Catch Me If You Can / Bulleit Rye

0:00 In 2002 director, Steven Spielberg and star Leonardo DiCaprio gave the world. An adventurous romp through the life of a young con man. In 2019, the Diageo company gives us a 95%. Rhyme Ash Bill, the film is Catch Me. If You Can, the whiskey is Bulleit rye and we'll review them both. This is the film and whiskey podcast.

0:41 Welcome to the film and whiskey podcast. Where each week, we review a classic movie and a glass of whiskey. I'm Bob book. You sure are. That's right. And you don't matter. I'm Bob book I'm Reggie and this week we are looking at the 2002 film Catch Me. If You Can welcome to Miami, Mutual Bank. How am I? Help you. I'd like to cash this check here and then I'd like to take you out for a steak dinner. Are you realize pyro tram? Little lady? The county seat is open. It's been a while since I've done this. Which one is the jump seat again?

1:23 This is irrefutable evidence that the defendant is lying. Special agent. Hen ready, FBI, hello. Carl. You're gonna get caught. It's like Vegas, The House Always Wins. Bob this movie is so good. It's so good. Like episode alert episode over. Yeah, we're doing movies phenomenal, go watch it. One of the things that I really appreciate about our podcasts is that we have gone back to some movies from really famous directors. And I think the closest, you know, corollary to this one or whatever you want to call it, is The Aviator. Like, we talked about The Aviator and we said, this is Martin scorsese's. Unsung modern Masterpiece, that no one talks about and Catch Me. If You Can, is the same thing with Steve, And Spielberg like we look back on Saving Private Ryan and ET and Schindler's List and Raiders of the Lost Ark and jaws and we never talk about Catch Me If You Can but it never heard of any of those movies. Bob I know, right?

2:18 It is a nearly perfect movie. It's so good. When I look at the list of movies that Spielberg has made, I mean, he Nails not only technical Brilliance, but Mass popularity. Yeah. The only real analogy for that, that you have would be somebody like the Beatles. We're like, when you look at the Those music, they're technically brilliant but they also were the most famous band of all time during their era and so when you look at Spielberg and you find a movie like Catch Me If You Can I like I'm going to preview everything that I'm going to talk about. I think this might be Spielberg's best movie. Wow, and I genuinely mean that from the bottom of my heart. Now I will say, I've only seen Saving Private Ryan once and it's been a long time since I saw it. So I need to watch that again to reassess the claim that I just made.

3:07 Are you saying the you think this movie is better than Schindler's List and better than jaws and better than Raiders of the Lost Ark and better than Jurassic Park? So I have seen all those movies except for Jaws. Okay, I haven't seen John will watch it at some point so yeah, I do want to see jaws Schindler's List is probably a better movie. I'm probably just really excited because I just saw catch me if you this is an exciting movie. I mean, but I would put this up there with Schindler's List and that might sound like a bad thing. Because Schindler's List deals with such a deep and Serious subject. Yeah, and I don't want to take away from the fact that the Holocaust is a much deeper subject than a con man in the 60, right, right.

3:47 Like, please don't take me in the wrong way. I understand the difference of the two subject matters, but as far as just looking at it as a movie and the cinematography, the musical Choice all that, Catch Me. If You Can, I would say is up there with Schindler's List. Well Brad, we're going to give you plenty of time to flush out your argument here. But before we get into that, it sounds Like, you've seen this movie before this viewing. I have. Okay, so this is this is a re-watch for probably the third or fourth time I've seen. Okay, okay. And I think that's probably similar to most people. I mean, after this movie came out, it made a bunch of money, but then it was on, like, TNT all the time for sure. It sits in syndication at this point. So we've all seen this movie. Brad. Can you walk us through the plot of this movie with our favorite segments?

4:29 Brad explains. Yeah. So, so the movie is about Leonardo DiCaprio. As a young con artist, who I was taught the idea of dreaming from his father who's played by Christopher Walken. And I think to really understand this movie, you really have to understand Christopher Walken's role as his father, but the synopsis of the movie is that Frank Abagnale jr. Leonardo DiCaprio is a young dreamer, who experiences divorce, who experiences, you know, losing the nice, perfect Suburban life that his family had and the entire movie is all about him, trying to recapture the glory of his childhood.

5:12 And so you watch him and he becomes a con artist at the age of like 16 or 17, he becomes quote-unquote and airline pilot for Pan, Am around the age of 19 or 20, he becomes a pediatric doctor at a hospital in Georgia, he becomes a lawyer at the age of, you know, 20 or 21. He does all of these things but in the end, all of it is about capturing the glory of his childhood. And trying to bring his parents back together. Absolutely. And I think Brad, you've already just opened up our analysis of the movie because, you know, if you were just going to give a synopsis or a plot outline in the movie, It's guy becomes con man, FBI agent chases him, right? But you're already getting to, I think what a lot of the underlying motivations of this character are and I really was impressed with the way that Spielberg would not let us out of this movie, without understanding, the reason that DiCaprio's character, Frank Abagnale was doing all this.

6:05 And it's honestly, it's that he is Trying to get back to the place that he was before. His parents got a divorce. What causes him to run away from home at 16, is his parents are getting a divorce after he essentially catches his mom cheating on his dad and they're asking him to decide who he wants to live with and he runs off. And and this whole film is him essentially running away from his problems and trying to recapture a state where he can be in control of his life again. And I'm super excited to get into this with you. But I think maybe we should take a step back from our analysis and let's Through this cast list because, you know, I turn this movie on a couple nights ago. I was watching with my wife and I just kept saying, oh, I forgot, he was in this, I forgot she was in this, you know, Spielberg as the Director that he is.

6:48 And with the budget that he had, he had the ability to build the Dreamcast and that's kind of what this movie is. I mean, you've got DiCaprio and Hanks at the top but then you've got Christopher Walken, you've got Amy Adams, you've got Jennifer Garner, you've got Martin Sheen. As in this movie plays, it is it bad that there's a part of me that's like I feel like Jennifer Garner has. Like fallen off, oh, for sure. And she does like commercials now, so when I saw her in this, I was like, what is Jennifer Garner doing in this all-star cast? Yeah, but I mean, at the time she was doing the show Alias, she was like, at the top of her game, right? And for sure. So let's walk through the movie a little bit and I think maybe the best way to go through. This is just to kind of go through the movie as it unfolds, because Spielberg has constructed this movie in such a tight kind of efficient way that every twist and turn the movie takes, is just this breath of fresh air.

7:36 So, What I want to talk about, first of all, is the old school throwback title sequence, the animated title sequence. And what Spielberg was doing here is he's giving a no Maj in a nod to this great celebrated title sequence, designer named Saul bass. He didn't host of Hitchcock's movies, if you've ever seen North, by Northwest or psycho. If you've seen the old Jimmy Stewart movie Anatomy of a Murder, like they all have the Saul bass titles and this movie is a throwback to that and I they're probably 45 minutes long. They take forever to get Through. But it was a freaking Delight to watch these. Yeah, and I think one of the beautiful things about that is that Spielberg from the very start from the title card to the opening sequence that you just talked about, he captures the essence of the 60s, which is, you know, the era and way of Frank Abagnale jr.

8:24 Operated, and he captures that essence of, like, I think there's a sense of like, in our modern day. Like, oh, yeah, James Bond. They were really cheesy movies back in the day and like, Daniel Craig. Made them cool because they're realistic But like back in the 60s, I don't care how cheesy those movies were, Sean Connery is James Bond was literally the coolest human being on the planet. Absolutely. And you see that, you see, things like that captured throughout the movie, where Spielberg captures, the essence of what it meant to be at the at the height of the 60s. Yeah. And and Frank, you know, Leonardo DiCaprio tries to capture that he wants to be the coolest of the cool in the 60s. Yeah. Well in the movie starts in like 62 or 63 and and what I love about what Spielberg does in this movie is it kind of reminds me of the show Mad Men in a little bit in a way because, you know, in the early 60s, you still have the Styles, the haircuts of the late 50s. They're still listening to Nat King Cole and you know embraceable you and he's older standard songs and then as the movie progresses into the mid-60s in the late 60s, you see Styles change.

9:28 You see people start to grow their hair out a little bit and sideburns come into play and this movie is so period-specific. But they just nail the Your ID at every single point in the movie The costuming, the hairstyles are just impeccable. I think one of the perfect scenes that Nails how weird the 60s were was the scene when he's sitting with Brenda Amy Adams and their parents and they're watching the like variety show and they're singing the Irish song. Yeah man, like Kelly or whatever it is Kelo. Why you see how the 60s was this generation that still? Dated their Heritage like nowadays? Like people might be like yeah, sure. I'm Irish but they're not going to sing along with a variety show.

10:13 Yeah. And be. And like, you just see the joy in their eyes of. Not only am I American, but I'm Irish, right? And that and I think that captures the period of the 60s where they're still holding on to what the 30s and 40s and 50s were all about. And yet you see a transition to a brand new world. Absolutely. None of them would ever expect her understand. Yeah, when Frank runs away and starts living in California. There's this great cut to a new scene. Where they cut to that song, You Really Got Me, girl, you really got me now and it's a scene of all these people sunbathing. And you just see this, this burgeoning new environment, in Southern California, where DiCaprio is living that you wouldn't have seen a New York? No, not at all.

10:53 Yeah. The the movie captures the essence of the 60s perfectly in which the only other form of media I've seen do it is Mad Men. Yeah, definitely I think that was a Mad Men. Even has a title sequence that is a throwback to You know, you see the Jon Hamm character falling in silhouette. It's a throwback in an homage to vertigo. Yes, which was designed by Saul bass. That's exactly what it was. Yeah. So the title sequence ends. In the first thing we see is a clip that Spielberg has recreated from the old game show to tell the truth. That was so good. It's a great framing device and you get a little bit of an understanding of who, Frank Abagnale is just by what the narrator of the show is saying, which is, you know, I faked being a pilot and I faked being a doctor.

11:36 And then I faked Lawyer and of course, we as the audience know, DiCaprio is Frank Abagnale and these other two guys aren't. But what I really loved was that DiCaprio kind of gives one little bit of information where he says the guy that caught me his name was Carl, Hanratty and that's Tom Hanks, his character and then there's an immediate cut away from this movie within a movie. This TV show, it feels so produced. The TV show to the realism of the French prison that Hanratty had is coming from the u.s. to basically extradite DiCaprio Back to the u.s. to face charges, you cut from this glamorous portrayal of what his life was, like, where he's talking about it on TV to seeing the depths that he had sunk to, and Spielberg takes you from the high, right to the low and drops you in at this point of the movie, and I think it really starts the movie off with a jolt. Also, I love how Tom Hanks is speaking like with an accent but not super-heavy and he's like, yeah. You know, my name is girly, ready? Well, first of all, I feel like we might Disagree because I think Tom Hanks is doing like the most ridiculous. Boston accent.

12:41 I've ever heard. He sounds like no actual person from Boston but he sounds like Tom Hanks does sound like Tom Hanks. I do not have an accent Carl, Hanratty how and ready. The French guys are going on. All righty, all righty and ready. So let's talk about Hanks for a minute, right? We're going to talk about DiCaprio, because he's in every scene, in the movie, essentially, who was DiCaprio, right? I didn't catch him, they played a minor role, okay? But I want to About Tom Hanks on this watch through. I was really surprised by how little Tom Hanks is kind of in the movie. So one of the big things with Tom Hanks that I would say might it might be a valid criticism. One of the problems with Tom Hanks is that anytime you see him in a movie?

13:24 You see Tom Hanks. Yeah like I couldn't tell you half of his characters actual names. Like what was his name and Cast Away? Oh God I don't yeah I can't remember right? He was Tom Hanks right this One of the few movies where I watching the movie, I forgot that he was Tom. Hey, that's so funny because I feel like this is one of the few where I couldn't forget that you really, and I think it's because, you know, on the cover of the movie, it's like DiCaprio and Hanks, you know, looking at it. Now, 17 years later DiCaprio was a big star obviously, but now I look back at it and I'm like, wow, that was one of the great star pairings in history. But the movie, the advertising, the posters set it up like we're going to be cutting back and forth between DiCaprio and Hanks all the time, but you didn't see Hanks as much. In the MU not at all.

14:07 I think. I mean it's probably like a 75/25 split and I think because Tom Hanks only pops up in certain moments you go you go oh there's Tom Hanks you know it's like this reassuring like oh my my warm and happy, Uncle comes back into the picture and I think because of that I was always aware that I was watching Tom. Hanks. See, that's interesting. I I felt between the accent at being a little bit over ridiculous. But I really enjoyed Tom, Hanks in this movie because I didn't feel like I was Just watching Tom Hanks and and that's a terrible sit at statement to say because just watching Tom Hanks is always a pleasure and he's a literally, one of the best actors of all time, of course. But I really enjoyed this movie because I felt like I was watching Carl Hanratty and not necessarily just Tom Haines.

14:54 Yeah. So let's get into the other side of the equation then and talk about DiCaprio because we can't go very far without talking about him. This is so DiCaprio made Titanic. Obviously he had been in Romeo and Juliet in 96, he did Titanic in 97. He was like the teen heartthrob. He made a couple bad career choices and this dis year 2002 was his big comeback. He made Catch Me If You Can, and scorsese's Gangs of New York in the same year. And all of a sudden people were like, oh not only is he talented not only has he already been nominated for an oscar but this is going to be one of the big stars of the next couple decades and they were right. They were right. But it's really funny even just watching a two-year difference between this movie and The Aviator. He seemed so much younger. And I think part of that, you have to credit to his Formats, that he played a sixteen-year-old, so convincingly and he only ages from probably 16 to what 25 in this movie, but the range of emotions that he plays the way. He's so successful, he plays and emotionally developing teenager. It's a great performance.

15:54 I would say. It's absolutely one of his best performances all time. You look at the way he transforms as a character the way he grows up. I think that one of the scenes that people might not think about as much when they think about this movie. For me, was one of the emotional payoffs of the movie was when he goes, and he sees his mom in the house and he meets his little half-sister and then he, when he goes back to Carl and he says get me in the car. Yeah, get me away from here, that moment, just rips your heart out. I want to come back to that because that's my key scene for the movie. That's always been my favorite scene in the movie and honestly, I'll touch on it just for a second here. But from a technical standpoint Spielberg's use of Nat King Cole.

16:36 The Christmas song in that scene is one of the best uses of an existing popular song in a movie, I have ever ever seen because it's so undercuts, the spirit of that song which is like warm family relations and he's doing it by putting DiCaprio on the outside of the house. He's always on the outside looking in. If you've watched the whole movie, he's always watching. Other people have happy relationships. And there's almost this sense when he asks a little girl like, oh, where's your mommy? Yeah, and she points at and if You notice the camera swings around to reveal and it puts you in DiCaprio shoes in this place where he's disoriented and knocked back by the Revelation, that his mom has had a kid with the guy that she was cheating on his dad with.

17:21 Yeah. And and that moment makes you realize what DiCaprio realizes that's not my mom anymore. Yeah. That's this little girls. Yeah. Yeah. And that's why he what he stumbles away and just and he willingly. Goes to the cop car and and has to flee. The scene through any means necessary. It is a beautiful scene of cinematography. Yeah. Absolutely. All right. So we're kind of jumping all over the place now but I want to walk us back towards the start of the movie and one of the First characters were introduced to is Christopher Walken as Frank Abagnale senior. And I have to say, if I'm giving out an MVP trophy for this movie, I'm giving it to Christopher Walken because what we know of Christopher Walken is the parity of, you know, Everyone does the walk-in voice, it's like doing the William Shatner voice and we saw Christopher Walken. Do this in Pulp Fiction just a few weeks ago. He was so quiet.

18:14 And he just reveled in the silences and what Spielberg allows him to do in this movie is to underplay, which is not something walking does a lot and he is, in my opinion, he's the best performance in the whole movie and I think a lot of people agreed because Christopher Walken was nominated for best supporting actor for this movie. And I think that was the only nomination the movie guy got to. It was Best supporting actor and then John Williams. Got nominated for the score. Did not win. Neither one of them one we're gonna do. I've just decided we're going to do a top 5 episode on Top 5, John Williams close. Gosh, that's gonna be the hardest one ever because John Williams literally is one of my favorite movie involved person ever he.

18:55 I love John. Yes. Yeah. But back to Christopher Walken. I mean, what did you think of his performance? Are you in the same boat? I am with, with appreciating him in this movie? 100% when you look at the emotional, Impetus of this movie. If you don't have Christopher Walken in that role, you have no reason for Frank Abagnale, jr. To do anything like, and the the moment that it hits you is when Leonardo is at the New Rochelle Rotary Club, lifetime membership award, and it's given to his father. This is the very start of the very start of the movie. And he tells that wonderful story about, you know, there was too much ice and they're in a bucket, right? And then, you know, the one turns Her and escapes. And I am that Mouse who turned the butter. When you see a Leonardo DiCaprio Sprint up out of his chair and just start avidly just yeah, beating his hands together to clap for his father.

19:48 You realize this kid idolizes his father but then the more you get to know walk in the more you realize he's just a sleazebag. That's a dreamer and even some sleazebag. It seems like he loses his business. It seems like he got into some sort of a shady dealing with the IRS and they never let up on him and DiCaprio watches. His dad, lose his dream and I think that's that's the thing and walk and plays that so. Well as like this, this guy who's being broken down by the outside world but where DiCaprio gets his ability to be a con man is because he sees his dad put on a happy face all the time. See, I took it. Not that he was being beaten down by the outside world but that he was a sleazebag who conned his way into everything he got. That was more of the, the thing, because every time he talks about the IRS, it sounds like that person, like honestly, man, I feel like I'm going in the opposite direction of you. The writing came off more like, how Hilary Swank's family was written in Million Dollar Baby really of? Well it's not my fault.

20:56 The government is putting me down and like this other lawyer, you know, it wasn't my fault. He screwed me over and now the government screw me over to me, he played this like mine. Mindset of like, oh well I didn't do anything wrong, the government did me wrong and my lawyer did me wrong to me. I didn't enjoy that as much. That's so interesting. I never saw that way. And the key scene for me with walk-ins performance is right after DiCaprio become successful. As a pilot, he goes to a really fancy restaurant with his dad. You really get a picture of who his dad is as a character. Because the first thing he says, is this Fork is ice cold and DiCaprio has to teach him. This is a chilled salad, fork wear to a fancy restaurant and walk in. Throughout that scene, you finally see the cracks in his facade and you understand that he's projecting all of his hopes and dreams on to his kid.

21:45 And he starts to ask DiCaprio like where are you going tonight? Where you fly in tonight? And it's not because he really cares, it's because he knows DiCaprio's able to escape. He asked DiCaprio to look around and he says, all these people are staring at you right now and DiCaprio looks and he's like that. There's no one looking at me but for Walkin. It's constructing this story of like my son. Has all of New York standing still to look at him. And at the very, very end of the scene, DiCaprio asks him about his mom and they're estranged because, you know, they've gotten a divorce and she was cheating on him, but he always wants to win her back and it's the one time that walk and finally doesn't have an excuse or a reason or something that he can hope for hang his hat on and he starts crying.

22:30 I can speak a little French six weeks later. She was my son bought me a Cadillac today. I think that calls for a toast. You're the best damn pilot in the sky. It's not what you think. I'm the co-pilot. See these people standing. He's the most powerful people in New York City, they keep peeking, over their shoulders, wondering, where you're going tonight? Where you going?

23:16 Frank had nobody's staring at me someplace exotic. Just tell me where you're going place. An Hollywood Hollywood. Rest of us really are suckers. And that moment at just as an actor, Christopher Walken just nails that scene but I think that's why I always saw his dad as a more sympathetic character than a sleazebag. That's really interesting to me because for me that exact scene is why I think of him as a sleazebag.

24:01 That's wow. Because he, because he's not willing to face reality. And he continually creates narratives that are not true and not only does he create them, he believes them. Hmm. He believes his own. It is about reality that are completely false and for me that is more of a sign of being pitiful and sad. Yeah, more than being somebody who is just misunderstood or the more, I think about it. And the thing is, I don't want to take away. I would agree with you. That I think Christopher Walken might have the best performance. Yeah. But I think his I read his character a lot differently than you. That's so funny. And yet we come out to the same place on it. Brad there's so much more we have to talk about. We haven't even gotten through all of our performances yet.

24:42 We haven't really. Otten into the meat of the movie in our analysis of it, but I think that's going to be better for the back end of our episode. So why don't we stop at this point? Let's try some of this Bullet Ride. What do you say? Let's get into it. All right, so, today we're trying Bulleit Rye. Now, bullet is a really interesting company. They've become very famous for their bourbon bul, EIT. So they have become really famous because they make really good bourbon, but for such a long time, what they were doing was, they were sourcing their bourbon meaning, they were buying all of the alcohol basically pre-made. And then just aging it in Kentucky and it isn't until just recently that they finally develop the means to stop sourcing their Bourbon.

25:24 And so people are really concerned that when their bourbon comes to maturity, it might taste He different from what we've come to know as bullet, but they not only make bourbon, they may cry and today we are trying their rye whiskey. Now Brad, you purchased this bottle of Bulleit Rye, I sure did. How much did you pay for it? I paid about twenty three twenty four dollars for it, I think. Yeah and the state of Ohio this is listed at 2399. So this is a really affordable Rye. Yeah, for a fifth of any whiskey. When you look at the twenty to twenty five dollar range, that that's an affordable and usually you're going to get decent quality whiskey, you. You seem to not really care for Rye that much and I am hit or miss on it as well. I like it, when rise are a little more mellow, the mash bill on this bad boy, is 95% R. I5 % barley that it fun fact.

26:12 95% of anything in a whiskey is a lot. And when you smell this, you get those. I don't know what the word is. It spicy herbal. It's spicy but it's almost a sour smell you get from rye as a grain. Yeah. For sure. Ever smelled, rye bread, you know what I'm talking about but this has no Born in it, so there's nothing to sweeten, it nothing to really mellow it except that little bit of barley. What are you picking up on the nose Brad? Yeah. On the nose of this, I feel like I'm getting that right. It's very obvious. It's very wry forward. But I feel like there is a little bit of sweetness on the nose. Yeah, there's there's definitely something going on here that's melted a bit. It does smell like just a big loaf of rye bread but maybe one that's been cut with something.

26:54 There's almost a fruitiness to it or something sweet, like a honey. Yeah. Yeah, I think you're hitting on something with the honey. They're like, the more I smell. This, the more I feel like there's a jar of like fresh honey, sitting next to my glass of whiskey. Yeah, for sure. It doesn't have those dark notes. It's very bright. It almost reminds me of like an Irish whiskey in the sort of brighter notes. I'm getting that has a freshness to it. Definitely, so if you had to give it a score, what would you give it on the nose? I'm gonna give it a seven on the nose. Okay. It has a nice pleasant knows that has the spice of the ride, but not that burn or the bitterness. Yeah, I think I'm right there with you. Thew. I don't again Rye is not my favorite kind of whiskey, but I don't think I should punish this for that fact. Right?

27:35 It's it's pretty Pleasant smelling for a ride but you also know what you're getting into that it is a right? Yeah. And I think it's not false advertising. That's mr. Good thing. All right, let's take a step. Yeah, I think everything that we smelt on the nose is coming forth on the taste. I mean, you have the ride, it's forward. You know, it's there. But I'm tasting, honey, the more and more. I think about it. I'm not tasting honey. I am tasting sweetness. It seems fruitier to me. It almost. It's like a peach or a, or maybe something more tropical, but there's something that reminds me of a fruit note, but you really get the ride for me on the back, end on the finish on the Swallow.

28:16 It really comes out as like a more sour pronounced grainy flavor. So the sweetness isn't present all the way through for me. Yeah, I don't know. I kind of disagree for me. It really does. Hold on to that honey flavor. And for me that helps mellow out the bitterness of the Rye. I'm getting a lot of really interesting like baking spices on the taste almost like a clovey taste to it as well. It's not just rise spice, it has these really nice kind of more subtle gentle baking spices to it. Yeah. I think I'm going to go ahead and give it another seven. Okay, I'm really enjoying the flavor. It's not the best thing I've ever had, because I don't care for Rye but right, but if I'm gonna drink awry, I like this a lot. I'm gonna give it a six and a half on the taste. And part of that is because you know, full disclosure like I just am not a huge fan of Rye but this is complex enough. It's different enough, it's interesting enough that even as a guy that's not a huge fan of Rye, I can appreciate where this one is coming from.

29:11 So it gets a six and a half for me. What you think about the finished bread? What I love about the Finish. Sean, this is that the rise slowly dissipates as it moves down your throat. Hmm. And it doesn't sit on you the way a lot of other rides do. And that's my big struggle with Rye, is that when you're done drinking it, you just have that ride flavor on your mouth forever and you don't get that with this and I really like that. It doesn't have a long-lasting finish. It does have a more of a bitter finish to me that classic Rye. Flavor is there on the finish? It doesn't leave a sweet finish in my mouth but the Finish is also gone. Than 10 seconds. So as a guy that is not really interested in bitter long unsweet finishes, I like that I'd but I think I'm just going to go ahead and give it a six on the Finish. Really, I'm actually going to give it an eight on the finish. I really enjoy the way it finishes parsley for the fact that it's not what I've experienced with other Rise. Sure.

30:05 Sure. All right, overall balance we're talking knows taste and finish Brad. What would you come out to seven and a half? I mean, it's a solid. It moves evenly from from Phase 2 phase. It's a good good whiskey. I think I'm gonna give an eight on the balance and that's because it does exactly what it sets out to do. You know, from the nose from the time you first, smell it. What this is going to be like and it absolutely delivers on that. It doesn't have a super long lasting complex finish but otherwise this is really solid all across the board if you like rice oh IMA give it an eight. Yeah and so when we're moving into our final category of value, I think for me I can and I'll preview I'm sure we'll drink. It bourbon at some point I'll preview my take on that to say that it's a good bourbon but I can get other Bourbons for a similar price that I might like a little more or similar quality.

30:56 I don't know if I've had many rise for this price that I like as much as this. I'm going to give it a 10 out of 10 on value. Wow. A 10. I don't know if I've ever had arrived for twenty-two. Twenty-three twenty-four dollars that? I like as much as this one, listen, if you're into ride, this is a really, really good one. You know, I I tend to like my rise a little bit more milder than this but that's because I don't like rice. Oh I scored the 80 proof old Overholt pretty highly because of that. But if you're into this kind of thing this is a fantastic value at 2399. I'm going to go ahead and give it an 8 out of 10 and that's partially just my preference, but I think Brad is Right. You'd be hard-pressed to find one at this price point. And especially, this is a 90 proof whiskey, and a lot of times when you get down to the 22, 23, Our price range, you find a lot of, you know, bottom of the barrel. Yep.

31:49 Pun intended. You know. 80-proof Whiskey's. This is a 90 proof. It has some punch to it. It has some nice feel, it's a really good value. Definitely, so I'm coming out to a 35 and a half, which would put me at a 71 out of 100 Brad. What are you coming out to 39 and a half? 39, and a half. Brad really enjoyed this. So that's putting us at a 37 and a half or a 75 out of 100, which I would say. Yeah. Is right where this whiskey? Sure I would say top quarter that's a really good place to be Brad. Would you recommend 100%? I would too again, you know a lot of whiskey. Is you drink, what? You like? I'm a bourbon guy. I will always be a bourbon guy, but if I was going to recommend a ride, is somebody, this is right up there with the best we've had.

32:34 It's in the price range. It's high-quality and shout out to producer. Eric, who has been on previous episodes? This is his favorite rye whiskey and I can see why. So we both recommend that has In Bulleit rye bread. What do you say? We get back into talking about, Catch Me If You Can let's do it. Alright, so that was Bulleit Rye? We both recommended. Yeah, highly impressed. Yeah, and I think it really lines up with this movie because I don't want to forecast too much here, but it sounds like we're both going to recommend this one to know. Don't watch this movie, but we have a lot to discuss here. Still, we haven't even talked about all of the actors yet. We haven't talked about the story in our favorite scenes and the analysis of it. So, really briefly Brad, is there any other actor in this movie that you think deserves to be called out whether for good or for bad?

33:23 I'm really intrigued and not necessarily Ali, why she was in the movie, but like, why her scene was in the movie? Okay. What's up with Jennifer Garner and the hooker scene? Yeah. Jennifer Garner comes into this movie. For a hot second and is gone again and she plays a really high-priced call girl. It seems like, who was apparently a model at some point, but she's a hooker and what we know of our protagonist at this movie is that he's like 17 may be right. And Spielberg gives us this really prolonged scene where she's seducing him or at least negotiating with M about what price that he's going to pay for a night with her. And in my like, in my opinion, it was the most unnecessary scene in the whole movie.

34:05 And this was at the point where they actually were really cutting back a lot between him and Carl. Hanratty, Tom Hanks, has character and Tom Hanks is sitting in a laundromat like getting his laundry done and getting his shirts, dyed pink. And then you cut back to DiCaprio with this high-priced, call girl. And I understand that they were trying to play this Dynamic of, he's living the Glamorous Life, Tom Hanks is Isn't but it really kind of weirded me out that we needed this extended scene of him, you know, talking his way into having sex with a hooker. So I will say, I'm going to say two things, first off, I don't think that she was a high-priced call girl. I think that she was a famous model who in that moment was like, saw an opportunity? Yes.

34:48 Okay, that's how it played off to me, more of, and that's not to say that, you know, obviously by offering herself for money. She made herself a call girl for that. 8. But that put aside, I think the big contrasting point wasn't necessarily Carl Hanratty and Frank Abagnale jr. I think it was the two women that they were with, in the sense that Frank Abagnale jr. Is with is with his gorgeous model and Carl Hanratty is with this old lady who died his shirts, pink. Right. Accidentally putting a red shirt in his thing, right? And so I think the reason this scene was in the movie was to highlight the differences in the two Two main characters lives, but was it necessary? I actually disagree with the reason why it's in the movie. I think the reason why it's in the movies at the very end of the scene where they've gone through this whole negotiation, and then DiCaprio says, I'll write you a check for 1400 and then she says, well, I'll just give you 400 in cash back. And the point of the scene is he's such a good con man that he even conned, the girl, who was trying to con him into giving her money is actually a really funny punch line. Because he came out of that situation giving her a check that's going to bounce and he came out of it for hundred dollars richer in cash.

36:03 And so it's really, I do think it's a funny scene ultimately, but it takes about 10 minutes of the movie and it, in my opinion, it just grinds the movie to a halt. I don't know that we needed it. We know Frank's a good con man without that scene being in it. Yeah. And my my struggle that with a scene wasn't necessarily that it's slowed the movie down. It's that you moved from Frank being an innocent person. Who sure he I might have slept with some stewardesses on the airlines, but, like, paying for sex takes you into a whole new territory of sleaziness, that you lose an innocence to his character in that scene, that I don't know if you needed to do because that's the only scene in which he really isn't innocent. Yeah.

36:46 And so I'm like, did you really need to do that? Because the rest of the movie, he goes back to being, this innocent young kid, who's pretending to be an adult. But asks, for milk, when he's asked, what he wants to drink. You know, I mean, yeah, and I think we're in agreement, that, that point of the movie, doesn't really need to be in it. I do want to quickly touch on Amy Adams as his wife, eventually poor Brenda poor Brent. Well, not why they do get married because they're at the wedding reception when the FBI busts in and tries to at the engagement party, that's an engagement. Okay, so they don't get married, that's good but I think Amy Adams, first of all, is a National Treasure. I, she is such a good actress. Absolutely.

37:26 I love Amy Adams. And in this movie she does the like the little girl innocent thing really well, but then you find out more about her character that she got an abortion that she's kind of an outcast from her family. And she's not given a ton to work with like she's there for comedic effect for the most part, dude, if there's a moment in this movie that I would cry during its when she tells him that a, I'm not a virgin. Yeah. But be, I had an abortion and then she like curls up in his arms and shame and basically says like to you, Like will you still love me despite my faults that was the most unexpected scene in the entire movie that I all of a sudden had like tears in my eyes of this poor girl who's been thrown out by her parents, who has been rejected by the culture because of her abortion and she just wants to be loved and cared for well.

38:19 I also think that scene in some ways, I don't think this is a perfect movie. Like it's a really good movie. But I think that Spielberg And if you watch this film, he's moving the camera all the time. Like, this movie, technically is brilliant, but I think sometimes, I feel like this movie kind of keeps you at arm's length a little bit because of the tone it sets. And because of what Spielberg is doing behind the camera, I think he could use a few more of those moments where he lingers on people having a motion because he doesn't do it a lot. He cuts to the next scene and it doesn't let the emotional impact kind of resonate, but I also think that for me, when I was watching that scene any Adams kind of confessed This to him and He does care about her but then he says like, you know, what would you think if I married you essentially but what if you were my wife and I think the way that that that shot is framed I think the way you focus on DiCaprio in that moment, what they're trying to say or what it comes across as is he's thinking a couple steps of head of how he can keep conning people. Not that he doesn't love Brenda not that, he doesn't want to marry her, but he's using it as an opportunity. And I think the fact that they use characters that way in this movie to keep the con going, it doesn't let any real. Emotion creep in it for the most part. But I think that's the beautiful thing about the movie is that the, the essence of the movie is, am I going to create a con for my life of a fake reality?

39:39 Or will I, you know, lean in to what's real in my life and when you lean into a con Ally, you can't experience. Emotional depth. Yeah. And you see that? Yeah, in Leonardo DiCaprio's character throughout the entire movie. One of the things I really appreciated about the movie is that That, that segment of the movies, I guess, what I would call the middle third, and usually, in a movie, the middle third is what sags and what really drags. And I think that in this movie, they really leaned heavily into the comedy elements in that second part. And it kept things moving DiCaprio has some great comic timing when he goes over to Amy Adams, parents house for dinner. And you get the great moment where he says Grace where he just retells, the story about the mice, churning, the butter but then he also says, I'll just kind of off the cuff.

40:25 Oh, I used. I have I passed the bar I'm also a lawyer. Yeah. And then Amy Adams goes oh you're just full of surprises and DiCaprio just kind of goes. Yep, you realize it's just sunk in that. Now he has to pretend to be a lawyer and he just gave himself away that I really loved that. They kept things moving along in that second third. But I do think it came a little bit at the expense of Amy Adams character because they made her a little bit too one-dimensional, for sure. I think she had so much more to offer this film that. Was not fleshed out. They use her as somebody for Leonardo to bounce off of. Yep. That like I wish that she had been in the movie more because I loved her when she was in this movie, it did produce the best joke in the whole movie though when the FBI finally comes and finds him at the house at the engagement party, whatever the reception is that they're having and he pulls Amy Adams upstairs and he's talking to her.

41:20 And he opens up a suitcase that's full of money. And first of all, they do most of that in one shot and it's really, really cool how they do it here. Opens up the suitcase that's full of money and she starts to understand. This is not the guy I love and he says, you know, I'm not an airline pilot. I'm not a doctor. I'm not a Lutheran, I'm not a lawyer. I'm this is my name. This is what I do. This is all my money and her reaction is you're not a Lutheran like that's what she cared about the most. I laughed out loud at that moment. But the thing that I loved about that moment is because it's so true to real life. When your world is Spiraling around you, you grasp onto what the one thing that you know, and for her being a Lutheran is like one of the core things about her identity, we're talking about the Old South here, right? That if he's not a Lutheran that truly is the most important thing for her.

42:12 So that's what she asked. But it was such a good glimpse into her character too because she's, you know, even though she talks about having an abortion and all these things, she's still so innocent. Yes. And and her big hang-up is you mean you're not a Lutheran, I loved it. Oh, it's brilliant and like when you want to Talk about perfect writing to relieve tension in a highly tense moment. Yep go watch that scene. Absolutely, it's so good. So I want to get back to our favorite scene in the movie. And this is after DiCaprio, has been captured in France. He's been flown back to the US. He finds out on the plain, that his dad has died. And then he finds a way to actually Escape out of the plane. And the first place he runs is to his mom's new house with her new husband.

42:52 Before we get into that. Can I just say, I've read about his real life, he actually Escaped from a plane on the taxiway in real life. Yeah, this isn't, this is not made up is that this really happened like when Carl Hanratty is watching him run off the the airway tarmac? Yeah, the tarmac. Could you imagine that happening in real life? Like it's so like it's so incredulous I could never imagine that. And the first place that he goes as to his mom's new house with Jack Barnes his dad's old friend, what a jerk. Yeah, forget Jack Barnes but he runs up to the window and Spielberg has been set. Us up for this emotional payoff and if you pay attention, it's so brilliant because there's two points in the movie before this, where DiCaprio walks into a room and he sees a husband and wife just enjoying each other and and in love, and it's his dad and his mom slow dancing.

43:41 And then later it's Amy Adams parents dancing with each other and he's always framed as being on the outside looking in. And it really Clues you into DiCaprio's character, is that it's not that he's really looking for love in that way. It's that he's looking for a sense of family. And a sense of belonging because his family was ripped away from him and shattered. And now, in this moment, he's literally on the outside of the house, looking in the window, and it's like this. This scene is so emotionally shattering to me because you get the payoff of what they've been building towards you think he's going to finally get that for himself. And instead the married couple that he's looking in on, is this unnatural Union of his mom and the guy who stole his mom away from his dad and then you find out not only that but they've made a family without him and now they have a kid and he's not even part of a family anymore.

44:33 Can I tell you the one thing that detracts from that scene for me? Yeah, I don't have a file that girl was probably like 5 or 6 years old. I don't have a five or six year old, wouldn't she have screamed bloody murder when she saw him getting outside the window. It's very clear that did not happen in real life. Like so like that's my only struggle was that was so unrealistic to me partially, because, of how he looked, like, he looked An Ax Murderer, well, for sure. And it's sunken eyes and the time spent in the prison in France. Would you know? Very realistically. And the first question he asked, is like, where's your mommy? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, not. He's like super creepy. Yeah. Yeah, I will say that took that was probably one of the few scenes for me, where I was like what? Like this is not realistic.

45:14 There's no way this would have ever happened. Yeah. So I will say that was a struggle for me. But putting all that aside, the emotional weight of that scene that you just talked about cannot be denied it. Spielberg is a master of the emotional moment and he hits you so hard with Leo is outside of the family. He's not accepted. He has nowhere in this world. The other moment that resonates with that of him being on the outside looking in is when he calls Carl for the first time on Christmas. And at the end of the conversation, Carl goes, well, what the heck? Are you calling me for anyways? People only know what you tell him Carl.

45:54 Well then tell me this Barry Allen Secret Service, huh. How did you know I wouldn't look in your wallet Yankees, always win. Nobody can keep their eyes off the Pinstripes, the Yankees win because they have Mickey Mantle, no one ever that's something uniform You sure about that Carl? I'll tell you what, I am. Sure of You're going to get caught. One way or another. It's a mathematical fact that's it's like Vegas House. Always Wins. I'm sorry, but I have to go. You didn't call just to apologize. Did you more than you have?

46:41 No one else to call. There's a moderate night and here and then you see the light bulb over Tom Hanks, head. And he goes wait a second. You don't have anybody to call. You're a con man who has no family, no friends. It's Christmas. You want to be a family? So you called me. Yeah. And he just laughs his butt off and I think that's I hate that they Hank's that character beat where he's like he laughs at DiCaprio in that moment because you feel so much sympathy for DiCaprio that it actually took me out of enjoying Hanks in that movie because they make Hanratty kind of a jerk for a long period of this movie. Well, for me that was okay though because it was so early in the relationship, right?

47:33 You know, it later in the relationship, you see him care more deeply. So for me him being that uncaring at the start gave an arc to the point where he does care about. Right. And I think we're that really pays off as at the end of the movie, where DiCaprio is now working for the FBI and they give him the option basically to show up on Monday morning and DiCaprio decides to run away one last time and he puts on the pilots outfit. And he's walking, you know, Down The Concourse and Hanks is there and he's just walking after him slowly. And they're talking about, you know, if you do this, you're going to prison for 50 years and you're gonna die. DiCaprio's. Like, I don't care. Since she was 4 years old, you lying. She was fall when I left now. She's Teen. My wife's been remarried for 11 years, they see grace every now and again.

48:20 I don't understand. Sure. You do sometimes. It's easier. Living the LIE. You got to let you fly Tonight. Frank I'm going to try to stop you because I know you'll be back on Monday. Yeah. How do you know I'll come back? Look. Right. Nobody's chasing you. And when I watched this movie, as a younger viewer, I always thought that like, this is gonna be terrible analogy.

49:00 But like, you know, like with serial killers, how they always say, like, they want to get caught, they leave notes. They want someone to figure them out and put them behind bars. I always looked at Frank that way, like, he wanted. That's why he left his wallet with Tom Hanks, earlier in the movie. Like he wanted to be caught, but it's not really that like, Frank doesn't want to be caught. As much as he wants someone to chase him? Yes. And I think what this movie does so brilliantly is that it shows that Frank is really this kid who wants to feel like he's not alone. The interesting thing that that just sparked my brain is that his father continually portrays and dreams this idea of the chase that, you know, your mom was dancing and there's 200 men in that little Social Hall. Yeah.

49:47 And I said, I'm going to get her right and he did Right. And so he continued it. Portrays, that chase will who's chasing Frank? Who's wanting? He wants to have pursued and it's not, it's not in a romantic way necessarily it's in a way of emotional intimacy. And the point that he gets to with his dad is that his dad kind of sends him away as a way of like, get out of here. Like, go Live Your Dream. And Frank actually has his great scene with walking where he comes back and sees his dad in a bar. And he tells his dad to his face, tell me to stop. Tell me, tell me not to do it and then Christopher Walken tells him like, you're not going to stop. But that's not what Frank wants to hear, like Frank wants somebody to pursue him so he doesn't feel alone so that he can feel cared about. And even at the end of the movie, you understand, that he really is just a kid who's looking for intimacy.

50:33 And I think the message of this movie in a lot of ways is like the effect. That a divorce can have on a kid. Your kid will become a famous con man, but but I wasn't expecting that much of an emotional undercurrent In this movie because, you know, this came out the year after Ocean's, Eleven, heist movies, Khan movies were in big demand and for Spielberg and the screenwriters. This movie to weave that emotional Foundation, underneath everything that's happening. They didn't have to do that. This would be a fun movie, no matter what, but it really catapults it into another level that they add that layer of his character to it, the filmmaker Guillermo del Toro, who's one of the most famous directors working today from Mexico. He's actually a huge fan.

51:20 An of Catch Me If You Can and he has come out and said, Catch Me If You Can, is essentially a perfect movie. He's talked about Spielberg's Direction and how everything has a purpose. And I think right now, we're in an era where people are finally starting to look back on, Catch Me If You Can and talk about it, as maybe one of the better movies of Spielberg's whole catalog. And we've overlooked it because it's kind of this more lighthearted, you know, in general a light-hearted movie. But Brad, I'm really interested to hear you said, you might think this is Spielberg's. Best movie. Do you think first of all? All that people need to go back and re-evaluate this movie. And then, secondly, how would you score it out? Well, firstly, that's an obvious. Yes. Yeah. Like, you need to go watch this movie again and don't just watch it from a comedic sense of like, oh, let's just watch the Capers and mad Adventures, that Frank gets into, like, really watch it for the depth for the Deep moments where he looks at his father and says, you know, tell me to stop when he, when he's with Tom Hanks and he's begging Tom Hanks, To give him some sort of intimacy.

52:21 Watch it for those moments, what you just said about Guillermo del Toro, makes me feel better about this. I finish this movie thinking, 10/10, and I finish this episode thinking I'm giving it a 10 out of 10. It's awesome. And honestly I've given I think three or four movies, a 10 out of 10 so far. Yeah, I think this is my favorite of those movies. So I went through a really interesting Journey with this movie because I, you know, I saw it when it first came out, I was probably 12 or 13 when it came out and I loved it. I thought it was a really fun. V. And then over the years, I started hearing these kind of Rumblings from critics that this might actually be a great movie. I put it on our list because I was like, yeah, I think this might be a 10 out of 10 but I feel like I swung the pendulum so far in both directions that I came back to this movie and it kind of evened me out a little bit.

53:06 I do think it's a great movie. I do think it's one of Spielberg's best movies. I think it deserves critical attention and I think that people need to appreciate it more. But like I said, there are moments in this movie where Spielberg goes, so heavy in the technical side of things. Things that it keeps us at arm's length. And I think because of that I'm going to give it an eight and a half. I know Brad's already mad at me. But when you think about it, an eight and a half out of ten and you're talking about like if everyone on Earth thought this movie was an eight and a half would be one of the most well-regarded movies of all time. I think it has some flaws. I think they could have tighten it up a little bit. I think they could have cut some scenes Out and because of that, like it's automatically not attend for me. See, that's something I struggle with because I literally finished the movie, and I was like, other than the scene with Jennifer Garner. Yeah.

53:49 That like, that's Only seen for me that was drawn out and I'm okay with that scene being in there. You could have tighten it up. Yeah, other than that, I thought the action moved from scene to scene perfectly, right? I thought the cuts were sharp, the long pans were great. I, well, this is one of those those instances Brad were like, I love it when you help balance me out in our scores because if you had given this like a six, I would have been really mad if we came out to a seven point two, five or whatever. But the fact that you gave it a 10 means we're looking at a nine point two five and I love having our average there because this is a great movie and just because I might be under rating, it a little bit. Does it mean that this movie deserves to be brought down a peg because of it. But we want to know what our listeners think of this.

54:31 Am I right? Is Brad, right. Are we right on the money with our average? Is it a 9.25? I was going to say because of all the movies we've watched, we all we don't really have tons of variety in our scores. Honestly, from eight and a half to ten. That's a decently large variety. From what we normally come out to. Yeah, for sure. So we really want to hear from you, you. Find us on social media at Twitter, on Instagram on Facebook at film whiskey, with an e or also Brad. Where else can they find us? You can give us a call, we have a call on line, leave us voicemail, we will play it on the air. Our number is two one, six eight hundred five nine, two, three, once again, that number is two one six eight hundred five nine two three. And right before we go we just want to say first of all, we are still a new podcast.

55:14 We could really use some help with you guys. Getting the word out, if you're enjoying what we're doing, share it with your friends, share it with your family. Emily give people a podcast recommendation, but you could also always go over to iTunes. And apple podcasts, give us a five star review there because it really helps to boost our ratings. We're so grateful and so thankful that you guys continue to join us week in and week out for this series. Yeah, we've seen a boost over the last two to three months that has been so encouraging to us, because we love what we do here. We have so much fun, putting out this content for you that to see listeners. Grow to see you guys sharing it with your family and friends as Huge. So keep at it, build the film and whiskey Community. We love you guys, and want to keep bringing you the best content that we can next week. We're going to be back talking about the 1948 classic, the Humphrey Bogart classic Treasure of the Sierra, Madre for the film and whiskey podcast.

56:06 I'm Bob book, I'm Brett G. We'll see you next time. This is the film. And whiskey podcast, that might've been the most in sync we've ever been. I was literally just thinking that. All right, I could feel the harmonization of the voices, man, we're so good at this like, uh, like three times last episode. We were like, we're so good.

56:51 We're helping people. We're providing a public service, that should be the advocate for this one. Right. There was so good. This is the film. And whiskey podcast, that might've been the most in sync we've ever been. I was literally just thinking that. All right, I could feel the harmonization of the voices, man, we're so good at this like, uh, like three times last episode. We were like, we're so good. We're helping people. We're providing a public service, that should be the advocate for this one. Right. There was so good.