Casablanca (1942) / Elijah Craig Small Batch

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In 1942, director Michael Curtis
and star Humphrey Bogart gave

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the world a love story that was
never meant to be.

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In 2025, we try a whiskey that
continues to be great as time

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goes by.
The film is, as Ben Mankiewicz

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would say, Casablanca.
The whiskey is Elijah Craig's

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small batch.
And we'll review them both.

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This is the Film and Whiskey
podcast.

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Welcome to the Film and Whiskey
podcast, where each week we

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review a classic movie and a
glass of whiskey.

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I'm Bob Book.
I'm Brad G.

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And this week, it really is
Brad, the granddaddy of them

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all.
I mean, there's there's a very

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short list of movies that are
like, Oh my gosh, I can't

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believe we're actually talking
about this movie.

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I mean, it was Citizen Kane, The
Godfather, Gone with the Wind,

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and this, like, I just don't
think there's anything else even

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in that echelon.
I mean, when your lead actor's

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name is Humphrey Bow Daddy, I
like, yeah.

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What do you expect?
I mean, I mean a true daddy

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also, am I right?
I mean just talk about the man

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who who launched 1000 ships with
his swagger in this movie.

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So good dude, I thought.
You were going to comment on

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his?
That is a euphemism and I will

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not take it back.
Are you trying to say that

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Comfrey Bunker got around in
Hollywood?

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I mean, who's to say?
Who's to say, man, we're talking

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about Casablanca.
It is perhaps my favorite movie.

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It's darn close.
It's a movie that I've seen

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probably no exaggeration 50
times.

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And it is a movie that I have to
take larger and larger breaks

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from in between viewings now,
because I feel that like it is

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so familiar to me.
It's so ingrained and I, I know

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every line of this movie so much
that it's become like really

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hard to assess.
It's like when you get obsessed

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with an album and you play it to
death and then you have to take

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like a 567 year break from
listening to that album before

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you can come back to it and hear
anything new again.

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I'm, I'm kind of at that point
with Casablanca and Brad,

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unfortunately, I'm going to run
it right back into the ground

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again because I was bored on an
airplane about two months ago

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and I was like, I'll watch it
now.

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We're going to talk about it
soon enough.

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I didn't realize there was two
months in between.

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So I watched it two months ago.
I watched it today and then I

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just found out that they're
showing it at Regal Cinemas

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across the country tomorrow.
And your boy's an unlimited

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member, so I'm going to see it
again tomorrow.

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So why not man?
It makes sense to me, man.

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This is the kind of movie that
like seeing it three times in a

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week.
A It's not quite a 90 minute

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film, Bob, but it no, it's just
it's close.

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Just beyond a 90 minute film,
it's close.

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So you're not going to spend
like 9 hours like you did with

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Oppenheimer watching it 50
times.

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True.
And secondly, this is an all

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time classic dude.
It's so good, man.

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And, and Brad, I've my big worry
with an episode like this is

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that we just come in and say
things that people have said

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about this movie for what, 82
years now since it's been

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released and some change.
And I don't want that like it

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is.
It's one of the most highly

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regarded films of all time.
What is there to say about it?

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Question mark?
That's why we brought in a guest

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today.
It's our friend joining us, I

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think for the third time now,
Vince Mancini.

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Vince, how are you, man?
Good to see you again.

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I'm great, good to see you guys
too.

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I actually registered my website
on bodaddy.com, so I'm very

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excited to talk about this movie
means a lot to me.

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Bowdaddy is is much cheaper than
GoDaddy.

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It's Bulgarian GoDaddy, right?
Yeah.

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Sometimes I'm also with my
friend and my friends and I'm

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like, hey man, don't bowdaddy
that joint.

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Pass it around, you know?
This is why we bring Vince on

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off the cuff.
It is, but it is.

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It is weird like the term Bogart
like I didn't like.

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It's hard for me to make that
connection.

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I didn't immediately.
I still don't entirely

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understand where that came from,
but I guess.

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It's, I mean it has to be from
him, but like why is he

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associated with being stingy?
I don't, I don't get it.

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I don't either I, I, I guess
it's, I think I've looked this

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up or tried to figure out why
that is at some point.

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And I guess it's just that he's
kind of got that like

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domineering personality.
I guess that's the idea.

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ChatGPT knows.
Yeah, well, ChatGPT can make a

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guess, that's for sure.
All right, guys, I want to dive

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right in.
But I want to start with Vince,

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because like with all of our
guests, we send a list of the

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movies for the season out ahead
of time and say, pick a movie.

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And Vince, I mean, there's kind
of obvious reasons that somebody

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would want to talk about
Casablanca because it's just a

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freaking great movie.
But in particular, like, why

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this movie from the list that we
sent you?

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And hopefully it's not because
you secretly hate it and this is

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like a hot take fest for the
year.

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Not at all.
And it's like it's one of my

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favourites.
Unlike you have only seen it

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maybe like 2 to 4 times or
something like that.

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And being, you know, being a
film critic for as long as I

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have, people are always telling
you like or expecting you to

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have seen like every classic or
like, oh, you must really like

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Kurosawa or like Fellini or, you
know, pick your pick your movies

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on like the AFI top 100 that
they expect you to like worship

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all of them.
And like most of the time, like

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most of those movies on those
all time lists, like I don't

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really care that much about I've
seen Citizen Kane like multiple

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times.
It doesn't do that much for me,

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to be honest.
And then Casablanca is, I mean,

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it's, it's like I, I, it's, it's
fine.

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It's good.
I like, I, I get it, but it

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doesn't, it's, it's not, it
doesn't hold like a special

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place in my heart.
It doesn't like make me feel in

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the way that like a movie that I
love should make me feel.

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Casablanca.
I've only seen it a couple

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times, but like I had already
absorbed all of the things that

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have filtered out into pop
culture.

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And there's so many like, you
know, the the song, the here's

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looking at you kid, play it
again.

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Sam what she doesn't actually
say, but you know, we still get

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the idea.
Like those that all filtered

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down to me before I ever saw the
movie.

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And then I feel like I saw the
movie and it actually delivered

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in a way that I found super
surprising.

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And then I do the thing where
like I, I have a memory of how

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good it is in my mind.
And then, and then each time I

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rewatch it, I expect it to be
not as good as I remember.

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And every time it's like better
than I remember.

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I'm like, God damn, this movie
is just like, it's, it gets

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better somehow.
It's each time I think that I

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lied to myself the last time.
Like I realized like no, it's

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actually that good.
Dude, you know.

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Vince like popping in like a
Blu-ray and being like, let's

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test that theory right now.
Yeah.

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Also, before before Brad, I
don't mean to cut you off, but I

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love that Vince started by
saying this is not going to be a

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hot take fest and then within 30
seconds was like, Citizen Kane

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doesn't really do it for me,
man, you know?

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I mean, it's, I like it.
It's just like, you know, I to

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me, it's not like, OK, this is
the greatest movie of all time.

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I'm like, OK, sure, you know.
I I was just saying when it

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comes to Citizen Kane a it is
probably the greatest movie of

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all time and BI think the thing
we walked away from.

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But and Bob, you can correct me
if you're if I'm wrong.

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I feel like we walked away
saying we understand 100% why

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this is in the conversation,
whether or not we feel like it

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is I.
Citizen Kane, you mean?

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Yeah, I was Citizen Kane.
Sure.

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Yeah, No, I I would agree with
that.

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Like it's, you know, it's, it's
innovative and you can sort of

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see that like when you watch it.
Yeah, no the.

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For me, it's like, why?
Why the hell is this even in the

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conversation?
What are we doing?

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The movie for me that I was come
back to and I'm surprised by how

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much I love it and I always
expected to get worse is the 6th

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sentence.
Every single time I come back to

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that movie, I'm like, how is
this movie so freaking good?

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Perfect movie, yeah.
And and Brad, I think that this

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might be a good place to
transition into our first

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segment of the day, which we
call, Brad explains.

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Brad's going to give us the
movie plot with only 60 seconds

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sticking on the clock, so let's
go ahead and do your take with

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this little segment that we call
Brad explains.

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Brad Explains is the part of the
show where Brad breaks down the

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plot of the movie that he has
just seen, at least for the

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second time this season.
Brad the the $1,000,000

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question.
Have you watched Casablanca

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between season 1 and our revisit
today?

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I might have watched it with a
group of friends a few years

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ago.
I I feel like I feel like I

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forced them to watch.
I did.

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I made them watch Casablanca and
I made them watch It's Wonderful

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Life because they hadn't seen
it.

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Because Jordan is in is in dumb
dumb and doesn't like watching

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black and white films.
Yeah, cosign for sure, Jordan

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catching strays on the Film and
Whiskey podcast today.

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You know who you are, Jordan.
See, I've never seen It's a

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Wonderful Life.
This is exactly like a perfect

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point of comparison.
My gosh, dude, first of all, I

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thought you were going to say
I've never seen Jordan, but I

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agree with you guys, which I
think would have been the

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correct thing to say.
But Brad, I I've transitioned us

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into Brad explained so quickly
because of something that Vince

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was talking about, which is the
the pop culture bleed of this

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movie.
You know, over the years, it

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developed such a reputation as
perhaps the greatest script ever

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written.
And certainly I would say like

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in the top five most quotable
scripts ever written when you

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think about the way they've just
permeated culture.

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But it's one of those movies
where like, you've never seen it

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and then you sit down and watch
it and you're like, Oh my God, I

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found the Rosetta Stone.
You're like, like, there are so

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many references that I can
remember from my childhood

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growing up watching like
Animaniacs or whatever it might

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be that would make these sly
references to Casablanca.

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And as a kid, you're like, I get
that this is referencing

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something and now I, I've logged
here's looking at you kid in the

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back of my head.
But like, once you see it on the

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screen, it's like, I, I can't
think of many movies besides

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maybe The Godfather that have
had such a widespread cultural

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impact that it affects media
globally that they're

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referencing it in movies on, you
know, on other continents that

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they're referencing it in like
children's animation.

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And I'm wondering.
If we have like anti anti piracy

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ads with Casablanca, yeah, that
was my first exposure to

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Casablanca was those anti piracy
ads.

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I've I forgot about that?
I, like, I was trying to

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remember all the things that
they've used the musical cue

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for, and I honestly can't.
Like, was that the TCM, like

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bumper music for a while?
Like I know, yeah.

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I remember when I was like,
right before I saw it, I was a

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teenager and I recognized like,
these are images from

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Casablanca.
There was a commercial for Diet

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Coke where they were drinking a
can of diet.

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And first of all, they don't
sell cans of Diet Coke in the

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movie theater, but they're in a
movie theater cracking open a

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Diet Coke mid movie.
And it's when Ingrid Bergman is

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is like, you wonder why there is
no other man in my life.

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And then that the music swells
and they sip the Diet Coke and

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I'm like, wow, what?
That movie looks amazing.

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Then you see the movie and that
scene ends with her being like

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00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:51,080
there was and he's dead.
It's like, oh now I know why

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00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:53,960
they cut right before that the
the close of that line.

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00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,240
Also, you watched it and you
were like, why is there no Diet

225
00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,920
Coke in this movie?
Yeah, exactly.

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00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:05,600
It it feels like one of those
albums where you're like, wow,

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00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:07,680
this had all of these hit
singles on it.

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00:12:07,680 --> 00:12:10,840
It's like there's so many,
there's so many different

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00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:14,800
moments that have become pop
culture staples in it, and you

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00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:18,160
think it's just one, but then
you realize it's like 5 or 10

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00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:22,240
different things.
Is this movie The Abbey Road of

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00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:23,640
American cinema?
That's what.

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00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:25,560
That's the question before us
today, Brad.

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00:12:26,240 --> 00:12:28,560
And I bring all this up because
I want to know.

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00:12:28,560 --> 00:12:32,560
Like when you first sat down and
watched Casablanca, did you have

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00:12:32,560 --> 00:12:37,440
that moment of like, oh, OK,
like I recognize now where all

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00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,360
these references came from?
Or because you lived the

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00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,480
sheltered childhood among the
two of us, Was that still still

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00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,600
lost on you?
I, I would say it was mostly

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00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:48,880
lost on me.
I, I don't think there was

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00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:51,880
anything in Casablanca that I
was like, oh, that's where it's

242
00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:55,080
from.
There's been a few movies like

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00:12:55,080 --> 00:13:02,400
that throughout the podcast.
I mean, heck, This is Spinal Tap

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00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,440
is one of them where you're
like, oh, yeah, this is the

245
00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:09,400
entire, any docu mockumentary of
the 2000s.

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00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:12,240
It all came from here.
So there, there's been a few

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00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:14,440
movies that did that.
I think.

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00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:18,960
I didn't need all that, Bob.
It's just a great movie, right.

249
00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:21,240
Yeah.
Like I didn't, I didn't need to

250
00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:23,800
have any of those references to
be like, oh, this is where it

251
00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:26,400
came from.
I I just got to watch it and see

252
00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:27,960
where all of those things came
from.

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00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,640
I guess when I compare it to
other movies that are on that

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00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:35,000
list, like there's other movies
that you watch, you know, like

255
00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,320
Birth of a Nation, Like I watch
it and I'm like, OK, I can see

256
00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:43,280
why this is innovative and it is
like an important landmark in

257
00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:46,640
film history, but it doesn't
necessarily do anything for me

258
00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:50,320
like emotionally, whereas.
This one, Vince.

259
00:13:50,680 --> 00:13:53,280
Yeah, yeah, in that case, defer
for obvious reasons.

260
00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:57,360
It's a very good thing.
Yeah, in that case.

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00:13:57,360 --> 00:14:01,000
But you know, I like, you know,
extrapolating from that example,

262
00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,920
like there's other movies that
you can recognize are

263
00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,360
groundbreaking in their own way,
but they're not necessarily like

264
00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:09,320
they don't hit you on an
emotional level.

265
00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:13,000
And I feel like Casablanca is
the ultimate counter example to

266
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:14,440
that.
Cause every scene that I

267
00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:18,560
remember being like, oh man,
this was such a huge emotional

268
00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:20,440
moment.
And then I wonder like, oh, was

269
00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:22,160
I just in a weird place when I
saw that?

270
00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:25,360
And it's like you said, like
it's other people have noted all

271
00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:29,600
of those moments before you.
And even even with that, like

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00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:36,120
going up against that like level
of, you know, like that bar,

273
00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:38,640
even at that bar, like they
still hit every time somehow.

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00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:42,840
I don't know, it's crazy to me.
Well Brad, now that the bar has

275
00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,240
been set for you, you have 60
seconds on the clock to break

276
00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:50,560
down the plot of this movie.
Filled with spoilers on this 83

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00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:52,680
year old film.
So folks, if you have not gotten

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00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,360
around to Casablanca yet, now's
probably the time.

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00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:58,280
Let's let's hit pause.
Let's go watch Casablanca.

280
00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:00,840
I do recommend, think it's a
pretty good movie, Brad.

281
00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:04,680
It's it's decent.
And then come back and join us,

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00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:09,800
Brad, one minute and go.
Casablanca is a film that

283
00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:14,640
follows Rick Blaine as the owner
of Rick's Cafe in the titular

284
00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:18,240
city of Casablanca.
It is set up as a crossroads of

285
00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:22,400
sorts where multiple different
characters are kind of meeting

286
00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:26,640
in this launching point where
many people are trying to escape

287
00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:30,360
Nazi Germany to get to Lisbon,
which will eventually take them

288
00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:34,560
to America.
Things really kick off when Rick

289
00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:38,680
is given letters of transport
that will allow anybody to leave

290
00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:42,480
the city.
His former lover, Elsa Faust,

291
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:46,480
returns to the city with her
husband, Victor Laszlo.

292
00:15:46,480 --> 00:15:46,920
Hold on.
I got.

293
00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:47,800
I got hit.
Pause.

294
00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:50,600
I got it.
Elsa Faust is Mission

295
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,280
Impossible, I think.
That's true.

296
00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:55,480
Ilsa Lund.
That's a good thing, Ilsa.

297
00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:56,600
Lund Faust.
It's.

298
00:15:57,400 --> 00:15:59,600
Always German.
It would be pretty dope if Ilsa

299
00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,120
was also an assassin.
I'm not gonna lie, that might

300
00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,040
actually improve this movie.
It's like the Marvel what's

301
00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,400
what's the gal that Captain
America falls in love with

302
00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:08,840
Peggy?
Oh yeah.

303
00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:11,800
Yeah, Also a secret agent.
Also a secret agent.

304
00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:15,520
Elsa Lund.
Is it Lund?

305
00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,000
Lund.
All right, Elsa Lund comes to

306
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,320
Casablanca with her husband,
Victor Laszlo, who is a

307
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:26,040
important resistance leader.
There is a love triangle between

308
00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,360
the three of them as Rick
determines if he's going to help

309
00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:32,520
them escape or try to escape
with his former lover.

310
00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,800
Boom, I don't.
I'm sorry for derailing, Brad

311
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,640
explains.
But that's I feel like now the

312
00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:44,560
worst part of this is that my
love for Ingrid Birdman from

313
00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:46,680
this movie has forever been way
up here.

314
00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,360
And I think I may have just
unlocked like the only thing

315
00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,600
that I would have enjoyed better
about Casablanca is if it was

316
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:58,720
actually Rebecca Ferguson as
Elsa Lund in this movie or as

317
00:16:58,720 --> 00:16:59,960
Elsa Faust in this movie.
They.

318
00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,800
Both have some lice grams, you
know, and that's what's that's

319
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:03,360
what's.
Important.

320
00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:05,839
Sure do.
I feel like the like The funny

321
00:17:05,839 --> 00:17:09,760
thing about Casablanca is like
at least growing up not having

322
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,000
it, not having seen it when I
was a kid or not having it being

323
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,800
part of my like cultural
repertoire.

324
00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:19,960
Like it's sort of filtered down
to me as like one of these like

325
00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,240
romantic movies.
You know, it was like, oh, Gone

326
00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:26,319
with the Wind and Casablanca and
whatever other like insert

327
00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:29,320
famously romantic movie here.
And then you watch it and you're

328
00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:31,160
like, this is not romantic at
all.

329
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:33,480
It's kind of like a bromance
movie if anything.

330
00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:37,040
Like it's about 3 dudes that are
kind of like figure out how to

331
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:42,880
just like put their put their
bromance above their petty

332
00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:45,720
jealousies.
Put their bromance above the

333
00:17:45,720 --> 00:17:47,440
Nazis.
That's what we're all called to

334
00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:48,600
do, I think.
Right.

335
00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:54,320
So, yeah, I was before Nazis.
That's that's how the the phrase

336
00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:54,800
goes.
Yeah.

337
00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,640
I think as I look back on this
movie, I'm with you, Vince, in

338
00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:02,160
that like, it's always regarded
as the greatest romance movie of

339
00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,200
all time.
And it certainly is when you

340
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:07,360
think about the sacrifices
involved of the characters.

341
00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:10,200
But it's much more of an
intrigue movie.

342
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:12,760
It's much more of a political
movie than I remembered it

343
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,440
being.
And I think, guys, if we can

344
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,200
start, just kick things off with
the performances here because

345
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,040
they are obviously all iconic
performances.

346
00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:23,360
I want to start at the top with
Humphrey Bogart.

347
00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:26,080
Brad, we've done quite a few
Bogart films on the podcast.

348
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,880
This by far is his most famous
performance, I think for good

349
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:31,520
reason.
You know, the image of him in

350
00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:34,440
that white dinner jacket is
like, like, it's film

351
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,080
iconography at this point.
Like, it is it.

352
00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:39,360
You could just cut the
silhouette out of it and you're

353
00:18:39,360 --> 00:18:41,160
like, Oh yeah, that's Bogart in
Casablanca.

354
00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:47,320
I think what I forgot about this
movie isn't just that Rick is

355
00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:51,520
such a anti hero.
He's a really early example of

356
00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:54,360
what you would come to be known
in in 50s literature as the anti

357
00:18:54,360 --> 00:18:59,360
hero, but that he's just
legitimately like a huge asshole

358
00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:02,520
to everyone for most of the
movie.

359
00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,520
To the point where like still 10
minutes from the end of the

360
00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:08,360
movie, you're like, Oh my God,
this guy's gonna sell out some

361
00:19:08,360 --> 00:19:10,880
guy to get sent to a
concentration camp.

362
00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:14,640
Like there's, there's no
redeeming qualities to Rick.

363
00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:18,680
Yeah, to to be clear, get some
tail and get back to New York

364
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:22,560
'cause he misses it there.
Like, this guy is a Dick.

365
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:24,920
And, and I just didn't remember
it.

366
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,720
I remember him being like a hard
shelled soft candy, you know, a

367
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,280
hard candy shell soft interior
kind of guy.

368
00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:35,480
No, not at all.
Like he is just the worst for

369
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:38,960
most of this movie and I don't
know why I remembered it

370
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,840
differently, but Brad, I'd love
to hear your opinions on Rick

371
00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:45,080
Blaine the character.
You mean your first 49 times you

372
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:47,040
got it wrong and this time
around hold?

373
00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:51,360
On.
See, I honestly, I don't take

374
00:19:51,360 --> 00:19:54,640
him that way at all.
I take him as extraordinarily

375
00:19:54,640 --> 00:20:00,960
bitter and angry at his life
that he had his one love and he

376
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,000
didn't trust his gut to go get
her in in Paris.

377
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:06,560
He trusted her to come meet him
at the station.

378
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:08,840
And he's been regretting it ever
since.

379
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:12,000
And like, the only thing keeping
him alive is Sam.

380
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:16,200
So I to me, it didn't come off
as just like, he's a giant D

381
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:19,000
It's more of just like, yeah,
he's super wounded and.

382
00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,600
Can't handle his emotions 'cause
he was born in like 1890

383
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,200
something so.
And the fact that he's

384
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:28,640
surrounded by like people that
might be trying to kill him at

385
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:29,360
all times.
Totally.

386
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:34,400
I've, you know, like he's he's a
former guy who's run arms to The

387
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:39,160
Ethiopians and has fought for
the Republic in Spain.

388
00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:43,280
And now he's like surrounded by
Nazis and French Nazi

389
00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:47,320
collaborators.
So, but like, yes, it's funny

390
00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:51,760
because it's like he is that
ultimate example of like every

391
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:56,400
50s and you know, every 50s
antihero where he's just like

392
00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:01,600
outwardly a Dick and he only
speaks in like cryptic riddles.

393
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:07,040
Like he's he's refuses to to be
honest to a fault.

394
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,280
Like he can't even like, tell
you what the weather is that

395
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:12,360
day.
I I mean the, the line about

396
00:21:12,360 --> 00:21:15,560
like, how did you get here?
And he said I came to Casablanca

397
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:18,320
for the waters.
Quad Rings is like for my help.

398
00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:20,800
We're in the desert.
He's like, I was misinformed and

399
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:22,520
that's it.
He doesn't say anything else.

400
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:26,360
Great.
Classic, like 30s, you know,

401
00:21:26,360 --> 00:21:30,640
pitter patter dialogue.
But like, he really makes it

402
00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,320
work.
There's a quote from one of the

403
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:35,920
brothers that wrote the
screenplay that it has more corn

404
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,080
than in the states of Kansas and
Iowa combined.

405
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:40,360
But when corn works, there's
nothing better.

406
00:21:40,360 --> 00:21:42,440
And like, that really does sum
up the movie.

407
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:45,440
Like, it is very corny.
All these things were either

408
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,560
tropes at the time or have
become tropes.

409
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,400
You know, Humphrey Bogart's
character probably most of all.

410
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:55,800
But like when he delivers a
monologue, like it hits every

411
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,280
damn time.
I feel like that needs to be the

412
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:03,840
the tagline for Mellow Corn.
When corn works, there's nothing

413
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:07,440
better.
One of our favorite whiskeys,

414
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,640
Brad.
Yeah.

415
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:11,440
I'd love to hear a little bit
more about what you guys think

416
00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,200
of the performance.
Like obviously with some of

417
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,840
these older stars, and I think
Bogart's among them, like when

418
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:19,800
you're watching a Humphrey
Bogart movie, you're getting a

419
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,320
Humphrey Bogart performance.
Same thing with like James

420
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,560
Cagney.
Like you're not expecting too

421
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,200
much outside the wheelhouse of a
typical James Cagney.

422
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:29,920
I would say Brad, for us, the
one that we've watched of

423
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,400
Bogart, that was kind of the
biggest departure was The

424
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:35,760
Treasure of the Sierra Madre,
which I think he's probably

425
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:39,720
better in than in this.
But I, I think he or he has to

426
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:44,680
kind of modulate his tone, his
rhythm, his emotions in a much

427
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,120
smaller register.
Because obviously of the

428
00:22:47,120 --> 00:22:50,680
character repressing and
suppressing all of his actual

429
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:52,440
guilt and shame and everything
else.

430
00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:57,040
And when to Vince's point, when
you see him in the darkened

431
00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,160
saloon on that first night doing
the, you know, of all the gin

432
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,960
joints monologue, I it's some of
the best acting of his career.

433
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:08,320
It's so good, man.
Yeah, he plays dark and brooding

434
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:12,720
so incredibly well.
And the the first time that Elsa

435
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:17,600
comes back to see him in at
night and he just rips into her

436
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:24,120
and basically calls her a whore.
Like Also, this movie has a lot

437
00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:29,080
of stuff you do not expect out
of a 1942 film.

438
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,480
Like, Claude Raines is sleeping
with underage women.

439
00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:39,000
He flat out calls Elsa a whore.
And there's like three or four

440
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,920
other moments that I was, like,
blown away by the content that

441
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:45,280
they're putting into this movie
in the 40s.

442
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,960
Yeah.
I think that one of the reasons

443
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:55,480
Bogart works so well is because
he is kind of a a boulder in the

444
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,640
film that everybody else is
trying to chip away at and

445
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,480
figure out who he is.
And you can see him emotionally

446
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,680
on his face just like keeping
everybody out until the few

447
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:10,520
moments of the film where he
lets people in, which is when he

448
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,920
calls Elsa whore.
He he lets her in and tells her

449
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,560
what he's really thinking at the
end of the film when he says one

450
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:20,120
of the best closing lines of all
time to Claude Raines.

451
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,680
Like there's, there's a few
moments throughout the film

452
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,080
where he actually lets himself
be seen.

453
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:30,440
And it it that transition from
like, you're not getting

454
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,600
anything out of me to like,
here's what I really think.

455
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:38,400
Bogart just nails it.
Yeah, I think it was the

456
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,560
director of Killing Them Softly
was talking about Brad Pitt and

457
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:46,640
how like he kind of only can
play this like iconic, like

458
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,720
larger than life type character
because he just has that quality

459
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:52,640
to him.
Like he, he doesn't play like a

460
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:55,800
regular average Joe very well, I
think.

461
00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:59,120
Yeah, Humphrey Bogart has that
same thing.

462
00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:02,080
And it works.
His persona works in this movie

463
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:06,800
because like, he is always, his
staginess works 'cause he's sort

464
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,680
of always doing a performance in
his status as like the biggest,

465
00:25:10,880 --> 00:25:15,440
you know, bar owner in this town
that's like filled with intrigue

466
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,320
and, and spies and people trying
to kill each other.

467
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:22,080
So it's like he's given a
performance, but he's also

468
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,280
playing a guy who's giving a
performance.

469
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,280
And then, yeah.
And then you sort of live for

470
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:32,600
those moments where he drops the
facade a little bit and becomes

471
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,880
like a wounded little boy or,
or, you know, this earnest,

472
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,520
earnest, romantic type person.
I want to talk about Ingrid

473
00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:44,480
Bergman, but in order to kind of
intro that, I kind of have to

474
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,800
talk a little bit about the the
structure of the movie itself.

475
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:52,520
Because they don't actually
start that flashback to Paris

476
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,240
until about the 45 minute mark
of the movie.

477
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,400
And everything before that
happens in one night in one

478
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,880
location, which there are very
few movies that can sustain that

479
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,760
much of their movie unless
they're, you know, like a based

480
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:08,720
on a stage play that happens in
one location.

481
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,280
But, you know, it reminds me a
lot, Brad, of The Godfather,

482
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,080
like that opening wedding
sequence where you spend the

483
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,840
first like 40 minutes there with
Don Corleone.

484
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,640
Like, I forgot how much of the
setup of the characters.

485
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,000
You know, the inciting incident
with the letters of transit, the

486
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:28,760
intrigue, you know, the the
politics between parties at the

487
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,720
cafe leading into of all the gin
joints.

488
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,720
And then finally, like the
flashback where you finally

489
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,160
understand, like, what the hell
is going on with this character?

490
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,840
It's a solid 45 minutes.
And I think it's really

491
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,600
masterfully set up, not just by
the script, but also by the

492
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,920
director, Michael Curtis, that
when Ingrid Bergman walks

493
00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:50,680
through the door at like the 30
minute mark of the movie, you're

494
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,640
like, oh, who's this?
And, and you're not even

495
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:55,800
thinking about the fact that
like, oh, now the movie's

496
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,680
starting because it never seemed
like they were bidding their

497
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:01,200
time.
She just comes in.

498
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,400
But you've had tons and tons of
plot get set up before then and

499
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,720
never got bored with it.
I don't think we even see Rick's

500
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,440
house, right?
Like we don't see where he like,

501
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,520
lives at any point, no.
I does he just live above the

502
00:27:14,520 --> 00:27:17,280
bar like where he where he has
her that one night?

503
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,320
I don't remember.
I think so, yeah, I guess, yeah,

504
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:20,840
I guess that counts.
Yeah, that's true.

505
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:22,800
But I think, yeah, I think that,
yeah.

506
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,800
I was going to say the opening
of the film is incredible

507
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,800
because it's a it's like a
little bit ham handed, but they

508
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,920
just set up.
Rick is a guy that doesn't stick

509
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,200
his neck out for anybody.
There are there is a French

510
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:41,640
underground resistance in town.
There's another cafe owner that

511
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,480
like if you want to do get down
and dirty, you can go to him.

512
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:49,880
But Rick plays by his own rules
and they set all of that up in a

513
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:54,400
way that like feels a little bit
obvious, but it's compelling,

514
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:57,760
interesting movie telling where
you also get to see the

515
00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:03,800
brutality of the the Reich and
the the French that are friendly

516
00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:08,080
to the Third Reich.
Like you get so much jam packed

517
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:13,880
into that that when you hit Elsa
walking in, it feels like almost

518
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,320
like a mic drop.
Like like, oh, we already had

519
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:21,440
all this happening and now this
stunning, gorgeous woman walks

520
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,800
in and she was in love with
Rick.

521
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:28,040
Like, it's just a great like
flow into what the movie is

522
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,160
actually about.
It kind of works the way good

523
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,480
pulp tends to work.
Like there's that opening scene

524
00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:37,040
with the pickpocket and like the
most of the openings in this are

525
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:41,080
like a little clunky and like a
little stagey.

526
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,960
And like that ends up working
really well because it it comes

527
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:50,360
on clunky and stagey at the
moment when you're most willing

528
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:55,480
to suspend disbelief.
And so you're like, OK, let's

529
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,720
see where this is going.
And then it's sort of like it,

530
00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:02,600
it gradually it lowers your
defenses for all of the like

531
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,000
corn that works so well because
like it's gets, it gets

532
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,360
gradually, it reveals layers of
realism.

533
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,080
Like once you've already like
suspended it, it's not doing it

534
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,040
the opposite way where you know,
you're expecting a grounded

535
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:16,640
reality.
And then suddenly it starts

536
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,840
hitting you with like the, the,
the, the stagy stuff.

537
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:25,480
It's, you know, it, it, it lulls
you into like a, it lulls you

538
00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:27,520
into accepting everything that
it's doing.

539
00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:32,320
Can I just say while, while
we're here at the start, the the

540
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:37,840
the pickpocket who like goes to
Rick and he's as he's getting

541
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,320
arrested, he's like rank, help
me rank.

542
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:45,280
Yeah.
Every time I see Ugarte, all I

543
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,640
can think about is Robin
Williams in Aladdin when he's

544
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,840
talking to Aladdin about the
rules he got and he goes, I

545
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:54,240
can't bring you back from the
dead.

546
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:57,280
Is that is that the connection?
Yeah, so that's again.

547
00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,720
So the actor's name is Peter
Lorre, who became very famous

548
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,640
for his look and his sound.
He was a German actor.

549
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:05,760
One day we'll get around to
watching.

550
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,040
He made a a film in Germany with
Fritz Lang called M that is like

551
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,400
just one of the best movies of
all time, Brad, and he's the

552
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:13,120
star.
Of it, I've even heard of it.

553
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:17,120
All right, there you go.
We, you've heard of the letter M

554
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:19,160
We're, we're, we're well on our
way, Brad.

555
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:23,200
That first season of Sesame
Street paid off handsomely.

556
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:25,440
So yeah.
Then he comes over to America.

557
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,120
He does a lot of character work.
He had worked with Bogart the

558
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:33,360
year before this in the Maltese
Falcon and he's in tons of like

559
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,280
Looney Tunes cartoons.
They do Peter Laurie characters.

560
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:38,600
It comes up in Aladdin.
So yes, there you go.

561
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:42,000
Same, same guy I love.
A bug eyed little freak.

562
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:43,320
I'm like a big.
Man.

563
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,440
Yeah.
Yeah, if you're remaking this

564
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:50,240
movie, like this is clearly the
Steve Buscemi performance,

565
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:51,080
right?
Like, I don't think there's

566
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:52,720
anybody else you can really slot
in here.

567
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,360
Oh, I could do like a Barry
Kogan if you're.

568
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,800
Going modern Modern.
I'm OK with that.

569
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:00,800
I mean, if we're talking bug
eyed freaks like he's

570
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:02,960
definitely.
Are are you throwing Brad Pitt

571
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:06,360
in for Humphrey?
No.

572
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,200
I don't think he's that.
I don't think he's quite the

573
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:12,800
actor that Humphrey is.
Oh, I've got a hot take.

574
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:16,520
Did you see the new Wes Anderson
movie, Brad?

575
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,600
I have not.
The Phoenician scheme.

576
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,720
I like Vince, I liked it a lot.
But I watched that movie and I

577
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,920
was like, I think Benicio could
pull off the Humphrey Bogart.

578
00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,400
Character.
He's got the look and the like.

579
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:36,560
He stoicism to him, you know,
he's I think that's the only guy

580
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:39,200
I would recommend from from like
today's crop of actors.

581
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:40,200
I don't know who else could do
it.

582
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,960
Well, Humphrey Bogart looks like
he lives hard, which is like a

583
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,200
rare quality among modern
actors.

584
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,880
For sure.
Speaking of bug eyed freaks,

585
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:53,960
guys, let's get back to Ingrid
Bergman, am I right?

586
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,160
So I want to talk a little bit
about Ingrid Bergman.

587
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,480
And I think that I, I wanted to
do that set up because they do

588
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:03,320
such a good job of burying the
lead with her character because

589
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,440
like, she comes in and as she
comes in, the rest, you know,

590
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:10,080
the Cafe, you're only familiar
with her character as the wife

591
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:12,000
of the guy they've been talking
about this whole time.

592
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:13,960
Like they've been building up
Victor Laszlo.

593
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,840
And you're like, oh, Ingrid
Bergman, maybe Humphrey Bogart

594
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,440
will try to like, you know,
swoop in on the side 'cause he

595
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:22,800
seems like a devious guy.
You have no idea that they're

596
00:32:22,800 --> 00:32:24,720
going to have this back story
that they share.

597
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,120
And then she mentioned Sam and
then she starts talking to Sam

598
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:30,960
and then you're like, Oh yeah,
there's something going on here.

599
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:35,480
And I just love the way that as
an audience member, you're left

600
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,560
completely in the dark way up
until that that first flashback.

601
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:41,960
And there's only a few times,
Brad, that we've experienced

602
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:43,720
that with films we've watched
for the podcast.

603
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,680
I think the Matrix is a good
example where I think in the

604
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:50,160
Matrix I talked about like at
that 45 minute mark, you're

605
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:53,040
almost getting frustrated with
like, I need answers like this

606
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,080
is getting I I need to know
what's going on.

607
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:58,160
And then they finally reveal
like the plot of, you know,

608
00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:02,640
what's going on in the Matrix.
It's kind of similar here, but

609
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:06,560
in order to get there, you have
to go from not knowing who

610
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:11,120
Ingrid Bergman is to having the
entire like onus of this past

611
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:14,360
relationships emotional weight
put on her.

612
00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:19,080
And the way they accomplished
that is as Dooley Wilson starts

613
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:23,680
singing as time goes by, Michael
Curtis is like, let's leave the

614
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,120
camera on her face in an
unbroken shot for like the first

615
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:30,080
2 verses of this song for like a
solid minute.

616
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:35,880
And all you see is like her eyes
slowly move this way and and a a

617
00:33:35,880 --> 00:33:38,480
single tear starts to form here
and you're watching her

618
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:42,200
remember.
And for somebody, yes, she's

619
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,120
gorgeous.
She's a very beautiful woman.

620
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:48,600
But to be able to hold the
camera for that long, doing that

621
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:52,520
little, is an incredibly
impressive acting feat.

622
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:58,600
Dude.
Like one of the one of very few,

623
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:04,680
what I would call perfect shots,
like just everything the movie

624
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:09,639
needed and like transcendent in
the history of cinema where like

625
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:14,679
you could put that down in front
of almost anybody and just let

626
00:34:14,679 --> 00:34:17,560
them sit there with that shot
and feel the weight of the

627
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:22,320
emotion and what's happened.
Like I I would put that up

628
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:26,199
there.
I'd put that up there with, is

629
00:34:26,199 --> 00:34:30,760
it gold rush where, where
Charlie is standing there and

630
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,679
everybody else goes out and he's
it's just a, it's a perfect

631
00:34:33,679 --> 00:34:36,440
shot.
I'd put it up there with Darth

632
00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:39,560
Vader's mask coming on for the
very first time.

633
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,360
Like, like.
Just wow you you'd really put it

634
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:43,600
up there with Star Wars.
That's.

635
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:45,000
Crazy.
I I sure would.

636
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,760
Who knew?
Sorry, here's here's my hot

637
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:53,080
take, Bob.
I think that the flashback scene

638
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:59,200
is unnecessary.
I I think it kind of ruins the

639
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:04,840
one shot of Ingrid Bergman.
Like, I think that shows you the

640
00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,600
emotion.
Yeah, it's making, it's making

641
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,000
you create whatever happened
between them in your mind.

642
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,440
And then you get this weird,
like Fellini fever dream,

643
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,280
whatever the fuck that flashback
is.

644
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,840
I kind of agree with.
I I was reading the Wikipedia

645
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,440
and apparently, like the
director, like Curtis Curtis was

646
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:22,920
the one pushing for that for for
whatever reason.

647
00:35:23,200 --> 00:35:25,720
Oh, interesting.
Yeah, I don't, yeah, it doesn't

648
00:35:25,720 --> 00:35:27,800
do anything.
It doesn't like hurt the film to

649
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:30,920
me, but I could.
I feel like yeah, I could easily

650
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:34,200
imagine it without it.
For for me, it almost like

651
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:38,760
betrays the beauty of that shot.
It's like, OK, we understand the

652
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:42,360
emotional stakes because Bergman
knocks it out of the freaking

653
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:43,720
park.
Yeah.

654
00:35:43,720 --> 00:35:45,400
And then you kind of like put in
this.

655
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,800
It's like the joke that you make
someone create in their head is

656
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:52,120
going to be better than any joke
that you actually tell word for

657
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:54,000
word.
And like the, yeah, the

658
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:56,440
flashback scene is like they're
just telling you like we had, we

659
00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:59,600
created it in our head like this
beautiful, whatever this

660
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:05,000
beautiful relationship was.
Yeah, and, and all you need is

661
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:09,040
for him to in talking to her
when he's calling her a whore,

662
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,000
which apparently we're talking
about a lot tonight, like in

663
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,280
that moment.
That word a lot more than in any

664
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:18,080
other episode of our podcast.
I mean, plus the whole thing is

665
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,640
about the inability to recapture
a moment, which, you know,

666
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:23,960
that's sort of like The Great
Gatsby too, but it's like the,

667
00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:26,880
you know, that's the whole theme
of the movie.

668
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,280
So like when you actually do a
flashback to that moment, you're

669
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:31,440
like, yeah, probably could have
done without that.

670
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,360
Yeah, that's fair.
I I think all you have to do is

671
00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:38,480
have Bogart angrily describe
what it was like waiting on the

672
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:41,640
train platform for her, and I
think that would have been way

673
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,200
more effective than actually
showing the scene.

674
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:48,160
My defense for it and I'm
actually with you guys like if

675
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,960
they had cut it, I think it's
still a great movie, right and

676
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:52,840
and.
Then it would be it would be a

677
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:55,040
90 minute film then.
That's true.

678
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,320
I only know this movie with the
flashback in it so it's really

679
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:02,120
hard to imagine it without.
But like to see them go from

680
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:06,440
Humphrey Bogart like slunched
over a bottle of bourbon to a

681
00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,120
flashback where you see him
smiling for the first time in

682
00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:11,240
the whole movie and you're like,
this is a completely different.

683
00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:14,240
Drive in a convertible like
bears in the world.

684
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,400
Just right out into the French
countryside.

685
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,320
He doesn't care.
Also and his smile is not great

686
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,720
he like barely shows.
Yeah, well, his face is all

687
00:37:23,720 --> 00:37:26,200
jacked up.
He just like, shows a a few of

688
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,760
his top teeth that are all like
wonky, Yeah.

689
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:29,600
He's got bad.
Teeth.

690
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:31,120
So I mean, it is what it is,
man.

691
00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,040
You have a beautiful smile and I
don't now I feel offended by

692
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,120
this.
So what are you really talking

693
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:37,640
about here?
I guess is what I'm saying.

694
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:40,560
I mean I miss real teeth in
movies like.

695
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:42,120
Yes.
I mean.

696
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:45,120
That's always like when when an
actor hits the age where you see

697
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:48,000
that they've gotten like veneers
or dentures put in.

698
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:50,560
Like when Clooney hit his
denture phase.

699
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:53,480
I was like, no, Clooney's
actually old now.

700
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:57,600
I was just going to say, like I,
I did a re watch of the Mission

701
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:00,480
Impossible franchise before the
new movie or right around the

702
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:02,400
time that came out.
And then like, like there's a

703
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:06,080
distinct difference between Tom
Cruise up until Mission

704
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,320
Impossible 2.
And then he got some, some like

705
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,200
major dental work done between
2:00 and 3:00 to make it look

706
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,440
quote UN quote better.
But it's like the fact that he

707
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:19,160
had like teeth that had a little
bit of character made him more

708
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:21,000
handsome.
And like, you take that away,

709
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,800
it's like, you know, it's, it's,
it's sanding down one of the

710
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,240
idiosyncrasies that sort of made
him interesting.

711
00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:30,400
You know who I bet never had
anything done on his teeth?

712
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:34,160
Steve Buscemi.
I'll bet you he's just rocking.

713
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,600
Whatever man of character right
there, Steve Buscemi and then

714
00:38:37,720 --> 00:38:40,160
you know, Willem Dafoe has
enough teeth for both of them.

715
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:42,960
So that's it's perfect like.
And they're more handsome

716
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,720
because of it.
I love it man, both of them.

717
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,400
I forget what movie he was
talking about, but I interviewed

718
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:50,600
Ben Foster about some movie that
he did.

719
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:55,240
I think it was some sort of
movie where he was in combat or

720
00:38:55,240 --> 00:38:56,760
something.
And like the rumor was that he

721
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,720
like ate dirt on the set of
whatever movie.

722
00:38:59,720 --> 00:39:03,120
And he was like, so I when I was
asking him about it, I was like,

723
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:05,080
oh, is this true?
Like, what was the story behind

724
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:05,960
that?
And he's like, you know, I was

725
00:39:05,960 --> 00:39:09,360
just looking around and I see
all of us pretty boy actors with

726
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,240
our caps teeth, like looking
like we just got out of like

727
00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:16,280
whatever, you know, like looking
like we just came from the the

728
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,400
dentist and we're playing this
war scene.

729
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,720
And it didn't feel right for me.
So I like started eating.

730
00:39:21,720 --> 00:39:24,880
He put dirt in his mouth to try
and make it, you know, a little

731
00:39:24,880 --> 00:39:27,840
more realistic.
I don't think I've ever heard a

732
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,840
better description of actor
brain that they're like, how do

733
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,080
I make my teeth look like the
peasants again?

734
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,400
They eat dirt, right?
This is what you people do,

735
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:42,080
right?
Oh man, guys, we've we've talked

736
00:39:42,080 --> 00:39:45,400
about teeth and bug eyes and
very little about the acting

737
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:49,440
performances in this movie like.
I think the movie doesn't work

738
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:50,080
with that.
Sorry.

739
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,680
Go ahead. 100 No, I I completely
agree with you.

740
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,320
Like, you have to have these
characters in the movie and you

741
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,160
know, we'll touch on some of
this, but there's so much lore

742
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:03,440
of like, you know, the the Lamar
Sayaz scene is stocked with all

743
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:05,880
of these extras.
Many of whom were like

744
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:08,480
legitimate war refugees from
Europe.

745
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,720
And they said California made
this in 1942.

746
00:40:11,720 --> 00:40:14,120
Was so insane to me.
Like the movie, I mean sorry,

747
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:17,640
the war had like just kind of
started like it like movies take

748
00:40:17,640 --> 00:40:20,680
a while to make.
Like they made a such a perfect

749
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,360
World War 2 movie.
Like in the middle of it.

750
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:26,240
Like the Nazis were still very
much winning at this point.

751
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:29,480
Yeah, like I, I don't have the
Wikipedia pulled up, so I'm

752
00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:31,400
trying to figure out like,
exactly when they filmed the

753
00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:32,760
movie.
But you have to think that it

754
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:37,200
was at least in production, like
when Pearl Harbor was happening,

755
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:38,160
right?
It came out at the end.

756
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:43,440
It happened, it happened.
They released it just after the

757
00:40:43,720 --> 00:40:47,520
Allied invasion of North Africa.
So I think it is like before

758
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:51,520
D-Day still like when it comes
out like there was, I, I guess

759
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:56,600
there was discussions about
whether to try and fit like the

760
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,400
invasion of North Africa into
the movie.

761
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,160
And then they were like, no, we
can't do that.

762
00:41:01,760 --> 00:41:03,760
I'm so glad they didn't.
And like, it's not like it's a

763
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:07,520
very complicated metaphor, like
Rick as this picture of American

764
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:09,880
isolationism.
But like, there's one small

765
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:12,680
moment where Claude Rayne says
something, you know, he says, I

766
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:15,040
stick my neck out for nobody.
And then Claude Rayne says a

767
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:19,320
wise foreign policy.
And, you know, the entire arc of

768
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,280
his character is like, what's
going to be the thing that makes

769
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:25,400
him stick his neck out?
Because even as that Marseilles

770
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:29,560
scene starts, he's been talking
with Victor Laszlo upstairs.

771
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:32,320
They come out onto the balcony
and they look down and Rick

772
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:34,520
doesn't do anything.
Like Rick is just letting this

773
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,680
play out kind of, you know,
blowing with the wind and seeing

774
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,760
where where fate takes this.
And it's Victor Laszlo that's

775
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:44,520
like, screw this, like go down
and confront these guys.

776
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,520
And throughout the whole movie,
you know, yes, we're we're

777
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,120
familiar with Rick because he's
the protagonist of our movie.

778
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:54,200
But like, Victor Laszlo is the
better person throughout the

779
00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:55,720
movie.
And, like, the guy who's

780
00:41:55,720 --> 00:41:58,400
actually has principles and
stands on something.

781
00:41:58,720 --> 00:42:01,680
And so the question is, is Rick
ever gonna get to the point

782
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:05,880
where he could be worthy of
Ingrid Bergman's love and worthy

783
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:07,800
of the kind of guy that he used
to be?

784
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:12,040
And it's such a great little
metaphor for like, hey, we just

785
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:14,480
got bombed by the Japanese.
Like, are we gonna, like,

786
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,800
finally get into this fight that
people been begging us to get

787
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:19,960
into?
That seems like such a perfect

788
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,760
example of this movie where it's
like, you could describe that.

789
00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:25,160
Like you could put that on
paper.

790
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,800
Like, OK, these Germans are
singing their song and then they

791
00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,560
come in and they sing the
Marcias and they they drown them

792
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:33,240
out like on paper.
Like that does nothing for me.

793
00:42:33,240 --> 00:42:34,680
I'm like, OK, whatever, that's
stupid.

794
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:37,120
And then you watch it and you're
like, yeah, I want to like run

795
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:38,960
through a brick wall, brick wall
right now.

796
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:43,160
I'm fucking pumped.
Like and, and I will think that

797
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:46,440
about that scene and I'll think
it can't possibly make me feel

798
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:48,400
that way again.
And then every time I watch it,

799
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:50,720
it's the same damn thing.
And I'm like, I don't.

800
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:53,240
You're like standing up with
with Laszlo, Yeah.

801
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,600
I don't know the words, I don't
know what the I don't know what

802
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:58,960
the Marseilles is about.
I don't even know the melody.

803
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,920
But like, I don't know, just the
way he shoots that scene with

804
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:08,200
the final shot of Yvonne, who by
the way, like when she first

805
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:10,840
enters, I'm like, why is Rick
throwing this hot chick out of

806
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:12,000
his bar?
I don't really get it.

807
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:14,160
What's his like?
Why does he hate this super hot

808
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,480
chick so much?
And then angry Bird.

809
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,480
Vince's character, if he was in
the movie, would be Claude

810
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:20,400
Rains.
Yeah.

811
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:22,360
Yeah.
Angry Bergeron shows up and I'm

812
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:24,000
like, OK, this is the one you're
in love with.

813
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:25,960
All right, whatever.
But then it works like

814
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:28,160
everything else in the movie,
where at first you're kind of

815
00:43:28,640 --> 00:43:31,720
you're sort of like you have
your hackles up a little bit and

816
00:43:31,720 --> 00:43:35,440
then it it, it gradually lowers
your defenses until you're like,

817
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:37,840
OK, just let this movie into my
heart.

818
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:40,920
Well, and then you get that
story of like Michael Curtis

819
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:45,560
specifically stocking Ricks with
extras from Europe who have fled

820
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:48,400
the war.
And you know, I've heard it said

821
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:51,880
like 1000 times, but it's true.
Like watch anybody in the

822
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:56,280
background in that scene and
there are people weeping and

823
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,040
it's real because they're like,
they have just escaped

824
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:01,960
atrocities in Europe and they're
coming to make this movie in

825
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:03,800
America.
It's it's one of those stories

826
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:06,400
from Hollywood that's like too
good to be true, but it's

827
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:10,120
actually one of the true ones.
And I think like maybe another

828
00:44:10,120 --> 00:44:13,560
great example of this, Brad is
the guy who plays Major

829
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:17,480
Strasser, Conrad Weit again, he
was a famous German actor.

830
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,880
There's a really like he's.
So on metal looking.

831
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,520
He's that dude.
No one has ever looked more like

832
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,120
a Nazi than Conrad.
Bike in this movie, his eyes.

833
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:32,120
He was like the most popular
actor in Germany in the early

834
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:34,960
days of film.
And there's a landmark silent

835
00:44:34,960 --> 00:44:37,960
movie called The Cabinet of
Doctor Caligari that he starred

836
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:39,680
in.
He comes to America.

837
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:39,840
He.
He.

838
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:41,240
Silently played the cabinet
right.

839
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:45,920
He was the Cabinet, yes.
What range on this guy, Right.

840
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:49,400
The sound pictures hit.
He has to go back to Germany

841
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:51,400
because he has this thick German
accent.

842
00:44:51,720 --> 00:44:55,160
But he arrives back in Germany
at the same time that the Nazis

843
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:56,920
are coming to power.
And he's like these.

844
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:58,840
These guys certainly seem to
suck.

845
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:03,560
And what ends up happening is he
marries a Jewish woman and right

846
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:07,080
around the time he gets married,
they start sending out these

847
00:45:07,080 --> 00:45:09,400
kind of like census documents
that are like, you have to

848
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:13,680
declare what race you are.
And he wasn't Jewish, but his

849
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:15,040
wife was.
And he knew it was going to

850
00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:16,880
happen.
So he wrote down that his race

851
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:20,760
was Jewish on this thing just as
like a fuck you to the Nazis and

852
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:22,920
then took his wife and fled to
America.

853
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:25,520
And Brad, I've got some facts
pulled up about Conrad Bite.

854
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:29,200
He agreed to play Nazi
characters in Hollywood films

855
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,640
with the stipulation that they
must always be portrayed as

856
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,000
villains.
It was a contractual demand he

857
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:37,520
enforced to ensure that the
roles that his roles undermined

858
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:41,520
the Nazi 'cause he fled Nazi
Germany with his Jewish wife,

859
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:44,600
supported his ex-wife and
daughter in their escape from

860
00:45:44,600 --> 00:45:46,720
Germany, demonstrating his
commitment to fighting the

861
00:45:46,720 --> 00:45:49,400
regime.
He donated his life savings to

862
00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:51,680
the British government to aid
the war effort.

863
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:58,280
When he first fled Germany, he
went to England and bought 2000

864
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:02,600
different packages of candy to
deliver who to kids whose houses

865
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:05,480
were bombed in the bombing of
London, and then continued to

866
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,560
give his salary from every movie
he made back to the war effort

867
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:10,920
just to fight the Nazis.
Dude was a bad ass.

868
00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:14,120
That's insane.
Yeah, man.

869
00:46:14,240 --> 00:46:17,880
Like that's and it's like, you
know, people make Movies Now and

870
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:20,720
yes, they have the power to go
along with it, but it's like,

871
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:23,760
how often do you get a story
about to your point, Vince, this

872
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:27,800
was happening as the war was
going on and the people in the

873
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:32,200
movie were part of it overseas.
And now they're coming here to

874
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:34,240
make this movie.
Every time I watch it, like I

875
00:46:34,240 --> 00:46:38,440
can't figure out how they made
the timeline work that well,

876
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:42,720
'cause I'm like trying to
imagine, like the best War on

877
00:46:42,720 --> 00:46:48,640
Terror movie coming out in 2003.
Like it's just it's yeah, it's

878
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:50,480
crazy.
Also, what's what does that

879
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:54,520
casting call look like?
Are you recently escaped from

880
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:56,080
Europe?
We need.

881
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:59,760
You.
It's like a shady lawyer, like

882
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:01,400
what the guys that now would be
doing.

883
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:02,800
Like were you hurt in a car
accident?

884
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,360
Like did you escape atrocities
in Nazi Germany if so?

885
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:07,040
What are?
What are?

886
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:10,880
Your 1800 Hollywood.
Cause in California we have like

887
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:15,320
3 everybody knows like the three
dude billboard lawyers, like we

888
00:47:15,320 --> 00:47:20,040
have Anne Fong, we have sweet
James What, what are your and

889
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:21,800
and and accidentes?
What are your guys?

890
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:25,920
You know who I'm thinking of?
Tim Nisney.

891
00:47:26,080 --> 00:47:30,160
And I'll make them pay.
There's a guy named Tim Mizney

892
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:34,440
who looks like knock off, like
great value, Mr. Clean, very

893
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:36,840
bald.
And his thing is that like,

894
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:39,840
yeah, he his commercial, he
would buy 5 second airtime

895
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:43,600
commercials and he would just
say I'm Tim Mizney and I'll make

896
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:45,040
them pay.
That's it.

897
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:47,840
And he's very.
So famous in Cleveland now that

898
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:50,400
like he he owns like every
billboard in Cleveland.

899
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:53,360
And it would used to say Tim
Mizney make them pay and he

900
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:55,640
would be like cock in one
eyebrow like the Rock.

901
00:47:56,200 --> 00:48:00,000
And now they've made it so that
he the iconography of Tim Mizney

902
00:48:00,000 --> 00:48:03,440
is so legendary in Northeast
Ohio that the Billboard is just

903
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,280
an extreme close up of his eyes
doing this.

904
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:09,080
And there's no text.
It's just Tim Mizney's eyebrow.

905
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:12,280
He's like Mark I've.
Jordan one that just says, you

906
00:48:12,280 --> 00:48:15,640
know what I'll do?
Which is so threatening.

907
00:48:17,040 --> 00:48:20,600
We have a guy named Sweet James,
which is disconcerting.

908
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:23,000
Like if you saw the guy's face,
he does not look like a sweet

909
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:24,520
guy.
He looks like a very.

910
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,360
He's just a very ugly man.
I feel like sweet.

911
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:32,040
James was in some like it hot
and he was like a hit man trying

912
00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:32,600
to kill.
Yeah.

913
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:35,800
Right.
It's just like a creepy name.

914
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,000
It doesn't fit the guy.
Like you wonder if he chose it

915
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:40,240
because he knew people would be
like what the hell?

916
00:48:40,240 --> 00:48:42,680
Why is this guy calling himself
Sweet James and then apparently

917
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:46,480
like he is Mary or he's the
ex-husband of someone who was on

918
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:48,680
one of the Real Housewife type
shows?

919
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:51,680
So.
And he's a very shady character,

920
00:48:51,720 --> 00:48:53,840
yeah.
When when they're like reading

921
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:57,200
the, you know, the who's in
court into record.

922
00:48:57,200 --> 00:48:59,240
It's like and counsel for the
defense.

923
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:04,680
Sweet James.
Full legal name.

924
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,480
Sweet James.
Guys, I think this is a good

925
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:11,080
place for us to hit pause, Brad.
I've been really excited to dive

926
00:49:11,080 --> 00:49:13,760
back into not just this movie,
but our whiskey for the day,

927
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:16,080
which is Elijah Craig Small
Batch.

928
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:18,000
Vince is actually going to join
us for this review.

929
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:19,360
He's got a bottle in front of
him.

930
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:21,760
What do you say we get into this
review, Brad, dude?

931
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:23,360
I'm ready for it.
Let's go.

932
00:49:30,100 --> 00:49:33,940
All right, so today we are
checking out Elijah Craig, Small

933
00:49:33,940 --> 00:49:37,000
Batch Brad, one of the first
whiskeys.

934
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:40,240
I think that made a big
impression on us as we recorded

935
00:49:40,240 --> 00:49:42,440
this podcast.
Not necessarily 'cause it was

936
00:49:42,440 --> 00:49:45,240
like the best thing we'd ever
drank, but it became a really

937
00:49:45,240 --> 00:49:49,120
good baseline for us where, OK,
it's not benchmark, it's

938
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:51,160
definitely like the second shelf
up.

939
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:54,840
And then I think everything in
that price point for a long time

940
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:58,040
we compared to Elijah Craig,
like, is this as good as Elijah

941
00:49:58,040 --> 00:49:59,800
Craig, yes or no?
And that was like how we

942
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:04,480
determined value on stuff.
Yeah, I, I think that Elijah

943
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,280
Craig really set the standard
for us.

944
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:10,680
It's been so long since I've
returned to it, Bob.

945
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:15,680
I like, I have not drank this
probably since we had it, maybe

946
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:18,920
once since.
So I, I've already drank it.

947
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:21,840
I'm still drinking it, as you
can see.

948
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:25,680
I'm really excited to get into
it, man, because it's been a

949
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:28,160
while.
I've been trying not to drink

950
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:31,400
too much while we record this
and it's very hard.

951
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:34,600
No, we prefer it the other way.
You trying to drink as much?

952
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:36,800
Conversations are it's right
here.

953
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:38,800
Conversations are much better if
you're drinking it throughout

954
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:40,680
the whole thing.
Tempting me, yeah.

955
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:44,920
Vince, do you have any history
with Elijah Craig Small Batch?

956
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:51,280
You know, like I actually don't
it was not one of my, you know,

957
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:56,400
go to favorites in the past.
Like I'm very much a Wild Turkey

958
00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:57,920
person.
I'm very yeah.

959
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:01,600
So I like that, that that's sort
of like my baseline go to and

960
00:51:02,560 --> 00:51:04,560
that sort of speaks to me for
whatever reason.

961
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:07,440
But I'm very much enjoying it
this time.

962
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:11,400
And fairly, it's like it feels
like it hits super oaky.

963
00:51:11,400 --> 00:51:14,400
It's like like a big oak caramel
punch.

964
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:17,000
And it makes me want to keep
going back to it.

965
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:19,680
And I will probably get it again
after this.

966
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:23,400
There you go, Brad, Some
statistics that we should get

967
00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:25,520
into here before we start the
review.

968
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:29,680
This is a Heaven Hill whiskey.
We just visited Heaven Hill for

969
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:33,080
the first time this past summer.
Incredible operations going on

970
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:35,040
down there at the Heaven Hill
distilleries.

971
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:40,840
The mash bill on this one is 78%
corn, 10% rye, 12% malted

972
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:42,760
barley.
So the rye is very low in the

973
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:44,920
mash bill.
It should be a really easy one

974
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:47,160
to drink.
I was surprised to find out that

975
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:51,240
the all the barrels that this is
aged in are only charred to a #3

976
00:51:51,240 --> 00:51:53,920
char instead of that #4
alligator char.

977
00:51:54,720 --> 00:51:57,000
And again, I think it just kind
of plays into the fact that this

978
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:00,000
is going to be like a little bit
more of an approachable softer

979
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:04,080
whiskey for you, especially at
the 94 proof point that we have

980
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:06,480
here, Brad.
And I, I will say, if you're

981
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:10,720
going to come under 100 and not
go all the way down to 80, I

982
00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:15,560
think that mid 90s proof point
is a really great spot where you

983
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:19,320
have a decent amount of flavor
that comes through and yet

984
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:23,680
you're not hitting this high
proof 110 plus blasting you out

985
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:26,680
of the water.
And Bob, I'm not going to lie,

986
00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:29,960
man, the more we've Drake
whiskey, the more you realize

987
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:33,240
you're like, I can drink a
decent amount of 94 proof

988
00:52:33,240 --> 00:52:37,280
whiskey.
You hit one O 4110 like yeah,

989
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:40,040
it's a lot.
Quicker, dude, it it sure does.

990
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:42,160
But yeah, that's for sure.
And I see Vince is drinking this

991
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:44,880
on a big old rock.
Brad, I'm trying this neat in my

992
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:47,840
little mini Glenn Cairn here.
Let's go ahead and dive in,

993
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:49,600
guys.
So Vince, the way this works is

994
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:52,200
we'll assess this across a
couple different categories.

995
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:56,080
The nose, the taste, the finish,
the overall balance, and then

996
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:58,320
we'll talk about the price of it
and determine the value.

997
00:52:58,680 --> 00:53:01,000
We'll give scores out of 10 on
each of these.

998
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:04,280
Brad, what are you picking up on
the nose of this Elijah Craig?

999
00:53:05,200 --> 00:53:11,360
Dude, the nose is just like the
platonic ideal of what you want

1000
00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:14,000
from a bourbon.
There is caramel, there's brown

1001
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:17,600
sugar, there's vanilla.
For me, it gets a little bit

1002
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:21,960
nutty, a a hint of banana kind
of going on.

1003
00:53:22,840 --> 00:53:26,840
But those are like the the
effervescent kind of extras you

1004
00:53:26,840 --> 00:53:28,840
get.
This is bourbon.

1005
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:31,480
This is everything you want out
of a bourbon.

1006
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:35,880
I I don't think it's like
transcendently great, but I

1007
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:38,360
think it's really good.
I'll give it a 7 1/2.

1008
00:53:39,320 --> 00:53:41,360
Yeah, I'm going to give it a
nine out of 10 because I'm with

1009
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:42,640
you.
It's not like a transcendent.

1010
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:45,640
It's it's all of the notes that
people say they smell when they

1011
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:47,880
smell bourbon.
So it is kind of like the

1012
00:53:47,880 --> 00:53:51,680
quintessence of burfin.
It's not like blowing me away,

1013
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:53,280
but you're right, it's caramel,
it's vanilla.

1014
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:55,960
It's there's tons of oak on
this, but the oak presents is

1015
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:59,360
like really spicy black pepper,
cinnamon, nutmeg.

1016
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:02,960
I get a lot of Maple on this.
It's just a damn good nose for a

1017
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:03,640
bourbon.
Brad.

1018
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:05,640
I'm going to give it a nine out
of 10.

1019
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:08,440
Vince, any thoughts on the nose
here?

1020
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:12,520
Yeah, I think I agree with you.
I'm, I was surprised at how low

1021
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:17,440
the rye was in the mash bill
too, because when I taste it,

1022
00:54:17,720 --> 00:54:19,480
well, I mean, I know we're
talking about the nose, but when

1023
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:23,920
I taste it, it has that like
pepperiness and there is that, I

1024
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:26,640
don't know how to describe it.
It's like a sparklingness like

1025
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:32,040
on my, when I on the nose, like
there's like that punchy, like

1026
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:35,360
oaky, it's like a spicy peppery
thing.

1027
00:54:35,360 --> 00:54:39,880
But then it's very much balanced
by, like you said, all the

1028
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:43,120
things that you expect from
bourbon, like like this smells

1029
00:54:43,120 --> 00:54:46,920
like what like a, a, like the
bourbon soap that I that I've

1030
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:49,600
bought like from the hardware
store smells like, it's like,

1031
00:54:49,840 --> 00:54:55,240
it's what the, the people who
create like the the sense draw

1032
00:54:55,240 --> 00:54:58,520
from basically.
I could just see Vince's wife

1033
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:01,640
being like, honey, why don't you
use the the body wash that I

1034
00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:02,880
bought?
You're like, no, no, I'm sorry.

1035
00:55:03,120 --> 00:55:05,440
I buy bourbon soap from the
hardware store.

1036
00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:08,200
Yeah, yeah.
The the place that I go to smell

1037
00:55:08,200 --> 00:55:10,640
all my nuts and bolts, I also
need soap from there.

1038
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:15,160
I want to smell like my drink.
Dude, I'm not going to lie, one

1039
00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:19,360
of my buddies, like kind of as a
joke for a Christmas gift got me

1040
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:27,480
one of those like whiskey soap
pack things and it has a tin of

1041
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:32,600
like a solid Cologne that's
supposedly like Buffalo Trace

1042
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:34,880
bourbon.
Smells incredible, dude.

1043
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:38,960
It it is, they figured out
pumpkin spice.

1044
00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:45,560
Yeah, that's exactly what.
It is as we get into the taste

1045
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:47,680
here, I think pumpkin spice
might actually be a good lead in

1046
00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:49,120
here because there is a ton for
me.

1047
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:52,920
There's a ton of baking spice on
this, Brad, I will say like it's

1048
00:55:52,920 --> 00:55:54,240
everything you want in a
bourbon.

1049
00:55:54,240 --> 00:55:56,760
But as I kind of kick it to the
back of my palate, there's like

1050
00:55:56,760 --> 00:56:00,600
1 little note that across my
palate, it was like pink bubble

1051
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:02,520
gum.
But as it got to the back of my

1052
00:56:02,520 --> 00:56:05,880
palate, it turned a little bit
like aspartamey, like it has

1053
00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:08,920
almost like an artificial
sweetness to the back of the

1054
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:12,200
palate and into the finish.
So I don't know, I guess I'll

1055
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:13,880
Ding it for that here instead of
the finish.

1056
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:16,680
But I'm going to come down to
like a 7 out of 10 on the taste

1057
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:20,320
here.
I mean, for me the the palate

1058
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:22,720
sat with a lot of like burnt
sugar.

1059
00:56:23,360 --> 00:56:26,200
It got a little bit peanutty.
The caramel and vanilla were

1060
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:30,920
there that had like a sugary
sweetness, like a frosting, and

1061
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:33,600
it had that oaky spiciness going
on.

1062
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:38,240
It's not like wildly complex,
but there's a lot of flavor

1063
00:56:38,240 --> 00:56:40,920
going on here that once again, I
really like it.

1064
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:44,120
It's really solid.
I'm sitting at a 7 1/2 out of 10

1065
00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:45,880
on the palate.
But I just switched.

1066
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:49,560
I switched to tasting it neat
and like it is different.

1067
00:56:49,560 --> 00:56:53,320
I get less oak, and I know what
you mean by the sort of

1068
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:58,000
artificial sweetener flavor.
For some reason I wasn't getting

1069
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:01,280
that as much like with a big ice
cube in it.

1070
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:04,600
I was getting more of the oaky,
like leathery notes.

1071
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:10,040
But yeah, I I agree with that.
It's sort of like it has a

1072
00:57:10,040 --> 00:57:18,080
syrupy quality to it that cuts
the pepperiness in a way that it

1073
00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:21,160
makes it approachable.
But I don't 100% love.

1074
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:24,600
So yeah, I would say it's like a
8 for me, yeah.

1075
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:26,880
Yeah, Brad.
And then on the finish, I

1076
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:29,840
actually, since I dinged it for
that note on the pallet, I'll

1077
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:31,760
kind of come back up a little
bit on the finish.

1078
00:57:32,120 --> 00:57:34,320
Super warming.
Like you feel it in your chest.

1079
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:37,640
Like to your point, that 94
proof is just high enough that

1080
00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:39,880
you're like, all right, this has
a backbone to it.

1081
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:41,880
This would stand up and really
great in a cocktail.

1082
00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:44,360
I think this would make a killer
old Fashioned because there's

1083
00:57:44,360 --> 00:57:48,280
just enough of that burnt sugar
flavor you were talking about

1084
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:52,640
and quite a bit of oak on this.
I'm going to come up to like and

1085
00:57:52,640 --> 00:57:56,400
8.5 on the finish.
Dude, you are all.

1086
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:58,280
Over the place with your scores.
I love this man.

1087
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:03,200
Yeah.
I am just consistent throughout

1088
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:06,400
man.
I think this is okie peppery.

1089
00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:09,680
The vanilla is like the main
sweet flavor that sticks around

1090
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:12,240
for me.
Once again, I'm going to give it

1091
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:16,120
a 7 1/2 I'd like.
I think this is a really solid

1092
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:18,440
example of what you should
expect from a bourbon.

1093
00:58:18,480 --> 00:58:22,400
I will go 8 1/2 because I don't
know what it's hard to define

1094
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:25,880
like a thing that makes you want
to continue drinking it.

1095
00:58:25,880 --> 00:58:30,520
I tend to judge bourbons by like
how long they hang around in my

1096
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:32,720
liquor cabinet.
Like, you know, I can say what

1097
00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:34,080
you want about it.
Like this is good.

1098
00:58:34,080 --> 00:58:36,440
This has this note that says
that note, But it's like there's

1099
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:38,840
my three-week bourbons and then
there's bourbons that have been

1100
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:42,320
in there for four years and
this.

1101
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:44,520
I have a term.
I have a term for you.

1102
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:47,280
Are you ready?
What's that crush ability?

1103
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:50,360
Crush ability.
Yeah, the the craft beer guys

1104
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:53,240
love that one.
And I don't know, maybe it's my

1105
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:59,760
opinion of craft beer world, but
no, like, this feels more like a

1106
00:59:00,160 --> 00:59:04,240
three-week bourbon than it does
a 2 year bourbon for sure.

1107
00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:07,720
Yep, Yeah, it's versatile.
I think you could throw it into

1108
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:09,920
any sort of cocktail or you
could drink it neat.

1109
00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:14,160
And I think that that's why on
balance, you know, Vince, we

1110
00:59:14,160 --> 00:59:17,600
judge balance especially by like
how consistent was it across

1111
00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:20,240
those first 3 categories that it
kind of do this a little bit.

1112
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:23,160
And for me, I do think the
taste, I had to Ding it a little

1113
00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:24,840
bit.
But overall, Brad, I think this

1114
00:59:24,840 --> 00:59:27,960
is still a really well balanced
whiskey, especially when you

1115
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:31,400
consider that this is like the
baseline offering and that

1116
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:34,480
they're cranking out how many
thousands of barrels of this a

1117
00:59:34,480 --> 00:59:41,040
year for like the the name brand
middle shelf product that this

1118
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:42,560
is.
This is like an 8 out of 10 on

1119
00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:45,680
balance for me.
I'm I'm with you man, 8 out of

1120
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:50,280
10 on balance that the mixture
of flavors is really beautiful.

1121
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:53,320
It's peppery but not overly
oaked.

1122
00:59:53,600 --> 00:59:58,440
It's sweet, but not it doesn't
like dive into this wildly rich

1123
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:01,560
cloying, like way too much
sweetness.

1124
01:00:01,880 --> 01:00:04,520
So yeah, I I think I'm sitting
in an 8 out of 10 on balance as

1125
01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:05,720
well.
I'll go with that.

1126
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:07,840
It's all B plus.
No, it's very, I would say

1127
01:00:07,840 --> 01:00:14,480
balance is probably its main
quality like it's most like most

1128
01:00:14,480 --> 01:00:17,600
memorable quality, like it's
just got all of the elements

1129
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:21,600
that you expect in a bourbon and
they're all there and they're

1130
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:25,520
working together.
Yeah, I think if I can be like

1131
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:30,240
draw some crude boundaries here,
Brad, like bottom shelf whiskey,

1132
01:00:30,280 --> 01:00:34,520
you almost want it to announce
itself as little as possible

1133
01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:37,240
because like if any notes are
going to come out from bottom

1134
01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:39,080
shelf whiskey, it's going to be.
They're not going to be good.

1135
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:41,920
And then you, when you work your
way up to this kind of middle

1136
01:00:41,920 --> 01:00:45,240
shelf where it's this and
Woodford and maybe, you know,

1137
01:00:45,320 --> 01:00:50,840
Wild Turkey one O 1 or anything
in in that realm, like you're

1138
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:54,120
finally getting into, Oh, I want
this to stick around and I want

1139
01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:57,760
it to feel like I can't believe
I got it for only 30 bucks.

1140
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:01,400
And I think that that this is
still to me, kind of like the

1141
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:05,280
platonic ideal of that shelf.
So as we get into value here,

1142
01:01:05,280 --> 01:01:07,440
Brad, I actually don't know what
this is selling for in the state

1143
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:08,120
of Ohio.
Now.

1144
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:09,600
Have they raised the price on
it?

1145
01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:12,880
This is $35.
I think it's damn good, man.

1146
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:16,240
If it was 30, it'd be a 10.
I think it's 35.

1147
01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:18,160
I'm still going to give it like
a nine.

1148
01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:23,680
This like I would probably buy
this before I bought Woodford

1149
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:27,400
and I like Woodford a lot so.
That's where I'm at with it.

1150
01:01:27,840 --> 01:01:30,160
Yeah.
I, I would say I think I'm still

1151
01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:33,600
a Woodford guy at that $35 price
range.

1152
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:36,880
I still think this is an 8 out
of 10 on value, that this is a

1153
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:42,080
really, really good whiskey.
And anymore, man, it just, it

1154
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:46,440
feels like it's hard to find
great whiskey in that 32 to $36

1155
01:01:46,440 --> 01:01:49,960
range.
So I I'm all in on this.

1156
01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:53,840
Yeah, I have a bottle of wood
Woodford in my liquor cabinet

1157
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:58,080
right now and I think this would
go faster than the Woodford if

1158
01:01:58,120 --> 01:02:01,840
I'm OK being honest.
Yeah, like for me, if we're

1159
01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:04,680
talking about that, I don't know
what like the Wild Turkey one O

1160
01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:08,320
1 is going for.
If that's the same price point

1161
01:02:08,320 --> 01:02:10,960
to me that's like that.
I'd probably put that like a

1162
01:02:10,960 --> 01:02:14,040
little bit higher, but that's
more just like a sense memory

1163
01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:17,040
than a thing that I'm evaluating
like one, one to one.

1164
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:20,400
It's just sort of like probably
just like based on good vibes I

1165
01:02:20,400 --> 01:02:22,240
have with that for whatever
reason.

1166
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:26,960
But yeah, this feels like a very
solid whiskey for 35 bucks.

1167
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:32,280
Now I will say Wild Turkey one O
1 in the state of Ohio, 2499,

1168
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:34,720
yeah.
Oh man, that's good value.

1169
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:38,320
That's a really good value man.
I think for me, Brad, if I'm

1170
01:02:38,320 --> 01:02:40,960
like, if I have to grab 2
bottles off the shelf, off this

1171
01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:43,800
shelf at the liquor store, it's
probably this and it's Maker's

1172
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:45,560
Mark so that I can get a good
weeded bourbon.

1173
01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:49,320
I like Maker's a lot.
But yeah, I'd probably put

1174
01:02:49,600 --> 01:02:52,520
Coopers Craft 100 up there.
No, that's in there too.

1175
01:02:52,560 --> 01:02:54,080
That's yeah, we're gonna sneak
1/3.

1176
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:56,760
Because Makers is like a
completely different experience

1177
01:02:56,760 --> 01:03:00,320
than this in my my mind.
I like also, but like, I don't

1178
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:01,680
know, we did.
We did bourbon.

1179
01:03:01,680 --> 01:03:03,480
It's great.
It's just like a completely

1180
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:04,960
different experience in some
ways.

1181
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:10,280
Brad, I'm coming out to an
extraordinarily high 41.5 out of

1182
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:11,640
50 on this.
Whiskey deal.

1183
01:03:11,640 --> 01:03:14,680
I was going to say, dude, you
were you were given some some

1184
01:03:14,680 --> 01:03:17,960
capital S scores to this whiskey
man.

1185
01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:21,880
It's.
Not crazy is like the Elijah

1186
01:03:21,880 --> 01:03:25,240
Craig barrel proofs that people
like stand in line for.

1187
01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:29,400
I think that pound for pound, I
like this better than the barrel

1188
01:03:29,400 --> 01:03:31,600
proof version.
I think it's every once in a

1189
01:03:31,600 --> 01:03:34,080
while you just have to have a
really good cocktail bourbon and

1190
01:03:34,080 --> 01:03:38,080
this is that for me.
Yeah, I mean, I I'd like this a

1191
01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:40,280
lot.
I will recommend you go buy it.

1192
01:03:40,480 --> 01:03:42,520
You can try it.
You can do whatever you want.

1193
01:03:42,520 --> 01:03:44,080
Spend your money on it.
It's good stuff.

1194
01:03:44,440 --> 01:03:50,000
I'm coming out to a 38.5 Bob.
That is, it's a good score.

1195
01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:52,720
This isn't a. 40 plus whiskey,
dude.

1196
01:03:52,840 --> 01:03:54,240
Well, that's where you're wrong,
my friend.

1197
01:03:55,120 --> 01:03:57,600
I'm just Vince is going to come
in and give it a perfect 50 out

1198
01:03:57,600 --> 01:03:59,360
of 50, right?
Man, I was supposed to be doing

1199
01:03:59,360 --> 01:04:01,000
math this whole time.
I have no idea.

1200
01:04:01,000 --> 01:04:04,360
I was just enjoying bourbon.
I'm going to give it a 40.

1201
01:04:04,680 --> 01:04:07,400
Let's say there it is.
Guess what Brad, Guess what?

1202
01:04:07,480 --> 01:04:10,040
Guess what we come out to on
average anyway, between our 2

1203
01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:14,320
scores, we come out to an 80 out
of 100 or a 40 out of 50.

1204
01:04:14,600 --> 01:04:16,520
Boom.
So this is hitting that like

1205
01:04:17,200 --> 01:04:20,240
rarefied air.
There's only been a few whiskeys

1206
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:22,800
that are like in this price
point that hit this, and it's

1207
01:04:22,800 --> 01:04:25,560
usually because they're not
knocking our socks off, but they

1208
01:04:25,560 --> 01:04:27,680
are like just exceptional
values.

1209
01:04:28,000 --> 01:04:30,160
And I think this one still
belongs in that category.

1210
01:04:30,840 --> 01:04:33,640
Yeah, absolutely.
Like I, I think I would have

1211
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:43,360
been at like 2028, I want to say
before out of 40 for the taste

1212
01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:45,600
categories.
So yeah, I did.

1213
01:04:46,000 --> 01:04:47,680
Dude.
Elijah Craig is really, really

1214
01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:49,520
good.
It's not knocking my socks off

1215
01:04:49,520 --> 01:04:52,760
the way it is for you.
But if you want a classic

1216
01:04:52,760 --> 01:04:55,800
bourbon experience, something
that will give you everything

1217
01:04:55,800 --> 01:05:00,560
you want out of a bourbon Dude
for 35 bucks, Elijah Craig is so

1218
01:05:00,560 --> 01:05:03,960
so good.
Yeah, I think I may just be

1219
01:05:03,960 --> 01:05:06,200
colored by the fact that we're
also talking about, like, one of

1220
01:05:06,200 --> 01:05:09,480
my favorite movies here today.
So let's just carry these good

1221
01:05:09,480 --> 01:05:12,160
vibes back into our conversation
on Casablanca.

1222
01:05:12,160 --> 01:05:14,080
Brad, what do you say?
Let's get to it.

1223
01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:22,000
All right, that was Elijah
Craig's Small Batch, a 94 proof

1224
01:05:22,000 --> 01:05:25,200
bourbon that got a 40 out of 50
from us on average.

1225
01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:28,440
Brad, you need to stop
resisting.

1226
01:05:28,640 --> 01:05:30,480
It's a damn good whiskey for
what it is.

1227
01:05:30,520 --> 01:05:33,800
I.
I I would use the exact same

1228
01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:38,840
words to describe it, but not
give it a 41 1/2 out of 50.

1229
01:05:39,520 --> 01:05:43,120
The The numbers don't lie, my
friend, much like they don't lie

1230
01:05:43,120 --> 01:05:46,880
about this season's game, which
we call 2 facts and a falsehood.

1231
01:05:47,040 --> 01:05:53,560
Brad is going to try to stump
your ball. 2 are right and what

1232
01:05:53,560 --> 01:05:57,640
is wrong?
2 facts and a falsehood. 2 Facts

1233
01:05:57,640 --> 01:06:00,240
and a Falsehood is the part of
the show where Brad presents me

1234
01:06:00,240 --> 01:06:04,200
with three items as fact about
the making of this movie, one of

1235
01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:08,760
which is a complete lie and your
boy is doing terribly this

1236
01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:11,360
season.
Now we're coming off of a a

1237
01:06:11,360 --> 01:06:14,120
couple bad weeks for me,
including one where Zach

1238
01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:18,600
Johnston led me astray and I got
2 losses on that week because I

1239
01:06:18,600 --> 01:06:21,360
listened to our guest.
Vince, I know we're springing

1240
01:06:21,360 --> 01:06:22,400
this on you here.
You were.

1241
01:06:22,400 --> 01:06:25,640
We're playing a big game of two
truths and a lie, and we're

1242
01:06:25,640 --> 01:06:28,360
gonna tap you to give some
expertise here.

1243
01:06:29,200 --> 01:06:33,880
If if you and I decide on an
answer and I go with that, if I

1244
01:06:33,880 --> 01:06:36,120
win, I only get one win in the
in the win column.

1245
01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:39,560
But if I lose, I get 2 losses.
So there's a lot of pressure on

1246
01:06:39,560 --> 01:06:41,400
you to deliver here today, man.
Yikes.

1247
01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:43,240
OK, I'll see.
I'll do my best.

1248
01:06:43,240 --> 01:06:46,240
No promises, no refunds.
That's my personal motto.

1249
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:51,000
How slyly can you Google off
camera while Brad's reading

1250
01:06:51,000 --> 01:06:51,840
these?
Pretty good.

1251
01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:54,320
I mean, you'll probably see my
eyes moving around to the left.

1252
01:06:54,320 --> 01:06:55,800
Yeah, that's alright.
That'll be the tell.

1253
01:06:56,040 --> 01:06:57,560
It's weird.
Vince turned his camera off.

1254
01:06:57,560 --> 01:07:00,560
Real.
Quick, why does Vince keep

1255
01:07:00,560 --> 01:07:02,280
talking to Siri?
I don't understand what he's

1256
01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:05,880
like.
Brad, hit me with your two facts

1257
01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:09,400
and a falsehood.
All righty fact #1 Because the

1258
01:07:09,400 --> 01:07:11,840
film was made during World War
2, the production was not

1259
01:07:11,840 --> 01:07:15,360
allowed to film at an airport
after dark for security reasons.

1260
01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:18,800
Instead it used a sound stage
with a small cardboard cut out

1261
01:07:18,800 --> 01:07:22,160
airplane and forced perspective
to give the illusion that the

1262
01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:24,880
plane was full-sized.
They used little people to

1263
01:07:24,880 --> 01:07:27,600
portray the crew preparing the
plane for take off.

1264
01:07:29,040 --> 01:07:34,240
Fact #2 The piano Julie Wilson
played as Sam on set was rented

1265
01:07:34,240 --> 01:07:37,960
from a Los Angeles Music Hall
for $25.

1266
01:07:37,960 --> 01:07:41,040
A week after filming ended,
Warner Bros sold it off at

1267
01:07:41,040 --> 01:07:45,080
auction for a negligible sum.
Decades later, however, the same

1268
01:07:45,080 --> 01:07:47,840
piano resurfaced in a private
collection and was authenticated

1269
01:07:47,840 --> 01:07:51,720
by a surviving prop master and
eventually sold at Sophie's for

1270
01:07:51,720 --> 01:07:56,040
2.3 million.
Fact #3 The difference in height

1271
01:07:56,040 --> 01:07:59,360
between Humphrey Bogart and
Ingrid Bergman changes

1272
01:07:59,360 --> 01:08:01,680
throughout the film.
This is because Bergman was

1273
01:08:01,680 --> 01:08:04,400
actually one to two inches
taller than Bogart.

1274
01:08:04,760 --> 01:08:07,520
To create the illusion that it
was vice versa, Michael Curtis

1275
01:08:07,520 --> 01:08:10,600
had Bogart stand on boxes and
sit on pillows and some shots,

1276
01:08:10,800 --> 01:08:14,520
or had Bergman slouched down as
when she sits on the couch in

1277
01:08:14,520 --> 01:08:16,840
the franc for your thoughts
scene.

1278
01:08:16,920 --> 01:08:19,640
All right, Vince, I'm going to
give you my initial thoughts and

1279
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:24,080
tell me if I'm crazy.
I've I've heard the anecdote

1280
01:08:24,080 --> 01:08:28,359
from fact number one about the
little people and the plane 100

1281
01:08:28,359 --> 01:08:29,520
times.
So like I know that.

1282
01:08:30,080 --> 01:08:31,760
That's where they got the word
deplane.

1283
01:08:31,760 --> 01:08:37,279
Deplane.
Like it's I don't know how true

1284
01:08:37,279 --> 01:08:38,800
it really is, but it's Hollywood
lore.

1285
01:08:38,800 --> 01:08:44,160
So like, and know that it's in
the IMDb facts on this #3 I also

1286
01:08:44,160 --> 01:08:47,120
know that they had Bogart stand
on boxes like throughout this

1287
01:08:47,120 --> 01:08:49,960
movie.
So it it kind of, I want to

1288
01:08:49,960 --> 01:08:54,479
circle #2 as the falsehood.
But I also know that this is a

1289
01:08:54,479 --> 01:08:58,000
movie where like yes, a prop
from this movie could fetch

1290
01:08:58,000 --> 01:09:01,319
$2,000,000 at Sotheby's.
So I don't know man, where are

1291
01:09:01,319 --> 01:09:03,760
you on this one?
Yeah, 2 sounds plausible, but

1292
01:09:03,760 --> 01:09:07,120
one and three I'm like 90% sure.
I'm kind of in the same spot.

1293
01:09:07,120 --> 01:09:09,840
Brad's smiling, and usually when
Brad's smiling, it means that

1294
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:12,720
he's gotten us somewhere.
Now there have been a few.

1295
01:09:12,720 --> 01:09:15,800
I was just thinking about Zach
last.

1296
01:09:15,800 --> 01:09:18,560
Week you shut your mouth, Sir.
Now.

1297
01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:22,800
There have been a few instances
where Brad has snuck in like a

1298
01:09:22,800 --> 01:09:27,520
clause into a sentence that was
incorrect, and I'm wondering if

1299
01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:30,319
it was true.
If if if she's only like 2

1300
01:09:30,319 --> 01:09:33,200
inches taller than him, or if
it's actually if the exact

1301
01:09:33,200 --> 01:09:34,840
amount is actually like more or
less.

1302
01:09:34,920 --> 01:09:38,479
I will defend my honor here.
I'm usually not that petty.

1303
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:43,399
Usually, usually every now and
then, the pettiness creeps

1304
01:09:43,399 --> 01:09:46,240
through.
Brad, I, I just my gut reaction

1305
01:09:46,240 --> 01:09:49,200
said 2 was the falsehood.
I'll go ahead and lock into as

1306
01:09:49,200 --> 01:09:52,560
the falsehood here and just hope
and pray that I claw back one

1307
01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:56,800
victory.
Bob, you are 100% correct.

1308
01:09:56,800 --> 01:10:02,760
So I've I made-up the piano fact
and then I looked up to thank

1309
01:10:02,760 --> 01:10:03,760
you.
I appreciate that.

1310
01:10:04,920 --> 01:10:08,240
I looked up to see if it
actually had been sold.

1311
01:10:09,160 --> 01:10:15,800
The Flashback piano was sold for
$602,000 in 2012.

1312
01:10:16,400 --> 01:10:25,440
The actual Rick's Cafe piano was
sold in 2014 for $3.413 million.

1313
01:10:25,760 --> 01:10:32,000
That's insane, man, that's
insane. 3.4 mil all.

1314
01:10:32,680 --> 01:10:34,040
Right.
Well, Zach, I'm not paying.

1315
01:10:34,320 --> 01:10:35,640
For a piano, but that's just
sweet.

1316
01:10:37,400 --> 01:10:39,880
Zach Johnson, if you're
listening, we are doing the work

1317
01:10:39,880 --> 01:10:43,880
here to dig out of the hole that
you clawed for us.

1318
01:10:43,880 --> 01:10:46,640
So Vince, thank you so much for
that guys.

1319
01:10:46,640 --> 01:10:50,120
I think that we should talk a
little bit about Claude Rains,

1320
01:10:50,160 --> 01:10:53,200
the only person really in in the
top tier of this cast that we

1321
01:10:53,200 --> 01:10:57,360
haven't talked about yet.
I just rewatched the end of Mr.

1322
01:10:57,360 --> 01:11:00,080
Smith Goes to Washington on TCMA
few weeks ago.

1323
01:11:00,160 --> 01:11:02,120
My kids were in the room and
they wanted to see it cause

1324
01:11:02,640 --> 01:11:04,280
like, I think they're at the age
where they're starting to know

1325
01:11:04,280 --> 01:11:06,600
what government is.
And so they're like still very

1326
01:11:06,600 --> 01:11:08,920
idealistic and they're like,
wow, this is how it works.

1327
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:13,040
And, and watching Claude Raines
in that movie, I'm just like, Oh

1328
01:11:13,040 --> 01:11:16,000
my gosh.
Like I know that he's regarded

1329
01:11:16,000 --> 01:11:19,640
as one of the all time best
character actors and supporting

1330
01:11:19,640 --> 01:11:25,840
actors, but damn it if he's just
not an S tier Hollywood actor

1331
01:11:26,160 --> 01:11:30,240
that doesn't get the credit.
I was trying to figure, yeah,

1332
01:11:30,240 --> 01:11:32,200
one of my main questions, you
asked the question of like, who

1333
01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:36,880
would you recast Bogart with?
And Claude Raines was like the

1334
01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:39,000
first guy that came to mind of
like, who was, who would I

1335
01:11:39,000 --> 01:11:43,360
recast as Claude Raines, by the
way, if I was going to recast

1336
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:46,560
Rick?
I feel like if you just like,

1337
01:11:46,560 --> 01:11:49,200
levelled up his acting a little
bit, I feel like Gerard Butler

1338
01:11:49,200 --> 01:11:51,600
could, could, could do, could do
Rick Boy.

1339
01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:55,160
I kind of want to see Gerard
Butler play that role for

1340
01:11:55,160 --> 01:11:57,320
whatever reason 'cause he's a
guy that always looks on.

1341
01:11:57,440 --> 01:12:00,720
Levelling up his acting?
Yeah, give, give, give me Gerard

1342
01:12:00,720 --> 01:12:03,000
Butler at current acting levels.
Let's see 'cause.

1343
01:12:03,000 --> 01:12:06,480
It's like he's not a good actor.
Like he's not a great actor.

1344
01:12:06,480 --> 01:12:09,000
I would say he's a he's a OK
actor, but he always looks

1345
01:12:09,000 --> 01:12:11,480
hungover and I kind of love that
about him.

1346
01:12:12,040 --> 01:12:14,200
Yep.
But Claude Rains, like there's

1347
01:12:14,280 --> 01:12:18,800
there's got to be like a lot of
people that could play that like

1348
01:12:18,840 --> 01:12:24,000
obsequious weasel character.
And, and The thing is like, he's

1349
01:12:24,000 --> 01:12:27,680
just enough of like a dandy and
and brings like just a slight

1350
01:12:27,680 --> 01:12:30,000
effeminate thing to everything
he does.

1351
01:12:30,000 --> 01:12:33,760
Where like, and Mr. Smith goes
to Washington, he is like the

1352
01:12:33,760 --> 01:12:37,600
entrenched Eastern Seaboard
senator that has the

1353
01:12:37,600 --> 01:12:40,200
transatlantic accent and it
makes perfect sense there.

1354
01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:43,200
And here he's playing like the
French philanderer.

1355
01:12:43,480 --> 01:12:46,240
And you're like, yeah, like I I
totally buy it here as well

1356
01:12:46,240 --> 01:12:48,680
because he has this mannered
thing about him.

1357
01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:52,360
I just, I don't know who it
would be in today's Hollywood,

1358
01:12:52,360 --> 01:12:53,560
Brad.
I know who it is.

1359
01:12:53,840 --> 01:12:55,600
Who?
Stanley Tucci.

1360
01:12:57,720 --> 01:13:01,200
I could.
I think Stanley could nail that.

1361
01:13:01,200 --> 01:13:06,920
I could see that.
It's like, but Stanley Tucci is

1362
01:13:08,040 --> 01:13:12,000
he's an ethnic white, you know,
like he's like, like he and I

1363
01:13:12,000 --> 01:13:15,320
can say that as an Italian and
Armenian person, like, you know,

1364
01:13:16,440 --> 01:13:22,600
like we don't object when when
ethnic whites get cast as other

1365
01:13:22,600 --> 01:13:24,680
ethnic whites.
Like sure.

1366
01:13:24,680 --> 01:13:29,960
Like no one, no one objects to
no one objects to what's his

1367
01:13:29,960 --> 01:13:31,960
name?
Adam Driver playing Italian for

1368
01:13:31,960 --> 01:13:36,120
the 50th because why not?
Like he reads ethnic white even

1369
01:13:36,120 --> 01:13:39,400
even though he's not like I, I
don't know.

1370
01:13:39,760 --> 01:13:42,680
I, I don't, Yeah.
Claude Raines doesn't read

1371
01:13:42,680 --> 01:13:46,200
ethnic white to me in that way
that like some of our cherished

1372
01:13:46,200 --> 01:13:48,800
ethnic whites do like.
And Stanley Tucci is definitely

1373
01:13:48,800 --> 01:13:51,640
on like the list of cherished
ethnic whites.

1374
01:13:51,640 --> 01:13:53,920
I think that's that we need to
just leave the conversation

1375
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:55,680
right there.
That needs to be the last word.

1376
01:13:58,280 --> 01:14:02,720
Sorry, I'm going to retitle this
episode, this episode, Vince

1377
01:14:02,720 --> 01:14:05,720
Mancini on ethnic whiteness and
just see.

1378
01:14:05,720 --> 01:14:08,000
We change this here.
We can already podcast.

1379
01:14:10,240 --> 01:14:10,960
Oh, man.
All right.

1380
01:14:10,960 --> 01:14:13,680
When we were on break, I asked
the guys, what do we still need

1381
01:14:13,680 --> 01:14:15,520
to talk about?
And Vince said, you know,

1382
01:14:15,520 --> 01:14:17,760
phrenology.
And then he also said, let's

1383
01:14:17,760 --> 01:14:20,320
talk about the ending of the
movie, because he has.

1384
01:14:20,320 --> 01:14:23,200
Some stuff categorizing everyone
racially.

1385
01:14:23,560 --> 01:14:24,720
Sure.
I was like, what about the

1386
01:14:24,720 --> 01:14:27,840
ending?
I want to turn the floor over to

1387
01:14:27,840 --> 01:14:31,040
you because it sounds like this
may be hot take #2 from you

1388
01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:33,040
today.
What did you want to get across

1389
01:14:33,040 --> 01:14:34,320
about the ending of the film,
Vince?

1390
01:14:34,320 --> 01:14:39,400
So no, it wasn't.
It's not a hot take so much as I

1391
01:14:39,400 --> 01:14:45,120
didn't realize that because of
the the codes that were in place

1392
01:14:45,120 --> 01:14:50,400
for films at the time, like
there was no situation in which

1393
01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:54,360
Ilsa could have left her husband
and gone off with Rick.

1394
01:14:54,360 --> 01:14:57,800
Like that was like that.
Like at the time, that was not a

1395
01:14:57,800 --> 01:15:00,440
possibility for the ending
'cause they couldn't show that

1396
01:15:00,440 --> 01:15:02,720
on film.
So like to me when I watch this

1397
01:15:03,440 --> 01:15:07,840
at a modern remove, like it
maybe there is a lot more

1398
01:15:08,040 --> 01:15:12,200
ambiguity or like, I don't know,
I, I didn't know what was going

1399
01:15:12,200 --> 01:15:15,800
to happen at the end.
So to me, like the ending sort

1400
01:15:15,800 --> 01:15:21,480
of comes as a twist that, you
know, Rick says, you know, you

1401
01:15:21,480 --> 01:15:24,840
got to go off with Laszlo.
Like, like, like it makes it a

1402
01:15:24,840 --> 01:15:27,320
great ending to me.
So I didn't realize that that

1403
01:15:27,320 --> 01:15:30,960
would have been expected or
predictable at the time.

1404
01:15:31,640 --> 01:15:35,680
Yeah, no, it's funny because I,
I was trying to watch this movie

1405
01:15:35,680 --> 01:15:39,760
this time just through Rick's
character arc perspective,

1406
01:15:40,400 --> 01:15:43,720
because it, it really isn't much
like he goes from being a

1407
01:15:43,720 --> 01:15:45,560
wounded person to doing the
right thing.

1408
01:15:45,640 --> 01:15:48,160
But when does the switch get
flipped?

1409
01:15:48,360 --> 01:15:50,160
I think is what I was looking
for in the movie.

1410
01:15:50,600 --> 01:15:52,360
And when you've seen it 50
times, right?

1411
01:15:52,360 --> 01:15:55,560
Like, it's, it's a lot easier to
to know where he's going with

1412
01:15:55,560 --> 01:15:58,920
that plan and who he's tricking
into going along with the plan

1413
01:15:58,920 --> 01:16:01,960
at the end of the movie.
So initially he tells Captain

1414
01:16:01,960 --> 01:16:06,040
Renault, Claude Raines, I'll
deliver Laszlo to you.

1415
01:16:06,040 --> 01:16:07,800
You can put him in a
concentration camp.

1416
01:16:07,800 --> 01:16:12,080
Let me run off with his wife, by
the way, Don't bring any other

1417
01:16:12,080 --> 01:16:15,280
Nazis around, like, just us, OK?
And he's like, all right, sure.

1418
01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:19,880
So then he tricks everybody in
the bar into thinking that he's

1419
01:16:19,880 --> 01:16:22,520
handing them over.
But then, surprise, surprise, he

1420
01:16:22,520 --> 01:16:25,400
pulls a gun on Claude Rains.
He's like, take us to the

1421
01:16:25,400 --> 01:16:27,120
airport.
And then they get to the

1422
01:16:27,120 --> 01:16:31,080
airport, and he surprises Ingrid
Bergman again by sending the two

1423
01:16:31,080 --> 01:16:33,600
of them off together.
And it's like, oh man, You hear

1424
01:16:33,600 --> 01:16:38,040
all these stories about how we
had both endings written and

1425
01:16:38,040 --> 01:16:40,800
even the people on set didn't
know which one we were going to

1426
01:16:40,800 --> 01:16:42,880
go with.
And, and the more I watched the

1427
01:16:42,880 --> 01:16:46,120
movie, a few things have been
made apparent that that is

1428
01:16:46,120 --> 01:16:48,680
complete BS.
One of them Vince being, yes,

1429
01:16:48,680 --> 01:16:51,760
the Hayes code just would not
have allowed that other ending

1430
01:16:51,760 --> 01:16:54,360
to ever happen.
But if you're paying attention

1431
01:16:54,360 --> 01:16:58,080
to Bogart's character arc, that
other ending couldn't have

1432
01:16:58,080 --> 01:17:00,200
happened anyway because like.
Yeah.

1433
01:17:00,200 --> 01:17:02,240
He's such a Dick through the
whole movie.

1434
01:17:02,680 --> 01:17:05,360
And you know, Brad said many
times, like, he's practically

1435
01:17:05,360 --> 01:17:10,880
called Ilsa a hooker many times.
He's just abused everybody

1436
01:17:10,880 --> 01:17:12,920
around him.
He sticks his neck out for

1437
01:17:12,920 --> 01:17:14,240
nobody.
And then what?

1438
01:17:14,240 --> 01:17:17,680
He's going to give up this
paragon of goodness to go to the

1439
01:17:17,680 --> 01:17:20,880
concentration camp and then run
off with his wife at the end of

1440
01:17:20,880 --> 01:17:22,560
the movie?
That would never happen.

1441
01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:26,600
Like, there's just no way this
movie can end any other way than

1442
01:17:26,600 --> 01:17:30,240
it does.
Well, I honestly go ahead, Rick,

1443
01:17:30,240 --> 01:17:33,040
are both like trying to be the
better man in this situation.

1444
01:17:33,040 --> 01:17:35,800
They're almost like competing
for who's going to be the better

1445
01:17:35,800 --> 01:17:37,760
man.
Like I, I feel like I, I could

1446
01:17:37,760 --> 01:17:43,440
see a world where Lazlo's like,
hey, you know, you guys clearly

1447
01:17:43,440 --> 01:17:46,560
had a thing like she, she
clearly like prefers you.

1448
01:17:46,560 --> 01:17:50,320
I don't want to lock her down.
I don't want to lock her down in

1449
01:17:50,320 --> 01:17:53,560
a forever relationship where
she's not 100% into it.

1450
01:17:53,680 --> 01:17:56,000
Like, I guess I could, I feel
like they could have sold that.

1451
01:17:56,000 --> 01:17:59,800
But yeah, I, I which.
Is the the American in Paris

1452
01:17:59,800 --> 01:18:02,320
ending Brad right like a. 100.
Percent.

1453
01:18:02,320 --> 01:18:04,960
He's just like, yeah, I can see
that You love Gene Kelly.

1454
01:18:04,960 --> 01:18:06,240
And then that's how the movie
ends.

1455
01:18:06,760 --> 01:18:11,200
I like, I like the idea of the
two of them, Bogart and Paul,

1456
01:18:11,200 --> 01:18:14,640
Hon Reed just arguing back and
forth like, no, you go, no, you

1457
01:18:14,640 --> 01:18:16,480
go.
And then she just sneaks off and

1458
01:18:16,480 --> 01:18:18,320
goes by herself.
And then that's how the movie

1459
01:18:18,320 --> 01:18:20,440
ends.
That, I think that's the that's

1460
01:18:20,440 --> 01:18:22,360
the plausible third ending that
we didn't get.

1461
01:18:22,400 --> 01:18:24,800
With with Claude Rains, the two
of them.

1462
01:18:25,160 --> 01:18:29,400
Yeah, but I feel like the, the,
the fact that I mean, you

1463
01:18:29,400 --> 01:18:32,680
usually see like these movies
that are regarded as these, you

1464
01:18:32,680 --> 01:18:35,760
know, pillars of the romantic
movie.

1465
01:18:36,040 --> 01:18:40,880
Usually the theme of all
romantic movies and ROM coms

1466
01:18:40,880 --> 01:18:44,040
and, and great love stories is
that love conquers all.

1467
01:18:44,040 --> 01:18:48,600
And like the, the entire sort of
point of Casablanca is like, no,

1468
01:18:48,600 --> 01:18:51,360
love doesn't conquer all.
There's there's some things that

1469
01:18:51,360 --> 01:18:57,000
are more important than that.
And that still feels novel even.

1470
01:18:57,880 --> 01:19:01,600
What did you say?
8083 years removed from when it

1471
01:19:01,600 --> 01:19:04,200
came out.
It's crazy that that still comes

1472
01:19:04,200 --> 01:19:07,360
off as novel, but it really
does, at least for me.

1473
01:19:07,360 --> 01:19:09,960
When I watch it, it's still
there's still it feels like a

1474
01:19:09,960 --> 01:19:12,880
surprise or A twist.
I mean, it makes me think about

1475
01:19:13,400 --> 01:19:16,480
Saint Augustine a little bit and
like properly ordered loves

1476
01:19:17,000 --> 01:19:18,680
that.
Like it's not that love doesn't

1477
01:19:18,680 --> 01:19:25,160
win out, it's love for something
greater than a relational love.

1478
01:19:25,880 --> 01:19:31,040
And I, I think that's what makes
the movie have eternal enduring

1479
01:19:31,040 --> 01:19:35,640
qualities is because as humans,
we kind of recognize that like,

1480
01:19:35,640 --> 01:19:41,320
yes, relational love is one of
the highest things we ought to

1481
01:19:41,320 --> 01:19:45,520
aspire towards, but there's
times in our life where duty and

1482
01:19:45,520 --> 01:19:49,840
responsibility calls us even
higher than that relational

1483
01:19:49,840 --> 01:19:51,040
love.
Right.

1484
01:19:51,040 --> 01:19:54,440
And it's and I feel like movies
that have staying power that

1485
01:19:54,440 --> 01:19:58,400
sort of stick with you have that
sort of note of ambiguity.

1486
01:19:58,400 --> 01:20:02,480
So like I go back and forth
between what you just said, you

1487
01:20:02,480 --> 01:20:09,440
know, about the different kinds
of love and the romance of a

1488
01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:13,280
romance of a relationship that
has a natural endpoint.

1489
01:20:13,280 --> 01:20:17,200
Like they're like, they have
this romance and it means a lot

1490
01:20:17,200 --> 01:20:22,800
to them because it is.
It's it has an end point, like

1491
01:20:22,800 --> 01:20:26,280
they're always going to remember
this period, but it's also this

1492
01:20:26,280 --> 01:20:31,960
thing that they can't recapture.
And like that is part of romance

1493
01:20:31,960 --> 01:20:35,760
in some ways, that it's this
thing that like just can't last

1494
01:20:35,760 --> 01:20:39,720
for forever.
And again, I feel like, I feel

1495
01:20:39,720 --> 01:20:44,240
like that's another point that
still feels fresh even watching

1496
01:20:44,240 --> 01:20:47,840
it like 83 years later.
Well, and the the thing for me

1497
01:20:47,840 --> 01:20:52,800
that sticks out about, you know,
Rick's character arc is that he

1498
01:20:52,800 --> 01:20:58,040
sells the cafe and kills
Strasser and, and does all this

1499
01:20:58,040 --> 01:21:04,160
knowing that he's going to send
Laszlo and and Ingrid Bergman

1500
01:21:04,160 --> 01:21:07,920
off, that he's going to be stuck
there, Which shows that in his

1501
01:21:07,920 --> 01:21:10,840
mind, that conversation he has
with with Cloud Raines at the

1502
01:21:10,840 --> 01:21:13,600
end of like, hey, I think I'm
going to go back into gun

1503
01:21:13,600 --> 01:21:17,040
running or fighting for Free
France or, you know, whatever

1504
01:21:17,440 --> 01:21:20,200
they insinuate he's going to go
do has been in his mind.

1505
01:21:20,200 --> 01:21:28,120
Like now that I've received
consolation and closure around

1506
01:21:28,120 --> 01:21:31,400
this relationship with Ingrid
Bergman, I'm going to go back to

1507
01:21:31,400 --> 01:21:34,240
fighting for the things I
believe in because this wound

1508
01:21:34,240 --> 01:21:37,640
has been closed up.
And I, I think like that's the

1509
01:21:37,640 --> 01:21:40,560
thing that for me this time
around, I caught that I didn't

1510
01:21:40,560 --> 01:21:44,720
necessarily before was those
last few lines where he's like,

1511
01:21:44,720 --> 01:21:48,360
yeah, I'm going to head down and
get into a few scraps and, you

1512
01:21:48,360 --> 01:21:50,440
know, start start doing what I
used to do.

1513
01:21:50,960 --> 01:21:53,560
And that's like, that's the
power of the final line of the

1514
01:21:53,560 --> 01:21:54,720
movie.
I think this is going to be a

1515
01:21:54,720 --> 01:21:57,520
long and fruitful relationship
because they both are fighting

1516
01:21:57,520 --> 01:22:01,600
for something bigger than their
vices that have been displayed

1517
01:22:01,600 --> 01:22:04,440
throughout the movie.
Yeah, I mean, you know, it's

1518
01:22:04,440 --> 01:22:06,240
your point about ordered loves
too, right?

1519
01:22:06,240 --> 01:22:09,800
Like, this got him back in the
game and he could have gone off

1520
01:22:09,800 --> 01:22:11,880
with Ingrid Bergman and kind of
gotten back in the game that

1521
01:22:11,880 --> 01:22:15,520
way, gone back to the person
that he gone back to the person

1522
01:22:15,520 --> 01:22:17,400
he thought he was in Paris,
right?

1523
01:22:17,400 --> 01:22:20,440
But he recognized like a it's
the right thing to do.

1524
01:22:20,520 --> 01:22:24,360
And, and he even says at one
point, like when he saw her

1525
01:22:24,480 --> 01:22:28,000
willing to do whatever it took
to get those letters of transit

1526
01:22:28,000 --> 01:22:31,360
back like that unlocked for him,
like she really loves this guy.

1527
01:22:31,680 --> 01:22:34,360
And, and he deserves her way
more than I do.

1528
01:22:34,680 --> 01:22:38,120
And the thing that I'm made to
do that I should be doing is

1529
01:22:38,120 --> 01:22:39,920
what I was doing before, which
is helping the.

1530
01:22:39,960 --> 01:22:43,720
Being a gun runner.
I do love, there's a couple

1531
01:22:43,720 --> 01:22:46,440
things about the ending that I
love to your point, Brad, that

1532
01:22:46,440 --> 01:22:48,960
like they're just having this
casual like, yeah.

1533
01:22:48,960 --> 01:22:52,160
So what are you going to do now
after he he shot a man in the

1534
01:22:52,160 --> 01:22:56,280
heart 36 seconds earlier, and
he's just laying there bleeding.

1535
01:22:56,280 --> 01:22:59,080
And they're like, yeah, so
what's what's next for old

1536
01:22:59,080 --> 01:23:02,360
Humphrey Bogart?
Super casual conversation.

1537
01:23:02,920 --> 01:23:07,280
And then there's also this great
moment where he sends them off

1538
01:23:07,280 --> 01:23:10,800
on the plane.
Victor Laszlo shakes his hand

1539
01:23:10,800 --> 01:23:12,400
and says, like, welcome back to
the fight.

1540
01:23:12,760 --> 01:23:16,360
And he's like, yeah, yeah.
One more thing, I just need you

1541
01:23:16,360 --> 01:23:20,080
to know I banged your wife last
night, and I really need you to

1542
01:23:20,080 --> 01:23:23,000
understand.
And Victor Laszlo's like, OK, I

1543
01:23:23,000 --> 01:23:24,640
understand this is how things
work in war.

1544
01:23:24,640 --> 01:23:28,040
And he's like, no, no, no,
listen, she really wanted to

1545
01:23:28,040 --> 01:23:31,000
pretend she was.
She was in love and super hard

1546
01:23:31,040 --> 01:23:34,240
like she was.
Her leg was quivering that

1547
01:23:34,240 --> 01:23:37,760
entire time like it was it was
crazy, but I know it didn't mean

1548
01:23:37,760 --> 01:23:39,040
anything.
It was just listen.

1549
01:23:39,040 --> 01:23:41,840
I need you to understand.
It's just this animal sexual

1550
01:23:41,840 --> 01:23:45,440
thing that we have between us.
Like we just cannot keep our

1551
01:23:45,440 --> 01:23:48,960
paws off each other.
We're like practically connected

1552
01:23:48,960 --> 01:23:51,000
at the crotch.
And I just, I know, you know,

1553
01:23:51,000 --> 01:23:54,040
aside from just like the wetness
and the fluids that we shared,

1554
01:23:54,040 --> 01:23:57,640
like that is not the mature kind
of love that I know you guys

1555
01:23:57,640 --> 01:23:59,760
share.
So like you guys, you you

1556
01:23:59,760 --> 01:24:01,720
should, you should go off
together.

1557
01:24:02,360 --> 01:24:04,160
I know that I'm never going to
see you again.

1558
01:24:04,240 --> 01:24:07,440
This is not really necessary.
I just need you to know for my

1559
01:24:07,440 --> 01:24:10,320
own sake of just cleansing it,
getting it off my chest.

1560
01:24:11,200 --> 01:24:13,280
Best sex I've ever had.
Have a good.

1561
01:24:13,280 --> 01:24:16,640
Trip What?
What a Lay, What a?

1562
01:24:16,640 --> 01:24:18,760
Lay it.
Is, I mean, I like that it's

1563
01:24:18,760 --> 01:24:22,520
sort of this ode to personal
growth.

1564
01:24:22,560 --> 01:24:26,560
You know, like, like most movies
like this or most movies in

1565
01:24:26,560 --> 01:24:30,560
general, they sort of like the,
there's an idea of like

1566
01:24:30,560 --> 01:24:33,920
redemption and getting back to
the person that you always were

1567
01:24:33,920 --> 01:24:38,360
or that you that you're
individuality is like a

1568
01:24:38,360 --> 01:24:41,720
constant.
And this is kind of like cutting

1569
01:24:41,720 --> 01:24:44,760
against that in a little way
where he's like, he's he's

1570
01:24:44,760 --> 01:24:48,720
leaving this chapter of himself
behind in a way and he's OK with

1571
01:24:48,720 --> 01:24:50,320
that.
And it's like it's a kind of a

1572
01:24:50,320 --> 01:24:53,200
thing that you don't see in a
lot of movies, I would say.

1573
01:24:53,960 --> 01:24:56,240
Yeah, yeah.
And it's for me, it's not just

1574
01:24:56,240 --> 01:24:59,600
that, it's that he's also
recognizing like the the

1575
01:24:59,600 --> 01:25:03,800
chapters closed, but there's
actually somebody better for her

1576
01:25:03,800 --> 01:25:05,680
than me.
And I have to be mature enough

1577
01:25:05,680 --> 01:25:09,560
to recognize that specific thing
despite how badly I want that.

1578
01:25:10,000 --> 01:25:13,240
And that's that's a really
natural segue for me to get into

1579
01:25:13,280 --> 01:25:16,040
our last segment of the day,
which we call let's make it a

1580
01:25:16,040 --> 01:25:18,040
double.
We're near the end of the

1581
01:25:18,160 --> 01:25:21,680
episode, so thanks listening to
the film and Whiskey show.

1582
01:25:21,840 --> 01:25:24,000
Let's pair another film with
this one, even if it's

1583
01:25:24,000 --> 01:25:25,640
struggling.
It's the final segment of the

1584
01:25:25,640 --> 01:25:27,080
day.
Now let's make it a double.

1585
01:25:27,240 --> 01:25:29,800
Let's Make It a Double is the
part of the show where we pick a

1586
01:25:29,800 --> 01:25:33,040
movie to pair up with this one
to make the perfect double

1587
01:25:33,040 --> 01:25:35,520
feature.
Vince totally forgot to mention

1588
01:25:35,520 --> 01:25:36,840
this to you, so we'll let.
You go last.

1589
01:25:36,840 --> 01:25:39,920
Year totally forgot to come up
with an answer for this.

1590
01:25:40,160 --> 01:25:42,600
There's been some really good
ones thrown out here today.

1591
01:25:42,600 --> 01:25:45,480
Vince, you mentioned The Great
Gatsby earlier, and I think that

1592
01:25:45,480 --> 01:25:48,080
would be like a fantastic
pairing, kind of going the

1593
01:25:48,080 --> 01:25:50,040
opposite direction from this
one, though.

1594
01:25:51,360 --> 01:25:54,760
I think based on the theme that
we've hit on here of being a

1595
01:25:54,760 --> 01:25:58,880
grown up about love and
recognizing when closure needs

1596
01:25:58,880 --> 01:26:01,920
to happen and how you can't
recapture a moment in the past,

1597
01:26:02,240 --> 01:26:04,840
I started thinking, Brad, about
past lives, one of my favorite

1598
01:26:04,840 --> 01:26:08,680
movies, but to keep it more
chronologically close to this

1599
01:26:08,680 --> 01:26:11,920
one, I'm going to pair it up
with the other movie that we've

1600
01:26:11,920 --> 01:26:15,000
talked about on that subject,
and that is Brief Encounter, one

1601
01:26:15,000 --> 01:26:18,240
of our very favorite movies from
the World War 2 era.

1602
01:26:18,600 --> 01:26:22,840
Just a great romance movie in
which people have to be

1603
01:26:22,840 --> 01:26:25,640
grown-ups and recognize when a
relationship is over.

1604
01:26:25,640 --> 01:26:27,960
And I think it kind of hits
those same notes as Casablanca,

1605
01:26:27,960 --> 01:26:31,880
Brad.
Dude, I, I, I need to come back

1606
01:26:31,880 --> 01:26:36,320
to brief encounter that the, the
line where I think it's a

1607
01:26:36,320 --> 01:26:41,440
narration line where she says
like, it's so easy to lie when

1608
01:26:41,440 --> 01:26:46,400
you're so deeply trusted, so
easy and so very degrading.

1609
01:26:47,400 --> 01:26:49,360
Just that one has stuck with you
man.

1610
01:26:49,760 --> 01:26:52,360
Oh, what a great.
I think it's one of my favorite

1611
01:26:52,360 --> 01:26:55,480
lines of any film.
It's so freaking good.

1612
01:26:56,320 --> 01:27:01,760
Brief Encounter, good movie.
I am going to go in the

1613
01:27:01,760 --> 01:27:08,160
direction of prescient films
that were like really bold in

1614
01:27:08,160 --> 01:27:10,040
calling out the Nazis for what
they were.

1615
01:27:11,240 --> 01:27:14,360
I'm going to go with 1939's The
Great Dictator.

1616
01:27:16,360 --> 01:27:18,200
A movie that you didn't love, by
the way.

1617
01:27:18,520 --> 01:27:23,840
Not my favorite but still one of
my absolute favorite like gags

1618
01:27:23,840 --> 01:27:28,200
of all time.
With the the typewriter and he

1619
01:27:28,200 --> 01:27:32,760
says one word and she types for
like 2 minutes straight and then

1620
01:27:32,760 --> 01:27:35,960
he talks for like a minute
straight and she types 3 words.

1621
01:27:38,200 --> 01:27:40,640
Absolutely the greatest gags of
all time.

1622
01:27:41,200 --> 01:27:42,280
All right, Vince, you're up,
man.

1623
01:27:42,280 --> 01:27:43,720
Did you?
Think of something I can't.

1624
01:27:44,440 --> 01:27:48,040
I was about to say the great
Dictator and now I'm like lost

1625
01:27:48,680 --> 01:27:53,920
trying to think of like another
just like stridently anti

1626
01:27:53,920 --> 01:27:59,960
fascist film that's also great.
Like, there's not that many of

1627
01:27:59,960 --> 01:28:02,480
them, are there?
That's kind of sad, I.

1628
01:28:02,800 --> 01:28:03,680
Mean.
I'm sure there are.

1629
01:28:03,680 --> 01:28:07,480
I'm just not thinking of them
off the top of my head, man.

1630
01:28:08,640 --> 01:28:12,680
It's also, yeah, like the things
that stick out in my mind is,

1631
01:28:12,840 --> 01:28:19,520
you know, like that it was such
like a an anti fascist movie

1632
01:28:19,920 --> 01:28:22,560
that is also prescient like
that.

1633
01:28:22,560 --> 01:28:26,040
It came out at a time when that
was still like, an open

1634
01:28:26,040 --> 01:28:28,480
question.
Oh man.

1635
01:28:29,160 --> 01:28:30,720
Team America.
World Police.

1636
01:28:31,000 --> 01:28:32,640
Yeah.
There it is.

1637
01:28:33,080 --> 01:28:36,000
That's the one I don't know,
Vince, like I hey, I think

1638
01:28:36,000 --> 01:28:38,040
you're you're allowed to share
yours with Brad.

1639
01:28:38,040 --> 01:28:39,640
We've had the same one many
times.

1640
01:28:39,760 --> 01:28:43,840
But I do think that Gatsby would
be a fantastic pairing with

1641
01:28:43,840 --> 01:28:45,400
this.
Like just thematically.

1642
01:28:46,320 --> 01:28:48,480
Like when I think, yeah, like
the book for sure.

1643
01:28:48,480 --> 01:28:51,880
But like, does the movie hold up
to to to this one?

1644
01:28:51,880 --> 01:28:55,320
Probably for something like
Doctor Strangelove, yeah, you

1645
01:28:55,320 --> 01:28:58,000
know, a different war, but.
Vince, this is an audio based

1646
01:28:58,200 --> 01:28:59,200
format, man, you got to.
Pick.

1647
01:28:59,240 --> 01:29:00,920
I know I'm trying.
I'm trying to.

1648
01:29:00,920 --> 01:29:03,560
Well, like I had the, I had the
Great Dictator in mind, and now

1649
01:29:03,560 --> 01:29:05,040
I'm trying to think of another
one.

1650
01:29:06,160 --> 01:29:09,480
Yeah, I got nothing.
All right, so I'm, I'm going

1651
01:29:09,480 --> 01:29:11,840
with Brief Encounter.
Brad and Vince are both going

1652
01:29:11,840 --> 01:29:15,280
with The Great Dictator, which
would make just a really, really

1653
01:29:15,280 --> 01:29:19,600
good triple feature of movies
from that 1940 to 1942 range.

1654
01:29:20,120 --> 01:29:23,040
Guys, it's time for us to get
into final scores on Casablanca,

1655
01:29:23,360 --> 01:29:26,160
the kind of movie that it
doesn't seem necessary to talk

1656
01:29:26,160 --> 01:29:30,360
about final scores with.
But shockingly, back in season

1657
01:29:30,360 --> 01:29:35,600
1, Brad gave this movie a 9.5
out of 10, the lowest score

1658
01:29:35,600 --> 01:29:37,600
Casablanca has ever received
from anyone.

1659
01:29:38,480 --> 01:29:41,200
So I guess the real question
here, I'm giving it a 10.

1660
01:29:41,760 --> 01:29:45,560
Brad, have you come up to A10 or
are you still sitting at a sub

1661
01:29:45,560 --> 01:29:49,320
10 score here?
I have been thinking about it

1662
01:29:49,320 --> 01:29:53,200
all day.
I, I got up at 5:15 this

1663
01:29:53,200 --> 01:29:56,760
morning, starting it off with a
bang.

1664
01:29:57,600 --> 01:30:03,320
Yeah, I watched Casablanca and
I, I was thinking throughout

1665
01:30:03,320 --> 01:30:05,400
because, Bob, you and I would
both agree.

1666
01:30:05,400 --> 01:30:09,240
Like, for a movie to be 10 out
of 10, it doesn't have to be a

1667
01:30:09,240 --> 01:30:12,360
perfect movie because, like,
there is no such thing as a

1668
01:30:12,360 --> 01:30:15,960
perfect movie.
And so it really took me down

1669
01:30:15,960 --> 01:30:18,560
this rabbit hole throughout the
day, just percolating in my

1670
01:30:18,560 --> 01:30:25,560
brain of like, what makes a
movie a perfect movie for me, I

1671
01:30:25,560 --> 01:30:29,680
would say that Casablanca has a
few stumbles.

1672
01:30:29,680 --> 01:30:33,560
It has the flashback scene that
I don't love.

1673
01:30:34,080 --> 01:30:37,920
It has a few lines from Claude
Raines, especially early in the

1674
01:30:37,920 --> 01:30:43,200
film that feel very stilted and
like he he just kind of rushes

1675
01:30:43,200 --> 01:30:45,680
through his lines that I'm like,
you could have just had one more

1676
01:30:45,680 --> 01:30:47,760
take and he he probably would
have gotten it.

1677
01:30:48,880 --> 01:30:52,920
But aside from those things and
and Vince, like you said, a lot

1678
01:30:52,920 --> 01:30:56,400
of the setup at the start of the
film is kind of wooden and it's

1679
01:30:56,400 --> 01:30:59,440
the corn that you kind of want
to like spit out until you get

1680
01:30:59,440 --> 01:31:00,920
to the corn that you really
enjoy.

1681
01:31:02,840 --> 01:31:08,520
I think that the the eternal
enduring themes of what

1682
01:31:08,520 --> 01:31:13,440
heartbreak can do to a man, of
what closure can do to for

1683
01:31:13,440 --> 01:31:17,800
anyone, of fighting for
something larger than your own

1684
01:31:17,800 --> 01:31:21,120
personal desires.
I think this is a 10 out of 10,

1685
01:31:21,120 --> 01:31:23,160
Bob.
We did it.

1686
01:31:23,760 --> 01:31:27,280
Yeah.
Can I go back to make it a

1687
01:31:27,280 --> 01:31:29,040
double?
Sure.

1688
01:31:29,440 --> 01:31:33,440
I have I have answers now.
Speaking of not not knowing how

1689
01:31:33,440 --> 01:31:35,800
to deal with closure, Vince
Mancini, let's do it.

1690
01:31:35,840 --> 01:31:40,040
Exactly.
OK, so my choices on the subject

1691
01:31:40,040 --> 01:31:44,320
of sort of like the
temporariness of love and and

1692
01:31:44,320 --> 01:31:48,480
the idea of like having a
relationship that can only exist

1693
01:31:48,480 --> 01:31:50,640
in this one certain
circumstance.

1694
01:31:50,640 --> 01:31:52,360
And that's part of the beauty of
it.

1695
01:31:52,560 --> 01:31:56,920
I'm gonna go with eternal
sunshine and or call me by your

1696
01:31:56,920 --> 01:31:58,960
name.
I feel like they like those are

1697
01:31:59,320 --> 01:32:03,680
sort of about like romances that
can only exist in like a very

1698
01:32:03,680 --> 01:32:07,880
specific time or place.
And I feel like that is, you

1699
01:32:07,880 --> 01:32:12,160
know, if not the main theme of
Casablanca, like one of them.

1700
01:32:13,080 --> 01:32:18,880
And yes, this is easily a 10 out
of 10 for me. 10s across the

1701
01:32:18,880 --> 01:32:22,160
board from us here on film and
whiskey, but we like to know

1702
01:32:22,160 --> 01:32:25,480
what you guys think.
Is Casablanca an all time 10 out

1703
01:32:25,480 --> 01:32:27,680
of 10 for you?
How many times have you seen it?

1704
01:32:27,680 --> 01:32:29,880
That's what I'd like to know
because I feel like once people

1705
01:32:29,880 --> 01:32:33,880
see Casablanca, they become
repeat watchers of Casablanca.

1706
01:32:34,200 --> 01:32:38,360
You can let us know on any of
our social medias, Facebook X

1707
01:32:38,360 --> 01:32:42,320
Twitter, Instagram, TikTok at
Film Whiskey.

1708
01:32:43,080 --> 01:32:45,200
Or you can join the conversation
on our Discord.

1709
01:32:45,240 --> 01:32:48,240
We are on there every single day
talking to you guys, fans of the

1710
01:32:48,240 --> 01:32:50,400
Film Whiskey podcast.
If you want to join the

1711
01:32:50,400 --> 01:32:52,880
conversation, you can find a
link to our Discord at the end

1712
01:32:52,880 --> 01:32:55,040
of every single one of our show
notes.

1713
01:32:56,080 --> 01:32:58,680
We want to say thanks again to
Vince Mancini for joining us

1714
01:32:58,680 --> 01:33:00,880
today.
Vince, where can we find you?

1715
01:33:00,880 --> 01:33:02,120
What have you been working on
lately?

1716
01:33:03,200 --> 01:33:06,120
I will have by the time this
goes live.

1717
01:33:06,120 --> 01:33:10,160
I have a big piece in GQ about
the Smashing Machine

1718
01:33:10,440 --> 01:33:13,800
documentary, not the Dwayne
Johnson version.

1719
01:33:14,480 --> 01:33:18,520
Check that out and you can find
me at vincemancini.substack.com.

1720
01:33:19,040 --> 01:33:23,360
All of my movie reviews and
writings are there and my

1721
01:33:23,360 --> 01:33:27,400
podcasts are at
patreon.com/fraud Cast.

1722
01:33:27,400 --> 01:33:31,640
We do a prestige TV rewatch
podcast.

1723
01:33:31,920 --> 01:33:34,920
It started as Pod Yourself a
Gun, which was a Sopranos

1724
01:33:34,920 --> 01:33:38,080
rewatch, and we have since
rewatched The Wire and we are

1725
01:33:38,080 --> 01:33:42,200
currently on to Mad Men.
We're calling that season Mad

1726
01:33:42,200 --> 01:33:45,440
Yourself a Man, but that is at
patreon.com slash.

1727
01:33:45,880 --> 01:33:47,840
Oh man, I love it.
I'm looking forward to that GQ

1728
01:33:47,840 --> 01:33:51,800
article for sure next week,
Brad, we are getting into some

1729
01:33:51,800 --> 01:33:56,040
weird, dicey, controversial
territory as we look at the 1999

1730
01:33:56,360 --> 01:33:59,400
Best Picture winner American
Beauty.

1731
01:33:59,840 --> 01:34:03,560
So join us for that one.
But until then, I'm Bob Book.

1732
01:34:03,880 --> 01:34:06,880
I'm Brad G.
And we'll see you next time.

1733
01:34:30,040 --> 01:34:30,280
Music.