Having Your First Kid At 22 And A Portfolio Management Approach To Parenting | Matt Wensing (father of 4, founder/CEO Summit)

1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,310
Matt Wensing: To do a startup,
you're choosing to climb

2
00:00:01,310 --> 00:00:02,610
Everest and something else.

3
00:00:02,610 --> 00:00:03,000
Okay.

4
00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:03,380
Right.

5
00:00:03,390 --> 00:00:04,800
That doesn't sound good to you.

6
00:00:04,810 --> 00:00:05,730
Like, don't do it.

7
00:00:05,770 --> 00:00:06,010
Right.

8
00:00:06,010 --> 00:00:09,080
But I'm not going to sit here and say
like, Oh yeah, I had eight hours of sleep.

9
00:00:09,090 --> 00:00:09,750
I exercise.

10
00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:10,360
I ate great.

11
00:00:10,389 --> 00:00:11,479
You know, kids love me.

12
00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:13,700
My wife thought I was
fulfilling every possible need.

13
00:00:13,700 --> 00:00:16,700
Like, no, not how it works.

14
00:00:16,709 --> 00:00:19,169
So yeah, you know, finite resources.

15
00:00:19,170 --> 00:00:19,439
Right.

16
00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:20,749
Allocate them wisely.

17
00:00:21,950 --> 00:00:26,889
Adam Fishman: Welcome to Startup Dad,
the podcast where we dive deep in the

18
00:00:26,889 --> 00:00:31,490
lives of dads who are also leaders in
the world of startups and business.

19
00:00:32,009 --> 00:00:33,740
I'm your host, Adam Fishman.

20
00:00:34,160 --> 00:00:37,619
In today's episode, I sat
down with Matt Quensing.

21
00:00:38,350 --> 00:00:42,840
For nearly 20 years, Matt has been
a founder and CEO, starting with

22
00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:45,040
founding a company called Risk Pulse.

23
00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:49,200
Where he now sits on the board to
today, where he is the founder and

24
00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:54,949
CEO of summit, a no code platform for
building tools and workflow automations.

25
00:00:55,030 --> 00:00:58,500
He's a loving husband and
the father of four teenagers.

26
00:00:59,129 --> 00:01:02,639
In our conversation today, we spoke
at length about getting married

27
00:01:02,639 --> 00:01:07,040
and having kids in your very early
twenties, how little he knew and

28
00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:09,160
how amazing it is to be a young dad.

29
00:01:09,505 --> 00:01:12,915
With children now in their teens,
we talked about how you have to

30
00:01:12,915 --> 00:01:14,675
eliminate the excess from your life.

31
00:01:14,735 --> 00:01:19,065
If you want to prioritize work and
family, and he uses a powerful metaphor

32
00:01:19,105 --> 00:01:21,565
around points allocation to describe it.

33
00:01:22,425 --> 00:01:27,105
We ended with two deep topics, helping
teens navigate a tech first world.

34
00:01:27,350 --> 00:01:31,750
Successfully, including a growing
awareness of the impact of social media

35
00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:37,380
on teenage girls and how losing one
of his own parents to cancer Unlocked

36
00:01:37,390 --> 00:01:39,370
some truths he didn't know before.

37
00:01:39,970 --> 00:01:42,990
Matt's stories were amazing
and I hope you enjoy them.

38
00:01:44,380 --> 00:01:49,690
I would like to welcome Matt
Wensing to the Startup Dad podcast.

39
00:01:49,710 --> 00:01:53,810
Matt, it is a pleasure Having you here,
thank you so much for joining me today.

40
00:01:54,310 --> 00:01:55,200
Thanks for having me, Adam.

41
00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:57,620
Let's dive in.

42
00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:03,770
You are the founder and CEO
of a company called Summit.

43
00:02:04,460 --> 00:02:06,689
I am very curious about this company.

44
00:02:06,700 --> 00:02:11,680
It is an AI company, as many
companies are these days.

45
00:02:11,950 --> 00:02:14,430
But it seems like maybe you've
always been an AI company.

46
00:02:14,710 --> 00:02:16,290
So tell me a little bit about Summit.

47
00:02:16,620 --> 00:02:17,940
Because I'm so curious about it.

48
00:02:17,950 --> 00:02:19,330
Matt Wensing: Yeah, well thank you.

49
00:02:19,390 --> 00:02:23,790
So Summit is a no code platform,
but compared to others, what we're

50
00:02:23,790 --> 00:02:26,509
focused on is not necessarily moving
data from one place to the other.

51
00:02:26,649 --> 00:02:28,810
Think of like your
Zapiers, your Makes, etc.

52
00:02:29,150 --> 00:02:33,159
We're focused on the interesting parts
in between, and the AI era, if you

53
00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:38,790
will, makes this incredibly interesting
because a lot of folks want to use AI

54
00:02:38,810 --> 00:02:40,420
within a workflow that they already have.

55
00:02:40,815 --> 00:02:42,415
You know, they have this workflow.

56
00:02:42,454 --> 00:02:43,055
It's automated.

57
00:02:43,055 --> 00:02:43,645
It's great.

58
00:02:43,755 --> 00:02:45,215
But now they have all these AI powers.

59
00:02:45,225 --> 00:02:46,905
They're like, how can I bring those in?

60
00:02:46,915 --> 00:02:48,825
You know, how do I just bring in
a little, we call it like a little

61
00:02:48,825 --> 00:02:52,034
surgical strike of AI, if you will,
into this workflow, which is gonna

62
00:02:52,034 --> 00:02:53,514
make it like five times better.

63
00:02:54,075 --> 00:02:58,434
And what we're enabling is,
it just becomes much easier to

64
00:02:58,434 --> 00:03:02,085
leverage AI within your Zaps,
within your HubSpot workflows, etc.

65
00:03:02,125 --> 00:03:04,745
And it's a no code platform, so you
don't have to be a developer to build it.

66
00:03:04,745 --> 00:03:07,360
So if you know how to build
automations and those, Yep.

67
00:03:07,390 --> 00:03:09,928
You can now use us to
enhance your automations.

68
00:03:09,928 --> 00:03:10,346
That's

69
00:03:10,346 --> 00:03:10,763
Adam Fishman: what

70
00:03:10,763 --> 00:03:11,181
Matt Wensing: we

71
00:03:11,181 --> 00:03:11,599
Adam Fishman: do.

72
00:03:11,680 --> 00:03:12,090
I love that.

73
00:03:12,090 --> 00:03:14,120
Probably helping a ton
of companies out there.

74
00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:17,810
And you've been in business
for four plus years?

75
00:03:17,820 --> 00:03:18,420
Four years.

76
00:03:18,420 --> 00:03:18,700
Yeah.

77
00:03:19,090 --> 00:03:19,440
Yeah.

78
00:03:19,450 --> 00:03:19,769
Awesome.

79
00:03:19,810 --> 00:03:20,579
Matt Wensing: These are never short

80
00:03:20,579 --> 00:03:21,070
Adam Fishman: journeys.

81
00:03:21,070 --> 00:03:22,519
No,

82
00:03:22,519 --> 00:03:22,590
Matt Wensing: no.

83
00:03:22,590 --> 00:03:22,829
For some of

84
00:03:22,829 --> 00:03:23,010
Adam Fishman: us.

85
00:03:23,179 --> 00:03:27,060
I saw that you were like a very
long term founder before that.

86
00:03:27,079 --> 00:03:29,040
So we're going to get
into all of this stuff.

87
00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:29,420
All right.

88
00:03:29,420 --> 00:03:33,289
So that is probably the last work topic
that we're going to talk about on the

89
00:03:33,290 --> 00:03:35,539
show because this is a parenting podcast.

90
00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,994
So I'm going to go all the
way back in the timeline here.

91
00:03:39,185 --> 00:03:42,015
And ask you about your life growing up.

92
00:03:42,025 --> 00:03:43,825
What was Matt like as a kid?

93
00:03:44,725 --> 00:03:45,135
Matt Wensing: Oh man.

94
00:03:46,555 --> 00:03:48,575
Uh, I'll say very introverted.

95
00:03:48,644 --> 00:03:52,245
Growing up probably resonates
with a lot of other folks.

96
00:03:52,274 --> 00:03:53,295
Listening perhaps.

97
00:03:53,335 --> 00:03:56,944
I was, you know, consumed
with, I loved to draw.

98
00:03:56,954 --> 00:03:57,514
I loved art.

99
00:03:57,544 --> 00:04:01,225
I was the kid in elementary school that
when art class happened, kids would

100
00:04:01,225 --> 00:04:04,085
kind of come around my desk and see
what I was doing and making and drawing.

101
00:04:04,085 --> 00:04:07,495
I was blessed with, with the
gift of kind of art and drawing.

102
00:04:07,505 --> 00:04:08,445
My dad gave me that.

103
00:04:08,454 --> 00:04:09,315
He's an architect.

104
00:04:10,020 --> 00:04:14,120
And really always loved
art and engineering.

105
00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:18,010
I think as a result, I kind of always
saw things and things that were made

106
00:04:18,010 --> 00:04:24,539
as like a combination of aesthetics
and design and real physics and my

107
00:04:24,539 --> 00:04:25,769
dad was really influential in that.

108
00:04:25,780 --> 00:04:27,450
And then I say my mom gave me the gift.

109
00:04:27,450 --> 00:04:31,075
She's 100 percent Hungarian and
gave me the gift of You know what?

110
00:04:31,075 --> 00:04:35,205
You got to actually put yourself out
there in life and talk and engage

111
00:04:35,224 --> 00:04:37,745
and travel and all these things.

112
00:04:37,745 --> 00:04:42,124
So from her side, I got the well,
things don't just happen on their own.

113
00:04:42,204 --> 00:04:45,664
You actually have to come out of
your shell, you know, stop playing

114
00:04:45,664 --> 00:04:46,985
video games for a while ago.

115
00:04:46,985 --> 00:04:48,584
Tell somebody what you made, right?

116
00:04:49,055 --> 00:04:51,699
So kind of a very otherwise typical.

117
00:04:52,010 --> 00:04:56,130
Suburban 80s and 90s kid latchkey kid
came home to an empty house and had to

118
00:04:56,130 --> 00:05:00,570
figure out what to do, do my chores, ride
my bike around the neighborhood until

119
00:05:00,570 --> 00:05:02,619
it got dark, kind of miss those days.

120
00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:03,799
Yeah,

121
00:05:03,890 --> 00:05:05,879
Adam Fishman: yeah,
that is a foregone era.

122
00:05:05,889 --> 00:05:07,909
I think for a lot of parents.

123
00:05:07,919 --> 00:05:09,459
So totally you grew up in the U.

124
00:05:09,459 --> 00:05:09,669
S.

125
00:05:09,669 --> 00:05:10,710
What part of the country did you

126
00:05:10,789 --> 00:05:10,819
Matt Wensing: grew

127
00:05:10,820 --> 00:05:11,049
Adam Fishman: up

128
00:05:11,049 --> 00:05:11,229
Matt Wensing: in?

129
00:05:11,500 --> 00:05:12,810
Uh, grew up in south florida.

130
00:05:12,950 --> 00:05:16,090
So I always like to say about an hour
north of Miami West Palm Beach area.

131
00:05:16,179 --> 00:05:17,409
Yeah, a lot of family down there.

132
00:05:17,859 --> 00:05:18,370
Adam Fishman: All right.

133
00:05:18,370 --> 00:05:18,419
Mhm.

134
00:05:18,650 --> 00:05:19,010
Awesome.

135
00:05:19,010 --> 00:05:22,290
Did you have any siblings or
any, anybody to beat up on

136
00:05:22,290 --> 00:05:23,410
when you got home from school?

137
00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:24,660
Matt Wensing: I was the youngest.

138
00:05:24,730 --> 00:05:25,990
So you got the beating

139
00:05:25,990 --> 00:05:26,150
Adam Fishman: up

140
00:05:26,150 --> 00:05:27,590
Matt Wensing: on, I did.

141
00:05:27,609 --> 00:05:28,070
I did.

142
00:05:28,070 --> 00:05:31,229
My brother was four years older
and I feel like he was, we

143
00:05:31,229 --> 00:05:32,499
would definitely have our spats.

144
00:05:32,539 --> 00:05:34,390
We were more different than similar.

145
00:05:34,390 --> 00:05:37,080
And so I think that actually was
like a pressure release valve where

146
00:05:37,740 --> 00:05:39,330
he was great at the things I wasn't.

147
00:05:39,340 --> 00:05:40,220
We would do stuff together.

148
00:05:40,220 --> 00:05:42,710
We'd hang out all summer at
the grandparents house, build

149
00:05:42,710 --> 00:05:44,190
forts, do fun stuff like that.

150
00:05:44,190 --> 00:05:46,500
And the Carolinas and
Georgia made great memories.

151
00:05:46,500 --> 00:05:48,760
My siblings, we fought a little bit.

152
00:05:49,055 --> 00:05:53,815
But mostly we're just friends and I
think having that gap relieved some

153
00:05:53,815 --> 00:05:56,245
of that like competition, if you will.

154
00:05:56,255 --> 00:05:57,415
It was never really a competition.

155
00:05:57,485 --> 00:05:58,095
I'll say that.

156
00:05:58,105 --> 00:05:59,205
That's probably the best description.

157
00:05:59,205 --> 00:06:00,955
It was, he can drive now.

158
00:06:01,125 --> 00:06:01,565
Cool.

159
00:06:01,605 --> 00:06:04,484
You know, he could take me somewhere
or, you know, we would do things

160
00:06:04,484 --> 00:06:06,305
together, but we were never competing.

161
00:06:06,735 --> 00:06:07,715
Which I think was a good thing.

162
00:06:07,945 --> 00:06:08,295
Adam Fishman: Yeah.

163
00:06:08,365 --> 00:06:11,575
Matt Wensing: And does your brother have
a family and does he live near you or?

164
00:06:11,585 --> 00:06:12,415
He does.

165
00:06:12,585 --> 00:06:12,975
Yeah.

166
00:06:12,975 --> 00:06:14,425
So brother and sister.

167
00:06:14,425 --> 00:06:16,765
So my sister's eight years
older than me, actually.

168
00:06:16,774 --> 00:06:17,745
My brother's four years older.

169
00:06:17,745 --> 00:06:19,935
So my sister is a doctor in South Florida.

170
00:06:20,224 --> 00:06:22,694
So she lives across the street from
where my parents lived for a while.

171
00:06:23,124 --> 00:06:24,284
And so she's practicing there.

172
00:06:24,284 --> 00:06:26,625
And then my brother is
a firefighter paramedic.

173
00:06:26,844 --> 00:06:29,935
He's actually about to Get his
what they call retirement drop.

174
00:06:29,935 --> 00:06:32,705
So he's actually about
to be done with service.

175
00:06:32,775 --> 00:06:33,195
Yeah.

176
00:06:33,215 --> 00:06:35,915
He started really young, right
out of college, 19 years old.

177
00:06:36,294 --> 00:06:38,025
And he will have had 20, what is it?

178
00:06:38,025 --> 00:06:40,114
25 years of service or
something like that.

179
00:06:40,624 --> 00:06:42,045
Whatever it is coming up here.

180
00:06:42,115 --> 00:06:45,715
So full pension, all that good stuff,
but well deserved and well earned.

181
00:06:46,235 --> 00:06:48,655
And he has a daughter and a
wife down there in Florida.

182
00:06:48,665 --> 00:06:49,225
So we go visit.

183
00:06:50,075 --> 00:06:50,605
Adam Fishman: Okay.

184
00:06:50,875 --> 00:06:55,944
Well, you have a partner and
four kids, which is double the

185
00:06:55,945 --> 00:06:57,405
number of children that I have.

186
00:06:57,830 --> 00:07:01,530
They're all teenagers, which is also fun.

187
00:07:01,530 --> 00:07:03,679
So you've got like a
house full of teenagers.

188
00:07:04,330 --> 00:07:07,789
I'm curious, how did you and
your wife meet each other?

189
00:07:08,299 --> 00:07:09,999
Matt Wensing: So this
answer is, used to be weird.

190
00:07:10,019 --> 00:07:12,259
So back in 2001, 2 and 3.

191
00:07:12,259 --> 00:07:13,309
So we met in 2001.

192
00:07:13,759 --> 00:07:18,049
And in 2001, or more like 2002, when
we were dating, basically, and I

193
00:07:18,049 --> 00:07:19,280
told people, hey, how'd you meet?

194
00:07:19,650 --> 00:07:20,919
I say, we met on the internet.

195
00:07:21,595 --> 00:07:24,255
And people thought that was the
weirdest thing in the world because

196
00:07:25,175 --> 00:07:28,835
you don't meet serious lifelong
friends and partners on the internet.

197
00:07:29,045 --> 00:07:31,935
Like, you know, there was no dating
apps or anything, but we met on a

198
00:07:32,525 --> 00:07:33,904
message board, believe it or not.

199
00:07:33,935 --> 00:07:37,629
It was like, Sleepless in Seattle,
practically like the last era

200
00:07:37,629 --> 00:07:39,489
of that shows how old I am.

201
00:07:39,580 --> 00:07:42,969
And yeah, we didn't actually meet
each other in person until we had

202
00:07:42,969 --> 00:07:46,849
sent back a bunch of like, you know,
correspondence and chat messages.

203
00:07:46,854 --> 00:07:46,935
Mm-Hmm.

204
00:07:47,015 --> 00:07:47,630
and that whole thing.

205
00:07:47,635 --> 00:07:48,050
And yeah.

206
00:07:48,055 --> 00:07:50,270
Then we met in person
and we got married young.

207
00:07:50,420 --> 00:07:52,840
So I think three years
later we got married

208
00:07:53,260 --> 00:07:54,010
Adam Fishman: and Wow.

209
00:07:54,159 --> 00:07:54,760
That was that.

210
00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:55,150
Wow.

211
00:07:55,570 --> 00:07:56,169
. Okay.

212
00:07:56,500 --> 00:07:58,990
So that is one of the
reasons that I reached out.

213
00:07:58,990 --> 00:08:00,940
I saw you talking about.

214
00:08:01,349 --> 00:08:06,109
having kids at a very young age, which
also implied, I think, for you that

215
00:08:06,109 --> 00:08:07,989
you got married at a really young age.

216
00:08:08,030 --> 00:08:13,080
So how old were you when you had
your now 19 year old daughter?

217
00:08:13,500 --> 00:08:13,939
So she was

218
00:08:13,939 --> 00:08:19,130
Matt Wensing: born in July of 2004
and I turned 23 in November of 04.

219
00:08:19,130 --> 00:08:20,130
So I was 22 years old.

220
00:08:20,679 --> 00:08:21,440
Wow.

221
00:08:21,780 --> 00:08:21,969
And

222
00:08:21,969 --> 00:08:25,810
Adam Fishman: you and your wife had
gotten married a year or two before that?

223
00:08:26,150 --> 00:08:27,159
I think we were 21.

224
00:08:27,725 --> 00:08:28,365
Wow.

225
00:08:28,495 --> 00:08:29,115
Okay.

226
00:08:29,295 --> 00:08:35,385
I don't think I had the mental
and emotional capacity to

227
00:08:35,395 --> 00:08:37,885
be married at the age of 21.

228
00:08:38,005 --> 00:08:38,624
I did either.

229
00:08:38,625 --> 00:08:38,825
I mean,

230
00:08:40,604 --> 00:08:42,975
Matt Wensing: If my wife were in the
room, she'd quickly say, We didn't

231
00:08:42,975 --> 00:08:44,125
know what we were doing either.

232
00:08:44,125 --> 00:08:45,455
And I think that's so true.

233
00:08:45,495 --> 00:08:46,164
It's so true.

234
00:08:46,464 --> 00:08:47,295
We didn't.

235
00:08:47,355 --> 00:08:52,069
I think we were like, We were two trees
that had barely started to grow and we

236
00:08:52,069 --> 00:08:53,380
just got planted next to each other.

237
00:08:53,380 --> 00:08:53,810
Almost.

238
00:08:53,810 --> 00:08:58,630
It was like, yeah, well, we're either
gonna like blend together here or

239
00:08:58,630 --> 00:09:01,900
not, you know, and we changed a lot.

240
00:09:01,950 --> 00:09:05,609
But that was what it was more
like that than like, uh, a lot

241
00:09:05,609 --> 00:09:06,679
of other metaphors you could use.

242
00:09:06,699 --> 00:09:09,010
But, you know, we were very
malleable still ourselves.

243
00:09:09,020 --> 00:09:09,609
Yeah.

244
00:09:09,620 --> 00:09:18,709
Adam Fishman: What was the Decision like
at 21 to get married and then a year later

245
00:09:18,859 --> 00:09:24,450
to start a family like, is there something
about something in your background or

246
00:09:24,450 --> 00:09:28,200
in your wife's background that was just
like, yeah, this is normal and this is

247
00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:30,920
what we're going to do at 21, you know,

248
00:09:31,090 --> 00:09:31,320
Matt Wensing: it's

249
00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:31,450
Adam Fishman: time.

250
00:09:32,390 --> 00:09:36,250
Matt Wensing: I wouldn't say it was
in my background so much a little bit.

251
00:09:36,260 --> 00:09:36,800
My wife's.

252
00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:38,699
I mean, we both ended up.

253
00:09:39,415 --> 00:09:42,995
In a pretty, I'd say like conservative
culture by the time we were in

254
00:09:42,995 --> 00:09:44,595
our late teens and early twenties.

255
00:09:44,625 --> 00:09:48,704
And you know, just the whole
mindset towards dating and

256
00:09:48,704 --> 00:09:49,915
relationships and all that.

257
00:09:49,954 --> 00:09:53,675
It's a lot of like, and I think it's
changed now, but like 20 years ago,

258
00:09:53,754 --> 00:09:58,920
it was Pretty extreme in that sense
of like, you know, it just there

259
00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:02,320
just wasn't that like, Hey, you know,
date a bunch of people experiment,

260
00:10:02,350 --> 00:10:05,280
see who you like, like, you know,
feel yourself out that kind of thing.

261
00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:09,700
It was very like everything's so serious
and everything's, you know, this is

262
00:10:09,700 --> 00:10:11,300
either something big or it's not.

263
00:10:11,309 --> 00:10:13,949
And so we kind of went
into it with that mindset.

264
00:10:14,150 --> 00:10:20,090
And so it was just like, yeah, it's weird
to say that out loud now looking back,

265
00:10:20,090 --> 00:10:21,200
but that's just where our heads were at.

266
00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,620
It was very like we took
it really seriously.

267
00:10:23,620 --> 00:10:27,229
And I think that can be really so we
were in a friend group at the time.

268
00:10:27,770 --> 00:10:29,570
And sadly, I'd say.

269
00:10:30,079 --> 00:10:32,470
The majority, I don't know
if it's actually majority.

270
00:10:32,470 --> 00:10:36,579
I hate to say statistical words that
aren't true nerd, but I would say a lot

271
00:10:36,579 --> 00:10:40,170
of the friends that we had in our group
growing up, they took the same approach.

272
00:10:40,959 --> 00:10:42,589
They didn't, it didn't end up well, right?

273
00:10:42,629 --> 00:10:45,829
Like two years later, three years,
five, 10 years, it didn't end up well.

274
00:10:45,829 --> 00:10:47,559
So like, that is not a recipe for success.

275
00:10:47,599 --> 00:10:52,885
That is not like a advice, you know,
It's what we did and we made it.

276
00:10:53,185 --> 00:10:54,715
You know, I wouldn't give that advice now.

277
00:10:54,735 --> 00:10:56,205
I'm not giving that advice to my kids now.

278
00:10:57,095 --> 00:10:57,945
Uh, yes.

279
00:10:57,975 --> 00:10:59,254
And my parents didn't give it to me.

280
00:10:59,255 --> 00:11:00,645
But you know, did I listen?

281
00:11:00,804 --> 00:11:01,154
No.

282
00:11:01,195 --> 00:11:01,885
Did it work out?

283
00:11:02,285 --> 00:11:02,815
Yes.

284
00:11:03,555 --> 00:11:03,815
Yes.

285
00:11:04,325 --> 00:11:06,595
But you know, I feel very fortunate.

286
00:11:06,895 --> 00:11:07,365
That it did.

287
00:11:07,595 --> 00:11:07,895
So,

288
00:11:07,995 --> 00:11:08,385
Adam Fishman: yeah.

289
00:11:08,704 --> 00:11:13,285
So your wife and you get, and by the
way, your wife's name is Skye, right?

290
00:11:13,285 --> 00:11:15,155
I want to refer to her as your wife.

291
00:11:15,164 --> 00:11:20,834
So Skye and you get married, pretty young,
barely able to legally drink alcohol at

292
00:11:20,835 --> 00:11:28,010
your wedding, and then th You decided to
start a family pretty shortly thereafter.

293
00:11:28,010 --> 00:11:29,490
What was that decision like?

294
00:11:30,939 --> 00:11:33,180
Matt Wensing: Well, well, remember,
we just got done saying that our,

295
00:11:33,189 --> 00:11:35,699
you know, intellectual mental
faculties weren't all there yet.

296
00:11:35,699 --> 00:11:37,370
So decision is a strong word.

297
00:11:37,739 --> 00:11:40,549
We always told our oldest, like,
you weren't an accident, but you

298
00:11:40,550 --> 00:11:42,279
weren't, like, by design either.

299
00:11:42,779 --> 00:11:45,670
I think it was sort of a, like,
we're married now, and we're

300
00:11:45,670 --> 00:11:46,990
not really afraid of anything.

301
00:11:47,290 --> 00:11:50,680
And so Let's just let
life happen kind of thing.

302
00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:53,850
So yeah, I think at the
time I had a part time job.

303
00:11:53,930 --> 00:11:57,730
I remember I was making 10 an hour
at one job, 12 an hour at another.

304
00:11:58,155 --> 00:11:59,105
No benefits.

305
00:11:59,195 --> 00:12:01,405
She had also a similar situation.

306
00:12:01,405 --> 00:12:05,455
So yeah, we were just living in a little
apartment in the suburbs of Chicago

307
00:12:06,115 --> 00:12:07,884
and quote unquote made that decision.

308
00:12:07,884 --> 00:12:11,805
But again, it was more of a, you
know, what can life do to us?

309
00:12:11,814 --> 00:12:12,814
We're invincible, right?

310
00:12:12,895 --> 00:12:13,425
We'll be fine.

311
00:12:13,874 --> 00:12:14,655
We're going to be fine.

312
00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:15,750
That was my mantra.

313
00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:16,439
It still is.

314
00:12:16,750 --> 00:12:17,449
It's going to be fine.

315
00:12:17,479 --> 00:12:22,079
So, so not the types to
worry too much in that sense.

316
00:12:22,600 --> 00:12:27,139
Adam Fishman: So you're barely out of
college when you have your first kid.

317
00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:29,180
You're in your early 20s.

318
00:12:29,589 --> 00:12:31,800
And this is, you know, I had kids.

319
00:12:32,005 --> 00:12:36,085
Relatively early by Bay Area
standards, but I was still in my

320
00:12:36,085 --> 00:12:39,085
late 20s when our daughter was born.

321
00:12:39,135 --> 00:12:45,184
And so I'm curious, you now
have a 19 year old, a 15 year

322
00:12:45,185 --> 00:12:47,284
old, and two twin 13 year olds.

323
00:12:47,345 --> 00:12:48,244
13 year olds, right.

324
00:12:48,245 --> 00:12:52,054
So you've got a full house in all senses.

325
00:12:52,085 --> 00:12:57,275
When you think back on the last like 20
years and having kids at a really young

326
00:12:57,385 --> 00:13:01,255
age, what are some of the reflections
that you have on that decision?

327
00:13:01,765 --> 00:13:05,135
And kind of like what it
means to be a young dad.

328
00:13:05,415 --> 00:13:09,594
I mean, your kids are not too far
away from being out of the house

329
00:13:09,635 --> 00:13:11,025
and you're still a pretty young guy.

330
00:13:11,064 --> 00:13:11,464
Matt Wensing: Yeah.

331
00:13:11,694 --> 00:13:14,045
So I took my son to my second drive.

332
00:13:14,074 --> 00:13:16,964
Now he's got a car, he's got
a summertime job coming up.

333
00:13:16,964 --> 00:13:19,134
You need to go for a drug
test for that mandatory thing.

334
00:13:19,554 --> 00:13:20,874
So we need to go to this clinic.

335
00:13:20,875 --> 00:13:22,025
So I'm like, you're driving.

336
00:13:22,074 --> 00:13:23,115
So I get in the car.

337
00:13:23,420 --> 00:13:24,380
Eating my snack.

338
00:13:24,390 --> 00:13:26,150
He's driving us to his thing.

339
00:13:26,470 --> 00:13:28,990
He's gonna, he's yeah, 15.

340
00:13:29,170 --> 00:13:31,100
Wait, this year, this is what happens.

341
00:13:31,100 --> 00:13:31,480
Actually.

342
00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:35,179
You start like, he just turned
six, he just turned 16, actually.

343
00:13:35,179 --> 00:13:36,259
So I screwed up the doc.

344
00:13:36,259 --> 00:13:39,690
This is what happens when you're,
so he turned 16 in February.

345
00:13:40,064 --> 00:13:42,405
Okay, I rolled by and I just
like went right through it.

346
00:13:42,405 --> 00:13:44,064
So it's just another birthday of

347
00:13:44,095 --> 00:13:44,385
Adam Fishman: among

348
00:13:44,395 --> 00:13:44,625
Matt Wensing: many.

349
00:13:44,625 --> 00:13:45,975
Yeah, yeah, exactly.

350
00:13:45,985 --> 00:13:47,865
So he turned 16 a couple months ago.

351
00:13:47,865 --> 00:13:49,535
And so he's that's why he has his license.

352
00:13:49,535 --> 00:13:49,745
Now.

353
00:13:49,745 --> 00:13:50,255
He's driving.

354
00:13:50,465 --> 00:13:51,174
Anyway, we get there.

355
00:13:51,175 --> 00:13:54,145
We go to the front thing and the guy
goes, I said, since he's a minor,

356
00:13:54,325 --> 00:13:57,305
you know, do I go back there with him
when they call his name kind of thing?

357
00:13:57,314 --> 00:14:00,045
Because like as a parent, that's
kind of a new experience and he goes.

358
00:14:00,335 --> 00:14:01,225
What's your relation?

359
00:14:02,015 --> 00:14:03,705
I was like, father.

360
00:14:03,795 --> 00:14:07,315
He's and he goes, Oh, seriously, sir.

361
00:14:07,355 --> 00:14:10,265
I thought maybe you were his like
older brother or something like that.

362
00:14:10,265 --> 00:14:10,815
Yeah, I go.

363
00:14:10,815 --> 00:14:11,565
Well, okay.

364
00:14:11,745 --> 00:14:12,654
Taking a step back.

365
00:14:12,705 --> 00:14:13,965
He plays varsity football.

366
00:14:14,385 --> 00:14:16,939
He's like 511 172.

367
00:14:17,180 --> 00:14:17,829
Five.

368
00:14:18,990 --> 00:14:19,859
He's a big kid.

369
00:14:20,099 --> 00:14:23,209
It does not look like he could possibly
descended for me at this point.

370
00:14:23,229 --> 00:14:24,930
And I'm like, no, this is actually my son.

371
00:14:24,939 --> 00:14:27,069
So, so those things are happening now.

372
00:14:27,290 --> 00:14:28,099
It's fun.

373
00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:29,260
It's always been a lot of fun.

374
00:14:29,260 --> 00:14:33,109
I would say having the energy to
live through twins was really nice.

375
00:14:33,420 --> 00:14:38,660
I couldn't obviously life finds a way,
but doing that now would be harder.

376
00:14:39,060 --> 00:14:42,430
Keeping up with them is fun, but from
their perspective, I think one really

377
00:14:42,430 --> 00:14:46,950
nice thing is our kids when they were
born were all born into circumstances that

378
00:14:46,950 --> 00:14:48,730
were not as comfortable as they are now.

379
00:14:49,330 --> 00:14:52,999
And so you can't go back and I'm
not saying this is a requirement

380
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:53,950
or anything, but just like.

381
00:14:54,650 --> 00:14:57,109
Encouragement for people who maybe are
thinking about it or have kids young,

382
00:14:57,900 --> 00:15:00,880
it tends to be the case, especially
if you work in tech or elsewhere that

383
00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:04,010
like you earn more as you go, like you
become more senior life gets easier.

384
00:15:04,010 --> 00:15:05,899
You know, you can buy them
the car now kind of thing.

385
00:15:05,900 --> 00:15:08,709
But when our twins were born, we
were in a two bedroom apartment.

386
00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:12,599
We were sort of stepping over
things and there were a lot of

387
00:15:12,599 --> 00:15:13,880
things we just couldn't do a lot.

388
00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:16,139
You know, our first family
vacations were not yeah.

389
00:15:16,660 --> 00:15:18,050
You know, whistler ski trips.

390
00:15:18,079 --> 00:15:21,719
They were, let's go to the state park
in the minivan and, you know, put up

391
00:15:21,719 --> 00:15:27,709
a tent like bike around and, you know,
figure out what's fun about the bugs

392
00:15:27,709 --> 00:15:29,150
that are crawling around or the creek.

393
00:15:29,189 --> 00:15:32,629
And so you like get that
experience as a kid.

394
00:15:32,829 --> 00:15:36,344
And I think some of those experiences,
frankly, are a lot of fun.

395
00:15:36,344 --> 00:15:36,434
Yeah.

396
00:15:37,105 --> 00:15:40,265
More challenging might be the wrong word.

397
00:15:40,265 --> 00:15:44,285
But just like we said in the intro to
my life, it's the I have to kind of

398
00:15:44,295 --> 00:15:48,175
make do with less things around me.

399
00:15:48,234 --> 00:15:51,165
And you know, especially in
a larger family when you sort

400
00:15:51,165 --> 00:15:52,235
of have less to go around.

401
00:15:52,474 --> 00:15:54,144
I just think they got that
experience and I'm glad.

402
00:15:54,144 --> 00:15:56,254
So like the oldest one,
especially she's 19.

403
00:15:56,265 --> 00:16:01,640
She remembers how life was, you know,
years ago and I'm glad she got to

404
00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:03,900
experience that is, you know, she's
now getting her first apartment.

405
00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:05,069
She's in college now.

406
00:16:05,750 --> 00:16:08,650
She's lived in a place before that
where she just had a little electric

407
00:16:08,650 --> 00:16:12,199
stove and whatever and not the
fancy face Samsung refrigerator.

408
00:16:12,199 --> 00:16:15,360
So she's not like not
used to life, you know?

409
00:16:15,380 --> 00:16:15,860
Yeah.

410
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:17,579
So that's one fun thing.

411
00:16:17,650 --> 00:16:22,030
And otherwise I would say, yeah,
just having the energy has been

412
00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:23,689
good kind of being with it.

413
00:16:24,300 --> 00:16:25,839
There's all those silver
linings, you know?

414
00:16:25,839 --> 00:16:27,709
And then yes, there's
all the downsides too.

415
00:16:27,729 --> 00:16:28,900
But those are the upsides.

416
00:16:29,229 --> 00:16:31,749
Adam Fishman: When you look at other
people who are sort of similarly

417
00:16:31,749 --> 00:16:37,050
aged to you, do many of them have,
you know, multiple teenage children

418
00:16:37,079 --> 00:16:39,079
or they have younger kids or,

419
00:16:39,430 --> 00:16:40,770
Matt Wensing: you know,
this is what happens.

420
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:42,010
It's funny that you say this.

421
00:16:42,020 --> 00:16:43,160
And this affects us, right?

422
00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:46,389
Because our friends as parents
of kids are often our parents.

423
00:16:47,069 --> 00:16:49,230
Kids', friends', parents, . Right.

424
00:16:49,230 --> 00:16:49,560
I got that.

425
00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:50,189
Right, right, right.

426
00:16:50,189 --> 00:16:50,760
I followed you.

427
00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:51,885
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

428
00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:56,349
And we all know, inevitably, sometimes,
or you know, you'll learn I'm not

429
00:16:56,349 --> 00:16:57,939
really friends with her anymore.

430
00:16:58,030 --> 00:17:00,189
And you're like, oh,
that's kind of awkward.

431
00:17:00,189 --> 00:17:02,709
Like I actually kind of
emotionally invested in that.

432
00:17:02,709 --> 00:17:05,890
Or you know, or we are friends or
we're going to different high schools

433
00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:06,880
'cause we're zoned differently.

434
00:17:06,885 --> 00:17:08,290
So I don't even really see them anymore.

435
00:17:08,730 --> 00:17:09,901
And so you're almost like in this.

436
00:17:10,500 --> 00:17:14,240
Washing machine of your own of like your
social group, as you said, like just based

437
00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:15,660
on where your kids are sort of attaching.

438
00:17:16,310 --> 00:17:17,990
But here's what happened on that.

439
00:17:17,990 --> 00:17:18,450
It's funny.

440
00:17:18,630 --> 00:17:23,360
So when our oldest was doing her first
things, we would show up to things and

441
00:17:23,369 --> 00:17:25,100
we were like in our early twenties.

442
00:17:25,100 --> 00:17:28,375
And, you know, we would regularly be
with parents who were like, Sometimes

443
00:17:28,375 --> 00:17:30,765
like 10, 15, 20 years older than us.

444
00:17:30,785 --> 00:17:33,055
Like sitting around a Jimboree
or whatever, a play date.

445
00:17:33,065 --> 00:17:36,485
And we're like, we're just not
even in the same generation.

446
00:17:36,565 --> 00:17:37,575
This is funny.

447
00:17:37,744 --> 00:17:38,585
And the parents are

448
00:17:38,585 --> 00:17:40,254
Adam Fishman: waiting for
you to jump in the ball pit.

449
00:17:40,305 --> 00:17:40,955
Exactly.

450
00:17:41,055 --> 00:17:41,225
Like

451
00:17:41,225 --> 00:17:43,565
Matt Wensing: they're like, you
must be the nanny or the oldest.

452
00:17:43,625 --> 00:17:46,074
Are you like, is this the young, do
you have like 11 kids and this is the

453
00:17:46,075 --> 00:17:47,415
youngest one and you're the oldest one?

454
00:17:47,424 --> 00:17:48,035
Like what is going on?

455
00:17:48,045 --> 00:17:49,335
You're the oldest cousin, I guess.

456
00:17:49,795 --> 00:17:52,735
And so then as they grew up, by
the time we get to the youngest

457
00:17:52,754 --> 00:17:54,944
now, you know, the 13 year olds.

458
00:17:55,475 --> 00:17:57,985
Their parents are a little bit
older than us, but what we basically

459
00:17:57,995 --> 00:18:01,294
find is that might be their
oldest or middle kid, you know?

460
00:18:01,334 --> 00:18:04,845
And so we used to ladders have kind
of shifted and aligned where we're

461
00:18:04,845 --> 00:18:06,114
getting closer in age to them.

462
00:18:06,114 --> 00:18:08,604
But then you find out that
like, Oh, this is our youngest.

463
00:18:08,625 --> 00:18:12,424
This is your oldest, or this is your
whatever, but we're closer in age now.

464
00:18:12,424 --> 00:18:16,365
And that's kind of fun too, because
those were, those are, I would realize

465
00:18:16,375 --> 00:18:19,085
though, as I go out and hang out with
some of those guys or whatever, and

466
00:18:19,095 --> 00:18:23,435
they're sitting there talking and like my
favorite music, if I'm being nostalgic,

467
00:18:23,435 --> 00:18:27,580
it's like, Oh yeah, like Pearl Jams,
Don't Tell the Pilots, like You know,

468
00:18:27,630 --> 00:18:29,060
there's a few that are maybe earlier.

469
00:18:29,540 --> 00:18:32,649
They're sitting there dropping like
the Led Zeppelin references and

470
00:18:32,649 --> 00:18:35,620
that this, and I'm like, I know
they're hits, but like, I don't know.

471
00:18:35,620 --> 00:18:36,409
They're deep cuts.

472
00:18:36,419 --> 00:18:39,970
Like we're, we're obviously
not the same generation, but

473
00:18:39,970 --> 00:18:40,469
Adam Fishman: it's fine.

474
00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:40,939
It's fine.

475
00:18:40,950 --> 00:18:42,899
Like I have those
conversations with anybody.

476
00:18:42,899 --> 00:18:46,270
So, yeah, you're like, can we go talk
about Soundgarden for a little bit?

477
00:18:46,279 --> 00:18:47,010
Yeah, exactly.

478
00:18:47,010 --> 00:18:48,200
Like, they're like, Oh

479
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:48,720
Matt Wensing: yeah, they were.

480
00:18:48,915 --> 00:18:53,125
I went to, I saw them live when
I was 23 and you're like, huh?

481
00:18:53,815 --> 00:18:55,365
You're like, yeah, exactly.

482
00:18:55,425 --> 00:18:57,655
Like I have, I borrowed my brother's CD.

483
00:18:57,805 --> 00:18:58,445
Yeah, exactly.

484
00:18:58,455 --> 00:18:59,375
When I was 12.

485
00:18:59,785 --> 00:19:00,545
So yeah, a

486
00:19:00,715 --> 00:19:01,055
Adam Fishman: little different.

487
00:19:01,935 --> 00:19:06,624
So if you were, if you can think
back to, you know, you're an early

488
00:19:06,625 --> 00:19:12,165
twenties parent and a lot of dads
don't talk about or think about the.

489
00:19:12,900 --> 00:19:15,950
Kind of emotions that come up
when you're a father for the first

490
00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:19,540
time or the second time or in your
case the third and fourth time.

491
00:19:19,870 --> 00:19:23,850
What sort of emotions arose
for you as an early 20s parent?

492
00:19:23,850 --> 00:19:28,399
Were you completely freaked out
because you were yourself so young?

493
00:19:28,410 --> 00:19:32,199
Or were you like, you know, you've
mentioned before like, hey, we got this.

494
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:33,220
We'll just roll with it.

495
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,980
But like, how do you think, you know,
that went for you as a young parent?

496
00:19:37,590 --> 00:19:38,639
Matt Wensing: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

497
00:19:38,639 --> 00:19:40,100
It reminds me of that Jurassic Park quote.

498
00:19:40,100 --> 00:19:42,449
It's like, it always sounds fun at
first, but then, like, what does

499
00:19:42,449 --> 00:19:45,310
he say, like, then the screaming
and the yelling and the whatever.

500
00:19:45,460 --> 00:19:45,560
Yeah.

501
00:19:45,710 --> 00:19:48,109
Yeah, yeah, like, it always starts fun.

502
00:19:48,649 --> 00:19:51,830
I think the naivety allowed me,
and I'll just speak for myself,

503
00:19:51,830 --> 00:19:53,970
to, like, jump into that pool.

504
00:19:53,985 --> 00:19:55,485
Pretty ignorantly.

505
00:19:55,515 --> 00:20:00,705
I think my wife being a woman and
being more mature in many ways,

506
00:20:00,705 --> 00:20:03,964
like kind of realized what it
was going to take before I did.

507
00:20:04,025 --> 00:20:12,095
Honestly, I think I was still living a
little bit of a college guys mentality

508
00:20:12,214 --> 00:20:13,704
life, not in the partying sense.

509
00:20:13,705 --> 00:20:15,304
I already said, like, I
went to a nerd school.

510
00:20:15,355 --> 00:20:15,995
I was a geek.

511
00:20:16,315 --> 00:20:16,925
I don't know about that.

512
00:20:16,935 --> 00:20:19,435
It was just like, Oh, I have free time.

513
00:20:19,445 --> 00:20:21,465
I can do stuff or whatever.

514
00:20:21,465 --> 00:20:22,155
I have this, right?

515
00:20:22,195 --> 00:20:26,630
I think the biggest thing that hit me
the soonest was just realizing that Just

516
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:30,150
a lot of the free time I had was gone.

517
00:20:30,890 --> 00:20:31,130
Yeah.

518
00:20:31,130 --> 00:20:33,830
It was, it was still there, but it
was going to be replaced by this

519
00:20:34,300 --> 00:20:37,470
life that needed me every 11 seconds.

520
00:20:37,500 --> 00:20:40,659
It felt like five minutes, 11
minutes, whatever it was, but there

521
00:20:40,659 --> 00:20:41,904
was no time for me to like it.

522
00:20:42,294 --> 00:20:47,854
You know, goodbye Madden 2004,
you know, see you in the future.

523
00:20:47,874 --> 00:20:52,024
Maybe kind of thing that was hard, you
know, like, oh yeah, I'm not going to see

524
00:20:52,024 --> 00:20:53,824
another live show again for a long time.

525
00:20:53,874 --> 00:20:57,034
I'm not going to, you know, just a
few outlets I had in that sense and

526
00:20:57,425 --> 00:20:59,304
my wife was extremely supportive.

527
00:20:59,344 --> 00:21:02,955
I supported her if we needed to get out
like we did that for each other for sure.

528
00:21:04,514 --> 00:21:05,834
You know, that's like a rarity.

529
00:21:05,864 --> 00:21:07,725
That's not like that's not every day.

530
00:21:08,264 --> 00:21:11,274
Pretty much every day you're in the
trenches with each other and you know

531
00:21:11,885 --> 00:21:15,315
if you can read it on your kindle while
you're wearing the ergo or something good

532
00:21:15,315 --> 00:21:19,554
for you but like you're not going to see
that movie at 11 o'clock showing that's

533
00:21:19,554 --> 00:21:23,414
not happening so yeah that was hard and
I think the other emotional thing was

534
00:21:23,424 --> 00:21:27,645
more like Accepting or realizing that
a lot of the advice that I was getting

535
00:21:28,754 --> 00:21:34,025
was only going to work some of the time
and we had kids that were very, I'm sure

536
00:21:34,025 --> 00:21:36,994
a lot of people say this, but like, let
me just say shout out to the parents who

537
00:21:36,994 --> 00:21:41,135
have the kids who are not like staring up
into space and just kind of waiting for

538
00:21:41,135 --> 00:21:44,485
the next thing, the ones who were like,
you can see it in their eyes that they're

539
00:21:44,485 --> 00:21:48,504
like, they're analyzing everything,
they're three steps ahead of everything,

540
00:21:49,024 --> 00:21:53,245
you know, and they know what's about
to happen before it happens somehow,

541
00:21:53,304 --> 00:21:54,675
even though it shouldn't be the case.

542
00:21:54,715 --> 00:21:55,034
And.

543
00:21:55,665 --> 00:21:57,315
They're testing you every moment.

544
00:21:57,575 --> 00:21:58,815
That's a different experience.

545
00:21:58,835 --> 00:22:02,645
And I would talk to friends, especially
friends who had, you know, a lot of

546
00:22:02,645 --> 00:22:06,034
children and you're like, Oh, you had a
lot of children because yours are kind of

547
00:22:06,034 --> 00:22:08,525
just waiting around for the next thing.

548
00:22:08,525 --> 00:22:09,785
Like, it's just a different thing.

549
00:22:10,535 --> 00:22:11,075
Adam Fishman: And you're handing

550
00:22:11,075 --> 00:22:13,274
Matt Wensing: me this book that
says how easy it is to sleep

551
00:22:13,305 --> 00:22:14,315
train and do this and do that.

552
00:22:14,315 --> 00:22:17,005
And I'm going, why am I at my wits end?

553
00:22:17,015 --> 00:22:20,165
And eventually over enough time,
I met other parents who go, Oh

554
00:22:20,165 --> 00:22:22,005
yeah, our kids are like that too.

555
00:22:22,015 --> 00:22:22,335
Yeah.

556
00:22:22,335 --> 00:22:27,170
Like, We understand, you know, and like
they have that glimmer in their eye at

557
00:22:27,170 --> 00:22:30,370
a very early age and you're like, okay,
so I'm not just a failure and I'm not

558
00:22:30,370 --> 00:22:31,950
just not able to follow the advice.

559
00:22:33,034 --> 00:22:35,784
It just turns out that nobody
wants to read or write a book about

560
00:22:36,215 --> 00:22:39,324
certain kinds of challenges, right?

561
00:22:40,094 --> 00:22:43,064
You couldn't make a lot of money
by saying like, and actually,

562
00:22:43,145 --> 00:22:45,415
I don't know how to do this.

563
00:22:45,425 --> 00:22:49,064
It's going to come down to
whatever play you got a call in

564
00:22:49,064 --> 00:22:50,194
the huddle as it's happening.

565
00:22:50,895 --> 00:22:51,785
Godspeed, right?

566
00:22:51,795 --> 00:22:52,435
Like what?

567
00:22:52,545 --> 00:22:54,395
Like, I want a refund.

568
00:22:54,445 --> 00:22:54,805
Yeah.

569
00:22:55,294 --> 00:22:55,885
So that was hard.

570
00:22:55,925 --> 00:22:57,985
I would say that was difficult.

571
00:22:58,165 --> 00:23:01,884
Feels like that's basically seven
years of emotions in seven minutes.

572
00:23:01,884 --> 00:23:02,314
Wow.

573
00:23:02,314 --> 00:23:02,743
Adam Fishman: Yeah.

574
00:23:02,743 --> 00:23:08,330
So you, you've been building companies
and growing a family since seven years.

575
00:23:08,330 --> 00:23:08,759
Yeah.

576
00:23:09,379 --> 00:23:13,570
By my calculations, like
2006 or so from some LinkedIn

577
00:23:13,570 --> 00:23:15,299
sleuthing that I did about you.

578
00:23:15,769 --> 00:23:21,659
What advice do you have for
people who are trying to do both?

579
00:23:22,899 --> 00:23:24,790
Matt Wensing: I like to think of
it as, like, character points.

580
00:23:24,830 --> 00:23:27,320
Okay, so you have this, like,
you get to design your character.

581
00:23:27,340 --> 00:23:29,660
You have, like, a hundred,
ten points to allocate.

582
00:23:29,660 --> 00:23:30,350
Let's keep it simple.

583
00:23:30,810 --> 00:23:31,020
Yeah.

584
00:23:31,030 --> 00:23:36,979
You've got your categories of,
like, hobbies, spouse, career, kids.

585
00:23:37,330 --> 00:23:40,719
You can only allocate ten
points across all four of those.

586
00:23:40,719 --> 00:23:40,760
Okay.

587
00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:45,010
And like anything less than a six
and you're probably not even going

588
00:23:45,010 --> 00:23:48,500
to be able to make like You're going
to be able to tread water with like a

589
00:23:48,500 --> 00:23:50,290
four, maybe anything less than that.

590
00:23:50,300 --> 00:23:51,050
Like it's gone.

591
00:23:52,650 --> 00:23:53,520
That's the reality.

592
00:23:53,530 --> 00:23:55,880
Your time is a zero sum game basically.

593
00:23:56,570 --> 00:23:59,950
And I think I had to let go of
something like basically like

594
00:24:00,060 --> 00:24:01,579
people were like, Oh yeah.

595
00:24:01,579 --> 00:24:02,169
Oh my gosh.

596
00:24:02,169 --> 00:24:04,200
That movie, like the whatever, whatever.

597
00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:05,905
I'm like, Why is this not resonating?

598
00:24:05,965 --> 00:24:06,845
When did this come out?

599
00:24:07,465 --> 00:24:08,105
I look it up.

600
00:24:08,304 --> 00:24:09,185
Oh, 2011.

601
00:24:09,215 --> 00:24:11,155
Okay, that explains why
I've like never heard of it.

602
00:24:11,185 --> 00:24:12,065
I've never seen it.

603
00:24:12,485 --> 00:24:16,985
I've no idea what you're talking about
because like there was no time for that.

604
00:24:16,995 --> 00:24:18,385
Like I chose two things.

605
00:24:18,455 --> 00:24:19,695
I chose career.

606
00:24:19,885 --> 00:24:21,935
It was just building the
business and I chose kids.

607
00:24:22,665 --> 00:24:27,234
I would say spouse was a treading
water thing for a long time and hobbies

608
00:24:27,234 --> 00:24:28,524
and whatever else you went with her.

609
00:24:28,524 --> 00:24:29,804
It was basically a zero, right?

610
00:24:30,045 --> 00:24:30,655
I had to be a zero.

611
00:24:30,655 --> 00:24:32,125
There was enough points left, right?

612
00:24:32,424 --> 00:24:34,735
What would I say my breakdown
was is actually a real talk.

613
00:24:34,745 --> 00:24:39,645
It's like, I was probably, I always try to
maintain at least a six or greater for the

614
00:24:39,645 --> 00:24:43,235
business that left me with four points to
spread across kids and spouse and hobbies.

615
00:24:43,565 --> 00:24:44,814
So, you know, hobbies had to be zero.

616
00:24:45,434 --> 00:24:48,815
I mean, I was borrowing from categories
like sleep, you know, which is

617
00:24:48,905 --> 00:24:50,604
health is probably another category.

618
00:24:51,014 --> 00:24:53,644
You know, I mean, God bless you
if you can get up at four a.

619
00:24:53,645 --> 00:24:53,805
m.

620
00:24:53,805 --> 00:24:54,924
and do that as well.

621
00:24:54,924 --> 00:24:56,520
But That's what I ended up doing.

622
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:59,100
So I will say my schedule
ended up being pretty insane.

623
00:24:59,100 --> 00:25:03,810
Like there's a while where I'd actually
get up at 4 30 in the morning code.

624
00:25:03,900 --> 00:25:05,980
I would actually I was always
an early riser mentally.

625
00:25:05,980 --> 00:25:07,340
I was like, I'm sharp in the morning.

626
00:25:07,670 --> 00:25:09,159
So like if you're not, I get it.

627
00:25:09,700 --> 00:25:10,870
But I would get up at 4 30.

628
00:25:11,729 --> 00:25:15,059
I would code from 5 to 7 or 5 to 8.

629
00:25:15,090 --> 00:25:18,910
When family breakfast was, I
would get my core work done before

630
00:25:18,910 --> 00:25:20,300
family breakfast even happened.

631
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:21,110
Wow.

632
00:25:21,120 --> 00:25:23,940
Which left me free to
like, be an involved dad.

633
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,580
I worked from home before
that was very popular either.

634
00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:30,820
So then from like, so 8 AM, you know,
the Cheerios thing, the high chairs,

635
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:32,970
all that stuff, we got to go to Costco.

636
00:25:32,980 --> 00:25:34,189
She's not going to go alone.

637
00:25:34,230 --> 00:25:35,349
I'm going to go and help out.

638
00:25:35,780 --> 00:25:40,420
You know, that let me basically be
free to at least be physically present

639
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,190
from 8 to 2 nap time basically.

640
00:25:45,030 --> 00:25:48,750
And then nap time was another session
of email and coding and whatever.

641
00:25:49,150 --> 00:25:52,879
And then if they went to bed and all
things went well, and you know, I was

642
00:25:52,879 --> 00:25:56,400
free again by 9 or 10, I could do, you
know, maybe I could do 30 minutes of

643
00:25:56,410 --> 00:25:57,850
work then or sometimes I would work.

644
00:25:57,890 --> 00:25:58,510
I hate to say it.

645
00:25:58,510 --> 00:26:00,110
I work till 12 o'clock
or 1 in the morning.

646
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:02,510
I get maybe five hours of sleep.

647
00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:06,130
You know, you can't sustain that, but
like to do a startup, you're choosing

648
00:26:06,130 --> 00:26:07,740
to climb Everest and something else.

649
00:26:07,740 --> 00:26:08,480
Okay, right.

650
00:26:08,510 --> 00:26:09,930
That doesn't sound good to you.

651
00:26:09,940 --> 00:26:10,870
Like, don't do it.

652
00:26:10,889 --> 00:26:11,149
Right.

653
00:26:11,150 --> 00:26:13,450
But I'm not going to sit here
and say, like, Oh, yeah, I had

654
00:26:13,450 --> 00:26:14,869
eight hours of sleep exercise.

655
00:26:14,910 --> 00:26:15,150
Eight.

656
00:26:15,150 --> 00:26:15,490
Great.

657
00:26:15,500 --> 00:26:16,610
You know, kids love me.

658
00:26:16,610 --> 00:26:18,829
My wife thought I was
fulfilling every possible need.

659
00:26:18,829 --> 00:26:21,810
Like, no, not how it works.

660
00:26:21,850 --> 00:26:24,600
So, you know, finite resources, right?

661
00:26:24,850 --> 00:26:25,899
Allocate them wisely.

662
00:26:26,210 --> 00:26:29,080
I love the real talk because
that's the truth that people need

663
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:29,510
Adam Fishman: to hear.

664
00:26:29,660 --> 00:26:29,990
Matt Wensing: Yeah.

665
00:26:29,990 --> 00:26:32,990
And I think like occasionally I would
shift gears and say like, you know,

666
00:26:32,990 --> 00:26:34,300
I really need to focus on my sleep.

667
00:26:34,300 --> 00:26:36,779
So I'm going to give up this part or
I'm going to take that, I'm going to

668
00:26:36,780 --> 00:26:40,140
take that nap in the afternoon when they
nap, because I'm freaking at the wall.

669
00:26:40,150 --> 00:26:41,339
Like I call it hit the wall.

670
00:26:41,820 --> 00:26:42,840
I just tell my wife I've hit a wall.

671
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:45,879
That means I got to
sleep some to catch up.

672
00:26:46,290 --> 00:26:51,399
But you know, part of that was being
23 and having infinity energy too.

673
00:26:51,469 --> 00:26:54,240
So yeah, I wouldn't do the same thing now.

674
00:26:54,300 --> 00:26:55,089
I don't think I could.

675
00:26:55,879 --> 00:26:56,269
Right.

676
00:26:56,739 --> 00:26:56,929
Yeah.

677
00:26:56,939 --> 00:27:00,709
Adam Fishman: I was going to ask if you
think about this points allocation, how

678
00:27:00,709 --> 00:27:04,809
would you say your points allocation has
changed as the kids have gotten older and

679
00:27:04,809 --> 00:27:10,145
you've, you know, Matured and also gotten
older and or just learned about your

680
00:27:10,145 --> 00:27:11,855
limits or what works and doesn't work.

681
00:27:11,955 --> 00:27:14,255
Matt Wensing: It was definitely,
you know, health and sleep was like

682
00:27:14,255 --> 00:27:16,395
a zero category for a long time.

683
00:27:16,505 --> 00:27:20,425
Thankfully, I was able to do that
without like terrible consequences.

684
00:27:20,504 --> 00:27:26,095
I'll say this like the kids doesn't have
to be a seven or a six or you know anymore

685
00:27:26,115 --> 00:27:28,465
because it's funny you say a full house.

686
00:27:28,805 --> 00:27:29,455
Yes and no.

687
00:27:29,455 --> 00:27:33,939
Actually, the thing about teenagers that
is really surprising is how Absent they

688
00:27:33,939 --> 00:27:39,810
are compared to before so you know, we
talk a lot and we dramatize the conflicts,

689
00:27:39,830 --> 00:27:41,409
the emotional things and all that.

690
00:27:41,409 --> 00:27:43,629
But don't forget when you watch
the sitcoms of the shows as

691
00:27:43,629 --> 00:27:47,469
movies that's happening in the
five minutes of interaction that

692
00:27:47,469 --> 00:27:48,990
the parents have with the kid.

693
00:27:49,300 --> 00:27:52,190
As they're grabbing their car keys to go
out the door as they're showing up late

694
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:54,280
because they were at a friend's house
as they don't want to talk about their

695
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:55,800
day and going and hiding in their room.

696
00:27:56,590 --> 00:28:02,929
So that you're not physically engaged
or present with them as much, even

697
00:28:02,930 --> 00:28:04,619
though they're still there, right?

698
00:28:04,659 --> 00:28:05,749
And I think that's a healthy thing.

699
00:28:05,749 --> 00:28:06,279
It's a great thing.

700
00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:08,200
And my son's like, Hey, I'm gonna,
you know, I'm gonna go over to my

701
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:09,739
friend's house and do this tonight.

702
00:28:10,090 --> 00:28:11,580
I'm not looking for a reason to say no.

703
00:28:11,639 --> 00:28:13,740
You know, I'm like, Awesome.

704
00:28:13,770 --> 00:28:14,330
Sounds great.

705
00:28:14,330 --> 00:28:15,050
Like I'm secure.

706
00:28:15,130 --> 00:28:17,060
I don't need you to be
home for any reason.

707
00:28:17,620 --> 00:28:20,849
So what I'm trying to say is
that freedom has allowed me to

708
00:28:20,850 --> 00:28:23,510
say like, Going to take a nap.

709
00:28:23,510 --> 00:28:24,510
I'm going to sleep in.

710
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:30,130
If I need to, I'm going to go use the
rower for half an hour and I'm not needed.

711
00:28:30,430 --> 00:28:30,790
Right.

712
00:28:30,889 --> 00:28:35,129
And I was able to, I would say, shift
some back to the health piece there.

713
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:39,000
I'd say also just that freedom of
attention means that, you know, if

714
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:41,340
my wife and I want to go out during
the day or spend time together

715
00:28:41,340 --> 00:28:43,029
or do whatever travel together.

716
00:28:43,310 --> 00:28:46,390
Those are all available to us now,
and they just literally aren't,

717
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:47,550
you know, and that's normal.

718
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:48,830
I guess that's what
I'm trying to say, too.

719
00:28:48,830 --> 00:28:52,200
Yeah, it's normal that they're not, but
you do get to play with that equalizer,

720
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,089
if you will, and shift those things
around later because the pressure

721
00:28:56,089 --> 00:28:59,779
comes off of one of them where they're
like, Dad, I just need I need this now.

722
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:01,079
This is what I need out of you.

723
00:29:01,540 --> 00:29:04,420
And you're like, Okay,
you know, I can do that.

724
00:29:04,810 --> 00:29:06,000
Takes me 15 minutes.

725
00:29:06,060 --> 00:29:11,120
But also, I'd say, like the ability to
Pull someone aside, sounds wrong, but say

726
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:12,350
like, Hey, do you want to go out to eat?

727
00:29:12,740 --> 00:29:13,760
Hey, the house is free.

728
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:14,840
It's just us tonight.

729
00:29:14,910 --> 00:29:16,580
You know, do you want to hang out?

730
00:29:16,590 --> 00:29:18,370
Like, you know, we'll
go to the Wings place.

731
00:29:18,380 --> 00:29:19,279
So we'll go here.

732
00:29:19,290 --> 00:29:19,960
We'll do this.

733
00:29:20,620 --> 00:29:21,409
That's really cool.

734
00:29:21,570 --> 00:29:24,900
You know, and to know that, like, it's
not because your spouse is like at home,

735
00:29:25,269 --> 00:29:27,029
you know, holding it down with the rest.

736
00:29:27,029 --> 00:29:27,890
It's just like, right.

737
00:29:27,929 --> 00:29:30,989
Actually, everyone's kind of doing
their own thing except for us, you know.

738
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,490
Do you want to hang out for a
bit and they say yes and you're

739
00:29:33,530 --> 00:29:35,710
like best feeling in the world.

740
00:29:35,710 --> 00:29:35,950
Right?

741
00:29:36,220 --> 00:29:36,640
Yeah.

742
00:29:37,290 --> 00:29:37,760
Adam Fishman: Yeah.

743
00:29:38,310 --> 00:29:39,110
Yeah, that's awesome.

744
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:39,770
That's awesome.

745
00:29:40,170 --> 00:29:42,590
So I wanted to ask you about advice.

746
00:29:42,689 --> 00:29:45,519
You know, when you're a parent,
when you're becoming a parent,

747
00:29:45,519 --> 00:29:47,250
you get a lot of advice.

748
00:29:47,629 --> 00:29:48,649
Some of it is good.

749
00:29:49,235 --> 00:29:50,295
Most of it is bad.

750
00:29:50,735 --> 00:29:54,655
But if you could rewind the clock and
you're just getting peppered with advice

751
00:29:54,655 --> 00:29:58,435
by people, and maybe this didn't happen to
you, but I do find that it happens a lot.

752
00:29:58,735 --> 00:30:01,885
Or maybe you're being bombarded
by Instagram advice and TikTok

753
00:30:01,895 --> 00:30:03,905
videos about how to be a
better parent, stuff like that.

754
00:30:04,345 --> 00:30:08,985
What advice that you got would you
tell yourself to completely ignore?

755
00:30:09,575 --> 00:30:10,085
So I was

756
00:30:10,085 --> 00:30:12,255
Matt Wensing: seeking out a
lot of advice then because, you

757
00:30:12,255 --> 00:30:14,405
know, being the A plus student.

758
00:30:14,825 --> 00:30:17,985
Types, you know, it's like we want
to ace this is a new classroom

759
00:30:17,985 --> 00:30:19,085
rolled in called parenting.

760
00:30:19,125 --> 00:30:23,035
I want to get an a and so you're like
voracious, you know, so you're taking

761
00:30:23,035 --> 00:30:26,195
this stuff in and you're like A lot
of times people are dropping knowledge

762
00:30:26,205 --> 00:30:27,475
and you're like, this is amazing.

763
00:30:27,795 --> 00:30:31,005
This person has all the success
or these kids is going great.

764
00:30:31,765 --> 00:30:37,385
I think though, what's really
dangerous though, is that man,

765
00:30:37,465 --> 00:30:39,925
until the score settles out, right?

766
00:30:39,925 --> 00:30:43,035
Until the game is like over,
if you will, you don't really

767
00:30:43,035 --> 00:30:44,965
know who's won in this game.

768
00:30:45,465 --> 00:30:48,145
So when you get advice from
people and you like look and

769
00:30:48,145 --> 00:30:51,295
you're like, Oh yeah, Everyone's
just sort of in order and locks.

770
00:30:51,355 --> 00:30:53,095
Everyone's the kids are smiling.

771
00:30:53,095 --> 00:30:55,245
Everything seems so put
together like it's working.

772
00:30:55,255 --> 00:30:56,175
They're winning, right?

773
00:30:56,635 --> 00:30:58,485
Yeah, man.

774
00:30:58,505 --> 00:31:00,535
Like, don't judge yet.

775
00:31:00,585 --> 00:31:04,625
Like, don't assume that it's working
actually because humans are extremely

776
00:31:04,625 --> 00:31:09,645
complex kids still developing that
relationship that the parent has.

777
00:31:09,645 --> 00:31:10,685
The kid is changing.

778
00:31:11,165 --> 00:31:14,085
I saw enough people sort of
run with advice that I got

779
00:31:14,105 --> 00:31:15,345
early and like stick with it.

780
00:31:16,335 --> 00:31:19,105
Like the results weren't great
and they were actually like the

781
00:31:19,115 --> 00:31:20,985
opposite of what I was going for.

782
00:31:20,985 --> 00:31:24,475
And so I saw, you know, Oh,
they're three years older, five

783
00:31:24,475 --> 00:31:25,605
years older, 10 years older.

784
00:31:25,605 --> 00:31:27,515
Like that's the next wave.

785
00:31:27,515 --> 00:31:28,875
It's talking to somebody
who's along the path.

786
00:31:29,605 --> 00:31:33,605
But I would say like if those kids
aren't like adults yet and they're not

787
00:31:33,615 --> 00:31:35,995
thriving and they don't have a good
relationship with their parents still

788
00:31:36,005 --> 00:31:40,455
like let the jury sort of wait it out.

789
00:31:40,495 --> 00:31:40,835
Right.

790
00:31:40,885 --> 00:31:43,235
Because what you're really
going for as a parent isn't.

791
00:31:43,995 --> 00:31:48,575
Obedient looking teenagers on the outside
or little toddlers that, you know, never

792
00:31:48,575 --> 00:31:50,225
fuss or whatever you're looking for.

793
00:31:50,225 --> 00:31:54,205
Like, I want to be in a situation
when I'm in my 40s, 50s, 60s or

794
00:31:54,205 --> 00:31:57,715
whatever, where my kids want me
to help take care of their kids.

795
00:31:57,715 --> 00:32:00,825
If that's a thing where my kids
are like calling me and we're

796
00:32:00,825 --> 00:32:02,185
having good, like, I want that.

797
00:32:02,905 --> 00:32:03,325
Yeah.

798
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:10,330
Those people, honestly, they're even
more rare and I think like that is so

799
00:32:10,330 --> 00:32:13,960
rare that you don't even necessarily find
them available for advice because just

800
00:32:13,980 --> 00:32:18,430
most people don't have that experience
and so I would tell myself, Matt is

801
00:32:18,430 --> 00:32:21,580
like, don't assume that it's working yet
just because it looks like it's working

802
00:32:21,590 --> 00:32:24,070
would be one thing and I think that
that would cut across a lot of advice.

803
00:32:24,100 --> 00:32:26,810
And then I would also say
being a little bit more.

804
00:32:26,830 --> 00:32:27,770
I was pretty strict.

805
00:32:27,810 --> 00:32:29,350
I would say I got less strict.

806
00:32:29,350 --> 00:32:30,140
Obviously time goes by.

807
00:32:30,150 --> 00:32:31,080
I think that's natural.

808
00:32:31,580 --> 00:32:33,920
Yeah, I think that's natural
because I think we realize that

809
00:32:33,930 --> 00:32:37,750
actually It kind of works as well.

810
00:32:37,750 --> 00:32:40,180
In many cases, I'm not
saying no boundaries.

811
00:32:40,190 --> 00:32:41,160
Please don't misunderstand.

812
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:46,390
But I'm saying like there's a difference
between boundaries and strict.

813
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:51,600
And I think like strict is easier
to actually do than boundaries.

814
00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,270
You know, a very strict leadership style.

815
00:32:55,825 --> 00:32:58,735
We all know companies are the same way,
you know, it's sort of like the boss

816
00:32:58,745 --> 00:33:02,105
that like everyone has to listen to,
but like, do you want to talk to them?

817
00:33:02,115 --> 00:33:03,165
Do you want to, like, go out to eat?

818
00:33:03,245 --> 00:33:04,675
You actually want a
relationship with them?

819
00:33:05,255 --> 00:33:07,905
Yeah, you know, it really
does come down to the heart.

820
00:33:07,915 --> 00:33:12,565
And I think fortunately, I feel
like we realized that in time, but I

821
00:33:12,565 --> 00:33:16,005
still think we started out like way
too, like, We're gonna nail this.

822
00:33:16,005 --> 00:33:19,674
And obviously the answer is to be
really disciplined about all this stuff.

823
00:33:19,675 --> 00:33:21,675
Like 10 years from now, you'll
probably think that was all

824
00:33:21,675 --> 00:33:24,245
just like hilarious naivety.

825
00:33:24,975 --> 00:33:25,305
Yep.

826
00:33:26,095 --> 00:33:28,195
And like, maybe you can't
learn any other way.

827
00:33:28,225 --> 00:33:29,045
So that's fine, too.

828
00:33:29,045 --> 00:33:31,555
Like, you're not gonna listen to me
saying this out loud and also learn

829
00:33:31,555 --> 00:33:32,805
like you kind of maybe have to learn.

830
00:33:32,805 --> 00:33:34,305
But I remember a little story.

831
00:33:34,335 --> 00:33:36,614
We were doing sleep training with
one because we were told that

832
00:33:36,615 --> 00:33:37,825
that was like the way to do it.

833
00:33:38,475 --> 00:33:38,715
Yeah.

834
00:33:38,755 --> 00:33:41,665
And so our oldest again, like first one.

835
00:33:41,665 --> 00:33:42,595
Yeah, we're gonna do this right.

836
00:33:43,215 --> 00:33:45,495
Like we we like do that thing.

837
00:33:45,870 --> 00:33:48,430
We're like, okay, we're just gonna let him
cry because, you know, that's not love,

838
00:33:48,460 --> 00:33:51,700
you know, it's okay, you know, every needs
met, like they should just go to sleep.

839
00:33:51,700 --> 00:33:55,700
Yeah, we read the book and it was like,
oh yeah, it's normal, like if they cry

840
00:33:55,700 --> 00:33:58,310
for some amount of time, but then they'll
whatever a little bit go to sleep.

841
00:33:58,310 --> 00:34:01,680
So our oldest, she's in there crying like,
okay, it's gone a little bit longer than

842
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:02,760
the book says, but then there's quiet.

843
00:34:03,370 --> 00:34:07,530
Oh yeah, yeah, I literally remember
the movie, we were watching the Russell

844
00:34:07,530 --> 00:34:09,110
Crowe movie, Master and Commander.

845
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,020
Okay, I remember the movie
that was even on, right?

846
00:34:12,330 --> 00:34:15,390
We're watching this thing, we're having
our like us time, like, which is super

847
00:34:15,390 --> 00:34:16,340
rare because the kids are in bed.

848
00:34:17,250 --> 00:34:23,340
It was like 11 minutes later or the next
scene, suddenly, boom, just eruption,

849
00:34:23,380 --> 00:34:28,580
like back at it full force, not, and
we're like, but that's not what the book

850
00:34:28,580 --> 00:34:33,660
said, but the book said, but the book said
like that this wasn't going to happen.

851
00:34:33,660 --> 00:34:36,450
And by the way, this wasn't like the
first night we tried it or the second

852
00:34:36,450 --> 00:34:39,520
night, this is like weeks of trying
this stuff and we just went like,

853
00:34:40,260 --> 00:34:42,049
maybe this book isn't a fit for us.

854
00:34:42,300 --> 00:34:46,400
For her, like, yeah, this is
maybe just not the answer.

855
00:34:46,590 --> 00:34:48,450
And then you're like,
but this person has four.

856
00:34:48,810 --> 00:34:49,420
That's fine.

857
00:34:49,670 --> 00:34:50,630
That's how random works.

858
00:34:50,630 --> 00:34:51,960
Guys, do you realize it's bunchy?

859
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:53,600
They could have four where it all works.

860
00:34:53,690 --> 00:34:55,020
You could have four where it doesn't work.

861
00:34:55,020 --> 00:34:57,240
And this poor person over here
has the first one where it works.

862
00:34:57,240 --> 00:34:59,450
And then the next one where it
doesn't just to gaslight them into

863
00:34:59,450 --> 00:35:00,610
thinking that they know something.

864
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:01,250
Right?

865
00:35:01,700 --> 00:35:03,330
And then they get the second one.

866
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:07,750
So, you know, those were things
where sure, if it works, great.

867
00:35:07,810 --> 00:35:10,860
But like, if it's not working, what,
you know, what are we doing here?

868
00:35:10,890 --> 00:35:11,150
Right.

869
00:35:11,150 --> 00:35:12,330
It's we're not trying to like.

870
00:35:12,985 --> 00:35:16,235
Be the, you know, greatest number
of successes with this method.

871
00:35:17,045 --> 00:35:19,295
You only get four shots
or two shots or one shot.

872
00:35:19,305 --> 00:35:22,645
Like your goal is to do what works.

873
00:35:22,885 --> 00:35:25,585
And when you have older kids, they
will look and go, wait a minute.

874
00:35:26,020 --> 00:35:26,960
You're parenting them different.

875
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:31,290
It's like, yes, leadership
styles actually have to be about.

876
00:35:31,290 --> 00:35:32,720
And that's something I learned at work.

877
00:35:33,470 --> 00:35:37,710
I remember early on in my career as a
manager, I had a mentor and I said, you

878
00:35:37,710 --> 00:35:39,250
know, I just want to send this email out.

879
00:35:39,490 --> 00:35:41,000
Everyone just opens
the email and reads it.

880
00:35:41,340 --> 00:35:43,910
And these people open the email and
read it and they actually do the thing.

881
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:45,770
And then like these people don't do it.

882
00:35:45,770 --> 00:35:48,970
And he goes, well, they used to
report to me and they did stuff.

883
00:35:48,970 --> 00:35:50,090
And I was like, okay,
well, what's your secret?

884
00:35:50,090 --> 00:35:52,890
He's like, well, for that person
to do it, you actually need to

885
00:35:52,900 --> 00:35:56,945
have a conversation, you need to
like, It might take five minutes.

886
00:35:56,945 --> 00:35:57,855
It might take 10 minutes.

887
00:35:58,005 --> 00:35:58,815
Maybe it's a phone call or whatever.

888
00:35:58,815 --> 00:36:02,335
And I go, okay, that's
not scalable though.

889
00:36:02,335 --> 00:36:04,575
And that's not like,
that's not as efficient.

890
00:36:04,585 --> 00:36:06,185
And I don't want to do that or whatever.

891
00:36:06,185 --> 00:36:09,585
And then it comes down like, but are
you trying to lead these individuals?

892
00:36:10,305 --> 00:36:11,095
Are you trying to

893
00:36:13,165 --> 00:36:14,565
do what works for you?

894
00:36:14,875 --> 00:36:15,165
Right?

895
00:36:15,165 --> 00:36:15,545
Yeah.

896
00:36:16,445 --> 00:36:17,705
What is your goal here?

897
00:36:17,705 --> 00:36:19,655
And I really parenting is like
the ultimate version of that.

898
00:36:19,715 --> 00:36:22,245
We're like There's no
swapping this employee out.

899
00:36:22,275 --> 00:36:23,875
There's no corporate organization.

900
00:36:23,875 --> 00:36:26,955
Reshuffling is going to happen
This is who you're working with.

901
00:36:27,275 --> 00:36:28,965
Adam Fishman: Yeah, you're
gonna be reorgs twins.

902
00:36:28,965 --> 00:36:29,905
You're being reorgs.

903
00:36:29,915 --> 00:36:31,155
You're now reporting to mom

904
00:36:31,395 --> 00:36:33,255
Matt Wensing: Yeah,
actually auntie and uncle.

905
00:36:33,335 --> 00:36:36,875
Yeah, you're gonna be with them
for a while So yeah, you got

906
00:36:36,875 --> 00:36:37,865
to do what works for each one.

907
00:36:37,865 --> 00:36:39,605
So it's like well, how can you do this?

908
00:36:39,605 --> 00:36:42,565
It's like Well, if I did
that with you, would it work?

909
00:36:42,655 --> 00:36:43,045
No.

910
00:36:43,085 --> 00:36:43,325
Okay.

911
00:36:43,325 --> 00:36:44,455
If I did this with you, would it work?

912
00:36:44,475 --> 00:36:44,775
No.

913
00:36:44,985 --> 00:36:48,005
So you understand, I have to
approach this differently, right?

914
00:36:48,015 --> 00:36:49,815
Like, Oh, okay.

915
00:36:49,865 --> 00:36:51,275
You know, it's a blast.

916
00:36:52,135 --> 00:36:55,365
Adam Fishman: You mentioned a lot in
that last thing we were talking about,

917
00:36:55,365 --> 00:37:00,675
about the parallels between work and
professional life and family life and like

918
00:37:00,975 --> 00:37:02,495
working with employees, working with kids.

919
00:37:03,415 --> 00:37:07,675
Do you think that being a parent has
made you a better CEO and founder?

920
00:37:10,625 --> 00:37:12,985
I know you don't have a
controlled AB test here.

921
00:37:13,005 --> 00:37:15,275
Yeah, because you've basically
been a parent as long

922
00:37:15,275 --> 00:37:16,245
Matt Wensing: as you've been a founder.

923
00:37:16,745 --> 00:37:17,245
I don't know.

924
00:37:17,245 --> 00:37:18,875
Yeah, and part of me wants to do that.

925
00:37:18,885 --> 00:37:19,285
What's that?

926
00:37:19,375 --> 00:37:20,835
That awesome response.

927
00:37:20,865 --> 00:37:24,225
Jokic, when he was asked the NBA,
are you a better basketball player

928
00:37:24,225 --> 00:37:25,545
because of your family life?

929
00:37:25,545 --> 00:37:26,735
And he just goes, no.

930
00:37:29,645 --> 00:37:32,095
Everyone's like, you do realize
that the NBA is trying to turn

931
00:37:32,095 --> 00:37:32,985
you into a superstar, right?

932
00:37:33,265 --> 00:37:35,094
I would say that the honest answer is no.

933
00:37:35,255 --> 00:37:40,775
I don't know however the parallels would
be things like I think that I have had

934
00:37:40,775 --> 00:37:44,205
to through the crucible of parenting
and I mean that the nicest way possible.

935
00:37:44,215 --> 00:37:45,025
It's got its joys.

936
00:37:45,025 --> 00:37:45,725
Don't get me wrong.

937
00:37:46,685 --> 00:37:50,955
You really do learn about let's
say you have a family of two.

938
00:37:51,065 --> 00:37:53,705
Okay, you could argue there's one
relationship, which is, you know,

939
00:37:53,785 --> 00:37:55,675
me to her or her to me or whatever.

940
00:37:56,325 --> 00:37:58,475
I actually look at it as there's
more relationships than that.

941
00:37:58,475 --> 00:38:01,395
There's myself and what I think of myself.

942
00:38:01,425 --> 00:38:02,905
There's myself and what I think of her.

943
00:38:03,820 --> 00:38:07,020
And then there's what I think of our
relationship and then vice versa.

944
00:38:07,020 --> 00:38:07,290
Right?

945
00:38:07,310 --> 00:38:09,520
So you have all these mappings, right?

946
00:38:09,530 --> 00:38:12,450
All all these complexities
and it explodes.

947
00:38:12,450 --> 00:38:16,940
And I think family life has sort
of showed me that, oh, wow, I am in

948
00:38:16,940 --> 00:38:21,130
a, you know, again, I use all these
words inescapable experiment or

949
00:38:21,130 --> 00:38:22,740
social experiment in a way of going.

950
00:38:23,310 --> 00:38:26,860
This person just said these words,
I'm in the same room, I heard

951
00:38:26,860 --> 00:38:28,370
them and I know what I took away.

952
00:38:29,795 --> 00:38:34,315
That does not at all mean that
person over there, the kid or the

953
00:38:34,315 --> 00:38:36,775
parent, took it the same way, right?

954
00:38:36,775 --> 00:38:40,515
Because I have all this history and
context that neither of them have, and

955
00:38:40,515 --> 00:38:44,835
I even have my own perception of, oh
my goodness, their relationship, right?

956
00:38:45,605 --> 00:38:52,855
And that has taught me is that when I
say something at work, the assumption

957
00:38:52,915 --> 00:38:54,445
of clarity is almost always wrong.

958
00:38:55,925 --> 00:38:57,075
Presumptuous, right?

959
00:38:57,085 --> 00:38:57,665
Or wrong.

960
00:38:57,735 --> 00:39:01,575
It's like, Hey, I, you know, we had
to get in a private conversation.

961
00:39:01,585 --> 00:39:03,395
Hey, we had this, you
know, a meeting today.

962
00:39:03,585 --> 00:39:04,095
I said this.

963
00:39:04,265 --> 00:39:05,715
It's like, what did you
take away from that?

964
00:39:05,725 --> 00:39:06,555
Or what does that mean to you?

965
00:39:06,565 --> 00:39:12,315
Or was it clear when I said this, you
know, the odds that they took away

966
00:39:12,315 --> 00:39:14,915
something completely different or
didn't take away is high, you know?

967
00:39:15,265 --> 00:39:15,939
And I think yeah.

968
00:39:16,900 --> 00:39:21,250
I because I enjoy thinking about these
things and I feel like it's just sort

969
00:39:21,250 --> 00:39:24,870
of, uh, it's my role sort of in life in
a lot of situations, even growing up.

970
00:39:24,870 --> 00:39:25,430
I'll say it this way.

971
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:28,300
Even growing up, I always felt
like I was kind of the town

972
00:39:28,340 --> 00:39:30,030
translator or communicator.

973
00:39:30,180 --> 00:39:33,810
Like I was very often helping my
brother understand what my mom meant.

974
00:39:33,820 --> 00:39:35,350
Helped my mom understand what my dad like.

975
00:39:36,010 --> 00:39:37,660
I guess I enjoyed it.

976
00:39:38,100 --> 00:39:41,340
But I also find it kind of fascinating,
and you could also call it an undue

977
00:39:41,340 --> 00:39:42,890
burden as a kid to have to do that.

978
00:39:43,300 --> 00:39:45,580
As a parent, I think it's more of
your responsibility, and as a leader

979
00:39:45,590 --> 00:39:48,600
at work, it's more of your actual
paid responsibility to be that

980
00:39:48,630 --> 00:39:54,280
translator and say, Do we actually
understand what each other is saying?

981
00:39:54,350 --> 00:39:56,785
And Why are we saying it?

982
00:39:56,895 --> 00:40:00,605
And I think the translatable thing
here is good questions are the best.

983
00:40:01,995 --> 00:40:05,075
Leadership 102 maybe is
learn to ask good questions.

984
00:40:05,855 --> 00:40:06,985
What are you actually saying?

985
00:40:07,855 --> 00:40:08,875
Why are you saying that?

986
00:40:08,885 --> 00:40:12,025
What are you worried is
going to happen, right?

987
00:40:12,325 --> 00:40:16,195
Is oftentimes the root cause because
whether it's at work or home, it

988
00:40:16,195 --> 00:40:21,655
turns out feelings are actually
really the driver of so much behavior.

989
00:40:22,215 --> 00:40:24,545
I'm worried that the site
won't launch in time.

990
00:40:25,535 --> 00:40:26,705
That's actually.

991
00:40:27,010 --> 00:40:28,970
What's driving you going?

992
00:40:29,190 --> 00:40:34,170
Hey, everyone, you know, this wasn't
done by then and that's terrible

993
00:40:34,190 --> 00:40:35,550
and we got to do this by then.

994
00:40:35,550 --> 00:40:37,330
This is the most important
priority or whatever.

995
00:40:38,140 --> 00:40:40,500
Oh, if you peel all that back, I'm
worried the site won't launch in

996
00:40:40,500 --> 00:40:42,780
time because if it doesn't, then
this terrible stuff will happen.

997
00:40:43,895 --> 00:40:46,085
The leadership skill of going
like, actually that terrible stuff

998
00:40:46,175 --> 00:40:48,585
isn't going to happen or we can
mitigate that terrible stuff.

999
00:40:49,135 --> 00:40:50,485
Now do you feel differently
about priorities?

1000
00:40:50,505 --> 00:40:53,945
Oh, yeah, like I wouldn't have even
said we have to do that by then

1001
00:40:53,945 --> 00:40:55,025
if that's the case or whatever.

1002
00:40:55,025 --> 00:40:56,195
You're like, oh my goodness.

1003
00:40:56,195 --> 00:40:59,225
So with a kid, you know,
like, why are you saying that?

1004
00:40:59,225 --> 00:41:03,535
Well, I'm just worried that if
this is the case, then this wow.

1005
00:41:03,575 --> 00:41:05,105
Okay, guess what?

1006
00:41:05,115 --> 00:41:08,245
Like that's not gonna happen and it's
not gonna happen because of this.

1007
00:41:08,245 --> 00:41:13,005
But the words that are coming out are
like stacked on like five assumptions.

1008
00:41:13,005 --> 00:41:13,075
Yeah.

1009
00:41:13,650 --> 00:41:17,450
Emotions at the bottom, assumptions
stacked on top, and then verbal

1010
00:41:17,450 --> 00:41:22,980
expression, like this cantilevered
off the top of this stack of cards and

1011
00:41:22,980 --> 00:41:27,380
you're like, and then you listen to a
conversation and this person only hears

1012
00:41:27,380 --> 00:41:31,650
that part and they respond to just that
little cantilever that just that verbal

1013
00:41:31,650 --> 00:41:34,894
expression on top and you're going,
okay, it's my job to actually like.

1014
00:41:35,785 --> 00:41:37,325
Unpack and unwind all of this.

1015
00:41:37,335 --> 00:41:39,225
And I will say, man, this
goes back to the hobbies.

1016
00:41:39,395 --> 00:41:40,145
You want a hobby.

1017
00:41:40,245 --> 00:41:42,825
You want something that's going
to consume an hour of your time.

1018
00:41:43,735 --> 00:41:49,415
Talk to a 13 year old about what was
the actual root cause of them saying

1019
00:41:49,415 --> 00:41:53,105
what they said, try to navigate that.

1020
00:41:53,845 --> 00:41:54,335
Yeah.

1021
00:41:54,335 --> 00:41:57,835
And like, I'm not saying that
everybody has to, you know, therapy.

1022
00:41:57,845 --> 00:41:58,355
Sure.

1023
00:41:58,505 --> 00:41:58,975
Get help.

1024
00:41:59,115 --> 00:42:00,445
Like there's always an answer.

1025
00:42:00,445 --> 00:42:04,935
But I think so much of that just
gets like Packed down and paved over.

1026
00:42:05,095 --> 00:42:05,435
Right.

1027
00:42:06,805 --> 00:42:09,835
And, you know, yes, it's
like any other kind of debt.

1028
00:42:10,055 --> 00:42:14,325
Maybe it doesn't take an hour if you do
it regularly, you get in the habit of it.

1029
00:42:14,345 --> 00:42:18,355
But like, there's a lot of times where
that's your I feel like that's the

1030
00:42:18,355 --> 00:42:19,795
role of a parent in a large household.

1031
00:42:19,815 --> 00:42:21,305
And that's your role as a leader at work.

1032
00:42:21,365 --> 00:42:25,065
If you want to keep these
people is to say, like, why

1033
00:42:25,065 --> 00:42:26,385
are these people saying this?

1034
00:42:26,405 --> 00:42:28,405
Because everything else comes
out of the mouth is pretty smart.

1035
00:42:28,715 --> 00:42:35,415
This one seems weird or off, you know,
let me tease out what's really going on.

1036
00:42:35,415 --> 00:42:38,495
And, you know, a lot of, you know, A
lot of late nights, but now, you know,

1037
00:42:38,545 --> 00:42:44,945
I would say it's a beautiful thing when
like they're 17, 18, 19 and they reach

1038
00:42:44,945 --> 00:42:47,935
out to you and say, like, I want to
talk about something that's difficult.

1039
00:42:49,645 --> 00:42:52,295
Was it, was it worth all those hours?

1040
00:42:52,735 --> 00:42:56,465
I think so, but like, there ain't,
there's no shortcut, right, either.

1041
00:42:56,505 --> 00:42:59,915
And I'm also not saying, you know,
if you can't do this, that's fine.

1042
00:42:59,925 --> 00:43:02,755
Maybe your spouse can, one
of you, if not, get help.

1043
00:43:02,785 --> 00:43:06,285
But like, real talk,
that's gotta happen, right?

1044
00:43:06,305 --> 00:43:07,955
I don't think you can, like, not do that.

1045
00:43:08,355 --> 00:43:09,695
I don't think you can not
do that at work either.

1046
00:43:09,695 --> 00:43:11,465
I think a lot of people don't do it
at work, and then their company's

1047
00:43:11,475 --> 00:43:13,490
kind of, Become toxic, right?

1048
00:43:13,490 --> 00:43:13,950
Would be the

1049
00:43:13,950 --> 00:43:14,370
Adam Fishman: takeaway.

1050
00:43:14,370 --> 00:43:15,169
Yeah.

1051
00:43:15,170 --> 00:43:15,390
Yeah.

1052
00:43:15,390 --> 00:43:15,630
Matt Wensing: Yeah.

1053
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,470
Adam Fishman: They don't get down
into the root, the underlying

1054
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:20,230
root cause and root emotion there.

1055
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:20,950
It's too hard.

1056
00:43:21,230 --> 00:43:25,590
You and your wife, your partner
have been together for a couple

1057
00:43:25,590 --> 00:43:28,560
of decades now, more, a little
bit more than a couple of decades.

1058
00:43:29,050 --> 00:43:32,530
And you've raised or in the
process of raising four kids.

1059
00:43:33,130 --> 00:43:36,290
Partnership is super
important when you have kids.

1060
00:43:36,420 --> 00:43:40,700
And also you got married and sort of
partnered up at a pretty young age.

1061
00:43:40,730 --> 00:43:41,620
You change a lot.

1062
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,930
Over the course of your 20s and your
30s and you change a lot after you have

1063
00:43:45,930 --> 00:43:50,140
kids It's impossible to agree a hundred
percent of the time with your spouse.

1064
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:55,830
What is something that you and
Sky don't see eye to eye on

1065
00:43:55,830 --> 00:43:56,900
when it comes to parenting.

1066
00:43:57,940 --> 00:43:59,980
Okay, so We have

1067
00:43:59,980 --> 00:44:00,870
Matt Wensing: different fears.

1068
00:44:00,990 --> 00:44:05,940
I would say that drive us And
I have learned, we have learned

1069
00:44:05,940 --> 00:44:10,250
to embrace that as a strength,
meaning our powers combined,

1070
00:44:10,570 --> 00:44:11,810
we're looking out for everything.

1071
00:44:11,810 --> 00:44:17,590
So, I am always worried about, especially
when they're young, physical dangers.

1072
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:22,170
Now, we do things, we do activities, we
go boating, skiing, you know, we're like,

1073
00:44:22,170 --> 00:44:23,750
we play in the mud, we jump off of cars.

1074
00:44:24,565 --> 00:44:25,735
Short enough cliffs kind of thing.

1075
00:44:25,735 --> 00:44:26,545
Like we have a lot of fun.

1076
00:44:26,555 --> 00:44:27,205
Don't get me wrong.

1077
00:44:27,245 --> 00:44:28,565
We just go to national parks all the time.

1078
00:44:29,405 --> 00:44:32,325
I mean, we're adventurous, but I'm
always like the one to say, like,

1079
00:44:32,445 --> 00:44:34,125
watch out, don't do this, whatever.

1080
00:44:34,315 --> 00:44:35,525
I'm always afraid of people getting hurt.

1081
00:44:35,545 --> 00:44:36,315
It's just my thing.

1082
00:44:36,315 --> 00:44:39,585
And my joke is, you know,
there's certain things that, you

1083
00:44:39,585 --> 00:44:41,555
know, money or time can't fix.

1084
00:44:41,555 --> 00:44:41,775
Right.

1085
00:44:41,785 --> 00:44:43,505
And I don't want one of those
terrible things to happen.

1086
00:44:43,505 --> 00:44:44,845
I worry about that stuff.

1087
00:44:45,325 --> 00:44:49,715
My wife seems to like, that's
just, she doesn't worry her, right?

1088
00:44:49,715 --> 00:44:51,295
She doesn't worry about those things.

1089
00:44:51,305 --> 00:44:52,965
She's just more comfortable with.

1090
00:44:54,190 --> 00:44:54,820
We did it.

1091
00:44:54,830 --> 00:44:55,620
We're fine.

1092
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,680
You know, if they forget to wear their
helmet or whatever, it's going to be fine.

1093
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:00,790
And I'm like, okay, I know
I survived my childhood.

1094
00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:01,570
You did yours.

1095
00:45:02,150 --> 00:45:06,630
But I think it's important for me to have
that fear because it's needed, right?

1096
00:45:06,630 --> 00:45:07,900
It's a good check.

1097
00:45:07,960 --> 00:45:12,270
On the other hand, she's way more and
I'm gonna get to the disagree part.

1098
00:45:12,450 --> 00:45:18,360
She is way more concerned about their
emotional health, psychological health.

1099
00:45:18,490 --> 00:45:23,420
She's more concerned about, you know,
the stuff they're consuming, the amount

1100
00:45:23,420 --> 00:45:26,895
of time on the devices, all of that and
going, you know, Are they being hurt

1101
00:45:27,305 --> 00:45:29,915
non physically, but mentally, right?

1102
00:45:31,185 --> 00:45:35,815
And I would say those are blind spots
for each of us, and that would create

1103
00:45:35,825 --> 00:45:41,195
a decent amount of conflict about,
like, this is happening, and I'm really

1104
00:45:41,205 --> 00:45:44,405
scared and uncomfortable with it, and
you don't seem to be scared at all.

1105
00:45:45,705 --> 00:45:46,745
What's going on?

1106
00:45:47,335 --> 00:45:48,475
And vice versa.

1107
00:45:49,185 --> 00:45:55,885
And so, I think, Disagreeing on the
appropriate level of like precautions

1108
00:45:55,885 --> 00:46:00,395
to take on either of those was like
a recurring theme for us and I think

1109
00:46:01,245 --> 00:46:04,975
rather than agree to disagree, I
think I've learned to say like, okay,

1110
00:46:04,975 --> 00:46:07,915
actually, I think that the safer thing
is right to say like, okay, you're being

1111
00:46:07,925 --> 00:46:12,335
overprotective, but I'm going to meet
you somewhere that's beyond my level.

1112
00:46:12,910 --> 00:46:16,690
Because I know I'm self aware enough to
know that I'm like blind to this, right?

1113
00:46:16,820 --> 00:46:19,690
So I'm probably like the wrong bar to set.

1114
00:46:20,990 --> 00:46:24,230
Probably also the wrong bar
to set, but like what's the

1115
00:46:24,230 --> 00:46:25,800
downsides of that being the bar?

1116
00:46:26,510 --> 00:46:26,830
Right.

1117
00:46:26,870 --> 00:46:27,970
Probably not that bad.

1118
00:46:27,970 --> 00:46:29,100
The kid doesn't want to wear the helmet.

1119
00:46:29,110 --> 00:46:31,060
The kid doesn't want to
get off their device.

1120
00:46:31,060 --> 00:46:33,967
But like in the end, it's for their
best, so we're gonna do it, right?

1121
00:46:33,967 --> 00:46:34,642
Mm hmm.

1122
00:46:34,642 --> 00:46:35,350
Mm hmm.

1123
00:46:35,670 --> 00:46:39,310
But I'm not saying that like we came
to that like, I'm aware of myself.

1124
00:46:39,310 --> 00:46:40,110
You're aware of yourself.

1125
00:46:40,110 --> 00:46:41,440
We're aware of our different all that.

1126
00:46:41,450 --> 00:46:44,760
But like it turns out that takes
like a long time to figure out.

1127
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:45,170
Yeah.

1128
00:46:45,240 --> 00:46:47,810
At the beginning, a lot of conversations
at the beginning, you're both just

1129
00:46:47,810 --> 00:46:51,300
saying the surface level stuff of like
this must happen and this must happen.

1130
00:46:51,300 --> 00:46:54,630
And the other one's like, I
don't think that needs to happen.

1131
00:46:54,740 --> 00:46:55,080
Right?

1132
00:46:55,390 --> 00:46:56,170
Like, how are you?

1133
00:46:56,790 --> 00:46:58,810
How is that not terrifying you?

1134
00:46:58,810 --> 00:46:59,130
Right?

1135
00:46:59,610 --> 00:47:01,760
But I'd say part of the reason we
stayed together so long as we've

1136
00:47:02,010 --> 00:47:09,360
kind of learned to actually find
that Synthesis, I like to call it and

1137
00:47:09,410 --> 00:47:13,140
whether it's me or her, if we go to
the root cause, we typically find out.

1138
00:47:13,170 --> 00:47:17,220
Oh, we can actually address like
that danger and my danger concern.

1139
00:47:18,030 --> 00:47:19,190
These aren't mutually exclusive.

1140
00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:24,590
It turns out like we're not even like
we're competing for air time and attention

1141
00:47:24,610 --> 00:47:28,770
at this level, but like we could actually
have both like we could make both better.

1142
00:47:29,020 --> 00:47:32,600
But it's funny, like a lot
of time is so scarce, right?

1143
00:47:32,650 --> 00:47:36,515
And energy is so finite that a lot of
times The words we hear come out of our

1144
00:47:36,515 --> 00:47:39,795
partner's mouth, we assume that's like
the only thing they care about or the

1145
00:47:39,795 --> 00:47:41,095
most important thing they care about.

1146
00:47:41,765 --> 00:47:44,345
And it's just like, it's just
their internal little siren

1147
00:47:44,345 --> 00:47:46,915
going off saying like, somebody's
got to care about this, right?

1148
00:47:46,995 --> 00:47:47,435
Yeah.

1149
00:47:48,475 --> 00:47:52,185
And, Don't misread that as I don't care
at all about the other thing, right?

1150
00:47:52,775 --> 00:47:54,445
And maybe they're just not
scared of the other thing.

1151
00:47:54,455 --> 00:47:56,215
They care, but they're
just not scared, right?

1152
00:47:56,895 --> 00:48:00,285
It's just like, that's been
an interesting journey.

1153
00:48:00,285 --> 00:48:01,945
I would say the conflict
then comes up what?

1154
00:48:01,945 --> 00:48:04,925
It's not that we, oh, we're
having this long, mature

1155
00:48:04,925 --> 00:48:06,145
conversation and we're arguing.

1156
00:48:06,175 --> 00:48:11,875
No, the conflict comes when one of
us doesn't actually voice our concern

1157
00:48:11,875 --> 00:48:14,385
with their lack of concern and we
just internalize it and we go like,

1158
00:48:14,705 --> 00:48:18,330
Oh my gosh, she's not even like,
She doesn't really care about that.

1159
00:48:18,340 --> 00:48:22,450
Now I'm arguing with like my
own perception of her, right?

1160
00:48:22,450 --> 00:48:24,740
And going like, how could
you not care about that?

1161
00:48:24,740 --> 00:48:25,340
It's so important.

1162
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:27,340
Like, what a, you know,
it's a terrible person.

1163
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:31,160
Like, and so then that breeds
that like anger, resentment or

1164
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:34,220
conflict emerges, not because
you're having this like wonderfully

1165
00:48:34,220 --> 00:48:36,630
mature Couch sofa conversation.

1166
00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:41,210
It's this pent up frustration
with my perception of them.

1167
00:48:43,500 --> 00:48:47,980
And then I go hot into a conversation with
that as like my, like, that's my bogey.

1168
00:48:48,010 --> 00:48:51,800
Like that's, you know,
yeah, that's where it

1169
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:52,300
Adam Fishman: comes from.

1170
00:48:52,310 --> 00:48:54,690
So that's how we work very differently.

1171
00:48:54,705 --> 00:48:58,915
I love that and it sounds like the
main advice there is, you know, put

1172
00:48:58,915 --> 00:49:04,165
it on the table and don't draw your
own conclusions before you, you know,

1173
00:49:04,165 --> 00:49:07,265
don't get kind of trapped inside your
own head with the interpretation of

1174
00:49:07,765 --> 00:49:12,355
what somebody else's position is like,
put it out there and talk about it.

1175
00:49:12,825 --> 00:49:13,115
Yeah.

1176
00:49:13,115 --> 00:49:14,055
And it's so hard.

1177
00:49:14,325 --> 00:49:14,515
It's

1178
00:49:14,515 --> 00:49:15,580
Matt Wensing: so, that's so hard.

1179
00:49:15,580 --> 00:49:15,755
Right.

1180
00:49:15,755 --> 00:49:18,385
Because you're like, I
live with this person for.

1181
00:49:18,770 --> 00:49:25,930
Insert years, months, whatever, decades,
you can so easily spin up a avatar

1182
00:49:25,940 --> 00:49:32,730
of them that you think is like, this
is them, this is like, I know them,

1183
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:34,700
like, this is what they're going to do.

1184
00:49:34,730 --> 00:49:35,630
This is what they would say.

1185
00:49:37,250 --> 00:49:41,680
That is like, that is the enemy,
you know, somehow you've got to like

1186
00:49:41,740 --> 00:49:43,730
resist the temptation to spin up.

1187
00:49:44,030 --> 00:49:44,540
What do they call them?

1188
00:49:44,540 --> 00:49:45,170
An AI now?

1189
00:49:45,170 --> 00:49:46,170
Like they're deep fake.

1190
00:49:46,550 --> 00:49:47,430
Don't deep fake.

1191
00:49:47,430 --> 00:49:49,625
Like, Your partner, right?

1192
00:49:50,175 --> 00:49:55,255
Like give them the freedom to surprise
you or like delight you with the fact of

1193
00:49:55,255 --> 00:49:57,165
like, no, I wasn't thinking that at all.

1194
00:49:57,195 --> 00:49:58,985
I'm just terrible with
how I said it, right?

1195
00:49:59,405 --> 00:49:59,705
Yeah.

1196
00:49:59,855 --> 00:50:00,175
Okay.

1197
00:50:00,175 --> 00:50:01,265
Well, we can work on that.

1198
00:50:01,295 --> 00:50:03,075
Like, yeah, but that deep fake.

1199
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:05,890
Version of them spins up real fast.

1200
00:50:06,540 --> 00:50:06,910
Adam Fishman: Yeah.

1201
00:50:07,170 --> 00:50:10,480
So you mentioned that your wife
thinks a lot about the emotional

1202
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:13,780
well being and mental well being of
your kids, not to say that you do

1203
00:50:13,780 --> 00:50:17,860
not, but that tends to be where she
indexes a little bit higher than you.

1204
00:50:17,930 --> 00:50:22,840
I have been reading a lot and
there has been a lot of discussion

1205
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:24,490
unless you're living under a rock.

1206
00:50:24,490 --> 00:50:28,279
If you work in technology,
you're aware of it.

1207
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:34,360
Topics around teenage girls or
teenagers writ large and social media.

1208
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:39,750
And I've been reading this book,
The Anxious Generation, about that

1209
00:50:39,830 --> 00:50:43,020
and the impact of a phone based
childhood and things like that.

1210
00:50:43,370 --> 00:50:45,330
So you have three teenage girls.

1211
00:50:45,910 --> 00:50:48,790
One is like on the cusp
of adulthood, right?

1212
00:50:48,790 --> 00:50:50,030
As a college student.

1213
00:50:50,450 --> 00:50:54,290
What have you noticed about
your teenager's relationship

1214
00:50:54,330 --> 00:50:54,764
with their parents?

1215
00:50:55,195 --> 00:50:56,315
Technology.

1216
00:50:56,355 --> 00:51:05,915
And what did you and or your wife do to
prepare them for the tech first world

1217
00:51:05,925 --> 00:51:07,515
that's unavoidable now that we live?

1218
00:51:07,525 --> 00:51:07,935
Yeah.

1219
00:51:08,435 --> 00:51:10,165
Matt Wensing: So I think there's
two phases of this in a sense.

1220
00:51:10,165 --> 00:51:11,975
It's like resist the tide, right?

1221
00:51:12,005 --> 00:51:12,885
You know, it's coming.

1222
00:51:13,485 --> 00:51:15,995
You can put up your levies and
your walls and your sandbags

1223
00:51:15,995 --> 00:51:17,265
and everything like it's coming.

1224
00:51:17,265 --> 00:51:20,545
So what we try to do at first is
like, yes, you can play on the

1225
00:51:20,545 --> 00:51:22,975
iPad, you can watch the show or
whatever, but it's not yours.

1226
00:51:23,295 --> 00:51:24,185
So they didn't have it.

1227
00:51:24,970 --> 00:51:27,460
There was like this coming of age
moment with electronics is I feel

1228
00:51:27,460 --> 00:51:30,020
like it's actually like the car
of today in that sense like and

1229
00:51:30,020 --> 00:51:31,200
I know people have used analogy.

1230
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:34,050
It's like when do I get
my driver's license?

1231
00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:36,430
Some kids, but these days
when do I get my phone?

1232
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:40,300
Yeah, so that for us was a
they're in middle school.

1233
00:51:40,775 --> 00:51:43,315
Jenna was also a dangerous time to get
a device, but it was like your stuff.

1234
00:51:44,395 --> 00:51:45,595
You didn't catch the bus.

1235
00:51:45,635 --> 00:51:47,115
Like there's not a teacher there anymore.

1236
00:51:47,115 --> 00:51:48,725
It's like, okay, Johnny,
like get on the bus.

1237
00:51:48,755 --> 00:51:49,955
You know, it's time to go home.

1238
00:51:50,125 --> 00:51:51,595
Like you could literally
just miss the bus.

1239
00:51:51,595 --> 00:51:53,125
And now you're standing there
and you're like, you need to

1240
00:51:53,125 --> 00:51:54,075
be able to communicate with us.

1241
00:51:54,085 --> 00:51:55,935
So pragmatic reason.

1242
00:51:55,955 --> 00:51:56,695
It made sense.

1243
00:51:56,695 --> 00:51:59,355
We're not going to like have you
be the kid who can't communicate

1244
00:51:59,355 --> 00:52:00,195
with their parents who need to.

1245
00:52:00,205 --> 00:52:05,625
But from there, can I just like set
aside a moment to say apples has.

1246
00:52:06,140 --> 00:52:11,170
neglected the needs of parents in
the electronics category in almost

1247
00:52:11,170 --> 00:52:14,840
an unforgivable way, in my opinion,
because screen time is a disaster.

1248
00:52:15,240 --> 00:52:17,530
All of the parental
controls are a disaster.

1249
00:52:17,850 --> 00:52:20,320
They spontaneously or
weirdly stop working.

1250
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:22,010
They turn off, they turn on again.

1251
00:52:22,240 --> 00:52:25,410
If you forget the password,
goodness help you.

1252
00:52:26,250 --> 00:52:29,670
Like, like, you have to
jailbreak your phone practically.

1253
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:31,920
And I've got four kids, so I'm like
literally trying to have to, and

1254
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:32,850
then like one of them finds out.

1255
00:52:32,850 --> 00:52:34,770
You're running tech support
for the whole household.

1256
00:52:34,770 --> 00:52:36,020
Oh my gosh.

1257
00:52:36,230 --> 00:52:40,440
So, so I would say this like, first
you resist the things coming in,

1258
00:52:40,450 --> 00:52:43,070
then you have them, then there's
obviously plenty of talk around

1259
00:52:43,070 --> 00:52:44,975
like, There are bad people out there.

1260
00:52:45,145 --> 00:52:45,785
This is what we're going to allow.

1261
00:52:45,795 --> 00:52:46,255
It's not allowed.

1262
00:52:46,265 --> 00:52:49,455
We had one of those, you know, I, I
bought like a router for the house, like

1263
00:52:49,455 --> 00:52:52,295
one of those Disney branded things, as
opposed to like, looks at all the traffic.

1264
00:52:52,585 --> 00:52:54,025
We locked out certain websites.

1265
00:52:54,165 --> 00:52:57,095
I installed as much as I could,
like, let's keep the crap out.

1266
00:52:58,215 --> 00:53:00,595
But it is ultimately like.

1267
00:53:01,155 --> 00:53:02,705
It is a porous wall.

1268
00:53:02,745 --> 00:53:06,665
Like I don't actually think parents should
assume don't assume that you're gonna

1269
00:53:06,665 --> 00:53:09,775
be able to like keep it all out forever.

1270
00:53:10,195 --> 00:53:11,705
That is a bad assumption.

1271
00:53:12,015 --> 00:53:16,735
And so we also and I would say my
wife obviously like the irony is

1272
00:53:16,735 --> 00:53:19,555
that I'm answering this question
because she is so much better at this.

1273
00:53:19,555 --> 00:53:20,225
But it's like the

1274
00:53:22,275 --> 00:53:26,225
talking about the nasty stuff in
a mature way early, making sure

1275
00:53:26,225 --> 00:53:28,595
they're aware of it, making sure
they understand that exists.

1276
00:53:28,605 --> 00:53:29,125
What's wrong with it?

1277
00:53:29,135 --> 00:53:33,380
All that like Don't have the world break
the news to them of this stuff happening.

1278
00:53:33,380 --> 00:53:38,030
So like, just like a lot of generally
good advice, I feel like, around this.

1279
00:53:38,700 --> 00:53:42,680
Actually executing on it is way
harder because it requires awkward

1280
00:53:42,710 --> 00:53:44,150
conversations and uncomfortable things.

1281
00:53:44,150 --> 00:53:46,760
You're like, is it actually time to
talk to my nine year old about this?

1282
00:53:46,760 --> 00:53:47,830
Like they're only nine.

1283
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:51,840
Like it's very, you know, but then
you're like, okay, but like they

1284
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:54,940
want to have their first sleepover
and like, I don't know how, I

1285
00:53:54,940 --> 00:53:55,950
don't know what's gonna happen.

1286
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:57,340
Like they have different rules.

1287
00:53:57,410 --> 00:54:00,540
And so there's just
really dangerous stuff.

1288
00:54:00,540 --> 00:54:01,750
But I'll say this.

1289
00:54:01,955 --> 00:54:03,255
The oldest 1913.

1290
00:54:03,265 --> 00:54:04,185
That's a six year gap.

1291
00:54:04,955 --> 00:54:07,815
The 19 year old has a very
different relationship with social

1292
00:54:07,815 --> 00:54:10,185
media than the 13 year old even.

1293
00:54:10,255 --> 00:54:13,015
And the people who have kids who are
really young now, I think it's going

1294
00:54:13,015 --> 00:54:14,305
to be different than my 13 year olds.

1295
00:54:14,315 --> 00:54:17,575
So, you know, 13 year olds
and even the 16 year old,

1296
00:54:18,015 --> 00:54:20,175
Snapchat, TikTok, all that stuff.

1297
00:54:20,755 --> 00:54:23,925
It's a thing, you know, we have
the ability to log into their

1298
00:54:23,925 --> 00:54:25,205
accounts anytime we want to.

1299
00:54:25,415 --> 00:54:26,615
We have parental controls.

1300
00:54:26,885 --> 00:54:28,245
We can talk about anytime.

1301
00:54:28,635 --> 00:54:31,395
We will go through it and show them
that we're going to go through it.

1302
00:54:31,780 --> 00:54:35,270
There's no real like we don't read
their snap messages at some point, but

1303
00:54:35,270 --> 00:54:39,910
we can't like it's always like, yeah,
just so you know, like we actually don't

1304
00:54:39,910 --> 00:54:42,160
want to do this and we don't care about
doing this and this isn't something

1305
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:47,110
we want to do, but like don't ever put
anything on there that you would not

1306
00:54:47,110 --> 00:54:51,910
want us to read and know about and that
requires what their crowds of foundation

1307
00:54:52,030 --> 00:54:57,130
where they also know that like they
don't have a lot of secrets, right?

1308
00:54:57,130 --> 00:55:00,630
So it's not like, oh my gosh, I can't
even talk to my friends then because they

1309
00:55:00,630 --> 00:55:02,320
don't realize how I talk to my friends.

1310
00:55:02,500 --> 00:55:06,855
Like As a parent, you have to at least
have that level of like, you know,

1311
00:55:07,915 --> 00:55:11,635
Oh, that's great because I don't care
because like I literally I'm just

1312
00:55:11,635 --> 00:55:14,545
talking to my friends like and you
know how I talk to my friends, right?

1313
00:55:15,055 --> 00:55:20,495
So it's almost like the first test comes
earlier where if they don't have any

1314
00:55:20,495 --> 00:55:26,585
secrets already, then asking for that
transparency and trusting them there.

1315
00:55:27,285 --> 00:55:32,075
You can install, if you will, like
Measures or safety measures that can

1316
00:55:32,075 --> 00:55:34,715
work, have a chance of working that
they're not going to buck immediately

1317
00:55:34,725 --> 00:55:38,165
because they're like, you know, like,
well, then I can't use it at all, you

1318
00:55:38,165 --> 00:55:40,275
know, and they're like, well, why not?

1319
00:55:40,285 --> 00:55:42,245
You know, like now we get now
that's a really it should go like,

1320
00:55:42,245 --> 00:55:44,105
well, why can't you use it at all?

1321
00:55:44,105 --> 00:55:46,275
Like if you're saying that I
can and then they'll come up

1322
00:55:46,275 --> 00:55:47,275
with some excuse or whatever.

1323
00:55:47,275 --> 00:55:50,544
So like maybe what you should be
doing at those younger years is just

1324
00:55:50,545 --> 00:55:53,475
saying like, okay, yeah, my kids are
gonna start talking to their friends

1325
00:55:53,475 --> 00:55:56,655
differently than, you know, maybe
I'm comfortable with or whatever.

1326
00:55:56,655 --> 00:55:59,880
If they say they say that you're
not Trying to like bust them.

1327
00:55:59,880 --> 00:56:03,360
That's not your job in life, but
you're like, if I can't be allowed into

1328
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:05,240
the hall, I can't monitor the hall.

1329
00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:10,460
So I, I need to be allowed in to
as much of their life as possible.

1330
00:56:11,025 --> 00:56:15,225
So that I can stay involved in those
channels for as long as I need to

1331
00:56:15,665 --> 00:56:18,945
until I see, like, they're making good
choices, they're healthy, whatever.

1332
00:56:18,945 --> 00:56:20,955
So, I mean, we've tried to
use all the limits we can.

1333
00:56:21,115 --> 00:56:24,645
I think that trust of, like, letting us
be in there if we want to has been big.

1334
00:56:24,725 --> 00:56:27,555
We don't actually, I think we've used
it, like, every once in a while for,

1335
00:56:27,555 --> 00:56:30,215
like, having those questions, like, Is
everything okay with them or whatever?

1336
00:56:30,235 --> 00:56:31,355
Like, maybe we'll do that.

1337
00:56:31,955 --> 00:56:34,175
Typically, it's funny, you know, like,
you have that fear and then you scroll

1338
00:56:34,175 --> 00:56:35,445
through and you're like, Oh, yeah.

1339
00:56:35,445 --> 00:56:36,855
Like he's a big Seahawks fan.

1340
00:56:36,865 --> 00:56:39,565
Like this is a bunch of highlights
of their game this weekend.

1341
00:56:39,565 --> 00:56:40,785
Like, right.

1342
00:56:40,905 --> 00:56:44,405
It's a really, it's the same
way I use YouTube, right?

1343
00:56:44,405 --> 00:56:48,565
It's like, yeah, they're becoming
like us, you know, that's okay.

1344
00:56:48,595 --> 00:56:49,625
That's actually the goal.

1345
00:56:50,025 --> 00:56:51,065
But is it dangerous?

1346
00:56:51,065 --> 00:56:51,675
Heck yes.

1347
00:56:51,705 --> 00:56:52,785
And is it unhealthy?

1348
00:56:52,815 --> 00:56:54,085
Yes, it can be.

1349
00:56:54,515 --> 00:56:58,465
And I would say like teenagers and mental
health and social media is a giant deal.

1350
00:56:58,485 --> 00:57:01,145
There have definitely been times
where we have installed like strict.

1351
00:57:02,055 --> 00:57:02,985
This is the maximum.

1352
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:07,810
You know, I will say to its credit,
strangely enough, whereas Apple

1353
00:57:07,810 --> 00:57:11,010
has failed, I think some of the
individual apps at the app level have

1354
00:57:11,010 --> 00:57:14,140
done a better job of adding parental
controls than the device makers.

1355
00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:16,160
So just a little, very practical tip.

1356
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:17,400
You'd be surprised.

1357
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:19,010
Go and check those things actually work.

1358
00:57:19,475 --> 00:57:21,705
And we've definitely used those.

1359
00:57:21,715 --> 00:57:24,685
And I think like sometimes kids just
need that health reminder too of

1360
00:57:24,685 --> 00:57:26,905
like, Oh yeah, I have been staring at
my device for two and a half hours.

1361
00:57:26,905 --> 00:57:28,745
Like that's enough for today.

1362
00:57:28,775 --> 00:57:34,315
Like I need to like do something else
and then they will, is it a battle?

1363
00:57:34,325 --> 00:57:34,835
For sure.

1364
00:57:34,895 --> 00:57:39,185
You know, and I would also have phases
where it's like, okay, it's summer.

1365
00:57:39,185 --> 00:57:40,375
You don't have homework or whatever.

1366
00:57:40,895 --> 00:57:43,395
I'm going to like actually do a
little test here and I have a week

1367
00:57:43,395 --> 00:57:46,465
or two or a month where, and this
is when they're teenagers, right?

1368
00:57:47,545 --> 00:57:49,315
There is no limit on the time.

1369
00:57:50,150 --> 00:57:52,980
I want to see how you
self regulate yourself.

1370
00:57:53,470 --> 00:57:55,520
Like, you claim that you
can make good choices.

1371
00:57:55,550 --> 00:57:58,040
Let me actually see if you can't.

1372
00:57:59,730 --> 00:58:00,680
And then what does that do?

1373
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:03,740
It actually allows you to
then collect a bunch of data.

1374
00:58:04,580 --> 00:58:07,190
And go back and have a much
better conversation with it.

1375
00:58:07,190 --> 00:58:08,389
It's a controlled experiment.

1376
00:58:08,390 --> 00:58:11,910
Oh boy, yeah, actually,
that's kind of crazy.

1377
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:16,100
Yes, and then it's like so you see how
like this is why we have these guardrails.

1378
00:58:16,150 --> 00:58:19,430
Yeah, that makes sense I'm not gonna
fight it as much because like I made bad

1379
00:58:19,430 --> 00:58:23,800
choices It didn't kill him But like if
you let them spend those times and you

1380
00:58:23,800 --> 00:58:27,430
can go back and look at it It's just way
more impactful than You put up the wall.

1381
00:58:27,430 --> 00:58:28,260
You can never touch the wall.

1382
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:29,010
Don't go over the wall.

1383
00:58:29,020 --> 00:58:29,770
Don't leave the wall.

1384
00:58:30,140 --> 00:58:31,710
We know how those parables end, right?

1385
00:58:32,150 --> 00:58:35,480
Person leaps over the wall,
never to be seen again.

1386
00:58:35,500 --> 00:58:36,780
Something terrible happens, right?

1387
00:58:37,050 --> 00:58:39,080
This is sort of like, yeah, actually,
we're just gonna put the wall down.

1388
00:58:39,340 --> 00:58:43,390
And like, if you want to try it,
like, we're gonna trust you, right?

1389
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:46,600
And then you can kind of come back,
like, not letting them visit anything

1390
00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:49,810
or do anything, but like, in terms of
certain dimensions, time or whatever.

1391
00:58:50,230 --> 00:58:53,290
Just like bedtimes, like, okay,
yeah, why don't you decide what

1392
00:58:53,290 --> 00:58:54,400
time you're going to bed tonight?

1393
00:58:54,455 --> 00:58:58,015
And I've always found that to
be like having a much better

1394
00:58:58,015 --> 00:59:01,535
conversation than later about
accountability and being like, right.

1395
00:59:01,595 --> 00:59:03,465
So you're not good at this yet.

1396
00:59:03,735 --> 00:59:05,845
Like you don't ebb and flow.

1397
00:59:05,875 --> 00:59:06,735
You just flow.

1398
00:59:08,265 --> 00:59:11,245
You're not like, well, I went to bed at
eight the next night to make up for it.

1399
00:59:11,245 --> 00:59:12,225
It's like, no, actually you did it.

1400
00:59:12,385 --> 00:59:16,925
You know, you just every night, it was,
you just kept abusing the privilege.

1401
00:59:16,955 --> 00:59:21,055
And so those are fun conversations to have
though, because now I feel like the kid

1402
00:59:21,055 --> 00:59:22,745
is going like, Oh, this is how I earn.

1403
00:59:23,700 --> 00:59:27,220
Liberties to like decide for myself
is by showing that I can handle

1404
00:59:27,220 --> 00:59:31,750
them responsibly versus like, I just
can't ever go past a certain line.

1405
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:32,130
Right?

1406
00:59:32,430 --> 00:59:32,690
Right.

1407
00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:35,750
Because all of this is about knowing
I said earlier, it was about me

1408
00:59:35,750 --> 00:59:36,900
knowing when I could give up.

1409
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:38,590
I could cross a line with my health.

1410
00:59:38,590 --> 00:59:41,150
I could cross a line with
this temporarily, right?

1411
00:59:41,590 --> 00:59:44,470
But then coming back and like,
just learning to regulate yourself.

1412
00:59:44,470 --> 00:59:45,700
So that was our goal.

1413
00:59:46,445 --> 00:59:47,345
We're still not there.

1414
00:59:47,625 --> 00:59:48,605
I'll take my advice.

1415
00:59:48,715 --> 00:59:49,135
Talk to me.

1416
00:59:49,135 --> 00:59:52,605
And if the kids turn out like okay
and well adjusted like in 10 years,

1417
00:59:53,435 --> 00:59:55,525
great, but man, it's terrible.

1418
00:59:55,525 --> 00:59:58,505
And I definitely have thoughts like I
think it will be not unsurprising if

1419
00:59:58,555 --> 01:00:03,495
years from now there's there's more
of a realization that like, okay,

1420
01:00:03,495 --> 01:00:07,075
this is actually as dangerous as like
smoking for the brain or whatever.

1421
01:00:08,185 --> 01:00:12,015
We need to do more than just
what it is we're doing now.

1422
01:00:12,085 --> 01:00:14,685
And I don't know what that is, you
know, remove the nicotine, if you

1423
01:00:14,685 --> 01:00:16,395
will, from the equation, right?

1424
01:00:16,745 --> 01:00:18,935
Yeah, you know, that's gotta be the thing.

1425
01:00:18,935 --> 01:00:20,455
And then I'm guilty as charged, man.

1426
01:00:20,455 --> 01:00:23,635
I was reading books, reading those habit
forming product design books, right?

1427
01:00:23,705 --> 01:00:26,175
Like, isn't that what
we're supposed to be doing?

1428
01:00:26,235 --> 01:00:26,695
Aneer et

1429
01:00:26,695 --> 01:00:29,865
Adam Fishman: al, author of Hooked
on the podcast, uh, last week.

1430
01:00:29,865 --> 01:00:30,295
Oh my gosh,

1431
01:00:31,135 --> 01:00:32,345
Matt Wensing: that's the book, yeah.

1432
01:00:32,425 --> 01:00:33,635
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1433
01:00:34,255 --> 01:00:34,605
Adam Fishman: I read

1434
01:00:34,605 --> 01:00:34,805
Matt Wensing: it.

1435
01:00:34,945 --> 01:00:36,235
I implemented some of that.

1436
01:00:36,265 --> 01:00:37,125
I get it.

1437
01:00:38,475 --> 01:00:38,655
Yeah.

1438
01:00:38,655 --> 01:00:39,405
I don't know if we know.

1439
01:00:39,405 --> 01:00:40,455
I gotta listen to that now.

1440
01:00:40,455 --> 01:00:40,875
I'm super

1441
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:41,325
Adam Fishman: curious.

1442
01:00:41,325 --> 01:00:41,535
Yeah.

1443
01:00:41,595 --> 01:00:44,655
We've now talked about the
opposite of like how you stay

1444
01:00:44,655 --> 01:00:47,955
focused, avoid distraction, good.

1445
01:00:48,135 --> 01:00:50,775
And build healthy habits,
which I think is important.

1446
01:00:50,895 --> 01:00:50,985
Nice.

1447
01:00:50,985 --> 01:00:52,185
So that's what I want.

1448
01:00:52,365 --> 01:00:56,475
I wanted to end with one other question,
which is the last topic that you had

1449
01:00:56,475 --> 01:00:58,835
mentioned to me in our prep for this call.

1450
01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:06,350
Which is around aging parents and kind
of managing parents and becoming a parent

1451
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:08,070
to your parents and things like that.

1452
01:01:08,620 --> 01:01:10,270
You mentioned losing a parent.

1453
01:01:10,880 --> 01:01:15,885
And you also mentioned that there are
Kind of a bunch of truths that you

1454
01:01:15,885 --> 01:01:18,195
discover or learn about when that happens.

1455
01:01:18,565 --> 01:01:24,355
And so I'm curious to hear
about what you meant by that.

1456
01:01:25,435 --> 01:01:25,855
Matt Wensing: Yeah.

1457
01:01:26,275 --> 01:01:26,565
Yeah.

1458
01:01:26,565 --> 01:01:28,255
So I lost my dad in 2017.

1459
01:01:28,825 --> 01:01:33,335
So I was, I wasn't young, but
I was 30, I wasn't old either,

1460
01:01:34,235 --> 01:01:36,605
30, uh, 35, 36, basically.

1461
01:01:37,185 --> 01:01:42,035
Actually, I think it's 35 long, long,
well, it was, he had cancer, so it

1462
01:01:42,035 --> 01:01:44,005
was losing him in a way that like.

1463
01:01:45,130 --> 01:01:49,320
But then it sort of unfolded over the
course of months, you know, and like

1464
01:01:49,490 --> 01:01:54,815
just with him in particular, like I
had what was really amazing about that

1465
01:01:54,825 --> 01:01:58,784
was, and the story gets to the trues,
he spent over 50 days in the ICU.

1466
01:01:58,865 --> 01:02:00,645
Most of those days he could talk.

1467
01:02:01,335 --> 01:02:06,255
And so, I mean, I say the greatest
gift through all of that, as awful as

1468
01:02:06,255 --> 01:02:09,435
it was like being able to talk to him.

1469
01:02:11,315 --> 01:02:15,815
I mean, you know, like the,
the, the gift is like, you kind

1470
01:02:15,815 --> 01:02:17,425
of know what's coming, right?

1471
01:02:17,495 --> 01:02:17,765
Yeah.

1472
01:02:17,765 --> 01:02:21,585
And so like you suddenly have
no, a lot of those inhibitions

1473
01:02:21,615 --> 01:02:23,335
and fears just disappear, right?

1474
01:02:23,365 --> 01:02:24,095
And melt away.

1475
01:02:24,095 --> 01:02:24,135
Yeah.

1476
01:02:24,135 --> 01:02:24,145
Yeah.

1477
01:02:24,145 --> 01:02:24,154
Absolutely.

1478
01:02:24,625 --> 01:02:26,235
And let you get at those truths, right?

1479
01:02:26,235 --> 01:02:30,295
Without that thing of like, Oh, I'll ask
him next Thanksgiving, or I don't need

1480
01:02:30,295 --> 01:02:33,405
to know that, or what if he says this,
and then that really hurts, whatever.

1481
01:02:33,405 --> 01:02:39,625
So, like, that was one part, was
just like, nothing, no dumb question,

1482
01:02:39,795 --> 01:02:41,965
no question, no time, and then
there's no time like the present.

1483
01:02:41,985 --> 01:02:43,095
Literally, there's only the present.

1484
01:02:43,635 --> 01:02:44,335
So that was part of it.

1485
01:02:44,335 --> 01:02:48,905
And then the other part was just, yeah,
like, you, you look back and sort of

1486
01:02:48,945 --> 01:02:54,045
realize Life is obviously extremely good
and our brains are really good at only

1487
01:02:54,045 --> 01:02:55,605
remembering the good parts, you know.

1488
01:02:56,095 --> 01:02:58,755
And I think the other truth I learned
is that like, not everybody has the same

1489
01:02:58,755 --> 01:03:02,835
relationship, not every kid has the same
relationship with the parent that you do.

1490
01:03:03,685 --> 01:03:06,525
Seems obvious, I've even said it a
couple times during this talk, but like,

1491
01:03:06,875 --> 01:03:11,365
when you lose a parent, interesting how
different siblings process it, interesting

1492
01:03:11,365 --> 01:03:15,515
how, you know, their spouse processes
it, like, that teaches you a lot of

1493
01:03:15,535 --> 01:03:19,300
truths about, oh my, you know, he was
sort of a different person I think it

1494
01:03:19,300 --> 01:03:22,660
was a different person to each of us,
but he kind of was a different function

1495
01:03:22,660 --> 01:03:24,390
and person and role for each of us.

1496
01:03:24,860 --> 01:03:25,140
Adam Fishman: Yeah.

1497
01:03:25,190 --> 01:03:27,550
Matt Wensing: And it doesn't
mean that he did it right.

1498
01:03:27,620 --> 01:03:31,180
Like in some of those cases, you know,
maybe the role he played or the function

1499
01:03:31,180 --> 01:03:33,580
he wasn't adequate, you know, definitely.

1500
01:03:34,010 --> 01:03:37,150
But then you realize like, oh, but once
you establish that, you're like, oh, wow.

1501
01:03:37,150 --> 01:03:39,420
But then there were these
common things like, oh, with

1502
01:03:39,420 --> 01:03:40,660
each of us, he was like this.

1503
01:03:41,035 --> 01:03:42,315
Oh, that's really interesting.

1504
01:03:42,315 --> 01:03:45,545
Like that's like a, that's a
common way he interact with us.

1505
01:03:45,715 --> 01:03:47,545
And then you sort of take that way
and go like, Oh, I didn't think of

1506
01:03:47,545 --> 01:03:50,535
that as like potentially even unique,
but now I realized that it's shared.

1507
01:03:51,535 --> 01:03:53,945
Now we're getting at like the
values that he must've had.

1508
01:03:54,145 --> 01:03:54,485
Right.

1509
01:03:54,485 --> 01:03:58,505
Because he bothered to
do that with each of us.

1510
01:03:58,555 --> 01:03:58,845
Right.

1511
01:03:58,865 --> 01:04:03,485
That was important enough for him to like,
not forget for each of us to be that way.

1512
01:04:04,655 --> 01:04:06,165
So you learn a lot about a person.

1513
01:04:06,235 --> 01:04:10,885
I tell you one funny story was, I think
this happened after the fact we were and

1514
01:04:10,885 --> 01:04:13,275
like growing up sitting on the couch.

1515
01:04:13,635 --> 01:04:17,785
He had a sweet tooth and so did I and to
this day I'll catch myself like putting

1516
01:04:17,785 --> 01:04:20,885
some ice cream in a bowl at the end of the
day or whatever I'm like this is like just

1517
01:04:20,885 --> 01:04:25,015
like like I'm like wearing practically
the same like yeah had uniform that he

1518
01:04:25,015 --> 01:04:28,525
did I'm like what the white undershirt
and the shorts are like holy cow this

1519
01:04:28,545 --> 01:04:32,085
is crazy but we always used to have like
this candy jar next to the thing and

1520
01:04:32,125 --> 01:04:35,785
he loved the jujubees like they're like
these chewable little gum candies or

1521
01:04:35,785 --> 01:04:37,400
whatever They get stuck in your teeth.

1522
01:04:37,410 --> 01:04:40,360
They're like, Oh, I guess it's just like
fun to pick at them while you're watching

1523
01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:42,170
a really long dentist's nightmare.

1524
01:04:43,420 --> 01:04:45,280
Yeah, there's any
flossers right next to it.

1525
01:04:45,660 --> 01:04:49,170
But I always, as a kid, obviously I
love the orange ones and the orange

1526
01:04:49,170 --> 01:04:50,530
ones and the red ones, the yellow ones.

1527
01:04:50,530 --> 01:04:51,460
Like those were delicious.

1528
01:04:51,750 --> 01:04:55,310
And then they had a green flavor,
which was like winter green mint or

1529
01:04:55,310 --> 01:04:59,480
something, and a black flavor, which
is like licorice and I hated those of

1530
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:02,770
the passion and my dad would always
like sit down and make, he would

1531
01:05:02,770 --> 01:05:04,350
always sit down, he'd open up the jar.

1532
01:05:04,610 --> 01:05:07,720
And like, you know, I'd take some,
obviously I would choose the ones I like.

1533
01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:09,930
And then he would always take
the green and the black ones.

1534
01:05:10,375 --> 01:05:14,015
And I was like, he's like, these are
so good or whatever he would say that.

1535
01:05:14,495 --> 01:05:18,205
And I was like, man, he is so weird
to like, I can't, I don't know how

1536
01:05:18,205 --> 01:05:19,265
he could like those or whatever.

1537
01:05:19,265 --> 01:05:20,405
That's so strange.

1538
01:05:21,975 --> 01:05:22,905
Come to find out.

1539
01:05:23,365 --> 01:05:26,405
And I can't confirm this
now because he's gone.

1540
01:05:26,435 --> 01:05:29,815
But rumor has it that he
didn't like him either.

1541
01:05:32,125 --> 01:05:34,365
But two values at play.

1542
01:05:34,375 --> 01:05:37,715
One is he was frugal and he
hated to see things go to waste.

1543
01:05:38,475 --> 01:05:39,015
Two,

1544
01:05:41,705 --> 01:05:44,105
what meant more to him
than anything was us.

1545
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:50,580
Getting to have the good ones because
he was a provider first and foremost.

1546
01:05:50,880 --> 01:05:58,110
So yeah, he loves us getting to have
the good ones more than he would have

1547
01:05:58,110 --> 01:05:59,530
enjoyed the good ones for himself.

1548
01:06:00,070 --> 01:06:00,500
Wow.

1549
01:06:01,230 --> 01:06:01,420
Wow.

1550
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:04,150
And like, that's like a vignette
of like, then you're like,

1551
01:06:04,220 --> 01:06:05,580
Oh my God, that fits, right?

1552
01:06:05,580 --> 01:06:08,700
That fits because like his whole
life, you know, he's an imperfect

1553
01:06:08,700 --> 01:06:11,820
person, but like you then see that
throughout the life of a person.

1554
01:06:11,820 --> 01:06:12,090
You're like, Oh

1555
01:06:12,090 --> 01:06:12,620
Adam Fishman: my gosh,

1556
01:06:12,660 --> 01:06:14,570
Matt Wensing: that's why, that's
the same reason he did this and

1557
01:06:14,570 --> 01:06:15,750
that's the same reason he did that.

1558
01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:18,710
That's the same reason that, you know, he
ate the peanut butter and jelly sandwich

1559
01:06:18,710 --> 01:06:20,400
so we could go off to college and do this.

1560
01:06:20,400 --> 01:06:24,530
Like, yeah, those are like unlocks
that you get sort of when you

1561
01:06:24,530 --> 01:06:25,630
take the time to reflect back.

1562
01:06:25,630 --> 01:06:28,810
And I think, you know, maybe you
can do that, you know, hopefully

1563
01:06:28,810 --> 01:06:30,650
we can do that with each other
when we're still here, but.

1564
01:06:31,380 --> 01:06:34,920
You condense all that down to like, you
know, a certain amount of time and you

1565
01:06:34,920 --> 01:06:39,320
share those stories and you go, Oh my
goodness, you know, I never knew that.

1566
01:06:39,340 --> 01:06:42,760
And like, it actually says
way more about life and him

1567
01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:44,460
and anything than like flavors

1568
01:06:45,020 --> 01:06:46,050
Adam Fishman: of gummies.

1569
01:06:46,210 --> 01:06:48,600
What an amazing story.

1570
01:06:48,620 --> 01:06:55,040
And yet like such a simple story about
jujubes to teach you so much about your

1571
01:06:55,040 --> 01:06:58,050
dad and like, I, what an amazing story.

1572
01:06:58,190 --> 01:07:00,980
Matt Wensing: And we don't know what
little story we're creating for ours.

1573
01:07:01,270 --> 01:07:01,810
Right now.

1574
01:07:02,050 --> 01:07:02,330
Right.

1575
01:07:02,360 --> 01:07:02,740
Yeah.

1576
01:07:02,810 --> 01:07:02,950
But

1577
01:07:02,950 --> 01:07:03,450
Adam Fishman: we can.

1578
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:04,700
Matt Wensing: Yeah, we can.

1579
01:07:06,110 --> 01:07:06,490
Adam Fishman: All right.

1580
01:07:06,490 --> 01:07:11,440
Well, that fantastic story
is a great thing to end on.

1581
01:07:11,540 --> 01:07:14,670
And so I wanted to ask you one
final question that I ask everyone

1582
01:07:14,680 --> 01:07:16,640
before we get to rapid fire.

1583
01:07:16,880 --> 01:07:20,480
How can people follow
along or be helpful to you?

1584
01:07:21,045 --> 01:07:21,785
Matt Wensing: I tweet a lot.

1585
01:07:21,795 --> 01:07:23,755
It says my channel an addiction of choice.

1586
01:07:23,765 --> 01:07:24,935
So Matt Wensing there.

1587
01:07:25,435 --> 01:07:28,045
Yeah, I just tweet what comes
to mind often and regularly.

1588
01:07:28,065 --> 01:07:29,605
So love follows there.

1589
01:07:29,605 --> 01:07:32,495
And then if you happen to be interested
in no code or automation, that's

1590
01:07:32,495 --> 01:07:33,755
the company that working on now.

1591
01:07:34,125 --> 01:07:35,615
Love you to check it out summit.

1592
01:07:35,645 --> 01:07:38,115
But yeah, in general, and I'm
always looking for just yeah,

1593
01:07:38,115 --> 01:07:39,505
interesting folks, new perspectives.

1594
01:07:39,505 --> 01:07:42,290
I try to make it a goal to
follow people who Disagree with

1595
01:07:42,310 --> 01:07:43,620
me as well on the internet.

1596
01:07:43,910 --> 01:07:47,120
It just provides that little bit of
like, what is it that I'm missing?

1597
01:07:47,150 --> 01:07:48,460
So yeah, I love that.

1598
01:07:48,460 --> 01:07:49,720
Let me know what you think of my thoughts.

1599
01:07:50,350 --> 01:07:50,790
Adam Fishman: All right.

1600
01:07:50,790 --> 01:07:55,660
Well, we will link to your
Twitter slash X profile.

1601
01:07:55,720 --> 01:07:58,110
Yeah in the show notes
along with your company.

1602
01:07:58,190 --> 01:08:01,180
So excited to send some
people that way All right.

1603
01:08:01,190 --> 01:08:02,840
Are you ready for rapid fire?

1604
01:08:03,170 --> 01:08:03,610
Hit me.

1605
01:08:03,910 --> 01:08:08,400
What is the most indispensable parenting
product that you have ever purchased?

1606
01:08:08,790 --> 01:08:09,710
Matt Wensing: The Ergo Baby

1607
01:08:09,710 --> 01:08:10,250
Adam Fishman: Carrier.

1608
01:08:10,960 --> 01:08:11,630
Ah.

1609
01:08:12,060 --> 01:08:15,410
What is the most useless parenting
product that you have ever purchased?

1610
01:08:16,300 --> 01:08:18,410
Matt Wensing: Those playmobiles
are supposed to be in and be

1611
01:08:18,410 --> 01:08:19,640
entertained for a long time?

1612
01:08:19,920 --> 01:08:20,690
That are giant?

1613
01:08:21,110 --> 01:08:21,680
And they don't use?

1614
01:08:21,700 --> 01:08:22,020
Yep.

1615
01:08:22,300 --> 01:08:22,610
Yes.

1616
01:08:22,610 --> 01:08:23,100
Yes.

1617
01:08:24,310 --> 01:08:28,020
Most frustrating thing that has
ever happened to you as a dad?

1618
01:08:28,590 --> 01:08:32,590
Just the inability to
get a kid to go to sleep.

1619
01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:36,670
I mean, that's just That, to me, was the
peak of like, I don't know what I'm doing.

1620
01:08:36,700 --> 01:08:37,290
I'm failing.

1621
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:38,280
I'm at my knees.

1622
01:08:38,280 --> 01:08:41,139
Yes.

1623
01:08:41,140 --> 01:08:41,590
I'm begging you.

1624
01:08:41,590 --> 01:08:43,940
Three hour bedtimes.

1625
01:08:45,620 --> 01:08:48,980
What are the favorite ages for your kids?

1626
01:08:50,160 --> 01:08:51,270
Oh, okay.

1627
01:08:51,330 --> 01:08:57,610
I would say, I'm loving the teenage years,
but I really miss the Probably the nine,

1628
01:08:57,610 --> 01:09:03,120
10, 11, 12, the preteen but grown up,
you know, those go to the national parks

1629
01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:04,800
and spend all day together kind of times.

1630
01:09:04,810 --> 01:09:07,160
You can do that now as you're
older, but they're just more

1631
01:09:07,160 --> 01:09:08,350
like adults and that's different.

1632
01:09:09,210 --> 01:09:09,380
Yeah.

1633
01:09:09,380 --> 01:09:09,640
Yeah.

1634
01:09:09,930 --> 01:09:10,840
Adam Fishman: How many

1635
01:09:10,920 --> 01:09:13,990
Matt Wensing: dad jokes
do you tell on average in

1636
01:09:13,990 --> 01:09:14,660
Adam Fishman: a given day?

1637
01:09:14,980 --> 01:09:16,040
Matt Wensing: I'll go with one.

1638
01:09:16,140 --> 01:09:17,540
I think that might be a little high.

1639
01:09:17,560 --> 01:09:21,690
I try to We're definitely at a multi
week, multiple per week basis, and some

1640
01:09:21,690 --> 01:09:25,840
of the kids will even tell them to me
now, which just feeds my, feeds my ego.

1641
01:09:26,310 --> 01:09:26,600
Yep.

1642
01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:27,170
Adam Fishman: Yep.

1643
01:09:27,630 --> 01:09:27,990
Yes.

1644
01:09:28,050 --> 01:09:31,780
Because you have four teenagers, I am
sure that you have embarrassed them a

1645
01:09:31,780 --> 01:09:34,310
lot, even if you were not trying to.

1646
01:09:34,525 --> 01:09:38,595
What is the most embarrassing thing that
you've ever done in front of your kids,

1647
01:09:38,615 --> 01:09:42,005
or perhaps the thing that they told
you was the most embarrassing thing?

1648
01:09:42,785 --> 01:09:44,015
Maybe when there's like a sleepover or

1649
01:09:44,015 --> 01:09:44,745
Matt Wensing: something like that.

1650
01:09:44,755 --> 01:09:48,735
Actually, There's sleepovers or
something like that and like, yeah,

1651
01:09:48,735 --> 01:09:51,245
they're hanging out, they're talking,
conversation, breakfast or whatever.

1652
01:09:52,145 --> 01:09:55,060
Like, I may be making breakfast or
whatever, Maybe sometimes I'm like a

1653
01:09:55,060 --> 01:09:58,390
little bit too present or involved or
like, you know, am I like telling a

1654
01:09:58,390 --> 01:10:02,130
joke or two, you know, like maybe my
hovering skills aren't perfected yet.

1655
01:10:02,140 --> 01:10:05,700
Like you got to know when to like
swoop in, provide the sustenance

1656
01:10:05,700 --> 01:10:09,220
and then like swoop out, you know,
and like, you know, I don't want

1657
01:10:09,220 --> 01:10:10,250
to be the guy with the skateboards.

1658
01:10:10,270 --> 01:10:12,870
Like, how's it going kids thing too much.

1659
01:10:13,850 --> 01:10:15,419
So I think I've done that.

1660
01:10:15,420 --> 01:10:16,340
I think I've done that.

1661
01:10:16,370 --> 01:10:18,910
And I just like, maybe, yeah,
that I know I've done that.

1662
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:20,010
Okay.

1663
01:10:20,090 --> 01:10:23,280
And you probably hear about it for
many, many, many hours afterwards.

1664
01:10:23,510 --> 01:10:24,100
Yeah.

1665
01:10:24,100 --> 01:10:24,880
Yeah, exactly.

1666
01:10:24,900 --> 01:10:26,920
Or somebody points it out
to me afterwards, like, you

1667
01:10:26,920 --> 01:10:29,170
know, like, oh, yeah, yeah,

1668
01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:29,610
Adam Fishman: yeah.

1669
01:10:29,740 --> 01:10:34,620
What is the most absurd thing
that one of your kids has ever

1670
01:10:34,650 --> 01:10:36,040
asked you to buy for them?

1671
01:10:36,940 --> 01:10:37,690
Matt Wensing: Oh, okay.

1672
01:10:37,770 --> 01:10:38,700
First answer.

1673
01:10:38,730 --> 01:10:39,690
And she's going to love this.

1674
01:10:39,710 --> 01:10:40,900
Our oldest really.

1675
01:10:40,980 --> 01:10:41,830
We just got a cat.

1676
01:10:41,850 --> 01:10:42,600
She's still with us.

1677
01:10:42,640 --> 01:10:43,300
Amazingly.

1678
01:10:43,630 --> 01:10:46,080
Old cat now, but she's a stray came.

1679
01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:48,500
We went to a pet store to get
like the essentials and there was

1680
01:10:48,500 --> 01:10:51,580
like a how to like raise your cat
book or something on one of those

1681
01:10:51,590 --> 01:10:52,770
like little racks or whatever.

1682
01:10:52,970 --> 01:10:56,000
It's like 1495 or something
like, honey, we don't need that.

1683
01:10:56,100 --> 01:10:57,340
We really don't need that.

1684
01:10:57,340 --> 01:10:59,540
Like, I know it's cute, but it has
a picture of a cat in the front.

1685
01:10:59,540 --> 01:11:01,880
She's like a, she's like
a five year old girl.

1686
01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:03,670
She wants it desperately,
you know, or whatever.

1687
01:11:03,670 --> 01:11:06,180
And I'm like, she wanted it so bad.

1688
01:11:06,220 --> 01:11:06,520
Yeah.

1689
01:11:06,550 --> 01:11:08,400
I later asked her how that felt.

1690
01:11:08,400 --> 01:11:11,260
And she said she was pretty
devastated that I didn't get it for

1691
01:11:11,260 --> 01:11:13,230
her, but the absurdity was just.

1692
01:11:13,390 --> 01:11:19,280
How badly she wanted it and like the
ratio to the value and just like maybe

1693
01:11:19,280 --> 01:11:21,290
it wasn't like the most absurd thing,
but like it was one of the things

1694
01:11:21,290 --> 01:11:22,920
like I gotta put my foot down right?

1695
01:11:22,950 --> 01:11:26,940
Like I can't just I can't just throw this
in the shopping cart like I can't do that.

1696
01:11:26,950 --> 01:11:29,310
So like there's a lot of cat
information on the internet.

1697
01:11:30,140 --> 01:11:30,570
Adam Fishman: Okay.

1698
01:11:30,570 --> 01:11:30,760
Yeah.

1699
01:11:31,000 --> 01:11:34,154
What is your favorite kids movie?

1700
01:11:35,635 --> 01:11:37,005
Matt Wensing: Oh, how
to train your dragon.

1701
01:11:37,755 --> 01:11:37,985
Hands down.

1702
01:11:37,995 --> 01:11:38,515
Good one.

1703
01:11:38,845 --> 01:11:39,155
Good one.

1704
01:11:39,195 --> 01:11:40,575
Ah, wells me up.

1705
01:11:41,295 --> 01:11:41,675
Good one.

1706
01:11:41,675 --> 01:11:46,105
Adam Fishman: What is the worst experience
that you have ever had assembling a

1707
01:11:46,195 --> 01:11:48,875
kid's toy or a piece of furniture?

1708
01:11:49,625 --> 01:11:51,075
Oh, insert

1709
01:11:51,765 --> 01:11:57,505
Matt Wensing: Ikea, probably bookshelf,
where I realize at the very end

1710
01:11:57,545 --> 01:12:00,315
that piece A is actually reversible.

1711
01:12:00,990 --> 01:12:04,270
And while you can screw in the
things to the sawdust board on

1712
01:12:04,290 --> 01:12:07,360
either side, if you do it wrong,
you're, you can't put the back on it.

1713
01:12:07,360 --> 01:12:07,980
I mean, that's it.

1714
01:12:08,730 --> 01:12:09,350
You're over.

1715
01:12:09,540 --> 01:12:09,930
Yes.

1716
01:12:09,990 --> 01:12:12,510
I've actually rebuilt those
things multiple times before and

1717
01:12:12,510 --> 01:12:14,200
screwed up differently each time.

1718
01:12:16,140 --> 01:12:16,480
Yes.

1719
01:12:16,490 --> 01:12:16,660
But

1720
01:12:16,660 --> 01:12:18,450
Adam Fishman: the
instructions are just so good.

1721
01:12:18,480 --> 01:12:20,240
How do you have words on them?

1722
01:12:20,240 --> 01:12:21,250
They're so clear, right?

1723
01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:24,410
Okay.

1724
01:12:24,410 --> 01:12:28,180
Have you ever accidentally mixed
up your kid's names and are you

1725
01:12:28,230 --> 01:12:30,390
ever able to get your twins names?

1726
01:12:30,390 --> 01:12:30,930
Correct.

1727
01:12:31,840 --> 01:12:32,220
Matt Wensing: Okay.

1728
01:12:32,230 --> 01:12:34,030
So fortunately they're fraternal.

1729
01:12:34,050 --> 01:12:37,610
So you'd think that I never would screwed
up, but I mean, I have definitely done

1730
01:12:37,610 --> 01:12:42,830
the blurred out the, you know, Jack,
you know, whatever, actually I met you

1731
01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:47,900
person and they just look at me and
they're like, Okay, like with the girls,

1732
01:12:47,920 --> 01:12:51,340
I have actually started at one end of
the age spectrum and had to work my way

1733
01:12:51,340 --> 01:12:53,770
down just named all the names exactly.

1734
01:12:53,990 --> 01:12:56,390
I think it's apparent, like, you know,
you're at the end when you just say,

1735
01:12:56,390 --> 01:13:01,150
like, you just start using words like
thing and the do the do the verb the

1736
01:13:01,160 --> 01:13:04,790
thing as you're like, yeah, because you
just I can't come up with the words.

1737
01:13:04,790 --> 01:13:05,660
Could you just fill them in?

1738
01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:06,040
Please?

1739
01:13:06,080 --> 01:13:06,330
Yeah.

1740
01:13:06,370 --> 01:13:06,600
Adam Fishman: Yeah.

1741
01:13:06,700 --> 01:13:06,970
All right.

1742
01:13:06,970 --> 01:13:11,860
You have a very hairy cow
looking dog in the background.

1743
01:13:11,870 --> 01:13:15,030
So this may influence Transcribed
Your answer, but how long can

1744
01:13:15,030 --> 01:13:18,840
a piece of food sit on your
floor and you will still eat it?

1745
01:13:20,050 --> 01:13:24,450
Matt Wensing: Oh, yeah, so, the,
yeah, the cow dog definitely messes

1746
01:13:24,450 --> 01:13:26,920
this up because you can't, you
just can't blow that stuff off.

1747
01:13:26,970 --> 01:13:27,780
It doesn't work.

1748
01:13:28,160 --> 01:13:30,090
You know, a piece of fruit or
grape or something, you know,

1749
01:13:30,090 --> 01:13:33,120
grapes have that, like, shell and
if you rinse it off Thank you.

1750
01:13:33,530 --> 01:13:34,700
Come on skates.

1751
01:13:34,710 --> 01:13:37,240
So like there's, you know, there's
definitely like the 10 second rule there.

1752
01:13:37,240 --> 01:13:40,580
I'll tell you a friend of mine once
said when the family was younger,

1753
01:13:40,800 --> 01:13:43,560
kids would waste all this food and
it was like that frugal mentality.

1754
01:13:43,560 --> 01:13:46,030
We're like, there's like
half a burger on a plate.

1755
01:13:46,450 --> 01:13:49,350
And so I'm like, sometimes I eat my
burger and then like I have another

1756
01:13:49,350 --> 01:13:50,570
portion because like I eat the hamburger.

1757
01:13:50,710 --> 01:13:54,440
My friend goes like, wait, so you're
eating trash like it's not trash.

1758
01:13:54,440 --> 01:13:56,850
He's like, you're about to
scrape it into the trash.

1759
01:13:57,230 --> 01:13:57,734
I'm like, yeah.

1760
01:13:58,285 --> 01:14:02,395
It is not garbage until it
goes into the trash kit, okay?

1761
01:14:03,245 --> 01:14:06,455
Before you do the scraping motion,
it is completely edible food.

1762
01:14:06,455 --> 01:14:07,345
It's still food.

1763
01:14:07,825 --> 01:14:08,324
Adam Fishman: It's still food.

1764
01:14:08,325 --> 01:14:08,785
Love that.

1765
01:14:09,035 --> 01:14:09,525
Love that.

1766
01:14:10,185 --> 01:14:15,945
Uh, what is Your absolute favorite
nostalgic movie that you have

1767
01:14:15,945 --> 01:14:17,865
forced your children to watch.

1768
01:14:18,615 --> 01:14:19,135
Well,

1769
01:14:19,645 --> 01:14:22,375
Matt Wensing: I started to watch The
Goonies with them and then I realized

1770
01:14:22,385 --> 01:14:26,485
that movie was actually not age
appropriate yet and I had no idea because

1771
01:14:26,485 --> 01:14:29,345
I think 80s brain just like blots out.

1772
01:14:29,890 --> 01:14:33,550
So much of the stuff definitely
forced them to watch a fair

1773
01:14:33,550 --> 01:14:35,170
amount of Jurassic Park.

1774
01:14:35,240 --> 01:14:37,900
I remember going through that
trilogy a little bit older.

1775
01:14:37,910 --> 01:14:39,900
The Matrix was a must, was must see.

1776
01:14:40,280 --> 01:14:41,320
So that was probably older.

1777
01:14:41,560 --> 01:14:44,030
National Lampoon's Christmas
Vacation is one that I finally

1778
01:14:44,030 --> 01:14:45,120
got to introduce them to.

1779
01:14:45,550 --> 01:14:47,730
Like, this is what a
dysfunctional family looks like.

1780
01:14:47,730 --> 01:14:49,830
Now they're all teenagers
now, so don't get me wrong.

1781
01:14:50,220 --> 01:14:53,495
But those are some of the ones where
they're like, Yeah, they wouldn't

1782
01:14:53,495 --> 01:14:56,365
have chosen it themselves, but
we now have a common vocabulary.

1783
01:14:56,445 --> 01:14:56,785
Yes.

1784
01:14:56,855 --> 01:14:57,255
Awesome.

1785
01:14:57,595 --> 01:14:58,015
That is a

1786
01:14:58,025 --> 01:14:59,365
Adam Fishman: good, that is a good list.

1787
01:14:59,545 --> 01:14:59,735
Yes.

1788
01:14:59,765 --> 01:14:59,985
All right.

1789
01:14:59,995 --> 01:15:01,375
Two final questions for you.

1790
01:15:01,385 --> 01:15:05,805
How often do you tell your
kids back in my day stories?

1791
01:15:05,925 --> 01:15:07,965
Oh, all the, all the time,

1792
01:15:08,065 --> 01:15:08,565
Matt Wensing: all the time.

1793
01:15:08,565 --> 01:15:12,305
And I kind of feel like there's a bit
of a duty here where they kind of need

1794
01:15:12,305 --> 01:15:13,955
to know, like, I think that's good.

1795
01:15:14,755 --> 01:15:15,935
If you start with that phrase, sure.

1796
01:15:15,935 --> 01:15:19,575
You're just like the, you know,
grandpa Simpson, uh, at the cloud, but.

1797
01:15:19,985 --> 01:15:22,515
I think, like, I always
enjoyed those stories because

1798
01:15:22,515 --> 01:15:23,485
they put life in perspective.

1799
01:15:23,485 --> 01:15:25,595
When my dad would say them,
I still share those stories.

1800
01:15:25,595 --> 01:15:28,905
So, you know, yeah, they can be,
they're tacky and they can be whatever.

1801
01:15:28,905 --> 01:15:32,495
But it's useful anchoring, you
know, and I, you know, listen

1802
01:15:32,495 --> 01:15:33,455
to me, I'm defending them.

1803
01:15:33,465 --> 01:15:34,905
So I use them a lot.

1804
01:15:34,925 --> 01:15:35,455
I'm sorry.

1805
01:15:35,485 --> 01:15:35,855
Yes.

1806
01:15:37,505 --> 01:15:38,025
Adam Fishman: All right.

1807
01:15:38,045 --> 01:15:44,005
And finally, four children
plus a large dog and a spouse.

1808
01:15:44,415 --> 01:15:46,725
What is your take on minivans?

1809
01:15:47,310 --> 01:15:48,550
Oh, get them.

1810
01:15:48,810 --> 01:15:49,270
Get them.

1811
01:15:49,330 --> 01:15:49,720
Yes.

1812
01:15:49,740 --> 01:15:53,560
Matt Wensing: I mean, definitely like
we had a little, we had a little Ford

1813
01:15:53,560 --> 01:15:57,350
escape when we had our first, as soon
as we had our second, we realized this

1814
01:15:57,350 --> 01:16:00,360
was cute, but the stroller literally
takes up all the cargo space alone.

1815
01:16:00,770 --> 01:16:04,500
So we went Toyota Sienna
2005 Toyota Sienna.

1816
01:16:04,550 --> 01:16:07,420
We had that until 2000
and I want to say 17.

1817
01:16:09,075 --> 01:16:13,635
12 years, 225, 000 miles in that bad boy.

1818
01:16:14,015 --> 01:16:16,155
No, all it needed was
oil changes, you know?

1819
01:16:16,165 --> 01:16:16,585
Wow.

1820
01:16:16,585 --> 01:16:19,425
I mean, now that when I took
it to the dealer and they said,

1821
01:16:19,425 --> 01:16:20,675
we'll give you 500 bucks for it.

1822
01:16:20,675 --> 01:16:23,965
They basically said this thing has
a bright future hauling around, you

1823
01:16:23,965 --> 01:16:28,565
know, some kind of produce in Mexico
was sort of its final destination,

1824
01:16:28,565 --> 01:16:29,805
but it was going to be used.

1825
01:16:30,325 --> 01:16:31,625
You cannot beat utility.

1826
01:16:31,685 --> 01:16:35,775
I mean, it's, it, minivans are the
true, you know, utility vehicle.

1827
01:16:36,145 --> 01:16:40,185
Adam Fishman: Well, That is an
incredibly strong endorsement to end on.

1828
01:16:40,375 --> 01:16:40,645
Come on.

1829
01:16:40,665 --> 01:16:48,645
So Matt, thank you so much for coming on
Startup Dad, for talking to me about your

1830
01:16:48,645 --> 01:16:51,015
family and for telling some great stories.

1831
01:16:51,045 --> 01:16:52,345
I super appreciate it.

1832
01:16:52,345 --> 01:16:58,405
And I wish you the large family,
the large teenage family, all of

1833
01:16:58,405 --> 01:17:01,065
the best of luck in the world.

1834
01:17:01,065 --> 01:17:01,445
Adam.

1835
01:17:01,445 --> 01:17:02,965
Great to be here.

1836
01:17:02,965 --> 01:17:06,004
for listening to today's
conversation with Matt Wensing.

1837
01:17:06,905 --> 01:17:10,135
If you enjoyed the show, please
subscribe, share, and leave me

1838
01:17:10,135 --> 01:17:12,195
a review on Apple or Spotify.

1839
01:17:12,715 --> 01:17:14,765
It'll help other people find this podcast.

1840
01:17:15,305 --> 01:17:19,875
Startup Dad is a Fishman AF production
with editing support from Tommy Heron.

1841
01:17:20,655 --> 01:17:25,035
You can join a community of over 10,
000 subscribers and stay up to date

1842
01:17:25,035 --> 01:17:28,735
on my thoughts on growth, product,
and parenting by subscribing to

1843
01:17:28,735 --> 01:17:31,985
the Fishman AF newsletter at www.

1844
01:17:32,075 --> 01:17:32,235
fishmanafnewsletter.

1845
01:17:34,885 --> 01:17:34,915
com.

1846
01:17:36,605 --> 01:17:37,435
Thanks for listening.

1847
01:17:37,915 --> 01:17:38,685
See you next week.