Hit-Boy

00:00:15 Speaker 1: Pushkin for hit Boy, It's All in a Name, Niggas in Paris by Jay Z and Kanye West, Sycamode by Travis Scott, Thick by Beyonce from her newest album Renaissance, as well as songs from Frank Ocean, Rihanna, Kendrick Lamar, and so many more. Hit Boys production has powered some of the biggest hits off the best projects over the last decade, which makes it all the more remarkable that his actual crowning achievement has nothing at all to do with radio hits or the latest artists. But the thing that ensures hit Boys enshrinement in whatever hall of fame exists twenty thirty years from now is dropping back to back to back masterpieces with one of rapp's most legendary figures, Nas Nas just won his first Grammy a few years back from his album King's Disease, a project that was fully produced by hit Boy. Since then, they've gone on to release together k D two, Magic and k D three, each album better than the last. And as if all of that in the span of a few years wasn't enough, Hit Boys also just released a new solo album as a producer rapper called surf or Drown. I talked to hit Boy on today's Broken Record about his new solo project, how he's recently just introduced a new but old piece of equipment into his beat making process, about growing up in the ie just east of Los Angeles, and what he learned from having an uncle in Troop, one of the smoothest R and B groups of the eighties and nineties. This is Broken Record liner notes for the Digital Age. I'm justin Richmond. Here's my conversation with hit Boy. How you doing today, man, solid man. Yeah, it's just on the move as usual. Yeah, you're busy, no stop, How are you keeping up? Man? I don't even know between being a dad and doing this. It's just like you gotta just go push yourself, man, don't get burnt out like some I mean, you know, just like just go. Yeah. Do you feel like you're in a creative zenith, like at the top of your creative game at the moment, Yeah, for sure, I'm taking it there. I'm definitely like. It's just like I always wanted to be able to just tap in and make pretty much any style of beat that I wanted to at any given moment. And that's like where I'm at now, like I could just somebody need a certain sound, or if I'm hearing something, I could really like execute it a lot more than earlier in my career. So that's exciting. But that was a goal early in the career. Still, yeah, just like you know, I would get to a certain point on my production and then kind of get just stump, don't want to do next. But now it's like I made so many beats, so many songs, it's just coming to me. Can you think of something recently where before you might have gotten stumped, but you're able to move before just beats in general, you know what I mean. I can't think of a specific thing, but now and now I also understand that you can build things over time. They like before, like I used to overcrowd my beats, and artists used to tell me, like, man, the beats they dope. But at the same time, I don't know where I could fit in because there's so much instrumentation, a lot going on. So I just scaled it back and now it's like, Okay, I could get a voice on there. Then I could get inspired again and add another sound and a breakdown and just something that makes sense at the right sound. Do you think I do that your beats were maybe crowded for certain people before. Do you think that maybe goes back to just when you were just making beats just for yourself, Like, yeah, for sure, definitely, you know. I mean I always made beats with the intention of getting somebody on them, even if it was just myself, because I was writing before when you're learning to make beats, yeah, because I was making songs before I was making beats. So I was like trying to find something that made sense for me or whoever else to get on, you know, but I would. So you used to make the beats for you to get on. Yes, you're tired of just wrapping over instrumentals from other people. So I was in a group with a kid, and he made all the beats at first. So we did like a few projects together. I'm like fourteen, fifteen years old, you know what I mean. So by the time I turned sixteen, we had made a couple of projects and I just started playing with the fl studio at his crib and was like, Yo, this is really like fun. It's like a video game for me. Yeah, And I just was like I just took a real liking to it and kept pushing with it. Did you do anything musically growing up at playing the instruments or una? But I was around a lot of music. Yeah. My uncle Rodney B. Was in a group called Troop, and I just saw the whole lifestyle, you know what I mean then being in the studio video shoots, the style, like the music, the dance moves like it just RB group. Yeah yeah, yeah, my uncle and my grandma started the group. She was managing them up until they got signed, and like she really whipped them into shape to like really like be focused on that level. That's crazy. She just always had a passion for music herself, and well my uncle started getting to a certain age, she just was like, you need to start a group. And they started a group and they really went and had a couple number ones and had some success. What was that like for you? Growing up? Seeing that crazy? It got me like on the focused level, I'm on now, you know what I mean? Like I always just seeing like they was doing it on a real level. So I've seen it. I seen it everything in the whole lifestyle and I just was intrigued. Yeah, for you at that time, was hip hop the thing where you were locked in on hip hop or did you see that maybe even think like yeah, I mean while my uncle played all type of music, So I heard in Wa, I heard Snoop, I heard ice Cube about her, just like all the West Coast, you know, hip hop, but it was a lot of R and B being played too, because there was an R and B group, So just like hearing them core changes and just like really seeing the musicality and it that's kind of like what was hitting me. But I didn't know exactly what it was, but it was the emotion of the chords and the emotion of the drum patterns and the groove and the feeling that just was like I was downloading into my DNA or and downloading that DNA. And so now that you're making music, you started to realize the things that you're attracted to, and making music somewhat come from that, for sure. I mean me being able to do a music soul shout album. We just dropped Victims and Villains. That's literally because my uncle used to play his first album over and over and over, so I just like already knew kind of where to take it, what I would want to hear personally with just updating it to where it's at now. Yeah, but I saw a lot of time when I'm making music, I just like tap into that original emotion that I would feel before I knew what it was. What was your first meeting with music? Like? It was dope because he already had reached out telling me he loved what I was doing with NAS, So he just showed what what what what NAS project had come at that point when he reached out Magic, it was all Matt Katie one, Katy two, and Magic had come out, not Katy three yet. A matter of fact, no, Magic hadn't even come out. Magic was about to come out. And because I remember playing him some of the music and he was just like, Yo, this is crazy. Nobody even knew he was doing it. But when he pulled up, it just was respect, you know. Yeah, And I just had so many beats that fit into where he wanted to go. It kind of was like an easy process. But the intention wasn't necessarily to do a full record together or was. He just was like, we need to tap in and you know, work, see what happened, And after a while you start getting eight, nine, ten songs. It's like no, this got to be the album. But that's probably happened before, right, No, I mean with Nas, I didn't plan on making it uan four albums with him. I didn't even know I was gonna make one album with him. He just was coming to get some beats and we just kept working, you know what I mean, he just kept pulling up. It's something about the spot I'm in and just to zone I'm in personally that makes artists want to keep coming back. For the most part, the physical spot were really just physical spot where you're trying work in child at studios. Yeah, where's that? What's Hollywood? Not far from here, like five minutes and you just lock it out and y'all've been there going on five years and huh yeah, this is August. It will be five years I've been in that studio and I've just been making a lot of progress. It's kind of like a homie type of situation, Like it kind of reminds me of me making beats in my bedroom at my mom crib, and I feel like that's what is attractive about it, Like it's not like some it's my three year old seed three. It just makes it real comfortable to come record. Yeah, versus like this big room that's got the lights all on and it's all sterile. It's like, now you're coming in, it's like, man, it's like almost like being at somebody crib. Yeah right, that's taking it back, Yeah for sure. So surfer drown first, what's the title surfer Drown? I mean, I had went through some heavy stuff just in the game, you know what I mean, just in life. You know, we all got to figure out whether we're gonna surf or drown, but especially the music industry. I feel like I've been to the mountaintop. I've been around the amazing artists and like, you know, getting that respect and then the flip side, you know, trying to figure it out. Like you know, I could have literally drowned and just like either quit music or like I've been in situations to where some people wouldn't even wanted to be alive no more, you know what I mean, just like kind of felt like you lost it all and not getting the respect, not getting the replies from people, not getting the same you know energy you was, And I really like pulled myself about it at you know what I mean. I had used to have a hundred people around me. Then it flipped to having nobody around the day that I found out I had like zero dollars in my account, which was like six years ago after having millions, nobody was there. Nobody was around, you know what I mean. And this was like, Wow, when you get into it, they're gonna be there, and when you're not, they're not gonna be there. So it's like you gotta look inside yourself. And that's where the whole surfer drowned concept came from. Like in surf Club is my that's my label, that's my click. That's since I was seventeen years old, been pushing surf Club And that's just kind of a play on that too. Yeah, how did you get surf club out of it? Were in Fontana when that I was in Fontana. Yeah, it was. It's crazy because I was at the Ontario Mills with the Homey Chili Chill would be Care and a couple of other people this like two thousand and five, went to the Hollister store at Ontario Mills at the mall bought these all. We all bought that these kind of like matching similar sweaters and mindset surf Club on it, and we all kind of collectively was like, yo, that should be the click name surf Club. It just sounded hard. So we just ran with it from there, and you know it's like we've always gotten respect as far as that name goes. Man, Like you can you can hear like Drake shouting it out on multiple songs and just people that like really they understand like the legacy of it that if you really tapped in on it tapp into your vibe. But even hearing no shout out like the ie it's crazy, it's far. It's crazy. People hit me at me on I G and be like yo, hit I love this, I E Weather. I'm like that's crazy. I'll know it's put that in the spectrum somebody from Queens New York, queens Bridge, just like you just never know how it's gonna come together. Man, it's insane. Man. Yeah, did you ever feel like quitty like that point when you're at zero dollars that and before that and so many times, man, just like dealing with the game and getting to know yourself, knowing how this works, like knowing who you got around you, Like, yeah, it all can be like emotionally like heavy, but I love music, so much. What's the part of it that's like the unintended stuff, that stuff for the music. But it's like, like, so I signed a publishing deal when I was one year out of high school with you know, by this time, you know, my uncle was popping late eighties, early nineties. This is two thousand and six, two thousand and seven. He can't really give me the guidance. I don't really have how many people that I can, you know, get so like, I signed a deal that I'm still into this day right now, all the time. I'm thirty five, about to be thirty six next month, and I've been in the deal since I was nineteen, So that alone has been like a mental thing. It's been just like you know, I got to see so many people like who didn't sign you know, crazy deal come up after me and be kind of like looked at in a different light, revered in a different light, when it's like I actually got the discography just the way things been structured, Like, you know, I'm still waiting to get out that deal and even just like live on a level that I should be living on, you know what I mean, which I'm living great, I'm living beautiful. I'm blessed all that, but there's more like I see, you know what it it's gonna be what it can be. How much longer does that deal run? I mean, it's supposed to be an earnout deal now, which just got renegotiated, and so versus like me having to have I had an MDRC deal, which is like, you know, the percentages and once you add up, they'll find some other way to make it not really count as what it's supposed to be in black and white, and that's just all contractual just you know, wordage and stuff like that. But yeah, now it's like, I mean, I should have hopefully two years in this deal left, you know, and it's a publishing deal. Publishing deal, right, yeah. Yeah, So that's like, you know, that's just like a part of what can weigh you down at times when you're talking to lawyers and they're like, yo, that's the worst contract I've ever seen. That. That's not something as a creative you want to hear, especially when you did that deal so premature, so young, so just new to everything going on, Like I didn't expect me to still be in a deal that I signed from then. You know, it's like I didn't even find out that it was a bad deal until I made a hit which was got signed H seven. I didn't make a real, real hit, top radio hit until like twenty eleven. Yeah, exactly. I found out after Niggas in Paris dropped, when I was like, okay, so where's the real real money, And they're like, oh, well, you signed to this contract, so you know it's not gonna be the way you thought it was gonna be. So who was getting the money? I mean it's just like not that I'm not getting the money from that song, it's just more so like you know how some people all make a hit and it's like going viral or whatever the case, they'll go be able to negotiate a new deal or something, get five ten million dollars or something like that. But I've never been able to do that with you know, even after making hits that should have allowed exactly. That's crazy. Yeah, given you've been locked into something that's felt so I mean beyond restrictive felt it's felt. Yeah. Even just talking about this right now though, like that brought me to this place because you know, you get to a where you you want to do this, you want to just like get the singles and you want to like be have every song just be niggas in Paris perform at ten twelve times, Like it's not gonna all be that. So I got to this point where it's like I gotta find out how to get my respect in another way, which was like it's a blessing to work with Nas. And was that intentional or do you think that just happened? It was a mixture of both, you know what I mean. He was just like trying to figure it out and then understanding like Okay, if I somebody like a Binny to Butcher, Big Sean, Nas Music, soul Child, one of them come through, I gotta lock in on a different level. I can't let them leave. I gotta like have so much heat that it's like nah, Brom, I'm rocking with you. Yeah, it just took me to that level. Did anyone guide you to that thinking or like did you kind of have to get their watching the game seeing just it was more so just watching. Do you feel like early on you had mentors in the production game? Yeah, of course, Like I got signed a polo to Don and he was doing big pop records and doing big R and B songs and rap songs too, and I got to see the game at a high level. And even though even if he like didn't directly tell me exactly ABC what to do, I watched it. I watched him, I watched his ups in his downs. Just like even learning from my interaction with people, you gotta just like treat everybody decently because you don't know who's gonna become who Listen, I knew so many people, Drake, Frank Ocean, Tyler, the Creator, Kendrick Lamar, I like knew these people before they blew up. So it's like you just gotta, like you you gotta understand that anybody can turn up for them. So did you have good relationship to them? Yeah for sure, sure Yeah, but just in general, you know, just like just like learning, and that got me to this place where it's like, I feel like I get more respect for doing these albums than doing a big giant single. People look at me different now, people understand like, oh, he's he's not one of those you know what I mean? He likes Seriously, it's really hard to get people to concentrate on a project, like a full project, man, and to have multiple now like the two out this year. Then, I mean, like just to have so now like a whole body of just like actual projects. It's not just like niggas in Paris or Click which great records, but like to actually now have like this, it puts you in in my mind, in a different stature of producer, you know, one million percent. Man, It makes it just makes people respect what you do more. I feel like, man, because like I've had big radio songs and didn't get nowhere near this revered, respected honor, you know what I mean. Like, And that's like it's just some a mental thing too, Like you can't really get caught up in thinking at the name or the massive success of something that's going to really lock people into what exactly who you are and what your brand is. You got to just make them waves and make them plays that make them respected on a different level. It's not always gonna be the like I put out at a song a big name artist this year, and then I put out a song with Alchemists, and a song with Alchemists who is a less you know, lesser known name than this guy blew that shit out the water. So it's like you know, you just you know you can't get caught up in just none of the industry tactics and thinking that oh it's gonna be this way, Oh it's gonna be just because that's this song gonna be successful just because you know it's it don't work like that. You can't game it like that. How much of you going from like you know you got a high school you signed like a deal that you're still locked into a bad deal to now been around nos like have you picked up on some of his the way he thinks about his team too? Yeah, for sure, I pick up on just like how to be a solid person, you know what I mean. He ain't never the loudest in the room. He ain't never got to make himself seem like something like he just is who he is. So it's like I'm already personally that type of person too, But I learned even more, like, bro, just be humble, do what you do. You're gonna get the respect you deserve when you work for you know what I mean? So I just learned just like on some life shit being around him and obviously business too, like he doing this thing and it's just like you have no choice if you really there and being attentive and you want to learn, you're gonna pick up on it. Yeah, man, we have to pause for a quick break. When we're back, you'll hear all about hit boys beat making philosophy. We're back with more of my conversation with hit Boy. When you started making beats fl Studio, which you still use, right, I do. Yeah, that's that's that's why just implemented NPC live into I still use FL. I just record what I'm doing on live into FL. And that's like been making my process even easier with making beats because it's funny because fails, like a lot of people that use and know that, like sometimes you have latency problems. So I really have been working with latency for ten twelve years, like little working with that lag for yeah, exactly. So it's like I'm kind of like better than I even think I am, because now that I want to NPC the stuff in real time, I'm just like, oh man, it's just so much easier. So how did you account for the latency for the lag all those years? I just did it so much that it just kind of became regular to me. Normal to me. Did the impact or sound you think? Who knows? This, uh put me in his zone where it's like, you know, I'm really working on this beat, Like I'm putting work into this beat. When did you decide to start incorporate in the NPC just like four months ago? Yeah, it's like recently I got the Supreme NPC Live NAS actually bought it for me, and I was just one day like, men, I need to crack this open. A matter of fact. No, my homeboy, James font Leroy, writer extraordinary legendary artists all that he was, came by and played me some beats that he had made on NPC Live and he was like, bro, you gotta get on this. And then that's when I cracked it up. And maybe a week later or a few days later, and I'm like, yo, this this is fun. It makes the process way more even fun, you know what I mean. I already have fun while I'm making beats, But that's like make it almost like a cheat. Cold did not give it to you for you to make beats on or was it sort of just like hey, just like it's a dope piece. Like even if I never opened it, like I probably could have sold it for however much, you know what I mean. But I'm like, nah, I gotta, I gotta get it in. So, like, have you made it anything yet with NPC that you feel like it's gonna make it to a project? Yeah? Yeah for sure already, Yeah for sure. Like I don't play like I look at myself like a department store, like a just like a store for real, Like when you come through, you're gonna find something, whether it's the jacket, the shirt, maybe the whole outfit to shoes, something, You're gonna find something that works for what you're doing. Nine times out of ten are just like kind of like, let me just keep cranking out product and it's like the latest stuff I do. I make sure I'll play it for the artist that's coming to work with me, and it just kind of always connects somehow, or the artists that you ever make something for where you feel like you you seek them out to show them some ccific like this could really work for this person. Yeah, I mean, especially more early in my career like now, I mean, well, if I know I'm not locked in with NAS, I'm gonna get in that zone like after we do three four records, like it's like okay, some switches in my brain where it's like I know where to take it for the rest of the time, to keep it in this linear thing but still be dynamic. So he still locked in with nis. I'm super locked in. We was in the studio last night, probably gonna be in the studio after we've done with this podcast. Man, it's just like we're just like it's honestly, I feel like we're still working on the first album. Like it's just been like a progressive thing. Like I've seen people work on albums for five six years, and if we was just now about to come out the album, people would just like be even more mind blown because the progress. But it was good that we, you know, have been just making the projects dropping him. We're getting his live feedback, We're getting all this support, all this respect. He's up my respect level just in music in general. And people look at him it's like, you know, like, Wow, you can age gracefully and you can still keep it hip hop, you can still keep it fresh, still cutting edge, modern at you know what I'm saying, whatever age, and it's not even about that, it's just what you guys are doing is timeless. Dude. It's crazy. Appreciate that, man, It's crazy. I gotta say, like, I think jay Z did that similar thing with four four four made it feel like you don't have to be the newest the artist to make something that that resonation impacts and vibrates. But you guys did it Kad Katy two, Magic Katie three. And to have every project be flawless it really a point where it's like, like those are just so next level incredible, Like how do you even choose one that's like it's like, yeah, it's like having three atomatics, you know. Man. Yeah, I've just seen somebody on Twitter say something about the first Katie and I'm like, damn, we have some points on there. It was like a different and I feel like we all every song we make is like a real song with some type of structure, some type of you know, it might be a new way of thinking about it, but it's just like something that's gluing it together as an actual song, you know what I mean. And I feel like we've progressed into like really him just digging into that bag of just getting wraps off, but still keeping the structure to where people can enjoy the song and it's not just three minutes of rapping like you still got a hook, you still But he just like just flashed back like and took it to a place that people of what people really want to hear from him? How are the concepts coming up? Like I'm thinking off this new phone like Michael and Quincy like that. That's just a concept. He actually had that idea for a little minute, like for probably like some months, and he would just talk about it. I didn't know exactly what because I feel like most people would have just sampled either some off thriller or off the wall or just something that kind of like was a similar esthetic to those, but we took a left field and uh had like the break beat with the dirty acoustic bass and then the horns and core changes and just like you know, really having fun with it. So he had the concept for a minute, but there wasn't a beat attached to it or yeah, because I was thinking about how to approach it, like I'll never want to be surface level and just be like, Okay, cool, I'm gonna go sample a Quincy song or easy thing to do, just sample body heat or something. Right. Yeah, No, it's like just come with a new wave. Damn. Yeah, did you grow up a NAS fan. Like growing up on the West Coast, I grew up on the West Coast, Naas was respected. I respected Nas always, but it wasn't the thing that I was always hearing coming up right, you know, man, that's funny because I just was having this conversation with somebody just about how like things are marketed and the way people look at things, you know what I mean. I always had a super major respect for NAS, but working with him and digging it to his discography, listening to how the albums were sequenced, like, um, I listened to all his intros like just back to back to back to back, just trying to capture that that energy, and I really got more of an appreciation for who he really is and what he's contributed to music in general, you know what I mean. So I always had major respect for him, but I just like grew to really understand like, oh, this this dude is, you know what I mean, Because I was on the West Coast, So it wasn't as much other than the hits if Illow with the World and stuff like that will play on the radio all the time, you know what I mean. But I didn't, like, you know, my family, super West coast, so they didn't just have his albums on repeat. But I did have friends who, you know, you know, if I was the jay Z guy, I got a homeboy who was the NAS guy, and we've back and forth takeover ether or whatever, you know what I mean. And that's just like I don't know, like probably sounds like for you too. For me, that like both of them didn't enter my my world. A's like beloved beloved artists until like that that Beeftime like Eat and take Ut, but like you know, like illmatic when you talk to anyone from New York, that's just like hands down easily. But it's like for me, it's like ninety four death Rows going insane out here. So there's no really swallowing that up. Yeah, you know, but I get it now though, I get it. And his longevity is just speaks to you know what he's always been like, he's been doing it since he was sixteen seventeen. For him to be forty nine, it's just like still rapping at a high level, projecting his voice at the highest level. It's his voice sounds I think the best it's ever sounded. Crazy. So when when you guys are in sessions, will you guys discuss his approach on the song, like the way he's attacking a song or beat or his kid like yeah, I mean it's it's it's both ways. Sometimes I'll come in and you know, I might be like, yo, you should you should start rapping at this bar, like it might it might not be the one, or it might be just like a off place, and then I just let him just take get from there, and he usually sparked another idea for me, like like sometimes with the hooks, he'll record something and I'll just take the last word or what he said or last line the way he said, fly it back and kind of just structure a hook and then let him finish it out. And it just makes it easy wherever he going, I'm going, and we're just making it work. So you'll structure a hook out of something that he may be intended as a verse exactly. I heard stories about Dre doing that for like Snoop back on like the Crime Again and Doggy Style, Like Snoop would just freestyle something like but it intended to like that's the verse, but it'd be like it's about that pocket, the way it's hitting a pocket us like as a producer or whoever, if you're a songmaker, you will just hear certain things that maybe the artists not paying attention to it. And it's like, I'm trying to take advantage of all this shit. This is not like that's your job to hear what the open to it? He opened him my ideas, so and that's that's that's where I'm empowered, just like him being able to see my vision when when I play it, beat it the beating, I might might not even be all the way done. But if I'm excited about something, I got a chord structure or some drums and put it together and like he down the right to it, he down the rap on it, just that baseline, like unfinished. Yeah, Colonel of an idea, that's it because most you know, especially now in the new age, if it don't sound like the top of rap Caviard a number one song, some like artists won't even pay attention to it. They don't want to build and really like make a song. Most a lot, not most, but a lot of artists. Yeah, I mean that's probably that's a real vulnerable place for you to be as a producer. Yeah, it's only in my career, Like, I'll sit there and just go through as many beats as it took. But now it's like, man, if we got to go past maybe five beats, well probably you should just go find another producer. Will will reconvene, just come pull back up on me and we'll lock in when it's time, you know, because I feel like, if I'm gonna have an artist come in, I'm gonna play them something that I could hear them all and if we're not on the same wave length, and that just is what it is. Yeah, the Rihanna join you did on Anti that one, that was one that it took a while, right. I did two on antide Polls and the song Whoa, and that was that was a build. That was a process. I had the basis of it though when we sat down. I was in the room with Travis Scott the Weekend, Tide Dollar Sign and the Dream and I just had my uh I had to contact sort of NPC and I was just playing with them guitar stabs and just came up with that pattern and everybody in the room just when crazy started humming melodies and writing to it and it just got built out progressively. That's got to be a help of feeling to have that room start vibing. Yeah, I'll just remember like Weekend Singing Melodies, Travis coming up with his wave and it came together. But it was a Rihanna session, so you knew whatever was end up for that project. Okay, okay, a couple of songs from the last few NADS records I want to talk about just to having Premiere cut on way, guys, that was ill. That's because it was like a collective thing. Like when Rocky came through to do his verse, he was like, Yo, we should get Premiere to scratch on this, and it was like yo, me and Nas was low key already kind of thinking like that. So it just made sense who hit Premiere. That had to be Nas just tapped in with him and he did it off the love, you know what I mean, just went in and made it sound like authentic Premiere vibes. Do you have any notes on it? Nah? Then it was solid? So you do EPMD? How did the EPMD concept for the Ryan Coogler film Judas and Jack? How did how did that concept come up? For that? I just had to beat and uh Nas walking the stuard. I was playing it loud and he just start coming up with flows and then set the EPM D line and just went from there. We just built it out and uh it was four king Kings Disease two like that was supposed to be a record on there ended up being a remix on King's Disease too, but the original was just it was supposed to be for the album. And I was involved in Judas and the Blackmo side kind of like heavily on the executive production side. So I actually put a record on my own with me rapping on their car broad day. They was just like, yo, we need more records. I just start submitting joints and EPMD that was like this is perfect. And they ended up doing a video and all that and that's amazing. But to them, when did you guys inside do you want to still keep it for the record? We just love a joint and Nas, I guess was. I forgot how the Eminem thing came about, but he just was like, man, we should throw him and him on it. Reached out to him. He did the joint quick, you know what I mean, hopped on it. EPMD didn't even know that Eminem was on it until it was about to drop, you know what I mean. So that was an ill moment, just like it all coming together and everybody from their own air just getting their respect. That's one of those records man, where it's like, again, that's why these projects are so incredible. Man, like just getting premiere on that magic joint. But when you had Lauren Hill on Katie two, Yeah, you know what I mean, that's something like, Okay, as a producer, you just like, don't first of all, she don't even like rap like that much, no more much. It's like for me to like have a premiere Lauren Hill rap verse on one of my beats. That's just ill. Yeah. Once the last time you heard of Lauren Hill verse, like a new Lauren Hill. She went in, she went in and for bars, bars, like she was like two verses, put in the one. How did that come up? They just cool Nas and Lauren Hill. So through them talking, I guess they wanted to do a joint. And Uh when we made the song, Nas was like this, this is the one we gotta put Lauren on. And did he have his verse already? Yeah? He did, he did, He had his verse and uh sent it over and she literally did she did it within days, Like did you think it was really gonna happen? I didn't personally, but it just like came together. Man. It was ill again, even the resisting the temptation to do the obvious, which would be to do like if I row of the world too. You know that concept was dope for her too, because she do be on herd. You know, nobody was just like out the way type vibe as far as I could see. And yeah, it just brought the concept all the way home, did she? And she recorded it, she recorded in her own space but sent the vocals in and yeah, it was just a moment. What about death Row East? Death Row East? That was the first song we did for Katie too. Man, that set the tone, like that concept is powerful, some moment that a lot of people, a lot of Internet talked, a lot of podcasts, people telling the recollection of what happened at Bryant Park between NAS and Park and death Row and NAS click and he just ave you was straight like POV of what really happened. How much was death Row in POC and Johnny Jay and how much is that like all part of the consciousness? Yeah, I downloaded that DNA from just hearing it all the time, like that was like massive on a commercial level in underground like everybody rock with the Death Row stuff like Snoop poc all that and doing that song, I just was like, man, I need to tap into as much as I can as far as like pot producers go. And then I just like already watched like documentaries and stuff on Johnny Jay, and I was like, that's the producer I need to channel the most on this song. What made you feel that? Because it just reminded me of a Tupac beat like Death Row type of vibe, like that melotted kind of guitar stuff with the groove over it. It just yeah, it had that energy. It's an incredible beat. Man. Appreciate the locking him with Nas for those records. You locked him with Soul Child. It's really rare these days, and it's funny, like I guess it maybe it goes back to even Elmatic when like Nas having all those incredible producers his first record really kind of seemed to popularize like having a bunch of different producers on your record. But yeah, what you're doing now is rare. Man. I appreciate that. Yeah, I mean, yeah, just that's the flip side of that. Now it's like he started off working with just all different bunch of different producers. Now he've been locked in with me for three years, and it's like, don't seem like we stopping no time soon, Like we're really having fun with it. So where are you finding the time? Then? So you know, within thirteen months, it's it's Katie two, It's Magic, It's Katie three. And now you're out with your own record, right surf and the Soul Trial Record Music Soul Trial Record, Like, how like, where are you finding the time? Man? I just gotta just go just like don't don't don't not to say don't think, but just like really any type of energy that I can put into being in the studio and just progressing with my sound and just helping other artists. I I'm on that, you know, this is what I worked for to have artists trusted me on this level. Now that I got that, it's like I gotta like really hold that up high and take advantage of this, Like these opportunities. How natural does rhyming still come to do? Writing and performing? Man, this is like getting so much easier, I would say, just because I've been in the studio with people like Big Sean, like with you know what I'm saying. I executive produced Detroit too for Big Sean. Did a project call what you Expect to EP with him. I mean being around Bennie the Butcher. I produced, you know, his album Burdening Proof in twenty twenty. That was, like, you know, just kind of heavy on the underground and working with nas Man. I'm working with some top tiered artists, the premier I'm like, you know, they watching and being fans and studying, you know, just as far as what I'm doing on the production and I'm doing the same on the artist end. So that's just helping me cultivate a whole just next level of myself. Have you always been writing on the side, Yeah, for sure. I always been dropping projects, dropping singles, just like you know, That's always been my passion. But it's like the beatmaking aspect of it is so much fun to me that I just took a liking to it, you know what I mean. I feel like if I would have been chasing trying to be an artist all these years, who knows, you know, it could have worked out, couldn't have. But now It's like I have an ultimate cheek code, Like I could see the studentate and make songs all day. As soon as one of the greatest artists living, you know, lead a studio, whoever that may be. You know what I mean, I'm able to start recording my own stuff. They didn't left that energy in the studio. I watched them put bars and lines together, and you know, it's just like it's just helping me with my own structure. That's incredible, man, that you that you're able to sit there and watch the people at the best of the best. Yeah, and having just like the mind to want to, you know, look at it a different way, like I'm in there really trying to learn. I'm trying to get better every day, Like I ain't wasting no time. We're gonna take one last quick break and then come back with the rest of my conversation with hit Boy. We're back with hit Boy. How was it being around as a producer MC? How was it being around Yea in the in your good music years when I first moved to Atlanta. After that time I deal with Polo that was like my college years and like the years with Kanye was like the oh I got a job that's at a high level, but I gotta still learn, you know what I mean. I still got a lot of learning to do, like understanding like this thing moves quick and you have to move fast. You gotta be efficient. You gotta be on top of it at all times. And that's really what that taught me, Like you gotta be putting like he was sleeping in the stool, like wake up, saying clothes, we start recording, start whatever, like chopping up samples. I'm just like that's the level. Yeah, it's almost like yeah, seen, um, haven't watched that genius documentary and just seeing some footage or yeah in the studio almost reminds you like when you see those little clips of like POC and the studio, like and it's just the energies on a hundred, like there's there's work to do, like let's do the world Like he ain't he not in there planing and he ain't gonna be nice about it, and he's not gonna be polite talking softly. He's gonna let you know, like you fucking up, like like do this shit the right way type shit? You know what I mean? You ever catch that wrath the first time I sat down to make a beat with him was the song lift Off. I watched the Throne. He had me trying some drums and some other instrumentations. This is when I don't think I had ever really got a session from nobody, and they told me to basically rework it and strip things away. Like he kept telling me to strip these these drums away, but I couldn't really understand exactly how he was saying it. So he started kind of firing up on me to where I had to really look at it. I'm like, we just met, holie, you know what I mean. Like so it's like, yeah, but that just like taught me, Like, nah, bro, he I remember his exact words. Uh. I just kept forgetting to mute the drums or something was going on, and he was like, these drums are gonna be the death of me. Like I just remember. I'm like, it's that serious. Bro. I'm like, that's crazy, you know what I mean. But you know that's his passion. That's why he got twenty something Grammys or however many and his respected on that level. It's because he don't he's not playing. You don't seem like the kind of person. End ever like be like that. But have you moved close from that time? Have you moved closer on the spectrum of like just sort of more relaxed, like, yeah, sure we didn't have our We've been super cool. I mean we ain't in contact like that right now, but I just mean, like creatively for you, like, have you moved closer towards that like kind of almost perfectionist kind of vibe. Way, I'm all way, I'm just like a much more chill personality than he is. Yeah, even though we both geminized. He a Julan Jim and I'm may mean biggie got the same birthday and yeah, but I definitely like, you know, like she gotta get done. Yeah. Yeah, when Niggas and Paris became what it became, Yeah, what was that feeling like for you? It was ill because Kanye had been telling me like through emails, because I was the one song I didn't hear off the album. I had heard most of them songs, and I had heard like the song I had did other songs that I was excited about that I'm thinking gonna be on watched the Throne. None of them made it anywhere, and Niggas and Paris was the one random beat out of maybe sixty seventy beats. I had sent Kanye through email and he somehow pulled it up when it was in Paris and they must have been lit vibing and played it and it just turned them up. So yeah, but he was I hadn't linked back with him, like for like a month and a half, two months. I was out in Cali, he was in Paris and wherever. And when I went to they had to listening party at the Observatory in New York, crazy like stars on the ceiling and all that, playing the album super loud. He brought in some crazy speakers and I just like the first two songs played got to niggas in Paris. Everybody in observatory stood up. DJ Klo was next to me and just everybody was vibe and just like, oh this the one right right? So I'm like, man, yeah, it just worked out. Damn yeah. As a young producer at the time, that really being your first, like you called it earlier, first real big hit. Did that put pressure on you on? Do pressure on you or to make you feel like, all right, now everything's gonna be hits? Or what did it? Man? It's all that, all the above, you know what I mean. That's how I got to that point to where you know, I had to had that surf drown moment. I was from Niggas in Paris to that was twenty eleven to twenty seventeen. Just was like this all the way until it got you know what I mean, really feel that way, Yeah, I do. Personally, you just on just just for the You're still making good records and all that, exactly, still making records like you know, sorry even came out twenty fifteen sixteen off Lemonade, and you know, I'm working with these people, but I'm seeing a way I'm not getting the respect. I'm not getting it I'm getting. You know, I'm looking on Twitter. I watched I pay attention to socials. I pay attention. I'm looking at what people saying, like we're hit boy, yeah, hit boy fell off, hit boy this, hey boy? That mind you. It's like I got records that's been recorded with you know, jay Z and Beyonce on them, and I've you know, got stuff with Travis Scott and all that. But it's like the niggas in Pairs situation. Definitely, like just like was a crazy ride because like I attracted you know, different label deals and stuff like that that I was able to get a lot of money from but didn't know what to do with it, didn't know how to move, didn't know. I had to have the right infrastructure and the right you know, just team around me and all that. And that's was the learning curve. That was the YOUNA have to give this back to the game to get it back triple, you know what I mean, And just kind of programmed myself to you know, because it's like after that, you want to chase that, and then you start to feel like, damn, this song ain't being performed ten times, this song ain't played all day on the radio, so I fell off or whatever the case is. You want to chase that feeling, but you can't do that. You gotta understand that everything is gonna have his space like me and NAS And granted we haven't really pushed for this. We ain't had no giant, you know, radio record or nothing like that, but I get way more respect off of anything I ever did on radio, Off this Naz, all those things feel so much bigger than any like radio play, right, like bigger than any of that it's insane. Yeah, are other rappers from Naz's era are they looking at you in any way to thinking that they could replicate? I mean, oh yeah, I had a few people reach out, but it's like it gotta be right, you know what I mean. Like I worked on I mean, even Game is like after NAS obviously, but just like from that era of like real super hardcore rap. I did like six songs on Drillmatic for Game. Yeah, just like I feel like that was a I mean it's like he based kind of dramatic off Ilmatic, so it's like he definitely was inspired by Bro and I was just ill to, like, you know, have it all come for Circle because I had worked with him before in the past. Do you want to do more R and B? Yeah? For sure? I mean Bro, I mean I don't know what a like playlist they'll be putting, like Don Tyler in but I look at him as a singer, you know what I mean. I did two songs on his album, did a single on his last album as well, So you know, I'm doing these projects, but I'm also still getting my joints off and working with different artists. She did something on the Beyonce album. Even though I was like electronics, she still is like you know on some Queen R and B, Hey Danny, can you play play Thick in the car and take you back to Are you in the studio Beyonce when she's recording this, I was in the studio to play her to beat and I heard some early ideas. But this song was made and what a beat was made in twenty fourteen, so it went through a whole transformations. I don't even remember what the original concept. I don't even know if it was the thick concept, but she flushed it out and turned it into a joint. And I actually got the link with her before the album came out, heard some joints, heard she played me this final version, and I was like, man, it's just like crazy that you know, it took eight years for this to become what it is now? All right, man, I was just gonna say, because from the time I've heard that, I was trying to imagine you watch herd got to be in the room, like I didn't watch I didn't watch her record that, but I would have seen her record before. I was watching Beyonce record. It is what you think it is is, you know, what I mean, like real genius level, real thought out getting a song and just like doing it the exact way that the person you know might have gave it to her ass like she gonna flip something and move parts around and really like she gets like a producer, writer, artists all that. Yeah, So if that was so, you made that twenty fourteen, right, I made the beat twenty fourteen with the bridge and all that, with the chord changes I played and yeah, and back then, did you know it was going to be more of like a dance oriented No, that was that was that was way back because we had recorded a lot of songs back then. That was the one that saw the light of the day eight years later. Wow, that's that's why. Yeah, it wasn't like definitely not no electronic or like you know that type of way back then. But it's incredible that you also, like, I mean, you've talked about it a couple of times here, and it's it's it's it's something. It's actually Somethingody didn't think about too much until I was listening to your new record and I was listening to Slipping in the Darkness, which again I thought was gonna be a sample of slipping in the darkness. You don't go for the obvious. But I remember I think, all right, that's gonna be that sample, put an MBA of it's not, and then the beat flips. That's the different beat. Later I realized it is an alchemist be and you. I don't know if it's on some friendly shit or like what you call out a couple of producers, right, But in a way that to me was like interesting, like you're like, yeah, you could, you could do this, but can you chop soul? You could do? I heard you without a eight away, just asked questions and said what I personally haven't heard, Like these dudes could have a hundred boom bad beats in the stats that I just ain't heard. But I just made a statement saying that, you know, that's the sound I haven't heard from them. But look at Magic, look at or go to Travis Scott, go to Kanye West. You're gonna hear every sound from me. You know. The questioning though, it was brilliant because it really made me think. I was like, damn, like you really can do so many different things. Like I guess I knew it. It was more so like kind of like that too, like just promoting my versatility, promoting you know, and just kind of like carving a laying out for myself, like y'all got to really pay attention. Yeah, And that's what's been so tough for me, is like making a song like Troll for Drake and then making something for you know whoever. It's just like it's been one train for It's hard for you to connect that just generally, you know what I mean, Just and just on a human level, it's just like not easy to keep up with a lot of shit. So if I'm all over the place, it's like, you know, hit Boy isn't the household name because of that, And that's what I feel like, you know what I mean. And now it's like getting more to that point. But I had to create a linear thing, which is now me just doing albums for people. None of the beats sound the same one the albums, but you know I didn't, so it just connects with the brain a lot more. And that's one thing that also makes I think you doing a full album work also is that it doesn't necessarily sound like one producer like from like it doesn't sound like the same bag of tricks every song you know or whatever. It's like, oh, every song sounds varied, it sounds like it's there's there's a lot of movement musically throughout the records. Having fun, man taking advantage and just like I said, like I always tapping my younger self, like, man, if I had this opportunity, however long ago before I got on, like I would have wanted to match out. So I need to keep that same energy that has got to be crazy for your younger self to be four records and with nas unbelieve many collaborations with Beyonce and Drake and y'all. Was on beyonce last three albums. It's like, man, whatever she's seeing me like, I appreciate it because it's like she'd been she pulled me in, like Beyonce album, the Lemonade album and then the Renaissance. And these are records that people are gonna be not just listening to, but like studying for decades. Yeah you know what I mean. They're not like fly by Night records, right, Yeah, No, it's beautiful man for show. Shout out to her when people go back and look at Prince records and analyze every little thing and Michael records. My son three years old, Like I get in the card. He like played kids songs. I'm like, what you want to hear Michael Jackson like he thinks as kids music like, but that's how good it is. It is resonating with like a kid all the way to a gangster, to a politician, to a lawyer, anybody. For the most part, you could feel Michael Jackson music. So it's like, I want to, you know, be able to contribute something to the game on that that similar level. And I take a lot of work to take a lot of locking in. If you had like a vision for like what artistically I mean maybe career wise too, but where you're at five years from now, man, man, just like really uh giving back, you know what I mean, and create more opportunities for where music is going. And for kids that's like trying to do their thing, you know what I mean. I see my homeboys James find Leroy and laurents with fifteen hundred, they got a whole academy, they got to school. That's something that I want to, you know, lock in and be able to teach and just like really inspire the next generation. It's like the game is getting crazy. Like I've been seeing it. I've been saying it for years that it's getting easier and easier to make beats. And now they got the artificial intelligence. You could type in the sound of vibe and it'll make to be for you. I feel like it's only gonna get better. Anybody gonna be able to just have music at the the tip of their fingers now and just like make it sound quality somehow. So does that make you worry? Nah, that's just like I need to like link with some AI people and see how I can incorporate then to what I'm doing. It's just like that's where the world is going. Yeah, it is what it is. Like, I don't never like try to be anti what's going on. It's like I want to implement it and see how I can use my personal style along with some AI shit, you know. Yeah. Yeah, speaking the way like things have changed in production over the years, I mean you kind of even say it too, surf Drown. It's like I haven't really seen you without a bunch of like co producers. Like like the way that there's a bunch of the generous way of saying it is it's more collaborative process. Yeah. Sure. You know, the other way of looking at it is it's a lot of people getting points or whatever. I mean. I mean, yeah, like I said, it's like getting easier and easier to like make music, and then like you know, some people are finesss. That's that specific line though, was for one person kind of attacked me out of nowhere, and I'm just like, I've never seen one credit from you without a co producer, Like go look me up, you know what I mean, Like you're trying to downplay what I do. And that's just all that was. But I understand like Quincy might not even touch the drums or keys on any thriller songs, you know what I mean, But we still revere him and respect him, and we know his genius. We know that he contributed something that really mattered to that project to be the producer on every song and to be the executive producer. But you've got Greg feeling Games, you got the guy who is programming the drums and all that, But that don't that don't make him anything less. So it's like I'm not saying that it's not cool to work with other you know, musicians, I do that I got credits. You know, I'd be generous with letting my homies come in and if I hear something, it's like, yo, add a part to this, maybe try some drums here, Like you know, I'm still I'm still there conducting it though, you know what I mean, Like if you give me some pieces, I don't. I don't really just let people just freely do the thing, like I kind of just like kind of still guided. And that's what the genus part is. So you know, I understand that's part of the game. Some of the younger, young, young artists, are you enticed by working with them? For shure, I'll be down on the like you know something, and I'm like, man, I can't hear that funny now. It's crazy because before months this before like her like you know, following Drake and Drake following her artists, like I literally dimmed her and she came to LA and when she hit me up, like I just was kind of just moving around, probably doing too much and wasn't able to link. And I was about to link her before the fame, before like the real pop off and shit, like I've seen the vision. I knew it was coming. Did you see it from off that off the bust it Down challenge stand or what was it? What would you see? This is way back, bro. I just seen like the way she looked she had to look and like you know, she like just had something tools for the video for this is this is some time ago? Like you, I mean, I just was like I hit her up and gave her my number when she came in, but when she came out, we just never linked. It's got to happen, man, crazy, that's got to happen, because she was sounding real nice on your beats. Man. Man, Well, thanks so much for being gracious with your time, man, and for all the music. Man. I appreciate y'all having me. Man, it was set up for you. Go. I got alcohol because it's it's it's important man. How good NAS is sounding or on your shout out to David kim our engineer. He mixed all four projects, my homeboy. He makes a lot of other stuff, makes most of my music. But it's kind of like a perfect triangle offense, you know what I mean, between me and him and Nas as far as sonics and getting you know, everybody putting it all into what's going on. Like David is gonna go to extra mile to just make sure the music it's pumping in the vocal is just like sitting in a proper place, sitting perfect. Man. Whatever people was here and in the day where they felt like they couldn't lay their voice into your beats because it's too crowded, it's like, whatever's going on now? Man, it's like sonically perfect. Yeah, no for showing. I'm That's what I'm working on. I just like want the music. I'm trying to get to that thriller level where it's like just like going into your ears perfectly in just hitting the veins and the soul. You know what I mean what it does. And I'm telling you like having nods at thirty years later, yeah, sounding better than he's every sound. That's like having Whitney ten years ago coming out with her best record. So you know, like you got someone with an iconic voice sounding the best that they've ever sounded. That's why I'll be So I'm like, bro, you could say ABC one two three on the beat and your voice is so cold that it's gonna sound ill. So I'm like the words and the way you're putting it together, that's just like the mind blowing shit. Yeah yeah man, we must respect man appreciates to hit Boy for breaking down his production process and inspiration. You can hear all of our favorite hit Boy produced tracks on a playlist at broken record podcast dot com. You can subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash broken Record Podcast, where you can find all of our new episodes. Broken Record is produced with help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrell, Ventaliday, Nisha Vencut, Jordan McMillan, and Eric sand Our editor is Sophie Crane. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription service that offers bonus content and uninterrupted ad free listening for only four ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and if you like the show, remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast dat our fumis expecting beats on justin Richmond four