Introducing Louder Than A Riot

00:00:15 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey everyone, it's justin. Today we're sharing a fantastic episode from another podcast, we love, Louder Than a Riot. If y'all don't know about this show, let me put you on game mpr is. Louder Than a Riot is an award winning narrative hip hop podcast that connects the stories of the biggest artists and innovators in the genre to socio political changes we're going through right now. This season, Louder Than a Riot is tackling the connection between hip hop and misogyny. Hosted by the great Sydney Madden and Rodney Carmichael, this team is digging into the unwritten rules of rap that have marginalized Black women for decades and highlighting the rule breakers who refuse to play nice. In this episode, you're about to hear, Louder Than a Riot tells the story of the first female mc mc shaw Rock. She's a rapper from the Bronx and former member of the Funky Four plus one More who laid the foundations of rap as we know it. But even though she's a pioneer, Shaw's name often gets left out of conversations around the history of hip hop. Why's that because decades ago, sha Rock had to deal with the hurdles that so many women in raps still face today, getting tokenized by her peers and played by the industry. You're about to hear the story from the people who lived it, interviews with shah Rock herself, along with rappers she inspired like DMC, also historical experts like author Clover Hope. This episode is a meditation on legacy. Who gets afforded a legacy in hip hop? Who gets left out? And how can you reclaim a legacy stolen from you? We hope you enjoyed this episode as much as we did. You can listen to more episodes from Louder than a Riot, from MPR Music wherever you listen to podcasts a morning before we begin. This podcast is explicit in every way. Okay, so yeah, So this is the Bronx Music Heritage Center. Um, it's giving very much Bronx after school, painted piano, drum set, community center, vibes, posters everywhere, good crowd, que crowds where the younger people A'm here, definitely here. I'm here with my producer Monos and reson to see a Bronx hip hop legend. There's a small crowd in the community center. Grandmaster Cast of the Cold Crush Brothers is cutting it up on the turntables. As we make the rounds to get a sense of who's here, we see an older white man in the front row. What's her name? Charles Teleres, and what do you know about shar Rock? I was really into hippop, but I got into it later. I didn't know about her, I thought was her first question. Kaz fades out the music and people start quieting down. The Woman of the Hour takes the stage. Her name is MC sha Rock. We are so happy to have on the stay the first female MC is they were for those of you. Ja's got a big shades, gold hoop earrings and a black leather jacket. The way she commands the room, you can definitely tell she was raising the Bronx. I was the first female MC to help move hip hop culture with little or no resources. I said the blue print, and I say that humbly. But y'all gott to know the truth. Y'all gott to know the truth, especially when we're talking about the Bronx, especially when we're talking about the history of the Bronx. Y'all gott to know the truth. There were other female them sees that came out in nineteen seventy nine. I'm the first feman I'm see that have a record deal, authentic female set to have a reckon deal, the first thing I see on national television Saturday Night Live. Yeah, but I'll say some of course, But hold on. If you haven't heard of MC sha Rock, member of the Funky four plus one more and the first female MC, You're not alone. There's some specific reasons why. See. Some people get a race from history, but Shan was never in it to begin with. Part of the reason was because she was laying the foundations for hip hop before it was even really being documented. Yeah, but the bigger reason is because she was treated like an accessory and an afterthought. This season is about how hard it is to be a woman in rap today, but imagine what it must have feel like to be a woman doing it in the genres infancy now. Shar Rock was no stranger to the spotlight. During her heyday. In nineteen eighty one, she and a group, the Funky Four plus one became some of the first mcs to bring hip hop to the mainstream when they took center stage on Saturday Night Live. The next group are among the best street rappers in the country. Please welcome my friends from the Brons, the Funky Four plus one more. That night should have submitted Shaw's legacy, but it didn't. Instead, it led to her group's downfall. They wouldn't talk to me, They didn't want to say anything to me. They was like, really fall back. I mean there was really no conversation, but like, why would you do that? Shot Rock? You know, and the reason why shows story. It's really where all these double standards started. I'm Rodney car Michael, I'm Sidney Madden and from NPR Music. This is louder than the riot where we confront the double standard does become the standard. On every episode this season, we tackle one hundwritten rule of hip hop that affects the most marginalized among us and holds the entire culture back and when then a new generational rap refuses to stand for On this episode, we're breaking down legacy. Who gets to leave one in hip hop and who gets left out from her rap crew, rejecting her to a twenty five year legal battle. MC shot Rock takes us through her fight to be remembered. Rule number two baby girl, your only funky is your last cut? All right? See, I've been dying to ask you this. Oh, Mike, who is your top dead or lie? That's mad Herd. But okay, I mean for me, Missy's on there, Kendrick's on there, Big is on there. But you know what, you know what always seems so unfair about this question to me? It makes me think about all the biases that go into these lists, Like, you know, I know, of course everyone has their own taste, but you're saying it feels like there's something more than taste reflected in these lists. Yes, exactly, it's implicit bias that's used as a way to cover up the fact that the people making the lists think that men are just overall better at rapping. And if there are any women on the list, it's usually just one token one, you know, and it's always the same usual suspects, Lauren, Missy, Kim Nikki exactly. But what about Jean Gray or Zalia or Rhapsody or Megan. And that's why reimagining the cannon of the greatest mcs takes real work. We talked to somebody who's doing exactly that. When you're thinking about carving out history and the people who are in power. Basically it's men, and men get to tell these tall tales basically about what they did, and men get to create history for other people as well. That's Clover Hope, a long time hip hop journalist whose bylines ran from Double XL and the Source to The New York Times in Vogue. But even as a revere critic, Clover miss Sharrock story was brand new to her. I certainly even as a hip hop pad who was writing about it for like, since I was twenty and in it since I was like thirteen, Like, I didn't know a lot of these stories about the young girls who were part of, like creating this culture. I knew the date of hip hop being created and the names of some of the early you know, like Grandmaster Flash, and I didn't know her name. That was a big motivation for Clover to write The Motherlow, one hundred plus women who made Hire Bob. It's like a reimagined Kennon. It finally puts women front and center. Sha Rock is one of the first profiles in The Motherload. Clover rites that Shaw is considered quote the first prominent female MC. Clover says She wanted readers to know Shaw's story because it's been hidden for so long. And that's the case for many rappers, but for Shaw, the reasons behind that rature reveal how bias is built into the foundations of hip hop. I wrote a lineman bearer that I always go back to, which was that history is what a dominant group decides. This fact, Shaw herself is a living testament of this history has been changed over the years, and I see it in a hip hop culture. But I'm not one to allow that to happen. When we called up Sha, she was sitting at a kitchen table in Texas. It's a long way from the Bronx where she got a start, and back then, sh I wasn't thinking about legacy. She was focused on having fun outside. Her corner of the Bronx was giving birth to hip hop, and as a teenager she discovered breakdancing. She rocked the overside sweatshirts and lee jeans. She was becoming a b girl. The first person that I saw breakdance was friends of mine, you know that had went to junior high school with me. You know, they taught me how to breakdance. They taught me what it was to you know, up rock what it was to you know, just hit the beats, you know, whenever you hear that certain break beats. Shot traveled all over the Bronx, every part Jam, every house party, anywhere DJ's was spending break beats. The circles was always male dominated when it came to be boys, and to me, you know, as a b girl, I was sort of like a tomboy, you know, a growing up man. So you know when you've seen it, I mean it's just like a feeling that you knew that you had to be a part of. Yeah, something big was happening in the Bronx and b girling. That was Shaw's way in, you know, gave you like a feeling like you I mean, like you could you could just like take on the world, you know, because it was I don't know, it was just like a crazy feeling where it was like it just empowered you as a woman. I know it did for me as a young teenager, and I'm quite sure it did it, you know, for you know, the young guys that was out there at the time. At the time, she'd also been zabbling in poetry, but I wanted to do something bigger with it. She wanted to rap and in show's day being a rapper man being part of a crew. One day, sha was stopped by a young man passing out flyers. He said, listen, you know we're having an audition. Would you want to come in audition? MC, I said you and now why not? Sha? I had to take a bus uptown to the basement of a three story house where a dude named DJ Breakout and a manager named Jazz d were conducting the audition. On the bus ride there, she wrote a first rap ever and recited it over and over, and then, standing in front of the manager, Sharrock went in, I'm Shaana Rock, and I can't be stopped for all the fly guys when we hit the top. I could do it for the ones that are weak strong, and I could do it for the ones that are right a wrong. But I'm listening on the column that's classified, and I could be your nurse and I'm qualified to talk about respect. I won't neglect my strategy. It's for you to see. So don't turn away by what I say because I'm on I'm bad when I'm talking to you. And the manager loved you know. He was like um yo. She spit fire. The crew like that. She rocked around so much. The name was shan Rock right on the spot. Sean officially joined up with the Funky for in nineteen seventy eight. She was the only girl in the crew and her presence was felt immediately. What did the your male counterparts think of your early reps? I would always a secret weapon. A lot of other groups were scrambling trying to find female mcs that can be able to deal with Shan Rock. There was really no competition during that time, especially for shan Rock. That's Raheem, another original member the Funkie Four, Rahim auditioned for the group after Sho had already joined, and with Rahim joining the crew, the Funkie Four were locked in. It was KK Rockwell Keith Keith, Raheem and MC shar Rock. Raheem says he always looked at shal Rock like a sister, and from day one he respected a technique, her style, her poise, her delivery. You knew immediately when you heard her. As soon as you heard and this is Sharrock. And she made sure that you knew whether you were a man or a woman, if you were an MC. But you you couldn't get with her. Yeah, but peepe this. He also says she served a very specific purpose to the group. With a female in the group, you know, obviously that's to calm the wolves down. And we needed that during that time period because if we didn't keep the audiences that we entertained in the Bronx during the seventies, there was gonna be a problem. It was gonna be a shootout, there was gonna be stabbing. Somebody who's gonna get robbed. Yeah. The Bronx was hip hop's birthplace for a reason. The earliest rap crews originated from gang culture and sometimes those ties bled over into the party. So basically so I was seen as AMC but also seen as a token, even by members of her own group. And that was really spelled out when the group had some lineup changes and rebranded as the Funky four plus one more And guess who was the plus one? So why did they call it Funky four plus one instead of Funky five? What was the plus one? Because that seemed to differentiate you, as you know, as being like the woman on there. I think the reason why my manager did do it is because you know, he didn't want to have like the Furious five or the Order the Furious or the Funky five or whatever. He just wanted, you know, me to be stand out. So when they say the plus one, you know, it's like, Okay, we have the Funky for we've got somebody else. The plus one plus one could mean you're the most important member, but it could also mean you a footnote. But it was shal Rock whose innovations helped the Funky four stand out and laid the foundation for where rap was going next. You gotta understand rap. It had been around for a minute, but still sounded damn that pretty story at the time. Seventy eight was the critical and the most important year of mcs within hip hop culture because that was the year that the mcs set the example of how you may see an MC Rodney today, because the mcs were not rhyming like that. They were not rhyming in the format, you know. And I was a part of the MC's that made that format for future mcs. And I should say that I was the female MC that helped make that format for the future mcs. People were bumping these tapes listening to the blueprint of rap. It must have been like stumbling upon a new language, one that was made just for you, discovering new pathways for sound, with every break being sixteen bar verse. These originators were laying down a new framework for music. The possibilities were endless, and show I played with all of them. My manager he went and found out how to buy this this, this instrument, and it was called the echo chamber. And so whenever I used to say a ron or, I would say, like, shaw rock rock, rock rock, you put the echo on it, rock rock rock. Or when I don't say yes yes, Shaw yes, Shaw yes, Shaw yes, Shaw yes, y'all, it would repeat every last word of my run that I would say, Now, this is the way we wanted, Donna. And at the same time I rust with your mind the same identical be one time as we possessed it, be gonna make you want to run. I became so synonymous with the New York City on cassette tapes or when I was roming in the echo channel, people was like, Okay, let me run out and get this echo channel. People all throughout the city called winn or what shall was doing? Even guys who would eventually pop up all over those all time goldless so I hear the Funky four plus one. I heard that, and then on that record was this Girl and that's DMC of Run DMC, one of the most influential rap groups of all time. And since it was a girl, the voice was so distinctive, but it sounded stronger, more grounded, more versatile, more unique, more impressive than all of the dudes that I had heard up to that point. It was just a different energy and they were all switching off and wrapping. But when it got to the park where they said, Shot Rock, don't stop, just turn on your mic and you're ready to rock. And this a person. I don't want to just see a girl, this person just when when the sun don't shine, the rain don't stop it we got sound, he called punk Rocket, Just get up out the chair. As I have fun with da I heard for rhyming over um um the breakbeat, seven minutes of funk, and it was It was just the craziest thing that I ever heard. And I heard a lot of people do it, but there was something about the way Shot Rock delivered her rhymes that was just the proto type to be. She was already dominant. The echo chamber just made her invincible. Shaw's influence can be heard all over those run DMC records, like Run's House from their album Tougher Than Leather Down with the tres So Sha Rock has real influence on the art and science of MC. But as the Funky four plus one more, we're about to get their big break and introduce hip hop to the rest of America. She was about to see how being that plus one could be a minus. By eighty we were signed to sugar Hill Records, you know, in June of eighty And with that said, you know, our first song that we put out with um sugar Hill Records would call uh that's to join it the dump play. So shar Rock was the Funky four plus one secret weapon, and when sugar Hill Records got hip to him, the CEO or the label, Silvia Robinson latched on the shar Rocks talents and her innocence. I was seventeen going on eighteen. But the crazy thing about it is that my mother didn't even sign, you know, my my contract for me. Um my sister, she wasn't my legal guardian, but she signed my contract for me, you know, because I wanted to do it so bad. But yeah, I was seventeen. I was seventeen at the time, seventeen going on eighteen at the time that I signed to shugar Hill Records. Since Shan was on the age, she had a sister sign because she didn't want a mom to talk her out of it. So wait a minute, was your sister signing? Was that? Was that legal? Nope, they didn't care. Okay, of the strength of that's the joint. Sylvia Robinson sent the group out on their first tour. They were each promise to make five hundred dollars a show. What Silvia Robinson did with this first sugar Hill tour is that she wanted everybody you know that was under her label at the time. She wanted to take us on like this major tour around the world, you know, to be able to um you know, let people see what sugar Hill Records was doing. And so the idea was great. I mean, we hit every major city that you could imagine, every arena, every place that we played at was sold out. When you're going to places like Wisconsin, you're going to places like Chicago, Florida, you know, places that we've never been before accepted, you know, wrapped within hip hop like it was like it was something new to them. They were going crazy. You know. It's like they treated us like we were like the Jacksons. I was like, listen, you know what we made it. People are loving what we do, something that we created. And as the tours coming to a close, the Funky Four plus one got another call from Sylvia Robinson. Miss Robinson call us out, you know, on to it and say Saturday Night Live, want y'all to come and perform. Debbie Harry of Blondie was set to host Anne perform on the show, and she wanted to feature a special guest, and we were told the reason why she wanted us as opposed to Grandmaster Flash, the furious of the sugar Hill Game. It's because they had a female and the fact that we were young and innocent looking now, this was the secret weapon in action. Having show in the group was opening the door for the Funky Four. But if being sugar Hills first Lady was paying off for her group, it was low keep pissing off the labels, other acts. Everybody named Mamma's was mad. What us on that tour of bus groups were mad? The other groups was mad. They was furious because they were not the ones that got chosen to peer on Saturday night nine. That's why when the tour ended and the two of us pulled up the Sugar Hills parking lot, fights broke out. You know, it just went crazy and left after the ass yep, the Funkie four plus one and the Furious Five through hands. You remember that fight, yeah, yep, vividly. By this signed Raheem had left the Funkie four plus one and joined their rivals, the Furious Five. He was in the parking lot that day too, just like Sell, I had nothing to do with the beef between the Funky four plus one and Furious Five. The person from the Furious Five was physically aggressive towards the Funky four plus one was Cowboy thrust in Beas. Do you remember what cowboys said in the moment? How how did he spark it all? Um? I don't remember what was said. I just remember he went after a little Rockney Sea physically and uh, you know, punch them in the head or the face us up. It's so much stuff happened within those last couple of days, far as animosity, you know, and and fighting arguments and all that stuff that went down, and so it came to head, you know, in the parking lock of shooting the records, and you might be thinking, what does this have to do with shot? Well, nothing and everything to all the other groups. She wasn't just seen his competition. She was now a threat just by being there. But the Funky Four plus one More couldn't dwell on that rat beef because a few days later, their big night on SNL arrived. Take us back to like walking to that studio for the first time, What did it look like? What did it feel like? It was like, Okay, we're gonna be on TV. We still don't know the impact or being the first authentic hip hop group to ever, you know, be on TV. All we know is that you're gonna see us on TV and that's set. And while the Funky Four sat in the green room waiting for their performance, they watched the show live the Valentine's Day special as snel's newest black cast member, Eddie Murphy, popped out in a cubic costume during Debbie Harry's monolog They Love Me. Towards the end of the show, Debbie Harry introduces the Funky Four. What she said was I got the best Street Country. Please welcome my friends from the Brons, the Funky four plus one more on stage. You can see the crew's arms locked around Shot rocking like she's in the cage or cocoon almost, and then the guys they roll off to the left and right, revealing their start. The show's dressed differently than the guys who got on tight balloon card again. He can't go. She's rocking a side ponytail jeans, stuffed in a white cowboy boots and a pink fly you know, standing side by side the Funky four plus one kick off, the smash hit, the Shot weaves in and out of the other verses perfect hard. We're doing We're gonna rock this rock because you got a stand. You're hearing the record, you're hearing the tapes and stuff like that. And then you wake up and somebody says, yo, he was on TV last night. That was the life changing moment. So I can imagine that the older folks seeing that one, Okay, what the hell is this? We're not sure, we don't hate it, and then it's the people that just hated it. That's the number one iconic moment in the hip hop. This was one of the first times a hip hop group was nationally televised that and I was likely the biggest stage rap had ever been on at that point. But DMC and all the SNL viewers at home, they didn't realize that that night Sha was carrying her own plus one. I was pregnant at the time. I think I was like about four or five six months pregnant something like that, and so I was like hurting. I was feeling kind of crazy and all of that stuff. My stomach was hurting, and listen, this is nothing like Rihanna doing her bigger reveal of her baby bump with the Super Bowl. SHA was doing her best to try and hide her bump and how she was feeling as she gave her best effort. You could tell from the recording she's stiff and slow with her movements. That's why you would see I was standing stand in a certain way, you know, and just look forward and focus out, you know. And so I was like, let me blow it. Let me just get through this, you know, and I'll tell them tomorrow. This was the highest point of the group's career so far, and she didn't want to blow it because I just wanted to get through the television show. I didn't want, um, you know, them to feel a certain kind of way, you know, So I waited until the next day and I told them one by one. I told Ronny because I was closer to him first, I told him first, and of course he went and he told the other guys you know, within the group, and it was like crickets. After that, nobody in the group has shows back. They was like really fall back. I mean there was really no conversation, but like why why would you do that shot Rock? You know, and then it was like they were distanced. The way Shaw tells it, the guys felt her pregnancy would hold them all back. They felt like it would hinder everything that we had moving forward. Shout Rocks pregnant, It's going to slow us down, and so they were very upset, even though Rahem wasn't a member of the group anymore. He says. He relates to how the rest of the Funkifore reacted the show's pregnancy at the time. They were concerned about them their livelihoods, you know, at that time. And I could certainly understand that if I were a member of their group at that time, I probably would have voiced the same concern or maybe not. At this point, the other members of her crew were treating shot more like a liability than an asset. Her pregnancy was clearly a problem in their eyes, so they were very protected of them, and I think when it's all said and done, they probably felt like, if I covered you, then you cover cover us, you know, make sure that we're good, make sure that you know we ready to you know, take the whole world by stone, like you betrayed them or something. You could say that. You could say that, but do you ever think about the double standard of that, Like how you're choosing to do something with your own body could be a betrayal to them like that. I didn't look at it at that time, at the time, you know, far as like to betrayal. I I kind of got it, you know, because um, not the fact that I betrayed them, but the fact that I love hip hop so much that I could have, you know, thought about you know, there could have been other ways to you know, to do it, or other ways that I could have made sure that that wasn't the right timing. That was a decision that I made. I mean, it was upon me. I wasn't going to do anything else to terminate you know, the situation, um and um. I just had to deal with it. But after the pregnancy, that's when things went downhill. For how did it feel to have, like, have such little support from them, from your crew members, from Rodney and everybody once you told them, you know what, I've never really blamed them for it, you know, because I look at it like this. You know, we were all young, We were in our teenagers, and so where you expect for somebody, you know, maybe much older, you know, to be understanding. I think that they were dealing with their own feelings as well, especially being young. So I gives the guys a lot of grace in hindsight, maybe more than they even deserve, because even if I won't say it, what her group members did was messed up. They ced her out, and things wouldn't ever be the same after that. I was scared too. She didn't know where to go from here. I felt like for me, I was at the height of my career as well. You know, I was more so nervous, not because I didn't have to support you know, of my family, but so much nervous to know that it would, you know, put a damper on me moving forward. Even though Sean was struggling to balance everything and get right with the guys, the Phony four plus one was still up. That SNL performance had gone so well that Debbie Harry wanted them to sign to the same laborhood group. Blondie was on only one problem, Silvia Robinson and sugar Hill. They weren't having it and it would be years before Shan could take control of her own career. By nineteen eighty three, just two years after the Biggest and Hell debut, the Funky four plus one had split up. Some members joined up with other crews, but shar Rock she had different responsibilities. There were times, right, you know, where there was no income, no money coming in, no money coming in nowhere. So once you had your daughter, like how were you able to take care of her? My mom? My mom? And it was so crazy about it, right because and here it is, we're in New York City. People are hearing our songs. They're looking at us, like, yo, what's going on? You know, y'all sugar recas you know, out of the Bronx you were your money at after ESNL and the success of that's the joint you think she'd be getting paid, but after the Funky four plus one disbanded, Sha was struggling to even see a dime of her royalties. At the time, she couldn't figure out why, because she thought a label ball Sylvia Robinson had her back. Miss Robinson promised me that she was going to look out you know, for me, actually for the fact that she became the godmother of my daughter. You know, she christian my daughter at two months old. You know, she came up to the Bronx in her Rose Wars and christian my daughter at two months old. So I believe that she was going to look out for me, you know, for all the money of the songs and all the songs that I made. I honestly believe that she didn't look out for nobody else. She was going to look out for me because she christian my daughter as a goddaughter. And so with that said, I just thought about Yeah, I just thought about this because that I did get back into yea, it's really deep. So I trusted Sylvia to do right by her. She promised this that she was going to pay us. She promised that she was going to allow us to record as many songs as we want, and she was going to ensure that all our fruits of labor would come to fruition where we would be able to monetize offered the culture that we created, and she promises that, but it didn't happen. And unfortunately this wasn't nothing new to show. Like remember how they were supposed to get paid five hundreds each preshow. So when she came out there on tour, we was like, you know what's going on? Our money is short, you know what I'm saying. And she gave us this whole story and sold everything erupted. You know. She gave us one time we had asked her for an advancement and she gave us, Like we thought we was gonna get like six seven thousand dollars, you know what I'm saying, She gave us like fifteen hundred dollars, you know, and we've never seen no money again. Black musicians at getting robbed by the record industry since the beginning of time. But it hits different when the label owner stealing your money is family and her being here your daughter's god mom. I mean, did she had to see you struggling? I lived in the Bronx and she lived in the match in New Jersey in Inglewood. She didn't see it. She made up known, but she didn't see it because she didn't come to the Bronx. Sylvia Robinson passed in twenty eleven, so we weren't able to talk to her for this story. Sylvia Robinson and had this reputation for this kind of like really screen over these groups financially, that's Clover Hope again, women NB vultures and also player role in misogyny or player role in this larger capitalist system and down play other women and so um, it's not limited to just men doing it. Sha Rock did everything she could to see her clear of sugar Hill Records. She formed a new group called Us Girls, hoping the label wouldn't get its hands on whenever money came in. Her new crew even appeared in the classic film The Street. Since shar Rock is the bom with the magical talk, I'm like burning the final off. You know, I'm just too money. I want to treat it. But at every turn Sho was bound by her contract with Sylvia. Basically she was in a three sixty deal before those were even a thing. This is the reason why, Like in nineteen eighty three. I said, I'm not gonna do this. I'm not going to allow no one to pimp me and take everything away from me that I love. So I fell back and I never recorded again for a long period of time, simply because I felt a way for me to handle this was to regop let my contract run out. I don't record, I don't do anything that anybody can take anything away from me again. But even then, there wasn't a roadmap for an unsigned woman MC in hip hop trying to turn a passion into a profitable long term career. SHA's career hit a glass ceiling. Eventually, hip hop's memory of the first female MC started to fade. Two. Sean moved on with a life until ten years later when she was in a record store and spotted a sugar Hill compilation on sale for one hundred dollars. I'm talking to myself. I said, Wow, this is they selling the song and I ain't getting paid from it. And I went on this this rampage to try to find an attorney, you know, to recoup my money. Shan, I wasn't making money, but clearly somebody was. She I would have gone on a rampage too, She decided not to take it lying down, so she routed up all the old label mates. I went to the Furious five, me and Ron. He was very close. I said, get all the members together, you know, and come in with me on this lawsuit. He got them together. I got the Funk you four together, and I'm later on a group, the New Crash Crew you know, came on and so we fouled against Sylvia Robson and shot her record in nineteen ninety seven, shot and her former labelmates. By the suit. They were seeking royalties as well as other fees from Sylvia, her husband Joe Robinson, and their next of ken who are now running the company. And this fight dragged going for decades. Robinson's were uncooperative and eventually both Joe and siel We had died before a final settlement was reached. And foundly, you know, to make a long story short, after all these years, we foundly, you know, we're able to revert everything back to us. Now. Sean and Rahem wouldn't disclose to us how much money they got. But for Sean it was never just about the money. This was about fighting for herself, for her fellow artists, and really for her own legacy. What does it feel like to get your royalties back, get literally get get the credit for your craft back after all this time, after all this time of being doubted and robbed, It feels like I've been vindicated, you know. It feels like, um that I am still here, you know, in flesh, to be able to see the outcome, you know, and my kids, you know. And it's so crazy about it because I think that my kids know that I am a strong woman, you know, and they saw everything that I went through, you know, at that given birth. They heard it over the years, that heard me on a telephone talking to the attorneys, They heard my passion to other MC's, you know, they know how I feel about hip hop culture. And to be vindicated fright, and to allow my kids to see that no matter what you believe in, whether or not somebody do you wrong or not, if you believe that what you're doing is right, then you go the distance. Other artists have tried to file against sugar Hill, but shall Rock She was the first to successfully get everybody paid. Yeah, and that's the fight. That's just as historic as being the first few MEALEMC. It's a claim to fame nobody else can make you feel like there's been times when you weren't respected for your craft, and do you feel respected for your craft? Now? I used to, you know, think about, you know, not being respected in the beginning, you know. And so I learned not to take it personal. And so instead of me, you know, feeling like I was disrespected because people didn't know who Sha Rock was, I took a different approach. I started telling people my story and would continue to tell people my story. And the more that I tell a person in story and they said, oh, what that didn't happen, then prove it didn't. I can prove that it did. And so no, I learned to not take it personal, but to be personal and let people know who I am and what I meant and and and how I was instrumental in helping to move this culture forward in spaces like the Bronx Music Carriage Center. Shaw get to define her own legacy. But I just want to say, before I get started about Shan Rock, I just want to say, y'all, we all the Rocks. We created a multi billion dollar business back in the nineteen seventies. You know what I'm saying, A multibion dollar business. I'm proud of that, even though I have never received or recoup the money, as well as Grandma's past and Mellie Mel and grand wiz in Theodore, we are still proud to have created this beion dollar business because you know what, when it's all said and done, it was never about the money for us. It was about the heart and soul of the culture. The B girl, the B boy, the MC, the graffiti artist, the DJ right here in the Bronx. So let's give a round of a course for the Bronx and everybody that represents him my Folture to the fullest. At the end of her talk, sha Rock starts answering questions from fans in the crowd. Thank you for your contribution to the culture because of your voice. At an early age of planned to see that women were equal with men. Right on the mic. Hearing you as a child told me women could do it too, and that has helped me develop as a man being in spaces with women. Because if Shan Rock was into spaces with the fucking bo plus one more when it can be in any spaces. So thank you, thank you. So we talked more to this guy after he calls himself a brother north of Division X, and he says he was one of the people who's datably to watch Sha Rock on SNL. I had never been up past like eleven o'clock when the news came on, it was time to go to sleep, and I begged if I could, you know, to be able to see it, and my mom's let me stay up, and somehow I was able to catch it the beginning and fell asleep. But it was the event was a small crowd, but Shaw's fans just keep giving her flash. I never knew realized I was. I was like, yo, one for the girl. We never even saw it as like yo, she's a girl, and seeing that it was even a question because she rocked harder than a dude, you know what I'm saying. And her crew was hard. You know her crew back then, Her crew was hard. It was tough. They was they was dope. There was well respected. One woman in the crowd named Keina became an instant fan of Shaw that night. Do you know anything about shot Rock for fort tonight? Absolutely nothing, okay? And what did the talk to teach you so that she was a first female MC coming out of le Bronx or in general, and that was interesting. I never heard her name before and for her to have such an influence on what hip hop is today and hermida never know who she is, you know, says a lot about storytelling and why it's important. So I am very happy I came out tonight. Yeah. When you say says a lot, what do you mean, Well, you know the narrative that goes in the media, it's like whoever shouts loudest gets hurt. And I think she's now starting to get the props that she's do right. And it's not because she didn't do the right things, it's just people to know who she was. So you know, you have to go to even type best to start finding out the history and the truth and you know, reading up on things and digging deep to not just stat to what's being told and you know, your mainstream media. And then something happens that wasn't on the schedule, Grandmaster cast, that's not a funky beat. Sean hypes up the crowd. Remember that out of nowhere, she breaks into a verse. Yo, Shan, Rock gets your own, Well, nope, Rock for the hot, get down full the low. Never heard the words they called the way because that was one of the best. I'm on the right track when you get around from the other female pushing to the top to get blandil Shan Rock and I ain't to please you know. I did it for the felons and young ladies. I keep a hand in the hand. Then Shan invites random fans on stage to rap with her. It's a whole sipher even on the hot the pillar, the best thing. They not think you. Everybody's swarming the stage. Let's go brother, you ready, let's not boy from the show. This party gone out the down okay cast defend it in the house. They in this room, in the birthplace of hip hop, Shan Rock is remembered. The legacy isn't just about being seen. It's about how you're seeing can ultimately whose lens the world is looking through. Someone always has something to say. Everybody has a comment on your body. It's like, if you're natural, they're talking about it. If you have surgery done, they have something to say. It's just always something to say. People think it's fine. It's like, oh, let's all join it and a bash on the black woman, Kiki Kiki Ki. It's something about the one's body specifically that really triggers people Robberts, Dream Doll, Baby Tate and DOGI take us through rule number three next time on Louder Than a Riot. Louder Than a Riot is hosted by Me, Rodney Carmartin and Sydney Madden. This episode was written by myself, Sydney and Mono Suon. The Racing Anna was produced by Mana sund Racing. Our senior producer is Gabbie Borelli and our producers are Sam J. Leeds and Mano Suon the Racing. Our editor is Sirea Shockley and our engineer is Gilly moon I. Senior supervising producer cherf Vincent allur interns and Jose Sandoval, Teresa Shea and p Lar Galavan. And the NPR execs are Keith Jenkins, Yolanda Sangueni and Ana Gradman. Original theme by Cassa overall remixed by Susie Analog and the scoring for this episode was provided by Susie Analog and Cassa. Overall Digital editor is Jacob Ganz. Our fact checkers are Sarah Knight and Jane Gilvin. If you want to learn more about mc sha Rock's story, check out her autobiography Luminary Icon, the story of the beginning and end of hip hop's first female MC. If you liked this episode and you want to talk back, hit us up on Twitter. We're at Louder Than a Riot, and if you want to email us, it's Louder at MPR dot org. From MPR Music, I'm Sidney Madden and I'm Rodney Carl Michael. This is Louder than a Riot.