gum oriented than actual. Like I don't get a lot of real orange or pear or lemon on this.

37:03 A full panoply of gum, if you will. Oh man, back when we were kids and you could actually get the five pack of Wrigley's gum for $0.25. Yeah, dude, man, your boy used to be chewing gum all the time, right? I'm going to give this an 8.5 on the nose. I think the palette here is incredible. There is rye, there's caramel. The sweet mint really comes through. It reminded me of like a Cherry Tootsie pop at certain points. There's apple peel. I almost, it almost dove into like a candy ginger note for me that I thought was really delicious. I I'm it's not perfect.

37:47 It's close. I'm going to give it a nine out of 10 on the on the taste here. I popped this last week. I had a friend come in from out of town and stay with me. We both tried it immediately after popping it and I was like, huh, I don't like this nearly as much as regular seagrass and it I was pretty let down at first. It's been sitting here for a week and I am significantly different on it than I was last week, Brad and once again I'm going to get into my my the annals of Bob as a fat guy who eats candy lore. The note that I get on this that is fruity is gummy Peach rings. I love Peach rings and this has like a a slightly artificial candy Peach flavor to it that I have absolutely never gotten on any of Beryl's products before the rise there.

38:39 I do get that toasted influence right at the front it it just coats your mouth differently than a non toasted finish does. I don't quite know how to explain it, but it's there's lots of citrus, there's a good rich carmeliness to it and then you get Peach rings underneath that. This is insanely drinkable. If we're talking about crush ability, I think this is more crushable. Maybe the regular seagrass would be Brad. I'm going to give it a nine out of 10. Yeah, crushable is a great word for it. I think in the finish is where this thing just is. Lights out for me. The the peppermint and dill come through really strong. The the rye spices there. The almond turns into like this really nice bright almond extract. There's pear.

39:23 It's got like a whipped cream creaminess to it. I am just blown away. I I think that this finish reminds me of why I love seagrass so much. So I am going to give it a 10 out of 10 here on the finish. Yeah, I think I'm going to be at a 9.5 on the finish that the grape influence comes back and it really is. It's like it's a cream, like a cream saver with grape influence from those Madera casks, I would imagine. And I think that apricot Brandy, it was really present on the palate. You know, I think I mentioned this in our original Seagrass review. I didn't pick up a lot of apricot on original seagrass.

40:05 It's definitely here in this version. And I think this might actually be one of the first toasted influence barrels that we've had that I I can see that that toasted barrel brought out the flavors from the other barrels even more. It's made everything. Amplified. So I'm going to be at a nine out of 10 on the finish and I think I'm going to be at a 9.5 out of 10 on the balance, Brad. Yeah, I'm also at a 9.5 out of 10. On balance, this thing has rich, decadent, beautiful flavors paired with really beautiful spicy rye minty goodness and it finishes with that incredible creaminess. I, Bob Barrel continues to be one of the best producers of whiskey in the world right now.

40:56 They are putting out such delicious whiskey that I like. I can't help myself, man. This stuff is incredible. All right, let's talk about the $200 price point. So regular seagrass I believe is like $90.00 right? Yeah, I think it's like 85 in the state of Ohio, but yeah, it's right around there all. Right. So yes, they are using an additional barrel in the finishing process here. Does that merit just, if we're just talking about the labor part of it, not even factoring in the juice yet, Brad, does that merit an over 100% increase in cost? Because I don't think it does. I would give regular barrel seagrass A10 out of 10 on value all the way up to like $120.00. Like I I think it is that good.

41:48 With that being said, I think that this is just about as good of a product as Barrel Seagrass. Insanely crushable, really complex and delicious. At $200, I think I'll give it a 7 out of 10. Like I still think it's a decent value. It's not an 8 or a nine out of 10 on value. Like you're, you're hitting the point where I'm like, yeah, $200 makes sense for this. But that like if a price makes sense for something that doesn't make it a great value. Like Rebel 100 is a great value because it should cost you $34 and it costs you 20. That's why it's a 10 out of 10 value.

42:29 So I, I think that this is a good price for it in the sense of is it worth the juice I'm getting out of the bottle, you know, but is it like a great value? Like, man, what a bargain. Like, like, no, it's $200. Yeah, and I think that's why I asked the question, you know, because I, I try to marry the market with the the labor intense process with the actual quality. So there's like three things I'm considering now. I think market wise they've already established that they sell higher priced whiskeys and for a reason. So I don't have a problem with them having a $200 product. Where I start to look at it is like, does this drink like a $200 product? Yes.

43:12 So yeah. OK, We've got a check mark on two of the three boxes. Does the actual labor involved necessitate a $200 price tag? I don't think so. Like I think that if they wanted to sell this for 1:50, they could. Now, I'm not going to Ding it too much for that, but I do think that just based on we've added one more barrel to the mix, so now we're going to charge, you know, twice as much. That seems a little steep to me. So I'm going to come down to a 7.5 out of 10 on the value. I still think it's a good value, but I'm with you Brad that it could be a better value. However, that still brings me out to a 43.5 out of 50 for one of my highest scores of the season. Yeah, I'm, I'm at a 45 out of 50 Bob. Yep.

43:57 Like this is a 90 plus out of 100 for me. This is an absolute no brainer. I think it's worth buying a bottle or a pour at the bottom. Yeah. And if you take out my value score, I'm at like a 36 out of 40. So I also think that if we're just talking about what's in the glass, this is a 90 plus out of 100 whiskey. It is a no brainer recommendation for me. If you are willing to plunk down $200.00 on the counter at your local liquor store for anything, this would be one of my highest recommendations. If you're trying to get into rye for the first time, like you know, maybe don't spend $200.00 on this may maybe spend 85 on on the barrel seagrass. But you know, there's a lot of good Ryze out there for 30 to $45.00.

44:41 Try some Ryze, see get your sea legs, see if it is worth your time and effort and money. But if you like rye, this is an absolute. No brainer. All right, Brad, let's get back into talking about Creed. What do you say? Let's get to it. All right, everybody. That was Beryl toasted seagrass, a whiskey that just man. Just like I hope this movie would do, took me back to a time of happiness and enjoyment and where where things were just beautiful and wonderful. I'm literally sending a text message. I don't usually do this while we record Brad, but I'm sending a text to my buddy sigh right now and telling him dude, this got 10 times better than it was when we first popped the cork on it.

45:28 I feel badly, but also now I get all of it to myself, you know? Yeah, it it's not going to be another Jack Daniels. What was it, the triple? Match that you. Gave away it's. Not happening. It's not happening, man. Before we get into Canada's favorite segment, I just want to say I think one of my favorite things about this movie was it like cemented the barely alternate universe. Like, you know, usually when we talk about an alternate universe, it's like, you know, aliens coming in and destroying New York City. In a Marvel movie like this, this alternate universe is the most believable alternate universe where Rocky Balboa is real. Like, like that's the only thing that's changed. Everything else is exactly the same. And it, it makes sense because like there's a, an actual Rocky Balboa statue in real life in front of the Philadelphia Museum of Art.

46:28 And there's there's something in me that was like, this movie captures what I would want to be true if Rocky was a real person. And it felt so believable that he's just like rolling around Philly. Like a bro knows everybody knows the cops, knows the kids, knows the doctors. And everybody's just like, hey champ, how you doing? I think the most interesting decision in that whole thing, though, is that at the end of the movie when they scale the stairs to the museum, they've removed the Rocky statue or they at least don't show it because I don't exactly know where it's at, but I'm pretty sure it's like center at the top of those steps. So I think it's not. Oh, OK, OK. Is it off to the side somewhere it. It's, if I remember correctly, you know how they like. There's the stairs and then a little landing platform and more stairs.

47:17 I think it's the second to the top, kind of to the right. OK so I don't know if they digitally removed it or not, but I thought it was interesting that they didn't show it, suggesting that in this universe there is no rocky statue. Well, at the start of the movie they show it. Oh, do they show it? Yeah, because at some point when he first gets to Philly, he goes up to the Museum of Art and like the tourists are taking a picture in front of it and then he's looking at it and then it cuts to him at at Adrian's. Oh, I totally forgot about that. OK. But I think that Coogler was going where you were thinking Bob with like, at the end of the film, like Adonis has taken on the role of Rocky. Like, he's the underdog who has the fame of Rocky but also the underdog mentality.

48:09 And now it's up to him to carry on the legacy of the name. Which brings me back to Disney Star Wars and how Ray never deserved the name of Skywalker that she, just like, maliciously takes at the end of the trilogy. All right, man, let's get into two facts and a falsehood. He's going to try to stump you. Ball 2 are right and what is wrong? 2 facts and a falsehood. 2 Facts and a Falsehood is the part of the show where Brad presents me with three items as fact about the making of this movie, one of which is a complete lie. Brad, I'm doing quite well this season and I say this every week, but I did absolutely no research into the background of this movie. And in fact, I did so little research that I have already lied to the people and I need to give a quick correction. This movie was not nominated for Best Picture. I was 100% convinced that it was and I am not usually wrong about these things.

49:08 So I my memory was just way off on this movie, but the only Oscar nomination it received was for Sylvester Stallone as Best Supporting Actor. Film and Whiskey Nation. I've been trying to shield you from this for a long time, but meet Bob Book, Notorious Liar. Bob Book, as it turns out, fallible human being. How dare you? All right man, hit me with your two facts and a falsehood. Fact #1 Sylvester Stallone was 69 years old when this film was released, which was the same age as the one and only Burgess Meredith when Rocky was released in 1976.

49:49 Fact number two. The first drafts of the script for Creed, there actually was a competition between writer Ryan Coogler and Aaron Covington, who each presented Sylvester Stallone with a version of the script that had many similar beats, but with one featuring Apollo Creed's son and the other Ivan Drago's. Much of the Drago's story was then transferred into the sequel Creed 2. Fact #3 The Olympic gold medal that Danny Stuntman Wheeler, played by Andre Ward, shows off in the HBO promo scene is real and belongs to Andre Ward, who was a boxer in real life that won the light heavyweight title medal at the 2004 Summer Games in Athens. Wow, these are really good.

50:42 Brad, I will out myself here and say that when you watch a film on Amazon Prime and you hit pause at any point, they have this thing, I can't remember what it's called, but like they have the little trivia pop up on the side. X-ray, X-ray. One of the X-rays was the thing about Stallone being the same age as Burgess Meredith. So I I saw that one. So I'm sorry but. Dang it. Yeah, well, somebody copied and pasted that either from Amazon into the IMDb fax list or from the IMDb fax. List into Amazon, Yeah, What if it's just not true and Amazon's just, you know, culling stuff from the Internet to put on? OK.

51:23 So it's either would you put it, would you put it past Amazon? Not at all, not even a little bit. It's either two or three, and I really don't know. This is a complete shot in the dark. Creed 2 was a movie about Ivan Drago's son. And then what was the remind me of the third one, Brad? The the the first guy that he fights in the middle of the movie is an actual boxer that won Athens 2004 lightweight. I'm going to say 3 is the falsehood. I have no, absolutely no basis for that, but I'm just going to. It's got to be one of the two I'm going with #3 Brad, final answer. I I love your Meh.

52:04 It's a 5050 shot. There's a very coin of Destiny feel. About this box very much so. You are absolutely incorrect. Yeah, I already filled the L in on our sheet here. Brad. I didn't feel great about that one. Yeah, well, it's usually because I don't trust you to do any amount of extra research into anything we do. So the fact that you even went and looked up what Creed 2 was about to write that falsehood, it says a lot about your commitment here. I so I wrote that fact and then at some point when you talked about there this being a series, I was like, hold up a second. I feel like I remember one of the other ones being about Drago.

52:50 So I quickly like looked it up and was like Creed two plot and was like ha ha. I did have Drago's son. So I went in and like just typed. Much of Drago's story has been transferred to the sequel, Creed two. There you go. Give it the authenticity. That was while we were recording, folks. Look at that, I'm texting people. Brad's doing last minute revisions to two facts and a falsehood. It paid off this week, man. I took the L and I think that's now my fifth loss on the season. Brad, this is actually our 16th movie of the season, so we're halfway through season #9 we've done it. That's insane. Yeah, I know. We're moving quickly, man. How many go ahead? How many of the movies have we declared as modern? Classic, I was just going to ask you, I don't have that number down right now, but I mean just kind of looking through the list or just remembering what, what do you think is our classic to non classic ratio?

53:45 I would say like 33% would be my thought. I feel like we're we're at more of a classic than a non classic right now. Yeah, I mean. Oh, well, we'll, we'll get that data to you Film and Whiskey Nation. We'll count to 16 next week. We'll. Crunch, crunch the numbers. All right, man, let's dive back into Creed. And I can't get off of this Star Wars thing, so I want to ask you the way that they. Treated normally, that's normally that's my job. I was going to say, you know, usually I can't get away from Star Wars quickly enough, But you know, you brought up The Force Awakens and I think that The Last Jedi is actually a good comparison to what they do to the character of Sylvester Stallone or Rocky in this movie.

54:28 And, and as a point of contrast, right, I know that you hate the Luke Skywalker treatment in The Last Jedi. And I'm wondering, does that carry over to the way that they treat Rocky here? Now, there is additional context, like you have the movie Rocky 5 where Rocky and his son have a falling out that's referenced in this movie. You have the additional context of the 6th Rocky film, Rocky Balboa, which I have never seen. So I have no idea what bearing that hat on his character in this movie. But it's not the same as The Last Jedi where you just haven't seen Luke in, you know, 40 years and then now he's this old curmudgeon. Do you feel like they did Rocky a disservice with him not being involved in fighting anymore and pushing people away, or did it seem like a more natural progression of his character than it did with Luke?

55:18 Dude, from the very start of Rocky, the very first film, Rocky's just kind of a nobody who likes his people, and at the end of his life, he's a somebody who just likes his people. And at for me, I think they absolutely wrap up his character arc perfectly. Like at this point in his life, he has nothing left to prove. He knows who the man in the mirror is, staring back at him like he's been through the most difficult thing of his life. And losing Adrian, his best friend Apollo, that like, he absolutely knows who he is.

55:58 Well, let me pull hold on 'cause I think that you're you're explaining his characters arc throughout this movie. When we first find him at the beginning of the movie, he's still trapped. Morning Adrian, not letting himself get past her. You know, when he pushes Adonis away in the middle of the movie, he has that great moment where he asks himself, like, what did you just do? You know, like he's still immature in a lot of ways. So I I'm specifically like where we find him at the beginning of the movie here, I think is much more similar to where we find Luke at the beginning of The Last Jedi. And that's why I was like, I don't know if Brad will like this or not. As I was about to finish, I'm sorry, I, I think that he had one thing left to do as a character and that is like pass on who he is to the next generation. And like, that's what this movie is about for. Like, specifically for the character of Rocky, it's all about his opportunity to close the book on boxing and pass on not just his boxing skills, but like, the life lessons that he's learned along the way.

57:07 And he gets to be fall, you know, he gets to be a real human being who still makes mistakes and isn't perfect. But even as he says, like, why do you say that? Like, what are you doing, Rock? Which, by the by, is there ever a more believable character in the history of cinema that would talk out loud to himself then? Rocky Balboa? Like when he's forced Gumper the only two that could get away. With that exactly, when he says, oh, come on, Rob, what are you doing? I'm like no doubt in my mind that that is actually what's happening. I don't, but it's it's like, go ahead. But it's just like he, he's a real human being who still makes mistakes, but the when he makes the mistakes, it doesn't feel like he's a, a young protagonist who's trying to come to grips with who he is. It feels much more so like, come on Rock. I, I know I'm better than that.

58:05 Like, like, let's go it. But it doesn't derail him or shatter him. Whereas you brought it up, Bob. So. So this is your fault. What Rian Johnson does to Luke Skywalker as a character is an absolute horrifying travesty that we've never seen the likes of in the history of movies. There it is. So I brought this topic up. I literally just thought of this a minute and a half ago and I was like, this will be great to get Brad riled up and not thinking about just how closely I actually think that their character arcs parallel and hearing your justification of it. It actually you could copy paste that what you said about Rocky directly onto the character arc of Luke on in the last Jedi and every point still hits. And that's why I wonder why you see Rocky at the beginning of this movie as a guy who has already come to embrace himself and understand who he is, because it certainly still seems like he has some things to work through. You know, his his own defeatist attitude about getting cancer until until that last moment in the ring when he says, hey, I'm going to go home and fight this, I want you to fight too. Like he hadn't actually really accepted it. And so I, I don't see him as being as complete of a person at the beginning of the film as maybe you did, where it sounds like you think that he's pretty complete, but that he just has like this one more thing to do to reach, you know, a higher plane of Nirvana or something.

59:36 A higher plane of Philadelphia Nirvana. You just get to you just get to bathe in the cheese whiz from from all the the cheese steaks. That might sound gross, but it also might be the most beautiful thing you'd ever get to do in your life. If you're a Philadelphia and that is the dream, that is the dream. You get to just float in Cheese Whiz and then go to a sporting event and Chuck batteries on someone. Dude, Philly's a wild city, man. I'll tell you what. Oh geez, I I'm a little sidetracked because I'm so frustrated that you would compare Rocky Zarkier to Luke.

1:00:18 There may be a similarness to some of the beats. I I don't think all of them match. I think the main thing is the derision with which Johnson treats the past versions of Luke and how Luke used to think about the world versus Coogler here, who very obviously has respect for the character of Rocky and he never tries to undermine who Rocky was. I think what he does is he just has an honest conversation with the audience about around what does it look like for a boxing star to slowly age and to leave the boxing world, to not rely on his name to get by, but to just kind of like open up a restaurant and his wife's name and and he makes decent money. Probably because it's rocky, but also because he probably has good food and like like it.

1:01:16 It kind of reminds me of the whole story of, you know, like a South American fisherman who, like, catches enough fish to feed his family. And then he sleeps in the afternoon and the American comes in and convinces him to make this giant fishing operation so that he can make enough money to chill with his family in the afternoon. Like, Rocky's the guy who's like, I don't know, man. Like, I already did the thing. I just kind of want to chill now. I'm old. Leave me alone. I think that if there's one more movie that we can draw comparisons to, it's a film that we reviewed on the podcast before, and it's 2011's Warrior, the MMA movie, where you have this very interesting dynamic between two estranged brothers and their very estranged father, who Nick Nolte is so freaking good in that movie, man.

1:02:01 It just blows my mind, I think, how good he is in that movie. But this movie really does borrow quite a bit from that. And I think between mirroring the structure of the original Rocky, the the place where it departs from the original Rocky is that Rocky is getting trying to overcome the fact that everyone thinks he's a loser, right? And we just talked about this when we recorded our Season 10 upcoming re record of the movie On the Waterfront, and how much the Rocky character is paralleling that Terry Malloy character. Everyone thinks they're a bum, Everyone thinks they're stupid and they can't overcome that.

1:02:41 And that's his journey. Whereas Adonis's journey is much more out of abandonment and past trauma. And you get that folded in with Rocky too. And one of the things I loved tidbits that I learned from the Amazon X-ray thing was that right before they recorded, right before they started shooting this movie, Sylvester Stallone's oldest son died of a heart attack. And then he almost pulled out of the movie. And Coogler basically talked him into reprising his role here in and kind of channeling that pain into this father son relationship between Adonis and Rocky. And I think that that's where this movie departs from the original Rocky kind of mythos. But I'm I'm curious to hear from you, Brad, remembering back to when we did Warrior.

1:03:29 Do you feel like this movie does it as well as that one did? Like specifically as far as like the father son. Father, son. But also, like, yeah, I, I just feel like it has a lot more in common with, like, these gritty people overcoming familial hurts and traumas in a way that it's not, it's not so much like a Rocky movie as it is like Warrior. That is interesting. I think Warrior is. I think there's just too much Rocky in the world of cinema to make a sport about, to make a movie about punching people that doesn't feel its influence. So I guess it's like this movie in the Rocky universe is, I would agree imitating a movie that's not in the Rocky universe, but in my opinion very clearly has Rocky esque roots, especially in the familial relationships of warrior.

1:04:25 So are they are they comparable? Yes. I I think that Warrior does it better in the fact that it's fully removed from the Rocky universe, whereas this one like for better or for worse, there are elements where he's just following the beats of the original Rocky film with a female lead who has more choice. Yeah. I mean, if I can say clear improvement on the original that that little tidbit is much much more helpful this time around. Dude watching the original Rocky in 2025, like I'm not going to judge it. It is a it's a product of its time. It's a one of the most most important American films ever made.

1:05:11 But the the way he treats Adrian as she's like, she's like, no, don't kiss me. And he kisses her. He's like, no, don't come in. And he comes in and it's like. It's the same thing as on the waterfront, like he breaks down her door and is like you will kiss me now. Yeah, it's it's apparently a very manly thing if you lived in the 50s, sixties or 70s. Do not approve. So, OK, Brad, I think we're in a good spot to get to our last segment of the day, which we call let's make it a double. We're near the end of the episodes of Things, listening to the film and Whiskey Show. Let's pair another film with this one. Even if it's struggling. It's the final segment of the day. Now let's make it a double. Let's Make It a Double is the part of the show where we pick a movie to pair up with this one to make the perfect double feature.

1:05:59 Brad, I am going to go ahead and pair this up with Warrior. I've already been talking about it. I do think that these are really, really similar movies, except that this one has a bigger budget and the benefit of having the Rocky franchise behind it to draw from. I don't know that that makes it a better movie. And I think that it would be a really interesting pairing to watch these back-to-back and then kind of hash out the pros and cons of each, because they're both damn good movies. They're really good sports movies, and they're sports movies that are trying to get at a little bit more under the surface than you typically get. So I'm going to pair it with Warrior. For all of the exact same reasons, I'll pair it with $1,000,000 Baby I I think that $1,000,000 Baby is a better version of this film where you actually get to dive into the lives of the main characters and understand their motivations and why they are who they are.

1:06:54 And I I think that Coogler could have learned something from $1,000,000 Baby. I also think it would just be a a great boxing movie night. You did pick the one movie that perhaps has worse written characters than this than this one though. Not all of them, just just. A few just just the hillbilly family. I mean, I I also thought about pairing it with Renee Zellweger and Cinderella Man. I love. I cannot wait till we revisit that one for season 10 bread. Oh dude, it's going to be great. Can you imagine, though, if you like, if you have never seen Creed or $1,000,000 baby, and you take Brad's advice on let's make it a double and you're like, oh man, oh man, let's. Creed Dollar baby second.

1:07:39 I was going to say, yeah, like, oh man, Creed lost his fight. Darn, that's kind of a bummer. I sure hope this next movie ends on a more positive. She spoiler alert, she loses her fight too. And on that note, let us say that Let's Make it a Double is sponsored by Blackwood Distilling Company. This is what you're paying for, Zach. No matter what movie you choose to pair up with Creed, you can always make it a double with Blackwood Distilling Co. Yeah, guys, if you haven't had it yet, get you some Blackwood. It is stunningly delicious.

1:08:20 Well worth every penny. I I have been slowly nursing the last bottle that we got from Zach like an addict. I need some more. It is delicious. Go buy it. Well, and I will also say in our review of the barrel toasted seagrass today, I said I've only really ever liked one other toasted product and it was Blackwood's rye. So it's has now joined elite company here with Blackwood. Brad, I think it's time for us to get into final scores here. I'm going to give this movie an 8.5. I think perhaps I, you know, the way I talked about it suggested that I don't like it as much as I do. I really do think the second-half of this movie is approaching like a 10 out of 10 level sports movie. The first half really does drag it down for me, but you're left on such a high note and I think that's the benefit of this movie is if you're going to have 1/2 of your movie be worse than the other, it's got to be the first half. And that's what this movie does.

1:09:16 I still walk out of here feeling like feeling like I could run through a wall. So I'm going to give this an 8.5 out of 10. Dude, I walked out of that movie thinking I need to do a million push ups 'cause I want to look like Michael B Jordan. We really need to explore the Freudian reasons that you keep bringing up this man's body. I am going to give this a 7 out of 10. Wow. Like I I think it's an overall enjoyable movie. I don't think any of the acting performances other than maybe Sylvester are like really powerful and and really like move me. The final boxing match is like just fine, with the insert shot sequence being really well done. The what?

1:10:04 What was her name? Bianca, I think one of the least memorable girlfriend characters I think I've ever seen in a movie. So overall I think there's a lot of issues with Creed, but on the whole it is one of those. If it was just kind of on in the background, I'd be like, yeah, that's fine. Creed decent movie. Wow, I didn't expect you to be quite so low on Creed. It's a good movie to me. It's a very good movie. Is it an 8.5 is? Is it a modern classic? Yes, with a caveat like you. Know get out of here. I I don't think that it is nearly as good as most of the movies that we're considering modern classics.

1:10:46 I think it's a modern sports classic because we haven't really had very many good sports movies in the last 20 years. It's it's got the Barry Bonds asterisk. I mean like seriously though, what other sports? Boxing movies? Like I would put Warrior up there, but like we haven't had a really great football movie in 20 years. The only good baseball movie is Moneyball. Like, there's really not a lot of sports movies anymore. What year did Remember the Titans come out? 2025 years old. 2000, Yeah, yeah. Five years before what we're considering, I knew it was. I was thinking it was like O3O4. It's kind of like with Elf, how, you know, they say that no good Christmas movies have come out since Elf and that's part of why it's such a classic. Like it's, it's almost overinflated. It's a great movie, but like each generation needs its movie. And there really hasn't been a sports movie. You haven't taught.

1:11:37 You haven't seen Hot Frosty. Come on now. Is Creed more of an elf or more of a hot hot frosty? I guess is what I'm asking you, Brad. I would say no. Creed is not a modern classic. No Asterisk needed to say, well, we haven't had a good sports movie so we might as well pick this one. I mean, do you not think this is the best sports movie of the last 15 years? 20 years. I would. I would have to do some research. I have to get back to you with those numbers. Crunch those numbers, crunch the digits. All right folks, so it's a 7.75 out of 10 for us on Creed, but we'd like to know what you think. You can always reach out to us and tell us what you think of Creed and or any of the Rocky films at any of our social media handles, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Tiktok or YouTube at Film Whiskey.

1:12:29 Or you can join the conversation on our Discord. You can find a link to our server at the end of every single one of our show notes. Next week, we are pivoting into a more recent movie, one of the films remaining on our schedule, Brad, that I'm most excited to talk to you about because our opinion on this movie has definitely changed since we first saw it. That is Everything Everywhere all at Once. Join us for that one next week, but until then, I'm Bob Book. I'm Brad Gee. And we'll see you next time.