Taking Paternity Leave As A Founder | Luke Millar (father of 5, SVP Product & Eng at Medium)

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Luke Millar: You need some time
to yourself and you feel bad about

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it as a parent often, because it's
like any alone time is just more

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stress on your partner, right?

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Because it's like, Hey, I'm
going to go do this thing.

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And it's like, you're really going to
freaking leave me with five kids to go

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do your activity that you want to do.

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But you really have to be supportive
of one another to say like,

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yes, no, but you should do it.

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I got it.

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Go have some time by yourself.

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Adam Fishman: Welcome to startup dad,
the podcast, or we dive deep in the

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lives of dads, Who are also leaders
in the world of startups and business.

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I'm your host, Adam Fishman.

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And in today's conversation,
I sat down with Luke Millar.

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Luke is the SVP of product and
engineering at Medium, where you can

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discover stories, thinking, and expertise
from writers on just about any topic.

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He joined Medium after the
company he co founded, Projector,

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was Was acquired in 2021.

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He has been a technology leader at
shift, Twitter, and Microsoft, but

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most importantly, he's a husband
and the father of five kids.

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In our conversation today, we spoke
about how to structure and take paternity

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leave as a startup founder, how to build
individual relationships with each of your

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kids when you have so many of them, and
how he handled the transition to working

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from home with such a full household.

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We ended on an emotional topic, his
wife's recent battle with cancer.

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He shared candidly about how that has
become a big part of their parenting

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lives over the last few years and
how he's And the support systems

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that emerged to help them navigate.

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I appreciated how candid and
open Luke was on the show.

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And I think you will too.

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I would like to welcome Luke
Millar to the Startup Dad podcast.

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Luke, it is a pleasure
having you here today.

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Thank you for joining me.

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Thanks for having me.

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I'm excited.

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This is gonna be great.

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Yes.

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And as I learned, it
is Millar, not Miller.

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There's an A, not an E there.

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That's

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Luke Millar: correct.

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Everybody gets it wrong.

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Understandably.

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I, you know, really embrace it.

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I, it's funny.

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Cause I actually, at some point,
like if I'm looking at, if someone's

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looking up my name on a list, I tell
them Miller, because there's so much

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more quickly able to find my name.

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If I say Miller, then if I say Millar,
and then they say, how do you spell that?

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Everybody does it.

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Even me.

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Adam Fishman: Awesome.

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Well, I'm going to jump right in
today and go right to the meat of it.

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Luke, I have you on the show because
you are a technology executive.

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You work at Medium.

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You lead a bunch of very
important functions there.

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You also have five kids, ages
two and a half to twelve.

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That is a lot of children for a household.

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So you got a lot of them.

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Feels like enough.

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Yeah.

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Feels like enough.

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You have reached a critical mass
of children in your household.

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First thing I want to know is
what is a typical day look like

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in the Malar household with,
you know, five kids spaced.

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A decade apart from one another.

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Luke Millar: Yeah, it's pretty busy,
but I feel like we have it down

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right now, but because of school
and ages, it changes every year.

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So every year we have to refigure it out.

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So this year, my oldest daughter is 12.

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She's in sixth grade, so she
is at a middle school now.

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First year where it's like, Oh, we
really do have kids at multiple schools.

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So that's been an
adjustment for us this year.

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Then we have our next daughter is 10.

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She's in fifth grade.

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And then we have an eight year
old who's in second, a six

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year old who's in kindergarten.

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And then our son is almost three
now, but he's not doing any of those.

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He's at home all day.

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Uh, so the typical day is, you know,
you know, wake up in the morning,

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get the kids ready for school.

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Fortunately, the elementary school
and middle school are near each

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other and start around the same time.

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And so.

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We kind of split that just depending
on who is feeling up for it.

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But take the kids to school in the
morning, come home, get ready for the day.

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I work from home now, full-time,
full-time, remote at Medium.

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My wife also at home, full-time.

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And so even throughout the day
we kind of tag team a few things

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here and there, including.

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Things like even when it's time for
school pickup, usually my wife ends up

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doing that, but it depends on the day.

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And then, you know, in the afternoon, kids
are home from school, evening activities,

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sports, often it's driving kids places.

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And so if there's multiple at the
same time, we are both doing it.

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If it's only one, you know,
we kind of share that.

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And so pretty busy day, but the
thing that's really helped over the

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last couple of years is just being
able to be home and manage it that

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Adam Fishman: way.

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Yeah.

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And we're going to get into that a little
bit, but I want to go all the way back

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in time and just ask you a little bit
about what life was like growing up.

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Did you come from a big family?

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Do you have four or more
brothers and sisters?

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What was that life like?

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I

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Luke Millar: do.

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I have five siblings.

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I have four brothers and a sister.

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Great experience.

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I mean, we all are still really close.

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We get along well, we keep in touch
really regularly, pretty wide age gap.

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I mean, I think my oldest brother
is probably, I think he's 16

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years older than my youngest.

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And so like that is just a
completely different dynamic.

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So I came from a big family.

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Lisa also did, she has four
siblings and so also big family.

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And so for us getting started,
it was, it just felt like.

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I don't know.

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It was just kind of assumed
like, yeah, family, right?

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It's cool.

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Yeah.

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Makes sense.

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Tell me about your wife, Lisa.

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So she's from Seattle.

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Her family still lives there.

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We now live in California.

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We lived in Seattle.

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That's where we met.

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That's where we dated.

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We got married.

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We actually started our
family there and then moved to

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California about 10 years ago.

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I'm from the Bay Area.

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So it was kind of like, Moving
from one home to another, but she

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is an elementary school teacher.

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She taught second and fifth
grade for a long time.

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Did that, loved it.

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And then when we were talking about having
kids, you know, we had that conversation

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around, like, what are we going to do?

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How do we want to manage that?

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She really was excited about wanting
to be home with the kids and be

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like a full time part of their day.

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And so we talked through that.

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What does that look like?

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How's that going to work?

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How long do we do that for?

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Is that like forever or do we
do that for a couple years?

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What's, you know, and we kind of went into
it with this idea of, well, let's do it.

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We'll see where it goes.

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We can always decide later to change it.

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And now that was 12 years ago,
she's still at home full time.

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But now that our youngest is three
and we're for sure done having kids,

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the conversation for us now is like,
Hey, what is that going to look like?

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And that'll be.

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A new part of our family life is her
going back to work and teaching again,

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but should be really cool and exciting.

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Adam Fishman: So she's made up her mind.

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She's going to go back and teach again.

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I mean, I guess.

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You know, you've got five kids.

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She never really leave the
classroom when you've got that

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number of children in the house.

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So

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Luke Millar: you don't.

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And because she loves teaching and
kids anyway, like that was just

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her passion in the first place.

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She can't stay out of the classroom
anyway, you know, helping and volunteering

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in class for teaching lessons or
helping the teacher or whatever it is.

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So she's been always
really excited about that.

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And now that when our youngest starts,
I don't know if it'll be this next

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year, maybe the year after, but
when our youngest starts in school.

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On a regular basis.

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It's like, wait a second.

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What does that look like?

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Do you go back in, do you substitute for
a bit, like ease back into it or just

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jump right back into teaching full time?

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I don't know.

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We'll see.

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Adam Fishman: Cool.

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Well, that's very exciting.

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And the world does need.

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More veteran teachers, I
think, as I've observed myself.

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It's underappreciated.

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Luke Millar: I mean, one of the things
that we talked about for this is the

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idea of like, oh, well, you know, do you
keep teaching and we can get child care?

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Teachers don't get paid enough.

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It sucks.

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It's unfair.

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It's not great for society, but it
is just the reality where it's like

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it would be more expensive for her
to go to work and us pay for child

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care than for her to be at home.

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And so it's just like a real
decision on like math equation.

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Even it's not the only reason that you
decide to go back to work for sure.

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Like it's totally valid to
decide it anyway, even in that

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circumstance, but it does.

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Make it extra hard.

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Yeah.

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Adam Fishman: Childcare for five kids
too is, I mean, I know you live outside

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of the Bay area now, I think, but even
in the state of California, that's just

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like a crippling expense for most people.

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So yeah, never.

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Well, we're going to come back to
Lisa in a little bit, but first

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I wanted to ask you, uh, About
building a pro parent company.

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So you founded a company called
projector and as a founder, co founder,

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you have to define all of the systems.

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And by my calculation, you and Lisa
had at least two new ish babies

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while you were there at the company.

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I might, I tried to do a little reverse
engineering from LinkedIn and timetables

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and stuff, but what does it mean to
you to build a pro parent company?

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Luke Millar: When all of
that was starting, it was

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actually pretty, pretty tricky.

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Me and my co founders at the time,
they were a couple guys that I'd worked

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with at Twitter and had known before.

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And again, not necessarily
fathers, but in like, you know,

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similar stages of life, right?

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It's not like straight out of college
and I can, you know, be in an office.

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18 hours a day was just not where we were.

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It wasn't the vibe we
wanted for our company.

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And so early on, it was kind of, there
are a lot of conversations about what

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really does work life balance look like
at a startup at this stage of life.

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I went into it.

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And when I started Lisa was pregnant.

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We had just found out that she was
pregnant and we were going to have a

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kid and it was, it really was one of
those like, holy crap, all of these

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decisions that you just kind of take for
granted because your company and HR team

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decides them for you at some point of
like, what are the policies around this?

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It's like, I don't know, Luke,
what are the policies around this?

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Are we doing paternity leave?

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Like, what does that look like?

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How long do you get?

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I don't know.

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You know, how do we manage
things like health care?

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And do we really max out that
side of our company's budget

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to be able to support families?

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And we made that decision early on
that like, yeah, I think we have to the

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type of product that we were building.

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It really wasn't like, Hey, how
do we slap something together?

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It was something that
took like real craft.

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00:10:18,154 --> 00:10:22,410
And I think a lot of experience
and expertise that required some

241
00:10:22,410 --> 00:10:26,280
more, you know, senior talent,
whether it was engineers or

242
00:10:26,280 --> 00:10:27,660
designers or product thinkers.

243
00:10:27,990 --> 00:10:32,850
And so being able to hire a team
that, you know, was in later stages

244
00:10:32,870 --> 00:10:36,809
of family life or personal life and
knowing that, Hey, we got to build this

245
00:10:36,819 --> 00:10:41,280
into our culture from the beginning,
where there is real flexibility.

246
00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:46,930
And how you show up at work and how
does the company support you lots

247
00:10:46,930 --> 00:10:49,830
of conversations on that early on,
but it was really important to us.

248
00:10:49,830 --> 00:10:50,700
It was important to me.

249
00:10:50,739 --> 00:10:53,390
I mean, I was in the, you know,
right, right in the mix of it.

250
00:10:53,630 --> 00:10:55,049
And I'm glad we did.

251
00:10:55,050 --> 00:10:56,319
That was a really good experience.

252
00:10:56,319 --> 00:10:57,640
And it didn't mean that like.

253
00:10:58,050 --> 00:10:58,810
We didn't work a ton.

254
00:10:58,810 --> 00:11:02,699
We did, but just I think the
key is insane flexibility.

255
00:11:02,900 --> 00:11:04,449
That's the thing that
parents need the most.

256
00:11:04,459 --> 00:11:04,839
It's not

257
00:11:04,839 --> 00:11:06,050
Adam Fishman: just time.

258
00:11:06,409 --> 00:11:12,640
How have you benefited from that insane
flexibility in your life as a parent?

259
00:11:13,030 --> 00:11:14,160
It's things like,

260
00:11:14,190 --> 00:11:17,839
Luke Millar: you know, knowing that I have
to be the one to get the kids from school.

261
00:11:18,030 --> 00:11:21,810
Because of something that's come up,
you know, as a parent, you don't always

262
00:11:21,820 --> 00:11:25,180
feel well, parents get sick and it's
like, yeah, what happens when a parent

263
00:11:25,180 --> 00:11:26,970
sick and it's like, yeah, it sucks.

264
00:11:26,970 --> 00:11:31,360
It's really hard because your life
doesn't stop like everything keeps going.

265
00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:33,159
It's not like, hey, I'm not feeling well.

266
00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:35,589
I guess all the kids are going to
stay home from school so we can chill.

267
00:11:35,589 --> 00:11:37,989
It's like, no, you still have
to do all this stuff, you know?

268
00:11:37,989 --> 00:11:42,219
And so if Lisa has appointments or stuff
that she has to go to or if she, you

269
00:11:42,219 --> 00:11:45,279
know, and being able to say, I kept me
in the office or I need to leave early,

270
00:11:45,299 --> 00:11:46,739
I need to leave at lunchtime today.

271
00:11:46,739 --> 00:11:46,769
Right.

272
00:11:46,959 --> 00:11:48,890
Because of this thing
that's happening tonight.

273
00:11:48,980 --> 00:11:51,579
We have two kids with different
games on the other side of the city.

274
00:11:51,730 --> 00:11:52,910
I need to be able to go to that.

275
00:11:53,180 --> 00:11:57,900
And being able to make those decisions
and have the trust from your team and

276
00:11:57,910 --> 00:12:01,730
from your work to be able to make those
decisions and know that I'm not just

277
00:12:01,730 --> 00:12:05,465
like trying to take advantage by not
Being at work and not getting stuff done.

278
00:12:05,695 --> 00:12:07,215
But I do need this time right now.

279
00:12:07,245 --> 00:12:09,015
You know, I'll make up for
it later at some point.

280
00:12:09,834 --> 00:12:14,255
Adam Fishman: When you think about
your paternity leave from this company

281
00:12:14,255 --> 00:12:18,815
that you founded, what was paternity
leave like as a startup founder?

282
00:12:18,995 --> 00:12:23,074
Luke Millar: That was hard because
it wasn't obvious how long I should

283
00:12:23,085 --> 00:12:26,855
take before that with our previous
child, that was our fourth child,

284
00:12:26,855 --> 00:12:32,005
Caroline, who is now six before that
our previous child, Annalise, she was

285
00:12:32,005 --> 00:12:33,264
born when I was working at Twitter.

286
00:12:33,284 --> 00:12:34,734
And it was at a time
where Twitter was like.

287
00:12:35,030 --> 00:12:38,290
You get, I can't even remember what the
number was, 12 weeks of leave or whatever.

288
00:12:38,850 --> 00:12:40,150
And it's like, amazing.

289
00:12:40,180 --> 00:12:45,329
So, you know, that's just such a benefit
to be able to take that time off and

290
00:12:45,329 --> 00:12:49,580
know that your team has your back
as a company of three people at the

291
00:12:49,580 --> 00:12:54,029
time, when it's, we're still trying to
figure out what really are we building?

292
00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,890
Is this going to work and
say like, okay, I gotta go.

293
00:12:57,890 --> 00:12:59,780
I'm going to be gone
for the next six months.

294
00:13:00,185 --> 00:13:01,185
Because I'm having a baby.

295
00:13:01,185 --> 00:13:03,984
It just, it felt unrealistic.

296
00:13:04,025 --> 00:13:04,425
I don't know.

297
00:13:04,854 --> 00:13:07,275
And so trying to figure out
how long am I going to take?

298
00:13:07,375 --> 00:13:08,774
I went on paternity leave.

299
00:13:08,774 --> 00:13:12,765
I did take paternity leave, but I took
it not knowing how long I would be out.

300
00:13:13,285 --> 00:13:15,895
It was really just, we're
going to go see how this goes.

301
00:13:16,270 --> 00:13:19,850
when Lisa's ready, when
I'm ready, I'll come back.

302
00:13:19,890 --> 00:13:24,000
And maybe that starts with, I'll come
back by, I'll do some work online when

303
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,599
I can from home, or maybe it's, you
know, I'll come back into the office.

304
00:13:27,680 --> 00:13:30,880
And I think in the end, I actually
didn't take that much time off.

305
00:13:31,269 --> 00:13:37,150
Maybe it was four weeks, maybe, which
felt pretty quick, but it was, I don't

306
00:13:37,150 --> 00:13:40,020
know how it doesn't make any sense,
but I'm like having that fourth child.

307
00:13:40,020 --> 00:13:41,710
It was like, Hey, no, I think
we're, we're kind of okay.

308
00:13:41,750 --> 00:13:44,700
I can come back to work now, which seems.

309
00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:49,860
Adam Fishman: Yeah, I've done this before
and I've gotten some reps doing this, so,

310
00:13:50,350 --> 00:13:55,190
yeah, you mentioned four weeks feeling
quick, which it certainly does when you're

311
00:13:55,280 --> 00:14:00,319
on the parent side, when you put on your
founder hat, though, four weeks is like

312
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:06,800
a funding cycle or, you know, shipping
the product four times or 200 customer

313
00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:08,330
conversations or something like that.

314
00:14:08,330 --> 00:14:12,069
So it is really hard to strike that
balance, but it sounds like you were able

315
00:14:12,070 --> 00:14:14,120
to make it work and made a decision that.

316
00:14:14,810 --> 00:14:16,180
Felt right for your family.

317
00:14:16,180 --> 00:14:21,540
So how would you encourage other startup
founders who are in the like throws

318
00:14:21,540 --> 00:14:26,690
and intensity of building a company
and starting a family to think about.

319
00:14:27,624 --> 00:14:29,854
The choices and those kind of
trade offs that they're making.

320
00:14:30,604 --> 00:14:31,954
Luke Millar: I think
there's a couple of things.

321
00:14:31,964 --> 00:14:37,124
One is my co founders were
so supportive of it, right?

322
00:14:37,135 --> 00:14:40,285
They were the ones encouraging
me to take more time, not less.

323
00:14:40,574 --> 00:14:45,264
If I rushed back to work, it was because
I rushed back to work, not because they

324
00:14:45,264 --> 00:14:47,354
were frustrated that I wasn't at work.

325
00:14:47,684 --> 00:14:49,744
That at the end of the
day is the main thing.

326
00:14:49,755 --> 00:14:54,935
So if you're in that situation, that
is my number one, like advice is

327
00:14:55,164 --> 00:14:57,015
figure it out with your co founders.

328
00:14:57,290 --> 00:15:01,230
Or your co founder or your team, whatever
it is, what's really the expectation?

329
00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:03,230
How do you just get on
the same page about that?

330
00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:07,480
They were so happy to take on that
extra workload while I was out, whatever

331
00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:08,780
that was, whatever it looked like.

332
00:15:08,980 --> 00:15:13,300
And I forever appreciate that they did
that for me because it was important.

333
00:15:13,739 --> 00:15:17,119
The other part of it is parenting.

334
00:15:17,119 --> 00:15:17,869
It's not a sprint.

335
00:15:19,395 --> 00:15:20,545
It's a marathon.

336
00:15:20,574 --> 00:15:21,665
It goes on forever.

337
00:15:21,985 --> 00:15:26,375
And when you're working, you have to
figure out how to make it sustainable.

338
00:15:26,824 --> 00:15:29,255
It's not just, Hey, how do I get
through these next four weeks?

339
00:15:29,255 --> 00:15:30,635
Or how do I get through these three weeks?

340
00:15:30,635 --> 00:15:34,314
It really is a shift of
how do I make this so that.

341
00:15:34,910 --> 00:15:37,630
You know, a year from now,
I'm not completely burned out.

342
00:15:37,650 --> 00:15:40,000
And then my company falls
apart because I burned out.

343
00:15:40,370 --> 00:15:44,780
That is as important as the how do
I not burn out in these two weeks?

344
00:15:44,780 --> 00:15:48,689
Well, you know, we're in the hospital
because we just had a baby, you know, and

345
00:15:48,699 --> 00:15:51,639
thinking about both sides of those and
figuring out how to pace yourself a little

346
00:15:51,639 --> 00:15:56,170
bit and set up the structures at your
company so that you can and be flexible.

347
00:15:56,170 --> 00:16:00,770
I think that's the other half of it that
was really key to what worked for me.

348
00:16:01,110 --> 00:16:04,010
Adam Fishman: Yeah, that's really
interesting and solid advice there.

349
00:16:04,460 --> 00:16:10,340
This idea that, you know, most people
just think about what is my parental leave

350
00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:15,630
going to be even people who are building
companies for other parents like that,

351
00:16:15,630 --> 00:16:20,344
they're going to employ and they don't
think about actually the hardest part is.

352
00:16:20,575 --> 00:16:27,295
You know, the next 17 and a half years
after that first handful of months.

353
00:16:27,574 --> 00:16:30,255
So really, really good
advice for folks there.

354
00:16:31,164 --> 00:16:36,275
So I've had dads who have large
families on the show, although.

355
00:16:36,725 --> 00:16:37,995
I would say it's less common.

356
00:16:38,095 --> 00:16:41,495
I just don't know that many dads with
large families, but I'm meeting them.

357
00:16:42,115 --> 00:16:46,824
And they talk a lot about the importance
of one on one time with each kid.

358
00:16:47,485 --> 00:16:54,675
And I only having two children
myself still have a really hard time

359
00:16:54,724 --> 00:16:58,574
understanding how that is possible
when you have a lot more children.

360
00:16:59,054 --> 00:17:04,624
And so I'm curious how you build
individual relationships with each

361
00:17:04,624 --> 00:17:08,680
one of your Kids, and maybe that's
not one on one time, or maybe it is.

362
00:17:08,859 --> 00:17:09,599
How do you do it?

363
00:17:09,930 --> 00:17:10,790
Because I'm skeptical.

364
00:17:11,290 --> 00:17:11,600
Luke Millar: Yeah,

365
00:17:11,860 --> 00:17:11,990
Adam Fishman: me

366
00:17:11,990 --> 00:17:12,250
Luke Millar: too.

367
00:17:12,420 --> 00:17:13,390
It is really hard.

368
00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:16,579
The reason that I think it comes
up probably with people with a lot

369
00:17:16,579 --> 00:17:21,829
of kids is because the natural flow
of things is to not do that, right?

370
00:17:21,829 --> 00:17:25,579
Like, you kind of bucket your kids
into groups where it's like, so

371
00:17:25,579 --> 00:17:27,160
we have four girls and then a boy.

372
00:17:27,474 --> 00:17:27,795
Right.

373
00:17:27,835 --> 00:17:33,014
And they're all pretty evenly spaced, you
know, 12, 10, 8, 6, and then almost 3.

374
00:17:33,405 --> 00:17:36,935
But in our minds, it's really easy
for us to say, Oh, we have our older

375
00:17:36,935 --> 00:17:38,254
girls and we have the younger girls.

376
00:17:38,574 --> 00:17:38,824
Right.

377
00:17:38,824 --> 00:17:41,794
And you think of them
in these groups, right?

378
00:17:41,824 --> 00:17:44,594
And you plan activities
based off of these groups.

379
00:17:44,955 --> 00:17:45,725
And that's fine.

380
00:17:45,735 --> 00:17:48,825
Like you have to be able to strategize.

381
00:17:48,835 --> 00:17:51,925
Like how do you get by day
to day in terms of just the

382
00:17:51,925 --> 00:17:53,725
logistics of getting stuff done?

383
00:17:53,925 --> 00:17:55,095
How do you split the workload?

384
00:17:55,105 --> 00:17:56,004
Those sorts of things.

385
00:17:56,054 --> 00:17:57,475
You just kind of naturally do it.

386
00:17:57,855 --> 00:18:00,504
But you to be a good parent, you have to.

387
00:18:01,159 --> 00:18:04,689
Intentionally push back on that a
bit and understand because it would

388
00:18:04,699 --> 00:18:10,129
be really easy if you're not careful
to go, you know, four days and say,

389
00:18:10,559 --> 00:18:15,529
have I even had a conversation with
Caroline this week, you know, and that

390
00:18:15,699 --> 00:18:17,679
sounds horrible, but it is really easy.

391
00:18:17,679 --> 00:18:20,370
The more kids you have, the
easier that becomes where that

392
00:18:20,370 --> 00:18:21,229
doesn't mean I didn't see her.

393
00:18:21,229 --> 00:18:23,679
That didn't mean that doesn't mean
I didn't, you know, help her get

394
00:18:23,679 --> 00:18:24,999
ready for bed and put her in bed.

395
00:18:25,009 --> 00:18:29,650
But Did I spend any time like was there
real time spent with her this week

396
00:18:29,939 --> 00:18:35,550
and thinking about that and trying to
figure out how to apply like changes

397
00:18:35,559 --> 00:18:40,659
to our structure has really helped
us a lot and what that looks like.

398
00:18:40,670 --> 00:18:41,599
It's like, how do you do it?

399
00:18:41,599 --> 00:18:44,905
And it's like, You just have to carve
out time and it can be anything.

400
00:18:44,915 --> 00:18:47,505
It doesn't have to be, Hey,
we have meaningful time.

401
00:18:47,505 --> 00:18:50,174
We're going to sit down and we're going
to stare at each other across the table

402
00:18:50,174 --> 00:18:51,805
and have a meaningful conversation.

403
00:18:51,815 --> 00:18:54,634
That's not the point, but like,
Hey, I need to go to the store

404
00:18:54,634 --> 00:18:56,045
because we need to get groceries.

405
00:18:56,419 --> 00:19:01,879
Can I take one kid with me and just have
that, you know, an hour of us going out

406
00:19:01,879 --> 00:19:05,759
together, spending the afternoon together,
talking about different things as we

407
00:19:05,759 --> 00:19:10,579
do this activity together and kind of,
you know, just taking turns of who do

408
00:19:10,580 --> 00:19:13,509
you do those sorts of things with don't
always just go to the person that's going

409
00:19:13,509 --> 00:19:17,680
to be the most helpful or the easiest
to come along, but like intentionally

410
00:19:17,810 --> 00:19:21,809
include everyone in those types of
activities, those sorts of things, as

411
00:19:21,819 --> 00:19:25,839
you make time for those, they become
really meaningful and fun opportunities.

412
00:19:26,194 --> 00:19:28,914
To be able to spend time with people
where I think it's pretty natural to

413
00:19:28,914 --> 00:19:30,404
say, I'm going to go to the store.

414
00:19:30,404 --> 00:19:31,985
Can I please have some alone time?

415
00:19:31,985 --> 00:19:32,645
And it's like, no, no, no.

416
00:19:32,645 --> 00:19:32,844
Yeah.

417
00:19:32,854 --> 00:19:35,594
Have some alone time, but maybe with
one kid, that's your alone time.

418
00:19:37,085 --> 00:19:41,164
Adam Fishman: When you have five
kids, one, maybe even two kids with

419
00:19:41,164 --> 00:19:43,084
you is the equivalent of alone time.

420
00:19:43,324 --> 00:19:44,395
It's like, wow, it's so.

421
00:19:44,850 --> 00:19:45,730
Much quieter.

422
00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,860
I only have one of you to be
responsible for right now.

423
00:19:48,870 --> 00:19:49,140
My

424
00:19:49,140 --> 00:19:52,580
Luke Millar: daughter was at camp last
week, and we were in our kitchen, and

425
00:19:52,580 --> 00:19:55,390
it's like, it's so quiet this week.

426
00:19:56,129 --> 00:19:58,969
And it's like, it's so funny,
because we have four kids at home.

427
00:19:58,980 --> 00:19:59,220
Right.

428
00:19:59,220 --> 00:20:01,820
But like, you know, even just one less.

429
00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:04,020
Instantly, it's like, Whoa, wow.

430
00:20:04,050 --> 00:20:05,000
So, so light,

431
00:20:05,020 --> 00:20:05,520
Adam Fishman: so easy.

432
00:20:05,890 --> 00:20:09,420
So last couple of years,
transition to working from home.

433
00:20:09,430 --> 00:20:12,290
You have an army of children
in your household and now

434
00:20:12,290 --> 00:20:13,490
you need to work from home.

435
00:20:14,070 --> 00:20:14,990
What do you do?

436
00:20:15,110 --> 00:20:20,229
What are the systems that you put
in place or set up or, you know,

437
00:20:20,700 --> 00:20:25,299
how did you stay productive when you
have so much going on at your house?

438
00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:26,950
Like everyone

439
00:20:26,950 --> 00:20:27,350
Luke Millar: else.

440
00:20:27,370 --> 00:20:29,320
I mean, it wasn't a choice, right?

441
00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:31,270
Like I started working from home because.

442
00:20:32,555 --> 00:20:36,435
And it was, you know, initially really
hard because not only was I working

443
00:20:36,435 --> 00:20:40,855
from home, but the kids were doing
school at home and it was just insane.

444
00:20:40,855 --> 00:20:43,774
And it's easy to forget
how crazy that period was.

445
00:20:43,775 --> 00:20:46,195
And I'm not sure that there's any like.

446
00:20:47,135 --> 00:20:52,185
Useful takeaways from that period to
now it was its own thing, but you fast

447
00:20:52,185 --> 00:20:56,645
forward to today and you know, still
working from home and having kids at home.

448
00:20:56,655 --> 00:20:58,414
I think there's a few
things that I've done.

449
00:20:58,644 --> 00:21:03,654
One is it was really important to
me to have a room that is an office.

450
00:21:04,375 --> 00:21:08,005
The luxury to do that, I
understand like not everyone can.

451
00:21:08,075 --> 00:21:11,495
Part of, you know, the reason
that last year when we left the

452
00:21:11,495 --> 00:21:13,955
Bay Area was because of that.

453
00:21:13,965 --> 00:21:15,645
It was like, hey, how
do we have more space?

454
00:21:15,675 --> 00:21:20,065
If I'm going to be home, if kids are going
to be home, kids are getting bigger and

455
00:21:20,075 --> 00:21:21,734
older, like, how do we have more space?

456
00:21:21,734 --> 00:21:22,475
We need more space.

457
00:21:22,664 --> 00:21:25,745
So being able to have my own room
that is an office where I can close

458
00:21:25,745 --> 00:21:27,595
the door was really important.

459
00:21:27,825 --> 00:21:28,695
Seems simple, but.

460
00:21:29,010 --> 00:21:34,570
Wasn't I think also being able to have
just like some ground rules for like the

461
00:21:34,570 --> 00:21:38,439
kids understanding like, no, you can't
just barge in on me when I'm at work.

462
00:21:38,500 --> 00:21:38,879
It's fine.

463
00:21:38,900 --> 00:21:39,899
That doesn't mean I don't love you.

464
00:21:39,900 --> 00:21:42,250
Doesn't mean I don't want to see
you, but you can't just barge in.

465
00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:43,470
It's actually really hard.

466
00:21:43,470 --> 00:21:47,209
You can see in my background right
now, my door has a window on it, which

467
00:21:47,219 --> 00:21:49,479
actually isn't great for that because it.

468
00:21:49,660 --> 00:21:53,100
Just even if they don't barge in,
they like to peek in, which is

469
00:21:53,110 --> 00:21:54,570
fine, but can still be distracting.

470
00:21:54,850 --> 00:21:58,070
I would say the benefits, though, the
other part that has been really good

471
00:21:58,070 --> 00:22:03,499
that kind of counteracts it is the idea
that, you know, if I have 15 minutes

472
00:22:03,500 --> 00:22:09,629
between calls or whatever, I can go out
and see the family for a few minutes.

473
00:22:10,144 --> 00:22:13,554
And it even like re energizes me
back for whatever it is I'm going

474
00:22:13,554 --> 00:22:15,044
to go back to at work, right?

475
00:22:15,044 --> 00:22:18,254
To be able to take those short breaks,
even if it's just for a second to

476
00:22:18,254 --> 00:22:21,505
say, you know, say, hi, the kids
are home from school, check in.

477
00:22:21,515 --> 00:22:22,145
How was that?

478
00:22:22,405 --> 00:22:22,675
Okay.

479
00:22:22,675 --> 00:22:22,824
Yeah.

480
00:22:22,824 --> 00:22:24,294
I got to go back to work for a little bit.

481
00:22:24,305 --> 00:22:25,885
You know, I'll see you in a few hours.

482
00:22:26,324 --> 00:22:27,634
That's been really good.

483
00:22:27,754 --> 00:22:32,165
You know, being able to be close to the
school so that if there's an activity

484
00:22:32,165 --> 00:22:35,955
or a performance that I can jump out
to that, I can block off an hour on

485
00:22:35,955 --> 00:22:37,394
my calendar and jump out to that.

486
00:22:37,644 --> 00:22:38,574
If I need to.

487
00:22:39,909 --> 00:22:42,449
And then the other part of it is
when I was working in an office,

488
00:22:42,499 --> 00:22:44,100
I was never home for dinner.

489
00:22:44,835 --> 00:22:48,225
I never had dinner with my family
before, you know, Lisa would

490
00:22:48,235 --> 00:22:49,715
do that every single night.

491
00:22:49,955 --> 00:22:54,074
It was always a huge stress on her,
not just like making the dinner,

492
00:22:54,074 --> 00:22:56,944
but then sit down and like, try to
have a dinner with all the kids,

493
00:22:56,944 --> 00:22:58,845
Adam Fishman: quarterback the chaos I

494
00:22:58,845 --> 00:22:59,524
Luke Millar: just, yeah.

495
00:22:59,635 --> 00:23:04,225
But ever since being able to work from
home, I'm home for dinner every night and

496
00:23:04,245 --> 00:23:09,355
that has been incredible and not because
I mean, sure dinner, but like just being

497
00:23:09,355 --> 00:23:11,385
able to sit down and have that time where.

498
00:23:11,645 --> 00:23:16,215
You know, before bedtime, before
things, you know, devolve into mayhem

499
00:23:16,524 --> 00:23:19,504
to be able to sit down and like
have some time as a family every

500
00:23:19,504 --> 00:23:20,705
day, we didn't get that before.

501
00:23:20,935 --> 00:23:23,365
So there's been some real pros
and cons for the younger kids.

502
00:23:23,365 --> 00:23:26,285
It's really hard to get them
to understand that, like, I'm

503
00:23:26,285 --> 00:23:27,465
home, but you can't bother me.

504
00:23:27,820 --> 00:23:28,100
Yeah,

505
00:23:28,180 --> 00:23:28,540
Adam Fishman: I don't know.

506
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:28,990
It's fine.

507
00:23:29,010 --> 00:23:30,090
You got to kind of be okay with that.

508
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:32,410
So you said you moved relatively recently.

509
00:23:32,410 --> 00:23:36,770
So now you have this office
and closed door with a glass

510
00:23:36,770 --> 00:23:38,350
so people can still peek in.

511
00:23:38,419 --> 00:23:44,820
Did you ever have a like a BBC dad
moment where a kid busted in on you?

512
00:23:45,209 --> 00:23:49,229
Maybe before you had the sanctity of
an office or anything like that, like

513
00:23:49,229 --> 00:23:54,205
an awkward pseudo embarrassing Work
from home dad moment all the time

514
00:23:54,305 --> 00:23:55,415
Luke Millar: my two year old.

515
00:23:55,475 --> 00:23:59,904
It just has no concept of it
Sure, the thing that's funny is I

516
00:23:59,904 --> 00:24:01,555
usually try to like lock my door.

517
00:24:01,825 --> 00:24:05,334
Yeah, sometimes and I don't always I'm
not great about it Especially if I'm gonna

518
00:24:05,335 --> 00:24:09,590
be in like meetings and conversations But
there have been times for sure where, you

519
00:24:09,590 --> 00:24:14,870
know, in whatever important conversations
and just burst through the door, but not

520
00:24:14,870 --> 00:24:19,710
just burst through the door, but like,
you can see clearly running away from Lisa

521
00:24:19,969 --> 00:24:23,899
to burst through the door and turn around
and then lock himself in here with me.

522
00:24:24,219 --> 00:24:28,310
And then it's like, it's okay,
it's, you know, I'm sorry, I gotta.

523
00:24:28,555 --> 00:24:29,485
Give me 30 seconds.

524
00:24:29,495 --> 00:24:30,605
So I'll be right back.

525
00:24:30,865 --> 00:24:32,095
That's not uncommon.

526
00:24:32,235 --> 00:24:34,645
Adam Fishman: It almost becomes
a game at that point in time.

527
00:24:34,655 --> 00:24:37,795
How can I avoid mom and
lock myself in with dad?

528
00:24:37,825 --> 00:24:40,874
So my kids are obviously a
little bit older than two.

529
00:24:41,255 --> 00:24:44,015
And I also have a door, which is helpful.

530
00:24:44,045 --> 00:24:48,725
That does lock, although we had to install
a little extra lock, but my kids will know

531
00:24:48,725 --> 00:24:50,815
that I'm in here and my son will slip.

532
00:24:51,300 --> 00:24:54,580
Notes underneath the
door while I'm working.

533
00:24:54,590 --> 00:24:59,080
So I will see like out of the
corner of my eye, like little notes

534
00:24:59,210 --> 00:25:03,500
with like drawings on it or like a
question or, Hey dad, can I do this?

535
00:25:03,950 --> 00:25:07,859
And sometimes I turn around and
there's like 15 notes that have

536
00:25:07,859 --> 00:25:10,380
been slid under the door and I'm
like, well, you know, he didn't.

537
00:25:11,465 --> 00:25:12,334
That's okay.

538
00:25:12,615 --> 00:25:13,534
The notes are fine.

539
00:25:13,534 --> 00:25:14,175
They're kind of cute.

540
00:25:14,175 --> 00:25:16,845
I should save them for the future,
but that is hopefully your two and

541
00:25:16,845 --> 00:25:20,034
a half year old eventually will get
to the note slipping stage of life.

542
00:25:20,054 --> 00:25:21,435
Luke Millar: My daughter
did that recently.

543
00:25:21,445 --> 00:25:21,804
It was funny.

544
00:25:21,804 --> 00:25:25,074
Cause she wrote a note that
said it's time for dinner.

545
00:25:25,494 --> 00:25:27,194
Um, but she didn't like
slip it under the door.

546
00:25:27,194 --> 00:25:29,514
She actually like pressed
it up to the window.

547
00:25:29,830 --> 00:25:30,990
And taped it to the window.

548
00:25:31,220 --> 00:25:35,800
I didn't notice, but the person that I was
on a call with did and was like, Hey, I

549
00:25:35,830 --> 00:25:37,580
think it's time for you to go eat dinner.

550
00:25:37,740 --> 00:25:39,129
And I'm like, what are you talking about?

551
00:25:39,139 --> 00:25:40,319
And he's like the note on your door.

552
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:40,949
And I'm like, Oh,

553
00:25:41,350 --> 00:25:41,899
Adam Fishman: yeah, great.

554
00:25:42,019 --> 00:25:42,610
There it is.

555
00:25:42,620 --> 00:25:42,929
Thank you.

556
00:25:42,929 --> 00:25:45,949
You could just like perfectly see it
over the shoulder or something like that.

557
00:25:46,330 --> 00:25:47,090
That's amazing.

558
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:47,979
That's amazing.

559
00:25:48,149 --> 00:25:48,610
So.

560
00:25:49,385 --> 00:25:52,855
You've got a bunch of siblings, your
wife has a bunch of siblings, there's

561
00:25:52,865 --> 00:25:56,415
probably a bunch of other kids involved,
nieces and nephews, aunt and uncle

562
00:25:56,415 --> 00:26:01,624
situation, like, sounds like it's a
really giant, you know, extended family,

563
00:26:01,895 --> 00:26:08,365
which is amazing, and one of the things
that happens a lot when you have other,

564
00:26:08,545 --> 00:26:13,044
especially siblings who have their own
kids and things like that, in laws, all

565
00:26:13,044 --> 00:26:14,935
that stuff, you get a lot of advice.

566
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:18,000
About raising your children.

567
00:26:18,220 --> 00:26:20,070
We like can't help ourselves.

568
00:26:20,460 --> 00:26:27,149
So you've collected probably, you know,
an LLM's worth of advice on parenting.

569
00:26:27,399 --> 00:26:31,740
If you could rewind the clock
and go back to, Hey, I'm Luke.

570
00:26:31,740 --> 00:26:37,200
I'm about to have my first kid, or I'm
about to have my second kid, which is

571
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:38,550
a pivotal point for a lot of people.

572
00:26:38,939 --> 00:26:44,170
What's like a really significant
piece of advice that you

573
00:26:44,170 --> 00:26:45,600
would give your younger self?

574
00:26:46,155 --> 00:26:46,965
I think the advice I

575
00:26:46,965 --> 00:26:49,085
Luke Millar: would give
is ignore the advice.

576
00:26:49,345 --> 00:26:54,035
Every family, every kid,
every parent is so different.

577
00:26:54,395 --> 00:26:56,735
I feel like, what were
the frustrations early on?

578
00:26:56,735 --> 00:27:00,164
It was like, me setting some
expectations for what things were

579
00:27:00,165 --> 00:27:03,724
supposed to be like, and then
those things not, like, happening.

580
00:27:04,125 --> 00:27:07,305
And then the letdown of that or the
frustrations that come along with that.

581
00:27:07,545 --> 00:27:10,855
And it was because, you know, you see
what other people are doing and you're

582
00:27:10,855 --> 00:27:12,145
like, Oh, that's what we should do.

583
00:27:12,165 --> 00:27:12,825
And you try to do it.

584
00:27:12,825 --> 00:27:14,325
And it's like, why isn't it working?

585
00:27:14,325 --> 00:27:16,054
Like, are we bad parents or what is it?

586
00:27:16,355 --> 00:27:20,274
And then as you have multiple kids,
one of the real benefits of having, you

587
00:27:20,274 --> 00:27:22,645
know, a bigger family is you realize.

588
00:27:23,485 --> 00:27:25,264
Every kid's different just naturally.

589
00:27:25,285 --> 00:27:28,745
Like your kid's not really calm because
of your insane parenting skills.

590
00:27:28,925 --> 00:27:30,615
They're just naturally really calm.

591
00:27:30,775 --> 00:27:32,285
You like hit the jackpot.

592
00:27:32,415 --> 00:27:35,625
And I know that because like we have some
that are and we have some that aren't.

593
00:27:35,645 --> 00:27:38,234
And it's not because like they
were raised by different families.

594
00:27:38,425 --> 00:27:42,095
Like some of those things are
just, you can't plan for them.

595
00:27:42,354 --> 00:27:46,905
And so be okay with, You know,
the unknown be okay with not

596
00:27:46,925 --> 00:27:48,305
trying to control everything.

597
00:27:48,695 --> 00:27:53,654
Don't feel bad if things don't feel
perfect or if it looks like other

598
00:27:53,654 --> 00:27:55,064
families are doing things really well.

599
00:27:55,064 --> 00:27:57,189
Cause You don't see the problems, right?

600
00:27:57,189 --> 00:28:00,310
Like that's one of the problems with
social media is you just, you only

601
00:28:00,310 --> 00:28:02,750
see for the most part, the positives.

602
00:28:02,750 --> 00:28:04,930
Like what's all the great stuff
that other families are doing.

603
00:28:04,930 --> 00:28:08,290
And then you feel crappy about yourself
because why aren't we doing that?

604
00:28:08,300 --> 00:28:10,490
And it's like, you're, it's
just not a fair comparison.

605
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,449
So my advice would actually be
like, ignore most of the advice.

606
00:28:13,659 --> 00:28:14,950
Do what you think makes sense for you.

607
00:28:15,149 --> 00:28:16,360
Some of it probably is right.

608
00:28:16,370 --> 00:28:19,550
Some of it's probably wrong, but you
won't know until you do it, do what

609
00:28:19,550 --> 00:28:20,959
you think is right and figure it

610
00:28:20,959 --> 00:28:21,149
Adam Fishman: out.

611
00:28:21,780 --> 00:28:22,550
I love that.

612
00:28:22,740 --> 00:28:24,130
Do you remember what the most.

613
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:29,190
ridiculous piece of parenting advice
that you received was one that you

614
00:28:29,190 --> 00:28:32,230
were like, Oh, absolutely ignore this.

615
00:28:33,055 --> 00:28:36,645
Luke Millar: One thing that we did
early on that was our decision that

616
00:28:36,655 --> 00:28:41,374
we got a lot of advice against early,
but it wasn't ridiculous because we

617
00:28:41,385 --> 00:28:46,635
intentionally chose to do something
different, which was when I was working in

618
00:28:46,685 --> 00:28:48,305
San Francisco, we lived in the East Bay.

619
00:28:48,305 --> 00:28:50,014
And so, like, I had an hour.

620
00:28:50,254 --> 00:28:54,034
Plus commute every day, which meant,
like I said, I wasn't home for dinner.

621
00:28:54,034 --> 00:28:57,044
I got home pretty late from
work and to miss traffic.

622
00:28:57,044 --> 00:28:59,645
Sometimes I would stay later in the
office and then come home later just

623
00:28:59,645 --> 00:29:02,765
so I didn't have to sit in traffic,
which meant sometimes I wasn't home

624
00:29:02,765 --> 00:29:06,205
from work till eight o'clock at
night and normally it's like cool.

625
00:29:06,205 --> 00:29:10,084
So your kids are asleep when you
get home and we had the conversation

626
00:29:10,085 --> 00:29:13,014
where we said we know we don't
want that not going to do that.

627
00:29:13,544 --> 00:29:15,905
This is before our kids were
in school and we just said.

628
00:29:16,304 --> 00:29:17,495
Have our kids stay up really late.

629
00:29:17,995 --> 00:29:21,884
Our first daughter, when it was
just one kid, she stayed up till

630
00:29:21,884 --> 00:29:26,985
midnight every night and people
told us we were nuts for that.

631
00:29:27,274 --> 00:29:30,964
They're like, why, like you're
going to ruin her sleep schedule.

632
00:29:30,964 --> 00:29:33,574
You guys are crazy, but it was amazing.

633
00:29:33,575 --> 00:29:35,014
Cause I would get home from work at eight.

634
00:29:35,425 --> 00:29:36,565
We stayed up late anyway.

635
00:29:36,565 --> 00:29:37,364
I'm a night owl.

636
00:29:37,705 --> 00:29:41,985
Because I work in tech, it was okay for
me to sleep in and go into work late, you

637
00:29:41,985 --> 00:29:43,745
know, like that was just the expectation.

638
00:29:43,995 --> 00:29:48,255
And so being able to, you know, stay
up and have me be home with her for

639
00:29:48,255 --> 00:29:51,675
four hours, even though I was working
full time in an office, be home for

640
00:29:51,684 --> 00:29:55,125
bedtime every night, and then I could
sleep and go into work the next morning.

641
00:29:55,425 --> 00:29:56,655
That was a decision we made.

642
00:29:56,655 --> 00:29:58,025
People told us we were nuts for that.

643
00:29:58,295 --> 00:29:59,135
So many people.

644
00:29:59,155 --> 00:30:01,280
And We kind of ignored it.

645
00:30:01,380 --> 00:30:02,250
And I'm glad we did.

646
00:30:02,270 --> 00:30:03,280
And we didn't do it forever.

647
00:30:03,290 --> 00:30:05,800
Like at some point, we had to phase it
out because she was going to go to school

648
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:07,620
and needed to be able to wake up early.

649
00:30:07,690 --> 00:30:09,710
But while we did it, it was great.

650
00:30:09,730 --> 00:30:12,130
Like there was no other way for
me to get that time with our kids.

651
00:30:12,530 --> 00:30:12,730
And

652
00:30:12,730 --> 00:30:19,289
Adam Fishman: probably that
time is more valuable than, you

653
00:30:19,289 --> 00:30:20,850
know, she could shift her sleep.

654
00:30:21,250 --> 00:30:23,770
She could sleep in later
and totally fine, but.

655
00:30:24,295 --> 00:30:27,115
You know, getting to spend some
time with dad, totally worth it.

656
00:30:27,355 --> 00:30:32,005
It gets back to your point that
like every kid is different.

657
00:30:32,005 --> 00:30:33,105
Every family is different.

658
00:30:33,115 --> 00:30:34,615
You got to do what's going to work.

659
00:30:35,010 --> 00:30:35,450
For you.

660
00:30:35,450 --> 00:30:42,000
And if that is the thing that
creates a lower stress, more relaxed

661
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:46,040
household, because everyone's cool
with that, it's probably a good thing.

662
00:30:46,469 --> 00:30:46,709
Yeah.

663
00:30:46,770 --> 00:30:47,050
And she

664
00:30:47,050 --> 00:30:49,740
Luke Millar: did, she slept in
until 10 every day or whatever

665
00:30:49,740 --> 00:30:51,830
it was, which also has a parent.

666
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:52,850
Was incredible.

667
00:30:53,900 --> 00:30:54,690
Adam Fishman: That's true.

668
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:55,470
That's true.

669
00:30:55,470 --> 00:30:55,980
Yes.

670
00:30:55,990 --> 00:30:59,900
I wish my kids slept into 10 now, but
eventually they will, I'm sure, and

671
00:30:59,900 --> 00:31:02,630
they will, and then you want to undo it.

672
00:31:02,630 --> 00:31:02,999
Yeah.

673
00:31:02,999 --> 00:31:03,369
Yeah.

674
00:31:03,369 --> 00:31:09,519
So across five kids, have you noticed
that your parenting style or approach

675
00:31:09,530 --> 00:31:15,060
has evolved or changed anything
you're doing differently now from

676
00:31:15,450 --> 00:31:17,950
your first or second or third kid?

677
00:31:18,360 --> 00:31:19,180
The answer is probably

678
00:31:19,180 --> 00:31:21,530
Luke Millar: yes, but
maybe not consciously.

679
00:31:21,870 --> 00:31:28,510
I think naturally we've gotten more chill
in how we interact with our kids and raise

680
00:31:28,510 --> 00:31:30,560
our kids and even just run our household.

681
00:31:30,610 --> 00:31:34,089
Like, that same idea that like,
you don't have to be so uptight.

682
00:31:34,110 --> 00:31:35,360
Like, things are gonna be fine.

683
00:31:35,659 --> 00:31:38,099
It's okay if you're not
on an exact schedule.

684
00:31:38,099 --> 00:31:39,829
It's okay if things are different today.

685
00:31:40,635 --> 00:31:42,815
You can't control it all and
you have to be okay with that.

686
00:31:42,815 --> 00:31:46,955
And I think early on when, you know,
one kid or two, we were trying more

687
00:31:47,485 --> 00:31:50,665
like do things right, do things
by the book and like, it's okay.

688
00:31:50,685 --> 00:31:51,295
You don't have to.

689
00:31:51,375 --> 00:31:53,895
Some of that stuff has
definitely changed over time.

690
00:31:54,294 --> 00:31:57,664
I also think the other thing that ends
up happening is when you have older

691
00:31:57,664 --> 00:32:03,505
kids, you feel like you can introduce
younger kids to things earlier.

692
00:32:03,950 --> 00:32:04,220
Right?

693
00:32:04,220 --> 00:32:07,410
Because the younger kids look at what the
older kids are doing and want to do it.

694
00:32:07,410 --> 00:32:10,420
And you're like, Oh, sure, I guess
you could, but I would have never

695
00:32:10,420 --> 00:32:14,550
considered my oldest kid at that
same age doing that same thing.

696
00:32:14,940 --> 00:32:17,979
I'm trying to think of a specific
examples, but even like, you know,

697
00:32:17,980 --> 00:32:19,579
taking them to different activities.

698
00:32:19,930 --> 00:32:23,080
Like with our older kids, I don't
think we did too much of taking them

699
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,240
out to like public sporting events.

700
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,700
But now that we do, cause they're older,
our younger kids are like, we want to go.

701
00:32:28,700 --> 00:32:29,609
And it's like, cool.

702
00:32:29,609 --> 00:32:29,749
Yeah.

703
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:30,070
I don't know.

704
00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:30,890
Why not do it?

705
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:31,520
That sounds great.

706
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:36,220
And you kind of end up exposing them to
more things earlier, which is probably

707
00:32:36,220 --> 00:32:40,229
just naturally true across the board,
which is why, you know, youngest kids have

708
00:32:40,229 --> 00:32:41,979
the reputation they have of like, yeah.

709
00:32:42,670 --> 00:32:42,960
Adam Fishman: Yeah.

710
00:32:43,030 --> 00:32:46,150
You just triggered something in my
head when you said exposing them to

711
00:32:46,150 --> 00:32:47,790
different activities and things like that.

712
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:52,809
And I'm curious, you may not do this
very often, but what is it like, do

713
00:32:52,809 --> 00:32:57,739
you, I don't know if you ever go out
to dinner as a family, all of you, what

714
00:32:57,739 --> 00:33:02,330
is the scene like when seven of you.

715
00:33:02,785 --> 00:33:09,185
Walk into a restaurant and like,
how do you kind of wrangle wrangle?

716
00:33:09,465 --> 00:33:11,085
How do you go out in public as a family?

717
00:33:11,225 --> 00:33:11,985
It's really hard.

718
00:33:12,245 --> 00:33:12,915
Luke Millar: We do it.

719
00:33:12,934 --> 00:33:17,344
We actually do go out to dinner with our
kids just because we kind of decided early

720
00:33:17,344 --> 00:33:21,715
on that we wanted them to, I don't know,
participate in things just because we have

721
00:33:21,715 --> 00:33:25,675
a lot of kids doesn't mean we should like
deprive them of like experiences that.

722
00:33:25,995 --> 00:33:27,255
Yeah, they would normally have.

723
00:33:27,355 --> 00:33:30,255
So we do take them out to dinner and
almost every time it ends with, why

724
00:33:30,255 --> 00:33:31,495
did we take all the kids out to dinner?

725
00:33:31,495 --> 00:33:32,715
Maybe we shouldn't do this anymore.

726
00:33:33,005 --> 00:33:34,355
Almost every time.

727
00:33:34,505 --> 00:33:36,165
And in fact, we actually
went out last night.

728
00:33:36,195 --> 00:33:38,745
Our kids are on spring break this
week, so they're home this week.

729
00:33:39,145 --> 00:33:42,325
And so last night we went out to
dinner and it was one of those.

730
00:33:42,325 --> 00:33:45,895
It's always like, you know, you check
in and we have a table of seven.

731
00:33:45,895 --> 00:33:49,195
Seven is actually really hard
because places are set up for six.

732
00:33:49,495 --> 00:33:50,725
Places are not set up for seven.

733
00:33:50,735 --> 00:33:54,085
You can't even get like a
reservation for seven at restaurants.

734
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:58,450
Yeah, I, maybe we should have thought
that through earlier, but it's really

735
00:33:58,450 --> 00:34:01,710
an underrated thing that like we
never considered even like airplanes.

736
00:34:01,750 --> 00:34:03,389
Airplanes are not set up
for families of seven.

737
00:34:03,409 --> 00:34:05,560
They are set up for families of
six, not for families of seven.

738
00:34:05,860 --> 00:34:08,800
And so those sorts of logistics,
but yeah, we, you know, you show up,

739
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,759
Hey, we have a table for seven and
it's like, Oh, you, it's all kids.

740
00:34:11,810 --> 00:34:13,540
And it's like, yeah, this
is gonna be a fun one.

741
00:34:13,540 --> 00:34:15,550
And usually, you know, it's
like, Can we get a booth?

742
00:34:15,770 --> 00:34:19,300
Because if so, like we can sit
on the end and like lock them in.

743
00:34:19,410 --> 00:34:22,460
And you know, so you like learn some
of these tricks of just like, how do

744
00:34:22,460 --> 00:34:24,030
you logistically make this happen?

745
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:29,539
Our two oldest girls are just, they're
so mature and helpful and want to help.

746
00:34:29,879 --> 00:34:34,129
They love our youngest and just want to
be with him and even fight over who gets

747
00:34:34,130 --> 00:34:35,359
to be with him and that sort of thing.

748
00:34:35,369 --> 00:34:39,730
And so just, you know, it is a
lot of help from them, which I

749
00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:40,960
sometimes feel bad about, but.

750
00:34:41,365 --> 00:34:43,945
Yeah, it's kind of just a
group effort and I don't know.

751
00:34:43,955 --> 00:34:44,375
It's fun.

752
00:34:44,665 --> 00:34:45,325
That's amazing.

753
00:34:45,375 --> 00:34:49,005
Adam Fishman: You know, sometime soon,
probably those two older, uh, girls

754
00:34:49,005 --> 00:34:52,115
are going to find a way to monetize
those talents through babysitting.

755
00:34:52,485 --> 00:34:57,595
I have found our best babysitters
come from large families where they've

756
00:34:57,605 --> 00:35:03,000
kind of had to, uh, Take care of, you
know, a long tail of other siblings.

757
00:35:03,130 --> 00:35:03,480
So

758
00:35:03,490 --> 00:35:06,610
Luke Millar: 100 percent our oldest this
year has been the first time where it's

759
00:35:06,610 --> 00:35:11,750
like, we felt that she's old enough and
responsible enough that we can leave all

760
00:35:11,750 --> 00:35:14,140
of our kids at home with her and go out.

761
00:35:14,370 --> 00:35:17,480
So it's actually really changed
even mine and Lisa's relationship

762
00:35:17,490 --> 00:35:18,510
because we can go out.

763
00:35:18,875 --> 00:35:21,305
Uh, you know, it doesn't have to
be like a whole night thing, but

764
00:35:21,305 --> 00:35:23,985
like we can go out to dinner for
an hour or an hour and a half.

765
00:35:23,985 --> 00:35:25,235
That sounds awesome.

766
00:35:25,235 --> 00:35:29,605
And like we've done that more in the
last year than we had in the previous 12.

767
00:35:29,615 --> 00:35:31,605
So yeah, that's been a huge unlock for us.

768
00:35:31,605 --> 00:35:34,224
But yeah, already she's like, but
you should be paying me for this.

769
00:35:34,905 --> 00:35:35,134
I'm like,

770
00:35:36,970 --> 00:35:38,750
Adam Fishman: You'll get
to go to college someday.

771
00:35:38,750 --> 00:35:39,630
That's your payment.

772
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:43,640
This is actually a really good transition
point because I wanted to talk a little

773
00:35:43,640 --> 00:35:45,330
bit about your relationship with Lisa.

774
00:35:45,739 --> 00:35:52,779
Parenting is one of those things where
it's a partnership with your spouse.

775
00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:54,760
And when you have.

776
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:59,240
And especially when you're in a situation
like you are, where you have enough

777
00:35:59,860 --> 00:36:03,960
children to kind of form a basketball
team, you got to get on the same page

778
00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:09,259
with your spouse about rules and limits,
and even just spending time with each

779
00:36:09,260 --> 00:36:13,130
other, like you mentioned, it's probably
hard for, or at least up until this

780
00:36:13,130 --> 00:36:16,480
last year, hard for the two of you
to find one on one time, how do you

781
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:18,530
and Lisa get on the same page about.

782
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:24,580
Parenting and carve out time to spend
with each other for a long time.

783
00:36:25,110 --> 00:36:26,850
Luke Millar: We really didn't.

784
00:36:26,940 --> 00:36:28,670
And I don't mean that in like a bad way.

785
00:36:28,670 --> 00:36:30,790
Like we've always had a
really great relationship.

786
00:36:31,090 --> 00:36:35,379
I think one of the things that's worked
really well for us is that for the most

787
00:36:35,410 --> 00:36:37,939
part, we agree on almost everything.

788
00:36:37,969 --> 00:36:41,600
And even when we don't, it's like minor
things and they're not things that matter.

789
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:42,250
So like.

790
00:36:42,695 --> 00:36:44,135
We both kind of just let them go.

791
00:36:44,505 --> 00:36:49,425
And so, you know, that part has been
really easy in terms of it, not being

792
00:36:49,465 --> 00:36:52,345
time consuming activity of getting
on the same page about parenting.

793
00:36:52,685 --> 00:36:56,845
It's usually the logistics of like,
you know, just managing calendars

794
00:36:56,845 --> 00:37:00,434
and schedules and who needs to be
doing what and what help do you need?

795
00:37:00,434 --> 00:37:02,205
And Oh, Holy crap, you're at your limit.

796
00:37:02,205 --> 00:37:04,065
You need extra help today because.

797
00:37:04,465 --> 00:37:08,205
You're just mentally struggling, you know,
like those sorts of things and trying to

798
00:37:08,205 --> 00:37:12,495
recognize those in terms of spending time
together and making time for each other.

799
00:37:12,775 --> 00:37:16,525
Just it's so important to
do, but it is really hard.

800
00:37:16,845 --> 00:37:19,415
I think when you just have young kids,
it doesn't even matter how many kids you

801
00:37:19,425 --> 00:37:24,665
have, it is really hard because the day
is just structured around the kid's day.

802
00:37:24,915 --> 00:37:28,555
And so for us, it's so many times where
we get to the end of the day and the kids

803
00:37:28,555 --> 00:37:33,645
are finally in bed and it's like, we have
time together and it's like, I'm so tired.

804
00:37:33,815 --> 00:37:34,835
I just need to go to bed.

805
00:37:34,835 --> 00:37:35,035
Right.

806
00:37:35,035 --> 00:37:35,685
And it's like, no, we didn't.

807
00:37:35,685 --> 00:37:35,895
Okay.

808
00:37:35,895 --> 00:37:37,555
We didn't get any time together today.

809
00:37:37,855 --> 00:37:39,715
One of the things that we did early.

810
00:37:40,250 --> 00:37:44,110
Also in our relationship, I feel like is
we always tried to go to bed at the same

811
00:37:44,110 --> 00:37:47,750
time and it wasn't really like, Hey, you
know, like, Hey, I'm going to go to bed.

812
00:37:47,750 --> 00:37:51,000
You got to come to, but just, you
know, even if she was tired or

813
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:52,910
wanted to go to bed, that's fine.

814
00:37:52,950 --> 00:37:56,859
I'll come in to our bedroom and maybe
I'll do some work late at night in

815
00:37:56,859 --> 00:38:00,220
there as opposed to let me go to my
office where we're going to be separate

816
00:38:00,220 --> 00:38:03,740
to do it, you know, and trying to
find ways to spend time together, even

817
00:38:03,740 --> 00:38:06,340
if it was through other activities.

818
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,190
You know, in my office, sometimes
Lisa will come in and hang out

819
00:38:09,190 --> 00:38:12,780
in here if I'm working and it's
not meetings, but like, right?

820
00:38:12,780 --> 00:38:16,229
Except it doesn't mean that we're,
you know, having deep conversations

821
00:38:16,230 --> 00:38:19,339
necessarily, but even just being next
to each other and being able to spend

822
00:38:19,340 --> 00:38:22,089
some time together while we're doing
all the other things that we have to do.

823
00:38:22,430 --> 00:38:25,259
Those have been meaningful,
even though they feel small.

824
00:38:25,550 --> 00:38:25,830
Adam Fishman: Yeah.

825
00:38:25,870 --> 00:38:28,540
Luke Millar: But now, yeah,
now that, you know, as our kids

826
00:38:28,540 --> 00:38:31,040
get older, it's like, wait, our
relationship can be even different.

827
00:38:31,100 --> 00:38:32,840
We went on a trip this year
without our kids and it

828
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:33,610
Adam Fishman: was amazing.

829
00:38:33,610 --> 00:38:34,100
Fantastic.

830
00:38:34,420 --> 00:38:34,860
Yeah.

831
00:38:34,900 --> 00:38:36,620
And everyone survived.

832
00:38:37,020 --> 00:38:39,300
The house was still
standing when you returned.

833
00:38:39,380 --> 00:38:39,490
Exactly.

834
00:38:39,559 --> 00:38:40,389
That's pretty awesome.

835
00:38:40,490 --> 00:38:43,949
You mentioned though that there are,
you know, mostly minor areas where you

836
00:38:43,950 --> 00:38:45,850
don't agree when it comes to parenting.

837
00:38:46,280 --> 00:38:49,040
Was there anything that you really
had the two of you really had to

838
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,819
have a conversation about and get
on the same page about when you

839
00:38:52,819 --> 00:38:54,440
were sort of first starting here?

840
00:38:54,755 --> 00:38:55,515
Parenting journey.

841
00:38:55,515 --> 00:38:58,405
Did you have any kind of competing
philosophies or anything like that?

842
00:38:58,925 --> 00:39:00,305
Luke Millar: We didn't know big ones.

843
00:39:00,305 --> 00:39:04,365
The minor ones that come up are things
like they're like, they're so dumb.

844
00:39:04,385 --> 00:39:05,865
It's like nutritional things.

845
00:39:05,865 --> 00:39:08,955
It's like, Hey, Lisa
is not a soda drinker.

846
00:39:09,215 --> 00:39:11,855
And so she's like, no, I don't really,
the kids don't need to drink soda.

847
00:39:11,924 --> 00:39:14,085
And the kids are like, wait, but
dad drinks soda all the time.

848
00:39:14,405 --> 00:39:15,475
And I'm like, yeah, I don't know.

849
00:39:16,714 --> 00:39:17,915
Yeah, that sucks.

850
00:39:17,925 --> 00:39:19,185
Sucks to be you, you know?

851
00:39:19,435 --> 00:39:20,715
So it's like those minor things.

852
00:39:20,715 --> 00:39:22,065
And I mean, it's fine.

853
00:39:22,075 --> 00:39:23,745
They're never problematic.

854
00:39:23,745 --> 00:39:24,075
Really?

855
00:39:24,225 --> 00:39:25,215
What are some of the other ones?

856
00:39:25,525 --> 00:39:27,845
Not really parenting, but even
just in managing the house.

857
00:39:27,845 --> 00:39:31,545
And like, I think finances wise,
we've had different perspectives.

858
00:39:31,545 --> 00:39:33,865
We, we grew up pretty
differently on that front.

859
00:39:33,875 --> 00:39:37,185
And so trying to figure out how to make
that stuff work of like who manages

860
00:39:37,194 --> 00:39:38,955
finances, what does that look like?

861
00:39:39,185 --> 00:39:42,734
Do we try to stick to a budget or
do we not, you know, we're actually

862
00:39:42,734 --> 00:39:45,025
pretty different on that front,
but I actually think that that's

863
00:39:45,035 --> 00:39:46,915
worked in our favor to be different.

864
00:39:46,925 --> 00:39:48,075
Cause I think if you have like.

865
00:39:48,650 --> 00:39:52,530
A couple where you're both like big
spenders and don't care about a budget.

866
00:39:52,570 --> 00:39:53,410
That's probably not great.

867
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:57,110
And so I feel like that's
balanced well, but you know, it

868
00:39:57,210 --> 00:40:00,020
comes up regularly, especially
as you know, kids are expensive.

869
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,010
Adam Fishman: That they are that they are.

870
00:40:03,660 --> 00:40:08,580
So I want to transition and end with a
couple of things, but one of them is more

871
00:40:08,580 --> 00:40:12,580
of a serious topic, which you told me
in the prep for the show, which is that

872
00:40:12,610 --> 00:40:18,010
Lisa has been battling through a cancer
diagnosis and battling cancer the last.

873
00:40:19,690 --> 00:40:23,480
And even though it sounds like it's
ongoing, I am happy to hear that you

874
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:25,950
said she's through the worst parts of it.

875
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:33,240
But I imagine that this has consumed your
lives and really impacted your parenting.

876
00:40:33,779 --> 00:40:37,559
And so I'm, I guess I have two
questions for you about this topic.

877
00:40:37,559 --> 00:40:39,880
One is how has.

878
00:40:40,565 --> 00:40:45,415
That diagnosis and that process
kind of consumed your lives.

879
00:40:45,445 --> 00:40:49,755
And then the second part is how did
you talk to your kids about this

880
00:40:49,805 --> 00:40:54,644
when you found out, because I imagine
that that is a delicate topic and you

881
00:40:54,645 --> 00:41:00,165
have kids across a bunch of different
ages, so very different conversations.

882
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:00,980
Yeah,

883
00:41:01,540 --> 00:41:06,880
Luke Millar: we found out that
she had cancer when Jake, who's

884
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:08,510
our youngest, was six months old.

885
00:41:09,019 --> 00:41:15,149
And it was one of those things where she
actually has BRCA2 gene mutation where we

886
00:41:15,149 --> 00:41:19,060
knew that she was more likely to develop
breast cancer at some point in her life.

887
00:41:19,490 --> 00:41:22,560
So she was, you know, regularly
monitoring and that sort of thing.

888
00:41:22,980 --> 00:41:24,514
It wasn't something
that we, you know, knew.

889
00:41:25,115 --> 00:41:29,505
You know, we're expecting at this point,
especially like in the middle of trying

890
00:41:29,505 --> 00:41:35,275
to figure out five kids and a little one
at home to add to the just the craziness

891
00:41:35,285 --> 00:41:40,404
of it was projector got acquired by medium
literally a week before we found out.

892
00:41:40,780 --> 00:41:41,330
Adam Fishman: Oh, and

893
00:41:41,330 --> 00:41:45,550
Luke Millar: so it was just in the
middle of what was already one of

894
00:41:45,550 --> 00:41:47,840
the craziest parts of our life.

895
00:41:48,250 --> 00:41:52,449
And so, you know, us coming to like
terms with like, what does it mean?

896
00:41:52,460 --> 00:41:54,879
You know, and I think for a lot of
people that haven't been through

897
00:41:54,929 --> 00:41:58,320
cancer don't totally, I mean, it's
pretty easy to like, not understand

898
00:41:58,420 --> 00:41:59,880
the details of like, how does it work?

899
00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:02,300
And What does the diagnosis
actually look like?

900
00:42:02,510 --> 00:42:04,920
But it was one of those things where
it's like, yeah, you do have cancer.

901
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:07,130
We don't totally know
yet the details of it.

902
00:42:07,450 --> 00:42:09,960
And so you're left in this state
of like, what does this mean?

903
00:42:09,970 --> 00:42:11,350
Like, what does this mean long term?

904
00:42:11,350 --> 00:42:12,540
What does this mean short term?

905
00:42:12,820 --> 00:42:13,919
Do I have to do treatment?

906
00:42:14,240 --> 00:42:15,340
Like it was unknown.

907
00:42:15,340 --> 00:42:19,410
So you're like in this period of trying
to even just figure out logistically,

908
00:42:19,410 --> 00:42:20,640
how are we going to deal with this?

909
00:42:20,720 --> 00:42:25,670
I mean, I don't know, you know, and then
through different tests and seeing a bunch

910
00:42:25,670 --> 00:42:28,430
of different doctors and understanding
and putting together a treatment plan.

911
00:42:28,430 --> 00:42:29,300
And then you realize.

912
00:42:29,860 --> 00:42:34,675
Oh crap, this is gonna be This is gonna
be a while that we have to deal with.

913
00:42:34,725 --> 00:42:37,425
This is not, Hey, we got to go deal
with this for the next couple months.

914
00:42:37,665 --> 00:42:39,545
It's, Oh, no, we're gonna be
dealing with this for the next

915
00:42:39,545 --> 00:42:41,365
few years is what this looks like.

916
00:42:41,785 --> 00:42:45,595
And at that point, we had the realization
that, like, we can't do it on our own.

917
00:42:46,135 --> 00:42:46,725
Not gonna happen.

918
00:42:47,235 --> 00:42:51,285
Just, you know, knowing that she's not
gonna feel great through a lot of it.

919
00:42:51,735 --> 00:42:55,655
And even like physically, but then
even just mentally and emotionally.

920
00:42:55,685 --> 00:42:56,085
Sure.

921
00:42:56,135 --> 00:42:58,365
And the kids are gonna struggle with it.

922
00:42:58,365 --> 00:43:00,915
And like, what is how do you I don't know.

923
00:43:00,915 --> 00:43:00,984
Yeah.

924
00:43:01,185 --> 00:43:01,905
Like, you're a parent.

925
00:43:01,905 --> 00:43:03,775
It's like, I don't, I'm
not an expert in this.

926
00:43:03,775 --> 00:43:05,265
I'm trying to figure it out for myself.

927
00:43:05,615 --> 00:43:08,585
Like, how am I supposed to teach
you how to feel about it too?

928
00:43:08,995 --> 00:43:13,725
And so, yeah, we sat the kids down
and told them, like, as you said,

929
00:43:14,245 --> 00:43:18,895
you know, differing levels of
understanding of what that even means.

930
00:43:19,105 --> 00:43:22,539
You want to give them that
positive, optimistic view of it.

931
00:43:22,700 --> 00:43:27,040
You know, while telling them
what to expect mom sick and she's

932
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,710
going to, you know, be having
lots of doctor's appointments.

933
00:43:29,720 --> 00:43:33,040
You know, she's probably not going to have
a lot of energy and she's probably going

934
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:37,759
to be sleeping a lot and you know, she
will lose her hair and all of these things

935
00:43:37,760 --> 00:43:40,839
that, you know, for little kids, those
things they can really struggle with.

936
00:43:40,839 --> 00:43:44,320
So like if you can help set their
expectations and manage their expectations

937
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:46,180
early, I think it helps quite a bit.

938
00:43:46,710 --> 00:43:50,610
The thing that maybe made it
easier, but maybe made it harder is.

939
00:43:51,140 --> 00:43:53,310
Our family wasn't new to cancer.

940
00:43:53,310 --> 00:43:57,340
We actually have quite a history of it
within our family, including my mom who

941
00:43:57,340 --> 00:43:59,730
passed away from cancer nine years ago.

942
00:44:00,100 --> 00:44:01,930
Our kids remember that, right?

943
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:05,310
So like then hearing that mom has
cancer, like those things are really

944
00:44:05,310 --> 00:44:08,759
scary and you know, trying to figure
out how do they feel about it.

945
00:44:09,239 --> 00:44:12,510
We had them meet with
the school counselor.

946
00:44:13,290 --> 00:44:17,520
And they did that on a regular basis of
like meeting, check in, how are you doing?

947
00:44:17,770 --> 00:44:18,950
You know, those sorts of things.

948
00:44:18,990 --> 00:44:20,390
I think that was really good for them.

949
00:44:20,790 --> 00:44:24,300
They all at least seemed to like
it and enjoy those conversations.

950
00:44:24,610 --> 00:44:27,080
And then, like I said, it was, you
know, just a lot of help from a lot

951
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:30,709
of people, a lot of friends, a lot of
family, almost every single person.

952
00:44:30,709 --> 00:44:32,160
Like you said, I have a big family.

953
00:44:32,219 --> 00:44:33,209
She has a big family.

954
00:44:34,079 --> 00:44:34,769
Holy crap.

955
00:44:34,809 --> 00:44:40,470
Everyone just kind of like ran to
our help where most people Would,

956
00:44:40,750 --> 00:44:44,090
you know, come spend a week with us
at a time where there was probably

957
00:44:44,090 --> 00:44:47,090
a six month period where there was
always someone living at our house.

958
00:44:47,165 --> 00:44:53,035
Just to help with things, you know,
and so it was flying someone out

959
00:44:53,035 --> 00:44:59,124
here to us come stay with us and help
take the kids to school every day.

960
00:44:59,365 --> 00:45:00,304
Deal with that stuff.

961
00:45:00,565 --> 00:45:04,355
I was still working off and on
throughout it as I was trying to

962
00:45:04,355 --> 00:45:08,425
figure out my new role at medium
leading the engineering team and

963
00:45:08,425 --> 00:45:09,725
trying to figure some of that stuff.

964
00:45:10,105 --> 00:45:13,535
It was important to me to be
all of Lisa's appointments.

965
00:45:14,075 --> 00:45:17,575
We knew that early on that, like,
we wanted to go do those together

966
00:45:17,575 --> 00:45:20,225
and I didn't want to leave her to
be the one to go do it on her own.

967
00:45:20,655 --> 00:45:24,625
But that also meant, like, we need people
to watch the kids on a very regular basis.

968
00:45:24,625 --> 00:45:29,655
And so having someone stay at our house
with us, that our kids know and trust.

969
00:45:30,005 --> 00:45:32,625
That we trust that we
can, you know, do that.

970
00:45:33,645 --> 00:45:34,165
Holy crap.

971
00:45:34,175 --> 00:45:34,945
There's no, I don't know.

972
00:45:34,965 --> 00:45:36,155
I don't know how else
we would have done it.

973
00:45:36,195 --> 00:45:38,485
That was just, that was the key to it.

974
00:45:38,725 --> 00:45:40,625
And like I said, everybody helped.

975
00:45:40,644 --> 00:45:44,384
Like, I think every single one of my
siblings at some point stayed with us.

976
00:45:44,665 --> 00:45:47,704
My parents, her parents, you
know, her siblings, cousins,

977
00:45:47,765 --> 00:45:50,915
whatever it was, everyone just
kind of jumped in and to help.

978
00:45:50,945 --> 00:45:54,745
And that was huge for us, but also
just huge for our kids to have some

979
00:45:54,755 --> 00:45:57,955
stability of, or not stability,
but like have someone around

980
00:45:58,005 --> 00:45:58,844
Adam Fishman: that they can depend Yeah.

981
00:45:59,255 --> 00:46:00,485
Yeah, somebody they knew.

982
00:46:00,505 --> 00:46:03,565
So it wasn't like a revolving door
of strangers or anything like that.

983
00:46:03,895 --> 00:46:04,115
Wow.

984
00:46:04,115 --> 00:46:09,874
What an amazing journey and also support
structure that you were able to rely on.

985
00:46:09,875 --> 00:46:14,325
And like you said, It feels tough
to think about how that could have

986
00:46:14,325 --> 00:46:16,165
gone if you didn't have that stuff.

987
00:46:16,165 --> 00:46:23,114
So I have a follow up question for you,
which is what do you do personally to

988
00:46:23,115 --> 00:46:27,245
restore your batteries or center yourself?

989
00:46:27,304 --> 00:46:29,895
There's obviously been
a lot going on in life.

990
00:46:30,294 --> 00:46:32,825
And so what do you do when you
get, you know, your, I don't

991
00:46:32,825 --> 00:46:34,545
know, 10 minutes of you time?

992
00:46:34,565 --> 00:46:35,515
What does that look like?

993
00:46:35,515 --> 00:46:36,935
What are the ways that you recharge?

994
00:46:37,340 --> 00:46:38,330
Luke Millar: This is actually pretty new.

995
00:46:38,330 --> 00:46:43,550
I think probably over these last couple
years of, you know, taking on now, things

996
00:46:43,550 --> 00:46:45,840
are, you know, much better at home.

997
00:46:45,860 --> 00:46:49,539
Lisa feels great and things
are feeling pretty normal.

998
00:46:49,539 --> 00:46:53,819
But for a while there, like so much
of the family load fell on me as well.

999
00:46:54,130 --> 00:46:55,400
And it was, I don't know.

1000
00:46:55,409 --> 00:46:56,469
I mean, she does it all the time.

1001
00:46:56,469 --> 00:46:59,710
So like, I can't really complain about
it, but like it was really hard and

1002
00:46:59,720 --> 00:47:03,600
you really recognize like, Oh, you just
you do really need some alone time.

1003
00:47:03,620 --> 00:47:05,450
You need some time to yourself.

1004
00:47:05,770 --> 00:47:06,424
And yeah.

1005
00:47:06,805 --> 00:47:10,645
You feel bad about it as a parent
often because it's like any alone time

1006
00:47:10,765 --> 00:47:13,055
is just more stress on your partner.

1007
00:47:13,455 --> 00:47:15,755
Right, because it's like, Hey, I'm
going to go do this thing and it's

1008
00:47:15,755 --> 00:47:18,365
like, you're really going to freaking
leave me with five kids to go do

1009
00:47:18,375 --> 00:47:19,635
your activity that you want to do.

1010
00:47:19,935 --> 00:47:22,164
But you really have to be supportive
of one another to say like,

1011
00:47:22,165 --> 00:47:23,445
yes, no, but you should do it.

1012
00:47:24,045 --> 00:47:24,715
I got it.

1013
00:47:25,105 --> 00:47:26,855
Go have some time by yourself.

1014
00:47:26,915 --> 00:47:30,254
One of the things that I realized at some
point that clicked for me is like, wait,

1015
00:47:30,284 --> 00:47:32,344
I can do things after the kids are asleep.

1016
00:47:32,365 --> 00:47:32,675
Right.

1017
00:47:32,705 --> 00:47:34,875
And like, it's good for everyone.

1018
00:47:34,995 --> 00:47:35,595
It's good for me.

1019
00:47:35,635 --> 00:47:36,175
Good for her.

1020
00:47:36,215 --> 00:47:36,905
Good for the kids.

1021
00:47:36,935 --> 00:47:38,815
It's not like extra stress or anything.

1022
00:47:38,815 --> 00:47:40,415
I can still get the kids to bed.

1023
00:47:40,674 --> 00:47:43,635
And then like, I can go see
a 10 o'clock movie at night.

1024
00:47:44,855 --> 00:47:46,935
with a friend or even
by myself, I don't care.

1025
00:47:47,155 --> 00:47:50,915
Those things have been actually pretty
big game changers in terms of like,

1026
00:47:50,935 --> 00:47:52,655
Oh, time to actually do something.

1027
00:47:52,885 --> 00:47:55,585
I have a group of friends right
now that we get together weekly

1028
00:47:55,585 --> 00:47:57,845
actually for a board game night.

1029
00:47:58,125 --> 00:47:59,935
But again, it's one of those things
where we do it late at night.

1030
00:47:59,975 --> 00:48:01,144
It's like, Nope, kids are in bed.

1031
00:48:01,444 --> 00:48:03,955
We're going to get together at
someone's house and play games

1032
00:48:03,955 --> 00:48:05,385
or just hang out for the night.

1033
00:48:05,745 --> 00:48:06,815
Being able to do those things.

1034
00:48:06,815 --> 00:48:09,785
And the unlock there is
doing them late at night.

1035
00:48:09,785 --> 00:48:10,615
So it's just, it's,

1036
00:48:11,985 --> 00:48:14,125
Adam Fishman: I was going to
say that is the ultimate unlock.

1037
00:48:14,135 --> 00:48:17,675
You were already a night owl,
but just kind of shifting to be

1038
00:48:17,675 --> 00:48:19,005
like, all right, kids are asleep.

1039
00:48:19,885 --> 00:48:21,444
Every, everything is right in the world.

1040
00:48:22,145 --> 00:48:23,805
Now I can go do something.

1041
00:48:23,895 --> 00:48:26,605
That's a, definitely a
tactic that I have employed.

1042
00:48:26,745 --> 00:48:29,194
Both me and my wife
have employed over time.

1043
00:48:29,194 --> 00:48:30,615
So game night for you.

1044
00:48:31,075 --> 00:48:31,805
Anything else?

1045
00:48:31,835 --> 00:48:34,445
Podcasting CrossFit.

1046
00:48:34,795 --> 00:48:35,495
I don't know.

1047
00:48:36,170 --> 00:48:37,210
Luke Millar: Aggressive Pickleball.

1048
00:48:37,210 --> 00:48:37,480
Huge.

1049
00:48:37,660 --> 00:48:40,080
You know, I love Pickleball, but
it's, yeah, hard to find time

1050
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:41,660
for that because that's not one
that you can do at midnight.

1051
00:48:41,960 --> 00:48:43,630
Podcasts, listen to a lot of podcasts.

1052
00:48:43,760 --> 00:48:47,640
I think the other one used to be a
good one for when I used to commute

1053
00:48:48,130 --> 00:48:51,690
because I did listen to a lot of
podcasts, but it just, you know, that

1054
00:48:51,690 --> 00:48:56,140
time between work and home was so
valuable to be able to like disconnect.

1055
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:59,750
from things and like
separate work from home.

1056
00:48:59,980 --> 00:49:01,240
I used to do it in silence.

1057
00:49:01,330 --> 00:49:05,920
I would do that whole drive and commute
without listening to anything just

1058
00:49:05,930 --> 00:49:08,809
to like work through my own thoughts.

1059
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:11,869
It was almost like a meditation,
you know, but while driving,

1060
00:49:12,130 --> 00:49:13,410
I still look for opportunity.

1061
00:49:13,420 --> 00:49:15,560
Now that I work from home, I don't,
I can't do that in my commute, but I

1062
00:49:15,570 --> 00:49:16,960
still look for opportunities to do that.

1063
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:20,510
I've just, can I be by myself
in silence for 30 minutes?

1064
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:22,480
Cause it actually feels
really good to do that.

1065
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:22,850
Yeah.

1066
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:23,350
Adam Fishman: Okay.

1067
00:49:23,350 --> 00:49:23,950
Last.

1068
00:49:24,460 --> 00:49:26,690
One or two questions for you.

1069
00:49:27,240 --> 00:49:32,810
I am sure that you are a flawless parent,
like we all are, but I do wonder what is

1070
00:49:32,810 --> 00:49:35,000
a mistake that you've made as a father?

1071
00:49:35,389 --> 00:49:36,929
Luke Millar: Like, I don't
have any stories of like

1072
00:49:36,950 --> 00:49:38,650
dropping kids or hurting kids.

1073
00:49:38,660 --> 00:49:39,599
Like, I don't know.

1074
00:49:40,690 --> 00:49:42,539
I think one is just not.

1075
00:49:42,975 --> 00:49:47,975
Treating kids as kids like sometimes
you think of them as older than they are

1076
00:49:48,255 --> 00:49:52,505
and you treat them as if they should be
responsible adults or something, you know,

1077
00:49:52,905 --> 00:49:58,034
or fully formed people with like real
logic and they're not always, of course,

1078
00:49:58,034 --> 00:50:00,765
they're not because their Children and
they're still trying to figure things out.

1079
00:50:00,775 --> 00:50:04,235
And I think about this in the context
of like our oldest child that year

1080
00:50:04,235 --> 00:50:08,755
that we were really in the mix of Lisa
in treatment and dealing with things.

1081
00:50:08,965 --> 00:50:11,295
We put way too much on her.

1082
00:50:11,770 --> 00:50:14,360
To like manage at home,
like, Hey, it's bedtime.

1083
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:17,480
Can you please help get your
little sister in bed tonight?

1084
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:19,150
Will you please read her a story?

1085
00:50:19,150 --> 00:50:22,479
Because I got to take the other
three or two or whatever it is.

1086
00:50:22,670 --> 00:50:25,410
And mom's not feeling well,
you know, like a lot of those.

1087
00:50:25,729 --> 00:50:27,989
And and she was up for it.

1088
00:50:28,000 --> 00:50:29,169
She was game for it.

1089
00:50:29,550 --> 00:50:33,770
You know, she was always excited to
help, but I remember there was one night

1090
00:50:33,770 --> 00:50:39,680
where she just kind of broke and was
like, you're asking me to do too much,

1091
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:43,170
and it was one of those like, oh, crap.

1092
00:50:43,190 --> 00:50:44,140
Yeah, we are.

1093
00:50:44,510 --> 00:50:45,270
You're a child.

1094
00:50:45,700 --> 00:50:46,500
You're not an adult.

1095
00:50:46,790 --> 00:50:48,450
It's not, this isn't your problem.

1096
00:50:48,770 --> 00:50:49,050
Adam Fishman: Yeah.

1097
00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:51,680
Luke Millar: Um, yeah, that,
that, that stuff's hard.

1098
00:50:52,100 --> 00:50:52,530
Yeah.

1099
00:50:52,990 --> 00:50:54,360
Adam Fishman: But also,
I'm like all emotional.

1100
00:50:54,410 --> 00:50:57,770
No, no, I, I, that's a lot.

1101
00:50:58,180 --> 00:51:02,460
I think the other thing to turn
that around on a positive note,

1102
00:51:02,499 --> 00:51:06,860
which is how great that your 12
year old was able to communicate

1103
00:51:06,860 --> 00:51:08,620
something like that to you, right?

1104
00:51:08,650 --> 00:51:10,879
And sort of express her
needs and not, yeah.

1105
00:51:11,420 --> 00:51:17,770
Keep that tied up inside and actually
tell you, you know, maybe it was an

1106
00:51:17,770 --> 00:51:21,730
emotional telling of it, maybe there was
some yelling involved or something like

1107
00:51:21,730 --> 00:51:25,970
that, as you know, I have an 11 year
old, I know how this goes, but how, how

1108
00:51:25,970 --> 00:51:28,059
wonderful that she was able to do that.

1109
00:51:28,090 --> 00:51:28,570
And.

1110
00:51:29,185 --> 00:51:32,165
You know, recover from that
and you could all work together

1111
00:51:32,385 --> 00:51:33,585
through through that stuff.

1112
00:51:33,605 --> 00:51:37,795
So thank you for sharing that,
that story with me and, uh, that's

1113
00:51:37,795 --> 00:51:38,815
going to help a lot of people.

1114
00:51:38,964 --> 00:51:39,605
Do they hear that?

1115
00:51:40,005 --> 00:51:40,234
Good.

1116
00:51:40,234 --> 00:51:40,595
I hope so.

1117
00:51:40,644 --> 00:51:40,874
Yeah.

1118
00:51:41,095 --> 00:51:46,524
How can people follow
along or be helpful to you?

1119
00:51:46,735 --> 00:51:49,344
I don't know if you have a
medium publication that they

1120
00:51:49,464 --> 00:51:50,754
should be subscribing to.

1121
00:51:50,774 --> 00:51:51,344
It is your business.

1122
00:51:51,354 --> 00:51:51,714
Yeah.

1123
00:51:51,764 --> 00:51:52,364
But yeah.

1124
00:51:52,364 --> 00:51:56,215
What would you recommend if people want
to connect or follow or, I'm sure you

1125
00:51:56,215 --> 00:51:57,665
don't live your life on the internet.

1126
00:51:57,665 --> 00:51:59,045
Cause you got enough stuff going on.

1127
00:51:59,645 --> 00:51:59,915
I would

1128
00:51:59,915 --> 00:52:04,065
Luke Millar: say obviously a
medium I'm at LPM on everything.

1129
00:52:04,065 --> 00:52:07,044
So medium Twitter, follow me there.

1130
00:52:07,075 --> 00:52:09,975
It's interesting cause medium, I think,
you know, has been around for a long

1131
00:52:09,975 --> 00:52:11,415
time and like the reputation of it.

1132
00:52:11,755 --> 00:52:13,585
I think over the years has fluctuated.

1133
00:52:13,805 --> 00:52:16,725
The thing, the focus today
has just been so much around.

1134
00:52:16,735 --> 00:52:19,635
How do you help people really deepen
their understanding of what's happening

1135
00:52:19,635 --> 00:52:21,064
in the world and learn from each other?

1136
00:52:21,225 --> 00:52:21,875
Exactly.

1137
00:52:21,875 --> 00:52:24,685
The type of thing that you're doing here
with this podcast, which is don't get

1138
00:52:24,685 --> 00:52:27,745
professionals, get people that are just
trying to figure it out and share their

1139
00:52:27,745 --> 00:52:29,205
experiences and learn from each other.

1140
00:52:29,375 --> 00:52:31,355
And I think that's a huge part
of what we're trying to do.

1141
00:52:31,375 --> 00:52:32,335
So if you're interested.

1142
00:52:32,605 --> 00:52:36,345
Follow us there and are talking
about that, what we're doing.

1143
00:52:36,405 --> 00:52:37,365
You can follow me on Twitter.

1144
00:52:37,365 --> 00:52:42,244
That is usually where I tweet my
dumb dad jokes and try to be funny.

1145
00:52:42,475 --> 00:52:42,794
And you,

1146
00:52:42,925 --> 00:52:45,755
Adam Fishman: I mean, you've got a
lot of ammunition with five kids.

1147
00:52:45,765 --> 00:52:50,224
You Debbie, that you think an average
of one dad joke per kid per day.

1148
00:52:50,224 --> 00:52:51,325
That's a lot of dad jokes.

1149
00:52:51,325 --> 00:52:57,605
So some of it, well, we're going to get
into that in the next round, which is.

1150
00:52:58,145 --> 00:53:00,585
Are you ready for the rapid fire round?

1151
00:53:00,665 --> 00:53:02,545
This is one of my faves.

1152
00:53:02,855 --> 00:53:04,475
So here we go.

1153
00:53:05,455 --> 00:53:06,255
First question.

1154
00:53:06,265 --> 00:53:10,414
What is the most indispensable parenting
product that you have ever purchased?

1155
00:53:11,470 --> 00:53:13,330
Luke Millar: Double
stroller with great wheels.

1156
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:15,080
Number one, number two.

1157
00:53:15,100 --> 00:53:18,150
I know a lot of families do like,
Oh, we have an iPad that like we use

1158
00:53:18,150 --> 00:53:19,439
for trips or flights or whatever.

1159
00:53:19,549 --> 00:53:20,400
We did do that.

1160
00:53:20,410 --> 00:53:22,650
Didn't work with five kids
cause they just fought over it.

1161
00:53:22,870 --> 00:53:27,199
What we did was we actually
bought them all individual iPod

1162
00:53:27,250 --> 00:53:29,749
touch to take just for trips.

1163
00:53:30,295 --> 00:53:32,935
It's amazing because they can
just pick their own videos.

1164
00:53:33,085 --> 00:53:34,335
They don't have to fight over it.

1165
00:53:34,535 --> 00:53:35,855
They can carry it themselves.

1166
00:53:36,065 --> 00:53:36,935
Adam Fishman: Oh, huge.

1167
00:53:37,065 --> 00:53:37,205
Yeah.

1168
00:53:37,205 --> 00:53:39,354
The carry it themselves
thing is a big part of it.

1169
00:53:39,354 --> 00:53:40,665
Those iPads are pretty bulky.

1170
00:53:40,665 --> 00:53:41,695
So love that.

1171
00:53:42,045 --> 00:53:45,664
What is the most useless parenting
product that you've ever purchased?

1172
00:53:47,834 --> 00:53:50,654
Luke Millar: I can't think of
any dumb parenting products.

1173
00:53:50,874 --> 00:53:53,725
There are a lot of toys that we bought
that we thought our kids would like that

1174
00:53:53,725 --> 00:53:58,695
they didn't At all care for, but parenting
products, we actually didn't end up buying

1175
00:53:58,695 --> 00:54:04,414
a lot of the, like, you know, gimmicky,
whatever it was, you know, here's the

1176
00:54:04,414 --> 00:54:07,085
thing to help your kid roll over stuff.

1177
00:54:07,094 --> 00:54:08,595
Like, I don't know, we didn't
get a lot of that stuff.

1178
00:54:08,725 --> 00:54:09,925
We just kind of avoided it.

1179
00:54:09,955 --> 00:54:13,955
I can't think of any parenting products
that like really was a flop for us.

1180
00:54:13,975 --> 00:54:15,014
So I guess the advice

1181
00:54:15,015 --> 00:54:15,755
Adam Fishman: there might be,

1182
00:54:15,855 --> 00:54:15,995
Luke Millar: you

1183
00:54:15,995 --> 00:54:17,265
Adam Fishman: probably
don't need those things.

1184
00:54:17,665 --> 00:54:21,905
Most people, I 50 years ago and
people were, um, That's true.

1185
00:54:22,165 --> 00:54:22,595
I don't know.

1186
00:54:22,785 --> 00:54:24,835
All right, finish this sentence for me.

1187
00:54:24,935 --> 00:54:29,975
The ideal day with my kids
involves this one activity.

1188
00:54:30,575 --> 00:54:32,425
We're pretty big homebodies,

1189
00:54:32,515 --> 00:54:35,785
Luke Millar: like having a family
movie night, like where we all like

1190
00:54:35,785 --> 00:54:37,495
cuddle up on the couch is great.

1191
00:54:37,904 --> 00:54:38,925
We all kind of like that.

1192
00:54:39,004 --> 00:54:42,444
We like spending time together, board
games with family, big Disneyland fans.

1193
00:54:42,595 --> 00:54:43,615
That's probably the ideal.

1194
00:54:43,725 --> 00:54:44,155
Adam Fishman: Oh, nice.

1195
00:54:44,155 --> 00:54:44,575
Kids love it.

1196
00:54:44,805 --> 00:54:45,335
Okay.

1197
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:46,050
Cool.

1198
00:54:46,260 --> 00:54:49,490
What is the favorite age for your kids?

1199
00:54:49,490 --> 00:54:49,910
What has that

1200
00:54:49,910 --> 00:54:50,620
Luke Millar: been so far?

1201
00:54:51,300 --> 00:54:54,470
I wonder if people have the same
experience that I have where I always feel

1202
00:54:54,470 --> 00:54:56,320
like, Oh, now this is my favorite age.

1203
00:54:56,330 --> 00:54:58,830
And then as kids get older every
year, I'm like, No, no, no.

1204
00:54:58,830 --> 00:54:59,889
Maybe it's this one.

1205
00:55:00,100 --> 00:55:01,629
And it's always kind of fun.

1206
00:55:01,629 --> 00:55:04,260
Like every age, even as like
my oldest gets older, I'm

1207
00:55:04,260 --> 00:55:05,705
like, No, This is still fun.

1208
00:55:05,715 --> 00:55:08,155
Like now she's like a real
teenager and that's fun.

1209
00:55:08,435 --> 00:55:12,035
But my favorite age is probably two,
which is the age that everyone dislikes

1210
00:55:12,035 --> 00:55:13,745
for the most part, like terrible twos.

1211
00:55:13,815 --> 00:55:15,815
But I just, I freaking love it.

1212
00:55:16,095 --> 00:55:16,305
It's awesome.

1213
00:55:16,345 --> 00:55:16,975
Wow.

1214
00:55:16,985 --> 00:55:17,914
They're like, they're fun.

1215
00:55:17,935 --> 00:55:19,164
They're hilarious.

1216
00:55:19,195 --> 00:55:21,885
They can start talking and
they're trying to communicate.

1217
00:55:22,475 --> 00:55:25,065
They love to get like
tickled and squeezed and

1218
00:55:25,265 --> 00:55:25,895
Adam Fishman: amazing.

1219
00:55:26,005 --> 00:55:30,285
This may be the first time anyone has ever
chosen two as the age on this podcast.

1220
00:55:30,365 --> 00:55:30,744
I know.

1221
00:55:31,215 --> 00:55:33,065
I get that I'm abnormal there.

1222
00:55:33,165 --> 00:55:34,305
Luke Millar: My wife
doesn't agree with me.

1223
00:55:34,305 --> 00:55:38,865
So what is your least favorite age?

1224
00:55:39,885 --> 00:55:41,704
Also, maybe controversial newborns.

1225
00:55:41,855 --> 00:55:42,455
Not my thing.

1226
00:55:42,615 --> 00:55:43,265
Not fun.

1227
00:55:43,805 --> 00:55:44,685
Lisa loves them.

1228
00:55:44,735 --> 00:55:46,275
She's just like, ah, babies.

1229
00:55:46,295 --> 00:55:47,175
I just want to hold babies.

1230
00:55:47,175 --> 00:55:48,335
And I'm like, enjoy.

1231
00:55:48,705 --> 00:55:49,065
Have fun.

1232
00:55:49,105 --> 00:55:50,095
I'll see them in nine months.

1233
00:55:50,095 --> 00:55:50,494
I don't know.

1234
00:55:50,725 --> 00:55:51,845
Babies are nice.

1235
00:55:51,845 --> 00:55:52,495
They're cute, but.

1236
00:55:52,765 --> 00:55:53,295
Adam Fishman: Not that fun.

1237
00:55:53,355 --> 00:55:53,755
Yeah.

1238
00:55:53,995 --> 00:55:54,515
I get it.

1239
00:55:54,595 --> 00:55:55,035
I get it.

1240
00:55:55,255 --> 00:55:59,735
What is the most absurd thing
that a child in your household has

1241
00:55:59,735 --> 00:56:01,445
ever asked you to buy for them?

1242
00:56:01,795 --> 00:56:01,955
I don't know.

1243
00:56:01,995 --> 00:56:02,995
There's probably just lots

1244
00:56:02,995 --> 00:56:05,184
Luke Millar: of electronics that
they think that they should have

1245
00:56:05,184 --> 00:56:06,635
that they definitely shouldn't.

1246
00:56:07,045 --> 00:56:08,065
Others are like trips.

1247
00:56:08,085 --> 00:56:10,215
Like, wait, why aren't we going to?

1248
00:56:10,790 --> 00:56:11,310
Europe.

1249
00:56:11,410 --> 00:56:12,690
And it's like, what are you,
what are you talking about?

1250
00:56:13,310 --> 00:56:15,740
Like this, no family of seven to Europe.

1251
00:56:15,750 --> 00:56:16,560
What are you talking about?

1252
00:56:16,560 --> 00:56:16,820
Yeah.

1253
00:56:16,820 --> 00:56:18,380
To take out a second mortgage for that.

1254
00:56:18,410 --> 00:56:18,780
Yeah.

1255
00:56:18,830 --> 00:56:19,270
Yeah.

1256
00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:22,580
Just, you know, real misunderstanding
of how much things cost.

1257
00:56:23,590 --> 00:56:24,160
Adam Fishman: That's okay.

1258
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:25,710
They'll get an appreciation for it.

1259
00:56:25,710 --> 00:56:26,300
Eventually.

1260
00:56:26,700 --> 00:56:29,179
What is your favorite kids movie?

1261
00:56:29,590 --> 00:56:30,250
I really

1262
00:56:30,810 --> 00:56:34,060
Luke Millar: enjoyed
Inside Out was really good.

1263
00:56:35,090 --> 00:56:35,940
I like that movie a lot.

1264
00:56:35,960 --> 00:56:36,870
My kids liked that movie.

1265
00:56:37,040 --> 00:56:40,130
Encanto was fun just because I don't
know, we listened to the music.

1266
00:56:40,290 --> 00:56:41,550
That music didn't get old to me.

1267
00:56:41,630 --> 00:56:41,789
I don't know.

1268
00:56:42,060 --> 00:56:43,480
A lot of the movies did that one didn't.

1269
00:56:43,489 --> 00:56:44,359
So I was fine

1270
00:56:44,359 --> 00:56:44,750
Adam Fishman: with that one.

1271
00:56:44,810 --> 00:56:46,029
Inside Out and Encanto.

1272
00:56:46,029 --> 00:56:48,160
You know, they're making
a sequel to Inside Out.

1273
00:56:48,489 --> 00:56:48,679
I

1274
00:56:48,680 --> 00:56:49,290
Luke Millar: know my kids,

1275
00:56:49,730 --> 00:56:50,150
Adam Fishman: yeah.

1276
00:56:50,270 --> 00:56:51,080
Talk about it every day.

1277
00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:51,760
Can't wait.

1278
00:56:52,260 --> 00:56:53,730
Also a favorite movie of mine.

1279
00:56:54,100 --> 00:56:57,479
What is your worst experience?

1280
00:56:58,070 --> 00:57:03,650
Assembling a kid's toy or a
piece of children's furniture.

1281
00:57:04,340 --> 00:57:05,980
Luke Millar: Oh, so many.

1282
00:57:06,130 --> 00:57:07,359
I actually kind of enjoy it.

1283
00:57:07,359 --> 00:57:09,200
It feels like a puzzle and so does Lisa.

1284
00:57:09,210 --> 00:57:13,670
So we usually end up doing those
as like joint activities, which

1285
00:57:13,670 --> 00:57:15,859
is makes them more enjoyable.

1286
00:57:16,190 --> 00:57:18,450
The hardest actually
was this last Christmas.

1287
00:57:20,335 --> 00:57:25,345
Where we didn't totally think it through
and realize like really late Christmas

1288
00:57:25,345 --> 00:57:29,104
Eve that like, Oh no, all of our kids
had something that needed to be built.

1289
00:57:29,195 --> 00:57:30,114
Adam Fishman: Oh no.

1290
00:57:30,185 --> 00:57:32,725
Luke Millar: And it, Oh, this is
going to take us hours and hours.

1291
00:57:32,735 --> 00:57:34,335
And we didn't pre start.

1292
00:57:34,355 --> 00:57:36,125
It was, that was rough.

1293
00:57:36,165 --> 00:57:36,805
Yeah.

1294
00:57:36,924 --> 00:57:39,624
Well, it's like a desk,
a bike, this and that.

1295
00:57:39,624 --> 00:57:40,084
It's like, Oh

1296
00:57:40,084 --> 00:57:40,574
Adam Fishman: my gosh.

1297
00:57:40,584 --> 00:57:40,944
Oh no.

1298
00:57:41,014 --> 00:57:41,464
Okay.

1299
00:57:41,884 --> 00:57:44,394
Christmas morning, the kids
wake up, you're like, Hey, Santa

1300
00:57:44,394 --> 00:57:45,954
brought you a pile of stuff.

1301
00:57:46,474 --> 00:57:47,044
Exactly.

1302
00:57:47,064 --> 00:57:47,334
Yeah.

1303
00:57:48,374 --> 00:57:49,074
An art project.

1304
00:57:50,575 --> 00:57:52,855
Have you ever accidentally
mixed up your kids

1305
00:57:52,855 --> 00:57:53,405
Luke Millar: names?

1306
00:57:53,725 --> 00:57:54,865
Yeah, all the time.

1307
00:57:55,075 --> 00:57:56,625
I don't feel like I serially do it.

1308
00:57:56,635 --> 00:57:59,305
I remember my parents doing
it a ton when we were kids.

1309
00:58:00,035 --> 00:58:03,365
I don't feel like I always get
it wrong like they did, but yeah,

1310
00:58:03,825 --> 00:58:04,405
Adam Fishman: pretty regular.

1311
00:58:04,495 --> 00:58:04,945
Okay.

1312
00:58:05,455 --> 00:58:06,635
I think I'll allow that.

1313
00:58:06,645 --> 00:58:08,535
That seems permissible with five kids.

1314
00:58:08,545 --> 00:58:09,735
So yeah, sure.

1315
00:58:09,995 --> 00:58:16,284
Maybe this has already happened, but
what nostalgic movie can you just

1316
00:58:16,284 --> 00:58:18,714
not wait to force your kids to watch?

1317
00:58:19,755 --> 00:58:20,035
I got

1318
00:58:20,035 --> 00:58:20,225
Luke Millar: one.

1319
00:58:20,455 --> 00:58:21,095
We just started it.

1320
00:58:21,095 --> 00:58:21,645
It's not a movie.

1321
00:58:21,645 --> 00:58:22,315
It's a TV show.

1322
00:58:22,375 --> 00:58:22,945
Lost.

1323
00:58:23,365 --> 00:58:27,695
Um, I just started it with my older
two daughters, Maddie and Claire.

1324
00:58:27,785 --> 00:58:30,405
Um, yeah, it felt like it was time.

1325
00:58:30,424 --> 00:58:31,764
They weren't that excited about it.

1326
00:58:32,385 --> 00:58:33,465
We watched a couple episodes.

1327
00:58:33,465 --> 00:58:34,585
I was like, give it a couple episodes.

1328
00:58:34,595 --> 00:58:35,555
They're like locked in.

1329
00:58:35,565 --> 00:58:37,294
We're, we're cruising through now.

1330
00:58:37,315 --> 00:58:38,294
It's been a lot of fun.

1331
00:58:38,444 --> 00:58:41,745
Adam Fishman: Even, I don't want to spoil
it, but even knowing how Lost ends, you

1332
00:58:41,745 --> 00:58:43,855
were excited to start this with them, huh?

1333
00:58:44,275 --> 00:58:44,885
Oh, I was.

1334
00:58:44,925 --> 00:58:45,945
I'm, I'm a big fan.

1335
00:58:45,945 --> 00:58:46,555
I understand.

1336
00:58:46,835 --> 00:58:48,384
I totally understand why people aren't.

1337
00:58:48,675 --> 00:58:49,405
Yeah, I love it.

1338
00:58:49,615 --> 00:58:51,885
I have watched it as well, end to end.

1339
00:58:51,925 --> 00:58:53,665
So, it's a fantastic show.

1340
00:58:54,175 --> 00:58:57,595
How often do you tell your
kids back in my day stories?

1341
00:58:58,245 --> 00:59:00,765
Luke Millar: I try not to, I
make too much of an effort to

1342
00:59:00,765 --> 00:59:03,285
like, not be the annoying parent.

1343
00:59:03,735 --> 00:59:07,705
So I really try not to, I think
where I probably do it the most

1344
00:59:07,764 --> 00:59:10,615
is with music of like, no, no, no.

1345
00:59:10,615 --> 00:59:10,815
Yeah.

1346
00:59:10,815 --> 00:59:12,975
We're going to listen to third eye
blind and you're going to like it.

1347
00:59:13,285 --> 00:59:14,584
Just, you know, a lot of that stuff.

1348
00:59:15,045 --> 00:59:15,675
Adam Fishman: Yes.

1349
00:59:15,754 --> 00:59:19,485
I love that third eye blind
also for back in my day.

1350
00:59:19,805 --> 00:59:20,705
And finally.

1351
00:59:21,750 --> 00:59:27,760
With five children, I am curious to
hear, what is your take on minivans?

1352
00:59:28,630 --> 00:59:29,760
Luke Millar: Necessary evil.

1353
00:59:29,940 --> 00:59:30,980
We do have a minivan.

1354
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:33,510
We look forward to one
day not having a minivan.

1355
00:59:33,519 --> 00:59:35,480
Just the convenience of it is insane.

1356
00:59:35,490 --> 00:59:40,090
I think the biggest thing for me is
the sliding doors, because As soon

1357
00:59:40,090 --> 00:59:42,930
as we don't have those, our kids
just start banging the doors into the

1358
00:59:42,930 --> 00:59:44,210
cars next to us in the parking lot.

1359
00:59:44,470 --> 00:59:47,530
So like, just for that one feature,
that's the only thing I really care about.

1360
00:59:47,830 --> 00:59:52,480
But we do talk on, you know, dream of
the future when our kids are responsible

1361
00:59:52,480 --> 00:59:54,610
enough to have real doors and that
we don't have to have a minivan.

1362
00:59:55,920 --> 00:59:59,240
Adam Fishman: I think that is
the underrated value of the

1363
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:03,969
minivan is the fact that the
doors do not open up into traffic.

1364
01:00:04,390 --> 01:00:06,639
So you're not going to take out a biker.

1365
01:00:06,950 --> 01:00:08,910
You're not going to ding another car door.

1366
01:00:09,249 --> 01:00:11,770
And with the number of children
getting in and out of your car,

1367
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:13,140
that could be a lot of dings.

1368
01:00:13,310 --> 01:00:14,160
So, yep.

1369
01:00:14,340 --> 01:00:14,990
All right.

1370
01:00:15,230 --> 01:00:17,530
Well, that concludes rapid fire.

1371
01:00:17,670 --> 01:00:22,890
Luke, thank you so much for
taking the time to join me on

1372
01:00:22,920 --> 01:00:24,550
today's startup dad podcast.

1373
01:00:24,610 --> 01:00:30,340
I super appreciate it and good luck
to you, your family, your wife, and

1374
01:00:30,340 --> 01:00:31,689
your professional career at medium.

1375
01:00:32,420 --> 01:00:32,800
Thank you.

1376
01:00:34,350 --> 01:00:37,510
Thank you for listening to today's
conversation with Luke Millar.

1377
01:00:37,860 --> 01:00:40,740
If you enjoyed the show, please
subscribe, share, and leave me

1378
01:00:40,740 --> 01:00:41,909
a review on Apple or Spotify.

1379
01:00:42,819 --> 01:00:44,680
It'll help other people find this podcast.

1380
01:00:45,330 --> 01:00:49,450
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with editing support from Tommy Heron.

1381
01:00:49,899 --> 01:00:53,880
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1382
01:00:53,910 --> 01:00:59,230
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1383
01:00:59,230 --> 01:01:02,624
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1384
01:01:03,045 --> 01:01:04,635
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1385
01:01:05,195 --> 01:01:06,065
Thanks for listening.

1386
01:01:06,455 --> 01:01:07,090
See you next week.