The Doors: Robby Krieger and John Densmore

00:00:15 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey everyone, Today we have a fun follow up to last week's episode with Johnny Echoes from the band Love. This week we'll hear Rick interview the last two living members of The Doors, guitarist Robbie Krieger and drummer John Densmore, about coming up in the LA rock scene alongside Love, who the Doors idolized and then later eclipsed. The Doors formed in nineteen sixty five and burned white hot until the death of their larger than life lead singer Jim Morrison. They're released six albums in only five years, and then that brief time as a band, The Doors quickly became one of the biggest acts of the sixties. Their antiflower power appeal was accentuated by Jim Morrison's brooding lyrics and keyboardist Raymond zeris frenzied organ Lakes. On today's episode, Rick Ruban talks to Robbie Krieger and John ends More about their tumultuous history with Jim Morrison, who John refers to as a Kama Kazi drunk. Both Robbie and John recall LSD fueled stories from their early gigs with The Doors and the role Acapulco Gold played in Jim Morrison's songwriting process. This is broken record liner notes for the Digital Age. I'm justin Mitchman. Here's Rick Rubin with doors, guitarist Robbie Krieger and drummer John Densmore. Well, thank you so much for doing this. I thought it would be interesting to talk about the album Love Forever Changes, because I love that album and it seems unusual. Yeah. It, first of all, it doesn't sound like even Loves other records. The ones that earlier were more rock, yeah, and then Forever Changes was more acoustic, but classical as well. Yeah. They had some good players on that right too. But you could I mean that's when they were kind of started fighting among them, so right, yeah, you could kind of tell that. It's interesting also that the Beatles were sort of not in a great place when they made the White album with each other, and it's one of the best. There's something about when there's friction in the band's something good. That's why we are so big. Let me tell you, Oh my god, I don't think you guys as having friction again. I don't know anything. It was three against one the whole time. It is Jim, what is he going to do tonight? Oh my god, it's just craziness. Yeah. Yeah. Was he being provocative for the sake of being provocative or he was just being himself? All of the above, Yeah, that was part of it. He liked to, you know, get people's goats, but you guys as well or not sure he would he would like yeah after a while winding. He knew that it wouldn't work after a while with us, but it didn't stop him from trying. I remember when I met I met his sister, she said, you know, my brother growing up was always pressing our buttons. Did he do that to you guys? Testing Let's see what boundary? Where the boundaries are or whatever? What would be an example of something that would happen that would you would find questionable. Let's see, he didn't have a phone, he didn't have a car, so I had a car sometimes adventure, but remember we crash it. We got an apartment, had a place upstairs so he could be there, so we could mind next door because he was on a rooftop in Venice and we just have to drive down there to get him, you know. And he would just stay with different girlfriends every night, so you never knew where he was. But finally we got this place there and there was a place for him right next door that he wasn't around there much. What's interesting also is that both of your bands essentially had lead poets as opposed to lead singers, which is unusual. Yeah. Yeah, I'm trying to recollect when I first saw love and I think it was at Beato Lados and did we go together? Yeah? Yeah, so what year was that, approximately sixty five sixty four? Had they already put out records at that time or no, no, no, no, we were rehearsing. Maybe we would just starting, maybe not even with the doors yet. Maybe it was with Psychedelic Rangers or something. Yeah, but we went out to this club and it was cool because it was you didn't have to be twenty one, because we could never get in anywhere because we weren't twenty one. How old were you at the time, You remember about the eighteen, eighteen, seventeen or eighteen. So anyway, we walk in and their playing and I had never heard a loud band before. These were the loudest band I've ever heard. I mean they had the big amps and shit, and before that I'd only been to folk music, you know, Budding Travis, Josh White Blues, you know, muddy water stuff. I had never heard anything like this. I mean it was fucked, you know, it was cranking and uh that just blew me away. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Was it obvious when you saw them what their influences were. It was a culture shock because here's this black lead singer who he's wearing granny glasses like Roger mcgunn from the Birds psychedelic but at the time, you know Afros and funk, you know, so they're they're electrified folk rock with a black lead singer singing this way out psychedelic reincarnation. It was mind blowing anyway, So you know, this this world we walked into and went wow, Johnny Johnny eccles had this double neck guitar, which I'd never seen one of those before. Yeah, that was incredible too. Well, you know, Okay, so we're playing the London Fog a few doors down from the Whiskey, This Dump and Love is at Whiskey and during the break I go down there and stand outside and just drool over being in that band, and I'm thinking I'm better than that drummer. I think he's a sweet guyop Snoopy, Yeah Snoopy, you know. And actually, eventually on Forever Changes they had studio I think just for one or two songs, because at least there's one one version of the story where I think how Blaine played on just two songs. Yeah, and then the band kind of decided we better get serious otherwise we're not going to play again. I don't know that that's the lords don't correct, that's correct, right? Yeah? And Carol Kay played bass on on a couple too. Wow. Yeah, you know. Dennis Wilson, he didn't mind how playing on the stuff. He was cool with it, of course, yeah, you know. And I was thinking, I'm as good as these studio guys. Why am I not in love? Yeah? And then Arthur, you know, told the head of Electra, Jack Holsman, to see us, which was such a gracious thing to do. And it was it Arthur or Ronnie because Ronnie Harron always says it was her well that she managed him. So and then we skyrocketed past the band. Sorry guys, but that was so they were our idols. Yeah, it's it's it's the reason I wanted to talk to you, guys, is because most people know your band and many people don't know them, and I thought it would be interesting for you to talk about it, and it just gives it gives people an understanding of what you guys saw and the fact that you traveled the world and spread the message of the doors everywhere whereas Love didn't really do that for Love. I don't understand the details, but I understand that Arthur didn't want to really leave Los Angeles very much. I'll give you some details. He chained smoke dope and forever. Changes was just huge in England. It was like Sergeant Pepper time. And he would not get on a plane across They did go over there or one did they think later? I think Mayle, I think when, maybe even when the band broke, may have broken up by that. I think you're right, he might have been doing the hard stuff too by that time. I was afraid to go on the airplane. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, his reluctance didn't help at all. When did you first meet those guys? It's probably I mean, I think I met Brian earlier, but mainly it was at the Whiskey when we finally got the job at the whiskey and they, Yeah, they used to have They were the headline and every other group you ever heard of. So how did that work? What does the house band mean and what does the headliner mean? So we don't have that anymore. We were. We would start off the night, you know, eight o'clock when the place was half full. So you played there every night or six nights, yea. Yeah, we had to join the union. Remember, I think it was nine. We started at nine, played the first set, then the headliner played, then we played again, then they closed. So it was like being an opening you'd be the opening act, but you'd be the opening act for everybody all the time. Yeah. For for about a year for it was you just name them Captain Beefheart, the Birds, Van Morrison, Frank and the first one we did was them Van Morrison's band when he first had Gloria, and we got to be friends with them, and last night we got to play Gloria with them on stage, all of us. Yeah, we left some pictures of that, and that's when I thought his voice was the best ever. You know, just man, Gloria, come on, wow. And then you know when he came over him and played at the whiskey. We got to know him, and he was so shy. Man, he was like worse than Jim, you know. And then one night at a party he came and he was doing some of his new stuff and he did a Brown Eyed Girl, remember, just him and a guitar. He did snippets of astral Weeks too. I was thinking, he's so shy, he can't even talk, but then he grabs a guitar and wow. I would imagine by playing every night the residency probably made you guys really good, Like when you play together, you just get better. Yeah, I was there, and in New York we did the same thing at a place called on Dean's Club. Yeah, fifty nine Street Bridge every night from ninetel two. And yeah, Andy Warhol and all those giant people came later. They remember we started eleven and we go till five whatever, just five sets tonight. Amazing. Yeah, you get good. The thing about practice, it really does go. Oh that's the thing about today groups. They're lucky to get a gig on a weekend. Yes, you know, how can you get good like that? And it's also different practicing in front of people versus playing in a room. It's a whole different thing in front of people. Sure. Yeah, Well, then there's electronics, Jim said a long time ago. Maybe in the future music will be dismade by one guy with a bunch of machines. Did you say that? Yeah? Incredible, there it is. Yeah. And then Stevie Wondered came out with Talking Book a couple of years later, and yeah, and he played the drums on that as well as other shit, Oh my god, amazing. Yeah, those were the days at that time. Will you playing your own material? Where you playing covers? Both in the London fog, We learned Willie and Gloria and crap to get by, and we'd sneak in our own stuff and if the whiskey, i'd say, remember the first set when nobody was there, we'd just do what we call it Latin bullshit number two and we just jam on some Latin stuff and then as people started coming in, we'd lay on them. Unfortunately, the times had changed and you didn't have to do rock hits and you could do your own stuff and then we'd smack them with the end. Did you end with the end every day? Yeah? Pretty much, wouldn't or light my fire would end light my fire. Everybody be dancing, and then the encore would be the end and people would file out quietly, no applause. Holy shit, they were bludgeoned. So great, so great, But you know, I want to jump for a second. I'm thinking of the parallel between Arthur and Jim. I have this theory that a great song it is a wedding between the way the lyrics fit with the melody. And damn, those two guys not only had these incredible words, they're they're stitched to gorgeous melodies. Yes, you know Arthur and Jim. And Jim couldn't play a chord on any instrument, but had he said he thought of melodies to remember the words, Oh my God? And you know roadhouse blues, that's not a difficult melody. But now I'm going to prove why I'm the drummer and not the singer. Before you slip into unconsciousness. That's some hard chord changes. That's not you know, it's like Jazzy and he had it in his head, gifted, yeah, and and he just you know, it's not like he sat down at the piano and picked out the notes. He actually would do a little capoolko gold, and he said he heard a concert in his head. Wow, all he had to do is remember it. Wow. And would those would those melodies always come after hearing the music, or might he sing you a melody and then you'd figure out what the song was? Well, in those early days, it was, you know, he would have the melody in his head, and before I was even in the band, Ray would help him, you know, pick out the drive kind of was etched out before yea, even Hello I Love You was kind of like but when Robbie came along with the band was formed, and then Jim would just sing a cappella and we'd wait, wait, hold it f sharp, okay, go on. And even in the songs that I wrote, he would often change that melody. He couldn't, you know. I would say, okay, sing it like this, you know, and he couldn't do it. You know, he wasn't a musician, so he would do something a little different and it was usually better than what I had thought of. He just naturally had a s and yeah, yeah, like on light my Fire, you know, my my first melody was more like, uh, you know that it will be, but he, you know, he simplified it a little bit and it actually was better. Amazing, And you know, in the very beginning he didn't have that deep baritone. He was so shy, wouldn't face the audience. But eventually, Wow, And you think about other singers who blew their chords and had to have operations and stuff. And Jim could scream from the bowels like he was ripping his throat out. Yeah, but he never had. He did it for five years. If he had continued, I'm sure he never did while we were with him. Never, never, He never lost his choice. I've had so many singers that I've played with over the years who you know, couldn't make it through a whole show. Yeah, especially Doors songs, the keys they're in, they're meant for Jim's his octave range was incredible. It's an interesting thing about there are certain bands, like the Beatles. A lot of people cover Beatles songs. Not a lot of people covered Doors songs so much. But I think it has to do with the nature of the band is so unique that the sound of it is as important as the song. It's like the whole thing is one and if you take you guys out of it, the song doesn't have the same life. Yeah, if you go see these doors cover bands I've never done, that's interest. Well, it's it's it's intimidating filling Jim's leather pants. No, I mean, I mean, okay, so I did La Woman with the La Philharmonic and Chris Martin from cole Play. Yes, and he was He said to me, oh, man, how can I feel Jim's vocal cords? And I don't, don't try or whatever. Yeah, isn't that amazing that he you know, no vocal coaching, nothing, it never sung before us, never wrote a song before us. Yeah, I mean he had the most incredible vocal range and he was always on pitch. Yeah, never had to wait, never sharp or flat. Do you know what singers he liked? Like? Who would you say? He was inspired? Man? Like Delve Like Sinatra? That makes sense though, Like he sings more like Sinatra than most rock singers. You know, he really sang in that the crooner Yeah, the crooner style. Yeah. And you know like Willie Nelson has it too. Yeah, there's a sense of phrasing where you sense the singer is so relaxed and it's effortless, and it is Willie's obsessed with Frank as well. Sure, and it's so identifiable. You hear two bars of Willie or Merle or Jim and you go, that's them. It's nobody else. Now, what was Arthur's influences? Yeah, that's a good any ideas, I don't know. Well, he must have liked the birds because of the glasses things. Arthur was still here, Yeah, and Brian and Jim. Do you know anything about what their relationship was like? Uh? It was got more strange, yes, as time went on. I think, yeah, a songwriter competition kind of thing. Brian had the big hit, but Arthur had all this gorgeous deep stuff, and I think there was some jealousy. They were sure unique group. How the hell did they get together? I wonder how God knows? And they call themselves love incredible. Isn't that beautiful? Really a collectic group of people, you know, And it wasn't a stereotype then you know, the peace sign and love and it was before it was the real deal. You know, it was so ahead of the curve. The people are still catching up. Yeah, you know, like we were on the shoulders of the beat Nicks and then the punks are on the shoulders of the hippies and the Grunges on the shoulders of the punks. So I mean you could say love was a little bit punk, a little you know, you'd also makes sense when you say that you were on the shoulders of the beat Nicks and that both bands had poets. Yeah, that makes sense, like if we keep in mind that the Beatnick era was just sort of what was what had just been going on in the culture. Yeah, so you know, you sense a new wave and and I think Jim said each generation wants to be different from the one before. And so the punks came along and dissed us for burning out, and they were right, but the message was there, the love thing, you know, so I get pissed off one night. You know, people dissed the sixties is failing hold. Civil rights, peace movement, feminism are all seeds planted in the sixties. They're big seeds, so maybe they take hundreds of years for full fruition. So shut up and get out your watering can. And also the soap box. Clearly the world is a different place than it was before the sixties, Like, yeah, that was the turning point. You can you can say what you want about the sixties, not accomplishing all that it meant to do. Yet the world was transformed in the sixties. There's no question we live in a different culture that was all the seeds of the sixties, right, like a renaissance time like the twenties or what I would saying, as you'd think we would have learned. We need another sixties right now, So yeah, it may happen. Yeah, because music is the only thing that we all agree on. Yeah, I love so let's use it to try to patch this mess up. Huh. Going to pause for a quick break, but we'll be back with the doors. Robbie Krieger and John Densmore. We're back with Rick Rubens. Conversation with Robbie Krieger and John Densmore. What was the first gig that you did where you were in the band? Your first gig, first gig was that Hughes Aircraft. It was don't remember Ray's mom worked at Hughes Aircraft or his dad. So they needed a band for some Okay, you know, so well together and we we I can't remember the bass player, but he only had one string on his back. And then Ray was on acid and totally freaked out. He was on a bummer acid trip. I don't know how he even played. I don't remember the gig. You don't remember, no, you black remember? I remember the big warehouse. Yeah, yeah, well the gig was was pretty weird. We played some mingus I think, uh, and Jim tried to sing a couple of things he didn't. We didn't really have any songs worked up, you know, so Jim and I both took speed. I remember that, Oh my god, drug addict. Really the London fog was the first. No, no, no, remember the party were played at my parents, so there was party, but still that counts. Yeah, it's fun of people party at the Isaacson's house near UCLA, and we actually played a set and that was pretty good. Were you on that gig that gay house boat party out of Marina or someone pedrew? I think? And I know on the invitation it said, uh, please remember the band is not part of our group. Don't come onto the band and we're playing and uh, I remember we got the nerve to play a ballad and then everybody started kind of getting close and there was a lot of shuffling down below in the boat, and I remember Ray daring me to go downstairs. Early Doris gigs. Yeah, and then we played a gig for Moonfire. Remember what's Moonfire a gig? Yeah, we played a gig. He had a party down right near where you live, and the uplifters. Well, no, he was up to pag I know he was. But he rented this place right near your house. Moon Fire. Was this heir to something. Yeah, he had a lot of money and he had a huge place up into Panga and he let all the hippies stay there and hang out and stuff. And he was a militant vegetarian. And when we played Miami over right, he brought a lamb on stage, a little little cute little lamb lam and gave it to Jim. Gave it and Jim Jim said, he said, if it weren't so young, I fuck it. Oh. I was gonna say, don't say that, Robbie, but go he did, okay? Or did he really say that or was that just in the movie a joke? Yeah, it was a joke. It's not in the movie. He would say that. I think it is in the movie. I believe me he would really. Wasn't it in the movie. I don't think so. I've seen the movie and I don't remember that line. Well, it's a real quick line, and yeah, if you go check it out again, you hear it. A lot of it's entric folk around. What was the idea of bringing the lamb on stage? Was so cute? Don't eat meat? Yeah? Yeah, he was a vegetarian. Wait before vegetarian? Is it's cool? Yeah? It was kind of a cool guy. Anyway, We played a party for him, and that was pretty early. That was one of our first gigs. I remember having to drag my big standale amp up there. Yeah, we had a VW bus, we slept all the stuff, so we would just get gigs however we could get them, you know. I mean we used to go to all the clubs and beg them to let us play there. I remember, you know, Ray was with Dorothy and in the beach House and Jim and I maybe you tagged along. We'd go to these bars on Hollywood Boulevard that would never have a band anyway, and we'd go in there. Can we play? Would you? Could we? But we wanted to do something, even though it seemed fruitless, and it was a twenty four hour, seven day a week campaign. You know how it is to launch anything creative. Yes, whether it's a book or a movie or what, it's a herculean to sell the damna. Absolutely, absolutely, it's very hard to break through. We didn't even have a manager, I think, until my fire. Yeah, amazing, and it's been downhill ever since. It's also funny that in today's world we don't think of a band of the stature of the Doors playing at house party. It's just fascinating to imagine that world because now when young artists start, the mechanisms are in place for finding an audience and then finding gigs. There's like an industry around it now, whereas then it really was a clean slate. And I remember seeing old film of you guys playing where the sounds it seemed like the sound system wouldn't even fill the places you were, you know, tiny little samp for a vocal mic, you know. Yeah, it's always always hard to hear the vocals. Poor Jim, you know, he never had monitors testament to what a good singer he was. If he could sing like that without hearing himself, I guess they had him at the whiskey. But yeah, I mean I think that was good for building his Yeah, he'd have to something the Beatles talk about was that they would sing their harmonies, going from gig to gig in the van and practice singing, and they were so good at it that they didn't have to hear each other. They'd be able to sing in a harmony because they could never hear each other when they were performing, no kidding. Yeah, wow, And now we have any ear monitors. Different world, you know, I I changed my answer to the question. For years, people would say, well, if Jim was around now, would he be clean and sober? And I go, nah, kama kazi drunk. And now the last few years I've thought about Clapton and M and M and and it's a different time. Yeah. Sure, why if he was alive, he'd have to be sober. Yeah yeah, otherwise he wouldn't be alive. But so Yeah, I like saying that because it's different. Yeah. Well, unfortunately we don't get to have him around anymore. Would be great. Absolutely, we didn't know him and we miss them. Yeah. I mean, you know, you see the Stone still playing and stuff. I get really jealous when I see that. You know, how quickly did it change from being the house band to things getting big? For you guys? It was pretty quick. I mean it was you know, when light My Fire came into that was that was the whole game change. Because before that we put out break on Through as the first single and it didn't do very much. We called up a lot, this is Fred Schwartz, would you please play that break on and then they got on to us. All of our friends would be calling there, because that's how you got on the radio before. You know, you have to have an audience calling in. It's interesting how that song is so admired now. Yes, and then it was a struggle to get it out there because it was just so different. You know, I don't know what starts off with the Bossonova drums, so I mean, nobody's ever done that since Steven. I think Forever Changes might have a Bosonova on it. I think so yeah, yeah, yeah, but you know the way he played Bossonova, no rock drummers even today can do that. Also, I think that the fact that you had a classically trained pianist in the group really separated you from everyone else. It's true, it's a very one of a kind sound. I think the same holds true for maybe the Zombies. You know, I don't want not that I relate the zombies in the doors, but both of you don't sound like anyone else, mainly because of the keyboards. I'm such a featured instrument because like the Rolling Stones usually had someone playing piano in the group more often than not, but it wasn't as much of a focus. It was more of a support instrument. Yes, they had that as well. And then the raised genius of these licks d D WHOA, that's itched on all our brains. Yeah, and it sounds like what are you just saying? That sounds like bach? It is? It isn't. Yeah, I had the chords, these these kind of weird chords, and he just naturally just came up with the with the box to go over it. Yeah, yeah, it is. That was pretty pretty amazing really, And you know, Riders in the Storm do you listen to that solo? It's genius. You know. I've had so many keyboard players that play with me to play Ray stuff, and a lot of them know it like my fire and writers note for note, and but it still never quite sounds like Ray. You know. It's the feel. Yeah, But the funny thing is Ray never played those solos alike the same every night. It was just an improve there was an improvisation, Yeah, it was you know when we recorded that stuff, it was one take and that's just how it was that night. So in addition to the solos being different, how free were the arrangements like might a song go longer live or dependent on the song? The epics and when the music's over. They had big sections where we'd vamp and they would be different every night, and the length would go fuck around with any poem he wanted to, you know, see we'd chase him around. I mean those kind of songs that they would grow every night, you know, because it started off real short, like the end was just a two minute love song when it started, and then as time went on it got longer and longer. And but you know, Robbie and I went to Robbie Shankar's Kanara School of Indian Music and got heavily influenced by that. So the end got this droning. This was even that back then you did this, yeah amazing. Yeah, So that's where that raga had influence came. I actually had a sitar that a traditional city and John had the tambo drums. Wow, And we actually went to the school that Canara School that Robbie Shankar started. Yeah. Actually, Robbie came and gave a lecture to us one time, amazing, and we're in our twenties and he says, you should channel your sexual energy into playing your instrument. What. Yeah, And later I found out that he really didn't keep to that well very well, and so there was enough left over after putting it in the music we can still use. I'll RockA too. He was the ladies. Well he liked the whiskey too. Oh yeah, yeah, amazing. So you're saying he was a human being yea, yeah, yeah, kind of like MYHRESHI right, he liked Some of your band members met each other at TM is that? Yeah, that's true. That's where we met. Tell me the story. Robbie and I are fooling around with legal psychedelics and and then Robbie says, there's this Indian sage coming to town. And I'm thinking, yeah, well, meditation might be a little less shattering on the nervous system. And this is before the Beatles a year or two, I don't know got onto Mahureshi. Yeah, because we were doing it pretty much every weekend, and uh, and we were doing I was turning, yes, I was turning all my friends onto it. And so in this one guy had a bad reaction many you know, yeah, well did you douse him or yeah? I think I gave him a little speed with it or something extra to boost it. But anyway, he had a bad reaction, and I felt horrible, you know, and so I said, shit, there's got to be a better way to do this, you know. So my buddy, who had been to India met Mahishi and talked him into coming back here, Peter Wallace, and so his brother and I were buddies, Keith. So the first Mahishi meeting was at his house, and that's where Ray and John Ray happened to be there, all right, and John, John and I knew each other already. But so Ray came up to me and said, I hear you're a drummer. You want to be in a band, and I will I'm a professional. I don't know, I'll come down and jam and uh. Then, as I said later, Ray's brothers dropped out, Robbie came in. Was Jim already in the band? All yeah? I mean, you know, he stood in the corner with his back to us, so shy he couldn't. It was like, and we say, already in the band it means you know. Was actually it was Rick and the Ravens was the band, and this Ray's Brothers band at that point. And Jim used to sing Louie Louie once in a while, right, And then they started and then Jim came up with these couple of songs it's the words, and said he wants to call at the doors. And then that's when John I met and I met Ray, so I thought, Okay, he's not the next Mick Jagger. But these words, man, I want a drum to these words. They're so wild. We'll be right back with more from Robbie Krieger and John Densmore. After a quick break, we're back with the rest of Rick's conversation with the Doors. Robbie Krieger and John Densmore. Anything more about love, that's a little more to talk about, not the doors, right. Oh yeah, we got all the way. We think you can go wherever you're comfortable going. This final we got self centered. Well anyway, like I said, I kind of met Brian earlier on and I used to see him play and stuff, and he looked kind of like Brian Jones, you know, had that nice hair due and stuff. So I decided I wanted my hair to look like that, and so I get this hair straightener, you know, because I had I had the real afro hair and back now so Man, Billy Wolf, we both had the afron kind of hair, Jewish kink and yeah, we got this stuff. I figure what it was called. But it really worked on me. Man, I looked like fucking Brian. You know. Even Wolf said, hey, Man, you look like that jerk Brian. Uh, my client. And so that's right before I met the Doors, before I tried out for the Doors. So I had the good hair, man, I think that's why I got the job. And then a couple of months later when it grew back out, and I remember Jim going, what happened to your hair? But by that time they needed me. Why did Why did your friend refer to him as a jerk? Brian? Oh, it was just a friend, Leaf saying he was a competitive guitar player. Yeah. Yeah, we were jealous of him because he he was in a big group. You know. It's interesting long hair during that time, on the both coasts, there were long hairs but in the middle of the country. And one time after a New York gig, Ray and I and his girlfriend Dorothy drove across the country because we had no money, and so we got a car we could deliver as long as we paid the gas. And we stopped at a diner in Ohio. Ray and I had long hair and Dorothy's Japanese. We go in and holy shit, there's these guys at the counter with red paint on the back of their necks and they're scowling at us, and it was scary. I mean, even in La at that time, we were like the only long hairs around pretty much. I mean, I remember one time me and Jim went to eat at Ships. I think it was remember Ships, Yeah, I think you were there coffee shop in Westwood. Yeah, And we we started, you know, sat down ordering stuff and there was some marines next to us, and they started giving us ship all right, and so we kind of got started giving them ship back and were you there? And so finally we started to leave and they came out and grabbed us and the one guy was meant beating Jim with a whoa the pay phone, you know, and Jim, Jim was just laughing, he goes call the cops. Ha ha ha. You know he didn't mind being beat up. Remember I wasn't there, but it's reminded me of these these guys in Ohio were like saying to the waitress, Shureley, you got a scissors. Some of these girls need a hair. Yeah. I remember quite a few times that uppen And it's interesting now you know, then the punks I'm along to shave their heads and so now whatever anything's cool, I like it. There's a liberation. I bet either are still places you could find in the United States where you could go and not feel welcome. I'd say it's a big country. It's a big country. There's still plenty of place. So would you say that spirituality played a role in the doors definitely, Yeah, definitely wasn't talked about as much as Jim tried to squash. Well. I think he was a searcher. Yeah, we were meditating. He was trying to find out what was inside in his own way. You know, it's all different versions of we could call it self medicating in the case that TM it turns out to be healthier for you than let's say alcohol. Yeah, but it's definitely dealing with our inner self, trying to find something, something more? What else is there? You know? So did you guys practice TM? Oh yeah, I still do. We did TM. We did TM for like the whole career. Twice a day. We go, okay, we're going in the vocal booth for twenty minutes. Do what you guys got to do, and Robbie and I'd go meditate. Yeah, maybe that's what grounded us through that crazy so amazing, I'd say, amazing. And we actually took Jim to meet Maharishi one time. Wow, how's that didn't turn out? That one? Okay? What happened? Him? Didn't sign up? But I do remember him saying he wanted to look in his eyes and see if he had any knowledge, and he said he did, but he's not going to meditate. Yeah okay, Yeah. By that time it was bigger. The Beatles had started doing it. And after the lecture and we brought Jim up to real close to Maisie and tried to introduce him. I do remember, you know, I was raised Catholic. I'm now a renegade, of course, but I remember first time being in Mahaishi's presence and feeling a love vibe like I did not get this from those priests and the black tourniquets. Wow, I want this. Yeah, you know, I never got to meet Mahaishi. I learned TM when I was fourteen, and like you guys, it has I realized that it had a big impact on my life. Yeah, I noticed how you're sitting, no question, no question. I include that as part of who I am. You know, I don't think I would be the same person without that. I think of Maharishi as kind of jump starting this whole thing. Indian music, Robbie Shankar, the whole culture, Hindu culture at all, got a big push from him, really and is still here absolutely in various forms, and what a gift. Yeah. You know what's interesting is in the sixties there was no Internet, and wow, the Beatles happened to be experimenting with psychedelics like we were. The Beatles happened at our musicians over there all kind of got into meditation like we were. What's going on here? Carl Jung's archetypal undercurrents across the globe to get cosmic. But yeah, something going on, you know. Yeah, And it wasn't people imitating each other. It was just it was blossoming in the culture. The Beatles did imitate us. We were meditating before they were. Yeah, right, so we get technical amount it. And you were taking acid before them too. Probably. Actually, when I was in college, I had real Sando acid. Yeah, that was the stuff they Who was the guy that was doing those? Leary Albert? Who's later round us? Right, who's the guy who made it? The guy in San Francis. So Alsley comes to one of our gigs and he comes backstage and he says, you guys need a bass player. Man, there's a hole in your sound, you know. And he leaves and I said to Ray, Wow, we're making the King of Acid nervous. I think we're on the right track. Yeah, how did it work out that you decided not to have a bass player? It's interesting. We tried. We had a girl bass player for a minute. We sounded like the Stones, some white blues man or something. We tried a few bass players, and we always had a bass pretty much on the records. Yeah, well that was to make up for there was no mood synthesizers. So raised keyboard. Ray found this keyboard bass and then we, ah, that's it. We don't need a basic business but recording it worked on some songs like break on Through that's just like yboard in the end, and control of other ones, but other ones that needed that plucking from a string with various bass players over dubbed raised lines and actually on Backdoorman and Soul Kitchen was me overdooming the bass. Oh, there was again a rumor that John Sebastian played bass on one of your albums, Play Atlantic Harmonica on Roadhouse. Really okay, so you'll notice that John Sebastian, the hard player credited on Roadhouse is ge Pool Yayzy, which was a synonym for John Sebastian. Then that was his real name. What is his real name? That's his real name, Giovanni Pool Glacie is his real name? Really? Yeah, I think that would sound good as right, I thought he but I had heard that he didn't want to be associated with the Doors. It was his record company didn't want his attempt to use his name, right, But also the Doors, you know, I mean, there's this wonderful flower power thing with the birds and all the mamas and papa's in it. We loved it, but we were the underbelly the undeclared Vietnam War, the shadows, and people did not like us. Some they it made them nervous to be associated with us because we were dark. I don't think that was it. Well good, I'm glad we disagree now. I heard just a little earlier from a moderator that tension create is creativity. How fuck you? Well, fuck you? So good? Okay, so I see the TM's been working. Okay. Was it when you got to play at the Hollywood Bowl? Did that feel like a big deal at the time? Oh? Yeah, yeah, sure sure. Did anythink we were one of the first Did the Beatles play there? Yeah? I think the only the Beatles had played? But of course, you know, they made us have a decibel limit in that ruin. Yeah, and we had. That was the first time that we actually brought real cameras and movie cameras and stuff to film the show. So it looks real good. But uh, and Jim took acid and didn't tell us. Yeah, great, well why would he tell us? And it was fine, but there was something just wasn't a good show. I remember saying to you coming off stage, Robbie, what what? And he you said, he took assid just so he got and sometimes when he asked he was great, but at this time he got real introverted and he kind of just didn't move around. He saw a moth on the astro turf and picked it up and was examining it. And then it didn't help that his girlfriend Pam was sitting with Mick Jagger right in the front row, right because Jagger went out to dinner with us before and we wanted to be really good for him, and damn it, I mean, it's good. What did he What did he say? Somebody asked him about that. He said it was in Melody Maker. The doors are nice, chaps, but they went on a bit long. But I mean, it looks great, it looks good. Who was the last show you guys did New Orleans? I was trying to forget about. That was a bad one. Yeah. The night before was Dallas and we were trying out Riders Live Riders on the Storm and we were kind of wow, maybe we could kind of be a jazz rock thing. Maybe we got it's going to be different. And the next night Jim was drunk too drunk, Yeah, sat on the on the drum riser in the middle, just his head down the middle of the show, I walk around and sit next to him. Hey, man, what do you want to play next? Hello? And isn't that when Ray said he saw jim soul leave his body or something like Race said he saw his spirit exit? Ah, it was the last show we attempted. Yeah, I was lobbying for a year to get off the road because in the studio, if he's too messed up, we go home. But in front of ten thousand people, and we were really good live in the beginning, just pin dropped home. You think do you think success played a role in his destruction self destruction? Some probably, it's not just that. I think it would have happened anyway, you do. Yeah, here's a line someone said to me, blew my mind. Maybe if Jim hadn't met you guys, he would have died sooner. Interesting who interesting? Thought? Yeah? Yeah, because at least he had something to do he channeled. Yeah, I mean he lived to be on stage. Yeah, he enjoyed performing. Oh yeah's interesting. I wouldn't I wouldn't have known that if you didn't say it. No, we're kidding. Wouldn't have known that well, because he seemed so scary and serious and dark and weird, but he knew. When you're performing, you can feel if the audience is a Madison Square garden or a club, that's one person and the performer is a duet or an orchestra, that's the other person, and the two of you are going to dance tonight, and the mystery and excitement is what is it going to be? A waltz, a salsa, a riot? You know, And that's what's so kinetic about Energetically you feel that interaction. Yeah, and maybe that's why bands like your band, bands like Love, bands like The Grateful Dead for that matter. There Today there seems to be more and more artists who just are putting on a show and people are watching this thing, but there's very little interaction, you know, like the show is the same every night. Yeah, Whereas you guys would change according to what you were feeling that some song, like some songs would have long parts that got longer if it felt good that night. It wasn't so scripted. Yeah, But you guys also were influenced by jazz, and it wouldn't be unusual to have a long song in jazz, so bringing that bringing that jazz sensibility into popular music super cool and Robbie Genkar, I mean, yeah, we sat next to the man and ragas are fifteen minutes. Yes, and Robbie, Robbie was like, you know, yeah, you in America want a climax too soon, you know, take your time with the four play metaphorical. Yes. And we were steeped in that. Yes. When I first met Ray, he played me Robbie Shankar's theme from Panther Panchali and it had jazz guys on jazz and raga. It's like, wow, let's soak up this amazing. Yeah, cool, what a pleasure. Thank you and talking about this guy. Yeah. Thanks to Robbie Krieger and John Densmore for sharing so many incredible stories about Jim Morrison and the Doors. You can hear all of our favorite Doors songs on my playlist at broken record podcast dot com. Be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast, where you can find all of our new episodes. You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is produced help from Lea Rose, Jason Gambrel, Vantaliday, Eric Sandler, and Jennifer Sanchez, with engineering help from Nick Chaffey Our executive producer is Mia Lobell. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you like this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content an uninterrupted ad free listening for four ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcasts subscriptions, and if you like the show, please remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app. Or the musics by Kenny Beats. I'm Justin Richard.