Vagabon: Fresh Find

00:00:08 Speaker 1: Pushkin like her, Moniker suggests Leticia Tamco, who records under the name Vagabond, is trying to find a musical place to call her own. When Vagabond was thirteen, she and her family moved from Cameroon in West Africa to Harlem. She learned English in part by watching reruns of The Fresh Prince of bel Air and identified with the outsider sentiment heard and the emo and pop punk on the radio and TV in their early two thousands. Like many children of immigrants, Vagabond was encouraged by her parents to become something practical, like an engineer, but by seventeen she was writing songs and teaching herself to play guitar, and would sneak out at night to play shows at DIY punk spaces in Brooklyn, and only a few years later was recording and putting out songs. She's been completely immersed in music ever since. Her newest release, the self titled Vagabond, has been praised by critics at The New Yorker and Pitchfork. She's also toured with Courtney Barnett, Angel Olsen, and Brittany Howard. I did this interview recently in La with My Right hand producer Leah Rose, who's been working on Broken Records since the beginning of the year. She's a DJ music journalist who spent almost a decade as an editor at Double Xcel. When Lee and I sat down with Vagabond in La she was in the throes of writing songs for her third album and talked to us about some of the writer's blocks she was experiencing. Plus, she talked about her early experiences with music and Cameroon and why she sometimes wants to give it all up to write code instead. This is Broken Record liner notes for the digital Age. I'm justin Richmondon. Just a quick note here. You can listen to all of the music mentioned in this episode on our playlist, which you can find a link to in the show notes for licensing reasons, each time a song it's referenced in this episode, you'll hear this sound effect. All right, enjoyed the episode. Here's Leah Rose and myself in conversation with Vagabond. What type of music do you remember playing in your house when you were growing up. We played a lot of Michael Jackson. My parents were obsessed with Michael Jackson, and so was everyone you know where we lived, which was in Yellow and Day at the time, like everyone all over the world was obsessed with Michael Jackson, so we listened to a lot of him, and I would say that that's the most like contemporary like Western music that we listened to. We did listen to a lot of more like traditional West African music. Mani Diebungo was a huge one, like he's so beloved in our in our like all over but really like he's a star in our country. We listened to a lot of that. But most of the music that I listened to is like gospel music. My grandmother's a choir director, so a lot of the my like, my relationship to music was like at church, and so we'd listen to a lot of that and a lot of like passed down like traditional folk stuff that my grandmother would sing around. And then what was the first time that you really remember connecting to music. I don't really know how to tell kids ages, so I don't even know how old I was. But there there's this like photo of me that exists in my parents' house. That's me in the middle of like a group of maybe like fifteen adult women that were all my mom's friends and they would get together every Sunday. They would say, they would wear the same like traditional like African dresses and they would just sing and play music and I would get in this circle. So this photo is me getting in the circle and just like taking my go at it. I mean the photo helped me. Remember. I don't actually like remember, but I was so young that I think that's the first time that I really had a connection with music. Was it a church thing or what was the group about it? It It was like, you know in French you call it like a reunion, um, but I don't really know. It was almost like the only thing I could equit it to is like sorority, but they are all They were all like women with kids, you know, so it was more of like a like a community thing. And maybe they all went to church. I have no idea. How did all the kids come together too with that? No, no, it was only the parents, Yeah, kids at home. But since my mom was hosting, I was I was like able to like peek into into their world. And you were singing and dancing. Yeah, yeah, which is wild. So how do you think about that now? Seeing that photo? Are you like, I'm destined to be performing. Yeah. I mean my mom brought it up to me and was like, you know because she she, like everyone was a skeptic, including myself, Like what like, I like, what is like that's not a thing? Um? So yeah, like what does that mean? Even though when I think about it, that's that's what they were doing. They just weren't calling it that. Like there was harmonies going on, there were there were like drums going on, but they never called it playing music. They never called it like we are musicians. They were just like doing you know, like harmonizing is not something that everybody's doing in their household, you know, but no one really saw it as that. So I think my mom kind of connected the dots in the last like year, Like I think this has been something you've been interested in a long time. Is anybody else in your family music all at all? Not that I know of, but they must be like was your dad doing like was your dad singing and stuff around the house? Also no, my but my dad has bragged about like singing on some jazz albums that coincidentally no one knows the name too. So I don't know. Yeah, I don't know if it actually happened or if he was like I used to dabble. I don't know, but my dad was a dancer when he was younger. Um, but they don't really like they rarely talk about that, you know, they rarely bring that up as like anything artistic. So to me, I have to kind of dig really hard in my memory to kind of to like to see the threads of music because it's not a thing that they ever really took on as a as an identity. Yes, are they musical people now or not so much? No, they like music, but not not really. Like my mom thinks that I make country music. So that's kind of like like like that's that's that's where we're at, Like why country because I play guitar? Oh, that's it. That's just she's like guitar country Okay, So you know, and that's kind of cool for me that they have no idea and they don't you know, they don't like go to shows on their own or any or buy albums or anything. How did it become the thing for you then? I mean I've always been I've always been pretty obsessed with it. I used to be like eleven, twelve years old. I used to be online like looking up like studios and calling people like and my mom was like, you need to stop calling strangers, but I would like call studios. I would call whoever's phone number I can find. That was like like attached to a music thing and be like, I want to play music, how do I submit a demo? Like just being weird. So I've just kind of been like always interested, but no one around me had accessor or like the knowledge to guide me in any direction or to like even know what to tell me. You know, did you ever meet like a musical mentor at any point, or someone who you knew was a musician and just sort of like just got as much knowledge as you could out of that person. No, I've I literally did not have anyone that I can talk to about this stuff until I started doing it. Like there was no one around me. You know, I'm a kid, so like everywhere I'm around there is everywhere my parents want me to be around, And so I wasn't I wasn't really around anyone who played music or who listened to music in a way. Just this was like so not a part of my life. What was your exposure to live music when you were a kid? Um? I mean apart from church. There there was nothing. It was church and that was it. I used to love going to church. When when we moved to the US, like my mom started taking us to a church in Harlem Um called Abyssinian Church, and I used to I mean, that is my favorite place to see a show to this day. Like that choir made me feel like music is the single greatest thing in the world. And I would go to church like really like religiously no point intended um to see that choir and to see to see them, and that church is so important in my life. Like that's where I like found my scholarship to go to engineering school. That's where like that church was kind of like I was. I was a very much like a viewer of the church. Like I wasn't like a part of it in any way. I wasn't. I just like went and I sat in the back and I just like listened and um, So that is my relationship to live music. And until I hadn't seen a live show other than going to church and seeing choirs until I played a live show. So and then when you moved to the US and you went to that church, how is the service different than the services you were used to. It wasn't that different. Actually, you know, it was a Abyssinian's a Baptist church, so it's you know, mostly black people, and it's like the music is so like alive and it's so rich, and it's so I went to Catholic school for high school, so like I know what Catholic, I know what Mass is like, and I know what like a Baptist church is like. And I know what a church in Cameroon is like. And I would say that the church I went to in Cameroon is more similar to a Baptist church than it is to a Catholic church. You know, you get up, you like are interacting, You're like letting it take you. Well, I's curious because I was wondering if you know, if you started because you got a guitar, you're sort of get interested in music, playing music and you got a guitar. Well, I guess not till seventeen, but I mean we're writing songs in French early on, or I was writing already in English because I was listening to music in English. So I was listening to like, um, whatever was on the radio at that time. Um. When I first started kind of like wanting to write music. It was like pop punk on the radio and like like alternative like Levine, not even Avril Levine, um Blink one eighty two, but but even like like less of the stuff that has even held up no shade to these bands, but like like may Day Parade, like yeah, that sounds very like Warped Tour kind of bands. I was obsessed and I was like so um, I was like really into All Time Low and like Forever the Sickest Kids. I don't know, but I was very into. I was very into those bands. Um do you remember? Can you put yourself back into that mindset? What was it about that particular kind of music that you loved? It was the screaming, like it was the It was like, you know, you're like a teenager and you're angry, and no one had told me about like Rage against the Machine. Ione told me that there was like cool cool shit out there like mentor Yeah, I know, no one told me this stuff was happening. So I was listening to the to the stuff that was closest to that, but on the radio, because that's what I had access to. Like when you don't know anyone who's going to tell you about the like the record store or like um or rage or system of a Down or whatever. Like before anyone could tell me about that, Like there was All Time Alow on the radio, there was Avril Levine on the There's Fiefie Dobson who kind of changed my life. Who's that? Who was? Like she was like the black woman who was on MTV like like playing guitar and like singing that kind of music. And there was really no I was really not seeing any black girls or any black women doing that kind of music like on TRL or on MTV or and she she was that and so like that's kind of what I that was like the first time that I was like, oh my god, music is so cool. I want to play guitar. So did you start dressing differently at that point? Um? Yeah, I mean I definitely had like the swoop over bangs and like the dark eye makeup. Yeah, like you know I did that for sure. It's fine. I survived. I had I had a phase. Man, it's so funny. Yeah, when was the first time you actually went to a live show? Uh? The first time I went to a live show, I guess technically my first one was the first show that I played, which was in twenty fourteen at the Silent Barn in Brooklyn, New York. I knew that the Silent Barn was a place that had like like community built in and that was the place that I can start learning how to play. And so I was like looking at their calendar and I was like, Okay, Like, I wonder if I can hit up the bands instead of hitting up Silent Barn because they don't know who I am, Like, I'm not, I'm not like anything or anyone. So I'm going to hit up the bands and send them my song. So that's what I did. I hit up the the band out of Massachusetts and I said, Hey, I just put out this song. Can I open the show? And they were like yeah, whatever, And had you been to the venue before? No? No, no, how terrified? How terrified? I'm scared? Just scaring that story. Yeah. I mean, I think I'm more afraid now of things than I was back then. I was just like, what do I You know, I had written maybe like a handful of songs by then, and I knew that I was practicing them. So I was just going to do what I did to practice. I don't know I just did it. Did it feel different? Because I mean, I imagine at home, you weren't practicing with like a microphone, right, that must have felt really different when you get up. Yeah, I mean it's it was very different. It was very jarring. Um, but I mostly wanted to be good enough that the other musicians thought that I was good enough. Like that's who want to impress them? Yeah, that's like kind of what the the objective was. Like, I wasn't even thinking that other people would be listening. I'm just like, but if the other people think that I am doing something that like maybe i'm doing like maybe you'll fit in or you're one of them, yeah, or like or like or I'm on the right path or like this makes sense that I'm here. Like maybe if if no one could tell that I've never done this before, I think I'll be Okay. You know, did you feel powerful? I did? I did. Yeah, it's weird. It's it was a it was a weird show. But one thing I have never been was afraid. And that includes being afraid of embarrassing myself, Like that includes being afraid of like being bad or because at that point I had I had like I had given up a lot to even be there, So I was like, who in the same I wanted to impress these people, but I also didn't care because I had to way different life than everybody else. So I was just very like I meet some validation that like I could do this, but I also am going to do it regardless, if that makes sense. Yeah, so have you given up maybe a path in life that you thought you were going to take At that point, you had already made up your mind that this is what I'm gonna do. Yeah, I had made up my mind to myself. I hadn't to hold my parents that had I hadn't told anybody else in my life that because I understood that it would sound crazy. Like, you know, I'm an engineering student. That is clearly a path that is pretty much guaranteed. Like you know, they say that you don't know if you get out of school and you have a job. But like in technology and like engineering, you have a job, like you can you can go get a job that pays you like seventy thousand dollars when you're twenty two, and you could be all right, you're very stable. It's very stable, and it sounds really good. Yes, it's very impressive. Yeah, and your parents want to tell everybody that you can what you're doing. Yeah, especially I mean especially you know parents who came here and work to give you an education exactly right, exactly. So I was like already knew that I would be doing that, but I was like, let me make sure I have something to show before I blow my whole life. And then who were you collaborating with back then? Was there anyone who you would sort of like play stuff for get feedback from? Yeah, I had very early on before Infinite World, I had a friend who was also an engineering student, and he had like an emo emo band, and he was the only one that was around me that like played guitar and like played loudly and like screamed and stuff, and so I would I would play him early on my songs and in the very very early iterations, like that first show, he played it with me um, and I wouldn't really get feedback. I wasn't really interested in because I didn't really even know. I didn't want. I've been really adamant about people shaping me and like into early of a stage. There were so many things that I that that I knew that I would become better at that, like only I have insight on the vision. Like so, so there was like a lot if the notes were based on like my current self. I didn't really I knew that I was so new to it that there was bound to be progressed. So and what songs were you playing then? Um? I was playing just a lot of songs ended up on my first album. A lot of the songs from Infinite Worlds are from like twenty fourteen. Wow, um, they're some of the Some of them are the first songs that I've written, songs like Cold Department, Um, Sharks aka them the Embers, And then there are a few that that, um we're on the EP before Infinite Worlds that I was playing too. Would you mind playing Sharks? Would you mind playing the Embers? Oh? Sure, Yeah, I was waiting for that next. Sorry, sorry I haven't I haven't practiced them in a long time. It sounds so good. But that's that's that. We'll be back with our conversation with Vagabond. After a quick break, we're back with more from Vagabond. Just incredible. That's so early on that you know, that's so early on you had a vision. Yeah, and that you were so confident. Yeah, yeah, I mean it seems like you're still sort of have that same philosophy. With the new album, you did pretty much everything completely on your own, made almost every single instrument, produced every song. Now it seems like that was very intentional. Yeah. I would say everything that I do is intentional, maybe even sometimes to a fault. Like I just want to be really good, and I want to be respected and and I have this like urge to earn it, you know what I mean, Like like I don't want to just like put my name on something. I want to like have it be like real. I want to know that I could produce a record. But at the end of the day, like I'm really glad that I did that. I'm really glad that I know how to do that, and that whatever whatever this album means now or later, like I know that it's important for like my trajectory as as a musician. Would you ever consider working with a producer? Do you do you like do you like being your own producer and kind of the pressure that comes with that also, I mean I like it, but I don't know if I could do this shit again. Like I I think that you know, this last self titled record is my second album, and it's not just like my second album on a label. It's not just like my second album as Vagabond. It's my second album period. Like it's the second body of work I've made, and so it's still really early on for me, and I still want it to be like, like to know what I was doing, even if I have access to hire anybody, like, I want to have that knowledge and then I can kind of like open it up a little bit. So now I feel like I'm in a stage where I can like go as far as like co producing. How do you think about the second one? I mean, it's it's like your newest record, but it's been it's been a couple of years and you're writing the new one now, so it kind of it's behind you in a way. Yeah, it's a little bit more people discovering it still, right, Yeah, I think I'm like I honestly, I go in and out if I'm like going to be all the way honest sometimes I'm like I used to when it first came out, I was like I killed that shit. That was so good, And now I'm kind of like did I Like, I don't know, thank you, it is really good. I just I think it's weird. I think I'm still kind of coming to terms with doing something that was that different from from what I was doing before. And I'm not sure if it's I think it's part of a larger story and it's kind of like dot dot dot, like it's part of a larger thing which will be my career, um, but like on its own. So I'm pretty confused about it. You know, do you feel like you want to go back to the kind of more the sounds of the first one or um continue sort of is there going to be like a when the third one comes it will be like, oh wow, there is a sort of yea. Honestly, I feel like the third one is where I need to like pick a lane essentially, which may not be true, but I'm just gonna be real, like this is what's going on in my head about like, Okay, I made an indie rock record, and I made a record that's not that, and now I don't really know. I'm now trying not to think about what kind of a record I'm making. I'm just I just want to write songs and I just want to like put those songs on an album, So I'm just kind of like, I'm a little confused. Do you think that's more for you so you can classify yourself. No, it's fully because like outside sources are in my head, like not like or when people write about your music. Yeah, it's like it's like I don't really I don't really read my press unless it's like the New Yorker, thank you very much, but but like im what a black I'm like, I'm still confused. But the New Yorker has approved um. But I think that I get pretty confused once it goes out there and it's like seen in a certain way, and I'm like what wait. I was looking at the comments on YouTube for the water Me Down video. Lord are they bad? They are so great? Okay, it's like overwhelmingly positive. Okay, good, you should read them if you're ever feeling that I'm scared. I can't anything negative. I was like, oh, it is so encouraging as it goes down in the YouTube comments, people are vicious, but it's the only I will say. The times where I feel the most sure of what I've made is when I'm performing, because that is the only time that I'm interacting with people who are um, they don't even have to say anything to me, but just energetically they're letting me know where in this together. And I don't feel like I just have like press and like numbers in my inbox and like, you know, like but when I'm sitting at home writing, like that's my thread to what is going on with my records. So it's like it's it's very different when I'm on tour and I'm like going to I'm like going to places and seeing people and be like holy crap, like what And that's when it feels like, Okay, we're all right. Yeah. What does it feel like to when you're performing life to look down and have people just like looking at you with love in their eyes? Uh? I don't know. It's pretty embarrassing. I have this thing where if I open my eyes for too long while performing, I will like sing a bad note like like it gets too real, Like it gets so like, so I have to like look when my eyes are open, I have to look right past everybody. So you know, I don't I don't spend much time at the merch table anymore, but that's really where I got to talk to people and that's where I got to like hang out with people in a way that was like, you know, we're on the same level because I think, I don't know, I don't know if I'm supposed to be into the whole, Like I'm more elevated than you think. But it kind of freaks me out a little bit. So my favorite line on the last album from every Woman is all the women I meet are tired? Where did that come from? Um? It's like loosely referencing a poem by Naira Wahid And it's in this book called Njema that I really enjoyed, And it's just a it's just a a like a line that I think like unites a lot of people. It's it's one that a lot of people can understand. So do you want to play a little bit of that, Let's do it. We'll be back with more from Vagabond after the break. We're back with the rest of our interview with Vagabond. What part of your music are you enjoying the most so far? Is it the songwriting, between the songwriting, the recording, the performing. Right now, I'm enjoying I think performing is number one, and then recording has become number two. Songwriting is just kicking my ass lately. But if you asked me like last year, I would have said I enjoy songwriting. But that's I'm I'm writing now, So I'm that's like where I'm like emotionally like getting a beating all the time. So is it hard because you're running out of things to talk about or you can't find ways to express things? No, I it's hard because more people are watching, so the pressure is on. Yeah, and I'm trying, and I'm like I had this thought. I was like, what if I just like got a job somewhere and I didn't think about music all the time. I don't know, but I was like, what if I just like, what if I just like was a coder like and then just it's like but it's almost like self protect. It's like I want to go back to the time and again. This is so I feel like I'm in therapy right now. This is not this is not a real thing. This is me freaking out. Like this is me like writing an album and freaking out like that's when we're talking. But it's I want to like not think about music twenty four seven to a point where it's like insane, you know. Yeah, like maybe I'll go volunteer somewhere and like do that for like four days a week so that something else is occupying my time besides me and my music, because you just don't want you don't want music to feel like work. Yeah, I don't want it to feel like it's the only thing that I know how to do and it's the only place that I hold my like all my eggs, you know. I want to like yeah, yeah, that that seems a little dangerous, and so I want to like I want to, Yeah, I think I'm just gonna volunteer somewhere, like yeah, like play with Kenny, yeah, like like yeah, like please like right now, there are so many things that I could do with my time instead of sitting there and being like, oh, like I never feel like, you know, it doesn't matter what you do, so don't stop, like that will matter. No, I don't plan to do. What do you feel naturally drawn sort of like writing about mostly mostly it's sad, and I think that's because of how I like started writing songs, and like, you know, a lot of people write from that space, a lot of people, but like I can't write a song about I haven't been able to write a song about being happy or like so happy I had to write a song Like it's usually like so mad or so sad that I have to write a song. Um, And that's just kind of like what my first songs were about was like all like grappling all this stuff that was confusing. So I think that that's like currently and up until now, has been where where I draw the most like emotion from. I think songs about hardship, suffering, heartbreak might be more interesting than happy songs hot take. Yeah, no, I mean I I'm biased, but you know I'm away. I'm always drawn to like super sad songs. Yeah, I mean me too, Yeah, I have, I have been in the past, Like those are the songs that I like. And it's weird because I also listened to a lot of pop music that I'm that is not like devastating, you know. Um, But I think because I've just like, oh, like I had a very sad time like when I was a teenager. That that's you know when we're talking about like listening to pop punk and yeah, exactly an emo and like all that stuff like that's it's not so much that I related to the content of their lyrics, but it was like the emotion um so, like even if it's a happy song, like how it emotes has to kind of be like forceful and your great. Yeah you know. So, is there anybody that you consider to be just a musical genius m who you're just completely in awe of. Well it changes all the time, obviously, but right now I'm pretty obsessed with Roy Orbison. Yeah, Like, look what is it about him? I mean just the drama, the like the it's grand and it's like really incredible vocalist and the songs are great, and it's just kind of this this like type of singing that makes me like I'm just super um interested and impressed and like I want to know everything about him these days. I heard a story about him that when he sang, he barely opened his mouth. That see that's classic crooner. I love it. I love it. I'm so jealous. I don't get what people talk about. Oh it's my royal orbits, Yeah beautiful, Oh my god, And I like it's so I've been playing um that song crying like can you do that? So good? I wish I let me not embarrassed myself. It's so it's so good. It's a dramatic song. I'm saying the sad drama like that's what makes a good song. I'm here for it. And that's the thing. It's like it's sad, but it still makes you feel good. Yeah. Is there a song that you're trying to write now that you just can't articulate yet? Um, like a feeling you're trying to get at or an experience you're trying to work through. Yeah, I mean they are like a lot, There are a lot of them, But that's usually that writing songs have gotten harder for me. It's I'm definitely thinking more. One thing I'm obsessed with right now is like my songs sounding, my songs reading well without the music, because I've been so I've been so like obsessed with production and arrangement and those things are super important. But like some of my favorite like like mostly folk music, but like are all they just read so beautifully when you just read the lyrics? And what's an example of a song you're thinking of? I mean everything on Joni Mitchell's Blue Um, like Joanna Newsom's lyric. Have you ever read that like without music? Dance right, dance as fuck it is, and and it's masterful actually when you read it and you see all the way I mean, I don't know if she was like an English person, but it's just it kind of just reads like a like a book and it's impressive. And English, being my second language, I just have never really like felt precious about saying something in the most poetic way, like and I'm trying to. I'm trying to just like see what that world is about see see. And Julie Byrne. Do y'all know Julie Byrne. She's amazing. She had a record called Not Even Happiness, and there's a song she had that she has on there called I Live Now as a Singer and it's just like it's just poetry, but it also is an incredible song. So that's been kind of what I've been going through my songwriting. That's wonder if before we got I Know you were going to do like a Joanna Newsom. Yeah, I think you switched it up, right, I think I switched it up. And yeah, I've been kind of obsessing over this song called Reason to Believe by Karen Dalton. Yeah, reason, but I think it goes I think it's a Tim Hardens it is right earlier, it is. It's so good. Um and Corney Barnett and I just recorded a cover of it like two days ago, and so it's like in my head. Yeah, I haven't played the Journeys Win in a while, so should we play that new game to play it? Yeah? That was awesome. Thank you, Yeah, thank you, thank you, Thank you so much for coming by. Yeah, thanks for having me. This was really fun. Thanks to Vagabond for sitting down with me and Leah. I'm playing some music for us. She was all set to head out on the headlining tour across the country, but that's been postponed for the time being. In the meantime, you can hear all of our favorite Vagabond songs by heading to broken record podcast dot com. Broken Record is produced help from Jason Gambrel, Mia Bell, Leo Rose, Matt Leboza, and my Ten Gonzalez for Pushkin Industries. Our theme musics by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond. Thanks for listening.