White Lotus Composer Cristobal Tapia de Veer

00:00:15 Speaker 1: Pushkin, never before as a TV show come along with a soundtrack so incredibly haunting that I couldn't shake it. That's what happened when I first heard the score for writer and director Mike White's HBO show White Lotus. Cristo Baal Tapia deVie is the composer and musician behind all the sounds and the score that ranged from percussive African and Latin instruments to gut role human chance. When I first heard the show's theme that You're hearing now, I was all in. It sounded like some sort of crazy, deranged version of Herbie Hancock's Watermelon Man. Crista Ball Tapia deVie is a Chilean composer based in Canada who studied classical music at the Music Conservatory in Quebec. After dabbling an electronic music production and playing drums in various bands, Vir's first big break as a composer came from his score for the British thriller Utopia. On today's episode, I talked to the vier about how he came up with White Lotus's striking sounds game. He plays the stems from the score and talks about how he initially set out to create a Hawaiian hitchcock sound. De Vier also explains how he created the signature tribal sounding vocals from the show after being summoned to California by Kanye West. This is broken record liner notes for the digital Age. I'm justin Richmond. Here's my interview with Krista Bull Tapia de Vie. How did you get approached even for the show to begin with? They called me in January and they send that script and I love the script. I thought it was one of the best script I've read in a long time. So I took the meeting with Mike and I don't know, he was great, Like he's a pretty easy going guy, at least to me. We talk a little bit. We made some jokes about, you know, doing a Hawaiian Hitchcock and this and that. He didn't want, you know, comedic music, like a typical comedy show music or anything like that. And then I went back to the studio and for about three weeks I was just recording not stop but Hawaiian hitcock. But that was your phrase, that was your way of thinking about it. Yeah, yeah, I told him that. But it's not because of the style or trying to emulate Bernard Herman or you know, anything like that. It's just that he wanted to feel that something might be happening, something, something's bubbling underneath what's happening there, and it feels like somebody's gonna die, somebody is gonna be sacrificed, whatever, anything like that. So I guess I supposed to people's attention to other things that what's obvious. What's interesting for me lately is that, like I've been doing lots of interviews more than usual for this show for the music because people, like you said, people are really I don't know, something happened with the music. Something is touching people about this. And the thing is, I'm really more a musician. I'm going to say that, let's say, a composer, because in the sense that you know, I had this little talk with Mike and then I go to a studio and my brain is processing stuff, but I'm not thinking about any of it. I don't have graphics and designs and calculations about what the music is exactly doing to every character and every moment. And then at the end, you know that this is going to happen and people are gonna feel like this, like it's not a master plan whatsoever. It's really really like super super spontaneous and very fast. And then it's done. And afterwards, when people started, you know, asking me about this, I realized I didn't know what you say. So there wasn't like a thought about doing things a certain way. There's, for example, the voices. I don't know, like the lead voices. I wanted the lead vocals to feel like just a human singing. But there is some processing, but it's not a processing that you feel like. It's a digital processing like auto tune or whatever. It's gonna it's gonna make you feel like you know this sound. You know this from pop music. You have all these auto tune notes that are all very straight and perfect and stuff. So we are used to that digital sound now, so I didn't want to go with digital effects. For example, I was changing the pitch or the voice by changing the speed, which is the oldest trick in the book. Like you have tape and just played the taipdown and you have a lower note. That's the basic idea. I think it's less detrimental to a natural voice, at least for me for what I needed to do. I mean so you have these singing voices that are doing stuff that if you try to sing it, you're not gonna be able to because there's something weird happening, Like there's something not human about it. Because I change the notes in a way that a person couldn't do. So you feel the raw quality. There's jumps, there's jumps in the yeah, the dramatic jumps. Yeah. So you have this quality that it's a real voice. It's not a you know, like a robot sample or something. But there's something that you can you can't point your finger on, but you feel there's there's something weird happening. And maybe that's upsetting too in a way, because I'm wondering if people feel about that the way they feel. You know, when you watch a horror movie and you have a character that's a human, but then you realize there's something weird about that human, that it's not quite a human. There's something odd, And this is actually more scary than monsters. I think in general. It's when you when you believe there's something like you and it's not like you at all. It's something that's siding there. There might be some danger or whatever. Yeah, how did you decide on the instrumentation. Like so when you leave that meeting with Mike and you kind of leave with Hawaiian Hitchcock sort of mind, did you immediately know what instruments you wanted to maybe use or did you have to kind of lay out some and try and kind of a process of elimination on the instrument It was more by addition, I would say, in the sense that I just started recording some shakers for a while, and then after when I had those shakers, then I can play something else. So I'm jamming with myself, just gonna play some other drums, and then when I have those drums, I'm gonna again start over, and I'm listening to everything I recorded previously, so it's basically just jams. And I believe everything I recorded in the end I did use because once I had all these percussion beds and whatnot, I could decide whether I might need a little bit of pianos later on or just a little whatever other instruments. Maybe I don't know. Maybe it's because we didn't have much time. It was very it was very fast, so there was not much thinking and I wasn't in a mode where I'm gonna you know, I'm gonna try something for a while and maybe it doesn't work, so I'll try something else. In this case, it was it has to work. Like I'm recording all this stuff and in my mind this is working, like all the time, whatever I'm doing, it's just working, and I'm moving forward. That's not how you typically work, I imagine, right, it depends. I mean, if you have lots of time, courses, lots of procrastinations, which is not good either. So I suppose in general, I mean, any composer in general would complain not having the time to do what they want to do, being too rush or something. But I think there's something good about it for me in any ways, this feels a lot more spontaneous. I think that that it could be if I spent a year in the studio with like, you know, do the usual thing you call the best musicians in town and whatever, and it's just everything takes forever and you're doing this pristine recordings and stuff there was. This is very homemade. It feels very right. It feels uncorrected, unproduced. Were you happy with it when you turn it in? Oh? Yeah, yeah, I was really happy. I was happy that they that might liked it first, because I mean there's a there's an adjustment period where the first time people get tracks for their shows, it's a bit scary. You don't know how they're going to react, and they need time to digest, which is normal, particularly if he's you're sending non standard music. But in this case, it went really well. And and there's only Mic I mean there's only one person. I mean, he's the creator of this thing and he's doing everything. So I mean there are other executives and and whatnot, but what I mean is like he was the main focus, I mean what he wanted. So it's it's faster and much easier. And I mean unless you have a problem with that one person then then then then that's it. But uh yeah, it's much easier not having that, you know, twenty five cooks in the kitchen. We'll be right back with Crystal Ball t happier to hear. After a quick break, we're back with more of my conversation with Crystal Ball. Tapia Devier. So, when you sat down to create the sound and the music for the show, what's the first thing you recorded that actually made it to the final mix. It's probably the second piece of music on the show when the show starts, like this old school music, something jazzy, and then right after that we see a big shot of the of the hotel and that is like a very loud track with the same voices that you find in the theme, but is more of a wild tribal thing. You wanted to show you what the voices are. Please, So okay, So that's that's the lead from the theme. And then so this in particular that beat there, So that's that's the first voices I tried, and I put it on that track and it worked and they liked it. What was the thought that led it? Was it like, I want to play with odd vocals, which is strange voices. There is this tribal aspect, this war cry aspect, all of these things that fit well with what we wanted to convey with this show. So it could be associated with many things. You know, it could be natives that have been abused forever, but you know, the white privilege and everything, so could be that there's some of that. It could be some kind of ritual, ritualistic kind of singing. There is that aspect. There is the pop aspect that is purely esthetic that to me, when when I found this way of playing those voices, to me, it felt like that's it, Like that's a hit. I mean, I don't know, I don't know I hit like a radio hit or something like that. But it's a hit in the sense that the way he hits you, it hits people. I can tell that this doesn't effect this something like alien. But at the same time, people are really curious and it's like, wow, what is that voice and stuff? So so it just felt right away like I had found some gold there. He definitely did. Where did the voice sounds come from? So there's this weird story where I met Kenye West at some point. I didn't really meet him. I mean he called me and he bought me a plane ticket, and this was like, I have no idea what he wants, Like it's kennye A West. So this is a couple of years ago, and it's like, okay, well, sure, I thought it was a joke. I mean until I got to it, I thought somebody's playing a trick. When I talked to him on the phone, I said, Okay, this guy sounds like Harrie West, but you never know. I mean, it says so weird. And it's not like I'm producing whatever, you know, the new singer or something. It's just I'm doing these weird projects and stuff. So but I mean, he's he's looking for weird stuff too, so I guess. But anyhow, at some point I got to a lib and I went to his place where he works and everything in Calabasas and stuff. And then I was trying to understand what he wanted. But because this guy, he's always, you know, talking about a million things at the same time. I mean, he was showing me this new Nike shoe and speaking about music and how this Nike shoe relates to music, and it was like a new prototype. And then there's some kids that come from another room with some other prototype. And then we walked to another room and we start looking at all his clothes, the new stuff that he's coming with. And still, you know, all this time, I have no idea what's happening. I don't know why I'm there, why he showed me all this stuff. But anyhow, I did have my laptop and I started to work on some stuff. And my minding is since it's Kennyer West, I was at the hotel and I was trying to find something that is really striking, because if he takes me there, I mean, I'm not just gonna do some R and B beat or whatever. You know. I had to come up with something. And this is what happened, and not not this tune in particular, but I had those voices and I tried to find a way to play melodies that is a really striking thing. And this happened by accident, and I was like at that point I knew that this was like gold and I was Okay, this, I'm gonna show it to Kenny. So anyhow, I was there for like a week and I had to leave, and there worst problems and Kenny started firing people and his lawyers and everything was too long and I had to leave or whatever. It was a mess. Just to say this as like I'm gonna say, it's maybe a month before he came out of the closet as a Trump supporter, So I didn't know about that. I would probably have gone there if I knew, but so it was, there was lots of changing happening in his life and everything. So I just I just left at some point and I was like, Okay, he'll he'll come me back whenever he needs something. I don't know. So I had those voices the system, meaning you know, there's a girl doing stuff, and then I was playing with it with some person stuff, so I could do any harmonizing or whatever. At that point, it doesn't really matter what exactly the melody is. It's just that that system. And then yeah, so this project came out and I was, man, those tribal voices, that's exactly what we need for this. So I just went back to my system there and started finding the right melody and stuff, and that's it. It became that. So that that part Peular Harmony, the last one I show you just now, that's the one I did for Kanye, which he never heard. He never heard it. I can never heard it. So because we did, we never got to somewhere with that. So I don't know what was happening whether so lately I didn't like thinking about that, and it's like, I hope this guy listened to the White Lotos and he's like everybody else, Okay, who's that guy. It's the same guy who made it for you a couple of years ago. It's crazy to think that could have been a Kanye n I would have been perfect for Kanye. Yeah. Can you play that sound again? Can you play thost voices one more time? Yeah? So I'm playing for from the beginning. Was this part part of his Well, no, just this one. I never heard the laughing before. Yeah, because there's so much happening. I guess you know it's in there, in the chaos in there super cool. So once you had that, what was the thought? What was the move? Yeah? The main thing with this show is the percussions. Really, I recorded maybe for two weeks stucking lots of every percussion that I have. So, for example, I think I started with the tombs. So it's like I'm gonna say, there's a maybe a kick drum, a floor tom, and then some indigenous percussions like shaman drums, which are all with animal skins and stuff like that. And I started doing this kind of thing. So I did a bed of this, a lots of different rhythms with only these low drums that are softer and kind of deeper, and then I started adding all kinds of things like this, and then later building so uh, stuff like that. Then I started playing with bottles and flutes and were you playing them actually or was it a sample of someone playing them? Oh? Yeah, yeah, yeah, this is it's all like all that stuff. So the bottles is southing like this. So okay, this is when I discovered how the watermelon man works, because I never thought of water Maryland man until I said, Okay, I'm gonna try this bottle thing. So I do this who and then uh at some point I tried to do this I repeatedly, and I realized I have to breathe a lot, so I do. And when I hear my voice going there, it's like, oh, that's why it sounds like that. That thing. It's just it's just your throat, you know, it makes us sound and then you have this rhythm and it's just natural. And he's like, oh, that's it, that's how that works. So yeah, I just jumped with the bottles and tried to do that stuff. And then the flutes it's similar. Okay, so this this trick is just that. Um, I start maybe four or six flutes to make that that one line. Those the harmonies. Okay, so you can hear me there a little bit of my voice and there is that. But there's some other tracks on the show where you can really hear this kind of and the breathing and everything. So those cover all the anxiety of the breathing and the lacking air and somehow you know, claustrophobic thing. There's lots of that in general in the show. And then have some keys. Okay, so that's the same as it's just adding a little a little bit of color there. And how did you decide on that sound. I'm not sure I wanted a little kind of sky Rickie kind of thing. Um. I suppose it's kind of a riverby Keyboord that just feed with the flutes. But it also sounds like what you might hear if you were like clubbing on a private eye, like a gatabza or something like that, might be like, yeah, a bees with a demented twist. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's an aspect of the score that it's it's very minimalistic, but it's there. Is that there are dance little things here and there, like like this bright clap sometimes when it comes it's almost like a four on the floor. Sometimes on certain versions, I don't know how to call it electronic dancing cheesiness here and there there are some elements of you know, just party rave, whatever you want to call it. But and then afterwards I have some effects in there, okay, some people screaming. Okay, so that's that's just the chaos happening, the birds, people screaming and stuff. And it's not when you hear the song. This is not clear, but he feels like you're somewhere and maybe the people fighting somewhere in the back or you know, stuff like that. Those are like the basic elements. Had you played those instruments before, Like, are those your instruments that like go to instruments in your arsenal percussions? I suppose I always do lots of questions, I think in general, but not as much of this, uh in this was allowed to be more, I would say, maybe a little more tribal, more all out. You know, jungle feeling music, No, not jungle music the style, but like I could make music like as if I was in the jungle. I mean a lot of the instruments are like kind of like African Pigmy have lots of Latin American and African instruments, and lately I've been buying more African instruments because lots of Latin Americans instruments have a background in Africa obviously. So for example, in this show, I use a quicker which is Latin America from South America, but there is an African version of that Latin America. The one we use that it's made of metal and we used it like ba Tokada and all these big festivities. So it's a really it's a loud instrument that sounds like a monkey. Basically, it's like a monkey talking or screaming and stuff like that. So lots of the monkey sounds in the show are not samples from monkeys, but it's this instrument. I mean, all these congress like for example, Congress is it's the most like you know, Cuban and Latin American thing you can think of. But but I have like other versions from from Africa and from other instruments like they Don't Don't which is uh which which are like huge congress with skins on both sides, and it sounds even more raw that the Latin American version. I have lots of stuff like that that I use in here that are not I suppose that are not Hawaiian. But that served the purpose, which wasn't to try to make like Hawaiian music or or it's not a Hawaiian so sound at all. Some people have talked about that that they feel like it's so cool with the music, you feel like you're in Hawaii, but it's really not. But it's more about the people who are there, their wild minds, you know, they're the dangerous minds, all that stuff. It's more an imagery like that. It's a lot in the writing too, and just in the way the characters are played and the tension between them. But the music definitely propelled it the same way, like you know, when you're watching Vertigo, it's Hitchcock's you know, you might know something's going to happen, but just when the start of the movie, if you didn't know it's Hitchcock, it could go anyway. And the music really drives that you're viewing experience, you know. Yeah, I think Mike's a genius really, whatever that means. I mean, there's so many definition of genius for me personally my experience. I think he's a genius because of what he allows to happen. I felt like even he when he felt a little bit scared about something that I would say sand or whatever, he was always allowing me to try stuff and maybe to be wrong about something, to make mistakes or whatever, or to do really weird things because he's looking for, you know, interesting, interesting ideas. And then sometimes some people you're gonna try something, and when you're even starting something, they're gonna put you down. It's like, no, no, no, don't think like that. No that we're not doing this. And it's like it's like we need to go somewhere and then talk about it and then move and then more further and stuff. But I have to say, it's really weird. It's like he knew what the music was doing and how people were going to react, and he somehow told me that the people, you know, this reaction I've been seeing to the show and to the music. It's like he told me that in advance that that was going to happen. And I have no idea how how he would know that. What do you say, Well, like that, it's crazy what the music is doing, and people are gonna go crazier and they're gonna they're not gonna stop calling you and this and that, and I was like, for me, in my head, I was trying something. I was kind of happy, but I was also expecting I don't know how people are going to feel about this. Maybe it's so weird. This has happened to me in the past, where proposing something with the music and I get this idea that people are going to destroying me. They're gonna say that I destroyed the show and whatnot. So this was one of those shows. I was like, maybe it's cool, or maybe it's really really completely not the moment for this. It's not gonna work. I don't know, man, all this percussion stuff. I really yeah, I had no idea, but he seems he's in more confident than me. We'll be back with more from my interview with Crystal Balls Happy at the viear After a quick break, We're back with Crystal Balls Happy at the Year. Since the shows come out, are you getting more work and as it work that you want to do or yes? Short answer answer is yes, Um, it's been overwhelming. I'm gonna say, and I'm kind of adapting to it because it's like people when crazy, really I mean, and when I say this is like literally I have some people. We have me and my manager we have to block because we were getting like like it was a us. I like they started like straight to me, like some agents. I'm speaking those kinds of people. Yeah, and it's like it's like you're telling me, okay, I don't have the time for this. I'm okay, I don't need help. And then right away it's like texting you one text after the other. It's like you have some kind of you know, a fuck up partner that's gone psychle It's like, what's happening these people? So that's one thing. And then I have all the Marvels and Disney and all the people that I've never worked with because myself it's you know, it's too weird or too exiotic, I don't know exactly. But now they everybody's interested, and I have all these people and stuff, and I'm refusing everything just because I'm on a movie right now. And that's it. So one of the things I'm confronted with now is that, you know, I don't do the composers thing of having a team of you know, writers and composers and uh, you know helpers that sometimes they do all the job for me and sometimes you know, if it's a very big project, you know, maybe it's more me. So I don't I don't understand that stuff. That's that's really to me, that's just greed, but it's it's like beyond greed. Yeah and yeah, I would love to be a multimedia like whoever does you know Batman and stuff, but I'm not a manager and not a boss. I don't want to do that, and I want to have to check you know, all these people that are working for me and navigating all this stuff. This is just it's super weird and I'm never going to that. I don't think I'm going to do this, you know, five movies in a years, Like, I don't understand how these people they do that. You see this IMDb from composer and they have like two hundred credits. It's like it's so weird to me. So I'm trying to explain to them that, you know, it's thank you so much, and I'm not refusing because I don't want to do your project or anything. It's just that. But for them, this is really alien. They don't understand why I'm refusing stuff because nobody refuses. They just they take everything I did, do everything, and it's like to me, it's it's a little bit McDonald's. It's like I don't want to do chain work or something I want to do me. Everything is housemade, it's homemade, and it's like I'm doing everything. It is a little bit slower, but I don't. I do one thing, the one project, and that's it and then the next project. What's cool though, is that it seems like a something happening which I've never seen since I started doing this. It's like I started somewhere with Utopia where I'm kind of like a weird punk latino that is doing some weird stuff but it makes lots of noise. Utopia, even though it wasn't like a hit like in numbers, was a hitting away because to this day, anybody anywhere where I'm in London or in la or whatever, people will speak about that. They're gonna tell me, man, that that show, every department, the art, the music, it was. It was really something so and now the White Lotus seems to have done that in the US because the Utopia was more of a UK thing, right, But now with the White lotos is it feels like I'm less of an alien now. But they're calling me because that's the thing, Like somehow it's becoming the thing that they want to be completely surprised completely. They want something else, Like it's like, all of a sudden, the tire of this Hollywood sound. They don't want that anymore. They want in your face, they want melodies. They want, you know, the music to be a character. This isn't that. And of course maybe they're excited. You have to see if that's possible, because of course, you know, with people putting lots of money into projects, then they hear something weird and they become scared and they say, oh wait a minute. Yeah, a lot of pressure with that. A lot of pressure comes with that. If you can be the one though, to bring you know, melodies back into this and just really d mcdonaldize, you know, yeah, d mcdonaldiz. That's that's a true man. Be appreciated. Yeah, definitely, Thank you so much for taking the time to do this, man, I really appreciate it now. Prob thanks to Cryst of Balls. Happier to be here if for taking us the stems first thing for the show White Loads. You can hear his work by checking out at playlist we made on Broken Record podcast dot Be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast. We can find all of our new episodes. You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is produced helpfully a Rose, Jason Gambrel, Martin Gonzalez, Eric Sandler, Jennifer Sanchez, and with engineering help from Nick Chaffey. Our executive producer is Me and LaBelle. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others, some Pushkin Industries consider becoming a Pushnick. Pushnick is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and uninterrupted ad free listening for four ninety nine a month. Look for Pushnick exclusively on Apple podcast subscriptions, and if you like the show, please remember to share rate in the US on the podcast. Our themis Expect Henny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.