Collateral / Johnny Drum Private Stock

0:00 So, here's the deal everybody. We just absolutely love producing as much content as possible for film and whiskey Nation. But if our regular episodes aren't enough for you, then you can head on over to patreon.com film whiskey sign up for one of our memberships and you will get a slew of extra content for your listening. Pleasure, check us out on patreon.com film, whiskey in 2004 director, Michael Mann and star. Tom Cruise asked the And one of the most important questions that they could think of is Tom Cruise, still sexy, even if he has the world's worst died. Job in 2023, we try a Kentucky bourbon of mysterious origin. The film is collateral.

0:48 The whiskey is Johnny drum Private Stock and we'll review them both. This is the filming we will see podcast. Welcome to the film and whiskey podcast, where each week, we review a classic movie and a glass of whiskey. I'm Bob book, I'm Brad G and this week we are kicking off the last mini series of season 6 brat. You know what?

1:30 This mini Serie this movie specifically made me ask myself the question of Bob. What's that? Why are we doing? Just an entire season of Tom Cruise? Oh my gosh! You know what? I keep trying to like throw you a bone, and give you more Tom, Cruise movies and its really backfiring. Because every non cruise week, you keep mentioning Cruise. Like, like, I feel like there's been three or four times. We've had a guest on, and you've been like, you know what, Jeff Bridges, and The Big Lebowski reminds me of reminds me of Tom Cruise. It's like how, how does that remind you Tom Cruise, Brad. You know what? The crazy thing is. I don't think that my Crews Obsession started until like, well into the podcast, like, like, before we started the podcast, I like Tom Cruise. I like Ted, you tomorrow.

2:17 You know, I enjoyed the mission. Impossibles. I think, though, outside of that I had may be seen, Like, Rain, Man, and Jerry Maguire. And so it's not like, I was well versed in the crews in the cruiser. Verse then, what about I've come now to the point where I'm just like he is our greatest living act, I don't know about that, but I was going to say, you know, that's the thing with cruises until you really sit down and start analyzing his movies, I think he's still just flies under the radar as an actor and watching this movie, I'm going to say something controversial Brad maybe outside of the podcast but controversial just between you and me. It made me.

3:00 I have sad about Mission Impossible and top gun Maverick because hmm he I don't want to say he's comfortable now but it's pretty clear that at this point of his career like he's just going to keep doing that thing until it just doesn't work anymore. Yeah. And I just, I mean, Miss Cruz doing like, taking big swings as an actor. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. No. I mean we saw the same thing with Leo for years and years and years like he was playing the exact same character in a bunch. Of different roles incredibly well, so that he could win an Oscar and it's like we haven't seen as much variety from Leo as I think we could have if he had gotten his Oscar out of the way early in his career and then had the freedom to take risks and stuff when he was younger.

3:45 But now he's basically, you know, in the dirt and he'll never change in the dirt. Jeez, what is he dead, close enough? Right. I was like, 150. Yeah, you know he's like Almost 50 years old. All right, so we're kicking things off this week with collateral, like we said, it is the last mini series of the season and we reserved this three weeks pan for our listener, pick you met, you might have forgotten about this listeners of film and whiskey. It's been like four months, five months now, but early on, in the season, we offered up for directors for you to pick from and the winner by a large margin and heavily influenced by our friend movie critic. Hmm.

4:28 Daniel's y0. And all of his The network is, Michael Mann and Brad. I gotta say, like, I put Michael Mann on here because I think over the last five, six years, especially there's really been a man Essence in, like movie criticism. There's a really good girl allowed to say that in 2023. Yeah, there's a really loud and vocal contingent of movie critics that just love Michael man. They loved everything that he's about, I don't know man to analyze. How existential his movies are and to be frank with you, I wouldn't say it's good. Would you say it's in kind of a similar like how people look at Fight Club and like treat it?

5:13 Like, it's this existential Masterpiece of masculinity and stuff. No, not so much because I think man Films are much more brooding if that's a, that's a word I can use like there's a lot more contemplation going on or at least it gives the impression of contemplation and I think that there's this a lot of dudes out there that really like that. And again I'm not trying to like if Michael Mann is your thing, like awesome. But I put him on this list specifically because I want someone to come talk to me about Michael Mann and try to convince me. Why? He is as good as, as these people say he is because like, would you You say that they are putting him on like an st or he's up there with the greatest of all time and you're just kind of saying like he's great, but not Scorsese Spielberg, you know, Kubrick level of great.

6:04 Yeah, for sure. And, you know, next week, we're going to get into looking at the movie Heat, which is pretty widely considered his Masterpiece at this point. And that's really become an object of veneration for these people. And and so, like I said, you know, I try to make this Available to people to come argue with me and try to convince me because I want to learn more about Brad. I spent like the whole day reading these highly academic books about the philosophy of, Michael Mann, in the cinema of Michael Mann. And dude, like, I just, I don't know if he's for me, I'll say it like that, you know? I'm saying, like his movies are good. I'm going to give this movie a good score. It is a good little Thriller of a movie, but I just don't know if there's that much there.

6:48 Beneath the surface for us. To talk about. Yeah, well, I mean it's it's like you read the article about this movie that's, you know, might be fawning over it or over him as a director and then you think about what you experienced watching the movie and the two things just don't match up. Is that kind of what you're saying? Yeah I just I just don't think it's that deep Bro. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like I mean I don't want to like spoil our entire take but I think that you're right. This is a fun little action thriller that As moments of like, genuine deep thought about what it means to be a human and I think that the moments are perfectly timed their, they don't take up too much space in the movie there, just enough to give a little bit of depth to the film and I think if they were anymore, it probably would have detracted from what he was going for.

7:41 But I don't think that that makes this, you know, a 9 and a half out of ten type of movie. I just, it's a really fun crazy little a Action movie. Yeah. All right. We're going to get into talking about that movie now because it is time for us to Pivot into Brad explains. This is the part of the podcast, where Brad breaks down the plot of the movie that he has just seen often for the first time Brad. I know this was your first time seeing collateral, but is it also your first, Michael Mann, film? Oh, I am pretty sure that it is. Wow. Okay. I would have to, I would have to look down his list, which I actually have right here because I was doing Research. I don't think I have seen any of his movies. There you go, or even like his TV shows that he's done. Well then, my master plan is working out very well because I thought this would be a really good entry point into Michael Mann, heat, which will watch next week, is a movie that it takes a lot of the themes of this movie and expands on them. There's a lot more contemplation, it's a lot more existentialism, it's three hours long. So I was like, I don't want to start with heat. Let's start with collateral.

8:49 Cyril and kind of work our way back to that. And then we're going to wrap things up with The Last of the Mohicans, which is again, our friend. Daniel is why o is going to join us for that. It's his favorite movie of all time and it's very different than a movie like this or like heat. So I'm excited to talk about that but I figured we needed to set the stage with these kind of you know Urban existentialist dramas that he does and we're kicking it off with collateral. So Brad you've got 60 seconds on the clock to break down the plot of this. This movie and go Bob. That is the first time you've ever just completely skipped explaining what Brad explains is. But that's okay. I don't need much time here.

9:31 Collateral is a film about a taxi driver named Max and a Hitman an assassin named Vincent and the film is about how Vincent gets into Max's cab takes him to the first location and a body falls out of the off of the roof onto the top of Max's taxi and he is drawn into this plot where he has to make five stops throughout the night. Kill five people, there's an FBI Nets that is slowly closing around them as Max learns that they're actually killing off. Informants to the FBI, and that's about it man. They go on a journey, it's pretty crazy, nice. I mean that, yeah, that's the plot of the movie, it's really, there's not that much happening.

10:20 They know they try to introduce a pretty contrived or not contrived but like convoluted subplot about, you know, the DA's office and these people That Vincent is trying to kill and who the cops are after. But essentially, it's just two guys in a cab talking about life and wouldn't, you know, it they're more alike than you would think that they are. All right, so before we get off the topic of, Michael Mann, let's set the stage a little bit for the next three weeks. And I guess I'll say this, you know, from what I know about, Michael Mann, here are the things to look for when we talk about, you know, a directors, kind of signature style and The thing that I keep seeing pop-up especially from people who loved Michael Mann is this theme of people's relationship to their work and especially the way that people's work becomes an obsession in their life and gives them meaning in a chaotic world. So you're going to see this like next week in heat where I mean it's again it's about the interplay between a Gangster and a cop and how they're more like than they seem and how their work bleeds into their personal life and kind of takes Over like it's a theme, we keep seeing but then he also infuses, you know, I've said the word existentialism a couple times now and man, I Brad if there's one thing I don't really want to talk about in this podcast, it's existentialism. But what you talking about, man?

11:45 You think you were a theology major. That's like your whole bit and parcel I was trying to think of like, how do I distill down? What I think, Michael, Mann movies are, and I if I could make it into a meme, You watch the office? We've talked about the office before announcer episode where where what her Dwight keeps getting in trouble for like it's you know the one where he sets the office on fire or it's the one where he cuts the face off of the mannequin and is like doing Hannibal Lecter. Fun fact both the same episode oh there you go. Okay so they go to New York City and then Michael Scott just looks out the window and he goes this city.

12:25 And then he like goes into whatever else you'd saying. Yes that's Michael man. It's just people in these empty sprawling Urban environments where the emptiness and disconnection of the modern American city is a reflection of their own emptiness and disconnection and they're trying to connect with it. And it's the reason that Christopher Nolan you know, borrows so heavily from Michael Mann and especially from heat when he's making the Dark Knight trilogy. Like it's a very obvious connection. So, I mean, I guess, look at Michael Mann through the lens that you would look through. Chris Nolan's, Batman. That's your, that's your entry point. And that's our entry point into talking about this movie, Brad. I want to know where you want to go with this. Do you want to talk about your boy, Tom Cruise? Do you want to go a little bit deeper on the Michael, Mann stuff?

13:14 Like, where should we start today? I think it's worth talking a little bit about the Michael Mann stuff. All right, here, you do it. Yeah, I'm curious what you think about him, especially in terms of the cinematography of this film. Because for me, like, there are there are portions of the action sequences that really work. And then other ones that just feel like they have about like eight or nine beats too many to them, where they just, he drags out. The scene a little bit too long, and there's nothing really adding to the tension. Does that make sense? Yeah, I think so. That's more of an editing thing than it is, like the actual like shot composition and stuff.

13:55 But this movie was pretty notable because it was one of the first movies to really dive headfirst into using digital photography. And so like Michael Mann was known for being super stylized filmmaker especially like in the early years of Miami Vice and then all the way through to heat. And he caught a lot of crap for that. And I think that's what tipped him into wanting to use. Handheld, cameras, more and go digital. And I think that this movie, weirdly looks like a relic of 2004 because of that, like, I think digital cameras have come a long way in what they can pick up and what they can't or what they couldn't in 2004. Like it looks very camcorder e. Now by today's standards, right?

14:37 But I'm with you man, I think that this movie it's not it doesn't have the the beauty The of a movie like heat, but I think that works for the story they're trying to tell. It's a much more kind of like Lowdown. Gritty action thriller. Yeah. But I'm interested to hear what you thought about like the editing of it. It sounds like you think that there there's moments of this movie that they could have probably trimmed down. Yeah, so like here's an example. So when I think about tension building in a scene, you know, I think a classic example of that would be Inglourious Basterds when they're at the bar and, you know, they're drinking with the Is and so on and so forth. And Tarantino is a master class in an of himself of ratcheting, up tension and any of his movies. But what happens in this film is Jamie Foxx gets sent into this club, right?

15:29 And he he and Vincent are going to kill this, this Korean mobster essentially and they're walking into the club. And Man shows the LAPD detective walking into The club and then he shows the FBI going into the club. You know, guns drawn and stuff and then he shows another gang going into the club to try and kill. I don't even remember like they're trying to kill Vincent. Vincent doesn't do the job. I don't know. It's convoluted essentially, he sets the stage, everybody's going into this highly populated club, and what's going to happen? But then for like three minutes straight, it's just shots of people dancing at the club.

16:15 Vincent walking through it, Mark Ruffalo walking through it, the FBI people walking through it and then more shots of, you know, Jamie Foxx walking through it. And it's, it's like you've already established the tension. They're all in the same room, but they can't see each other. And then, let's do that over and over and over again, for three minutes, there's nothing that like increases the tension or makes it more dangerous for Any of our main characters, it's just the same tension for three and a half minutes of like shots of people dancing at a club. And I was just like, oh this is supposed to be really tense, but I'm losing interest very quickly. You know, that's really funny. You said that there was a few reviews of this movie that I looked up that kind of took Michael Mann to task as a guy that doesn't know how to direct action that well, and I've never heard that before. But watching it in this movie, I think I'm with you a little bit. It did some don't want to say it's like Incoherent, but there's, there's lots of movement, with, not a great sense of geography.

17:14 And especially inside that nightclub, there's moments where it seems like, oh, you can understand somebody's looking over somebody else's shoulder somebody's on that side of the room like and then that person gets shot and then another person comes in the room and you have no idea where you're at anymore and it just kind of keeps re-establishing or trying to re-establish the geography. And it kind of becomes a muddled mess. And I even think that that final the final shootout between Queen Jamie Foxx, and Tom Cruise, it happens so quickly and with, so little impact that it kind of pulled me out of the ending of the movie a little bit. I thought that they could have. That's, that's a moment where they could have taken a beat to really, you know, because they're on opposite sides of a closed like subway door, and they're kind of looking at their own Reflections as they shoot at each other, and it's a great little moment, and I feel like you could have added one little beat of them, each kind of staring into their own reflection as A shoot it, you know, to drive home these thematic Point, you're trying to make but also just to ratchet up the tension there and yeah, man, doesn't do it. Can I also say that I'm normally not this guy like I let movies be what they want to be, but the one thing of realism that really took me out at the end at the exact scene you're talking about that, shoot out where they're like five feet from each other in a very enclosed metal car.

18:35 I'm like they have this shootout. Tom Cruise goes to reload. Have any more ammo and he sits down because he got shot and he's gonna die and they have a really nice quiet moment together. And and I love the ending line for Tom Cruise, where he calls back to the man who died on the MTA and wrote it for like, you know, six hours before somebody realized he was dead and it's a beautiful moment. However they just fired about probably 20 to 30 rounds between the two of them in a very He tightly enclosed space that without any ear protection. They would not. They would have been screaming at each other. I was gonna say, yes.

19:18 Speaking in Whispers, right? Yeah, exactly. Like Tom Cruise has this beautiful quiet moment that neither of them would have been able to hear. That's all right man. Let's talk about performance. As we've gone too deep on these themes. I want to pull back a little bit. Let's talk about Tom Cruise, this is Tom Cruise. I don't want to say at Peak Tom Cruise because that was probably Mid to late 90s but for me it's him coming off of one of his best periods as an actor, right? Like even if you go back and count Magnolia in 99 with Paul Thomas Anderson and then into Vanilla Sky, with Cameron Crowe which is a freaking weird movie but it was a huge swing into him working with Spielberg on Minority Report and then this movie leading back into another collaboration with Spielberg. Like he really seemed like he was trying to stretch himself. And work with the best possible filmmakers of the time. And I just love that in the middle of that. We get this Tom Cruise villain performance like how many Tom Cruise villain performances have there ever been? Yeah, I mean Haley asked me as we were watching it. She was like, hold on a second.

20:25 Has Tom Cruise ever died in the movie and I like reflected on all the movies I'd seen. And I was like, well, technically, an edge of tomorrow, he dies, like, a billion times, right? But he doesn't really die, but he, Don't really die. So, like, will throw that out and I was like, I genuinely don't think he's died in any movie, I've seen and sure enough. This is the one that he dies in second. I'm gonna take you to task for a second Bob. Tom Cruise doesn't have a peek to his career. His entire career is at a peak is a peek. Thank you very much. There we go. I think. You're right, though, in saying that Tom Cruise playing a villain.

21:07 Feels like such an important step for him as a character. Like I guess I can't really think of any time that our other beloved Tom of the Hanks variety has ever, like really truly played a villain and you've seen more of his films. So maybe he has but Elvis baby, I guess that's true. He waited till you know 2022. So how important do you think it is for Leading Men? To at some point in their career play. Just just a cut-and-dried villain. Like Tom Cruise is bad in this movie. He definitely is slightly philosophical, but that makes him no less evil.

21:49 Hmm, no, I think it is important just for You know what? I just for me. I think it's a sign that the actor is not insecure. Hmm. Yeah. Like as a person like and and has a need to be liked and is afraid that if they do something that's a little out of the ordinary or a little daring that their career is going to end. So it's kind of like when when LeBron left Cleveland and he embraced his villain role and he sure did he didn't really have a choice but he sure he embraced it after a while. Like and again, that's it gets me back to the Leo thing that you brought up earlier like Leo's. Really been a villain has he? I said, oh Django. He did Django. And that was a very villainous villain.

22:30 So I, you know, I was it really though but it took until 2012 to do it. But when you were asking me the question, the thought immediately popped into my head of when we looked at the Departed and how I always try to praise Matt Damon because Matt Damon just seems like a guy who is an A-list actor who has none of the ego or pretension of and A list actor like and is kind of bland enough as a person that like, we don't even really think of him as an ableist actor, but he really is, do you know what I mean? Like, yeah, I don't mean to call the guy Bland, but he honestly isn't cording publicity. Yeah. And the fact that he could be such a freakin slimeball in the darted, like, I think it says a lot about him.

23:17 Yeah. Honestly, I think that if Mark Wahlberg didn't exist, we would think of Matt Damon differently because, you know, Damon is also a Boston guy, but Mark Wahlberg, like, is Boston and to the point where it almost like kind of eliminates. Matt. Damon's Boston - Matt Damon. Feels like he's from Nebraska by comparison, I mean, yeah. All right. Are you wrong in that comparison? Because no, not make sense to me. Yeah, but I had to your question. Go ahead, good. But I'm with you. I think that Damon taking on, not just the villain role but like a really sleazy cowardly. Villain role is like a major step for him as an actor. Yeah.

24:04 And I think this is a big step for Crews that he immediately decided like was a step too far because he never goes back to it again and I guess this is where I'll be the most controversial. I'll ever be about Tom Cruise on our podcast Brad and it's still a compliment. I think Tom Cruise is such an underrated actor that he's Good in this movie. And I still think he might not have been the right choice for this role. Hmm, I don't know if that makes 100% sense, but like he works but I could see this working a lot better with somebody else. All right, well if you're going to critique it you got to offer a solution. Who are you putting in this role? Well, I was trying to think of back into 2004 Bob, you're listening to Green Day your, you know, my in high school.

24:52 Listen, if it looks like the Green Day, sorry you're listening to Meet me in st. Louis, so you're the worst. All right, I was trying to think of people that would work and and honestly you know, Cruz is probably the best available choice because you know I think like an Edward Norton would work really well in this role but he was a little bit young here. I think honestly I think if you want someone that's comparable to a cruise in terms of star power who can also play that kind of like cold aloofness that you need for this role and kind of condescension I think Brad Pitt. Probably would have been a better choice for this huh Brad Pitt would be a great villain. Here's the thing though.

25:34 I think that Brad Pitt has too much of a this is going to sound weird because I think you could say this about Tom Cruise, I think Brad Pitt is like too shiny and like to. I don't think he could play The Invisible Man as well as Tom Cruise does like like Tom is wearing the most Bland Race suit with, you know, gray hair, and like, he has just this toned down this about his, his acting that I don't know if you would get from Brad Pitt. Hmmm. Well, I mean, you know, agree to disagree. Luckily we really don't have to entertain that too much, because I think Tom Cruise is good in this movie.

26:17 I just think that there's moments where especially in those monologues where I could tell that this isn't something that feels like it's coming from within time. Bruise. It feels like it's it's coming from a script. Hmm. Yeah. I mean like there's just a certain level of disbelief that I can't suspend with Tom Cruise and I love the guy to death and I'm glad he challenged himself here. But like this performance is like a 8.5 out of 10 and I'm just like, oh is there somebody out there that could have been like a 9.5 in this role? Yeah, see I actually disagree. I think that Tom has. I think what makes him special for this role. Ole is his ability to be to portray a cool calm collected character all the way through to the very end.

27:06 And I think that's what makes his his monologue special, is that the few moments, he shows a little bit of emotion, throughout our when he's talking about what he believes about the world and about humanity. And it's just barely enough to show that, like, this character has a lot of depth, and I think that Tom pulls that off and Probably. Well, all right on the other side of things you've got Jamie Foxx who is in this year nominated for two Oscars, he wins best actor for Ray. He's nominated for best supporting actor for this movie. And again, I think this is at a moment in Jamie Foxx's career where people hadn't quite woken up to the fact that he could do dramatic acting very well, you know, before this, he collaborates with Michael Mann in the movie Ali, and, and then so, when people see him in re, and then see him in this movie, and especially, in this movie, Where, you know, his characters Arc is repressing his own, I don't know, cowardice 4/4 3/4 of the movie.

28:05 And then finally, you know, stepping up to the plate. I guess in the last, you taking ownership of his life in the last fourth of it, it's really great dramatic performance. It's just really funny to me to think about like, Jamie Foxx, getting double Oscar nominated and the same year. Mmm. And I think that, if he, if he deserved anything Oscar related from this movie, it That conversation that he has with Felix. Yeah, Daddy are Bardem the moment where he takes retail, well, known even before that, oh, you're right. Go ahead, say what you're saying. I was just going to say the the moment where he slowly like looks at the guy behind him and he's like, tell your guy to put his gun away before I beat his with it, and he takes his glasses glasses off. It's like, oh snap.

28:53 And he gets the like I'm Jamie Foxx, I'm cool. As hell. Look on his face, he goes from being like a cowardly, kind of sniveling guy to like, I'm at least going to project confidence and it's like, it is such a great subtle shift in like posture and facial expression that conveys intention. It's a great performance, man. Here's the the frustration for me. He never fully returns to that, even as he's going to save the girl and, you know, beat this cold. Blooded calculating you know assassin. He never fully returns to that confident. I'm like I am going to destroy you. Yeah that look that he has in that moment for me. I think the movie would have been so much more impactful if he wasn't calling.

29:47 What was her name? Annie? Yeah, played by Jada Pinkett Smith if he wasn't calling you out an enti. You got two white. Oh my gosh! He's like if he was in full control of the situation, if he had a confidence that you would have known wasn't necessarily natural to him, but the situation was calling him up to deliver that confidence. I like that would have been an impactful movie for me in a way that this just didn't quite deliver because you only get it. When he's pretending to be Vincent, I wanted to see that confidence transition from I'm pretending to be Vincent to No, I'm Max, And I Know Who I Am. Mmm.

30:30 Yeah. I mean, I don't think that's the Jamie Foxx fault. I'm sure that the script called for him, to kind of return to that. So, I think Jamie Foxx is incredible. I just wish I just wish I had seen more of that. I like that take. I'd I mean, I do think that it's very telling that he doesn't go back to it because that's not really him. Like he still is scared and figuring it out, and he doesn't have to pretend to be in control. He's still like very much not in control, and Vincents in control. And so I do like the he's able to play both sides of that. It reminded me a lot of his performance in Django which is really, really layered because, you know, you've got Django pretending to be this other version of Django who is confident, but this Django's not confident and like I think Jamie Foxx is really good at kind of juggling all of that at one time Brad before we go to break, there's two more people that I think we really should touch on here because there's not a lot of people in this movie but it's Jada Pinkett.

31:26 Smith and Mark Ruffalo. And with Jada Pinkett Smith. I've seen a lot of her movies. I can't say that I've seen every movie she's ever made, but I will say that I do think this is her best performance ever. She really conveys, I mean that first scene with her and Jamie Foxx like the chemistry is off the charts man. It's really really great. Just kind of like I acting from both of them because they're just looking at each other in a rearview mirror but they establish a very believable interest. An infatuation and attraction between the two of them that then, you know, her character becomes kind of the the cut and paste. I'm scared, I'm running away from the bad guy at the end, right?

32:07 But I still thought that they gave her enough to chew on that. She really did. She was able to sink her teeth into this role? Yeah. I liked her well enough. I think this isn't even issue with her performance. I think it was just the obvious setup of like, oh, the fifth victim is going to be her and I don't know if they Of made it so that you didn't realize that, but it felt like such an obvious move that for me. It kind of took away from her character, a tiny bit. Hmm. And once again this isn't that's not a comment on her performance. I'm with you though. I think that her opening performance, her ability to become vulnerable to Max it portrays the the the confidentiality of anonymity that you find, you know, Taxi cab drivers are famous for.

32:57 You know, you'll tell them any things, you'll never see him again. And so, I think that they portray that really well with their interactions and it's like believable. It's the one thing that she pulls off that I think is crazy. Is that, by the end of their cab ride, it's just almost believable. That she a high-powered. L, a prosecutor would give a taxi driver her number. And like the fact that the fact that she can pull that, At off. Just barely, I don't know if I fully believed it, but I went along with it but the fact that she can pull that off, I'm like, okay. All right, good job Jada. All right. And then finally Mark Ruffalo, Mark Ruffalo was not super famous yet here. He was like on the edge of kind of blowing up in a couple things he'd been in some really well reviewed. Indie movies he'd probably want a couple smaller awards at this point I mean this comes out the same year as Eternal Sunshine. So like he's at that point in his career. I just really love seeing Mark Ruffalo here. And if there is one moment in the movie, where the movie, truly catches me off guard, spoiler alert for anyone who hasn't seen it but it's one ruffle his character gets killed and that is a moment where I loved the the brutality of how they don't Linger on it at all.

34:14 It's like it happens in the blink of an eye. Really similar to The Departed. You know, talking about literally yeah. I was literally about to say it's very similar to The Departed. I actually as they Were walking out as soon as they got separated at the door a little bit, I was like oh he dead. He is so dead. That bop bop bop that was like yep. That that's it. He's gone now. I don't know man. What you think of the performance? I don't I mean I don't really know if there's a lot there to talk about. It's kind of like there's a part of this script and I think the whole cop subplot gets really contrived and really like, I don't know, man. It's just not that interesting. It's pretty by the, by the numbers. And ruffalo's a good actor but like there's just not that much there for him to do.

35:01 Well, I think that the place where it gets contrived is that they try to make like a little bit of a rivalry between the local cop and the FEDS, I think that what would have made that subplot work is by not making it a subplot and just saying LAPD is, you know, is working this case and they're trying to protect these people and that's it. Like, don't bring the feds in or just make it all the feds and leave the LAPD out of India. Like Like don't make it a big that part of it, a big deal, just let there be this this, you know, Patriot Act Anonymous police force that is slowly closing the net and you don't have to spend much time with it and I think that would have worked much much better as far as ruffalo's performance goes as fine.

35:51 I don't think he had much to sink his teeth into. I will say that hair and makeup did an incredible job because I had no idea who it was until He spoke. And I was like, oh, that's Mark Ruffalo, that's Mark, right? I legit had zero clue that. That was him until he started talking and it took me a second. I was like, wait a second, I know that voice. Well, that's Mark Ruffalo when I was he has a lot of grease in his hair. When I was in high school I had a like a running joke with a buddy of mine. We would always do the Mark Ruffalo from Eternal Sunshine, voice at each other like the scene where we're him and Kirsten Dunst are like out on the curb and she's asking him like, did you know?

36:35 And he just goes, I really like you marry Steve. Oh we were just like we pass each other in the hallway. Go. I'd really like you marry Steve. Oh, it's so when you say that that Mark Ruffalo opens his mouth and collateral. All I can imagine coming out of his mouth was just because I really like you, Tom Cruise mob out of all the movies to have an inside joke with your friend about You need to pick better movies. All right, man, I'll say it. Listen, I have picked a good whiskey today. So let's transition away from this. For a second. We're going to press pause, we're going to drink this Johnny drum, and then we'll come back and finish out collateral. What do you say? That was a killer segue.

37:17 Then let's do it. Oh, they're ubiquitous, it's me, George. Be stagger back again to Delight your ears. With a 60-second. Whiskey appraisal today's episode is brought to you by Doc's Swensons. The legendary blending Wizards over there. Have created for us an incredible new addition to their exploratory, Cask series, The French toasted this delicious pours, a straight bourbon whiskey finished in French Oak. Casks and my oh, my has it, the bee's knees. The nose is a bombastic balance of butter and pecans with vanilla note on the side on the Alex, you've got some incredible caramel mixing with notes of orange creamsicle Rich cheesecake and black pepper to finish things off. We've got a nice Kentucky hug to go along with a bunch of pepper and Oak.

38:01 There are some long-lasting flavor here folks, and I'll be darned of Doc's Swensons didn't knock this one, out of the park it's that good Folks at on over to your local speak easier. Go to Doc's whisky.com in order to partake in the hottest juice in town. Until next time, this is George be stagger signing off. Alright, so today we are checking out Johnny, drum Private Stock. Now I say the full name of it because there's actually I think three whiskeys that are bottled under the Johnny drum label. There's this one, there's one with the green label and there's one earlier at least, there used to be one with a black label and the green and black, or like dirt cheap whiskeys.

38:43 So, this is the one that, like, when people talk about, Johnny drum, they want the Private Stock, one, this is produced by the Willett Distillery. Who always brand themselves as Kentucky bourbon distillers on their on their labels that just avoid saying, it's will it Distillery? But part of that is because at least some of this whiskey is sourced. It's not all made at the Willett Distillery but will it is like kind of notorious for being real hush-hush about where they Source their stuff from. So I like no one has any idea how much of this is made by Willett how much of it is Blended with sourced product, all we know is that it says that it's distilled and bottled. By the Johnny drum Distilling Company, which is just a euphemism for Willett and it's 101.

39:28 Proof. It's really freaking good. Brad, it's nonage stated. I guess at some point, it was a 15-year bourbon no longer that, probably, because they're blending it with other stuff, but I'm really freaking pumped to try this. Dude, I was telling you off. Are, I've been holding onto this bottle for like a year. I tried this one day and I was like, oh my God, we have to get this on the podcast. And, of course, when I say that it usually takes about a year for something to get on the podcast and I was going through this bottle so quickly that I had to stop myself. So I haven't opened it and sipped it in a year. That is a long time to hold off, bobbum, a very proud of you. I saved myself for you, Brad, hello. Oh, man.

40:08 And I'm sick this night this evening to 90. When I pulled up the schedule and saw that we were doing Johnny drum. I like Ike. I did a jig. Like, it was incredible. It was a joke. Did you call your friend and tell him? Oh, Mary, I really like you. There's my boo. We're gonna do Johnny, drum, and now, man. So you're feeling under the weather. So, Your opinion may be a bit a bit tainted but I love this whiskey so much that if probably just balance out in the long run. Yeah. And I think that's fair. I went once you've drank enough whiskey, you can kind of tell when you're sick if your palate is just completely wrecked or if you know, it's just a little bit often as far as I can tell.

40:51 I think, my pals just a little bit off tonight. And so I think I'm a little I think I balance that out with my scores to say, hey, I like I think this is a solid whiskey, but I I don't know if I'm able to say, it's a really great whiskey or it's just an average whiskey, so let it be known. Yeah, let it be nice. If it's a great whiskey, it's official opinion of film. And whiskey, this is fantastic stuff and Raising Arizona sucks. So, the nose on this one, I got green apple leather and vanilla pretty pretty strongly throughout. Okay? And I gave it a 7 & a half So again anything that comes from will it, I've talked about the Willett Funk it's not really funky and and I've been realizing this over the last couple Seasons but we trademarked that Nate and we got to sell some t-shirts that say will it funk?

41:40 So I got to keep using it. It's really just rose petal. It's really, really strongly Rose. There's a ton of floral on everything that comes out of, will it. And underneath that on this one it's like it's rose petal followed by some rise spice and then after like two or three knows things, it becomes Suburban it's caramel. It's lots of vanilla but that floral is over writing. Everything else not in a bad way but it just it never goes away on any one of your nose things Brad. This is like for me I love will it stuff and this is like the platonic ideal of the will, it knows? I'm gonna give this a nine point five on the nose. All right, well for me as we moved into the palette, I thought that that Apple continued on through with a ton of caramel and then as I sat with it for a while, it got a little bit okey and there's a little bit of like tobacco notes coming out the that I thought were pretty good but overall the the caramel was just like overwhelming here and not in a bad way, but I think the complexity kind of came down a little bit, I'll give it a 7 out of 10. Yeah for me this is where that leather note really comes back. It's like that rose petal.

42:53 Really transforms into like a leathery flavor. I would say flavor, but like, I've never eaten a You know what I mean? Like it's it's what I imagine that leather would taste like but you're right. There's there's some really nice caramel notes underneath that I think 101 is the perfect proof point for this Brad. Like it's got a nice, it packs a nice punch, it's not harsh at all and it's super viscous. This is like a really thick coat, your mouth kind of whiskey. I will say that towards the back of the palate, it gets a little bit bitter for a hot second and then the Rose comes back into cover up for that but it's like an unmistakable. Oh, this went from sweet to Bitter and it's a huge drop off and then only like a gradual recovery.

43:39 So I'm going to I'm going to ding it a little bit there but I still like it enough to give it an 8 out of 10. Yeah. The Finish is a little bit nicer than the palate. It stays nice and okey vanilla comes through. And then for me the tobacco almost transformed into a much more baking spice notes. That just got nice and spicy on the end that I was, I was kind of not expecting, so I'll give it a seven and a half out of 10 there. Yeah. The thinnest, like I said, you know, it really Blends in with the end of the tasting but the leather gets a little bitter and then the rose comes back into play. And its really mingled for me with like Char, just like a deep burnt wood Char and then a nice little layer of vanilla to round it out. It's a great combination of smoke. Okey floral bitter and then sweet to finish it off. I think this is a really complex whiskey for what it is Brad. Like this is not a btech, this is not something that's been Aging for 17 years but I think you can tell that whatever the oldest stock in this is it's got to be pretty well age because there's complexity here that you just don't get on, even like a four-year bourbon.

44:51 Yeah, I don't give it a score. Yeah, give me a sec. I'm gonna give it a, an eight and a half on the Finish. Okay. Yeah. And I think I agree with On the all those points and that's why I give it an 8 out of 10 on balance. I think that you just get a really solid expression of flavor throughout this whiskey that you don't always find on on slightly cheaper Whiskey's that don't have an age statement. Yeah I'm going to give this hmm I want to give it a 9 but the the flavor the palette was just a little bit of a lower experience. I'll give it an eight and a half on balance you know we were talking off air Brad. Part of the reason I love this is because it reminds me so much of that Watershed Barrel that we picked about a year ago.

45:36 Yeah. So if you've tried the film in whiskey Watershed pick, that's my flavor profile. Like that's what I really love. I love that floral note. I love that sort of leather Enos to complement. Those classic bourbon notes. This is just a lower proof version of that and I'm freaking in love with it. So I'm going to give it an eight and a half on the balance that takes us to value. Now, Brad, I know that this is not Sold in the state of Ohio. I picked up this bottle in Kentucky, I'm not entirely sure what the distribution looks like. This might be one of those ones that you can only really get in Kentucky. I think it's worth it, but what are you finding online? In terms of price point, it looks like it's anywhere from 35 to 50 dollars, so I just called it like a 42. 42 45 dollar range? I don't know. 42 bucks something in there. Yeah, I bought this in 2021, I think. For $35, I imagine that it would have gone up a little bit so like I, yeah, I would call it like 40 to 42 and at that price point, Brad like, you know, again, I love this whiskey. I think this is darn good.

46:44 The only thing in this price point that I would 100% say is a better value than this is wild. Turkey. Rare Breed. Hmm. But again, that's a bucks, a barrel proof whiskey. So at 101 proof, I don't really know that you could be doing that. Much better than this. I'm going to give this a nine out of ten on value. Yeah, I'll give it a 7 out of 10. I think that at $40 this is a this is a really solid value in the world of whiskey. I think that if it hit like 48-52 anything higher than that I think the score would drop pretty quickly for me. But yeah, I think seven out of ten here. Alright that's bringing me out to a forty three and a half out of 50.

47:25 I really like this whiskey Brad, what are you coming out to? I'm just A little bit lower. I'm at a thirty seven out of fifty thirty seven out of fifty so that takes us to an 80.5 out of 100 or a 40 Point 25 out of 50. This is hitting the 40 mark and it's I mean, I'll be real. It's hitting the 40 mark because of me, but it sounds like Brad, you're still in that zone where you would give this a recommendation for sure. Yeah, I would easily recommend picking up a bottle especially at the 40 dollar price point, like if you know what you're getting into with this, I think. Easily worth the $40 even if you want to share it with a friend. Like like split the cost, go out and get it and I would say try it at the bar. I don't think that this would cost you a lot at a whiskey bar, so go for it.

48:13 If you ask me to line up like my favorite whiskies in the world. This is one of them. I haven't I've really never talked about this with the abroad because I wanted you to try it without hearing my opinion, but if you ask me to kind of make a flight of available whiskeys, I'd probably Bubbly, put something from Rebel in there are probably like Rebel distillers collection. I probably put like a wild turkey Rare Breed in there. And I put this in there because I think that represents three distinct flavor profiles and it's like the best version of all three of those flavor profiles. I think this is just a stellar Stellar Bourbon. And that's, that's an interesting thought. I think mine would just be barrel. Seagrass and like a few scotches barrel seagrass and then like to water Chasers.

48:59 Yes. All right man. Let's get back into talking about collateral. What do you say? Yeah let's get to it. All right, everybody. That was Johnny, drum a whiskey. The Bob and I are both in agreement really solid whiskey. Damn good whiskey. Damn good. You know what else is? Damn good. Bob my record at two facts on a falsehood. Wow. You know, you can tell yourself that I'm a solid AFC wild card team. Yeah, I know. We give you that. Yeah, sure. I got ten and seven Squad kind of a thing. Yeah, you might make a run at the championship. Yeah, yeah.

49:40 All right everybody. This is the segment of the podcast where I try to trick Bob by giving him three facts. One of which would is a falsehood. So, Bob, are you ready? Not explain that better. I give him three facts. One of, which is falsehood that to make any sense at all. It totally makes sense. All right, they'll figure it out. Hit me with you and your down to facts on a falsehood fax. Number one. According to Michael, man. Vincent, the character is a man, able to get in and out of any We're without anyone recognizing or remembering him to prepare for the role. Tom Cruise, had to make UPS deliveries in a crowded Los Angeles Market. Without anybody recognizing him. Fact, number two before Michael Mann was hired Spike. Lee Martin Scorsese and Steven Spielberg were all offered the chance to direct the movie.

50:28 Both Scorsese and Lee showed interest before, passing on the offer. Fact number three, initially, the film had been written to take place in New York City, but following the attacks on 9/11, a rewrite was commissioned to replace the location and flavor of the script to to be in LA. I know that number three is true. I least know that number 3 was originally supposed to be set. It was supposed to be set in New York City. I don't know if it was because of September 11 that they changed it, but I'm gonna go ahead and say three is true based on that. Number two, sounds like it could be true. Number one is the one that's standing out to me is a falsehood. And it's just because I could be wrong.

51:10 I have a hard time thinking that Tom Cruise in 2004 could go anywhere without like, with any level of anonymity. And I know this man jumps out of planes, regularly and flies helicopters and does all sorts of stuff, but I think if number one turns out to be true, it will be like the greatest feat he's ever pulled off because I just, I don't know how you can get around in 04 as Tom Cruise. I'm going to say one's the falsehood Brad. Bob you are 100% incorrect. Wow. And I will say out of all the facts I've ever pulled for this, I actually checked and there is a video of Tom Cruise doing this that I'm going to send you what really 100%. Yeah, he worked at the only thing he did was he, you know, he wore the uniform, he wore the brown hat and he wore a pair of sunglasses.

52:07 Glasses. That like, that was the only thing that he did. But other than that, like, watching the video, you're like, oh no, that's Tom, like, it is very clearly Tom Cruise and he pulled it off. Co is I hate when they're like, yeah, he totally did it. But then he find out, you know, and he wore a mustache, and a fake nose, and a pair of sunglasses and a scarf. It's like, well skate, like I don't know if I would say just a pair of sunglasses is like true disguise work. I don't know, man. Have you seen him in those aviators in Top Gun? I would. I would melt. If I ever said, I'm saying, you can't hide behind. I'm so used to seeing him in sunglasses. It's like, I'd be like, oh, thanks Tom Cruise. Well, that my package saying he's not cheating, then that's true.

52:50 That's true that. All right, I'll take my elf this week, the falsehood and I will say, I wrote I always write my falsehoods before I look up any of the facts because sometimes I get you know, it's too easy to get. Muddled into what the all the facts are. So, I wrote this falsehood and then I looked up the facts and I saw that it was initially set in New York City, however, it was just straight up. Michael Mann. Just said, no, I think it should be set in LA and that was it. So the, the falsehood was the fact that the rewrite was because of 9/11, I hate the, you do this to me, you gave me half of a truth. Try not to bait me into UPS.

53:35 Tom Cruise, but I didn't know that it was half a truth that grab it doesn't help at all. All right man, I think so. We've actually like done a pretty good job, covering what I wanted to cover here today. Like, we've talked about Michael Mann, we've talked about the performances, I don't know. I think I'd really like to kind of close out today by hearing what you think of Michael Mann so far and what you're on the lookout for moving forward. You know, I honestly think that with this film Michael man, showed me that he has a talent for driving action, and he has a talent for creating compelling characters. I think that's the main thing that made this movie work, is that I really believed in the character of Vincent and the character of Max and the way they interacted with one another was fascinating, you know, the The moments where they were quiet in the cab talking about life, where Vincent is challenging Max to grow as a person and he's meeting his mother and like in the middle of where Max should be the most vulnerable.

54:48 You know, this assassin is talking to his mother Max decides. I'm going to be a hero. I'm going to steal his briefcase and toss it out onto the highway and, and like, it's moments like that where you see development in Max as a character that I'm like, Oh I'm in with Michael Mann. I think he's really brilliant. It's other moments where the action scenes just get drawn out a little bit too long and Mark Ruffalo is searching through this apartment for his informant for just a little bit too long and we're I just I don't know if his pacing is always that great. So I don't know. I is that a fair assessment of him based on one movie I've ever seen?

55:30 Yeah, I mean, you know, the thing with me and Michael Mann is I just I think that he tries to do. Like we talked about Paul Schrader in Raging Bull and taxi driver and how he's known for this sort of like God's lonely, man like a, a usually like poor or disaffected or disenfranchised man who is reflecting on his place in the world and the chaos of it. And I think that man does that with these sort of like upper-crust Dapper like, you know, Oils a lot. Yeah and he so he tries to have one foot in Paul Shaffer and he tries to have another foot in like Paul Schrader. Alright.

56:14 Sorry. And Paul Schrader and then he tries to have another foot in the sort of like clinical almost surgical Precision of a filmmaker like David Fincher. And like if you think about how David Fincher like shoots a movie, like The Social Network or you know, even zodiac to some extent. Like I see a lot of that in man. But I don't know if he does either of those as well as some of some other filmmakers that are working out there. And I look at a movie, like, I don't know, sicario, you know, if we're going to talk make it a double like, I don't know if I'd pair this up with sicario, but just for the sake of argument, like, to talk about Denis Villeneuve, and how he looks at the nature of crime, and how it affects society, and how it affects the individual and, like, the meditation on America meddling in other countries and things like that.

57:04 Like, sicario has so much to say, and I know that this movie is the kind of movie that's more focused on the individual. But I just can't help but think like, you know, in a world without Michael man. Would we still have Denis Villeneuve? I don't know, maybe, maybe not, but I kind of prefer to leave whole new. So like, I don't know. Brad, what would you make this a double with? I honestly think that the it's a movie we've reviewed on this podcast. I think that this movie feels just a it was made in the same. Mara and be. It's a similar dish mechanics of the movie like what's going on in the plot. I think I'm going to pair this with crash.

57:46 You know, what's really funny about that? I thought about that opening monologue, that Don Cheadle has in Crash, where he talks about, like, people in the city are so disconnected and we crash into each other, so we can feel something and how we just absolutely stunned that movie script when we did it. And Michael Mann does the same thing. And again, I will say, Michael man did not write this script. It's one of the few movies that he did not write for himself, but the themes are so obvious in this movie and that's, that's my big. Struggle is Like. Oh, Vincent has salt-and-pepper hair and a gray suit and then he says about himself. I'm indifferent. Yeah. It's like do you get it because he operates in Shades of Gray and then there's a moment where two wolves walk across downtown LA and it's like, wow, did you know that there's two wolves inside of you all along? It's like I just the themes are so out front that it's hard to take it as like this deep reflection on anything and I so I'm with you man.

58:45 They crash is a great pick because it is similarly on the nose about the themes. It's trying to convey. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that the difference between you and me here is that I like the way man. Portrays it here way. Way more than I didn't crash. Sure. I think I think that there's a II. Don't think it's quite as on the nose as you are portraying it to be. I think that there's actually some Nuance to the characters and why they act the ways they do. So I and I'm not totally disagreeing like yes, some of the themes are obvious but not in such a way that it's a tracks from the characters interactions with one another. And I think that's what really drives me about this movie is the ways that Max and Vincent challenge one another throughout the film.

59:34 Alright let's give this movie some final scores. I'm going Anna give it, this is hard because I want to give it. On IMDb, it's at a 7.5. And I think that's like a perfect gift for this. I think that like, it's a really well-made 7.5 but I just don't know if I think it's an 8 out of 10 so I'm gonna, I'm gonna go seven and a half. Yeah. I think that this is one of those movies that I might give a 7.5 to in my, in my heart. But I'm Deedee doesn't let you do that. So I would give it an 8 out of 10 instead, you know what I mean? Sure. And so I think I am going to give this an eight 10. I think it's a really fascinating little action movie.

1:00:14 We didn't even talk about the Jazz scene in the middle of the film. Oh yeah. Which I think is incredible. I think Cruz and fox and what's the name of the actor who plays the owner of the club? I don't know his name but he's the guy that plays the cop in the terminal and I was really happy to see him hero and then you're right. And then also you've got the guy like the the guy that's like the FBI agent. Is the guy that played Bill O'Banion in. Yeah, it was above Town Bruce McGill. He sure is mr. McGill back on the back on the docket area. Anyway, yeah that scene is fantastic dude. Oh it's so so good and and once again Jamie asked him like even if you'd answered right where you going to let him go and they both know the answer to that question and they allow the silence to carry them into the next scene. Yeah.

1:01:04 So I think that this movie has a little more going for it than then you're given it credit for Bob. But I'm with you I'll give it an 8 out of 10. All right, so we are at a seven point seven, five out of ten but we'd like to know what you think. Let us know what you think of Michael Mann. Let us know what you think of collateral. You can find us on our social media accounts, Facebook Twitter, Instagram at film whiskey or you could jump onto our Discord. We are on there every single day talking to you guys, the fans of the film and whiskey podcast. So if you want to join our Discord and join the conversation, you can find a link to it at the end of every single, one of our Our show notes, like I said before, we'll be back next week continuing Michael Mann with what is widely regarded as his Masterpiece, 1995 heat.

1:01:50 But until then I'm Bob book, I'm Reggie and we'll see you next time.