Gabriels

00:00:15 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Today we're featuring one of the most thrilling new groups and contemporary soul music, Gabriel's and Lucky for Us. They performed three songs, one of which is still unreleased live for Broken Record. The recordings were done in Austin a few months ago while they were there opening for Harry Styles and playing Austin City limits. Gabriel's consists of three very distinct pillars of talent. Lead singer Jacob Lusk, who was raised in comptoncing in gospel and went to high school with Kendrick Lamar, keyboardist and producer Ryan Hope, who grew up a lover of dance music in his native UK, and Los Angeles native Ari Belusian, who serves as Gabriel's in house composer and violinist. Gabriel's origin story is as unconventional as their diverse musical backgrounds. In twenty sixteen, Ryan Hope and Ari Blusian were hired to direct and score a commercial with a gospel choir. After hearing the choir director Jacob Blusk sing, a light went off for the both of them. Over the course of the next couple of years, the trio started to record him released songs independently until twenty twenty one, when their music caught fire online. Sir Elton John himself said their debut EP was one of the most seminal records he's heard in the last ten years. On today's episode, Rick Rubin sits down with Gabriel's to hear how they were able to create a working environment that allowed space for vulnerability and musical exploration, and Jacob Blusk tells a harrowing story about getting lost in the La County jail system in an effort to clear his name so he could appear in the finale of American Idol. This is broken record liner notes for the digital Age. I'm justin Richard. Before we hear Rick's interview with Gabriels, let's listen to them perform their upcoming new single Offering, recorded live at Arlan Studio and as in Texas. I don't want your love him one no more. I want to sacrifice. I've shown him proof down. I paid my does. Don't let you can at tire Mama, Hein raised, no fool. I know, yeah, you call the mocking bird right. My daughter told me a thing a cool You're bad. I hain't my advice? Show me this stingers man to me what he and something? Man don't want you harm one more? I need more time. You pick a bit. Damn it? Even your MoMA shap wasn't I walk on woking glass? Damness? Show man? She can't eve the shirt off my back to the fire. God, damn it. I'm tired. Why can't shoot? Just give me? Show me this thing was made to me? Whatever you need to me? Something I can't leave without show all of my dime. It's the true I watch the other shot makes some good away a bad turn Jay looking back as a start, but she can't do rag behind some show me distinguishment to me, give me, tell me I shouldn't it's me? Give me something whatever mention. Once again, that was offering off Gabriel's debut album, Angels and Queen's Part Two, recorded in one take at Arlan Studios in Austin, Texas. And now here's Rick Rubin with Jacob Lusk, Ryan Hope and r Belusian. First of all, why are you guys in Texas? We opened for Harry Styles? How was that? And how had that come to pass? Sha? I don't even know now I say that he asked for us to open for him. So he has a lot of different people opening for him. So I was told that he asks for us to open for him, Like he was the one who made that happen. I don't know, but it happened, and it was marvelous. He's actually a really nice guy. Yes black, he's genuine, Yes he is. I said, oh, this is what Alam Girls is going. Graze absolutely was that first like really big gig. That's where we did glass Glus where it wasn't it was ten thousand. It was outside a little different. So we did Elton John earlier this year, but it wasn't like it was different. Elton John happened. He found out our AP. I don't even know how he got it. We found our AP and he basically he asked us to on his Apple Music show. And this was before labels and everything. This was when we yeah, we self released it with like we put vinyl out ari and I you know, we release our own records and soundtracks, sorry soundtracks. Some kind of even was out on our label a Prayoser because we have a production company called the Prayerser that we released vinyl flu as well. It's just it's a backyard operation, but it's a studio that R and I worked through doing scoring and production, film production and stuff, and it's it's awesome. The people that we work with, you know, to like a boutique job, but they're putting the vinyl out is very backyard operation. That's just something we digs. We love to do it, like fucking put it out. We put out vinyl. And then Elton John some got old of it and he puts on his app with Music Show and then he just yeah, he said really nice things. He called the ape the most seminar apa in the last ten years, incredible and he listens to everything, so he knows, I'll tell you, he listens to every everything. It's crazy great taste. Yeah, I mean it was a big moment for us that really kind of like put it to have that happened when of course, you know, from something were just released, because that was really the three of us just releasing our music. It's like it never gets old when someone that do you think makes great things like something you do, it never gets Yeah, it's a great feeling. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It just it was like, honestly, it was really just I don't know, you know, the whole thing of like the Blue getting on the radio. It seems like everything so moved away from that. It's more streaming, it's more like social media bullshit. When we signed out a record deal, there wasn't one single photograph of the three of us. Amazing in the same fucking real amazing. I think when we signed the deal, I remember the masking for a picture of us, and none of none of had a photograph. We've known each other for years, living, none none of us had a picture on our phones or anything. So since the club show to playing with Harry Styles the other night, have you guys done loads of shows or a few shows? Maybe like thirty forty I'm not even probably not that many. And where would you have played Royal Albert Hall? Well we didn't. That haven't count all. That was an hour show. I see. It was for Letters Live, Letters Live one song. It was really cool, amazing, it was incredible. You know, I know about you guys tangentially because of Jamie who does Letters Live. Now? Is that so Amy Sullivan is a friend of mine. I think she works with Jamie and she was telling me about your book. Yeah, is that Jamie is is that who you did the book? Yes, Caningate is the publisher who was publishing in the book in the UK. And I was in London doing book related stuff right and Jamie said, up this lunch at a place called Cocos, which is a club, and I believe it was the person from Cocos who said you might want to check out this. I think you might like this. Nick shut out, And that was just maybe three weeks ago. Wow, that's three weeks ago. It's like, I feel like you might like this. That's my guy. I'm driving. I'm driving in the car and I put it on and he recommended which what to start with and it comes on. I'm thinking, like, I think it's a mistake because this sounds like this maybe this is an old record, you know, like this is something that came out in the sixties or seventies, Like this is an old record. And then I look and I look at the date twenty one. It's like, is it a sample? It's like what already playing the drums, already playing the case. I couldn't figure out what it was. But it also it didn't sound retro. It just sound und it like it was from another time. Yeah, it didn't sound like it was trying to sound like another It just sounded like what is this? And then it's like I couldn't figure it out what it was that that was the beginning of the Experienced. And then I sent that to my friend Justin who yeah we met here, Yeah, yeah, who does the podcast. I just said, what's up with these guys? And he's like, believe it or not, they're gonna be in Texas. When you're going to be there, it's like, okay, get the fuck out. Meant to be. But honestly, because you know, like yeah, you're he'd been a huge inspiration for us, like particularly for like Ari and I, you know, it produces. It's kind of like this thing where we were like, whoa, we're doing this right now. But to hear how it came around, it's just crazy. It's sexual conversation. Put it on just like I want to know more. And I still I didn't even know is it a group? Yeah? I thought Gabriel's maybe it's like brothers and sisters. Yeah, you know, maybe it's a family. I had no idea of that family idea. Also, because it was harmony, it's like, oh, maybe it's like a family that sings together. Amazing. That's why it sounds so no, no, no, that's why it sounds familiar because it's your voice. But you know how when brothers and sisters sing together, it's like there's a blend that doesn't happen when it's just random people. Yeah. Yeah, And I'm a little weird. I've done a lot of studio sessions, so I like trying to tweak my voice sometimes and I do the harmonies and stuff. It's great. Weird, but it's great. Wow, that's a crazy story. Yeah, amazing, Yeah, I come, yeah so wild. We'd love to play some songs for play some song. Let's play some songs. Shock, gosh time, Oh you come Shore Fi all the sun It's bad, but not for me. Don't bring the truth to the shame. I ken that shit show good a pump me to my knees about all the good and love and the WoT shavement. Cobley, all the eye, bring Coble, all running in my van. Dobble. I can't escape you, Dobble. I've asted eye all times, had people changed the same? We go dance, You'll be k me robid and everybody knows I must be sinking a head down. Fuck, I can't let you ship so sweet down sugar cane, gut me on my knees. But it's no way. I'm right only running in my vag candescape stit alright, another da old as time, Another four lost his mind. That was Gabriel's performing Taboo Live. We'll be right back with more from their conversation with Rick Rubin after a break, We're back with more of Rick Rubin and Gabriel's. So how did this project come to be? I was in college and at UCLA and from originally Los Angeles, the Valley, and I kind of stopped doing music in college. I was like classically trained on the viola or whatever, so I was kind of playing in orchestras and stuff. But then I lost interest in like being a professional musician whatever. So I was studying like linguistics and stuff, and then I just started getting into working on my friends, like short films and stuff like that. So I did one thing with someone who was an intern at the company. Ryan was signed to as a commercial music video director. I should say still I'm sign at the moment, so let's just get back. But yeah, it was kind of like a string quartet, church hymn kind of thing that was done to this kind of practical effects little film my friend had made. So then yeah, it was amazing. I mean I heard it. That's kind of how I read out to him because I was just that. It was my first week actually moving to la I used to from Sunderland and the northeast of England originally and then via London. I got approached by Roman Coppler's company to move over and I was directing a video for Farrell and two Chains actually some music films. My background and all about backgrounds. Really as are he says with their researcher. Actually he was like putting together the treatment for the job and I heard Ari's music because I loved it. Really that was about ten years ago now, And next thing I knew, I was in Ari's apartment and his apartment was tiny, it was fifty percent bed and then he had two Timpanies in there and didn't have the Internet. And immediately was like, this is my guy, you know, seeing I was like, anybody who's just shipped two Timpanies from Detroit to take up fifty percent of your apartment, I'm down with. So anywhere we basically became really good friends and we were He cooked me up with the studio in North Hollywood. We were making music together for years for film and we were making films together as well. And that's how you met Jacob, who came into a custing for a job that I was doing. And they were the fourth choir who him in. He was a choir director and I basically just I mean, it doesn't take a science. So they have very guerrilla tactics. So they booked the choir. I auditions really stressed me out. My aunt was like, well, Jacob, can you take the church choir? And I was just like, yeah, I'm not really want to audition and do all that, Like I don't want to go through that. So she talked really bad about me. So I ended up doing it anyway, Like who do you think you are? You think you're hot? Shit? Huh fuck you? So I did it. And they how many were in the choir? Fifteen maybe yeah, twelve maybe it's yeah. And it was the church choir. So these are like the pastor was in the choir. These are like normal everyday working class They weren't like professional singers, and so they booked them. I think they booked them because of the energy and the vibe. They could sing too, but we're like a family church. Everyone was really close in Lamurt Park, like Crenshaw area. So they booked the choir and then they went to Ari's studio. I didn't go because I was like, I'm not going. Y'all can go so that Sunday and true Ryan is the kind of person and Ari too. If they want to get it done, they're gonna get it done. But it was always idea. He was like, I was just kind of like I was so involved up. It was always idea, which was a pretty divided in Did you already know in your minds it's a group or no, not at all. I know this is a long story. I still not sure it is. So they come to the church and when I get out of church, they have set up a remote studio in the choir room. Now at this point they hadn't heard me sing, but I think the people in the choir were like, oh, Jacob is the guy who do sings and does all this. We just do what he tells us to do. No, we saw you sing in the church service. Oh you did? Okay? Afterwards that if he tried to it with most Like he literally just was like this was at the early stages, and this this wasn't even just trying to like be a group or anything. We were just trying to get the job were j It just became really clear at a certain point where Jacob was direct, he knew all the parts, you know, he could arrange the whole choir, and he was leading everybody, and the job was still a piece of music for a movie. That's kind of like that we started there. So it was like this thing where we ended up getting to really good friends went in the process and we were just sort of like mating up at either are his place or my place out in the desert, and these guys would come out and stay and we were honestly just making music, really failing our way of how to make songs. And there was something where like I can think speak on be off the three of us that when we left these times when we like would come together hang out for a few minutes, I mean, these guys stay at my house, and it was like all of a sudden, like Jake was like this guy's like were stay in his house, Like Yeah, Jacob to this day never really he never he never stays out anywhere. He's like he's really a little bit. But he really didn't. He didn't let us know that that he was like honestly, it was just something internally was like crazy, actually see this out. Yeah, And we just were making music for fun, and we would stay for like a week, and we were just really slow process. Maybe stay for a week, maybe get like one or two songs, like little ideas, and we were kind of seeing where we all, this is happening in La or was this happening I was happening in the desert at the time, because I moved out there to write the film with somebody who key would coop came to live with me for a year. So these guys would come in week one. So everybody lives in California, now, yeah, well I'm half of I live in LA but it's spent a lot of time in the UK. I see yeah, I see yeah. And I live up in Pinion Crest, up in the mountains and just got a place out there, and then Ari's in Burbank. And then as we started when we did Loyalty, that was the first song we actually really finished. Was for a proud of commercial that R and I were working on, and we did the song basically for the commercial and then the song was just strong. All these people were like hit so just like, oh, you've got any more material and we're like yeah, and we had fuck all you know what I mean? We because that twenty eight thing. Yeah, yeah, and that was the first thing that felt like we were like, oh we have us this is a song, you know. And it was strange because we actually wrote the length of a whole song or was it just sixty second and then we were like add an extra verse and it back and yeah, and then we made it a complete and then it ended up on Radio one in the UK, like and we had it was or there were any other songs nothing. Yeah. What was funny was we wrote the lyrics based on what the little short film was about in a weird way, so it just gave immediate content to write about in this way, which is very much the style of what we've developed. Right. It's like it started like it's like that, but really like even we just did the Taboos, our most recent song right like that we wrote Yeah, we we literally wrote that third song. We just played that. We wrote that like eight weeks ago. Oh yeah, seven weeks ago. But but our writing vibe is it's very cinematic and that we and I've done some acting in some theater and stuff. We literally in TV and film whatever, but we literally sit ourselves in the room of whatever it is, What does it smell like, what does it feel like? And once we get that clear, the songs just like the thing what's been like the thing that's been a real cutlast that we've been wrangling with is like that's been the thing that we've done from get go. I mean, I met Ari is like a composer. You know, he was composing films when I met him, and it's like this thing where the three of us about this film thing. But we've kind of been through this process where that just yeah to technique for writing lyrics. But what's the point, right, It's kind of like something we've been development of getting the heart into that from a personal angle is what we've been working on. And in order to do that, you kind of need to trust each other. And I think like the thing we've learned the most is like trust is the gear keeper of the real thing, and you have to know each other for a long time. When you create it from people from around the world, different stuff. And that's kind of when the magic really started coming in, when it was actually that rather than just writing film stuff. Yeah, and it was just us coming as very different people disagreeing on things, you know, like how we live our lives, how we see the world, but we can agree to disagree and also where we kind of come in the center and becomes what it is. It's like fifty teach and learning thing, you know, where it feels great. Yeah. Likewise, it's like this thing where you know, somebody once said to me once that that's the definition of joy, beauty and happiness is when an energy fails in fifty fifty balance with any other energy failed, it's when the experience of joy, beauty or happiness occurs. And that is like teaching and learning becoming the same thing, by the way, and like that's what I really truly believe that, Like the songs that we have that are the good ones come out of that. Yeah, beautiful, when did you start singing in church? How old were you? So here's the thing, I really wasn't that good. I was younger. Yeah, I could just be honest. Were you in the choir when you were young or no. I wasn't allowed to get into the choir until I was like ten or eleven because you have to like be filled with the holy ghosts and stuff. It's this whole thing. And then when I got in the choir, I was loud and I had all this stuff, but I didn't know what to do with it. And the church I grew up in the pastor sons were kind of famous musicians, so we had like all these amazing singers and musicians and stuff, so there wasn't really space for this kid who's a mess, and not in a negative way. It just I just didn't know what I was doing. It's like you have a toolbox and you're just like throwing a hammer at a nail. It's like, what is he doing? And then I started singing in school, and I kind of got recognized pretty quickly in school because it once you, once you like put me on the path, I can like fly. So in school, they put you on the path. And when I got my in my senior high school, I realized I wanted to do music, but it was kind of like not realistic, and so I was going to join the millet Terry. They offered me a hundred grand to join. Sometimes I still regret it not going. So I moved down. I kind of moved out like pretty much on. Mom was like, if you ain't doing that, you ain't gonna be an his house singing. So I went to college, not studying music. I took a voice class and the lady was like, you were born to sing. So I was going to do classical music. That was my thought, because that's a plan. I can go to school, I can get a degree, and even if I'm in the chorus at the met I'll make seventy five grand a year. Like that's I could do. You'll be work a working singer. Yes, I could do that. And then I started answer going to Craigslist and answering ads on Craigslist where there was an ad for a hip hop artist looking for background singers for a Christmas project. So I went. I auditioned, I saying I believe in you, and me ended it up being Nate Dog. I don't know if you know who Nate Dog is. So it was a Nate Dog. And when was this? This was two thousand and six or seven a while ago, Oh my god. Yes, And you've been doing it for a while. Oh my god, a lot of time. Okay, So I did that and then I was a good experience. It was a great experience. I dropped out of college. I dropped out of college. I was like, I'm gonna be a singer. That was it. It was like nay dog. And then I and he kind of took I missed the train one night and I lived maybe a three hour train ride from the place, and I saw I spent the night and we talked and I started writing with him, and that was like and he had a stroke and I could. We went in work for a while, and then I did Idol and then that. You know, it was a beautiful experience. Tell me about that. I know very little about that whole world. It's great. How do you first of all, how do you get picked? How many people are there competing to even be on the show. Maybe one hundred and twenty five thousand, I think the year I did a lot. There's a lot a lot. So how did it get down from one hundred and twenty five thousand to you? Well, I audition four times. You should tell Rick how you got on this show. Yeah, you should tell him that this is this is like this is a big part of like audition four times, yes, twice. The year I made it, they added la last minute and I went by myself. I had just got a job, and I was like, oh my god, I got I fucked this American out of bullshit. They're gonna tell me no anyway, Well, the job hired too many people, so I had to wait a week to train my grandmother. I didn't have any money. She gave me fifteen dollars for the bus. I didn't have my ID at the time. Like I should not have been able to audition. I was able to audition. I made it through. And then I was like, hey, I have these tickets, you know, because you can't so you can't have an open ticket. So let's say today you ran to stop signing. You got a ticket. You can't be on American idol. It has to be paid off and cleared. You can't have any pinning court cases. So I had tons of them. I had. I got a school a ticket for ditching school. I had tickets for not riding the train without my ticket, like hopping on the train. So I had warrants all kinds of stuff for like stupid. Yeah, little things. So I go there and then like okay. So I was like, hey, guys, have these tickets. Are like, well, why don't you make it first, because you probably ain't even gonna make it, so just chill out. But I let them know. So I go through all the steps and I finally get to the celebrity judges and I make it You're going to Hollywood. So then they send you to a private invested They ask you all these questions about your life. Yeah, have you done this, have you done this? Have you done this? Have you been here? Have you been there? Have you been here? And they say it's to protect yourself, but also to protect the show so if anything comes out, like they know what's going on. So go through all that and then I was like, well I have these tickets. You're like okay, well you have to have these tickets cleared up by Thanksgiving because Hollywood Week is in December and you can't come here with these tickets. And I was like, okay, I'm on it. So the next day, in the same clothes, I go to the courthouse and I go, hey, have these sickts I want to getting cleared up. They go, okay, well, you can get a court date for January fifth. It'll take care of the warrants, but you'll I was like, no, that's not gonna work because I can't I can't wait till jan I need to see a judge right now. Well there's no available time, so you can't kiss grits or you can pay for it. It's five thousand dollars. Well, I ain't got five thousand dollars and I wouldn't even think to ask my grandma to ask five thousand dollars, so I'm not to go on American idol like are you stupid? That's not gonna work. So it quickly cocked up an idea. I was like, leave it alone, don't touch it. So I go next door. I go to the police station and I say, hey, i'd like to turn myself in. I have warrants. I need to go to jail. I'm happy as a lark. And they're like, oh, well no, we can't. We can't do that. I was like, well, yes, you can't. I have warrants. Well no, these are like like these are train tickets, buddy, We're not going to take you to jail for train tickets and stuff like we're not, and I was like, no, I really need to go. And now what's interesting is I was an explorer at this same police station the year before. Explores like a little mini police officer. Cool. So they like train people in the hood to get them comfortable with the police and then delt you know, it's a feeding thing, you become police officer. So I was ironically explore at the same police station. She felt comfortable going there. Yeah, I was like, take me to jail, bron. They would not take me to jail, so I sat there for an entire hour. Two hours goes by. I'm not gonna say he can y'all please take me. I'll call my grandma. My grandma mother, go to jail. She's like, no, what are you talking about? And then my phone goes dead because I don't realize how serious jail is. Yes, anyway, fast forward, so they I finally take me to jail. Finally, after like hours and hours, I'm like, I am trying to do the right thing. Take me to jail. I really only want to go so that I can see a judge, because they have to, and then I can get the tickets taken care of. So they finally picked me up. So I get in the car and he's like, Okay, what is your deal, bro? Like, what is your problem? Like, you're a good looking guy. What the fuck is wrong with what? You're trying to go jail? Like what's the problem. So I say, well, I'm auditioned for the show. Yeah. Yeah, and that's the only way I can see a judge. He was like, oh, okay. Cool. So he's like, well, you shouldn't go to jail with those nice clothes on, like this is jail. So I was like, I was like, well, oh, He's like, we I'll stop you. I'll stop by your mom's house and let you change clothes. I think he was trying to like, now that I'm thinking about it, like hopefully someone will come and help me and tell me don't go to jail, like it's not a game. Yes. So I get to my mom's house. She left the door open for me. He goes, she left the door open for you. Why would she do that? And I was like, well, because my mom has thinking about giving me a key to her house. This is her house, like, and I don't live there. So he goes in gun drawn. The neighbors see him going in Wow, guns are drawn. Yeah, So he brings out my clothes. I changed clothes. I go to jail. So I go to Lindwo Jim. I'm sorry, this is a long story. No, it's fine, all right, I'm curious. I go to Linwood. Y'all do my mug shot. I'm like, I gotta look fierce and look too happy because I know. I know that if I make it on the show and I do well, which is what I'm hoping will happen, yes, this is gonna come out. Yeah. So I do my face, I do my photo. So I go to the courthouse right now, mind you, this is like stupid ticket bullshit. So it's gonna get clear. It's gonna be done, of course. So I go and he's like, okay, great, all right, well just dismiss the ticket. You're fine, buddy, you don't worry about it. It's gun you've been in here, you've been to jail. Nowaday, it's all taken care of. Well, that didn't happen. So after I see the judge, I go back and it's getting later and later. I'm like, hey, guys, I'm supposed to go home, and they're like yeah, sure, and I'm like no, no, no, I'm really supposed to go home, Like this is not like, this is just you know, Linwood is like I still have my clothes on, like it was my own little room, Like oh okay, sure. So now it's like six or seven o'clock and now they put me in shackles and now I'm going to Twin Towns, which is not cute. So now I'm in Twin Towers for three days. I get lost in the system. Wow, So it doesn't even show that I'm in jail, so nobody knows where I am. I can't get out. I don't and I've never been to jail before, so I was like, well, I'll just sit here. The Lord will make away. So after a couple of days, I finally get out, like and I run home in the rain. It was very like, very much like a movie. I caught the train without a fair again. I got on the train and did not pay my fair. Again. Yes, it's the purple line that people leaves are never run the purple line. Yeah. And I run home in the rain, and then you know, and then I do. Then I get to Hollywood Week and it seems like every step there was like a thing where I should have been cut, but I wasn't. So I did Hollywood Week and then I sang a song called Goblin's a Child, which I said it was like the best ever auditioned on the Idol. Then I did the show and the show was beautiful. You become famous overnight, like it's nuts. You're in magazines and you know, I placed fifth, the winner of Scotty McCurry amazing to think of. Everyone was really great in my season. The judges were incredible, like Jail taught me how to wear my in ears. Like it was a beautiful experience. What they don't prepare you for is the social media craziness because they'd never had social media before. So I was not like it was crazy. The comments people say, they say a lot of nice things to say a lot of bad things. I wasn't ready for it. And then they don't prepare you for the fall after, because I was. They make you feel like, if you do the show and you do well, I did place fifth that no matter what. And actually someone told me this, you have enough money to live on for the rest of your life. That was a lie. Yes, So I get off the show and you have nothing. I had a couple deals here and there that were off and on. But it was a struggle like being an artist. It was like starting over from scratch, even worse because people want to touch you because you're on the show. You're on the show. So I had some ups and downs and went through that and in and out. Had a church gig here at a church there. There, I had a management situation that ended kind of badly. They canceled all my gigs for the rest of the year and dropped me and took and kept the money. Wow. And so I was like, well, I'm gonna get a job. And I worked for a sunglasses company called Good and that helped kind of push me into this, Like I had never been an environment where I was like loved and told to be myself and be comfortable on who you are. And even in music, I had never really felt that way because you got to think, I have my start writing, so when you're writing for the artists, you're writing in their style. Yeah, right, And so I had never had a space to really find what naturally just comes out of my body. Right, even in church I'm doing a church thing, I never got to what naturally just comes out. But this has allowed me to really just whatever naturally comes out, and they've pushed me to do that, and it's been a safe place for me to do that. So it's just been absolutely life changing between Goodder and these two white men, even though he's not why he's technically are I meaning an American, it's been it's between Goodder and them. It's been in the last few years. I never you're not you dream of a thing, but you're like, I don't know if it's really gonna happen, and I don't know. I don't know what I would have done. Tell me more about your family. I grew up in Compton. My father died when I was twelve. Really suddenly, my mom is from Georgia. My grandmother is from Georgia's where they moved to la when they were younger. When my mom was very little, my grandmother remarried. Her husband died in a car accident, and she had never worked, so they My family experienced a lot of death in tragedy, like a lot of it. It's kind of nuts. My uncle committed suicide a few years ago. He jumped off a building, and it's been like, it's nuts, But there's this thing I kind of interviewed my grandmother when we re released the EP and for her to experience all that, and she said she was she learned really young. There are no mountains too high to climb, yes, And I was just like, oh my god, this little lady, this is what she thinks. And there's a little bit of me that kind of feels ouay too. But anyway, I'm an only child, only grandchild on my mom's side, so I was very kind of sheltered. And I grew up in Compton. This is a little hood, you know what I'm saying. But my mother did everything that she could to make sure that I was able to experience other things and know that there was another way of life for me where she fucked up what she made me feel like I could be anything. And so I really believe that even sometimes when you don't like you have those normals where you doubt it and you're like, nah, it's not gonna happen, there's always this little bitty piece of me that's like looking at ten million dollar houses in Pasadena. Yeah, but maybe maybe this band wouldn't wouldn't have happened if you didn't keep that thought alive. You know, it's impossible to know, impossible to know. And I'll say this, the world and the music industry in particular has not been a place that I felt like harbored individuality. It did not feel like ace. And this is no I'm not bashing anyone. I had beautiful experiences. I've worked to some of the most basic people in the industry. But it doesn't harbor people being themselves. It doesn't harbor people being comfortable in themselves. And then you even get people who are enemy needs ministry. He really shouldn't be because it doesn't. It's not a safe place for that's people that's really their heart. And so with this experience, it's allowed me and pushed me to like, this is the most of myself I've ever been congratulationship. That's crazy. I'm gonna tell you how old I am man a guy. But it's to now be at this place where I'm actually starting to look at myself and like be okay with myself, Like when I was younger and fine and had body ya ya ya yadi. Oh my god, what would have happened if I was able to embrace myself and my voice and who I and and really fine, my real voice. Then oh my god, it's this long. And my hope is that when people grab onto that, like when they see our shows, like, oh well shit, let me be myself too, and find out what really makes me happy, what really makes me hold whatever that is, even if it's not because some people, I think a lot of people doing shit they don't really want to fucking do still want to fucking work that job. Most find what really makes you happy. I'm sorry, I'm going on a rant. Beautiful, I am the most happy with these guys. Yeah, I am the most happy. I want it's just us. Yes, these fucking white boys who are completely different than me, Yes, who are like, oh damn, these are my brothers, Like these are my bros. That's beautiful and it's been the best experience in my life. I'm sorry, No, I love it. I love It's beautiful. And now you, hopefully you'll be in a position to turn other people onto that possibility. Yes, and maybe it's not just through the shows, but maybe there are other ways, and it'd be interesting for us to talk about that and figure out what that is. Because I love the idea of spreading that message because ultimately it's good for everybody. It's good for it's good for you to feel like yourself. But then we get to hear the music that's true coming from you because you feel like yourself. And if artists don't feel like it can be themselves, what do we get to listen to? What do we get to, what do we get to see? It all becomes the same. You know, it's all just everybody trying to be someone else, and none of it's interesting and none of it's good, and nobody cares, and people making it don't care about it. The people scrolling through what they're going to choose don't choose it because it's all the same and it's all cookie cutter and it doesn't matter. So the fact that you're having this experience, you're getting to work on something different that excites you. It's the best advertisement for more good things to come. And when I say more good things come, I don't mean copying what you're doing. I mean people doing their their own thing, whatever it is. Okay, I'm ranting with you. We feel like we feel exactly. They couldn't have said it. You pretty much just said exactly what goes on when we're halfway between ordering chick fil I'm watching a Brittany documentary. We have to take a quick break here, but we'll be back with more from Rick Ruben and Gabriel's baby Girl is finding nineteen, raised on Cafish and cold green, brown ass, smugging real schweet kid in time with a strong heartbeat. Michael said, she's gonna break my heart and then take my should she try to help me stop in Mangan shame bitch done in fashion sheet show the shore beauty twink, I slow them shame. Nobody said that you ain't got the basic changing game and change in eye. You're just another motherfucker looking up at the nerrorball just where I could show somebody helped me. I've been feeling behind and sweep been needing you. It's time down for me to come this spichit thing the sky cra still like we cock you win. I can cook a ren again. I don't need nothing but time. It will be just fine. We think went from no matter what, STA trail me up some down and I sad that I came shot speak Ja gets always Ja like it's always. That was Gabriel's performing their song Angels and Queens Live for Us at Arlan studio in Austin, Texas. Here's the rest of their interview with Rick Rubin. How did it go from the three of you to what we're experiencing you guys playing as a live band. How did that happen? That happened? I guess post COVID, because we had it kind of all came to a head a bit in like we had been working on it really sporadically, so that Loyalty song kind of came out, and then some labels, people who I had been working I was in another bit and that was also signed to a label, and they started reaching out to us like what's this, Like, you know, do you have more music? Stuff like that? And then we were like, oh no. And then we just kind of got together back at my place and wrote a bunch of stuff, one of which is actually one of those songs we played here, which was that was in twenty nineteen. Then we just started kind of putting it together. I have some friends Ryan Us, some friends Jacobes of friends that like play, so we had this little community of musicians that we would bring in and then it was like COVID. Actually our last session in the desert, we wrote another song called stranger and then we were like, we had one of our songs mastered, this one called in Loving Memory, and he was like, maybe let's put that out now because there's nothing going on whatever, and then we could kind of put it into the ZP. We had some songs at this point. Then we put that song out and then it gained a lot of traction, you know, like Giles Peterson played it and Virgil Ablow played it on his radio show, which was amazing, and we were just like, yeah, it was in the same week. So then all of a sudden we were like, let's get together this vinyl, you know, and we put it together, put it out in December, and I remember just like we put it on bandcamp and just seeing like the band camp notifications on my phone. It was kind of crazy. I was like, whoa, this is nuts. So it started getting picked up, you know, BBC, especially in the UK, they started really supporting it, and you know, it took a bit of time, you know, and there was a lot of talk, a lot of people coming in, you know, labels, managers, different people, and I guess around early twenty twenty one, we got like a DM from our manager now Duncan and duncan Ellis, and we were big fans of Celeste, who he also managed, so in our eyes were like, maybe we could make a cool song with her, you know, something like that. We you know, I like what he's done, you know, and it seems like she's doing cool work. And we were all obviously, you know, trying to figure out how to make money and stuff like that, so it felt like yeah, exactly. And then it was like, all right, it feels like the right time because we had kind of independently we self released that first EP, you know, me and Ryan, like Jake, we invested all our own money into it, you know. We made we did a like a Calvin Klein campaign that had a bunch of our songs in it, and that was a really good marker for us because that was like this really high end job. It was actually very artistic, and we were just trying out these little ideas of new songs on it, and then people were liking it, and it was by the Calvin I'm very different from the tent music that they had, so we'd just like they'd give us tent, but then we'd just give them a whole different song on it. That was like completely different, and then they would just go with it and we were like, that's cool, you know, And so does it start as a jam? Am essentially like, is there a musical jam? There's a music, there's a musical idea, there is there a vocal idea, or you'll hear an instrumental track and start singing just whatever comes. How does it work? It's so usually they've done a musical kind of idea of a song, but including the melody no, no, just us a song that's written. Yeah. Now, sometimes in their music discovery there may there may have been a melody that they may pick up or whatever I see, but we try to keep it as raw as possible, and then when I come then we sometimes there might be a melody idea. Sometimes we'll have a conversation. Sometimes we would have watched like when we did Glory, we watched the Tina Turner doc and then that kind of helps influence it or in the in the music starts, but it's always it's just a starting place. So the music changes, the melody change, and the changes a few times in the process. But it's for me, it's really allowing the song to speak, yes, like allowing it to say yes what it wants to say. Sometimes like Taboo when we were writing it and I wanted to add this, like I just let me just add I just want to add this part where this musical breaking isn't just like you know, the song doesn't doesn't need that, It doesn't need that. Why are we Why are you just gonna shove this in there? So it's really allowing the music, the song, the lyric, the story to have its way. The thing that I love is that we really do write the songs completely together, like that's a real thing. But there's also a thing because of that, we don't allow our egos in the room. Yes, when we're doing that, because like I gotta have my piece or I gotta have mine or we don't have that issue because it's ours and it really gives the song the space to do whatever it wants to do. It's beautiful. It sounds like if you're doing that, even if you were doing that by yourself, there's not really room for ego because do you know what I'm saying, If you want it to be its best version of itself, it's bigger than us, you know, It's it's coming from a different place. It's coming from a different Okay, I'm gonna be a really churchy so we got to think all the HOLI ghost right, Yeah, I'm very churchy, yes, but I believe differently. I think love is for everyone, even if we like I think we're supposed to believe differently like and that's fine, and there's nothing wrong with that. I think there is this other thing in the universe. Maybe you call it the universe. Maybe it's energy, Maybe it's something that everything carries. And I think music carries that same thing. And if you just let it lead the way and let it have its way, it will. But oftentimes we get in the way. Yeah, I mean that's like fay much just a life. You know. It's the thing where people just can't get out there, own't go done with, you know. And it's like but in terms of like how it starts, usually with the music, like the starting process, and usually are of like written the music. He'll like get the structure of us. This is what I mean about what like I've learned from him, and like he with the Gabriel songs, he'll write the music of the verse, the chorus, the bride. There'll be a structured thing yes, that's very clearly like developed and lay it out for little cut and then then he'll give me a call out come in. We'll tweak a little bit what's usually he's written and done it. It's already down the line. What my input in that is very minor compared to what are he does. And then at a point when like we'll be like, all right, this is something that we can then bring the Jacob because you just have to give him a litop. I mean you've heard he like he just needs a leop. And it'll sometimes be like it'll be like we've worked through a bunch of tracks, you know, and we pick through what feels like it's going to serve and it's interesting exactly I imagine sometimes depending on what the vocal does, it happens again where it's like, oh, the vocal wants it to go in this direction. Yeah, we thought it was going to go this way. Change it, you know, Hey, can we try to do this or can we change the key? Or can we But there has to be trust that oh, he's really doing this for the sake of the side. Yes, But there's also a thing. Here's the other thing, and this is where having being securing yourself or like being okay, I had a job, they had their thing. This was literally just for the love of the music. Yes, that's the key though, like doing it for the love of the music. That's why it's good. If it ever turns into a job, it won't be the same. It's funny, ever since we did kind of get into you know, a partnership, just being honest, it started, you know, we were like, you know, we're here, we're ourselves, and I'm like, you know, we we all felt like this is going to be amazing. Yes, and then you know, a lot of other forces, a lot of people come and start trying to tell you how this can be bigger and how this can be better. And then to me and us, it felt like, I'm like, you know, I don't want to like look myself in the mirror and have a song I hate even if I'm like rich as fuck, like, and they might not be right, if that's another part of us, they're wrong. It's just another idea. It's another idea, And chances are what they're telling you is based on what worked for someone else, not what worked for you. So it's it's impossible to know. It's impossible to know. Yeah, and then you're just you know, and then what are you contributing. You're just it's the same music made by the same people for the same audience. So then there's no new ideas. Yeah, if you if you are making your favorite stuff together, that's the best chance you have of anyone else liking it. It's the best chance, better than anything, better than any second guessing that you can do, or any opinions from someone who knows better. If you love it all of if you collectively love it and would be excited to play it for your friends, there is no better test. That's it, absolutely, Because it was like when we were making up in these sporadic times and you know these twill be mine 'll be will be in a laa whatever it was like in the weeks after way it hung out and done something, no matter how raw it was. In the weeks afterwards, I'd be working some other ship and I'd be like, God, I'd just be listening to that drumlobe. I would I'll be going back to that thing and I'd be like feeling that thing of like, oh that that makes me look in the mirr. That's what I'll do well. That's what I want to do, do you know what I mean? It was like and I'd be doing this other stuff that people might think is cool or make money and whatever. We're like, yeah, I'm fucking hit it, you know, I really did. And like that's when I met Ari, like ten years ago. I was I was sick of people telling me my work look great and I just felt nothing. Yeah, Honestly, when I looked at it, I was kind of like I felt like I really didn't fit it look good. And I'm good at what I do when I do, you know, kind of creatively, I'm pretty good at shape and stuff. And it's like this thing where I just didn't feel anything. Man, And like meeting Marie, it was like this weird thing where I was working on stuff. This is before we started. I was like I would leave working with him and the work that happened and the thing I told him, I'd feel like legit, Yeah I would, And then like that would be the same feeling that would then carry on the three of us. Like when we would lave it, I'd be like, damn listening, you know this that's just got something. It's got that thing. And if you think of all of the people who make things trying to get on the radio and don't. Yeh, I make something exactly that's just your taste that you never think would get on the radio, and that gets on the radio. Trust yourself, that's it. That's the test case. Remember that, Remember how it started. Than we needed that. It's funny. It's funny. It's funny that you say that. In my case, it wasn't even trust myself. It was trust them yea, and trust the as like Jacob, this is the best music you've ever done. Yes, fuck it, like literally black black, because I was like, well, no, I need to do this, Jacob, just chill the fuck out. What that's what y'all want to do? All right, that's fine, you want me to do what? Okay? Fine. As a rule, try everything if you ever and I idea that's different, try it also, Yeah, and then we do. That's one thing we do. Rule like that. You never know. You never know. I've tried, but you can. It doesn't always work. It's fine, it's fine, but he is. Trust That process is fun, you know. It's like we love to just even recut, like take everything out here, just vocal and bass or something random and it's like that's exciting to us. That's where like we'll just Jacob will just give us something amazing and then we can nerd. You know. It's like because that's the thing with Bloodline Stranger even Stranger completely reworked and I came back and I cried. I was like, what it's like. But again, it's just you can't try everything if you have a fear of anything, right and trust. Trust is that That's what I was trying to say. It's like the one thing I've learned and the one thing I'll share you right now if I was to give any advice to anybody in my short, very very short, your long music career, what are you talking like? You the fun? Do I think I've been making you? Because you go ago? And I want to be unogize about this right now if I do feel it's impolish as it's just as an artist just to share that trust is the one thing that will be the key to work flaw and you can if you trust teacher of your trust, I'm safe to try something like you're going to nurture that environment. That's true, right, because you're not nurturing that environment for people around you. To feel safe. They've got to trust you to feel safe to try shit and be wrong, nothing wrong with being wrong, and like the thing is is like that is what, that's what kind of we've been building that garden to me, and I will say Ryan's been a very strong part in that for me and Jake. I think he's because you know, I think Jacob and I have a said to kind of be hard on ourselves in certain ways. As most genius is, then Yan's always there to encourage and even stuff that we might not think is something that are just trying, He'll be like, no, keep that that's sick, like really cool, and then you listen to it and it's like that has been invaluable in this experience for you know, anyone, because so cool. I also say this in life in general, we need to create spaces where people are safe and they can cut the bullshit because a lot of us are doing bullshit that's not real musically in life absolutely, and we're making these standards and creating these stories for people and people you're fifty sixty years old and you still don't have a clue of who you really are, what you really want, what you what's really in your heart, what's really you know, And so you've been bullshitting for fifty years. Yeah, now you're sixty five, and now you've realized, Oh, I'm actually don't need all that. I really don't have to do all that. I really don't. But even musically, that's what I think we've created where it's like, we know the truth. You can't bullshit me in here, chick, come on. Really, that's what and that is what my prayer is that the world is able to have that where we can stop bullshitting each other. Beautiful, whatever it is, whatever that is, whatever it is, this is what, This is what brings me peace. This is what I don't want to fucking work a job or whatever it is, whatever it is, just and even if it's even if you have to do something that you're uncomfortable with, yes, at least the truth is known, yes, And it's like knowledge yes, because then you're able to move absolutely beautiful. You never have to apologize to me, You never have to apologize. I go on these ramps and I get lost in space. It's beautiful. Point is it's beautiful? All good. Congratulations on yeah, congratulations on finding each other, and congratulations on making beautiful stuff. Nothing better, all right, Thank you for doing this man, Thank you, Yeah, thanks again to Gabriel's I also want to give a shout out to the folks who made that live session sound as beautiful as it does. The whole band, of course, plus Lisa Fletcher at Oreland Studios in Austin, Texas. Chris Shaw who engineered that session in Beach Noise who mixed the songs. You can hear all of our favorite Gabriel songs on the playlist at broken Record podcast dot com. Be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast, where you can find all of our new episodes. You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is produced with help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel, Ben Holliday, Eric Sandler, Jennifer Sanchez, our editor Sophie Crane. Our executive producer is Mia LaBelle. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to push com Plus. Pushkm plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content an uninterrupted ad free listening for four ninety nine a month. Look for push com Plus on Apple Podcasts, subscriptions, and if you like our show, please remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app Our theme musics by Kenny Beats on Justin Richmond