The Art of A Cappella with Pentatonix

00:00:15Speaker 1: Pushkin, Pushkin. Just a quick note here. You can listen to all of the music mentioned in this episode on our playlist, which you can find a link to in the show notes for licensing reasons, each time a song is referenced in this episode, you'll hear this sound effect. All right, enjoyed the episode. Not long ago, I was having dinner with some old family friends. They have two daughters in their early twenties, Joanna and Annie. Joanna and Annelie are serious music people, super serious. So I said to them, if you could invite anyone, anyone on Broken Record, who would it be? And they both answered Tonics, not Beyonce, not Adele, not a reincarnated Elvis Presley. Pentatonics, an a cappella group from Arlington, Texas that got its start on YouTube that I'm going to guess most people over the age of thirty have never heard of. So what do we do? Well? We invited Pentatonics Unbroken Record, of course, where I have to admit I fell in love with him, even though I'm twice their age. My name is Malcolm Gladwell, you're listening to Broken Record. I met I'm Kirsten, I'm Mitch, I'm Scott and I'm Kevin and we are Pentatonics, and our name is based off the pentatonic scale, which goes on and on and on. Pentatonics Matt Sally bass vocals, Kirsten Maldonano mezzo soprano, Mitch Grassi tenor, Scott Hoying baritone, and Kevin o'lushila beatboxer, five members representing the five notes in the pentatonic scale. They're an incredibly charismatic group of twenty somethings who met in high school in Texas. They started out by uploading acappella covers of pop songs on YouTube and now they have sixteen million followers. But they really had the big time when they earned a spot on NBC's to Sing Off and won and now seven Pentatonics albums later, I got to meet with the group at GSI Studios in New York, along with friend of the show, public radio journalist and my co host for this episode, Daisy Rosario. By the way, they showed up early for the interview. In the history of rock and roll, no band has ever been early for an interview. They may even have walked from their hotel. I have no idea. Mitch was wearing the coolest code of I ever seen. Before the show, I hung out with Kevin, who turns out went to Yale speaks Chinese is half West Indian like me, and I feel like we could have just done a second show with Kevin riffing. They have a fifty city tour of arenas coming up this spring, but I don't think of Pentatonics as rock stars. There's something way better. We all got acquainted. Then they agreed to give Daisy and me a little demonstration of how their songs come together. That's basically how it happens. It's a simple formula, so that with that song. Okay, Now, on the degree of difficulty scale, if one is dead easy and ten is like insanely hard, where is that? That one's probably one of the easier ones, like a three, or it's a three? Oh yeah, can you give us a five? Let's just work up the scale. Five well, in terms of complexity would be like a six or seven. Got there? Why is that you said that was a three? Why is that a three? What's easy about is a lot of the background parts are really repetitive bump, and then other songs like like all over the place. Yeah, okay, So so the next one up is going to be like a five. Uh yeah, because that was a little bit tougher, but not too hard. She started just at the beginning, Yes, that's it. Yeah yeah, and then we end right before your solo. Yeah, do like a line of your soul and then we'll just like cut off right okay cool? So what wait? Wait? So why is that specifically? Why that's a little harder. Background parts are kind of playing off of each other to form one singular rhythm. Does that make sense? Yeah? Yeah. Also, if you get off, you off, you know, you have to be you have to hold down your part. Yeah. When is it harder if you if the song is slow? Is your job harder? If the song is just a different reason rest support? Maybe? Yeah. Slow songs can fall out of tune faster because we're holding long notes and they can start to be the tonal center can be lost. But fast songs, it can be just hard accuracy wise. Yeah, and your song is hard in a different way for each individual person too, Like the first like even just for the Christmas Show for example, the first half is so hard remain then everyone's like, oh, that's the easy part of me, and I'm like, oh, but it just depends on the person as well. Because that song we just did, it's really tough for you. I feel like, well you one of them. Yeah, but it is tough. There's there are especially parts later on where the beats like what's like you're just going everywhere? So I have to think a lot. But yeah, that one we've done a lot of times. I think god Rest is probably even a better example of like more difficulty. Yeah, seven or eight, because it's just okay, well to get to there, but wait, what what happens when you make a mistake? Like just keep on trying. No, I'm thinking, I'm thinking, I'm looking at you, Kevin. You just said there's a part of that song it's really hard. Sure what if you blow it? If you make a little air or does it so everyone else saw? I mean, honestly, you just keep going and thankfully, to be honest, I think there's a mystique in magic about beatboxing where nobody really knows that I've made a mistake, so I just keep going and like, seriously, there are times where I've drunk too much water and then I might burp, But then I'm like, oh, it's a beatbox. So there's there's that mystique that kind of helps me out in that way where people don't know. I think it's a lot more obvious if they make a mistake. Yeah and speak on that. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah to speak on that. Kevin's really good at covering, so like because because the rhythm section thing will we'll play off of each other, you know, where the foundation foundational things. So I'll hear him a lot of times like mess up, but he'll like come back in on a different syncopated rhythm. So it's really cool and people I'll geek out over that kind of stuff. So it's so cool. Like when he messes up, he does a mess up. So basically he does a mess up. It's like good jazz. It's like, oh they make a mistake and then you're like, oh no, it was purposeful. It's like okay character, ok wait, okay, So next the next next level up was you had mentioned a song probably like eight to Yeah, okay, where do you want to go from? Oh? Yeah, let's go before you go, before you before you start? Why what's hard about this? What I want to listen for it? This one? It's pretty quick, it's very quick, yes, and the notes are all over the place for all of us. And then there's like this I don't even know how to describe it. I mean, I would say this one is much more based off of classical music, so that there's a lot of like counterpunnel melodies that are going in and out. So each thing has this very distinct part. But then if you get off, it makes it a lot harder to come back in. So I think that's but that's why we liked it, because we wanted to be something intricate. When people say I would never hear this anywhere, m oh yeah, the hell. Oh yeah, that's true. So I want to start there and then go through start Oh, let's do that, okay, and then we do it again and the end and then yeah, oh wow, wait now okay, Now is there of that little bit you just did? Are there specific? Is there a specific part that is the most challenging or is it also equal you get nervous when you're about to come to one specific part of that song? Not really. I feel like once we learned that one, that one's not nerve wrecking anymore. So it's kind of an interesting thing. It was challenging to learn and it was a scary feat to take on. But now that we know it have sung it so many times that I'm never really nervous about a part. There are songs where I will get like nervous about it every single time, but that's actually not one of them, like Hallelujah, or like one of our ballads where there's a high part. Do you guys get nervous about the same things or do each have your own idiosyncratic nerves? Really good question. Probably I'm nervous about lyrics because I'm figured the time. Sometimes actually maybe I don't want to rink it. I'll say it an Sometimes you feel like you're about to forget something, feel like you're about to forget something, and then right when it happens, do you remember it? Because of muscle memory and your stomach drops and your heart is pounding, and you like you can't. So we have three prompters on our stage. You'll be like, I don't know what when you said, you said you get nervous sometimes when you're learning a song, you said you it's seems overwhelming at first. How long does it take you to learn a song? What's that? What's the learning process? Looked like it really depends on the song. So I mean, for example, we've done these evolution covers right where we do a person's career, or we do evolution of music, like he was about to say, it's where we do. I mean we've done I think from Gregorian Chance up to now. And I think depending on how many songs and the difficulty of the arrangement it can take, it takes us different amounts of time to learn. I mean, what, there's some songs that we can learn pretty easily. I think, problem, why aren't you on a grande? We did that in a very very short period of time, evolution of music. I mean, it's probably took us a weak plus. But it was funny because that one we learned it and then we actually did it for a TV show, so we had to redo it and learn it very last minute. I remember that, Yeah, we were going to be on Ellen, and so we had to relearn it, and so the next day we performed it and it was just a totally it was Yeah, it was very very difficult. So I think when you have those situations, when when you have to learn something very very fast and it's intricate, that's when your mind gets muddled a little bit, and we usually learn everything on our own and then come to rehearsal and then if we all haven't learned, it comes together pretty quickly actually as a group. That's interesting. That's not that completely surprises me. So in the in the beginning, you might pick a song and then you will all go off on your own. And is it obvious to what your piece of it is. Well, sometimes we'll arrange in person and then we're kind of learning it as we're arranging it. But then more often we'll just kind of have ideas and then arrange it with our arranger, and then we have sheet music and then like a MIDI track for each of us. I'll just kind of learn our part. You can hear their parts the MIDI track, and then we'll just kind of come having it learned. We'll be back with more from Pentatonics after this break. We're back with more Pentatonics and a question from my co host this episode, journalist Daisy Rosario. From beginning to end, let's say, if you weren't touring, if you weren't doing everything, but you were just preparing between purposely trying to pick some songs, creating the arrangements, then learning. How long is that process? I think, once again, it really depends. It depends on our timeline. It depends on how focused we are on the project. Compare you know, if we're on tour, it might take us longer because we want to save our voices. I remember, we actually did evolution of music, or at least the pre arrangement of it. And when we say pre arrangement, it means picking the songs, kind of getting rough ideas of what the song is gonna sound like. I mean, I truly believe though, if you were, like you have completely free time, how long would it take? We could do an entire song in a day? Yeah, I agree with that. If we got it in the morning and picked the song and then arranged it's been that would take a few hours, and then each record our part or like learn it. I feel like we could do it in a day. Yea. How does decision making work in your in your group? It's actually really cool and organic and we we uh, we just all just bring an idea when we have it, and we talk about it and we're all inspired and you can feel the momentum, then we just go with it. But there's no like voting process or anything, and you don't have because you have no It's not like the Rolling Stones, where like Mick is saying we're doing this and everyone else is and Ron Wood is saying, okay, yeah, it's pretty definite. Yeah, And if you see multiple members excited, even if you're not as inspired, you'll be like, Okay, let's go with it because they're excited, and then see where it goes. Do you have five of you? Do you have? Do you have very divergent tastes in music? For sure? Yeah, tell me a little bit about what the kind of span is actually bad? Why did you start? I grew up on a lot of music theater like some of us, but I also grew up in like gospel music, in contemporary Christian music, Like I was the only allowed to listen to that growing up for a little bit. And then then I evolved into musical theater and then kind of jazz. I went to work at College of Music, so it was a lot of jazz in that school, and so I have a really eclectic amount of different types of music that I like and enjoy. Yeah, I would say mine is pretty eclectic as well. I grew up on musical theater, and then I've been listening to like singer songwriters like Sarah Brellis, and I grew up on like Regina Spector and then you know, all the pop female side as well. And I listened to some electronic music here and there, like James Blake I really love. Yeah. I started in musical theater as well actually, and was really really big into that and soundtracks. And I think, uh, that's where my pitch accuracy came from, is because I would always emulate musical theater actors, actresses and they you know, that's like a big part of musical theater that I really appreciated is that they were all very very precise and pitch accurate. And then I moved on to electronic music and specifically using vocals and electronic music and cutting them up and using them as instruments and and yeah, I still haven't I still haven't gotten out of that. That's that's the genre that I think really inspires me the most. Yeah, I like I like anything with harmony. I also grew up doing musical theater. That's how we all. Matt and I love pop R and B. That's like what I listened to Beyonce and Ariana Grande and Jasmine Sullivan. Anything where it's like pleasurable chords and like happy sounding music but with soulful vocals. It's really my vibe. Yeah. For myself, I grew up on classical music. I played cello and so because that's all kind of like him. My parents are very heavily Christian, so that's what we could only listen to in the house. That and then this radio station called Delilah. There's just a lot of soft pop that's literally like all my delia. Yeah, that's what we listen to all the time. And then when I kind of went to boarding school and then college, that's when I started learning about more like contemporary pop music and I started to just take as much of it and as I possibly can. Were you also involved in musical theater and no, I wasn't. Literally we just did this Wicked special and that's when I kind of was really my first Forriento musical theater because I didn't really know much about it and so but it's truly amazing, like the things that these people do. Oh my gosh, So what is it about? Since four four to five of you eight Pentatonics comes out of musical theater. What is it specifically about that world that prepares you for a cappella singing. Would you have been as adept at what you do if you would all have just been in bands in high school? I think it obviously there's a certain theatrical aspect, and I think acapella I don't know what it is. I don't know if if a cappella singers just feel like they have to what's the word I'm looking for, not compromise, but they have to sort of prove themselves as performers without backing tracks or instruments or anything like that. So it's become a very performative art and also just takes accuracy, and it takes accurately don't have any inments behind you, so if someone if you're flat, then it's like extremely noticeable. And so I think that in musical theater it's all about pitch accuracy. That's like like those are the best singers in the world. And it's very emotional too, and that's something we all really show emotion. I also think it takes a lot of hard work to be doing eight shows a week. I was very fortunate to being Kinky boot taller this year, and I learned so many like tricks of the trade from all these people that I was in the cast with, and I took all of that with me into our summer tour and onto this tour as well, and just everyone is just an amazing workout that they know when to say no, they know how to take care of their body, and I just it's just really inspiring because you think, like, you know, we go on a tour, a two and a half month tour or this tour and you know, this Christmas tour, and they can be so grueling, but these people are doing it all year long, like there is no stop and they get one day off and yes they can call out, you know, they can take a but that is that is their life, their entire time. So it takes a lot of work out. That they have families, they have you know, So I think that's something also just really beautiful about the craft. Yeah, does does see curious about the relationship you have to your audience. Does the when you do something that's really difficult in demanding that you're really proud of pulling off, do you think your audience realizes how hard it is? Do they are they are. They do you think you're appreciated by the casual listener, like the craft of it? I think they do. I think they do realize how difficult it is and appreciate it. I think that they appreciate more when it feels emotional, whether it's difficult or not. I think they respond more to the emotion of the arrangement than like the complexities. But I do think, especially the nerdier acapella lovers really like we also arrange for that. We make sure that we have specific quote unquote impressive moments in our songs so people will be like, oh, wow, acapella, I forgot they're doing it live, you know. Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking of the Bahamian Rhapsody, which is like, you don't have to know anyth about music. You watch your video of you guys doing that, You're like, oh, this is something amazing is going on here, and I don't know, you know, So it is kind of in that case, it really because the song, I guess is so actually talk about that song? That song is I might write the song is that about? Its demanding a piece of music to do? Is sure that one's really hard? Did you feel like you were taking a risk by trying it. Yes, we were afraid of it for a couple of years, put it off for six years. We talked about doing it for wow six years. Yeah. Yeah, But I think you touched on something that's really important, that it really the song matters that much, especially for the casual listener, because I think a lot of our fans are music lovers, so they do appreciate a lot of what we do intricately. But the thing is, we also want to reach a wider fan base, So I think it's so important that the song choice is so important so that people listen to it. They say, I don't even care or know that it's a cappella. I care that this is a song that they're doing and it it makes me feel so good, and I would like to listen to them more. So I think song choice for that reason is so important to us. We Can we do a little Can we break down Bohemian rhapsty for a moment here? Sure? Because I'm curious about Uh. First of all, there's so much going on in that song, and I'm curious to know what you think of as being the most interesting parts of that song from your perspective. I think the middle section of it, the Galileo. That whole part is very interesting because there's dueling choirs, but we have two backgrounds, so we're literally like, let them go, let me go. I love it. We're singing all these parts, and it's it's almost a little bit ridiculous, Like if you heard one of us singing our part, it would be hilarious, but we would like my word, will let you go, let me go, will not let you go, let me go, let you go, never, never, never, Like that's what I'm doing, like way higher, screaming these parts. As as you're doing that, can you give you individually do what you're doing. When he's doing that, it's pretty much the same we're doing. We will not let you let me go. Yeah, and you're like trying to catch a breath at any moment you can't let it let you go. Do you wonder how I Every time I heard that song, all I can think of is, how on earth did this song get written? Like the movie? And I was like every single song, I'm like, yeah, I kind of create a genius. It's so it's bananas. It's like it comes from a different musical universe. Is that what is that. What are the songs you've done that you feel have been kind of breakthrough? Did he know? Is what launched our first Christmas album? And then Hallelujah was huge? Can you talk? So it's funny you mentioned Alujah. I did a one of my podcast episodes of my other podcast, I did a whole episode devoted to that song, talking about all of the different versions over the years. It took twenty years to emerge. The original version is so different from what we associate. You know, we think of the of the Buckley Jeff Buckley version, or we think of the and I'm just curious how you approach So there's a song which exists out there in so many different done so many different ways, in different forms. How did you approach that song? It's and it's such a it is it is a deeply complicated song. Did you have a version you were kind of looking at or what was what was the process of putting your own imprint on something like that. We were trying to find like a beautiful Christmas song to do. Actually, we wanted to have a Christmas ballad for the year, and so we wanted to use these Christmas version of this Christmas version of Hollya with like Christmas lyrics, but then it ended up not working out. We had to use the normal lyrics, and we just like, but we loved the arrangement so much that we were like, let's just put it on the Christmas album. And I don't remember how we stumbled. I mean, it's one of the most famous songs ever written. I think that it was always kind of in on our short list of stuff we would eventually do. When it came to arranging it, I think we approached it very gently, and we wanted to make the arrangement very humble, and we didn't really want to do anything insane with it because it's such a beloved song and you have to be really careful with songs like that, you know. I also think what I love about this song, and I rewatched the video the other day and I hadn't seen it in a long time. I love and like when we're performing it on stage as well. I think everyone's part is very well suited for their strengths, and so it's really like touching and lovely to listen to each person singing these specific lyrics that are doing written in the way that it is. I think it's very moving and appropriate for all of us, so we all get the chance to shine, and then it all comes together at the end and feels very moving and impactful besides just being a beautiful song lyrically. You know, well, what's interesting about that song is that when you so, I've been listening to that song version of it forever and ever and ever. It's a song about it. When you hear it conventionally, it's one voice, you know, in this kind of you, you you don't associate it with the group, which is why it's so fascinating to see it reformed in a redone. Can you actually, can you do a little bit of it like the first verse, Oh what I was like in her birth? And that you get the be boxing, you get it to the can is it okay? If I just start crying. We'll be back with more from Pedatonics, including their recording session with the Great Dolly Parton. We're back with more Pentatonics. I want to talk about your the music you write yourself, and how what sort of the relationship between your own music and other people's music. How does that? Can you talk a little bit about the there's a there was is there was there a moment when you decided you had to start doing some of your own stuff as well to originally. Yeah. Yeah, we definitely decided to do and that's why we did our original album. We wanted to kind of branch out and start telling our own stories. But we do like love cover so much, so we started doing covers as well. But then more original stuff's coming next year. We like to do it all. Yeah, so you have another originals album coming in twenty nineteen. Yeah, that's we're working on it. When it comes out, we're not necessarily sure because I think the one thing that we learned about the original album process is that to write great songs takes time, and so we really don't want to rush ourselves. The first time we did it, we wrote i mean thirty four songs in maybe like a month and a half, and so that was and I think it was our first foray into songwriting. So this time we want to give ourselves some time to really say, let's let's see what stories we really want to tell, what sound really accentuates these stories, and how do we evoke the emotions that we really want to evoke. Since we've grown so much in twenty fifteen. If you write a acappella song from scratch, do you write it in a different way than if you are writing it for a kind of standard rock and roll band that there's multiple ways to do it. You can write it with the arrangement in mind, or I found what works. That's just too much for me to think about. So for me personally, I always just like to write it with a piano or something and just write the song and then and maybe some ideas will be inspired by the fact that we're going to do at acapella, but I just don't want to like get caught up in that. Yeah, I think. And now I'm really interested to see how the songwriting process goes in the future because now we've all been writing in an individual product for other people as well. So now I feel like initially when we went into the first songwriting situation, it was like, all right, we have to write a really cool song, but it also has to be a cappellas there were so many limitations already said on it. So I'm interested to see what the new process is because I think it will be different for everyone, just based on you know, it can't be the same everyone's songwriting process is different in general anyway. So yeah, or we'll have like a songwriter pitch us the song and it'll be an amazing song, but it's like the production that makes it cool, and I'm like, oh, well, now I cant do it. Yeah, this is this crazy drop. I was like, I'm not sure that's gonna be right for us. For you guys picking songs and when people approach you, how quickly can you kind of assess like, oh, this is something we'd really be able to hook into versus Oh, actually that's a nice idea, but it doesn't play to what you do. Yeah. I think it's gotten easier as we've done this more. I think in the beginning, I remember, even when we were writing original songs, we tried songs. There's one called Love Again where we did like an electronic drop, and then quickly afterward we realize this just does not work for us. So I think as time is gone and we've tried so much, because in the beginning of any you know, band startup, if you want to call you, you're doing a lot of experimentation. So I think now we've really honed in on being able to say we're working with songwriters you know, I don't think this is going to work. But also we do try to let things kind of see how they take form, because sometimes, you know, when we're arranging the original song in our style, we realize, oh wait, there's a way that we can change it for our own purposes. So it kind of really depends. But yeah, it's it's it's a fine balance. It's a hard thing. What does it mean it doesn't work for you? What is that There's a difference between vocally being able to produce this song as opposed to emulating a sound that is not properly going to be emulated. It doesn't make sense. I feel like it's just sweet. If it's gonna be boring, that's that's kind of my gauge. Like we try to do like this Muse song and it's like so beautiful, and we were like we have to do it, and there's like them, they had already had kind of a cappella things happening in it, and so we were trying to arrange it. But there's like it for what they did with it, it worked, but when you put our spin on it, it it was hard to make interesting. It was madness. Yeah, because it's kind of like similar melodies over and over, and it just it's like the slow build and like a ton of belting, and like it would just kind of sound, i don't know, lackluster if we did it and we wanted to take something and completely flip it on its head and then make it special for us instead of just like a worse version of the original. The ever, I'll say this, one thing that I think we've really learned is that you know a lot of producers, whenever you're singing a song, it's focused on the track, how amazing the track is. And I'm not saying like certain production parts that are like drops and stuff like that, but just how cool the track is. That's the bed of the music. They're going to say exactly. And we realize, like, that's not something that we do very well, because I think a lot of what a cappella is is the build and the emotion behind the build and transitions, and so we always have to make sure that whenever we're arranging a song or doing a song like that has to be a very crucial part of that arrangement. And so that I think that's one reason that we can quickly tell whether a song is going to work or not on it. The track is great, but we realize there's not going to be a build that allows us to really showcase what we do, so well we scrap it. Is there a can? I ask? Is there a balance that you're looking for? Because one thing that really does strike me when I listen to your covers is like covers are It's lovely when somebody really like reinterprets a song and makes you hear it in a different way. But that's you are making me hear it in a different way in one way and then another way you are scratching a very satisfying itch right Like. It's like like there's clearly the recognition of like the elements of whatever the song is and why we love it. I think you guys always nail that while still making it sound in a way that highlights what you do. And the same with your voices. I find them to be both your Your voices are terribly distinctive and then at the same time can disappear into mimicking you know what is familiar about a song that we loved, And there's just to me, such an interesting tight rope there, and that's exactly what we try that's always our first conversation, where like, how can we hold on to what makes the song special and but also like make it completely different so people won't compare. It's like, it's definitely a balance. So that's so that's part of the criteria there is that it has to kind of do both. It's a balance. Yeah, you don't want to change. You don't want to flip a cover so intensely that people are like, now it's lost. I don't like this song. It's bad. You want to keep that what the magic was. That's why we chose to even cover it. So but yeah, but again make it around. When you Scott, when you were talking about the ones that work are the ones that tap into the emotionality of the song. Curious about what is a difference in Is there a difference in the way that a listener responds to a sound made by an instrument and a sound made by a voice. Is it easier for n acapella band to tap into the emotionality of something? Is voice more powerful? That's a really good question. We've never been asked out before. I think it depends on what specifically moves people. But I personally am more moved by vocals because it's more people singing lyrics, it's more people's storytelling, and so that moves me. And I'm really moved by harmony. But everyone responds differently to things. It seems so that the majority of people. This is quite a broad statement, I would say, but from what I've gathered and judging by our fan base and what they enjoy, it seems like people really just enjoy vocals and that really really moves people emotionally, even on like American Idol and the Voice and like, people just really tune in and it really moves them. I also think that people are just really moved by passion if you're passionately singing. One of the most amazing performances I've ever seen is so random. Was at like a Christmas concert and it was a girl playing violin, and she just the way she was moving her body and performing was so beautiful to me. It like has stuck with me, and I that's the first time I feel like I've always been like, you know, inquire and like move by the harmonies, and but I think it's just like if someone's really passion about it doesn't matter what instrument you're telling a story your storytelling and that's their that's their voice in a way, you know. Yeah, maybe because we have so many people singing, we have a little bit of a head start, and yeah, and making something emotional. I wouldn't my want to talk about what one of my favorite of your songs, which is Julie, how did that? First of all? First of all, Dolly partner, I know that's Can we just say a few words about how she is awesome and she's she's Oh my gosh, I can't wait to tell you these stories. She's the best person in the world. It came about in the most random way. So we were working with Cracker Barrel and so she shut up at the same time, just randomly, and then they kind of brought us together and we're like, do you want to do a medley with her? And we were like, we'd love to do a medley. All our songs are iconic, but maybe we just do Joe Lee because that would be so epic. And she was like, I'm down for whatever. I'll be there, And then we went to the studio and showed up at it was like seven thirty am was our call time. We walk in with like breakfast and sweats, like not at wake ya. She's in full glam. There are thirty minutes early makeup, hair out. But she's like, I'm ready when you all are. She's just I was like, you are amazing. And we changed a few things in the song, and what did you change? So we shortened we shortened it and like less space between the verses, just little tiny things. We were singing it with her, and then she was messing up because she's used to doing her version for the last fifty years, and we were horrified, and I was like, we can change it back. I'm so sorry, we're ruined masterpiece. I was like having an anxious meltdown, and she was like, no, I want to learn y'all's version. And she was taking notes and learning this new version. I mean, like the best attitude, the entire time, best attitude, so happy and like loving it. And then she was like, this is the best version I've ever heard of this song. I love you guys, like I want to work with you all again. It was so cool. Wait when I the version the video I saw was that that would have been a I guess this. I think it was the official video. Is that a live performance that you're doing, which she gives you the where she where she where? She does a low five at the end of the song with you guys, you know that one. So what we did is we went into the studio and we did sing it in one take and then and then and then we filmed the video. Oh it is a live take, but it's not that see yeah, yeah, I just thought that was And did did you had she heard of you before? I don't know, I don't know, to be very honest. So just so Cracker Barrel brings you together and I was like, wow, I loved that. That's a brilliant example of what you've been talking about. The song. It's a different song. It sounds the same and if you weren't, if you're not paying attention to oh it's Julian and then you're like when you see it, you're like, oh no, no, it's a different. The feeling of it is so much, it's so much I don't know, it seems more. I don't know what it is. The idea of just all of you on stage like that, it just it was a different It's becomes a kind of group experience, it becomes it's not as sad Okay, it's more about the arrangement of the book. No, No, it's more the original is super sad. I mean it's like it's all but that one. There's a kind of joyfulness that comes the nostalgia of the song. Maybe, yeah, you're all enjoying it. She's having so much fun and we're just fangirling over her energy. Is she just creates this atmosphere of happiness that's like really amazing. I can't I didn't even want to. I don't know how old she is. I don't think it matters, but like it is, she is, So that is some kind of some kind of amazing thing going on. What are you gonna do more things like that? Yeah? Absolutely? So who would you love to do? Who would you not love to do? A collaboration? Yeah, we've been we've been talking about Ariana lately. Thought that would be so awesome. I mean, I think that we would work well with Imagen Heap. She just because she's so she uses her vocals in such interesting ways and she's so incredible and creative. Can I tell you my Imagen Heap shows? Please yours? This is years ago. I was at some random conference in Maine of all places. It's Saturday night, and I realized by miss by totally that Imagen Heap is there. I have no idea why she was there. So I find myself at like two in the morning with Imagine Heap and these two other people. I have no idea who they were. We were and we were singing George Michael's songs by the water It remained, it remains probably the greatest if to go of by life. I can't believe that hilarious It was like and her the genuine affection she had for George Michael, and it made me think I had sort of like, hadn't realized what incredible songs they were until she started singing them with us. I mean I was doing a bad job. She was doing an amazing job. But I can see, Oh my god, will you please do something with him, Jennifer listening, Will you do George Michael with Yeah? I was wondering if if reality were not a problem, if you could go back in time or anybody, I mean, if they're vocalists purely, who would you love to work well, Michael Jackson, Patsy Klein. I don't know why we were in country music world. Matt you said Michael Jackson, which Michael Jackson saw do you think is a Pentatonics? I think, oddly enough, human Nature would be really cool. It's such a different type of song, and it's I mean, man in the mirror. You know you have all the hits. But I think that won'd be a really cool arrangement we could do with his voice over top. I actually we could do that. We paid a lot of money. Can you imagine if we did like a dueling acapella thing with Jackson five? That would be jack and I wish you do. I come back to this idea of this like sense of urgency. When I'm watching you all so engaged with each other. It doesn't just feel like you're performing because there is an audience there, Like it feels like you're all physically connected and would have to be physically responding in some way. I mean, you really are using your voice as fully as instruments, and you don't get a break the way a lot of musicians to yeahs here exactly. I was wondering if you notice the difference between when you're performing as the group versus solo, just physically how you interact It is so so different. It's very different. Hard for me now to do anything without the group because it's like we're such a unit now and that's just how I perform for six years that I'll do, like I'll like sing it. I'll even sing for like fifteen people at a part little jam session, and I'll be like nervous, like more nervous than I would be on stage in front of ten thousand people. It's like it's a very interesting way your body responds because you feel so lonely when you're singing. It made me like sad because like it's so cool to play off the different energies on stage and whether it's instruments or you know, it's so great when it's just like us and vocals and stuff. But when you're like sitting there by yourself and if there's a track going on, you're like where is everyone? Like I'm just like boring too, yeah, performing by myself, and I'll be like this is not as engaging and I don't feel as confident in it. I feel like what I'm doing right now is boring to them, and I don't want to bore anyone. And and like also our trio when we're singing parallels it's like such a safe space you can just like sing without like feeling. Yeah, it's very interesting. Can I you into doing one last song? Do you have a request? Do you have a class? Well we were talking about Joe Lee, we don't have you don't Will you be Dolly? Okay, we'll have to do something you can Yes we missed it, Yes we are missing Dolly. It occurred to me I could do like part of that Christmas to me or something, or it won't be Christmas in the stairs or why did you yea? Let you pick something that something that you is there something that you really love? You can't sleep love part I can't sleep the first person course, that's nice. I could do that because that's pretty. So you wanted to started out at the beginning to and it's original. M are you coming at the pre course? Okay, we'll go through the first chorus. Okay, cool m bomom because A tell me right, Oh my gosh, my boys can do this and oh my, that was really lovely. Thank you. That was Pentatonics from GSI Studios in New York. To see when Pentatonics are in your town, check out p dot t dot x Dotofficial dot com and we've made a playlist of our favorite pentatonic songs for you that you can check out at broken record dot com. Broken Record is produced by Justin Richmond and Jason Gambrel, with help from me a LaBelle, Jacob Smith, Julia Barton, and Jacob Weisberg. Special thanks to my co hosts Rick Rubin and Bruce Hadlam and my co host this week, Daisy Mosario. Our Broken Record theme music is by Kenny Beats. This show is brought to you by Pushkin Industries. I'm Malcolm that show. Yeah. I