John Oates

00:00:15
Speaker 1: Pushkin. John Oates is, of course, one half of one of the best selling pop duos in history, Hollan Oates. But before forming Hallan Notes and defining the late seventies and eighties with their signature sound, John was steeped in folk and delta blues, a sound he returns to on his new self titled solo album. On today's episode, I talked with John about the making of that new album, including the songwriting skills he's honed over years of playing with top Nashville musicians. He also shares a story of how he wound up playing Mississippi John Hurt's acoustic guitar on the first two Hall and Oates records, and the moment backstage at the Apollo Theater in Harlem when he realized, after performing with the Temptations that Hall of Oates had truly come full circle. This is broken record, real musicians, real conversation. Here's my conversation with John Oates. You can see the full video of this interview at YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast. John Oates, thanks.

00:01:22
Speaker 2: For being here, man, well, thank you, thanks for having me.

00:01:24
Speaker 1: Real pleasure to have you here. Yeah, and you're you're you have a bit of a cold. I do you want a new guitar? But that's no excuse. No, you're a professional.

00:01:34
Speaker 2: I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna bring it.

00:01:38
Speaker 1: So you're are you going to do?

00:01:39
Speaker 3: Uh?

00:01:40
Speaker 1: Sonny Terry and Brownie McGee.

00:01:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well I'm really uh. I'm really thrilled that you actually know, first of all, know that song, and second of all that you requested it. Yeah, it's one of my favorites. Can I tell you a little story about it really quick?

00:01:51
Speaker 1: Please? Please.

00:01:52
Speaker 2: It was during the pandemic and I was out in Colorado spending some time out there, and I ran into a neighbor of mine that I'm known for over twenty years out in Woody Creek and we started talking, you know, because nothing was going on, you know, and nobody was recording. And he's a great lyricist. He's written songs for John and he even wrote a lyric for Frank Sinatra.

00:02:11
Speaker 1: What.

00:02:12
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's his name is Joe Henry and fantastic guy. And he said, man, he goes, We've known each other for twenty years, never wrote a song together. And I said, I said, man, I got time on my hands, let's do it. And so he came up to our little cabin and we sat down, and you know, songwriters always, you know, it's kind of hard to get started sometimes you don't know where you're going to start, right, And we start talking about the Blues because I was a fan, and everything started talking about Sonny Terry and Brownie McGee, the great, the legendary blues duo. And he said, you know, he said, you know, the story about what happened to them as they got, you know, on in their career. They really started to dislike each other. They had bad issues. Yeah, and so but as time went on, one of them lost his sight eyesight, and the other one lost this ability to walk, and they literally needed each other to get on stage, and it kind of brought them together in a way.

00:03:02
Speaker 1: And I thought, wow, what a story.

00:03:04
Speaker 2: I said, you know, not only is that an amazing story, but it's almost like a metaphor for or kindness and lending a helping hand, you know what I mean. And uh, I just thought, wow, what a great idea. And so we started out to do it. The song kind of about them, but it morphed into something greater than that, you know, and they became the vehicle for it.

00:03:26
Speaker 1: I have so many questions based on what you just said. But if you played the song first time, I would like to talk some more.

00:03:32
Speaker 2: Sure you know, I get to try. Like I said, I haven't played this in a little while, but I'll give it a try, right, I'll you'd be there for me.

00:03:53
Speaker 4: Well, I'll just pass it through.

00:03:57
Speaker 2: Trying to be the best that can be.

00:04:01
Speaker 4: I said, it has that's the funny that he's never strong and just that nothing gets the sided by drawing lines in the side. Talk about kid and you talk about sticks and stones, the philosopher's and fools. It was little dish with loaded barmable rubber to Roger to the gaping. But when they're d it's selling its in different kitties. He'll keep on drinking them.

00:04:45
Speaker 5: About what a dicky Walter.

00:04:52
Speaker 6: If you'll see it for me, sit selling it telling key kind of suffect.

00:05:10
Speaker 4: It's amazing leg stop saying that.

00:05:15
Speaker 1: Can't had done not.

00:05:18
Speaker 4: So I say him, yes it can. When you're stopping moving through the darkness, we chat home. Poon up the house that will bring us world begin and that's worth striving for us. Wine this believing until the truth is gone.

00:05:47
Speaker 6: He ain't learn loud again over his author carrying on the long dark night, but we'll wake up to the bright up dark.

00:05:58
Speaker 4: Just keep on, he's saying.

00:06:01
Speaker 7: Blue.

00:06:03
Speaker 4: Keys, and keep on dreaming bad.

00:06:07
Speaker 8: That could be.

00:06:10
Speaker 9: Waf you'll see for me, said Sunny, brothers are getting.

00:06:33
Speaker 4: I'll talk about to Reaven, talk about.

00:06:35
Speaker 2: Sticks and stocks, philosopher's influence.

00:06:39
Speaker 3: It was in Guys were loaded on Did a minute Brother to brother get to the third birthday?

00:06:50
Speaker 10: This singing the book was in the key said Sunny try.

00:07:18
Speaker 2: Amazing, thank you mans. I haven't played that in a little while, so.

00:07:21
Speaker 1: It was What I love about that is it's it's the pandemics about when I discovered that song, because you know it was it was around that time when everyone was just clicking onto different live streams and had some time on your hands, had some time and I don't know what last stream was, but I remember watching you play that. At some point I say, that's a really cool video live in the studio, so so cool. And it's when I realized you were like a I never you know, with Holland Oates, with you and Daryl Hall. You think of course soul music R and B. So I know it's there, but never really pegged you as either of you as like blues guys or or folk guys. But you know, and that's a that's like a it's a rootsy song but harmonically interesting, which not to say, you know, the blues isn't really always I know, it's so it's like that's a really cool blend of what people know you for in your career and and then this interesting part of you that I don't think a lot of people know about. You know.

00:08:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, as a kid, that was my sweet spot. Folk music, rural blues, Delta blues, roots, American roots music. And that's kind of when I met Daryl Hall. That's kind of what I brought to the table. I was more of an acoustic guitar player. And then you know, Darryl, you know, had a different set of influences and we kind of combined things together. He learned from me, and I learned from him, and you know, that became the collaboration, became our sound and eventually, you know, was.

00:08:52
Speaker 1: He was he into? Like were you both into what each other had? Like in terms of was he into listening to blues? And were you no?

00:08:58
Speaker 2: No, no, no, he was into street corner doo wop singing, and also he was classically trained. Yeah, he sang in the church and that kind of thing. And he was a piano player, and so I was, you know, I was a prettyly acoustic guitar and I had all the rootsy stuff happening, and so he picked up a mandolin because he wanted to learn some of that stuff. So we started playing bluegrass and things like that, and then I learned some very more sophisticated chord voicings and stuff from him because of his great piano playing.

00:09:25
Speaker 1: Wow. I went on a journey after like discovering that song, and I went back and I found an old recording you guys did of Deep River Blues, which is Doc Watson stuff.

00:09:36
Speaker 3: Right.

00:10:04
Speaker 1: Oh, man, is it true you learned that from Doc Watson?

00:10:08
Speaker 2: Well, I learned it from his record initially, but I actually met him and his son, Merle, and you know, through I had a teacher, a guitar teacher in Philadelphia who became started as a teacher, who became a mentor friend and actually played on the first two Hole of Notes albums as well. And he he worked at a coffee house during the sixties when the Folk Revival was happening. So when a lot of these are these original artists, everyone from people like Doc and people like Mississippi John Hurt and Sunny Terry and Brownie McGee, all these folks were being rediscovered and brought up to the northern cities, you know, during the folk Revival. He got to meet them, and eventually, you know, they would stay at his house because of course a lot of especially the blues guys, come coming up from the Mississippi Delta. They had no money, they didn't know even had to live in a city or go to a hotel much less. Right, So I would go over to take lessons and you know, Mississippi John Hurt would be there sitting on his couch. And so I learned from the originators of all this stuff, and that's why I can do all this stuff. Of people didn't realize that you met Mississippi John Hurt. Oh yeah, what, Yeah, I have his guitar. What I have the guitar that he played at Newport in nineteen sixty three when he was discovered Get out of Yeah, how did you get that?

00:11:20
Speaker 1: Oh?

00:11:21
Speaker 2: Through a circuitous way, my guitar teacher Jerry Rix. After well, when he took John Hurt around, he took him to Newport Folk Festival, Philly Folk Festival, and he helped him out. So when John Hurt died, the guitar that he was given because when John Hurt was invited to Newport for the first time, he did not even have a guitar.

00:11:41
Speaker 1: Wow.

00:11:41
Speaker 2: So they took him to New York and took him to the Greenwich Village to a guitar shop and they said pick something, and he picked this Guild guitar, Guild F thirty and that was the guitar he played initially at Newport. And then of course the Guild company gave him a different guitar later on. So, but when John Hurt died, that guitar was given to my teacher, Jerry Rix. And Jerry went to Denver and he was working out there before he kind of atriated to Europe and never came back. And at the time he sold it to a collector out there who kept it in his basement for thirty five forty years and the guy died and his daughter had read where I well, actually, I know I'm going back a little bit backwards, back in seventy two when Darryl and I were first signed to Atlantic Records, going up to New York to make the first album, and I wanted Jerry to play with me because we played together so well, and he said, you want me to bring to John Hurt guitar so you can play it. So on the first two Hollow Notes albums, I'm playing Misissippi John Hurt's acoustic guitar.

00:12:45
Speaker 1: Yeah, we do you know what songs?

00:12:46
Speaker 4: Yeah?

00:12:46
Speaker 2: Had I known you better than on the Abandon Luncheonette, all the songs on the whole Oats album, anything that I'm playing acoustic guitar on, I'm playing that guitar. And so then so it was in a collection and the guy's daughter, I guess, just wanted to sell whatever he had had read about the fact that I used that guitar, reached out and then I bought it.

00:13:12
Speaker 1: That's incredible. It's amazing that it landed to like it was in your home stage. Yes, what's crazy, so convenient, that's insane. I mean, you guys are like both of you, you guys, you know by the way, I'm sure you do. You hate at this point that you know, I keep saying you but you know, you guys are tied by career.

00:13:32
Speaker 2: Even we're tied by a lot of things.

00:13:34
Speaker 1: The terms aren't so friendly these days.

00:13:35
Speaker 2: But you know, hey, listen, people grow up, they grow up, they grow apart. You know, Darryl and I we made something very special. We made something that that you know, I'm very proud of the music we made, the experiences we had. It's a miracle that we stayed together for fifty years. I mean, come on, most people, that's unheard of. Yeah, and you know, I have great, great memory, and I'm really really proud and honored to have been part of this incredible collaboration, made some music. I think we'll stand the test of time. But by the same tone, can you know I can't stay. It's like going to a great museum. You know, you're all excited about going to the museum. You're walking there also on your feet, start getting tired and said, damn, how many how many of these? How many these masterpieces gonna look at? I gotta get out of here.

00:14:23
Speaker 1: It's an incredible annalogy. It's weird, but there might be a song in that one. Yeah, but you know, you guys, and I'll just say, you know you guys are.

00:14:33
Speaker 7: Like, you know, your career, you guys are like a millions, you know, like there's this connection you have to these blues grates, which I never did not know that that's that's it's real.

00:14:45
Speaker 1: And then you know, if you think about there was like this very specific New York City scene that you guys got to experience in this very specific LA scene that you guys got to experience much less, you know, going back to Philly. And so you guys just have had these really unique like almost like uh you know, like musical uh what do you call that? Like not Senghali's, but you know, like that's at that far. You know, you just happened to turn up at all these kind of interesting we unctures.

00:15:15
Speaker 2: We had a lot of, you know, our our individual musical influences are when we were kids. Daryl lived about twenty miles from where I grew up in Pennsylvania outside of Philadelphia, in small towns, but we listened to the same radio stations and so when we met, even though we didn't know each other, we had this common musical lexicon that we could draw from. We knew these same songs, the same artists, the same we could draw from those things as a common ground, common musical ground, even though he was very different than me and I was very different from him. And that's what we used to become what we became. And then during that period of time, you know, when you're part of a partnership, you you subjugate a certain part of your not only your personality, but your musical personality for the good of the whole, you know, for the good of the the team, so to speak. And so I set the folky rootsie stuff aside, really and it was always there, you know, I'd sit in the dressing room and I'd be playing this kind of stuff all the time. But you know, it was never featured in the in the music.

00:16:23
Speaker 1: That we made. But you to your point, on those first two albums, you can get it to a decrease.

00:16:29
Speaker 2: We were trying to find ourselves. We didn't know who we were we could be. And it really wasn't until the Silver Album, which we recorded here in Los Angeles, that a sound kind of began a coalesce. And then of course it developed during the seventies and then in the eighties it hit its stride.

00:16:44
Speaker 1: Right right after this break. We'll be back with John Oates. I always wondered, and you know it's mast Is first. There so many things to ask With the Silver album, you guys were, like, to your point, in search of a sound not successful but not quite yet, kind of over the edge. If Sarah Smile hadn't randomly become a single, I mean, and it wasn't to say randomly randomly, It wasn't even released as a single. Just radio picked it up. That's right. People kept calling radio plays it some more. I said, okay, we better put it out at the record.

00:17:19
Speaker 2: Company finally said, hey, we've better release because we had released two or three singles prior to that.

00:17:24
Speaker 1: They did okay, good songs, but they didn't hit yeah, or didn't hit quite, didn't hit like that. So would you guys have kept searching at that point, I mean not that you guys. Would you have continued to try to find a sound that resonated with audiences.

00:17:40
Speaker 2: I think we would have. I think we would have. Well, let's put it this way. We we had made what at that point when Sarah Smile hit. That was the fourth album so three on Atlantic Records, three and a half. Because they put out a kind of the greatest non hits record called No Goodbyes. But the fact that Atlantic stuck with us with no real success commercial success was real. But what that was a that was a hallmark of the time. You know, if a record company signed you in those days, they they signed you because they thought you could have a career, they thought you could do you know, it wasn't just predicated on instant commercial success like it is today. So very fortunate to have grown up in that era, right. And then when Sarah Smile hit that, we had already switched to RCAA Records, and so then we began to really now, okay, now we got something going here. And then of course we had Rich Girl, and then they re released it She's Gone for the third time, and that finally became a hit too.

00:18:36
Speaker 1: So we had that run in the mid seventies, right, and to that point of fostering talent over the long term, She's Gone finally becomes a hit, and it's also seems to be one of the most enduring of the entire catalog some way, What what why? What preceded that switch from Atlantic to RCA Because it always to the guys were perfect for us, business, just purely business.

00:18:59
Speaker 2: We had so we made you got to look at it this way. We made the album called hol Looas, which is very folky, very singer songwriter. It was it was really just that some songs Daryl had, some songs that I had, and we were just like, Okay, we've got a record country, We've got to do something. We'll play these because that's what we got. It really wasn't until the abandoned Luncheon Net that we made an album that really was coherent, you know, in terms of the vibe. And so then we did those two albums, neither of which were commercially successful. So we went and just did a left turn and did a progressive rock album with Todd Runggerns.

00:19:33
Speaker 1: Both war babies.

00:19:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, we had no mandate to keep doing the same things. Well, if people don't like what we're doing, was just do something else. And then you know, then at that point, I think Atlantic had signed the average White band and they kind of had that thing that they wanted from us. And I love the I love those guys, but it just seemed like we had broken the mold there and I love Atlantic Records, and I was really proud to be part of that and be with a Reef Mardin, the great producer. But then we you know, we got a better deal at RCA, so we jumped ship and there you go.

00:20:08
Speaker 1: Did you you hear from anyone at Atlantic when the Silver album ended up doing what it did.

00:20:13
Speaker 2: No, they just immediately released She's Gone Again.

00:20:17
Speaker 1: So you know that there was a bit of them that was, hey, you know what, I'm glad they did. Yeah, yeah, I read at that time too, when you guys were looking you leaving Atlantic, You're going to go somewhere else. You guys met with Clive Davis.

00:20:32
Speaker 2: That wasn't until later.

00:20:33
Speaker 1: It wasn't untill later. Okay, you did meet with Clive the time.

00:20:35
Speaker 2: Timeline's a little off, Sorry, Okay, we met. We met with him later on. Actually in the early early eighties, when we started to have success on our commercial level, it was it was really you know, that's I don't even like to talk about it because it was a total business thing.

00:20:51
Speaker 3: You know.

00:20:51
Speaker 2: It was our manager. It was our manager looking for more money.

00:20:54
Speaker 1: Basically, Okay, all right, let's get these.

00:20:56
Speaker 2: Guys pre signed to another label, even before they can leave the label they're own.

00:21:00
Speaker 1: Got it, got it. I was just thinking about it because you know an addition, I mean, obviously Atlantic feels like it would have been a really good fit for your sound, not that our say wasn't. Obviously you guys did very well, But then I was also thinking like, oh yeah, Clive would be would have been an interesting place for you guys to land in away, because I'm sure.

00:21:14
Speaker 2: It didn't work very well with Clive. Clive wanted to micromanage the song selection and things like that, but that that's what he does and he's very good at it, and his track record speaks for itself, of course, but with us, it wasn't. It wasn't a good fit.

00:21:27
Speaker 1: Did you ever get that from RCA, that feel of they want.

00:21:30
Speaker 2: To We always were able to keep the record labels at arm's length. On the creative side. We made the albums we wanted to make in the way we wanted to make them. We made our album covers, and then we just said here, here's here it is, sell it, go sell it, figure it out.

00:21:45
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, so you can't do that anymore? Well, no, not quite.

00:21:50
Speaker 2: Record labels have their their a little their grubby little paws and everything.

00:21:54
Speaker 1: Not not quite. So I want to go back to Sunny Terry and BROWNI McGee though, just talk about their cue it is I want to go that song. What was it like writing that song with Joe Henry, because that's a it's not quite how you got You didn't really co write you and Darryl so much, right, it was more you did.

00:22:13
Speaker 2: Certain certain songs we did and certain songs we didn't. It was interesting with Joe Henry. We didn't really know each other. He brought up this incredible idea, which immediately I realized was not the idea. I realized that the idea was a bigger idea then. I think his vision was to write a song about them, and I My vision was to write a song with them as the vehicle for something else. And I don't think Joe actually knew what we were writing about, because I knew exactly what I wanted to write, and he was there. He's a great lyricist, and he kept, you know, kept honing and refining, and we'd come up with lines, and you know, he was a really really detailed, great detailed guy because he's not necessarily a musician. He didn't play an instrument. But I knew the whole time that there was a bigger idea behind them, and that Sunny Terry and Brownie McGee were just the vehicle to get there.

00:23:09
Speaker 1: You're sitting there with the guitar, and so he doesn't play, so he's.

00:23:12
Speaker 2: Just he's writing lyrics on a yellow legal pad.

00:23:15
Speaker 1: And you're going through some changes and coming up with changes.

00:23:17
Speaker 2: We're talking about stuff, and then we went away from from each other for a while and I started to really hone in on the story. And then I come back and I play some stuff, and I say what about this? You know, and and the lines like you know, the stuff like uh, you know, talk about getting even talk about sticks and stones.

00:23:38
Speaker 4: Philosophers are full.

00:23:39
Speaker 2: Of rolling dash with loaded bones rather too brother, too gay when they're there.

00:23:47
Speaker 1: Gee, I wonder what that's about?

00:23:50
Speaker 2: Is it?

00:23:51
Speaker 1: It's pretty obvious?

00:23:52
Speaker 2: Okay, So I was blending my experience using this great idea that Joe came up with to get somewhere else.

00:24:02
Speaker 1: Did Joe not realize it's like, who I'm talking to a guy who he realized that after the fact, Okay, famous dua. Well he's smart, yeah, yeah, you know.

00:24:11
Speaker 2: But it was just a thing that I It was I realized there was this way of saying something without being overt.

00:24:19
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, and and to your point also, it's again this time day and time where there's a feeling widely of scarcity and everyone wanting to just you know, fight for themselves and not it's like this this idea that no, we're actually interdependent, you know, as as people. And so there's also this larger, kind of beautiful message as well as this kind of more personal thing. That's so it just makes it this really and the changes and very cool song so.

00:24:48
Speaker 2: Folks, with some sophisticated, cored changes thrown in there.

00:24:50
Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, there was a period of time, I mean, your first solo album. You have a new one coming out oats in just a couple of days, you know, as we're taping this, it'll be out by the time this this we we this airs and I want to talk about that. But you know, your soul, you didn't really make a solo album until two thousand and one. That's right.

00:25:14
Speaker 2: Started in two thousand, came out in one.

00:25:16
Speaker 1: Was what happened in an intervening time between well, you know.

00:25:21
Speaker 2: At the end of the eighties with Daryl and I were burned out after we finished the Apollo Theater show with Eddie Kendrick and David Ruffin from Temptations got about that. Yeah, that was a high point. I think it was a full circle moment for both Darryl and myself. We bonded early on as teenagers over our love of The Temptations. Darryl actually was in a group called the temp Tones that was kind of sponsored by, not really sponsored by, but he was friends with those guys the original group.

00:25:52
Speaker 1: And wait, really the Temptones was loosely connected junior varsity version of yeah, Yeah, yeah what and Sure.

00:26:00
Speaker 2: In fact, one of the first things Darryl and I did together we went to the Apollo Theater in New York, went backstage, hung out with The Temptations in the dressing room, and then sat in the front row watched their show, which I've of course seen seen them before in the original group. Then flash forward to the eighty five eighty six, we're opening reopening the Apollo after the renovation, and we did a special show for the NAACP and we wanted to do something special, so we found Eddie. Eddie was singing holiday inns down in Alabama. David was in Detroit somewhere. I don't know what he was doing. Nothing and we asked them to come and reprise the Temptations metally, and we did that on the on the Apollo Show. After we did that, I remember after that show, Darryl and I, you know, it was a big hubbub backstays, a lot of press and a lot of friends, and I remember us sitting quietly in a corner and it was almost like we realized that it was done, that we had we had completed the circle, you know, and there wasn't much to be said, but I know we both knew it, and I was you know, you have to remember, we made our first album in seventy two, so now go to eighty six. We made an album every year from seventy two to eighty six, and sometimes more than one because the greatest hits albums and live albums and things like that. And we toured in between every album and never ever stopped. So you're talking about, you know what, fifteen years straight of touring without ever stopping, not once, And it was like, I knew there was something missing in my life person, and then I'm just talking to my own point of view, and I just wanted to stop. And so that's what we did in the end, of the eighties, which was commercially, from a career point of view, probably the worst thing you could possibly have done. When we were riding on top of the world, guys are.

00:27:55
Speaker 1: Like killing it.

00:27:56
Speaker 2: I mean, we were on top of the pop world, right, but we basically just stopped. And it was then I began to rethink certain things like personal life and stuff like that. So we ended up making another record, made a record called Ooh Yeah in like eighty eight. I want to say, it wasn't much. It had like a semi hit single, my heart wasn't in it. And then we made an album called Change of Season. And that album just the title alone can tell you about the kind of where, at least from my point of view, where I was coming from. And I was ready to for something else. I didn't have a life, you know. I had a professional a great professional life, but I had burned a lot of bridges, you know, you know in the process, and I got divorced. Our manager left. Tommy Mottola, who was our manager, went to Sony Music or to CBS at the time, became the president of CBS. He took off on other other other paths with Mariah et cetera, and there was. It was like a rudderless ship, and so I just checked out. I sold everything I had left New York City, moved into my little condo and askeding Colorado, and I met my future wife, build a house, had a kid, and so for the entire decade of the nineties, I went skiing, and I went bike riding and hiking and backcountry skiing, and I lived a different life. And I realized that music could be part of my life, not just the only thing in my life. So it was probably the most important thing I ever did. And Colorado saved me because I don't know what would have happened if I would have stayed in New York. I think bad things would happen. Really, I would have gone down some dark paths. Was there a part of you when you're in Colorado five years into this self imposed sabbatical exile from the industry, that feels like no, done it? No, No, that's wonderful. The best thing ever happened to me. I didn't even make any music. We made one album in ninety six. Our son had just been born. I wasn't into it. I threw in a couple songs, and yeah, we did a short tour. It was nothing, and then nothing happened until the two thousands, and that's what I made my first solo album. It's also when Daryl and I made made an album, another album that did fairly well. But at that point now I had realized that something needed to change, and so.

00:30:21
Speaker 1: The first solo album Functual Funk Shuay.

00:30:26
Speaker 2: Hey, listen, listen. Let me tell you about that real quick. I got to I remember getting a review on that album. The review was like, it's pretty good record with an unfortunate title, you know how the and the title was so stupid. Okay. I had a good friend of mine, Jed Lieber, who's actually who I borrowed this guitar from. He runs the studio at the Sunset Marquee and he's he's a fantastic musician. And he and I were doing that album together and we were on a plane going to New York to finish it, mix it, and we had no title for it. And Jed was sitting he happened to be sitting next to this Asian gal and I was sitting, you know, a few a few rows away, and I guess he was talking to her and she said, well, what do you what do you you know, what are you doing? He goes, oh, I made a record, and he goes and she said, what kind of record? He goes, well, it's kind of got some funk in it, and she went, oh, like funk shway, and I swear to God and he comes running up the aisle and he taps you show. He goes, I got the title. I went, really, And I was stupid enough to believe him, you know, to do it. But I thought it was funny.

00:31:27
Speaker 1: So it's kind of cooler way of it is it is. It's not is that a super self serious you know?

00:31:31
Speaker 2: It's good anyway. So that album was and here again, that album is just a way of getting started because it was just a collection of stuff I had. It wasn't coherent. It really wasn't until I made the next album, One Thousand Miles of Life in Nashville, that I began to really hone in on what I was going to be as a solo artist.

00:31:48
Speaker 1: Had you moved to Nashville at that point, No, I.

00:31:51
Speaker 2: Was spending a lot of time there. I started going to Nashville in the late nineties.

00:31:54
Speaker 1: Okay, tell me about that.

00:31:55
Speaker 2: Well, I had I produced an album for a guy named Jerry Lynn Williams, an amazing artist who lived in Tulsa, Oklahoma, but he had his business and his publishing and based in Nashville. Through working with him, I met some Nashville folks and somebody, you know, said, Hey, you gotta come, you gotta come to music City. You gotta. I think you're gonna like it.

00:32:18
Speaker 11: You like it.

00:32:19
Speaker 2: And when I went there for the first time in the late nineties, I did a couple demo sessions and the players were just so good, and it was a whole different thing because you know, up to that time, early seventies, I had never played in any other band. I was in the Whole Notes band, so all I did was that and it was great, but and with great musicians, of course, But all of a sudden I was walked into a completely new environment, and all of a sudden I realized that the players I was playing with had a lot of the same roots and influences as my early folk stuff. So it kind of it took that side of me that I had set aside for all those years, and I started bringing it out. And because then I would sit down, you know, with some of these guys and I played like a dog watch and they go, I know you could do that.

00:33:07
Speaker 1: I said, well, yeah, I can.

00:33:09
Speaker 2: I kind of forgot about it, but I want to remember.

00:33:11
Speaker 1: So it was the shock to everyone else too in some ways.

00:33:14
Speaker 2: And so but one of the first things I realized in Nashville was my name and reputation might get me in the door, but in order to stay at the party, I better be able to bring it. Because you're talking about a level of musicianship on a whole other level. And I was complacent. I could play the whole Notes show in my sleep, wasn't doing anything but that. And I needed a challenge, and I was all of a sudden, I was thrust into rooms with superlative players Jerry Douglas, Sam Bush By La Fleck, you know, people you know, and the great studio musicians. You know, got three trapped people who could really play. And so I started wood shedding. I started practicing again, and I started bringing back that folk stuff, the early influences, and I realized, wait a minute, the key that was the key that unlocked who I could be as a solo artist, because I didn't know it could be because my entire musical personality was wrapped up in my collaboration with Right.

00:34:14
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, did did that then affect the way that you approached going back and playing on Hollan Oates tours? Yeah?

00:34:22
Speaker 2: I didn't want to do it, Okay, I did it because you know, the money was great and there was a demand.

00:34:28
Speaker 1: For it, people and people. Of course, I took my daughter to see you guys, hey listen first her first show and Aspen Jazz Fest like in seventeen.

00:34:37
Speaker 2: I remember we played that. Yeah, yeah, well, you know what. It was great, But I've really felt like I was treading water. I mean, we had we had the most unbelievable problem. We had too many hits.

00:34:49
Speaker 1: Wow is that a problem?

00:34:51
Speaker 2: Because that's all people wanted to hear. They didn't want to hear anything else. So even though we had a tremendously deep catalog, and I'll speak for Darryl on this too, he had unbelievable songs that he was dying to play, we couldn't play him every show. We'd chewhorn one song in one song, you know, some obscure Oats song, and then we do one of his obscure you know, solo songs or whatever. And I'm sure it was just as frustrating for him as it was for me. But as time went on and I began to be excited about what I could do in Nashville with the players, and you know, the opportunity that might started presenting themselves, I just couldn't do it anymore.

00:35:34
Speaker 1: After this last break, we'll be back with John Oates. Do you think there's a world if the audience, the Hollan Oats audience had been more accepting of what you guys wanted to present, do you think it would have interesting question?

00:35:53
Speaker 2: You know, the hardcore holl of Oats fans would have been but we weren't playing only to hardcore. We were playing to the general public, and a lot of them. When you're playing an arena, a big Giants show, fifteen eighteen thousand people, they're not all hardcore fans. There's a hardcore group, and they would have been open to anything. I always found the the true hall Odes fans were very open minded. But we we were more than that. We yeah, you know, bigger than both of us. Yes, there's the title of an album. There's a great, great ale and it and it says a lot.

00:36:29
Speaker 1: What's opening track on that? That's a great song too, and that was that.

00:36:32
Speaker 2: Was bigger than both of us. Was a single, was it?

00:36:35
Speaker 1: The first track was uh yeah, back together of course, back together again, back together.

00:36:39
Speaker 2: You want to hear a story about that?

00:36:40
Speaker 1: Please?

00:36:41
Speaker 2: Everybody thinks back together again, back together again? Probably talking about me and Daryl or something like that, huhuh, not even clothes. I was on a flight. I was sitting in first class coming back from New Orleans from a festival, I think, and I was sitting next to Frankie Valley, amazing, and he and I talked a whole way on the flight, and he told me the whole story, you know, the Jersey Boards story about you know, the problem with his you know, his daughter and the band and this and that and how he you know, he wanted to step away in anyone. And that's what it's about. It's about back together again, singing the same old story, back together again. The old songs never end, but it will give me something to believe in. And I wrote the whole song about him, about what he told me on that flight.

00:37:30
Speaker 1: That's wild, yeah, I mean, is that a song you guys would play live?

00:37:33
Speaker 2: We we actually used to open the show with it, especially in the mid seventies. Yeah, yeah, and we played it even as early as maybe three four years ago or latest three four years ago.

00:37:45
Speaker 1: Is there a world naively? No, No, not even doing that deep No.

00:37:53
Speaker 2: As Darre Hall so aptly said on an interview, that ship has sailed. In fact, he said, and I quote, not only has that ship has sailed, it's sunk to the bottom of the ocean looking up. I didn't say it, he did.

00:38:06
Speaker 1: Does that? What end do you feel? Is that you hear that? You think? Yeah?

00:38:10
Speaker 2: Same, I'm free yea, yeah, I'm very very I'm very optimistic. Look, anyone's creative life has a timestamp. That's the way I look at it. I see I see our contemporaries, my contemporaries falling by the wayside, whether it's through passing away or just not being able to do it anymore for any number of reasons, sickness, bad luck, misfortune.

00:38:32
Speaker 1: Whatever.

00:38:33
Speaker 2: I can still play, I can still sing, I can travel, I'm still healthy. I don't want to lose this opportunity to do as much as I can because they're but for fortune.

00:38:45
Speaker 1: Go you or I? Right?

00:38:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it could change, could change right now. I could walk out this door and fall down the elevator, shift and see you later by So I don't have much time left. I want to make the most of it.

00:38:57
Speaker 1: It's amazing in a way. It's like you're back in Colorado, but you're able to do it with your own music. So you're doing music on your own terms, and that's beautiful. Can you play something from your from your new album Oates?

00:39:07
Speaker 2: Sure?

00:39:09
Speaker 1: Whatever your favorite. I'm curious what your favorite might be.

00:39:11
Speaker 2: Oh, okay, yeah, I do have a favorite. I've got a lot of favorites. Because I'm really proud of this record. I'm gonna play a song that I co wrote with a really a great talented guy named Jed Hughes. Jed is one of the go to top Nashville session guitarists. He plays on tons of people's records if he's from Australia, but he plays predominantly on country music. But he's also a great songwriter in his own He and I. I was really impressed with him and I, you know, we talked about getting together and his schedule and my schedule were so busy we couldn't find a time to get together. And we kept we kept picking a date and he'd say, oh, I can't do that one. And I hear he picked and I said, well, no, I'm out of town, and blah blah blah. So eventually we just said, look, we're never gonna be able to get together unless we picked some date that's a ways away from you know, And I went aways away and I said to him on the phone, I said, that's a freaking great title. And he went, yeah, that's that's cool. I said, So when we finally do get together, that's a song we're gonna write. I don't know what it's gonna be.

00:40:14
Speaker 1: That's the song. So you earmarked it and you came back there.

00:40:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, all right, just goes a little. I'm gonna try. It's a tough song to sing, but I'm gonna do my best.

00:40:24
Speaker 1: Here.

00:40:38
Speaker 4: You say it's hard to stay, it's enough to me to talk. Don't talking about Anything's used to be those heavy moment and it's just skip common we call sleep and finished. We just kN hear the words.

00:41:07
Speaker 2: I can't even think.

00:41:08
Speaker 5: You'll see if you aren't any why did we could get one playing?

00:41:16
Speaker 4: Because it's not black or blood. It's just a good shade. It's a great and raise.

00:41:23
Speaker 12: A ways awaken just the way, it's just the way it is, just the way it is. You're a raise a home, he's always.

00:41:45
Speaker 7: Just the way.

00:41:50
Speaker 13: Let's bring it back into the room. Let's break it down and put us back here to.

00:42:01
Speaker 4: The sweet man. Everything is keeping.

00:42:09
Speaker 8: Well, boss a finnishly whether they just keep you better? Were the time the time wins.

00:42:23
Speaker 5: Can't imagine that I could be able to keep anything because it's not the black or lad.

00:42:31
Speaker 4: It's just a d in shades break ways already.

00:42:41
Speaker 12: Raise a wedding just the ways of just the ways or just the way.

00:42:46
Speaker 4: Is a bread were raising.

00:42:54
Speaker 12: Ways a wedding is the rais uh just the way.

00:43:13
Speaker 4: You wisl never thought it keeping man got any say just the way he's just the way his h just the way he is. Way sweet man, really is keep coming sweet escape come yeah you wasel.

00:43:56
Speaker 1: I love the way you play man. Oh thanks, I really do think you those kinds of chords, Yeah, people don't really, I don't not wht of people play like that anymore. Where do you get those what do you get those kinds of quality?

00:44:07
Speaker 11: You know what?

00:44:07
Speaker 2: I gotta give Daryl Hall some some props here because when I, you know, here, I was a folky player. You know, I'm doing all these cowboy chords, you know, and uh, you know, he was a great piano player. He is a great piano player, and he played some unusual inversions. He would always do substitutions and stuff. And I had to figure that out on the guitar and adapt to my guitar playing style. In fact, when I first got to Nashville, a lot of a lot of people said, oh, well, you kind of play like a piano player. And I was like, well, yeah, it's kind of reason for that. So yeah, full props there. But and over the time, I've adapted and you know, changed my style. Uh and I just I do a lot of more sophisticated voicings and stuff like that.

00:44:51
Speaker 1: Even back. So would you say your your style has changed from even.

00:44:55
Speaker 2: Well, it's gotten it's definitely gotten more sophisticated now.

00:44:58
Speaker 1: Yeah.

00:44:59
Speaker 2: Also, as I said, I began to woodshed when I got to Nashville, playing practice like a madman, just to keep up with those cats.

00:45:06
Speaker 1: Yeah and yeah, so what does woodshedding look like for you?

00:45:09
Speaker 7: You?

00:45:09
Speaker 2: Uh, practicing playing every day pretty much.

00:45:12
Speaker 11: What you just listened listening to records and playing or no, just you know, just exercises for the fingers, you know, you know, all kinds of weird exercises, you know, stuff like that, just stuff that keeps you know, as I said, you know, I'm getting older.

00:45:30
Speaker 2: You know, I want to make sure my fingers still work.

00:45:32
Speaker 1: And so you know, I do that.

00:45:34
Speaker 2: And really, my my practicing really is more songwriting, you know, I'm I'm I start writing stuff, you know, Like there's a song that I collaborated on the record with Lawrence the band. I don't know if you know Lawrence. They're so great. And I challenged myself to write a song that sounded like them because I was inspired by their music. I was listening to their albums and really digging the fact that they had so much energy and joy and and I really and I said, so I was sitting around, I'm going to see if I can write a song of sounds. And then when I wrote the song, it sounded so much like them. I actually took some of their lyrics from one of their songs, put it in my song and send it to them. And and I said, hey, I just want to let you know I'm not trying to rip you off. I want I want to collaborate with you, and they liked the idea and we did it together.

00:46:19
Speaker 1: So it's great. So that's so cool. That's great feedback, fro it could be kind of dice. Yeah, well I took a chance, you know, I took a shot. Yeah.

00:46:27
Speaker 2: I figured they send me an email and say, yeah, you know, yeah, it's a pretty good song. But we don't really feel like doing a song with someone as old as our grandfather.

00:46:33
Speaker 1: So listen, man, what's your John Oates?

00:46:36
Speaker 2: Come on, Clyde and Gracie Lawrence are they are fantastic. They're fantastic people and amazing artists.

00:46:42
Speaker 1: That's so cool, man. I want to get back to Nashville, But I kind of preview it earlier. I mean, you guys, have you Let's say, you got to experience some really unique scenes throughout over the years, one of them being a really changing New York scene. You guys made war Babies in New York when CBGB was with Todd Runger with Todd Runggren, Like when like, you know, television's playing every night, and I used to go to all those places and you would see that, you'd see all those groups, right, sure, what I mean, did you have a favorite was were you turned off by the music? What was I was?

00:47:18
Speaker 2: I was excited by a new wave and that kind of proto punk movement, only because it was new, not because I related to it on a musical level. I thought it was, you know, fairly simplistic and kind of like although I always like television, I like the guitar parts. They were really interesting. But you know, Patti Smith and and all that stuff that was going on. It was it was you know, it was like non melodic but exciting because it was it was new and fresh, so that was the cool part. I mean, I tried to I try to use the here again the inspiration for the energy of what they were doing, but not try to ape what they were actually doing, because I didn't want to, like try to be something I wasn't, you know. I wrote a song like I was a big fan of the Psychedelic First and I still am good friends with Richard Butler and uh and uh. I love them, and I try to write a song it sounded like I remember a song called Friday let Me Down Tonight, which well, it's it's to me. It sounds like Psychedelic First. Richard Butler probably doesn't think so, but you know, that was just one of those things where I, you know, try to try to capture that kind of spirit. But uh no, I think you got to stay true to the school, to your school, you know what I mean. Yeah, you know, it's it's one thing to try things, but at the same time, you got to know where where your sweet spots are.

00:48:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, so energetically you but energetically that's energetically a fan. Yeah, a fan. You go like right from there to your to your point earlier where you come to La to record the silver album. You go like to almost like the diametrically opposing vibe in the sense, and and it's like but then you're hanging out with weird people, like not weird people, but like people you might not expect what's like like Frank Zapp, but you know, you're like, like, what the world?

00:49:12
Speaker 2: You know, it's really funny Frank Zappa. We were sitting at the Roxy with Frank Zappa and John Mayle, right or something that John Mayle and all those people. You know, it's the seventies, you know. I remember we sat at a booth. Me and Daryl were sitting at a booth with Frank Zappa, after a show, and Frank Zappa said, I remember never forgetting he said, he said, you know, you guys, you guys should should stop making records and have a television show. That's what he said. Interestingly enough, Daryl listened to him. Daryl got his life.

00:49:45
Speaker 1: From decades later. That actually would have been a great idea. By the way, well, I think he's probably right, you guys.

00:49:51
Speaker 2: That had it like a but we didn't do too bad on the recording sign.

00:49:54
Speaker 1: No you didn't.

00:49:54
Speaker 2: No, Frank, you know, Frank Zappa was a real futurist. I mean he really, I mean I see some of these interviews and stuff that he did back in the day talking about I mean he really was like.

00:50:07
Speaker 1: What was going on the internet and artists, right, yeah, really brilliant. Yeah, his music was like that must have been a that didn't didn't mean anything to didn't resonate. No, yeah, very very very uh.

00:50:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, although I did like Captain b part what really.

00:50:23
Speaker 1: That's even more to be honest, like LA in the seventies, unbelievable? What yeah? What was that so good? What was that?

00:50:32
Speaker 11: Like?

00:50:32
Speaker 2: I can't tell you, I can't tell you I get arrested.

00:50:38
Speaker 1: Do you miss it?

00:50:40
Speaker 2: I thought, I thought was I thought LA in the seventies was like going to like going to Nirvana. The roads were empty, you could drive, You could drive to freaking Mexico in an hour and forty five minutes.

00:50:54
Speaker 4: You could.

00:50:56
Speaker 2: He could just do whatever you wanted to and everybody was loose and cool and it was it was just yeah, it was fun. I mean, we did three albums out here and we didn't live here, but we spent months, you know, renting houses and things like that while we were recording.

00:51:12
Speaker 1: And at the time.

00:51:15
Speaker 2: There was a guy named Christopher Bond who was in our band in the early seventies. He had moved to LA to make his way as a producer, very talented guy, and after the word Babies thing with Todd Runggren, when that didn't connect, you know, he said, you guys need to come out here. He goes, I've got the studios, I've got the great players, I've got it all wired. Come out here will make a great record. And we listened to him, and we did. And we had the cream of the crop of the LA session players on the Silver album, and the bigger than both of us. And it was amazing to be in the studio with these great you know, Jeff Bercuero, Lea Scalar, we had them all, I mean, every Jim Gordon, you know, all these amazing musicians and Sarah Smile and Rich Girl and that they came from those sessions, and so it was great. It was really great to do that. But at the same time, I think what it was pointing at was that we needed to really take control of our own music and get out of that paradigm where the artist's over here and the record company appoints a producer and the producers responsible for the artists. It was an old, an old fashioned, you know, paradigm. And so by time, you know, we were working with David Foster in the late seventies, right, And I remember one session we were doing in the late seventies, David said, I don't know what I'm doing here. You guys are making this record yourself. And we're like, yeah, I guess we are. That's what we're going to do. So and that led to the eighties, and of course you know the commercial success.

00:52:47
Speaker 1: Yeah, there a similarity between what was going on with that sort of those studio guys here in LA in the seventies, with the Nashville scene.

00:52:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, well just in terms of quality, in terms of the musicianship in quality, Yeah, they were at pros.

00:53:00
Speaker 1: The number of they were just super.

00:53:02
Speaker 2: They just came in and played, you know, and you know, and it's not and it's not just the playing. It's not just the gil of the technique or they're playing. It's the way they listen. It's their equipment when you do a session in Nashville. You know, Vince Gill told me when I first moved there, he said, if you're going to be producing songs, you know, in Nashville, he says, he says, You've got to think of yourself as like a director of a movie. It's not who you choose. It's not the best guitar player to choose, or the best bass player or drummer, because they're all good. It's who's the exact right player for that moment, for that song, to serve that song. And it takes time to learn who they are and experience them and kind of pull together your rolodex, so to speak, you know, and yeah, and that's what you do. You just you know, and now I can handpick the you know, if I need a pedal steel player there's two guys that I'm always going to go to and depends on which which ones available and which one's right and keyboards and drums and it's all.

00:54:05
Speaker 1: This, you know, And it's almost a crazy way to work there.

00:54:07
Speaker 2: You could craft and craft the music you want to make and know that they're going to deliver it for you. Wow, you know, and they have all the guitars and the pedal boards and the sounds and you know, and and they're there there. It's a real pleasure to walk into a room and just have the support knowing that these guys are going to deliver. Yeah.

00:54:29
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's a toy you on. Now you do do a tour where it's you and three Yeah, acoustic tour an acoustic quartet, which I've been doing for the last two and a half years. Is that what you're doing tomorrow at the now it's a full electric band.

00:54:41
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're kicking ass tomorrow.

00:54:42
Speaker 1: Can't wait?

00:54:44
Speaker 3: What what?

00:54:44
Speaker 1: What tunes do you do with the acoustic quartet?

00:54:47
Speaker 2: Well through Sanitary and Brownie McGee to also all kinds of stuff I do, you know, I do some folky stuff. I do a John Prime song, you know, I mean just like it's it's a much more loose and it's much more it's much more a storyteller show where I tell these really long involved stories about I do some Mississippi John Hurd, I do some doc wats. So yeah, it's a much more laid back. I'm sitting down. I got an acoustic guitar, I got a cello, pedal, steel percussion, and then it was time to put the acoustic away, grab my strat, plug it into an amp and crank it up a little bit. So yeah, this new band is much more of a kind of R and B soul band.

00:55:27
Speaker 1: Any of the same guys are totally.

00:55:29
Speaker 2: Only the drummer.

00:55:29
Speaker 1: That's awesome.

00:55:30
Speaker 7: Man.

00:55:30
Speaker 2: We've only done about five shows, six shows.

00:55:32
Speaker 1: That's that's I mean the experience, the experience you have like over the years. Play like I imagine when you go to play like a troubador now, it's like it's got to be so much fun.

00:55:44
Speaker 2: To I love playing small venues. I love playing small venues. It's it's musical, it's it's the people are right there, the energy's there, you know. Uh yeah, I mean I've really especially on the acoustic tour, it's playing small theaters was the sweet spot because it's a you know, people are sitting, they're coming, they're sitting to listen to stories and they want to be comfortable. And the sound is great because it's a theater, it's made for music. I really don't like playing a reiness and things like that. It just feels disjointed and feel removed from the crowd and it feels more like a spectacle where it's not as musical.

00:56:21
Speaker 1: Man, well, are you open to ending with another tune? I could do a push in a rock Yeah, great the new version.

00:56:29
Speaker 2: Yeah, but damn, I wish I could sing better. I'm I'm really kind of this coldest bother me.

00:56:35
Speaker 4: But keep push. Can't have a brother. Kenyon laying today feels out of murding. Ken You understink it because he keep his mouth pride when I had out of here lie everything alive.

00:57:22
Speaker 12: Something I get going through back with the good made some mistakes, I mean, the understand.

00:57:29
Speaker 2: N't down trying to turn her and bids to get back onside.

00:57:34
Speaker 4: And rykeep borrowing hard. Shugar ship should do like bole Kid when.

00:57:41
Speaker 5: It rolls back down this google with it, Try Google with a puson us didn't nobody when he looks back down, google with it and keep your head held high.

00:58:04
Speaker 1: I keep trying and trying.

00:58:06
Speaker 4: Keep your eyes on the price on the rocks.

00:58:09
Speaker 5: On got holy pet bet you keep on something drip of water covering the rook.

00:58:17
Speaker 4: Gainst rather.

00:58:20
Speaker 1: Light that you hard, but she keeps that in time.

00:58:24
Speaker 4: Then hit him. Try to help the brother jat to it.

00:58:32
Speaker 14: Shut put it rock with the goblet there, do you have.

00:58:49
Speaker 4: A you got gooble that the problem the couple there, something that's coming up, sons couple who don't happen. If I keep on pushing it, I can't turn this whole thing stepinite, two steps to hide. If I just face every day.

00:59:20
Speaker 2: I get back on my feet in time.

00:59:24
Speaker 15: Id su supers pas you on the rock, but you have a figure that lead.

00:59:55
Speaker 1: Keep on.

00:59:58
Speaker 7: A rock.

01:00:01
Speaker 1: Don't you ever give up? Maybe just.

01:00:07
Speaker 3: The baby.

01:00:14
Speaker 1: Said, baby baby is that's sweet man. When you hit that, keep on pushing in that falsetto. I remember that's my Curtis Mayfield. I was gonna say, I remember you and you do a version of Gypsy Woman. To do it live my one of my favorite songs.

01:00:36
Speaker 3: So cool, Yeah, loan there through the Cabravan down the cab fire, love liking one man in Mo shut.

01:00:55
Speaker 4: Stops a knight, right.

01:01:01
Speaker 12: That girl?

01:01:02
Speaker 8: Can it?

01:01:19
Speaker 1: Did you ever get to meet Curtis or impressions or anything?

01:01:22
Speaker 3: Well?

01:01:22
Speaker 2: I was a huge fan though.

01:01:23
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, did you ever see him or anything? Yeah you did.

01:01:26
Speaker 2: I saw him live at the Uptown Theater in Philadelphia, solo gigs.

01:01:31
Speaker 1: With the impressions. The impressions. Oh man, that's amazing, so good, one of the best. And man, thank you so much, so great that.

01:01:38
Speaker 2: It was a great interview. I appreciate it.

01:01:40
Speaker 1: No, thank you.

01:01:41
Speaker 2: Just to really go some places.

01:01:42
Speaker 1: Thank you really looking forward to this.

01:01:43
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me right and I'm sorry I wasn't at my best because I'm honestly, I just feel like I can't sing very well.

01:01:49
Speaker 1: But no, we're two guys not at our best right now.

01:01:51
Speaker 4: Okay, we did it.

01:01:53
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.

01:01:54
Speaker 2: The secret. Don't tell anybody. See if we fooled him again?

01:01:57
Speaker 7: Right?

01:01:57
Speaker 1: We think we did. I think we did. That was a real real pleasure. Man. Don't miss the episode description, where you'll find a playlist of our favorite John Oaks songs plus his new and remember subscribe to YouTube dot com slash Broken Record podcast for all of our video interviews, and be sure to follow us on Instagram at the Broken Record Pop. You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is produced and edited by Leah Rose, with marketing and help from Eric Sandler and Jordan McMillan. Our engineer is Ben Tomaday. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content and ad free listening for four ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and if you like this show, please remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app. Our theme music's by Kenny Beeats. I'm justin Richmond.