Finding More Time vs. More Energy | Immad Akhund (father of 2, co-founder and CEO, Mercury)

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Immad Akhund: So it's very hard
to take advice and apply it.

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Like you have to be open to it, but
you're given all this responsibility of

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this, like infant, I think you can get
yourself like overly worked up about it.

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Try to like assemble all this advice and
like, you know, it's not that complicated.

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Just keep them alive and,
you know, be flexible.

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Adam Fishman: Welcome to Startup Dad,
the podcast where we dive deep into

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the lives of dads who are also leaders
in the world of startups and business.

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I'm your host, Adam Fishman.

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In today's conversation, I sat down
with serial entrepreneur, Imad Akhund.

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Imad is the founder and CEO of Mercury,
a business banking platform, and

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one that I'm a happy customer of.

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He has also founded two other
companies, ClickPass and Hayzap, the

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latter of which was acquired in 2016.

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He's a husband and the father of two kids.

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In our conversation today, we spoke about
he and his wife's decision to start a

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family at a young age, especially by San
Francisco standards and how he navigated

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founding and running several companies,
including Mercury with young children.

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We talked about the differences
between finding more time and finding

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more energy, how to think about skill
building when you're kids and how to

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deal with disagreements with a spouse.

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Our conversation was filled with
discussions about the parallels

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Between being a co founder of a
company and the co founder of a family.

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I hope you enjoy it.

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I would like to welcome Imad
Ahund to the Startup Dad podcast.

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Imad, it's a pleasure
to have you here today.

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Thanks for joining me.

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Immad Akhund: Thanks.

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I'm excited

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Adam Fishman: to be here.

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I wanted to just jump
right off and ask you.

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About where you grew up and
what life was like growing up.

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So tell me a little bit about
your childhood and your family.

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Immad Akhund: Yeah.

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So from the age of zero to nine,
I was in Pakistan and, you know,

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I have three older sisters, but we
all within five years of each other.

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So four sibling family and, you know, at
the age of nine, my parents decided, hey,

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there's more opportunities in the UK.

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My dad had actually studied and
worked in the UK for a long time.

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So he was already a passport holder.

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And so were we, so at the age of nine,
we decided to move and that was a big

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jarring move for me, just like, you know,
shifting my whole life and it's different

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language and all that kind of stuff.

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But yeah, eventually I
settled in, you know, grew up.

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In Northwest London.

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And then I was there, I guess,
until the age of 23, when I

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moved here for my second startup.

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Adam Fishman: All right.

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And here is the Bay area.

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You live in the greater San Francisco Bay.

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So awesome.

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Where does the rest of your
extended family live now?

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Are they in the UK?

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Are they all distributed
all over the place?

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Immad Akhund: So my immediate
kind of sisters, parents,

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they live in the UK still.

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And then on my mom's side, my
family's mostly still in Pakistan

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and my dad's side all over the world.

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All right.

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Adam Fishman: You are the founder and
CEO of Mercury, which I have happily

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been a customer of for many, many years.

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I think Probably around the time we
met, which was four, four or five

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years ago, but this is not your
first stint at founding a company.

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Is that right?

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Yeah.

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Immad Akhund: So I have been
doing startups continuously

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basically since 2006.

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So I only really had one job pre startups.

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So I've worked at Bloomberg for a
year and then I did one startup in

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London and another one in the U S and
those were relatively short startups.

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Runs.

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And then I did a startup from
end of 2008 to when we sold it in

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2016, which is called Hayes app.

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And then straight after that, there
was a one year period where I worked

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at the company that acquired us.

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But then I did take a little bit
of time off, had another baby

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and then started mercury in 2017.

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Adam Fishman: Wow.

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What is it about this idea of kind
of starting and building a company?

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Cause it's a grind and you've now, I
don't know if you have a pain threshold

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or a love of that or something, or
you're a masochist, but why keep

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Ghana going back, taking more bites

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Immad Akhund: out of the apple?

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I'm definitely a weird person.

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You know, I had this like really
distinct feeling when I first

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started my startup in 2006.

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And I think if I firstly describe my
feeling working at a company, like the

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contrast of the feeling is like kind of.

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The reason for it, you know, I
would work at Bloomberg and, you

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know, I'd go in as late as possible.

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I would leave as early as possible.

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We would play a lot of like
they had a foosball table.

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We would do that.

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And you know, they'd like hand me a
task and I wouldn't be able to, there

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was no mode to speak to the customer.

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I would find the tasks like
fairly easy and fairly boring.

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And.

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You know, I tried to knock
it out, but at the end of the

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day, I would do all of that.

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I would feel so tired.

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Yeah.

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It was weird feeling because I
was like, I'm not working hard or

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anything, but I was just like, had
no motivation at the end of the day.

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Yeah.

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Cause it's just like a very
draining environment for me.

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And you know, maybe I was doing it wrong
and all that kind of stuff, but it was

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just not like a fun thing at all for me.

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And then I started my first startup and
it was just like the complete opposite.

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It was like, I was the master
of my own failures, right?

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Like it was, everything was up to me.

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Yeah.

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I was working really hard.

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I was young, no commitments, anything.

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I was working like wake up at 9 a.

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m.

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or whatever and then work
through till midnight.

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And you know, my evening activities
will go to start up events.

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So that's just all I did.

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Maybe I'd spent like one day of
the weekend off, but it was very

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intense, but I felt like very
energized through that intensity.

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And I was like, wow, this
is like an amazing feeling.

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Like, and I felt like for the first
time I like knew my purpose and knew

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like what the point of life was.

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Like before then, like I had this
job because that's what you do.

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I'd studied computer science and
you know, I kind of like coding.

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I do like coding.

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But there wasn't like a
meaning or deep purpose to it.

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It was just like something I did
because like I needed to go to

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college and like, I just thought I
would be really good at this subject.

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And I was, but like, it
wasn't, there wasn't like a

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purpose really attached to it.

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And this just feeling of like
doing something and like having

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that idea and fun and all that
stuff, it was just so great.

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I was just like, Hey, if I can,
I would be so lucky to be able to

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do this for the rest of my life.

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Right.

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Like that was my feeling.

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It was nothing to do with money really.

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It's just like, Hey.

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If I can survive doing this, I literally
was like, yeah, will someone give me

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money so I can like just keep doing this?

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Like that was my take.

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It was very much not.

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Obviously, there's like illusions of like
hitting like it big and all of that stuff.

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I really just found it so fun.

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I was willing to just do
it as long as I could just

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Adam Fishman: pay my bills, right?

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Yeah, it sounds like you've been
a A builder for a long time.

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And that's kind of how you're wired.

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And for the last 12 years or so, you've
also been building a family, which

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is kind of what this show's about.

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So you have a partner, a
wife, and you have two kids.

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How'd you meet your partner?

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Immad Akhund: Yeah.

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So I actually met my partner about
three weeks before I left London.

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I met her in London and you
know, we had like, I don't know,

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maybe like three or four dates.

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And I was like, yeah, I was young and
I was like, yeah, you know, I'm just

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moving to the U S for maybe a year.

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We'll see how it goes.

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Right.

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Like I didn't move going like, Oh yes.

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Like this is where I'll
spend my life or anything.

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And initially because of visa issues
and things like that, I was back a lot.

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So even though it was long distance
and actually the funny thing with long

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distance, especially when you're an
early entrepreneur, long distance is

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great because you just have this like
focused time when you're away and you

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could just be focused on your startup.

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And then you have like,
Oh, a week or two off.

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And you spend a focus amount of time
with your girlfriend or whatever.

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And it wasn't as good for her because
she was a podiatrist in the UK.

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And she was like, where the hell are you?

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And eventually we got
married and got together.

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Adam Fishman: All right.

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And she moved to the United States.

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Yes, exactly.

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And now you have two kids.

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So tell me about your kids.

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How old are your

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Immad Akhund: kids?

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Yeah, I have two girls, a 12
year old and a six year old.

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One's in kindergarten.

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The other one is in sixth grade.

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And yeah, I live in San Francisco proper.

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So I recently moved to Calholla,
which is where they go to school.

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All

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Adam Fishman: right.

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And you became a parent
at a pretty young age.

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If you have a sixth grade daughter,
you do not strike me as a very old guy.

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You might even be a

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Immad Akhund: couple of
years younger than me.

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I was 27 when I became

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Adam Fishman: a parent.

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27.

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And that is not only is that pretty young,
it's pretty young by Bay area standards.

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A lot of people wait for a very long time.

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So what was that decision like?

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To get started, you were also building a
company when your first daughter was born

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and when your second daughter was born.

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So what was that thought

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Immad Akhund: process like?

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There's a few factors.

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I think this one, which, which might seem
a little silly is, you know, my wife moved

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here on a, uh, it's called O three visa.

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So I was one visa shadow through visa.

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And there's actually, this is
true for a lot of spouse visas.

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She wasn't allowed to work.

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So yeah.

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I think it's completely silly to like,
why would you want someone in the

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country that's not allowed to work?

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But anyway, it's a separate problem.

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So she wasn't allowed to work and she was
doing some projects and things like that.

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And she's an entrepreneur
too, in her own way.

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But it just, you know,
there was that factor.

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And I felt like the company
was doing a little well.

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We'd raised a 3 million
Series A, which wow.

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And it's hard to believe.

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I guess inflation slash other factors
meant that Series A's were like back then.

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This is like 2011.

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Yeah.

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So between the fact that she
wasn't allowed to work and I

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felt like financially okay, I
was like, Hey, we both want kids.

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I guess why wait was kind
of a factor at that point.

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Like I knew eventually I would get a green
card and she could work at that point, but

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that was still like several years away.

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Adam Fishman: And you mentioned that
your wife is a bit of an entrepreneur.

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So I take it that she is not a
podiatrist in the San Francisco Bay area.

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What does she do?

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Immad Akhund: When I first met
her, she was also doing kind

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of a business on the side.

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It was a dating website
and a few other things.

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And when she moved here, she wasn't
allowed to continue to be a producer.

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She would have to like retrain.

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I think it's like five years
or something ridiculous.

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So she wasn't interested in that.

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She's done a few things recently.

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She started a fashion design label,
but that's what she's working on.

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00:10:14,349 --> 00:10:18,580
Adam Fishman: You have started multiple
companies since becoming a father.

238
00:10:18,580 --> 00:10:21,830
You founded Mercury as close as
I can tell when your oldest was

239
00:10:21,830 --> 00:10:23,550
around five years old or so.

240
00:10:23,890 --> 00:10:25,330
And your youngest wasn't even born

241
00:10:25,330 --> 00:10:25,540
Immad Akhund: yet.

242
00:10:26,069 --> 00:10:28,470
I founded this in August, 2017.

243
00:10:28,490 --> 00:10:30,530
She was born in April, 2017.

244
00:10:30,650 --> 00:10:31,189
Adam Fishman: Okay.

245
00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:31,560
Okay.

246
00:10:31,560 --> 00:10:32,069
So close.

247
00:10:32,079 --> 00:10:33,400
So very, very close to it.

248
00:10:33,689 --> 00:10:36,930
So I already mentioned, you probably
have a very high tolerance for pain

249
00:10:36,959 --> 00:10:39,569
given your serial founding situation.

250
00:10:39,910 --> 00:10:44,160
But I think a lot of dads, especially
some folks who listen to this show, and

251
00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:45,850
I get a lot of questions about this.

252
00:10:46,290 --> 00:10:51,160
People would look at that and say, why,
how can you build a company and have a

253
00:10:51,790 --> 00:10:54,200
for example, or have multiple kids under.

254
00:10:54,510 --> 00:10:55,350
A certain age.

255
00:10:55,370 --> 00:10:59,590
And so I'm going to ask you the
exact same question, which is why

256
00:10:59,590 --> 00:11:01,300
did it feel like the right time?

257
00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,760
And then how did you make it work
when you're starting a company

258
00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:06,460
and you have a four month old?

259
00:11:06,810 --> 00:11:07,989
That's kind of a lot.

260
00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:10,990
And I know you mentioned that
your wife was able to stay

261
00:11:10,990 --> 00:11:12,329
home because she couldn't work.

262
00:11:12,699 --> 00:11:14,760
But still you don't get a lot of sleep.

263
00:11:15,020 --> 00:11:16,889
Anyone in the household
doesn't get a lot of sleep.

264
00:11:16,889 --> 00:11:18,569
So, so I'm curious about that.

265
00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:18,750
There's

266
00:11:18,750 --> 00:11:19,489
Immad Akhund: a few factors here.

267
00:11:19,849 --> 00:11:23,810
Number one, you know, I decided I
was going to do startups forever.

268
00:11:24,149 --> 00:11:27,889
So I don't think you can just
be like life doesn't go on.

269
00:11:27,889 --> 00:11:28,149
Right.

270
00:11:28,149 --> 00:11:29,919
Like, I'm like not a fan of people.

271
00:11:29,930 --> 00:11:32,289
Like sometimes I talk to people that
like, Hey, I'm not dating anyone

272
00:11:32,290 --> 00:11:35,159
because like, I'm doing a startup
and I'm like, I'm not doing exercise.

273
00:11:35,159 --> 00:11:38,169
I'm like, yeah, that's just
like startups are long process.

274
00:11:38,459 --> 00:11:38,689
Right.

275
00:11:38,689 --> 00:11:41,359
Like No one will tell you it's
not going to take 10 years,

276
00:11:41,399 --> 00:11:42,839
even for a successful startup.

277
00:11:42,839 --> 00:11:44,849
So you can't just pause life.

278
00:11:44,890 --> 00:11:48,599
And I've never been, I mean, maybe I
actually, when I first started doing

279
00:11:48,599 --> 00:11:51,540
startups in 2006, I was maybe like,
Hey, I'm going to pull like, this

280
00:11:51,550 --> 00:11:53,469
is like, I'm all all in, et cetera.

281
00:11:53,859 --> 00:11:56,559
But a few years in, I was like,
okay, you know, life has to continue.

282
00:11:56,719 --> 00:12:01,569
And one of the things that taught me that
was actually my initial set was like, very

283
00:12:01,569 --> 00:12:03,300
like, why accommodate a startups, right?

284
00:12:03,310 --> 00:12:05,420
Like it's like early stage people.

285
00:12:05,420 --> 00:12:05,650
And.

286
00:12:06,305 --> 00:12:09,655
Back then, especially my
first startup was 2007.

287
00:12:09,695 --> 00:12:12,395
Yeah, these were very young,
straight out of college people.

288
00:12:12,395 --> 00:12:15,405
And there was this mindset that
like everything that's not startups

289
00:12:15,405 --> 00:12:16,825
is like a distraction, right?

290
00:12:16,835 --> 00:12:19,964
Like, but then I, my fund company.

291
00:12:20,795 --> 00:12:24,955
Was seed funded by Union Square
Ventures and then New York based VC

292
00:12:24,965 --> 00:12:29,325
and I guess every VC is like this, but
yeah, I went to a bunch of the events

293
00:12:29,325 --> 00:12:31,325
of the founders are a little older.

294
00:12:31,354 --> 00:12:34,235
They tended to have kids often,
especially the successful ones.

295
00:12:34,235 --> 00:12:37,184
And I could be like, Hey, you know,
one of the good things about this

296
00:12:37,185 --> 00:12:39,984
podcast is we're creating role models
for other entrepreneurs, but it was

297
00:12:39,984 --> 00:12:41,785
nice to see that role model, right?

298
00:12:41,785 --> 00:12:45,935
Like it was a different shape of a startup
entrepreneur that was still That's cool.

299
00:12:45,935 --> 00:12:45,944
guys.

300
00:12:46,245 --> 00:12:49,325
Doing very successful startups right
like the average union square ventures

301
00:12:49,325 --> 00:12:53,945
company is more successful than the
tiny yc companies and they were doing

302
00:12:53,945 --> 00:12:58,154
with kids and you know there was lots of
kind of open conversation about how to

303
00:12:58,155 --> 00:13:02,764
do that so that was one factor i think
the second thing for me was once you.

304
00:13:03,055 --> 00:13:06,845
Have a company and it's a little
more established, let's say you

305
00:13:06,845 --> 00:13:09,575
have 10 employees and you've done
around and all that kind of stuff.

306
00:13:09,945 --> 00:13:12,524
I mean, some companies manager,
but like, I've never been off

307
00:13:12,554 --> 00:13:15,285
the type of person to say like,
Hey, you're working at a startup.

308
00:13:15,285 --> 00:13:18,485
You're going to be working until
like, you know, 9pm and you're

309
00:13:18,485 --> 00:13:19,975
going to be working weekends.

310
00:13:19,975 --> 00:13:24,305
I'm like, my take has always been to
at least employees that like, Hey,

311
00:13:24,775 --> 00:13:26,635
do your best work while you're there.

312
00:13:26,755 --> 00:13:28,085
And you know, I don't think.

313
00:13:28,430 --> 00:13:31,880
An incremental one hour of work into
the evening is like that healthy and

314
00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:33,420
it's going to get you that much further.

315
00:13:33,689 --> 00:13:36,329
And frankly, most people
just don't do that anyway.

316
00:13:36,329 --> 00:13:40,870
So like, you'd have to be like, really
like pushing that kind of narrative.

317
00:13:40,939 --> 00:13:44,089
But anyway, when I looked at it, I was
like, okay, you know, they're working

318
00:13:44,089 --> 00:13:45,899
five days a week, 10 hours a day.

319
00:13:46,019 --> 00:13:47,124
Is me working?

320
00:13:47,595 --> 00:13:50,295
Five days a week eleven hours a day
really gonna make that much of a

321
00:13:50,295 --> 00:13:53,175
difference to the company right like
i'm only ten percent of the company

322
00:13:53,175 --> 00:13:57,445
if i'm working ten percent more that's
only one percent extra work hours.

323
00:13:57,965 --> 00:14:01,304
But on top of that like i don't
think my eleventh hour of the day

324
00:14:01,304 --> 00:14:05,144
is as productive right like i think
productivity falls quite a lot so.

325
00:14:05,435 --> 00:14:09,095
At some point i was just like okay yeah it
doesn't make sense for me to be destroying

326
00:14:09,105 --> 00:14:13,365
the rest of my life in order to get like
this incremental what does that work yeah.

327
00:14:13,775 --> 00:14:16,835
And it's not the best work
anyway and i think over time.

328
00:14:17,250 --> 00:14:18,950
So I didn't have a kid until 2011.

329
00:14:19,010 --> 00:14:21,900
By that time, I've already been
doing startups for five years, right?

330
00:14:21,900 --> 00:14:25,789
So like all the time, it was obvious
to me, like, you know, my early days

331
00:14:25,790 --> 00:14:27,100
where I was working till midnight.

332
00:14:27,510 --> 00:14:28,970
Like I was messing around, right?

333
00:14:28,980 --> 00:14:31,249
Like I was procrastinating on Hacker News.

334
00:14:31,300 --> 00:14:33,739
There was a lot of that time
where I was pretending to work.

335
00:14:33,819 --> 00:14:36,910
And like, I was serious about working,
but that's just like, it was limited

336
00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:38,190
how much work you could do for.

337
00:14:38,670 --> 00:14:38,920
Right.

338
00:14:38,930 --> 00:14:40,839
13 hours a day or 14 hours a day.

339
00:14:41,439 --> 00:14:43,780
Whereas like later on, I think you
could become like a little more

340
00:14:43,780 --> 00:14:46,290
self introspective and go actually
like, this is my productive time.

341
00:14:46,290 --> 00:14:48,569
And this is how much time I was
just kind of messing around.

342
00:14:49,050 --> 00:14:50,860
So I think those two were
like big factors for me.

343
00:14:50,860 --> 00:14:54,360
I think the second thing which I would
like push back on a little bit is like,

344
00:14:54,369 --> 00:14:58,600
sometimes people look at like time as
like a resource it's like, Oh, I only

345
00:14:58,630 --> 00:15:02,220
have so much time in the day and all
that stuff, but actually like the thing

346
00:15:02,220 --> 00:15:03,910
that's more of a resource is energy.

347
00:15:04,110 --> 00:15:06,989
And, you know, if you're doing
something that energizes you, you're

348
00:15:07,260 --> 00:15:08,830
You're willing to give it time, right?

349
00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,590
Generally speaking, you can do
the things that give you energy

350
00:15:11,590 --> 00:15:12,720
and you can do more of them.

351
00:15:12,890 --> 00:15:15,839
Whereas like things that are draining
and there's lots of things in the

352
00:15:15,839 --> 00:15:18,880
startup world or the baby rearing
world that are very draining,

353
00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:20,259
those things take away time.

354
00:15:20,270 --> 00:15:24,739
But yeah, overall, I would say like there
was definitely heartbeats, especially

355
00:15:24,739 --> 00:15:26,290
the first three months of having a baby.

356
00:15:26,290 --> 00:15:30,580
But overall, I would say I always
came out with net energy from my kids.

357
00:15:30,650 --> 00:15:33,790
I'm not saying I would like net more
sleep or something like that, but I, you

358
00:15:33,790 --> 00:15:35,260
know, it's fun interacting with kids.

359
00:15:35,260 --> 00:15:37,220
I think that's such a joy to be around.

360
00:15:37,375 --> 00:15:41,855
Kids and like see them grow and
or even take them places, right?

361
00:15:41,855 --> 00:15:45,785
Like I, I like to be involved in my
kids' like extracurricular activities

362
00:15:45,785 --> 00:15:49,635
and like, you know, I took my 6-year-old
swimming on Sunday and it's just nice.

363
00:15:49,635 --> 00:15:50,775
Like she has so much fun.

364
00:15:51,354 --> 00:15:54,984
And yeah, I feel like that kind
of purpose and meaning is like,

365
00:15:55,045 --> 00:15:58,435
yes, I get that from the startup,
but I also get it from my kids and

366
00:15:58,435 --> 00:16:00,204
like, I think that grows your time.

367
00:16:00,744 --> 00:16:00,805
Yeah.

368
00:16:00,805 --> 00:16:02,875
Which is like a hard concept, but Yeah.

369
00:16:02,935 --> 00:16:04,915
And you know, all these
things that people are like.

370
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,870
Yeah, but sometimes people complain
about like sleep or changing diapers or

371
00:16:08,870 --> 00:16:12,240
whatever and I'm like, you know, that's
just not that big a factor, right?

372
00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:16,600
It's like It's annoying at the
time, but it passes and it's

373
00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:17,950
not a defining characteristic.

374
00:16:17,950 --> 00:16:22,170
No one's like, my parents aren't saying
like, Oh my God, like Imad, your sleep

375
00:16:22,309 --> 00:16:24,460
at the age of two months was so annoying.

376
00:16:24,469 --> 00:16:25,409
Like they don't care.

377
00:16:25,420 --> 00:16:28,400
Like that's just not a defining
factor for like having kids.

378
00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:30,860
It's just like a very
small kind of aspect of

379
00:16:30,860 --> 00:16:31,074
Adam Fishman: it.

380
00:16:31,435 --> 00:16:33,985
Yeah, it's sort of like
building a company in a way.

381
00:16:33,985 --> 00:16:37,925
And that if you think about it in
the long term, right, like any moment

382
00:16:37,925 --> 00:16:41,125
that you're in in your company or
any moment that you're in with your

383
00:16:41,125 --> 00:16:43,435
kids is kind of a fleeting moment.

384
00:16:43,444 --> 00:16:44,574
Like it's going to change.

385
00:16:44,574 --> 00:16:45,555
Your company is going to change.

386
00:16:45,675 --> 00:16:46,665
Your kids are going to change.

387
00:16:46,675 --> 00:16:49,890
So if you're like, Not sleeping
and not, you know, and changing a

388
00:16:49,890 --> 00:16:51,110
million diapers and stuff like that.

389
00:16:51,110 --> 00:16:54,240
Now, it's not going to be
that way five years from now.

390
00:16:54,460 --> 00:16:55,770
Well, for most people, right?

391
00:16:55,850 --> 00:16:56,980
So I think that's a really good point.

392
00:16:56,980 --> 00:16:59,820
And I also really liked the point
that you made there about, it's less

393
00:16:59,820 --> 00:17:01,710
about time and more about energy.

394
00:17:02,170 --> 00:17:06,670
You can do a lot and you can sustain
yourself for a long period of time.

395
00:17:06,690 --> 00:17:11,419
If you have energy from your family, if
you have energy from your company, it kind

396
00:17:11,419 --> 00:17:13,159
of makes it worth it to keep grinding.

397
00:17:13,209 --> 00:17:16,919
So what's the earliest memory
that you have of becoming a dad?

398
00:17:17,310 --> 00:17:21,520
Immad Akhund: One of the weirdest things
is like, you know, it's like day two.

399
00:17:21,844 --> 00:17:26,145
And you're ejected out of the hospital,
you walk home and there's nothing there.

400
00:17:26,145 --> 00:17:30,084
Like, here's a baby and
you're like, what the hell?

401
00:17:31,495 --> 00:17:33,814
I remember that being
such a distinct memory.

402
00:17:33,864 --> 00:17:35,994
They're going like, well,
like what am I supposed to do?

403
00:17:37,324 --> 00:17:41,305
You know, um, yeah, I mean, you
figure it out, but it's so jarring

404
00:17:41,305 --> 00:17:44,955
because like, you know, a lot of
life, there's like a process, right?

405
00:17:44,955 --> 00:17:47,045
It's like his school, even startup, right?

406
00:17:47,055 --> 00:17:48,144
Like I did Y Combinator.

407
00:17:48,144 --> 00:17:50,575
It's like, here's a program
is three months long.

408
00:17:50,575 --> 00:17:50,815
Yeah.

409
00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:54,320
And now you're like in charge
of this like life that you have

410
00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:56,550
to like, make sure you support.

411
00:17:56,850 --> 00:18:01,230
And I was, you know, I'm an, I'm
a bit of an overachiever at times.

412
00:18:01,250 --> 00:18:04,289
So I'd read all these books
and like, you know, we'd done

413
00:18:04,290 --> 00:18:06,020
this course and all this stuff.

414
00:18:06,030 --> 00:18:08,770
And I was like, you know,
it's almost useless compared

415
00:18:08,770 --> 00:18:09,790
to like actually doing it.

416
00:18:09,790 --> 00:18:10,080
Right.

417
00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,179
Like, it's like, Okay, and like
half the stuff you find on the

418
00:18:13,179 --> 00:18:15,019
internet is contradictory, right?

419
00:18:15,019 --> 00:18:17,209
Like, there's like, should
you sleep during them or not?

420
00:18:17,219 --> 00:18:18,899
Or, you know, all this stuff.

421
00:18:18,899 --> 00:18:21,979
I mean, by the time I had my second
child, I knew what I was doing.

422
00:18:21,979 --> 00:18:24,679
But the first child I remember
was like, pretty crazy.

423
00:18:25,729 --> 00:18:28,840
And like, we live far away
from our parents as well.

424
00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:31,989
So that made it like probably
extra hard in its own way.

425
00:18:32,070 --> 00:18:33,830
I remember that was a
very distinct memory.

426
00:18:33,830 --> 00:18:35,129
I don't think it was the earliest memory.

427
00:18:35,129 --> 00:18:38,310
The earliest was just like, Yeah,
I was there when the birth was

428
00:18:38,310 --> 00:18:42,670
happening, but I also have like a
pretty, pretty strong memory of like

429
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,950
every step of that way, but thankfully
we didn't have any complications

430
00:18:46,049 --> 00:18:46,430
Adam Fishman: or anything.

431
00:18:46,549 --> 00:18:49,730
Not a lot of people have mentioned
that memory, this idea of like,

432
00:18:50,130 --> 00:18:53,370
They just kind of give you the
baby and they're like, good luck.

433
00:18:53,650 --> 00:18:54,320
You're out.

434
00:18:54,630 --> 00:18:55,080
Yeah.

435
00:18:55,110 --> 00:18:58,919
I had someone on the podcast who was like,
the only thing you need to do to be able

436
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,889
to take your kid home from the hospital
is show them that you have a car seat.

437
00:19:03,349 --> 00:19:03,880
That's it.

438
00:19:04,460 --> 00:19:05,260
Immad Akhund: That's it.

439
00:19:05,389 --> 00:19:07,139
And we didn't even have a car seat.

440
00:19:07,310 --> 00:19:07,710
Right.

441
00:19:09,850 --> 00:19:14,250
Yeah, we had to go get it because our
first child was three weeks early.

442
00:19:14,250 --> 00:19:16,140
So I didn't want the car seat yet.

443
00:19:16,620 --> 00:19:18,440
Adam Fishman: One of the
things that happens when you.

444
00:19:18,740 --> 00:19:24,350
Become a parent is you get a
lot of advice about what to do.

445
00:19:24,620 --> 00:19:26,950
And you mentioned you read a lot
of books, you're looking on the

446
00:19:26,950 --> 00:19:28,150
internet and stuff like that.

447
00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:32,519
When you think about the younger
version of a mod, what is like the

448
00:19:32,519 --> 00:19:35,599
one piece of advice that if you
could go back in time, that you would

449
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,990
tell yourself, this is something
you really should pay attention to.

450
00:19:39,270 --> 00:19:42,560
And then the opposite side, what's
something that you would say.

451
00:19:43,635 --> 00:19:44,785
100 percent ignore.

452
00:19:45,014 --> 00:19:46,665
Do not pay attention to this piece

453
00:19:46,665 --> 00:19:47,304
Immad Akhund: of advice.

454
00:19:47,415 --> 00:19:49,554
So it's very hard to
take advice and apply it.

455
00:19:49,574 --> 00:19:51,024
Like, you have to be open to it.

456
00:19:51,054 --> 00:19:54,324
But you're given all this
responsibility of this, like, infant.

457
00:19:54,745 --> 00:19:57,955
I think you can get yourself,
like, overly worked up about it.

458
00:19:58,475 --> 00:20:01,614
Try to, like, assemble all this
advice and, like, you know,

459
00:20:01,854 --> 00:20:03,084
It's not that complicated.

460
00:20:03,185 --> 00:20:06,915
Just keep them alive and,
you know, be flexible.

461
00:20:06,945 --> 00:20:08,935
And I think that actually
takes you a long way.

462
00:20:09,419 --> 00:20:12,639
I think, I guess the other thing
that's related to that is like, you

463
00:20:12,639 --> 00:20:15,710
kind of have to like understand,
like, you know, what you're going to

464
00:20:15,710 --> 00:20:20,320
do, what your partner is going to do,
and have like really strong lines of

465
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,330
communication that are like always open.

466
00:20:23,070 --> 00:20:25,120
Be able to understand
each other's needs, right?

467
00:20:25,149 --> 00:20:29,080
Like one thing that quickly happened is
like, I'm always a morning person and

468
00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:30,700
she's always been a nighttime person.

469
00:20:30,700 --> 00:20:33,239
So like she would go until 4 a.

470
00:20:33,239 --> 00:20:33,409
m.

471
00:20:33,409 --> 00:20:34,379
And I would wake up at 4 a.

472
00:20:34,379 --> 00:20:34,540
m.

473
00:20:34,540 --> 00:20:35,179
and do the rest.

474
00:20:35,179 --> 00:20:38,580
And like, we will find a rhythm, but
like, yeah, those types of things,

475
00:20:38,590 --> 00:20:41,509
like understanding what each person's
needs are and things like that and

476
00:20:41,519 --> 00:20:43,179
adapting to that are really important.

477
00:20:43,260 --> 00:20:46,409
I think this advice is probably
for like slightly later, like when

478
00:20:46,409 --> 00:20:52,880
they're not babies, but, you know,
I had this impression as, uh, I

479
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:53,860
had this impression that like.

480
00:20:54,394 --> 00:20:56,294
This is what I'm going
to be like with my kids.

481
00:20:56,384 --> 00:20:58,424
I was like, I'm going to do these things.

482
00:20:58,444 --> 00:20:59,514
I'm not going to swear.

483
00:20:59,604 --> 00:21:03,495
I'm going to be like this, like
role model of X, Y, Z, et cetera.

484
00:21:03,834 --> 00:21:06,285
But then, you know, when I had kids,
I realized like, I'm just going

485
00:21:06,285 --> 00:21:08,234
to spend all my time with them.

486
00:21:08,235 --> 00:21:08,485
Right.

487
00:21:08,495 --> 00:21:11,685
Like, it's not like you spend half an hour
with them a day, you're spending like.

488
00:21:11,970 --> 00:21:12,900
All the time with them.

489
00:21:12,900 --> 00:21:17,220
So like in order to do anything with them
and to be a role model of some time, like

490
00:21:17,220 --> 00:21:20,420
you basically have to change yourself
to be that, like, it can't just be like

491
00:21:20,420 --> 00:21:21,930
something you project for your children.

492
00:21:21,950 --> 00:21:27,030
Like if you want to be like a hardworking
person and have them aspire to that,

493
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,710
like you have to be a hardworking
person or if you want to be fit and

494
00:21:29,710 --> 00:21:32,750
like, yeah, like all of these things,
you just have to change yourself to be.

495
00:21:33,070 --> 00:21:34,920
And I actually think like, in
some ways it makes you a better

496
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:35,990
person because you're like.

497
00:21:36,565 --> 00:21:38,355
You know, you look at your kids
and you're like this, you know,

498
00:21:38,745 --> 00:21:42,095
if I want them to aspire to, to
do something, I have to then do it

499
00:21:42,105 --> 00:21:43,945
myself and yeah, you have to kind of.

500
00:21:44,295 --> 00:21:48,205
I actually live that so that is like
an interesting aspect that no one

501
00:21:48,205 --> 00:21:50,545
had like kind of told me before.

502
00:21:50,645 --> 00:21:56,845
Uh, yeah, I think the other thing
that I try to do is I do think the

503
00:21:56,845 --> 00:22:00,435
most important thing you can do,
I mean, beyond like basic needs or

504
00:22:00,435 --> 00:22:02,335
whatever is to give your kids love.

505
00:22:02,395 --> 00:22:06,365
I think like make them feel secure
and I mean, it's good for you as well.

506
00:22:06,365 --> 00:22:10,045
Like, I think it's fun to have a loving
environment, but I think everything

507
00:22:10,045 --> 00:22:11,625
else is like kind of secondary.

508
00:22:12,465 --> 00:22:15,495
People should probably like focus a
little bit more on like giving the kids

509
00:22:15,495 --> 00:22:18,105
like a happy healthy kind of environment

510
00:22:18,205 --> 00:22:21,745
Adam Fishman: that point just before
this one where you said, you know, if

511
00:22:21,745 --> 00:22:25,995
you want to be if you want to model
or if you want to sort of project a

512
00:22:25,995 --> 00:22:31,085
certain thing for your kids, you have to
actually change and evolve to be that way.

513
00:22:31,085 --> 00:22:32,655
You can't really like put on a show.

514
00:22:32,985 --> 00:22:34,584
Right, because you're
with them all the time.

515
00:22:34,895 --> 00:22:40,425
What's something for you that you really
kind of worked on after having kids

516
00:22:40,425 --> 00:22:44,915
that became really important for you in
order to you know, demonstrate something

517
00:22:45,125 --> 00:22:45,525
Immad Akhund: to them?

518
00:22:46,435 --> 00:22:49,715
I don't know if I just did
it for them beyond like you

519
00:22:49,715 --> 00:22:53,155
know, I'm also like someone who
wants to learn and grow myself.

520
00:22:53,155 --> 00:22:57,114
So yeah, I've been trying to like
go through a fitness kick recently

521
00:22:57,165 --> 00:23:00,814
and I think it is important for the
kids to see both me and my wife.

522
00:23:01,070 --> 00:23:03,340
Being fit and doing exercise
and all these things.

523
00:23:03,410 --> 00:23:04,980
So that's one thing.

524
00:23:05,050 --> 00:23:06,790
Reading is very important to me.

525
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:11,570
But I would say I've got a lot more
into reading in the last like six years.

526
00:23:11,570 --> 00:23:14,380
And I guess part of it is probably
modeling it for the kids and like

527
00:23:14,380 --> 00:23:15,730
saying, Hey, you should be reading more.

528
00:23:15,730 --> 00:23:17,239
And now I'm reading more as well.

529
00:23:17,290 --> 00:23:18,210
So it's that kind of thing.

530
00:23:18,589 --> 00:23:18,969
Yeah.

531
00:23:19,249 --> 00:23:22,260
Adam Fishman: My son still really
loves to have me read to him.

532
00:23:22,290 --> 00:23:23,100
He's nine.

533
00:23:23,190 --> 00:23:24,630
So kind of in between your kids.

534
00:23:24,820 --> 00:23:26,870
But one of the things that we've
started doing is like, I'll

535
00:23:26,870 --> 00:23:28,320
read him a chapter from a book.

536
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:28,870
Oh yeah, that's great.

537
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:30,059
And then he'll read.

538
00:23:31,284 --> 00:23:35,564
And I'll get my own book and just sit in
his room and we'll read kind of together.

539
00:23:35,564 --> 00:23:38,074
So we're like trying to model
that behavior, which I've

540
00:23:38,094 --> 00:23:39,514
actually found really enjoyable.

541
00:23:39,674 --> 00:23:43,534
It also helps me read more because
a lot of times after he goes to

542
00:23:43,534 --> 00:23:44,904
sleep, I'm not in the mood to read.

543
00:23:44,904 --> 00:23:46,414
I'm ready to go to sleep myself.

544
00:23:46,424 --> 00:23:49,584
So now I get some chapters in
while he's doing his stuff.

545
00:23:49,594 --> 00:23:50,974
So I love that.

546
00:23:51,524 --> 00:23:56,409
I wanted to ask too, because you know,
I want to talk with you about skill

547
00:23:56,409 --> 00:23:59,379
building, because that was the thing
that you brought up in our prep for this.

548
00:23:59,389 --> 00:24:01,090
And I'm curious about a couple of things.

549
00:24:01,090 --> 00:24:05,149
One is, you know, you're a serial
entrepreneur and the most recent company,

550
00:24:05,149 --> 00:24:07,710
Mercury is a banking and FinTech company.

551
00:24:08,139 --> 00:24:12,479
Have you taught your kids much in
the way about finance or do you talk

552
00:24:12,479 --> 00:24:16,079
to your kids about what you do and
what are those conversations like?

553
00:24:16,774 --> 00:24:20,725
Immad Akhund: Yeah, obviously depends on
which age and with my older kid, like I

554
00:24:20,735 --> 00:24:24,635
set up like a stock portfolio for her and
I was like, Hey, which things do you like?

555
00:24:24,635 --> 00:24:27,855
And she's like, I like Spotify
and Disney and that kind of thing.

556
00:24:27,855 --> 00:24:30,105
And I bought some and then
like every now and then we

557
00:24:30,105 --> 00:24:31,685
check it and like, that's cool.

558
00:24:31,694 --> 00:24:32,784
We see how that's doing.

559
00:24:32,784 --> 00:24:33,894
So I think that's been nice.

560
00:24:33,945 --> 00:24:34,504
And.

561
00:24:34,860 --> 00:24:39,370
Yeah, we've always historically had
like pocket money and then she's,

562
00:24:39,379 --> 00:24:43,719
you know, track that and she has to
pay for certain things more recently.

563
00:24:43,719 --> 00:24:47,069
I've like remove pocket money and now
she has to babysit or do other chores to

564
00:24:47,070 --> 00:24:48,669
make money now that she's a little older.

565
00:24:48,669 --> 00:24:51,830
So I think those kind of in
terms of financial stuff like.

566
00:24:52,915 --> 00:24:55,675
I can talk about it all day, but like
doing these kind of practical things

567
00:24:55,675 --> 00:24:59,784
is like a good way to get her, you
know, I have spent many times trying

568
00:24:59,784 --> 00:25:02,875
to explain that compound interest to
her and I think she kind of gets it,

569
00:25:02,875 --> 00:25:04,004
but I don't think she really gets it.

570
00:25:04,395 --> 00:25:07,774
But I'm sure like when she sees
money growing and not growing, like

571
00:25:07,774 --> 00:25:09,044
she'll get more of a sense of it.

572
00:25:09,465 --> 00:25:13,564
And I try to make it so like, you
know, we walk to school, not every day,

573
00:25:13,564 --> 00:25:15,594
but it's like a 15 ish minute walk.

574
00:25:15,925 --> 00:25:19,875
So I try to like talk about something
interesting and new a lot of the times

575
00:25:19,875 --> 00:25:21,385
when we're walking either, you know.

576
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:26,860
Something that they bring up or current
affairs, or I'm just like, Hey, you know,

577
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:31,980
like, like recently we talked about like
the neural link chess playing thing that

578
00:25:32,079 --> 00:25:35,739
was announced and I showed them the video
and, you know, I think like those kind

579
00:25:35,739 --> 00:25:40,290
of things, like a lot of teaching from
my perspective is like talking about

580
00:25:40,290 --> 00:25:41,970
different interesting things and like.

581
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,400
You know, showing them how I think
about it so that they can see that,

582
00:25:45,430 --> 00:25:48,570
but doing that like on a relatively
sustained basis for like years and

583
00:25:48,570 --> 00:25:49,960
years kind of builds up knowledge.

584
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,710
That's how I've been
kind of working at it.

585
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,850
Adam Fishman: And I think I saw pretty
recently that you were thinking about

586
00:25:56,850 --> 00:26:00,350
teaching one of your kids how to code
or teaching one of your kids how to

587
00:26:00,360 --> 00:26:02,560
build a website or something like that.

588
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:03,930
So how's that project been going?

589
00:26:04,530 --> 00:26:07,879
Immad Akhund: Yeah, my older
daughter has been doing the service.

590
00:26:07,889 --> 00:26:10,129
It's called Juni Learning or
something, which I recommend.

591
00:26:10,179 --> 00:26:14,610
Actually, they teach them scratch and
then they So she's been doing that

592
00:26:14,610 --> 00:26:18,390
for a few years and now we've been
doing like various projects together.

593
00:26:18,390 --> 00:26:22,300
So she has a Apple watch and we did
like a watch app that like says a joke

594
00:26:22,300 --> 00:26:23,900
when you click on it, it changes it.

595
00:26:24,060 --> 00:26:27,189
So more recently she was like,
Oh, I want to make like a web app.

596
00:26:27,189 --> 00:26:29,319
And like, she just kind of
wants to make like silly apps.

597
00:26:29,319 --> 00:26:32,660
So I tweeted about it to see like
what people thought I should make.

598
00:26:32,784 --> 00:26:33,385
Make it in.

599
00:26:33,405 --> 00:26:34,185
I know react.

600
00:26:34,185 --> 00:26:37,475
So I'm kind of tempted to just teach
a react, but it is now that I think

601
00:26:37,475 --> 00:26:40,385
about trying to teach her that it seems
like quite a complicated platform.

602
00:26:40,575 --> 00:26:44,965
So, so I thought I'd ask about it,
but yeah, it's nice to like, have some

603
00:26:44,965 --> 00:26:46,354
projects that we work on together.

604
00:26:46,544 --> 00:26:47,254
Adam Fishman: That's awesome.

605
00:26:47,664 --> 00:26:50,725
And anything that you're working on
with your younger daughter or kind

606
00:26:50,725 --> 00:26:53,684
of skills that you're trying to
build with her and just so everybody

607
00:26:53,684 --> 00:26:55,274
remembers she's six years old, right?

608
00:26:55,425 --> 00:26:55,735
Immad Akhund: Yeah.

609
00:26:56,265 --> 00:26:58,519
I mean, practically speaking, you
know, anything on a, you know,

610
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:00,110
Computer or things like that.

611
00:27:00,110 --> 00:27:02,230
She's just like a little
young for like sure.

612
00:27:02,370 --> 00:27:04,659
She can't even read it, but
she's really into sports.

613
00:27:04,669 --> 00:27:09,190
So swimming soccer and basketball
she's been doing and some gymnastics

614
00:27:09,269 --> 00:27:13,949
and then be we just Like I have like
literally right outside on this corridor.

615
00:27:13,959 --> 00:27:18,969
There's like six balls I try to wake
us up There's always like balls around

616
00:27:18,969 --> 00:27:21,830
so we could just like kick a ball back
and forth and things like that And she

617
00:27:21,830 --> 00:27:25,405
can also kind of do that for herself
But yeah, it's mostly been around

618
00:27:25,405 --> 00:27:29,274
that and just like talking to her,
you know, my wife is working on her on

619
00:27:29,285 --> 00:27:33,075
like reading and things like that, but
I haven't been doing it too actively.

620
00:27:33,885 --> 00:27:38,155
Adam Fishman: So your kids are six
years apart, which is a pretty good

621
00:27:38,155 --> 00:27:41,425
spread of age, of age, at least in
the United States, you can usually

622
00:27:41,425 --> 00:27:44,254
get a lot of people like two and
a half or three years spaced out.

623
00:27:44,654 --> 00:27:46,984
Has your parenting style.

624
00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:51,610
Evolved in between your oldest
daughter and your youngest daughter.

625
00:27:51,629 --> 00:27:53,719
You kind of mentioned this a little bit.

626
00:27:54,100 --> 00:27:54,239
I

627
00:27:54,249 --> 00:27:57,039
Immad Akhund: think the biggest
change between the older one and

628
00:27:57,039 --> 00:28:00,719
the younger one is like how I
behaved in the first two years.

629
00:28:00,750 --> 00:28:07,459
I think in the first two years, there's
a lot more like, you know, rest, I guess.

630
00:28:07,499 --> 00:28:10,210
Oh, you can get very
stressed about having a kid.

631
00:28:10,210 --> 00:28:10,760
Like, it's like.

632
00:28:11,514 --> 00:28:15,335
Yeah, there's, you end up going to
the hospital for every little thing.

633
00:28:15,335 --> 00:28:18,554
There's sleep, there's like a
lot of transitions that happened

634
00:28:18,554 --> 00:28:20,985
in the first two years and potty
training and all that stuff.

635
00:28:20,985 --> 00:28:25,274
So I just feel like with the first one, I
was just like, yeah, every step was like

636
00:28:25,304 --> 00:28:29,784
new and it was changing and I felt like
it was always hard to keep up with it.

637
00:28:30,215 --> 00:28:33,785
I just remember being like very worked
up about every step and like trying to

638
00:28:33,795 --> 00:28:38,185
be like useful and on top of it and like
learn about it and do all this stuff.

639
00:28:38,685 --> 00:28:40,495
With the second one, it was just like.

640
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,970
I feel like the first two years just
kind of whizzed by, I was like, Oh,

641
00:28:43,970 --> 00:28:45,790
wow, she's two now, that's crazy.

642
00:28:46,230 --> 00:28:50,170
And I mean, obviously, like,
different children, both had unique

643
00:28:50,170 --> 00:28:53,570
challenges, but I just felt like
a lot less stressed and worked up

644
00:28:53,570 --> 00:28:55,140
about it for the first two years.

645
00:28:55,509 --> 00:28:57,659
After that, like, what has changed?

646
00:28:57,750 --> 00:28:58,759
That's a good question.

647
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:05,239
I mean, I feel like, I don't know, okay,
both kids are so different and like,

648
00:29:05,239 --> 00:29:08,299
this was one of the surprising things
about having kids is like, you know,

649
00:29:08,299 --> 00:29:10,929
you get a lot built in the personality.

650
00:29:11,399 --> 00:29:11,739
Yeah.

651
00:29:11,749 --> 00:29:15,229
My first kid never got into sports
and I was a very sporty child.

652
00:29:15,229 --> 00:29:19,115
So it was very hard because I was like,
Surely we should be doing more sports and

653
00:29:19,115 --> 00:29:23,165
like, she just, I exposed her to a ton of
sports and she was just never into them.

654
00:29:23,604 --> 00:29:25,735
And the, you know, the younger
is completely opposite.

655
00:29:25,735 --> 00:29:26,574
She's very into it.

656
00:29:26,604 --> 00:29:30,215
So that's a, you know, my
experience around that is very

657
00:29:30,215 --> 00:29:31,164
different between the two.

658
00:29:31,164 --> 00:29:32,904
And I don't think I
really changed that much.

659
00:29:32,904 --> 00:29:34,254
It's just, the kid was very different.

660
00:29:34,645 --> 00:29:38,634
I think with the first one, I
tried to teach her a lot of age,

661
00:29:38,644 --> 00:29:40,364
inappropriate things early on.

662
00:29:40,524 --> 00:29:44,345
And I, it was kind of a
frustrating experience for me.

663
00:29:44,345 --> 00:29:46,395
I was the younger one to try to be.

664
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,100
Think a little bit about like what is
age appropriate and be like a little bit

665
00:29:51,100 --> 00:29:52,700
further from that if that makes sense.

666
00:29:54,710 --> 00:29:55,250
It's interesting.

667
00:29:55,250 --> 00:29:59,150
I mean, you care so much and you're so
focused on the first one that in some

668
00:29:59,150 --> 00:30:03,440
ways, maybe I even did some better stuff
with her, whereas the second one, it's

669
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:05,220
a little bit like, okay, you'll be fine.

670
00:30:05,220 --> 00:30:05,700
Kind of thing.

671
00:30:05,710 --> 00:30:09,630
Like I remember with the first one, like,
you know, there's like no technology,

672
00:30:09,649 --> 00:30:13,150
no iPad, nothing until the age of
like two and a half or something.

673
00:30:13,499 --> 00:30:16,670
Whereas with the second one, we're
like, you know, there's like her sister

674
00:30:16,690 --> 00:30:19,120
has some and like, right, et cetera.

675
00:30:19,220 --> 00:30:21,489
We still have like a lot of
restrictions, but we were definitely

676
00:30:21,489 --> 00:30:22,780
like a little more flexible.

677
00:30:23,390 --> 00:30:23,930
Sorry, I don't know.

678
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:25,330
There's some regression there, I guess.

679
00:30:27,220 --> 00:30:28,880
Adam Fishman: With your older
daughter, you mentioned you tried

680
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:33,599
to kind of teach her or do sort of
age inappropriate things with her.

681
00:30:33,599 --> 00:30:36,299
And I don't anticipate that means
the two of you are sitting down

682
00:30:36,300 --> 00:30:39,160
watching R rated movies together
when she's five or anything.

683
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,419
But what's an example of something
where you got out of balance

684
00:30:42,420 --> 00:30:44,160
with thinking like, You she's

685
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:48,410
Immad Akhund: capable of this or I mean
all this stuff like a yeah like I'm really

686
00:30:48,410 --> 00:30:52,169
into maths and coding and stuff like that
so I was like trying to teach algebra

687
00:30:52,190 --> 00:30:55,859
when she was like seven or something I've
been trying to teach a coding and things

688
00:30:55,859 --> 00:31:00,140
like that since the age of like seven as
well as six well maybe eight for that one

689
00:31:00,200 --> 00:31:02,049
but either like this I've always like.

690
00:31:02,460 --> 00:31:05,980
Pushed fairly hard to try to like
do like some of the things I'm

691
00:31:05,980 --> 00:31:07,350
interested in to try to engage it.

692
00:31:07,350 --> 00:31:10,730
And like now that she's 12, she's finally
like actually at a level where she can

693
00:31:10,730 --> 00:31:13,870
get it and I can like do it and like,
and I'm like, okay, you know, was it

694
00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,750
worth me like kind of getting frustrated
trying to teach her something that

695
00:31:17,750 --> 00:31:19,350
she was like clearly not ready for.

696
00:31:19,730 --> 00:31:22,350
But maybe, you know, I did expose
her to things and like hopefully

697
00:31:22,350 --> 00:31:25,620
like helped her form her brain.

698
00:31:25,820 --> 00:31:27,970
Adam Fishman: You know, you
had one kid when you started

699
00:31:28,020 --> 00:31:29,360
one of your earlier companies.

700
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:29,379
Is.

701
00:31:29,820 --> 00:31:32,700
And you had two at the start of mercury.

702
00:31:33,060 --> 00:31:37,160
Has that changed how you think
about running a business or being

703
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,479
a CEO or how you manage at all?

704
00:31:40,390 --> 00:31:42,030
Immad Akhund: You know, the
two companies were like.

705
00:31:42,375 --> 00:31:43,905
Eight ish years apart, right?

706
00:31:44,815 --> 00:31:45,065
2008.

707
00:31:45,125 --> 00:31:50,234
And I think it's hard to disentangle
like how I changed as a person and what

708
00:31:50,234 --> 00:31:53,564
I learned as an entrepreneur from like,
okay, you know what I learned from

709
00:31:53,564 --> 00:31:58,135
being a dad, you know, this mercury
was like a distillation of like, you

710
00:31:58,135 --> 00:32:01,965
know, all the things I'd learned from
my three startups before I definitely

711
00:32:01,965 --> 00:32:03,985
did things that were like unique.

712
00:32:03,985 --> 00:32:07,395
And yeah, some of them you could probably
tie back to this parenting stuff.

713
00:32:07,395 --> 00:32:10,695
So, you know, one thing that was
really important to me was I, you

714
00:32:10,695 --> 00:32:15,605
know, I tried to set myself up to
never be a bottleneck on things that

715
00:32:15,605 --> 00:32:16,985
needed to get done at the company.

716
00:32:16,985 --> 00:32:20,315
So, you know, I'd often talk
to other entrepreneurs and I'm

717
00:32:20,315 --> 00:32:21,555
a, quite an active investor.

718
00:32:21,625 --> 00:32:22,944
I've invested in 300 companies.

719
00:32:22,955 --> 00:32:24,134
So I'm always talking to entrepreneurs.

720
00:32:24,134 --> 00:32:26,874
I'm like, you know, so often you
talk to them and I'm like, Oh, you

721
00:32:26,874 --> 00:32:27,924
know, what's stopping you growing?

722
00:32:27,924 --> 00:32:29,434
Or like, what's stopping
you doing this faster?

723
00:32:29,445 --> 00:32:31,394
And it's often about them, right?

724
00:32:31,395 --> 00:32:34,175
Like, like the CEO will be
like, Oh, I just like, I don't

725
00:32:34,175 --> 00:32:35,565
have time to do this and that.

726
00:32:35,995 --> 00:32:38,915
Well, like I'm doing the sales and
I'm the bottleneck on that, et cetera.

727
00:32:39,295 --> 00:32:41,235
I mean, it's different when there's
three people and you have no

728
00:32:41,235 --> 00:32:42,904
funding, but like, this is like a.

729
00:32:43,215 --> 00:32:46,135
Seed funded company that have like
10 people or something that I'm

730
00:32:46,145 --> 00:32:49,555
like, you know, is it really good
to be the main person that's holding

731
00:32:49,555 --> 00:32:50,645
everything back all the time?

732
00:32:50,645 --> 00:32:53,635
And there's only one of you
goes back to my point about like

733
00:32:53,635 --> 00:32:54,975
working an extra hour a day.

734
00:32:55,295 --> 00:32:58,705
I just think like when I set up
mercury, I just thought that was flawed.

735
00:32:58,734 --> 00:33:00,594
Like, I don't want to be
the bottleneck on things.

736
00:33:01,064 --> 00:33:04,135
So from like, basically the start,
we initially had eight people

737
00:33:04,175 --> 00:33:06,365
after we raised, uh, Seed round.

738
00:33:06,405 --> 00:33:09,295
There was a couple of things I did
bottleneck, like fundraising, bank

739
00:33:09,295 --> 00:33:13,115
partnerships, but most other things I
was never the only person working on.

740
00:33:13,165 --> 00:33:18,325
I mean, I always tried to set myself
up from that stage onwards as like

741
00:33:18,325 --> 00:33:20,165
the accelerant, but not the blocker.

742
00:33:20,354 --> 00:33:23,905
So, you know, I initially I was doing
front end engineering, but like there

743
00:33:23,905 --> 00:33:25,235
was two other people doing it as well.

744
00:33:25,235 --> 00:33:27,585
And I just sped it up by 33 percent or so.

745
00:33:28,135 --> 00:33:33,195
And yeah, obviously your role as
the CEO changes over time, but I've

746
00:33:33,205 --> 00:33:36,525
almost always gone, like if I do ever
become the bottleneck on something.

747
00:33:36,855 --> 00:33:41,765
How do I go hire someone that can like
do a better job than me and then how do

748
00:33:41,765 --> 00:33:45,904
I instead focus on the things that I can
accelerate and that's a good model also

749
00:33:45,904 --> 00:33:50,474
for like having a, I mean, I don't love
the phrase work life balance, but like

750
00:33:50,474 --> 00:33:54,964
having a family and having life outside
work is like if you are the bottleneck

751
00:33:54,964 --> 00:33:58,675
and like, yeah, like mercury is very
important to me, it's my startup, like

752
00:33:58,675 --> 00:34:03,005
it's my life in its own way, but if I'm
always the one like slowing things down,

753
00:34:03,015 --> 00:34:04,635
then I feel like I need to work harder.

754
00:34:04,635 --> 00:34:04,895
Right.

755
00:34:04,905 --> 00:34:07,105
Whereas like if I'm like,
Hey, things are working well.

756
00:34:07,490 --> 00:34:12,570
even without me like continuously like at
the helm that allows me to like actually

757
00:34:12,570 --> 00:34:15,670
step back and it's good for my career
as well because you know, then you can

758
00:34:15,670 --> 00:34:18,420
focus on like some high level things.

759
00:34:18,420 --> 00:34:20,700
You don't have to be always
stuck in like doing the thing.

760
00:34:20,910 --> 00:34:23,699
Adam Fishman: I love that way of thinking
that striking a better balance with your

761
00:34:23,699 --> 00:34:28,160
family helps remove you a bit from being
the bottleneck to your company because

762
00:34:28,450 --> 00:34:30,250
naturally you're not there all the time.

763
00:34:30,260 --> 00:34:33,130
Other people have to be able to make
decisions and move things forward.

764
00:34:33,140 --> 00:34:35,280
That's a really good way
of thinking about it.

765
00:34:35,825 --> 00:34:41,055
I wanted to talk a little bit
about conflict and managing through

766
00:34:41,055 --> 00:34:44,585
disagreements, because this is
a kind of the third topic that

767
00:34:44,585 --> 00:34:45,724
you've mentioned in our prep.

768
00:34:45,724 --> 00:34:49,794
So we all know that partnership
is super important when you have

769
00:34:49,794 --> 00:34:55,325
kids and you have a spouse, but
it is also very hard to agree.

770
00:34:55,590 --> 00:34:59,220
100 percent of the time with your
spouse, especially when it comes

771
00:34:59,220 --> 00:35:02,910
to like things about kids or family
decisions and things like that.

772
00:35:02,930 --> 00:35:06,970
And so I'm curious to hear about
how you manage disagreements.

773
00:35:07,335 --> 00:35:11,255
And maybe where's an area where you
and your wife have difference of

774
00:35:11,255 --> 00:35:11,705
Immad Akhund: opinion.

775
00:35:12,185 --> 00:35:17,245
Funnily, I would say like the way me and
my wife work with each other and manage

776
00:35:17,245 --> 00:35:20,735
disagreements is similar to how I work
with my co founders at my startup or

777
00:35:20,745 --> 00:35:22,365
like how I work with people in general.

778
00:35:22,445 --> 00:35:22,735
She's

779
00:35:22,735 --> 00:35:23,434
Adam Fishman: your family co

780
00:35:23,434 --> 00:35:23,904
Immad Akhund: founder.

781
00:35:23,915 --> 00:35:25,134
So it makes sense.

782
00:35:25,134 --> 00:35:27,275
And the way we normally do it is like.

783
00:35:29,500 --> 00:35:34,000
We try to not care about the same
things as much, if that makes sense.

784
00:35:34,010 --> 00:35:38,519
So there's certain things that I care
a lot about and, you know, when it's

785
00:35:38,529 --> 00:35:43,280
obvious that one of us cares a lot
about it, the other one, like, you know,

786
00:35:43,870 --> 00:35:47,930
on the whole gives the other person
space to like make the decision on it.

787
00:35:47,930 --> 00:35:53,020
So, for example, I care a lot about sports
and my wife doesn't necessarily, you

788
00:35:53,020 --> 00:35:57,459
know, I end up organizing most of them and
like taking my kids and things like that.

789
00:35:57,459 --> 00:36:00,380
And my wife cares a lot about education
and she ends up doing a lot of it.

790
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,640
Yeah, it doesn't mean we don't
help each other, but it does like

791
00:36:04,660 --> 00:36:08,240
avoid arguments when you have like,
you know, like zones of control.

792
00:36:08,240 --> 00:36:10,160
It's like, Hey, this is
your zone of control.

793
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:11,400
This is mine.

794
00:36:11,580 --> 00:36:15,960
And actually I would say most of the
time the arguments happen when either

795
00:36:15,990 --> 00:36:20,109
it's not defined whose zone of control
a certain decision is, or it's something

796
00:36:20,110 --> 00:36:23,299
that you both care about so much that
you both want to like be part of that

797
00:36:23,299 --> 00:36:26,749
zone of control if it's a former and
it's just not defined, then like, I

798
00:36:26,759 --> 00:36:29,579
think you just have to spend some time
like going, okay, you know, actually you

799
00:36:29,579 --> 00:36:31,080
care a lot more about this than I do.

800
00:36:31,110 --> 00:36:34,220
Like you do it if it is something
that you both care about and you

801
00:36:34,220 --> 00:36:36,600
really want to like come to it.

802
00:36:36,720 --> 00:36:38,179
And I mean, that's healthy too, right?

803
00:36:38,180 --> 00:36:39,370
Like, it's good to know, like, Hey.

804
00:36:39,660 --> 00:36:42,910
We really both care about this
and let's hash it out and figure

805
00:36:42,910 --> 00:36:45,030
out like, what's the right answer.

806
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:49,470
And then I would say like relying on
like having like a very respectful

807
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:57,180
kind of logic argument rather than
like a emotional kind of like argument

808
00:36:57,180 --> 00:37:00,250
where you're like, you know, being
mean about each other or something

809
00:37:00,260 --> 00:37:01,970
like that, I think is like the key.

810
00:37:02,070 --> 00:37:06,420
But most of the time, like if you do
this well, like it's relatively rare for

811
00:37:06,420 --> 00:37:10,339
something to come up as like in both of
our zones of control and care, right?

812
00:37:10,339 --> 00:37:13,790
Like it's just like relatively rare
that I'm like, you know, I definitely

813
00:37:13,790 --> 00:37:15,009
100 percent care about this.

814
00:37:15,010 --> 00:37:15,990
And I disagree with you.

815
00:37:15,990 --> 00:37:18,000
That's like actually like kind of unusual.

816
00:37:18,199 --> 00:37:21,150
We're both like fairly
different personalities.

817
00:37:21,199 --> 00:37:23,720
I'd say like, that's also true
in the startup world, right?

818
00:37:23,730 --> 00:37:27,750
Like, I think like the way I split
responsibilities with my co founders

819
00:37:27,750 --> 00:37:31,660
are like, Fairly well defined and
they really care about the things they

820
00:37:31,660 --> 00:37:34,700
care about and I also care about them,
but I'm happy for them to like take

821
00:37:34,700 --> 00:37:38,400
the lead and I don't need to be the
end decision maker on those things.

822
00:37:38,500 --> 00:37:39,419
So that works out well.

823
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:39,829
Do

824
00:37:39,830 --> 00:37:44,290
Adam Fishman: you find that you and your
wife have to carve out specific time

825
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:48,740
to sit down and talk about sometimes
divide up these things or figure out who

826
00:37:48,770 --> 00:37:52,520
cares about what maybe when there's a
new thing that kind of comes into play?

827
00:37:52,890 --> 00:37:55,500
To life, just like, I guess you'd
have to do with a co founder.

828
00:37:56,750 --> 00:37:57,210
Immad Akhund: Yeah.

829
00:37:57,210 --> 00:38:03,260
I mean, actually one of the risks when
you have like kids and a family is to make

830
00:38:03,260 --> 00:38:05,430
too much of your time logistics, right?

831
00:38:05,460 --> 00:38:07,509
Like I think it's actually like
a little dangerous to go like.

832
00:38:08,100 --> 00:38:09,050
What's happening tomorrow?

833
00:38:09,050 --> 00:38:11,990
What are we doing about this and all
that stuff and you end up like not

834
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:13,750
having any quality time to work together.

835
00:38:13,750 --> 00:38:17,030
You're almost like just like
running your family together and

836
00:38:17,030 --> 00:38:18,299
not spending any time together.

837
00:38:18,299 --> 00:38:21,049
So I think there's always a risk of that.

838
00:38:21,129 --> 00:38:24,900
And I think it's important to have like
date nights and like do other things that

839
00:38:24,910 --> 00:38:26,584
like actually give you like one on one.

840
00:38:26,615 --> 00:38:29,125
Quality time together and
not just logistics planning.

841
00:38:29,195 --> 00:38:32,185
We're not like, you know, I know some
families that do like weekly planning

842
00:38:32,185 --> 00:38:33,895
meetings and all that kind of stuff.

843
00:38:33,935 --> 00:38:36,735
I would say we're like a lot
more ad hoc on these things.

844
00:38:36,775 --> 00:38:39,235
We have like a shared
kind of notes to do thing.

845
00:38:39,235 --> 00:38:40,764
And we do plan around that.

846
00:38:40,764 --> 00:38:43,234
And then we just kind of, you
know, whenever something has to

847
00:38:43,244 --> 00:38:44,505
be dealt with, we talk about it.

848
00:38:44,865 --> 00:38:46,895
Adam Fishman: Do you have a
particular piece of technology

849
00:38:47,005 --> 00:38:48,345
that the two of you use to bridge?

850
00:38:48,740 --> 00:38:50,650
That are you just doing
Apple notes or are you?

851
00:38:50,650 --> 00:38:52,240
Immad Akhund: Yeah, we just
do a shared Apple notes.

852
00:38:52,240 --> 00:38:54,960
Actually, we just created one with
our daughter as well, which is

853
00:38:54,970 --> 00:38:56,310
kind of fun because now she's 12.

854
00:38:56,310 --> 00:38:58,389
So you can like have her
kind of involved in it.

855
00:38:58,390 --> 00:39:02,860
And she's like adding things on her mom's
to do's and things like that as well.

856
00:39:03,190 --> 00:39:04,350
But yeah, it's shared notes.

857
00:39:04,350 --> 00:39:07,579
I think that works fine
and it's available on all

858
00:39:07,579 --> 00:39:08,189
Adam Fishman: platforms.

859
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:11,470
So that actually brings up a
really good question that I have

860
00:39:11,470 --> 00:39:15,620
for you, which is you're teaching
your oldest daughter about coding.

861
00:39:15,629 --> 00:39:17,900
You've been doing that for a little while.

862
00:39:18,215 --> 00:39:20,845
And you just mentioned this
idea of having a shared note.

863
00:39:21,265 --> 00:39:26,605
And so, you know, she's obviously somewhat
immersed in technology, obviously.

864
00:39:26,625 --> 00:39:30,124
And one of her parents is,
that's your whole career has

865
00:39:30,124 --> 00:39:31,895
been steeped in technology.

866
00:39:32,105 --> 00:39:34,674
How do you think about the
relationship that you want

867
00:39:34,684 --> 00:39:36,374
both of your kids to have with.

868
00:39:36,905 --> 00:39:38,495
Technology as they get older.

869
00:39:39,425 --> 00:39:39,645
Immad Akhund: Yeah.

870
00:39:39,645 --> 00:39:40,475
It's a good question.

871
00:39:40,475 --> 00:39:44,945
You know, I'm anti some things like I
think like short form video, whether it's

872
00:39:44,955 --> 00:39:49,125
TikTok or YouTube shorts or whatever, it's
kind of just junk, it's like junk food.

873
00:39:49,245 --> 00:39:55,605
And I've mostly deleted it slash banded on
all of the technology devices they have.

874
00:39:56,095 --> 00:40:00,295
But, and you know, I guess like everyone
does this, like I watched a reasonable

875
00:40:00,295 --> 00:40:04,305
amount of TV growing up and I played a
lot of computer games growing up and.

876
00:40:04,700 --> 00:40:08,060
I feel like I learned a reasonable
amount from them and I don't think

877
00:40:08,060 --> 00:40:09,890
they're like as negative as it seems.

878
00:40:09,890 --> 00:40:13,500
I think everything has to be in
balance, but Like I actively encourage

879
00:40:13,530 --> 00:40:17,500
my six year old to play games on
her iPad and yeah, there's obviously

880
00:40:17,510 --> 00:40:20,190
some slightly more educational
games or even non educational ones.

881
00:40:20,190 --> 00:40:23,740
I think I would rather she spend
time playing a game on her iPad than

882
00:40:23,750 --> 00:40:25,850
like watching a TV show on her iPad.

883
00:40:25,990 --> 00:40:30,659
And then we have like lots of like,
you know, general like rules to try

884
00:40:30,659 --> 00:40:33,520
to limit it just because like, it's
obviously not good at self control.

885
00:40:33,940 --> 00:40:37,720
So we, Try to not give them
technology during the weekdays.

886
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:40,500
But yeah, I mean, I would say
like, we're on the flexible side.

887
00:40:40,500 --> 00:40:43,350
Like, I think all of these
things, like in some measure, like

888
00:40:43,350 --> 00:40:45,000
good and too much, they're bad.

889
00:40:45,089 --> 00:40:45,359
Yeah.

890
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,029
And a 12 year old.

891
00:40:48,100 --> 00:40:51,899
And I don't know if we were really good
at this or she's just like very sensible.

892
00:40:51,899 --> 00:40:53,959
It's just like, she's just very sensible.

893
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,030
So like, we don't have
to like do too much.

894
00:40:56,100 --> 00:41:00,190
And yeah, she mostly likes
reading books in her spare time.

895
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:01,420
So That's great.

896
00:41:01,470 --> 00:41:06,040
But I am also very anti social
media, especially for teenage girls.

897
00:41:06,070 --> 00:41:11,729
I just think it's fairly negative And
we do let her have iMessage and like

898
00:41:11,730 --> 00:41:14,870
she talks to her friends through that
a lot and has a lot of group chats

899
00:41:14,870 --> 00:41:19,280
with them Which even that like I can
see is distracting her a lot like,

900
00:41:19,300 --> 00:41:22,090
you know message comes in She wants
to like see what her friends are

901
00:41:22,090 --> 00:41:25,805
saying But at the same time, like, I
don't think it's like too unhealthy.

902
00:41:25,805 --> 00:41:29,225
I just, I don't like the idea of like
Instagram and all that kind of stuff.

903
00:41:29,525 --> 00:41:31,355
I don't know how long I can hold the line.

904
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:35,290
My current plan is to kind of go all
the way to 18, but I have a feeling

905
00:41:35,290 --> 00:41:38,105
that at 16 maybe I'll have to give in.

906
00:41:38,545 --> 00:41:38,815
Yeah.

907
00:41:38,815 --> 00:41:42,385
Otherwise, you know, I think technology
is a good enabler for a lot of things.

908
00:41:42,385 --> 00:41:45,655
And like my older daughter
is like very into drawing on

909
00:41:45,655 --> 00:41:46,975
an iPad and things like that.

910
00:41:46,975 --> 00:41:47,215
That's great.

911
00:41:47,215 --> 00:41:47,305
Yeah.

912
00:41:47,410 --> 00:41:49,645
I, I don't try to like
overly restrict things.

913
00:41:49,645 --> 00:41:50,095
Mm-Hmm.

914
00:41:50,715 --> 00:41:51,250
,
Adam Fishman: so you have.

915
00:41:52,085 --> 00:41:53,365
Many irons in the fire.

916
00:41:53,365 --> 00:41:54,835
You're a founder of a company.

917
00:41:55,175 --> 00:41:55,855
You're an investor.

918
00:41:55,855 --> 00:41:58,555
You mentioned you made over
300 investments, which that's

919
00:41:58,565 --> 00:42:00,895
for a different show, but we'll
talk about that at some point.

920
00:42:01,075 --> 00:42:01,885
You're a dad.

921
00:42:02,330 --> 00:42:06,180
You also have a podcast that
I have recently discovered.

922
00:42:06,510 --> 00:42:11,919
What do you do to restore your
batteries or center yourself or

923
00:42:11,919 --> 00:42:15,050
like recharge with all of this stuff

924
00:42:15,090 --> 00:42:15,520
Immad Akhund: going on?

925
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:21,379
Almost everything I do when it comes
to things I do outside my startup, I

926
00:42:21,379 --> 00:42:22,920
try to do things that give me energy.

927
00:42:22,940 --> 00:42:26,520
So, you know, investing, like I
like talking to entrepreneurs, like.

928
00:42:26,735 --> 00:42:31,395
You know, they give me like this
view into like the future and, you

929
00:42:31,395 --> 00:42:33,275
know, I like helping entrepreneurs.

930
00:42:33,275 --> 00:42:33,855
Like it's fun.

931
00:42:34,015 --> 00:42:34,335
Sure.

932
00:42:34,355 --> 00:42:37,405
Like at times it's like a little
draining, but on the whole, I would

933
00:42:37,405 --> 00:42:38,865
say it's like a pretty fun thing to do.

934
00:42:38,865 --> 00:42:41,465
And I mostly consider
it as like a fun hobby.

935
00:42:41,895 --> 00:42:43,265
Same with my podcast.

936
00:42:43,275 --> 00:42:48,105
Like, yeah, the, my main work is
really like mercury and that's 90

937
00:42:48,105 --> 00:42:50,225
percent or 99 percent of my focus.

938
00:42:50,305 --> 00:42:53,185
And the thing that like
does take a lot of energy.

939
00:42:53,185 --> 00:42:53,375
Yeah.

940
00:42:53,375 --> 00:42:53,382
Yeah.

941
00:42:53,382 --> 00:42:53,389
Yeah.

942
00:42:53,570 --> 00:42:57,130
And then obviously like making sure my
kids are happy and growing all these other

943
00:42:57,130 --> 00:43:02,000
things I try to construct in a way that
they're like generally like low effort,

944
00:43:02,370 --> 00:43:06,480
low logistics and mostly like things I
would enjoy doing and I would do for fun.

945
00:43:06,859 --> 00:43:09,439
Adam Fishman: Yeah that's great as
long as you're finding the things

946
00:43:09,439 --> 00:43:12,560
that give you energy you don't have
to do that much recharging because

947
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:13,800
your batteries are always it is

948
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,540
Immad Akhund: recharging yeah and what
are you going to do instead watch tv

949
00:43:16,540 --> 00:43:21,190
that's true it's boring that's absolutely
right I mean I would say I have like a.

950
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:23,660
a lot of mental stamina.

951
00:43:23,730 --> 00:43:27,330
I don't think everyone is like this,
but like, yeah, like even in my

952
00:43:27,330 --> 00:43:31,409
spare time, I want to go read like
a book about science or something.

953
00:43:31,409 --> 00:43:35,639
Like I want to, I always want to be all
like, listen to this kind of podcast.

954
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:39,179
Like I always want to do things that like
take a lot of mental energy, but like I

955
00:43:39,180 --> 00:43:41,110
find intellectual stimulation, like really

956
00:43:41,110 --> 00:43:41,590
Adam Fishman: interesting.

957
00:43:43,020 --> 00:43:46,545
So one of the things we talk
a lot about On podcasts.

958
00:43:46,545 --> 00:43:50,325
When we talk about talk with the
professional folks or entrepreneurs,

959
00:43:50,675 --> 00:43:53,245
talk about mistakes that you've
made in building a company.

960
00:43:53,275 --> 00:43:56,334
And I'm sure you've made many
it's impossible not to, right.

961
00:43:56,335 --> 00:43:57,484
You've done it enough times.

962
00:43:58,020 --> 00:43:59,120
You're going to make some mistakes.

963
00:43:59,120 --> 00:43:59,890
That's how you learn.

964
00:43:59,900 --> 00:44:04,260
Like you mentioned, mercury was like
an amalgamation of multiple companies,

965
00:44:04,570 --> 00:44:06,220
like in one sort of approach.

966
00:44:06,829 --> 00:44:11,250
But I wanted to ask you, what is a mistake
that you think you've made as a dad?

967
00:44:14,500 --> 00:44:15,330
Immad Akhund: That's a good one.

968
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:24,390
I think this is the lesson that I'm
often relearning is I think it's very.

969
00:44:24,935 --> 00:44:30,475
Important to like kind of push your
kids to do things that they're already

970
00:44:30,475 --> 00:44:33,675
enjoying and like doubling down on
those rather than like trying to get

971
00:44:33,675 --> 00:44:35,134
them to do things they're not enjoying.

972
00:44:35,134 --> 00:44:39,625
So, you know, as I said earlier, I
often tried to get my older kid into

973
00:44:39,625 --> 00:44:41,114
sports and she was never into it.

974
00:44:41,154 --> 00:44:44,454
And I think maybe some of that
energy could have been like put in

975
00:44:44,494 --> 00:44:47,725
towards doing things that she was
enjoying and like doing more of those.

976
00:44:48,425 --> 00:44:49,915
I think that's one big one.

977
00:44:49,935 --> 00:44:54,375
This one, you know, it's tricky to
say like how you could, how we would

978
00:44:54,375 --> 00:44:56,770
have done it differently, but Yeah.

979
00:44:57,510 --> 00:45:01,250
There's a whole art to like getting
into a good school in San Francisco.

980
00:45:02,260 --> 00:45:05,370
And when we had our first
kid, you know, I was 27.

981
00:45:05,380 --> 00:45:06,840
None of my friends had had kids.

982
00:45:06,970 --> 00:45:09,270
So we were just kind of
figuring it out, right?

983
00:45:09,270 --> 00:45:12,029
Like, I mean, obviously we could talk
to some of the other parents, but it's

984
00:45:12,029 --> 00:45:16,810
not, it's different when your friends or
like your direct people are like having

985
00:45:16,810 --> 00:45:20,160
kids and you can see like how they got
into a school and what they did, etc.

986
00:45:20,695 --> 00:45:24,055
It was like, even how you pick a school,
like everything was very, very foreign.

987
00:45:24,095 --> 00:45:27,795
And I think we ended up making much
better choices with our younger kid.

988
00:45:27,805 --> 00:45:31,404
And, and now we're really happy with
where we are, but it was definitely like

989
00:45:31,404 --> 00:45:33,365
a bit of a struggle figuring it out.

990
00:45:33,365 --> 00:45:37,084
And I don't know how I would impart that
knowledge to a younger version of me.

991
00:45:37,085 --> 00:45:39,885
And, you know, if there's someone
out there that you can maybe ping

992
00:45:39,885 --> 00:45:43,415
me and I could tell you like the
high level, but it is like a tricky.

993
00:45:43,625 --> 00:45:44,235
Game to play.

994
00:45:44,235 --> 00:45:47,565
I don't know if it's like that in every
place, but even like knowing like, what

995
00:45:47,575 --> 00:45:51,725
do I even care about in a school took a
while to like figure out all these things.

996
00:45:51,745 --> 00:45:55,545
And now I feel like I'm a freaking pro
at picking schools and getting kids

997
00:45:55,545 --> 00:45:57,444
into schools, but it took a long time.

998
00:45:57,445 --> 00:46:00,184
And like, that was like, probably
like some better schooling.

999
00:46:00,184 --> 00:46:01,604
I could have delivered my kids earlier.

1000
00:46:01,660 --> 00:46:04,880
Adam Fishman: Well, I'll tell you
one thing we won't do on this show

1001
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:08,420
is tell people to email you with all
their school application questions.

1002
00:46:08,630 --> 00:46:12,750
You're a little too busy for that, but I
can't appreciate that after going through

1003
00:46:12,750 --> 00:46:17,159
it with multiple kids, you're probably an
expert in navigating San Francisco school

1004
00:46:17,190 --> 00:46:17,500
Immad Akhund: applications.

1005
00:46:18,070 --> 00:46:19,399
So it is quite an

1006
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:19,880
Adam Fishman: ordeal.

1007
00:46:20,060 --> 00:46:21,739
Yeah, I hear they don't make it very easy.

1008
00:46:21,739 --> 00:46:24,809
I fortunately live outside of
San Francisco, so I haven't had

1009
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:28,470
to manage it, but I have many
friends who have doesn't sound fun.

1010
00:46:29,005 --> 00:46:35,215
So my last question for you, before we get
into our rapid fire round is aside from.

1011
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:39,080
You know, telling people to go
sign up for Mercury, which I did

1012
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:41,000
as soon as I started my business.

1013
00:46:41,310 --> 00:46:46,009
How can people follow along or be
helpful to you and your journey or

1014
00:46:46,010 --> 00:46:47,150
as you're building your company?

1015
00:46:47,870 --> 00:46:48,850
Immad Akhund: Good question.

1016
00:46:48,860 --> 00:46:54,059
I tweet a lot on X or Twitter and
I've been trying to get into LinkedIn.

1017
00:46:54,059 --> 00:46:56,100
So feel free to follow me there.

1018
00:46:56,110 --> 00:46:59,350
And I also have a podcast that
is currently called Curiosity

1019
00:46:59,380 --> 00:47:02,030
Podcast, although I'm changing
it to Age of Wonder Podcast.

1020
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:03,200
Oh, okay.

1021
00:47:03,230 --> 00:47:05,150
So Yeah, follow along.

1022
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:07,910
And if you have any feedback
or questions about Mercury,

1023
00:47:07,950 --> 00:47:09,270
feel free to DM me on Twitter.

1024
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:10,720
I'm pretty responsive there.

1025
00:47:11,060 --> 00:47:11,490
Adam Fishman: Okay.

1026
00:47:11,490 --> 00:47:16,500
So Twitter, LinkedIn and the soon
to be renamed age of wonder podcast.

1027
00:47:16,539 --> 00:47:18,710
Now the curiosity podcast.

1028
00:47:18,810 --> 00:47:19,210
All right.

1029
00:47:19,230 --> 00:47:20,309
Well, thank you very much.

1030
00:47:20,330 --> 00:47:21,740
Now let's do rapid fire.

1031
00:47:21,740 --> 00:47:22,580
If you're up for it.

1032
00:47:23,045 --> 00:47:23,655
Yeah, let's do it.

1033
00:47:24,015 --> 00:47:24,855
First question.

1034
00:47:25,055 --> 00:47:25,865
Here we go.

1035
00:47:25,915 --> 00:47:31,305
What is the most indispensable parenting
product that you have ever purchased?

1036
00:47:31,755 --> 00:47:35,824
Immad Akhund: I think the best thing
which I either didn't exist or I

1037
00:47:35,825 --> 00:47:39,424
discovered late was a Doona pushchair.

1038
00:47:39,524 --> 00:47:39,864
Yeah.

1039
00:47:39,884 --> 00:47:40,604
Stroller, sorry.

1040
00:47:40,794 --> 00:47:42,735
And the coolest thing
about it is that collapses.

1041
00:47:42,735 --> 00:47:46,025
So we lived in San Francisco and
often we're taking Ubers and like

1042
00:47:46,025 --> 00:47:48,615
taking an Uber is such a pain in
the ass that the child see it.

1043
00:47:48,615 --> 00:47:49,684
It's like so annoying.

1044
00:47:50,305 --> 00:47:52,005
This thing just like completely collapses.

1045
00:47:52,005 --> 00:47:54,655
It takes like two seconds,
super useful product.

1046
00:47:55,260 --> 00:47:56,350
I would highly recommend it.

1047
00:47:56,770 --> 00:47:59,330
Adam Fishman: You know, other people
who I've had on this show who live

1048
00:47:59,330 --> 00:48:03,050
in San Francisco have said the exact
same thing, which is just amazing.

1049
00:48:03,130 --> 00:48:03,220
Yeah.

1050
00:48:03,220 --> 00:48:04,570
So there must be something there.

1051
00:48:04,600 --> 00:48:06,299
I should get them to sponsor this show.

1052
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:07,060
Okay.

1053
00:48:07,060 --> 00:48:11,290
What is the most useless parenting
product that you've ever purchased?

1054
00:48:11,750 --> 00:48:15,330
Immad Akhund: You know, the funny
thing is almost all plastic toys are

1055
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:19,490
like completely useless, like most of
the time you buy the plastic toy, And

1056
00:48:19,500 --> 00:48:22,720
then the kids spends all their time
with the packaging, you know, the box.

1057
00:48:22,750 --> 00:48:24,460
And I'm like, what the
hell did we buy this?

1058
00:48:24,490 --> 00:48:25,130
Adam Fishman: Yes.

1059
00:48:25,170 --> 00:48:30,470
Plastic toys go right in the garbage
and just contribute to whatever

1060
00:48:30,490 --> 00:48:32,469
waste we're creating in the world.

1061
00:48:32,900 --> 00:48:33,159
Okay.

1062
00:48:33,159 --> 00:48:34,429
Finish this sentence.

1063
00:48:34,770 --> 00:48:38,830
The ideal day with my
kids involves this one

1064
00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:39,630
Immad Akhund: activity.

1065
00:48:40,190 --> 00:48:41,660
Honestly, just quality time.

1066
00:48:41,720 --> 00:48:44,770
If we're doing something fun together,
I often take them to the arcade.

1067
00:48:45,010 --> 00:48:46,660
There's a couple around San Francisco.

1068
00:48:46,710 --> 00:48:48,939
And that's like always a kind
of a fun thing that they both

1069
00:48:48,940 --> 00:48:49,950
like doing together with me.

1070
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:50,700
Cool.

1071
00:48:50,910 --> 00:48:54,000
Adam Fishman: What is the most frustrating
thing that has ever happened to

1072
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:54,774
Immad Akhund: you as a dad?

1073
00:48:55,865 --> 00:49:00,435
I think the hardest thing is like having
a baby that's crying on an airplane.

1074
00:49:00,785 --> 00:49:03,585
I know people sometimes experience
it as a passenger and think it's

1075
00:49:03,585 --> 00:49:05,825
bad, but it's much worse as a parent.

1076
00:49:06,835 --> 00:49:10,115
It's like you're trying to console them
and you're trying to sleep yourself,

1077
00:49:10,125 --> 00:49:11,615
especially on an international flight.

1078
00:49:11,655 --> 00:49:13,944
I'm like, Oh, it's a very
frustrating experience.

1079
00:49:14,084 --> 00:49:14,714
Adam Fishman: Okay.

1080
00:49:14,744 --> 00:49:15,354
Yes.

1081
00:49:15,355 --> 00:49:17,355
For all those people who judge.

1082
00:49:17,750 --> 00:49:19,870
Parents on an airplane, just
remember the parents are

1083
00:49:19,870 --> 00:49:21,350
judging themselves even harder.

1084
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:22,140
It's the worst.

1085
00:49:22,530 --> 00:49:24,760
So you've got, you know, 6
year old and 12 year old.

1086
00:49:24,770 --> 00:49:28,290
What has been the favorite
ages for your kids?

1087
00:49:28,900 --> 00:49:31,060
Immad Akhund: Oh, my absolute
favorite age is 3 to 4.

1088
00:49:31,370 --> 00:49:32,280
Adam Fishman: 3 to 4?

1089
00:49:32,370 --> 00:49:33,050
Immad Akhund: Okay.

1090
00:49:33,299 --> 00:49:33,779
All right.

1091
00:49:33,780 --> 00:49:35,739
I just think they're so cute.

1092
00:49:35,739 --> 00:49:37,490
They're still like little babies.

1093
00:49:37,490 --> 00:49:40,300
But then they start talking
and they say the cutest things.

1094
00:49:40,350 --> 00:49:41,360
I just love that age.

1095
00:49:41,700 --> 00:49:44,230
Adam Fishman: What about
your least favorite age for

1096
00:49:44,230 --> 00:49:44,780
Immad Akhund: kids?

1097
00:49:45,175 --> 00:49:51,145
Uh, I think anything sub three months
and then nine to 12, nine to 18

1098
00:49:51,155 --> 00:49:54,054
months, like there's a time period
actually nine to 18 is probably the

1099
00:49:54,054 --> 00:49:57,385
worst because there's a time period
where they start moving around,

1100
00:49:57,745 --> 00:50:00,225
but they just have no sense, right?

1101
00:50:00,255 --> 00:50:02,045
Like, and there's no way to communicate.

1102
00:50:02,054 --> 00:50:04,445
It's like, you just have
to continuously be like.

1103
00:50:04,710 --> 00:50:07,000
looking at them and like, yeah, right.

1104
00:50:07,010 --> 00:50:09,460
It's full on helicoptering because
they literally fall down the

1105
00:50:09,460 --> 00:50:10,930
stairs or like hit themselves.

1106
00:50:11,100 --> 00:50:11,430
All right.

1107
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:11,720
Nine to

1108
00:50:11,720 --> 00:50:12,600
Adam Fishman: 18 months.

1109
00:50:12,730 --> 00:50:16,700
How many dad jokes do you
tell on average each day?

1110
00:50:17,090 --> 00:50:20,009
And how often does your 12 year
old roll her eyes when that

1111
00:50:20,020 --> 00:50:20,630
Immad Akhund: happens?

1112
00:50:21,159 --> 00:50:24,720
I'm very into dad jokes, like a
couple of times a day for sure.

1113
00:50:24,720 --> 00:50:27,550
My 12 year old actually still
kind of finds them funny, but

1114
00:50:27,830 --> 00:50:29,090
I know I'm running out of time.

1115
00:50:30,580 --> 00:50:31,080
Adam Fishman: Awesome.

1116
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:34,950
What was the most difficult kids TV show?

1117
00:50:35,255 --> 00:50:37,205
That you have ever had to sit through

1118
00:50:37,925 --> 00:50:39,975
Immad Akhund: the number of
times I've watched Frozen.

1119
00:50:40,075 --> 00:50:43,475
I am so done with that movie specifically.

1120
00:50:43,795 --> 00:50:47,175
And I don't know, there's a lot of
other TV shows that, you know, one

1121
00:50:47,175 --> 00:50:50,035
thing that's really good is Teen Titans.

1122
00:50:50,505 --> 00:50:51,584
Oh, okay.

1123
00:50:51,635 --> 00:50:55,135
Like it's actually like a surprisingly
entertaining show, which I've had to

1124
00:50:55,135 --> 00:50:57,935
watch all the way through as well,
but at least I didn't mind that one.

1125
00:50:58,185 --> 00:50:58,705
I will check

1126
00:50:58,705 --> 00:50:59,215
Adam Fishman: that one out.

1127
00:50:59,215 --> 00:51:01,105
I'm not sure that it's
made my rotation yet.

1128
00:51:01,175 --> 00:51:06,565
So speaking of which, what is
your absolute favorite kids movie?

1129
00:51:06,565 --> 00:51:08,114
We know frozen is probably.

1130
00:51:08,425 --> 00:51:12,025
The least favorite now, which
one is like a favorite of yours?

1131
00:51:12,725 --> 00:51:14,495
Immad Akhund: What is
the one with emotions?

1132
00:51:15,025 --> 00:51:16,955
Oh, inside out inside out.

1133
00:51:17,225 --> 00:51:18,074
I really like that one.

1134
00:51:18,074 --> 00:51:20,904
I thought that was like, uh,
at least I mean, I did like it.

1135
00:51:20,915 --> 00:51:23,975
The fourth or fifth time I had to
watch it, but the first time I liked

1136
00:51:24,035 --> 00:51:27,665
I watched, I was like, okay, you know,
some like really good ideas that I

1137
00:51:27,665 --> 00:51:31,835
feel like they, it gives you like
a nice vocabulary to talk to your

1138
00:51:31,835 --> 00:51:33,525
kids about emotions with as well.

1139
00:51:33,555 --> 00:51:34,315
I can like that show.

1140
00:51:34,585 --> 00:51:34,995
Adam Fishman: All right.

1141
00:51:35,005 --> 00:51:37,624
Have you ever accidentally
mixed up your kids names?

1142
00:51:37,624 --> 00:51:37,674
Yeah.

1143
00:51:38,070 --> 00:51:39,360
Immad Akhund: I mean, every day.

1144
00:51:40,170 --> 00:51:41,870
Well, I actually it's kind of interesting.

1145
00:51:41,870 --> 00:51:46,220
I think like in my head, they have
like one box, you know, it's my kids.

1146
00:51:46,429 --> 00:51:50,720
So like, I'm often like, you know,
it's very easy to mix them up.

1147
00:51:50,730 --> 00:51:54,940
But yeah, yeah, it's gotten a little
easy, actually, now that they're older,

1148
00:51:54,950 --> 00:52:00,329
and they like, yeah, I feel like their
boxes are separating a little bit.

1149
00:52:00,330 --> 00:52:01,960
But yeah, it's super easy to do that.

1150
00:52:02,460 --> 00:52:04,550
Adam Fishman: All right,
two final questions for you.

1151
00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:09,335
What Nostalgic movie
that is your favorite.

1152
00:52:09,355 --> 00:52:12,205
Can you just not wait to force your kids

1153
00:52:12,205 --> 00:52:12,775
Immad Akhund: to watch?

1154
00:52:12,895 --> 00:52:16,235
I just recently got them to
finally watch a matrix with me.

1155
00:52:16,375 --> 00:52:17,224
Oh, nice.

1156
00:52:17,235 --> 00:52:18,125
Both of them watch it.

1157
00:52:18,154 --> 00:52:23,594
I tried before, but my older one does
not like action movies until recently.

1158
00:52:23,595 --> 00:52:26,755
And my younger ones are happy
to watch it regardless, but we

1159
00:52:26,765 --> 00:52:27,795
watched it all the way through.

1160
00:52:27,815 --> 00:52:29,605
And yeah, it's kind of fun.

1161
00:52:29,965 --> 00:52:30,795
It's such a great movie.

1162
00:52:30,795 --> 00:52:30,945
One

1163
00:52:30,955 --> 00:52:31,455
Adam Fishman: of my faves.

1164
00:52:31,770 --> 00:52:33,230
Impressive, impressive.

1165
00:52:33,610 --> 00:52:35,290
And final question for you.

1166
00:52:35,930 --> 00:52:39,160
What is your take on minivans?

1167
00:52:39,850 --> 00:52:41,920
Immad Akhund: I had one
until very recently.

1168
00:52:42,060 --> 00:52:46,970
Now I have a model X, which is almost
as big, but not quite minivan y.

1169
00:52:47,050 --> 00:52:48,020
I love minivans.

1170
00:52:48,020 --> 00:52:50,470
They're great, like unlimited storage.

1171
00:52:50,489 --> 00:52:52,319
So, so flexible.

1172
00:52:52,420 --> 00:52:52,980
Yeah.

1173
00:52:53,020 --> 00:52:53,200
We

1174
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:55,809
Adam Fishman: don't get a lot
of pro minivan people on this.

1175
00:52:55,810 --> 00:53:00,570
Or sometimes we get a lot of
conflicted spouses where one is very

1176
00:53:00,570 --> 00:53:03,006
pro and one is very anti, but I love

1177
00:53:03,006 --> 00:53:03,253
Immad Akhund: that.

1178
00:53:03,253 --> 00:53:05,225
Both me and my wife are into minivans.

1179
00:53:05,225 --> 00:53:05,964
I love it.

1180
00:53:06,755 --> 00:53:10,125
I mean, I am a very practical person
and there's just like no one will

1181
00:53:10,125 --> 00:53:12,025
argue that they're not practical.

1182
00:53:13,245 --> 00:53:16,355
Adam Fishman: It's especially helpful
in San Francisco because the doors just

1183
00:53:16,365 --> 00:53:20,855
slide open and they don't like come out
from the car to be clipped by a biker or

1184
00:53:20,855 --> 00:53:26,420
something like that, you know, so maybe
not practical in the size, but, um, Okay.

1185
00:53:26,420 --> 00:53:28,810
Well, we've got a positive
vote for minivans.

1186
00:53:28,820 --> 00:53:29,880
So, all right.

1187
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:33,080
I would like to thank you
for joining me today, Ahmad.

1188
00:53:33,140 --> 00:53:35,270
This has been wonderful.

1189
00:53:35,270 --> 00:53:39,069
I appreciate everything that you
shared and wish you all the best

1190
00:53:39,069 --> 00:53:44,280
of luck with Mercury and your
investing and your soon to be renamed

1191
00:53:44,320 --> 00:53:46,480
podcast and of course your family.

1192
00:53:47,100 --> 00:53:48,680
So thank you very much
for taking the time.

1193
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:49,260
I appreciate it.

1194
00:53:50,130 --> 00:53:50,670
Immad Akhund: Thanks Adam.

1195
00:53:50,700 --> 00:53:53,289
Thanks for the thoughtful questions
and hope everyone enjoyed that.

1196
00:53:54,260 --> 00:53:58,870
Adam Fishman: Thank you for listening to
today's conversation with If you enjoy

1197
00:53:58,890 --> 00:54:03,190
the show, please subscribe, share, and
leave me a review on Apple or Spotify.

1198
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:05,920
It'll help other people find this podcast.

1199
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:11,109
Startup Dad is a Fishman AF production
with editing support from Tommy Heron.

1200
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:15,620
You can join a community of 10, 000
subscribers and stay up to date on

1201
00:54:15,620 --> 00:54:16,804
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1202
00:54:17,185 --> 00:54:24,618
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to the Fishman AF newsletter at www.

1203
00:54:24,618 --> 00:54:25,554
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1204
00:54:25,555 --> 00:54:25,865
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1205
00:54:26,295 --> 00:54:27,205
Thanks for listening.

1206
00:54:27,685 --> 00:54:28,494
See you next week.