Chad Smith

00:00:15 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey everyone, Today we have the final interview in our month long series with the Red Hot Chili Peppers and celebration of their new album Unlimited Love, produced by Rick Rubin. And there's only one Chili Pepper left, mister I eat drums for breakfast, Chad Smith. Chad has always been a bit of an outlier in the band. He's only member who isn't from la He's from the Motor City. It was reared more on classic rock than punk like the rest of the band, but Chad's an integral member of the Peppers. His hard hitting style is the foundation of the sound of bands known for and as we'll hear him tell Rick, Chad fell in love with the Chili Peppers the day he auditioned for them, close to thirty five years ago. On today's episode, Chad and Rick talk about the lost demo sessions that Chili Peppers recorded nearly a year before making Blood Sugar, Sex Magic. Chad talks about how Californication started out as what he calls a bad reggae song, and he remembers the time he and Flee got chased nearly naked by cops in Green Bay. This is broken record liner notes for the Digital Age. I'm justin Mitchill. Here's Rick Rubin with Chad Smith. Hi, Rick, what's happening main, Good morning, Good to see you. Nice to see you as a family. Everybody's good. Everything good on your side? Yeah, pretty good. Nice. Beckett just turned thirteen. He's a teenager now, amazing, I know, but he's he's good. He's playing the drums. What's that like? What's it like seeing your kid play the drums? Yeah? You know, he played like a while ago, years ago when he was younger, probably like nine, and then he started to play the piano a little bit, and then he went back to the drums. And he's really he's really embracing. I got a guy that comes every Sunday, pretty good teacher, and he doesn't like it's not like written music, although he can read music. He's really good with numbers and math and stuff, which kind of drumming and that stuff is when you're reading it, there's no melodic notes, but it's cool. He teaches him. He wants to learn songs, so yesterday he learned the whole intro to War Pigs. And I'm just like in the bedroom, I'm here, Donna I'm like, that sounds like war pigs. It wasn't take on me. It wasn't you know jump by what I'm like, that's one of the most epic songs you could ever you could ever learn. Get a big smile on his face. Yeah, And he plays open handed. Rick he plays he doesn't cross over with the high hat. He's right handed, but he just like naturally so the hat he plays the hat on the left and the snare like this, which is great because like I wish I would have learned like that, I suppose, because I mean, when you're right handed, you just you know you'd left is here and you lead with your right except for Ringo who lead leads with his fills with the left, but he crosses over. But your your right hand is wide open to do. You don't have to get out of the way. Does anyone play that way? Yeah? Any drummers we know who who's who's known who plays in that style. I mean, guys do it that are ambidicutous, like Simon Phillips, you know the drummer Simon Phillips. Yeah, he plays open He can do what he can do any He's a freak. He can do anything like that, and he does play his hat real low. I mean, it just makes sense you think about it, like why cross I guess the reason, the reason the crossing must have started, if we think about it, has to do with the pedal. Yeah, exactly, because the the other you're the foot that you want to be on the kick drum wants to be that foot right which which puts the high hat on the left side. Yeah. Well yeah, way back when when it was the low hat you got in New Orleans, when when it was just somebody just put the two symbols together, but just to play with your foot to keep time. And then I don't know who, but somebody smartly, so well let's bring it up so you can hit it with the stick. So yeah, that left foot still stayed over there, and if you're right handed, you just ended up going over here. And then if you're leave on or Charlie, watch you got out of the way. Tut tut tut tu tun kat. But the open thing, I'm like, you're gonna give me some lessons. I didn't realize Levon did that as well. I know Charlie's famous for that. Yeah, well I asked Charlie once about that and I thought he was doing it from the very beginning, but he wasn't. He He told me that he he saw Leven when the band was playing with Dylan when they were they the Hawks back then. Yeah, but they were the Hawks and then when they started playing with Dylan, they became the band. But what but they did a tour with him in England. I think it's the famous when somebody yells out Judas when he came out of an acoustic when he went electric and people were booing and freaking out. And I think Charlie said he saw that and Levin was was doing that, was getting out of the way, and he went, oh, so Charlie got it from Levin. That's an incredible bit of trivia. That's what he told me, But he was kind of fuzzy about it, but he said I saw him do it, and I said, oh, I'll try that, you know, get out of the way. I get it, just to get a bigger, stronger backbeat. But it's such a it's such a sound and such a feel thing. Yeah, and I assume it has to effect the high hat hits as well, but both the the last one before you pull away and the first one when you come back, has to have some impact on those if it's just not all constant. Yeah, yeah, there's a lope to it. And then there's that space obviously that it leaves went not having the hat and the and the snare together that makes this the snare land and sound like it lands in a certain way. I mean, I've done it, but I'm thinking about it, which is not never a good thing for me. You're thinking about it while you're playing. But once once, it's just second nature. I mean, Charlie's he's the king of it. But what was the thing Levan was doing at Woodstock in the later years. It was just him and his family. It was called like it was at the barn there. I did get to go up there and see them play and got to sit in with him, and it was it was incredible is singing. You know, he had the operation on his throat. He was still a little raspy, but he was so sweet and kind and it was I'd never seen him in person, up close or anything, and to see him play and one of a kind, you know, amazing when he played was the groove? It did it sound like Levin like was an hundred percent you close your eyes. That's him. It's amazing. How different is that closing your eyes a personality of different drummers for people who are less tuned into listening specifically to drummers. How obvious is it the difference between drummers. Yeah, in rock and roll, not being a melodic instrument used as support and as rhythm, I think it might be more difficult to hear other than style, but a sound like certainly certain drummers. John Bonham has a specific sound. Phil Collins. When you hear or his drumming, you know it Tim, he has a specific sound. Stuart Copeland's style of drumming. Definitely, you know it's Tim. There's a lot you know, Keith Moon. I think the personality comes out through your instrument. And I think he's a little harder on the drums again because it's not such an a lot of instrument. But I'm more, you know, being a drummer, I'm more in tuned. Like there's guys that you know right off the bat, and then you could hear all those great pop hits from the seventies that hal Blaine played on, and he would morph into whatever scene he was in and whatever music, and he was just playing for the song, and it wasn't necessarily a sound, but there's a thing that he did that was so special that made all those records so special. But I didn't know that was hal Blaine until years later. My brother worked with him and they put out a book and he worked with them, and then all of a sudden was like, oh my god, it like every song that I ever listened to as a kid. Basically how played the drum, and you know, he was a chameleon. So probably the most in rock and roll to me, the most recognizable would be probably John Bonham, you know, because it's just sound and that music and his the way that he played. I never I didn't hear much. I've heard Band of Joy. I'm trying to think of other situations where Bonham had played, not in led Zeppelin. There's not a lot out there. There's the Donovan song that's very clearly John Bonham when you know it and does it sound like him and his job? Absolutely? Did Page produce it? What Page plays? It's Page hurdy gurdy man. No, it must be hurdy gurdy man, because I know he played enough it must be hurdy gurdy man. And they played together pre led Zeppelin right well, I mean the one that I heard it was like a PJ. Proby, Yeah, And I think Zeppelin had formed, hadn't done any recording, and there was a session that John, Paul Jones and Paige had to do for this guy, for his singer. I believe he's a singer. And so there was the first time that they recorded together. And it sounds like Bonham because you know, like his grooves and his musical choices and stuff, but the sound of the drums is not that big ambient thing yet. But how great rick is is it? That here's a kid and I call him a kid. He was a teenage nineteen years old making the first led Zeppelin record and right out of the box, first song, first Good Times, Bad Times, and he's doing the triplets with his feet, the sound of the drums, the whole these was fully realized. I mean, obviously he went on and changed and grew, but like right from the get go, that's rare. That's like Tony Williams with miles, you know, seventeen, Like a fully formed musician at such a young age. Amazed me. But like bottom just came out, like do anything. I listened to your podcast with Robert Plant. Yeah. Interesting, right, we learned so much great. I loved it. He was at mc Yeah, that's a little dance halls. It was amazing. But him saying meeting bottom and bottom is saying I'm the I'm the greatest drummer, and they're like not lacking any confidence at all. But you know, that's just like you have your thing and and and and then and then obviously you have Jimmy Page and being able to capture that and knowing, you know, I've got a thing here, here's this is what I gotta do. And back then, as you know, everybody jammed the MIC's up into the toms and took the heads off and he said no, no, no, no, no the air and and that was his sounding boom. Do we know anything about Bonham's influences only from what I've read. I talked to Jason a little bit too, asked him about it. But a lot of Ohtown, like a lot like funk stuff like that that it makes sense. He loved Modet, I loved James Brown. He said that his dad loved these. There's a drummer, kind of a fusion guy named Alphonse Musants who's a fusion drummer in the seventies, combat billy cobbum type, and he says Dad loved those records, would play them constantly at home. More RMB funk kind of stuff. Part of it, you know, which is interesting to me because people think of led Zeppelin's is a heavy band bottoms just a real loud, hard hitting drummer. But it was the finesse that he had, and that's what people sort of, I think miss when they play those songs, or maybe a Bill Ward in Black Sabbath, the heaviest band, but he was like a jazz drummer playing behind that stuff. He wasn't bashing, yeah no, and both of them were ultra groovy, like yes, ultra vie drummers swinging, swinging away. It was it was never it was never straight for me. It's interesting early listening to I liked heavy music when I was young, but I always preferred swinging heavy music to straight heavy music. So the you know, the Iron Maidens and the Judas Priests of the world never spoke to me in the way that led Zeppelin or Aerosmith or any of the ones that were more or a CDC were as straight as a CDC was. It was always groovy. It never felt straight. As straight as it was, it never felt straight right to me. That's the key of for that kind of music, like that kind of rock and roll, is it has to have that swing to it. And a lot of those English drummers, like the Ian Paces and the and the Mitch Mitchell's and obviously Ginger Bakers, you hear their jazz influence in their playing. And because at their house that's what they were listening to their parents or whatever. That was the music the day before Skiffule and other stuff came along. But then they started listening to the Chuck Berry and the R and B stuff, and that all was like swinging stuff that wasn't straight. That was they just started they straightened it out as much as they could, you know, Earl Palmer's all of a sudden started playing straight ags and oh yeah, oh I got a backbeat too, not just on the shout chorus, I'm gonna do a backbeat through the whole song. And then they just took that with this loud, heavy blues music and like that's the swing behind it, and that I mean that makes you dance, that makes you pop your head and tap your feet and so I listened to a lot of those guys growing up. That was I had an older brother, and that's the music that I listened to. That those bands from the you know, late sixties, early early seventies, the ones we've been talking about, and all those drummers had that swingy thing. So you know, I kind of just lucked out loving that music and trying to emulate those drummers. Was drums. You are first instrument, first thing you ever picked up to play. Yeah, it would be uh ice cream tubs, those you know, the scooped the ice cream moudel made of cardboard and spoons. I had an older brother and older sister and they both She played piano, my brother play guitar, and so I just wanted to hit stuff anything, you know, the usual pots and pans and stuff around the house. But yeah, that was my first drum set. Would be the Baskin Robins put my dad put a bunch of black tape on him where I went through those pretty quick. And then I think there was a store called chris Key's kind of like a Kmart store, and I got then I got a little drum set that came in up, came in a box but paper heads and had a little triangle and a little tin symbol. Went through that pretty quick, and then saved up enough money from I grew up outside of Detroit, so it was mowing lawns and shoveling snow. And got enough money if my parents did, if you get half of the money, we'll put up the other half. And I bought and I got a slinger link kit for one hundred and sixty dollars at eighty dollars of of getting up before school. But then it was like it was oh my, oh my god, gold sparkle slinger La beautiful. Yeah, sold it for a bag of weed in high school. Oh, I was just safe. He still had those sparkles perfect, and I got one at home. Now it's just like it's not the one, but yeah, but that was great. And then it was off to the headphones and putting on records like Chicago. I loved Chicago. Yeah, yeah, early Chicago. The early Chicago's unbelievable. It was amazing, Terry Cat incredible, so that that drummer Danny surfing, and so I played to those records and then anything that my brother had, you know, he would be upset with me because don't touch my records. Do you remember any of the weirder records he had? Yeah, My first that I bought forty five is VIC like when I was like eight years old and nine years old, so I started playing at seven. So eight or nine, I would buy forty fives and God, and I think about now, I was like, I was like some kind of record guy. I would and they would give a little chart. You go buy the record, and they had the charts. And there was this station outside of Detroit and Winsor called c kalew the Motor City, but they weren't in the motor city there across the river. Anyway. I would listen to that station at night going to bed. My mom's like, God, good night. I'm like good night, Mom'm gonna put the radio on that And that seeped into my subconscious I'm sure, but they it was. It was all am you know, hits of the day. But you would hear Sly and the family Stone next to Jackson five likes to Spirit in the Sky by Norman Greenbolt like whatever that seventies Melanie lay Down, stay Down, all that stuff. So there was this song. It was a novelty song called the Groovy grub Worm that came on and it was I want to say, Harlow Wilcox to check it, but a long time ago, and so I and it was just this country funk kind of thing, all instrumental. Then in the middle of the song there was a little drum kind of wipe out break and the guy would go, I'm a grub worm and then don't think. And I thought that was the greatest thing. I would speed it up. I would slew it down in my drobe my family crazy. I wore out Groovy grub Worm. So yeah, that was weird, but I god, you know, I would have I would buy those forty fives and I had a good stack of them. I don't know where they are anymore. And I would go and then they would give a little sheet, like a little small it wasn't even a full piece of paper, and it was the charts to c KLW charts, and I remember war good God ja Edwin Starr and I love that song. I'm just so heavy incredible, and I was. I would I bought the record. I would go back to next week and it would go up to number six and with a star and then it would go up to number four. I was like rooting for war and it got to two and c kl W or whatever. But I was like, Wow, I'm really invested in this. It's really amazing. So it wasn't It wasn't just the love of music went beyond the drumming. It sounds like, oh yeah, I mean early on, for sure, it was like the pop stuff and obviously grown up in Detroit lots of motown, which was very prevalent in eight sixties, that was great, and I, you know, but you just kind of know what you like and I didn't know. I wasn't necessary listening to the drumming for it. I just it felt good to me. I loved it. I just loved the music and it didn't really matter. Later when I started to get into the led Zeppelins and the Sabbaths and the Mitch Mitchells and those guys that that I started when I could had a little more facility on the drums, and I started to really listen to the drumming and all that stuff. But at the beginning, it was just love of music. What was the first band that you joined as a kid. My brother and I had a band called in the We moved to Chicago nineteen seventy and we had a band called Rocking Conspiracy, good name, not Rocking, Rocking you know water Gate, and we were very you know, oh yeah, we were a political, very political political twelve year olds, and we worked up the songs of the day. We had Lane Linder on the farfisa. We had Dave Stender on the custom remember those custom bass amps that looked like those bicycle seats that were padded. Yea, was it a black one, a black one, or a blue sparkle? I think it was a silver sparkle, silver sparkle, which but like he'd bought it from some bar band. It was like yellow sparkle from all the smoke. And my brother had a very out of tune guitar, and we sounded really bad, and we played Fire by Jimmy Hendrix. We played light by Fire by the Doors. We played bad versions of Stairway to Heaven, and then we would do country roads like you know, but we plan and played the hits of the deck. And we were hired by our junior high school to play the junior high school dance class. So we go, We're like really excited, We're gonna play all of our songs. We play our songs pretty bad, and the kids are trying to dance. It's going okay, and in about twenty minutes into it, says, well, we need to do the foxtrot, so you guys have a song in three. We had no songs in three. You're right. We had to voot rock conspiracy at one game. Now we would play in our basement like my parents would have parties and but one public gig, so to speak. Couldn't do anything in three. Done, next out find us a foxtrot band. Do you remember the first song you learned in three? Breaking the Girl? Now, that's a good question. I love playing in three. I wish I wish I would have learned earlier. That's what's one of those I could do, okay, because it's got such a swing to it, you know, no, you know that that's you know. It had to have been a popular song of the day that was in three. Yeah, I'm sure, yeah, before that, like Babies in Black would have been. But that would have been too early, right, And it wasn't really a hit. It was just but still Beatles. Every Beatles song seemed like a heavy Beatle song, right, and then any other bands as you were growing up? And when did you decide to come to LA. Yeah, then I just like through school, high school and and and then I started playing bands. I always played with guys who were older than me, which was always good because that kind of pushed you and maybe they were, you know, better. And but once I got to high school, sports went away and it was more you know, girls, and and you know it was it was struck sex in rock and roll for me. From tenth grade on, I was like, I'm not that good at baseball and you know, but you know I could play this backyard party and with my band Paradise, I was Paradise. Tell me about that one Paradise. We were a little heavy year. We would do cream and maybe some rush songs. And of course growing up in Detroit in the late seventies, Ted Nugent and Robin Chower Hendrix and we were a three piece and the guitar player nick name was Gloves McClintock. He was from Texas and being cold in Detroit, he would always have ski gloves on all the time. He always wore ski gloves in school. He had the comb. Do you remember the guys in school. Rick that had the comb brush comb you kind of went around your thing and you can slick your hair back and then put it in your back pocket of your corduroy Levi's yes, that was gloves McClintock. That was his look. And he was kind of crazy. He was an alcoholic in high school, come out at lunchtime and drink a bunch of vodka. He was crazy, Texas crazy guy. I would be shocked if he's still alive. I hope he is. But he was a really good guitar player. I bet he could rip. And so we played one Battle of the Bands and we actually won. I don't know. I mean maybe the competition wasn't so good, but we were we were okay, Yeah, we were pretty good. But then I had sold my gold Sparkle and I was going through my rush phase. So I wanted to have my Neil Piert set up with the cow bells and all the bells and whistles that some drummers go through. When you can sort of play a bunch of stuff, you want to do it all the time. I'm so glad you got rid of that, kid, Rick, because for our lovely listeners. Rick, when we're doing sessions or whenever recording, I'll do something and and hells did you always Chad? Did you always do that? Well? No, maybe just a crash. That's good enough, Bob Boom say, that's that's for the live, that's for live. You could do that. Yeah, yeah, that seems more like the live version. You don't want to give that over and over on a record. It's true, but as drummers, we want to get in your lake here and there, you think, And yeah, I learned that. But when I was in Paradise, I was I had not I was all but look, oh my god, I could go from all the way around and touch them all oh Emerson Lake and Palmer Emerson Lake and Terrible. Yeah yeah for me, Yeah so I did that. But yeah, then you know, graduate right out of high school, played in a bunch of bands, and Detroit played the all the bars six nights a week, three sets a night. That's an interesting thing we can talk about, is cover bands, because if I don't know that that's something that really exists anymore. But when we were growing up, and I don't know if it was the case in Detroit as much as it was where I grew up in Long Island. But there was a whole circuit of clubs that cover bands would play at, and they would tour around and come around, and then certain bands kind of grew out of that, Like Twisted Sister was a band that started that way and then they became Twisted Sister. I think I believe Aerosmith grew out of that world of being was a cover band yep, but that we don't see that as much anymore. Maybe you probably were, but that's exactly what the scene was like in Detroit. For me, it was there were probably seven or eight clubs in the Tri County area, and you could it was you were a cover band. You could sneak in your originals here and there. Not too many you don't want to clear out the dance floor for too long. Yeah, Yeah, that was it. We played and there was a very vibrant circuit and there were lots of bands that played them. Now, I'm trying to think of any groups at that time that came out of that that graduated to being a getting signed, a national active, but not that I remember. But there were a lot of a lot of bands. We put out on your own records, and you were local rock guys and I had a band called Toby Read and we played. Literally that's where I really got my ten thousand hours, so to speak. I mean, it was and Rick. I loved it. I was eighteen, right out of high school and playing bars. I'm staying out laid girls, Beard did rock. It was like I made it. Yeah, I'm a professional musician. I'm getting paid one hundred and sixty five dollars a week. At eighteen, I was living at home. Yeah, at eighteen in the eighties, it was a lot of money. It was great. Yeah, I was like this. Did I want to be in led Zeppe? Of course, but like this is like, this is what I wanted to do. And it beat having any other job. Oh kidding me. Those stiffs working, they have to get up. I'm sleeping till three. Yeah. Yeah, but I never you never looked back? Did you know? There? Ever? Know? Was there ever a time though? I never got a job? Yeah, it's amazing. I couldn't. Yeah, I understand, I couldn't. I there's nothing else that I'm remotely good at. Yeah, I mean, and I luckily, like we've been talking, I found my passion at seven or eight, and I like I did other things. I did sports and stuff, but I no one was making me go play music or play the drums. I wanted to. I loved it. And that's so lucky, I mean amazing. You know, my kids they like stuff, but they don't have a real focus shit. And that's fine. Everybody will find their path. But I found it early. Man. I'll tell you I lucked out in that way one hundred percent. And I was happy doing it, you know. And then eight years went by, and then the guys in my group were getting a little bit older, and they're married, and they got little houses, and they were still kind of plugging along. Thanks up, things went down, you know, had a record come out and da da da, and and at a certain point, I was like, I probably got to make a move. I gotta go to where the music is. No one's gonna come to the side Street lounge in Lincoln Park and go, oh, you're the drummer firm Guns of Roses or whatever. Yeah, you know, one's gonna happen. So it was either New York or La. I had some friends that had moved to La. La is much warmer. I'd had enough of the cold weather, and you know, Sunset Strip was going off and MTV and like I said, the Guns of Roses is and all that, and I was like, I'm gonna go there see what happens. And what year was at nineteen eighty eight. August of nineteen eighty eight, packed up to Beverly Hill Billies and drove across country with my brother, God bless him, who lived in San Francisco, and I slept on my friend's couch and that was August and I joined the Chili Peppers into Snuber of that year, like six months later. We're going to take a quick break here, but we'll be right back with more from Chad Smith and Rick Rubin. We're back with more of Rick Rubin's conversation with Chad Smith. What's the first time you ever heard of the Chili Peppers? In nineteen eighty five, George did George Clinton did their second record in Detroit, and I was in another band in the early eighties, and the percussionist from that group was Larry for Tangela, who was a percussionist for p Funk. So he played on Freaky STYLI Wow. He played percussion on some of the songs I'm Freaky Stall and I would see Larry from time to time and he and so probably eighty seven we were hanging out and I said, what you want, what you've been doing? I did this session for George. He's crazy kids from California and Da da Da da day. You might like it. And he played me some of it and I was like, oh, this is cool. Yeah, you know, pretty good. And that was it. That was my That was yeah, first, the first that came to my radar. Later, I had some friends that that we were definitely loved at Chili Pepper, my friend Nut Cole who actually kind of got me the gig. And this was still in Detroit or no, you're already, Yeah it was. It was still in Detroit. Yeah, I was still in Detroit towards yet. So probably sometime in eighty eight he went and saw them at a club in Detroit and he told me about it. He loved it, and he was, you know, he was pretty crazy. And I got on stage like six times and was diving at Saint Andrew's you know that kind of stuff. And they had like Anthony had like coffee cups on his like jacket. It was so weird and stuff like that. I was like really okay, but again like not, I didn't have any records anything. Oh the guys with the socks on their dicks, Yeah, I've heard of them. Yeah, okay, great. And when I that's when the call came to do it. I was like, do they have a record deal? And they're like, yeah, I'm a great I'll try out for that. Great. That's all that mattered to me. But he was like, you will love this. They are just you will you will love this. There they just do it all. It's hard, it's great. It's this. It's that they're crazy, you know, Okay, And and that was it. It's it's interesting for a band that has a reputation or at least had a reputation of being so crazy, the level of musicianship is so high compared to anybody else. Yeah, well that you know what. That's that's one of the things that that I was somewhat taken aback when I when I for the first audition. There's this place in Silver like I'm sure it's no longer called Holly Gully, which is a little rehearsal place. And the woman Denise Zoom, Billy Zoom's ex wife, you know, connect the dots here was going out some way. They were friendly with my friend Nut, who had told me about the Chili Peppers in California. Denise knew John for Chante and so she knew the Chili Peppers were looking for a drummer. And so Newt told Denise, I got your guys from Detroit. He eats drums for breakfast. This is what she told Denise, who told John. So I show up to Holily and I'm bringing in my drums, and I got my long hair and my bad dan. You remember the look, yes, and and and this is nineteen eighty eight, and you know, cut off shorts and the other guys at this point, I'm gonna they were very you know, the aesthetic was important. You know, you had to have the right mohawk and haircutt and tattoos, and you know, they didn't really like the sunset strip kind of thing. And I'm coming with my Detroit rock thing. They're like, oh, get this guy out of here. Oh and I'm like sixty three and they're not six three. It'd be like the Mods and the Rockers. You know. It was just like a different yeah, different in group, you know, different right Sharks and the jets. Yeah, yeah, a little bit, but still in under the same umbrella, and so Flee says, is that your breakfast? And I'm like what, So I bring my drums in. We set up and remember John was eighteen at the time, Young John for shot with a big, long black mohawk and a Steve vyge I've been as guitar. And Anthony was there. Everybody was there, and Michael Beinhorn, who had produced Uplift the record before Mother's Milk, was there as well. You know, he was just hanging in the back. So I set up and we started playing and and everything was fast and hard. Everything was popping in fast and super fast. James Brown on speed and I was like, these guys are good. Wow. Yeah. I was like yeah, So I'm get in and like I'm I'm like going for it and then I'm like double timing and they're like whoa and that and that was the first time. Remember he was like, no, all the other drummers we kind of led them. You were kind of like leading us. And I was like, I was just going for it. This is fun. It was fun. And Anthony was running around. We were just jamming and he was laughing his hats off, like I'm like, what's so funny? But he was just Hee's thought it was so ridiculous, like what was happening musically? It was this big explosion and he was just like he was just and then Bine, I was just sitting in the corner. We jam and it was great, and we might have even done higher Ground or something. So because we're trying to do something, I didn't really know any of their songs. I listened to the cassette tape to Long Ago. It was in the car. This is how much I put into it. I probably should have been a little more prepared. I waited until the parking lot and my cassetting of the Abbey Road be and I went, okay, and that's cool, funky crime, Okay, I could do that. They do Fireben Jim Hendrix. I haven't done that with Rock and Conspiracy. And then and then a couple of their songs fight like a Brave. So I went in and I was like, all right, you know, we'll see what happened. If they were this big, you know, famous band, I probably would have been, oh, you know, more nervous or did more homework. But I was kind of going in and so we're jamming and John breaks the string and I've never seen anyone changes string faster in my life. So it was a guitar and I was just like, whoa, he just didn't want to miss out on the jam. Wow. Yeah, we were just it was it was really guys so long ago. It's amazing. But we planned we play a couple of their songs and then I leave. They thank man, you know, we'll call you typical stuff, and bine Horn went to two guys and they were like, what are you thinking. He goes, that's your guy. They're like what the hair or the thing and the what that's your guy? Yea byin horn Boom, who notoriously hard on drummers. He'll replace the drummer out of a band, and sat, I know he's called me, and um he was like telling you if that's the guy and answers, I don't know, no, Fleet was Plea was kind of on board. I think John was on board, and I don't know, you know, so I remember how long it went by a couple of weeks maybe, and they left the messages again. Nineteen eighty eight. On my answering machine at the house, I was staying at uh it's fleeing Ant and even Peppers. Yeah, if you want, we want you in the band, but you have to shave your head. We'll see you on Monday. I'm not shaving my head. These beautiful Detroit locks I've been working out since the eighties. Yeah, so I but you wish you still had them. I wear a week the other day for the video we did for These Other Ways, I was like, I haven't had the bank since eighty four, long ago, and so I'm like, I'm not fucking shaving my head from the Are these guys so I shoved and who don't shave head? I'm like, no, They're like, okay, we respect that. So from the from the first time you played with them, forgetting the stylistic difference, were they different than everyone you've ever played with before. Yes, it was really intense, like as soon as we started playing, and I don't know if it was like they were like, you know, you're fishing and you go, we gotta we gotta one on the line kind of thing. I don't know if it was like because I was bringing it and equaling the energy kind of thing or not, if they'd play like that all the time. I didn't. I had no idea. I'd never played with these guys. I didn't. I don't even think that there was no television thing of them, you know that I knew of. I mean, sure it was a video, but like, no, it was I mean Flee was really why? Wow? Yes, No, I never heard that that was very unique. Never heard that that. I was like, fuck, yeah, this is funning great. I could do this all day. You'd say it was a great experience. Yeah, oh yeah, I was. I wanted to be in the band badly. Yeah. Yeah, it was hard, but it was like groovy and soulful. It wasn't metal was but it was like I could see that, like it had the possibility even back then when everything was we were kind of still going pretty hard. Like they had good musical taste, you know, just from a little bit that we talked and what kind of music do you like and that kind of stuff, And yeah, definitely I was like, this is not Toby red and detroited, this is not this is like something else. Yeah. And even at eighteen, was John fully formed as John No to me, and he would I would say this if he was sitting next to me. I think that that d Hot Chili Peppers was his favorite band, and so at eighteen, I think he was kind of more emulating what he thought a Chili Pepper guitar player should be, maybe as in Allah Hellela, And there was definitely some of that and he and I've heard him say, I know he would say that. So not until Rick we started, I would say, writing for Blood Sugar, and we had toured and we were a band and we were pretty solid by then. And once we started writing for the Blood Sugar stuff, then I heard Then I started to hear what would as we know as John, you know, more melodic, his own voice, and he just maturity, just grew up, you know a little bit, and and figured it out and wanted to do his own thing and become his own, his own musician. So yeah, I think he was. I mean, he had the facility, but he didn't have his voice yet. Makes sense. It makes sense also age wise, like didn't have enough experience for for it to be you never been in a band before, Yeah, never been in a band eighteen years old, joined your favorite band, Yeah, you play like you're in the band, yeah, exactly. Whereas I just kind of, you know, i'd had a lot of experience, and I just kind of did me yeah, and you know, but but I wasn't. I don't think it. And this right around the same time. That's why I think but Sugar is such a special special record is that that was the first time that I felt like, Okay, this, this sounds this more, has more of a personality to it. This sounds like you know, the whole band obviously, but that sounds more like me when I hear myself, But that sounds like me. And that was, you know, the way it was recorded in the songs and everything, and other people playing along as well, But like, okay, that felt like often you come back in the control room and you're like that, I don't know, that doesn't sound anything like what I thought it was gonna be. It happens, but you would walk in and go, shit, that sounds fucking better. Yeah. It's amazing when it happens. Right, When when you can play something and then you play, you hear it back and you're surprised by how good it is. Ah, it's amazing. Nothing better, nothing better, nothing better. Then you're then you're way ahead of the game. Yeah. No, And we've had that experience many many times you know me and you, but like, yeah, that was a magic that was that was a magical time for sure. Well, people often act like what's your favorite chili peppers? Bickon and often because of many things and probably sentimentally thirty years ago, but us really finding our thing, yeah and working with you. There's an interesting story about that album that we'd never talk about, but it's interesting, which is the band was leaving their label and moving to another label, and we were originally planning on recording i think almost a year earlier than we did close to it, but because of the switchin labels, we couldn't record. We weren't allowed yet to record the album, and instead of it being a negative of oh, we're going to get stale waiting a year, we kept writing and we continued and we ended up writing essentially, you know, more than two three albums worth of material that may not have happened had it not been for that, And because of that experience and because it went so well, that's been more the model that the band has used ever since, where we tend to write way more than an album material. Yea, And in some ways, if you record four albums of material and then picking the best of that for your one album. It's going to be that much better. It has to be. It's just the odds of it have to be better. So again, not through any decision of our own. Really, the conditions set up something for us to really overwrite in a way that we might not have and it ended up becoming part of the playbook now forever. That's right. Yeah, we were contractually still em i'd and I mean we wrote, I know for sure we wrote, but the song blood Sugar, Sex Magic was was definitely after so Psycho was not fully formed even till we got into the studio. I remember Anthony still working out I mean musically we had to kind of get it all arranged. That was. I don't even know if that was around or an idea it might have been, but it was, it wouldn't have gotten finished. Yeah, and you were just like keep writing. We're like no, no, we we got we got twelve, We're good, no, no, no, keep keeping you never know, you never know, And lots of times, as we both know, the best shit comes at the end. Yeah, unexpectedly for us. What I've noticed is that you just keep writing until you're written out, whether wherever that is. You know what, when the song stop being good, that's the time to stop. But not before that. If the last song you wrote was your best song, you gotta keep writing because the well's not you know, you're because they won't always be flowing. That's the other part of it. It's like we never know. So when they're flowing, get them all, get them all, because no years later when it's time to do it again, who knows if they're going to be flowing, and they won't be those same songs, right, you know it'll you'll never get those again. So it's the only chance to to to go mining, you know. And I love that, and you can you can think, ah, that's it, I got it. Okay, that's that's all that. I can't do any thing after that. That's that's just that's it. I'm dry. No, I don't think so. Yeah, no, it actually that's probably sparked something else that will make something probably that you didn't think you could do. And I've seen that many times and and that's a that's a beautiful thing. But rick you know that you have to have someone that can, like, you know, point that out and be like no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, keep going and then almost like doing takes, you do three, four and then number five and you're like, hmmm, I think we've hit the wall. Yeah, yeah, it's not getting back. Yeah, let's yeah, let's either take a break, take a break, or come back to it another time. Because it rarely turns around once once it you know, once it goes up and peaks and then starts going the other way, very difficult to recover. Do you find that be the case working with other people as well? Everybody, everybody with everybody, but see the Beatles would do fucking sixty eight. I know they're writing it and arranging it while they're doing it. They're not full takes, but like I read stuff about it and they're like, yeah, we used you know, the basic track was take thirty four or something. Yeah. But they also that was happening also really quickly, because their sessions were so short and the songs had just been written, like the week before the song was written. The band had never heard the songs before they started recording. Only John and Paul knew them. Yeah, which is radical to imagine. It's just it's radical and that music and oh I'm gonna come up with this part Doom doom. Yeah, in the moment, really in the moment. Yeah, fucking amazing. That's why they are the Beatles, and then everybody else, everybody I'm comparing us to that. I just think about that because to me, yeah, I'm the same way, and I know so many other bands. And you just said that it's never happened with you, and it's three or four times, and then if you haven't got you move on. Yeah, there are some bands I will say that keep getting better overtakes. So it might not be three or four for some bands. It might be twelve or fifteen before it turns down where that peak. But when it happens, it's very clear when it happens, very clear. When now, by playing it more, it's diminishing returns. It's not like getting better, it's only getting worse. And as soon as that happens, it only gets frustrating. So it's better to let's play something else. There's another thing that I just thought about that we haven't talked about in a long time and would be interesting to listen to now in retrospect because of what happened with Blood Sugar and that two year period of not being able to from the time we started until we recorded, instead of it being nine months or a year. That extra year. I remember I went into A and M to do a remix of a Queen song and you came in to play drums on it on the remix, and then I remember, so legally we're not allowed to record, but we had this studio for Queen Thankee Sessions or whatever or whatever it was. I don't know what it was called, but I called everyone and just said, hey, can you guys come down here? And we recorded whatever version we were up to in that moment of all of the Blood Sugar songs, probably a year before we recorded the album. And that exists somewhere. Probably where's that it exists somewhere. We could try to find that, but I've never heard it since. I never thought about it until we just have this conversation. I haven't thought about that in a way long time. I mean, I was so jazz, You're like, I think that Queen had signed a Hollywood record, Yes, and they were having people do remixes for to put the record out, And Rick was like, you know, and I think we played on it too at the end end. Yeah, at the end. We jammed out at the end of We Will Rock You. Rick did a a remix of it up front, and then when the guitars come in, we just play and played out and and it was it was It was great. But I remember it was late at night ish. Yeah, and the other guys came in or John came in. Yeah. I don't know if Anthony was there or not. But do we do it like live I called together? I think so. I think we did it like kind of like a tracking session. But we only played the songs once, maybe in some cases twice, but I think mostly once. So and back then we weren't as proficient as now. So I will say it'll be, uh, feel a little rough. It'll be rough, but it'll be fun to listen to Oh my God, because I'm sure some of the parts and the arrangements and stuff were different. Yeah, different, definitely evolved. I've forgotten about that. You're right, trip right, that's the box box set from anthology Blood Sugar Demos. Yeah, Blood Sugar Demos. In a way, that's probably what it is. And you know, I think if we listen back, I don't know if they exist anywhere, but we always had demos of everything during the making of the albums, you know, just the recordings of the of the rehearsals where we would listen to them and then talk about the parts. Let's try changing this, you know, changing the arrangements. So those exist somewhere dats. Remember we always had dats of the dats of all the rehearsals. Yeah, and the rehearsals were the writing sessions essentially, right, Yeah, I mean either at the swing house, but we did so much stuff at the alley, the alley, and we recorded all that, all that we did almost for every record up until I mean stadium, we wrote tons at the alley. Yeah, we would recordings where the dats. Yeah, we've never looked Rick. Let me ask you, what what'd you think about doing? I mean, we've done all of our records with you to tape. How was it working with tape or no big deal? Nobody's deal from good. Yeah, it does matter at all. Other other than we couldn't remember. In the stadium, it was there were tape was hard to find. Remember it was there's three reels in Green Bay. There's it was like trying to get drugs or something. It was like trying to find Yeah, yeah, this one too, this one, but we were on it and we had you know, we had experts searching the globe for tape. But we still went over stuff, which back in the day we never did. Yeah, yeah, never did. I mean there'd be boxes up to the ceiling. But I'm hoping that we I don't know if this is true, but I'm hoping we have a digital version of everything we went over. I hope it would be good if that exists. We should, I would, I would think, I hope. So it's always cool to document stuff you never know, it's fun to listen to someday. How did how did a song get to the version that we ended up using? The evolution even in the studio, because sometimes they changed quite a bit when even when recording, they evolve. I mean, the song Californication is a perfect example of a song evolving. And again one of the rare songs that Anthony had words for before he had heard any music. It was basically like like a poem. He wrote, like a poem like under the Bridge. He so he had this these lyrics and we were trying to come up with music too, and there's and we did a session early on and before Californication came, it was again and like another demo session at Teatro and Oxnarden, this little studio up there, and there's a I'd heard a version of Californication that he did there. It was like reggae, like bad reggae version. Wow, it was not I mean you could hear the melody and but the music and do you remember we worked on it and like, no, it's just not coming together. Anthony wasn't feeling you weren't feeling it, I think. And then finally I think it was towards the end. Was it towards the end of this recording or no? It was definitely him showing up with the simple chords when we were at Ocean Way Yea or East West and that that song and talking about like going and hearing different versions of songs and like learning from I mean that would if we would have gave up on that, I'm glad. It's perseverance of like there's a song in there somewhere. Yeah, there's a good song in there somewhere. We just have to find the right approach. Yeah. Sometimes it's as simple as the approach. Yeah, the wrong approach can sink a great song, right, And up to that point we it was almost like, oh, well we're not gonna that, We're not gonna get that one. But you know, John came in that one day with the chords and all came together and it's like, I think it's our most popular song now something like that. Yeah, crazy almost almost wasn't so persevere kids? Yeah, how would you say the band has changed from the band that you joined to the band today? Talk about the evolution of the band. Wow, that's thirty four years almost now for me? You know, God, we've had mainly I mean mainfully and Anthony since nineteen eighty eight, but different guitar players come, and we've had some great musicians, Dave Navarro and Josh Klinghoffer. But it's interesting, you're just growing up and I would have never thought that our band would still be walking into Holly Gully making that record. I would have never thought we'd still be making music or a band thirty four years later. Not in a million. I thought, ah, you know, five years, six years, couple records if you're lucky, because it was pretty volatile back then. Still, you know, band members leave, is drug, there's this, there's that, Everyone has their ups and downs, you know, but if you have this goal, which I think that we somehow all maybe not as much earlier, but certainly the second time that John came back into our group in nineteen ninety eight, that's the one time that I felt like the Chili Peppers were gonna be over. David gone out, Anthony was was not around that much. I don't think he was doing took grade, and it just it felt like it was falling apart. Lindy, our manager, left. He's like I'd said, I've had enough, I can't deal with this anymore. I think he wanted us to go no, no, don't quit. We're like, fine, you should beg It's okay. And that was the one time that I felt like, Okay, this this feels like this probably this is probably the end. We'll probably hang it up. We didn't have another guitar player. And then John comes back in the group, and that's when I really felt like we all went, oh, wow, this is like something special, this chemistry that we have as a band, and we have another way, we have a second chance at it. That's when I felt like we all kind of just stood up and went, wait a minute, we can do this. Let's not take this for granted. This is something special for whatever reason. Rick, We're put on this planet, all different places and whatever, and we all come together and we make this music that we make and there's no trying to be like this or preconceived anything. Just get together in a room and what do you got and bring your whole thing to it. And I think that evolution of people growing up and changing and lives and children and wives and next wives and whatever, it's all part of it. It's all part of the big movie. But I think that there's a goal, and there is you know, you got to you gotta be flexible, you gotta have know your role in the group. There's dynamic shifts, there's powershifts, there's a lot of things that happen. But we're all doing it for the same good cause, which is the end result of making this special music that only the four of us can make. Yeah, And I'm proud of that, the fact that we've been able to persevere and do that in an authentic way of doing it for the right reasons, doing it from our hearts, doing it because we love it, and we genuinely love to make music together. Yeah, we do, not all the time, but we genuinely do. Because man, when you go play all over the world and you see people's faces light up with joy and dad's next to kids and whatever, in any country, all over the world, it's amazing. And you shouldn't take that for granted. That's a real gift to be able to do that make people happy for a couple hours. That's awesome. So we have that, But we also love still love what we do, maybe more than ever. You know, it's which is wild. It hasn't dissipated at all. I mean, I love playing music more and I did. I got so much more to do and I want to get so much better and and I love playing all the time. And I just did a little tour with Eddie Vetter and we just hadn't played in two and a half years and played little theaters in New York and Chicago, and the people were just so happy to be there and their faces and it was so joyful. It was beautiful, and it's a beautiful thing about music, and I love that connection. We'll be right back after a break with more from Chad Smith and Rick Rubin. We're back with the rest of Rick Ruben's conversation with Chad Smith. Any any particular Chili Pepper gigs you can remember that stand out in your mind, either as particularly great or particularly bad over the years. What comes up? What do you think of what comes up? We played it. We played in Japan and it was a typhoon and we were on stage for that at not too long and the stage fell and Anthony had Remember when Anthony had his motorcycle accident, he had that big cast and the pins and stuff. So he's in a cast and the typhoon and the symbols and the drums are like blowing into I remember that not being like a great time, but that was just like weather stuff that happens, that happens all the time. But yeah, the typhoon I remember playing in in Green Bay. I think it was on the Mother's Milk tour. And we used to, you know, go on stage scantily clad, and certainly at a certain part of the show at the end we would do a song and in Green Bay pubic hair in public not okay, not having it. So the cops chased I remember, they chased Flee. They ended up chasing Flee and I and we ran out of the gig and it was cold, and we just tried to ditch the cops and kept running through fields and we ended up in this guy's house. They'd never caught us, and we ended up playing like video games in this guy's house that we just like knocked on the door and said can you come with us? And we're naked. Incredible. Oh, maybe we'd found something at that point A leaf. Now do you remember those times fondly or like I do I do those? Yes? I do, kid well, and we got away with it, yeah, so to speak or whomever, Oh, no, I do, because it was like an innocent time. You know. It was like didn't matter, we're not hurting anybody, and it was fun. It was like you were having fun. You didn't you didn't like the next day it was like, oh, we can never let that happen again. There was no regret. It was just uh no, not not at that time, No, certainly not. I mean, it was just what we did. It was we were kids and we were having fun. Yeah, and we were open about everything. And as long as you're not hurting anybody or hurting yourself, you know the way we express ourselves on stage or with our music. It's all good. Talk about a little bit about what life on the road is like. From how does it come like hot? From where you guys started to now the difference in how we want to know all these way back when, and it's interesting. It's interesting, I know, I know, like the progress and when things change and how they change. Yeah, it's true. I mean we go from a little you know, before me it was stationed wagons and vans, but they're just playing clubs and yeah, from Mother's Milk. We had first tour bus, which is like a big deal, big deal. Yeah, we had done little little south Wind is like a you know, like a camper. Yeah, it's like a camper, not as not as great. Yeah, this is an actual tour bus with a driver that just takes speed all the time. And had seventeen people on our bus, a twelve person bus. We had the t shirt girl and we had two background singers. It took the back lounge and you know, if there was a place to sleep or crash, it was taken. And then we had we had a crazy bus driver, you know, and that smelled like you know, I mean, it was not a good but we have a bus. This is amazing. This is the coolest. That's my tour bus. Wow. And what were the venues you were playing at that time? Oh, we were playing bigger clubs, some theaters, but I'd say fifteen hundred when we probably started out with Mother's Milk, and you know, we would get we could get lucky and bigger cities and maybe play two nights or play a bigger place. But three thousand and four thousand, Max, we came back here at the end of the tour and the record had done pretty good for us, and you know, hier Ground was on MTV and all that stuff, and we played the Greek Theater and you were at that show, that's right. I don't know if I've talked to you or met you with that show, but yeah, I don't think so. I I remember his Axel Rose came back and hung out with us, and I was like, oh wow, and we took a picture of Axel. But do you remember did you get there and see David Saint Hubbins from Spinal Tap introduce us? I do that. We were like because we were really in the Spinal Tap at that point where oh man, this is the greatest thing ever. He was great, but that was our, That was our That was like a big show for I mean his hometown show, but that we did play the Palladium, but like that's la like but you know, if we would go to you know, Minneapolis something, we're playing like Prince's Club and places like that, which is great. Yeah, yeah, yeah, loved it, loved it. It was so exciting, and our record was doing well, like you know, I remember we're in the top forty the Chili Peppers. Are you fucking getting me? Amazing? So that was a great experience going to Europe incredible for me first time, unbelievable. And then you know, we came back and wrote and made all his records and then everything changed when Bud Sugar came around and the music changed when we got really popular, which which was great. John was not enjoying that aspect of it, and so that touring bit was should have been like really great, but as you know, the four of us on stage, if we're not all we all have to be connecting, and he was not wanting to be there. And this went on and on and on, and he finally left in Japan. I'm going home now. God, we have a show like two hours in Yokohama. I know I have to go home now, but you know, we've been lucky to be able to keep playing at a high level, which is really important to us. We want people to come and leave and go, oh my god, it's the greatest rock and roll band I've ever seen, and we take a lot of pride in that that has never waned now instead of, you know, getting chased by the cops in Green Bay, and we do everything what we can do to ensure that we can perform it at a top level. We're not spring chickens anymore. And you know that's really important in our lifestyles have changed and I stopped drinking and doing drugs twelve years ago, and I want to be able to perform at the best that I can be, And so everything's geared towards that. It's getting good rest and how you eat, exercise. But I still love to go out and just see everybody. They're all coming. This is amazing, They're still coming to see us, and I just want to really do well. I want the band to feel really confident and knowing that they can look back and they like, I could do whatever I want. This guy's this guy's got it, He's got us. It's great. Yeah, that's really important to me. And then that energy just goes out to the crowd. And so that's the most important thing I saw. I saw from an audience perspective. The most dramatic show that I saw was the Hyde Park series. It was five shows. I think it was eighty thousand people every day for five days in a row, and it totaled. It was. I don't know if it's been surpassed since, but it was the biggest concert biggest concerts in the history of the UK at that time. At that time, I have no idea since I think we beat Queen or something. Yeah. No, it was amazing. Yeah, but I just remember the feeling of, you know, eighty thousand people singing along with every word of every song, and every song were ones that we worked on together. It was such a surreal feeling of people really like it. It's a great feeling, isn't it. It is? It is And I'll say, we don't make it, we don't make it for that, but the fact that it happens is radical and so cool. I know, I mean, one hundred percent, that's the thing. People. Oh, you know, do you listen you think about this song or you want to play one like that. It's like, no, we just make songs that we're happy with, make us happy that we like, and then it goes out and hopefully everyone connects with it or doesn't. If they don't, that's okay. But we love it. Yeah, you know, not all of them the same amount, but like we're pretty happy with the records that we make. I am I know that, and you are I know that. So it's like there, it's where you start. And then it's just like gravy when you just go play and all of a sudden, like you get people singing along to your songs. There's nothing but you know, you make a little song in your garage and then you go to Estonia and the whole crowd is singing along. Amazing, it really is. I'm so glad that you got to go to those those shows. You know that. The other the other surreal thing was James Brown was playing with us I remember, which was wild and James we went to a Mojo Awards show prior to the Hyde Park shows and there was we got an award for something and James was probably getting a lifetime a chief A warning had and we're taking pictures afterward as Jimmy Page and all my heroes are standing around Roger Daltrey AND's not James Brown is there and we hadn't played with him yet. And so he's in a blue sharkskin suit and the hair slicked back and shiny teeth of headlights and brights are out. James Brown not a tall man. I'm six three. So I come up to him and I'm kind of nervous. Mister Brown, I'm gonna call him mister Brown. Chat. I'm the drummer with the Chili Peppers. Thank you so much for playing. He's conscious with us, such an honor, thank you, thank you, he says Sam Man, and it was hard to understand him. I have to say. He's say, man, I'm just kind of like kind of trying to listen. And he goes, I got two pieces of advice for you. Don't give me some advice. Great number one, when you come to the gig in his James Brown voice, I could, I can't really do it. But when you get to the gig, always back, always back your car because you never know when you gotta get the fuck out. Good advice. Good advice, like probably going back to the chilling circuit stuff. If there's some weird shit happening in the bar, got you gotta be gotta get out and always take your wallet to the stage. Good good advice, sage advice from mister Brown. But those concerts were amazing. But I remember one of the nights we I look over on the side of the stage my laught and there's Roger and Brian from Queen and Roger with his kids, Ian Anderson from Jethro Toll, Wow, Tony from Sabbath, Jimmy Page. I'm trying to think of if there were other any you know, rock English Royalty over there. And I'm just like, all right, I got a gig to do here. I'm not gonna look over here. I'm gonna keep focused here. He was on John said, poor John. I don't know if peoplelieve, but yeah, I knew that like something was happening, because like it was one of those things like why are we playing all these nights and selling out at this giant thing, and why are all like the gods of rock over here? Something something, something going on? Amazing. Talk about the nature of Flee and Anthony's relationship from what you remember when you join to now it's it's fascinating. One thing that I learned in the conversation with Flee that I never really thought about before is that their relationship was bonded pre music. So they were just friends first and then music came into it. So their connection isn't a connection over music. It's just as people fascinating. Yeah, no, and which I think speaks a lot for their relationship and the longevity of it and the love for each other. Yeah, Anthony loves to tell me he was he added some guy in a headlock in like ninth grade or something, and Flea's like hey, Nanthy's like whoa, And was it? That's how they started hanging out. Yeah, Anthony used to MC for what is this he would bring on the band? I think Flea's band with Jack and a thin Hello was they were all pre Chili peppers, And I think Anthony used to kind of MC the band when I joined. Yeah, of course, and all this is I don't know any really in the history, and John being so young, so he was like Anthony's shadow, you know. Whatever Anthony did or wanted to do or dada da da. I mean they were they were inseparable. They hung so Flee and I and back then we would room together. You know, it wasn't everybody have his own room. It was you split up two guys. And I think that they were having a little you know, at the beginning, there was it was the dynamic. It was a little tough. I think maybe Flee felt like, I don't know, you could speak to this better than me. But I get the feeling that he was probably like, you know, this the new guy, and that's just now he's like with John. And I don't know if he felt like it hurt his feelings or anything, but there was some There's always a little power struggle, and that's completely normal. Yeah, and you have very strong personalities in this band vera everybody very which is great. But you're gonna butt heads and you know, in the old days it would be like fuck you, fuck you and you don't talk to the guy for two days. Now we talk it out, We figure it out. You don't sulk and be grumpy or or or ice somebody. You know, we just we. I think we've grown up. And I've seen that with them too, and they're I mean, they're always going to be best of friends. Yeah, your lives change, your priorities change, you get families, you have this, you have that, you grow up fucking almost sixty years old, for God's sake. But they have a connection like nobody that I've ever seen before that I've been around. And it's not just the music connection. It's part of it. It's a big part of it. It is now, But but it didn't stem from that, and it doesn't feel like that's what drives it. It feels like they're just they would be hanging if they weren't playing music together, they would still be hanging out. Yeah, let's go, sir, let's go to this. So they have a lot of there's very similar in some ways, some ways very different, of course. Yeah, but the core of it is that is that bond and that friendship, you know, and it's beautiful. Yeah. I think of them as wildly different from each other, but also probably more similar than they are to anybody else. Yeah, yeah, because they really they don't suffer squares. Those guys they like freaks and they come from the same place, so they share they share like a worldview that because of the way they came up together in the streets of Hollywood. They just have a sense of the world. That's how they see it, and it's different than everybody else. Yeah, and that shapes that shapes a lot of things. And you know it's great. But they're kind and they're carrying and the good dads and the value part, you know, is important and growing up and seeing the world and doing great things that you can do and flee school and I mean, I'm so proud of him. I think he's amazing and Anthony you know as well, just like you know, I'm proud proud of those guys. I'm proud of our group and what we do and what we stand for, and we put positive energy out in the world. And those guys are you know, they're the face of the band and so it's like it's important and they they're amazing. Tell me a little bit about your experience of John coming back this time and writing them, the writing process for this album and the recording for this album. Just talk about this album a little bit. Yeah, well, you know it. And I think Anthony said, he you know, come on over and he's like, what do you think of John coming back in the band? I was like, what I mean, the first time he came back in the minute, I thought, I really thought it was crazy, but this is ten years now. I really thought that ship had sailed. And I was like what, and he's like, flee be They kind of been hanging out a little bit and I was like, are you on good terms? Everything okay? And he was like, yeah, yep, we're good. I said, okay, So I just wanted to talk to John to see the obvious question, why do you want to come back in the band? So we flee and I went over to his house. And I hadn't seen John in a long time, long time. Once in a while we text each other, but a long time, probably seven years at least. And he said, well, I want to play music again, and I want to play guitar in a band. And the only band I want to be in as a Red Hot Chili Peppers. I go. But when you left, he were like, I didn't want to do all the things that you gotta do. You remember, and all the stuff you gotta do to be in a band, right, it's not just writing the songs and recording. It's a touring and the press and the videos and this and that in a travel and he seemed more self aware to me like he seemed you know, that he like understood what it takes, he knows what it takes, but that he was he was prepared for it, and that he wanted to do it and he really wanted to play. Yeah, and that won me over. I was like, Okay, I mean, you never know with anyone, and you know, look, this is the third time he's been in been in our group. But to go back to what I was saying before, we do have this special thing. Yeah, and I love Josh and he's a great musician, but we do have a special special chemistry with John, and I think that we had more music to make and have more experiences to have. And it was the timing felt right. Do you remember the first time you were in the room playing together. Yeah, it was the first time the whole group together. Or did you jam with John? No, we were all together. We were at the place in Beverly Glen that we were that very briefly. This was during the lockdown or not yet it was a lockdown already happening. Okay. No, it was in mid to late January, Okay, and we just jammed. We didn't play any songs. We just kind of jammed and he's like, I haven't stood up and played guitar in a long time, you know. And it's like dancing with some you know, you used to your dance partner, and then you're like okay, and then oh well, and you kind of figured out for a minute, like clean eye, we've been dancing a long time, John. We just had to kind of re just get acclimate a little bit to like each other's thing. Yeah, and didn't take long though, and he was really interesting to me. He didn't want to play. We didn't start trying to write songs right away. We just jammed and then he wanted to play old songs, like old blues songs. And you know, you know, John has such a vast, you know, vocabulary of music that he loves, and he would just say, hey, it was guys, we want to learn this one and this one, this one, and so we would learn them and play those. Then as a little bit time went by, he wanted to just play because we thought we were going to have to do some gigs that eventually got canceled, which was great for us, but he wanted to just play old chili pepper song, not the one anyone before him or I joined, like from the first and second and third album. He wanted to play Green Heaven and Get Up and Jump and you know, Mommy Wears Daddy, And he didn't want to play anything that he had played on or we had played on and and you know, that first couple of days, I was like, Okay, we'll learn Love Trilogy. Okay, we haven't played it in like twenty five years, but okay, were those things that you guys had played on tour when you first joined the band or not so much? Maybe maybe when I first joined. We yeah, we Mother's Milk. We had to play a lot of the older songs, but no, but yeah, but there were some that were like just random and what and what My conclusion wasn't I could speak for better, but I feel like he was trying to reconnect with the reason why he fell in love with the Red Hot Chili Peppers. That's just my take of it. And so then and then we started the usual process, jam who's got an idea? I had this baseline, I had this thing from home, Da da da da da, And we just started writing and Pandemic Kid of course, which was bummer for everybody in the world. But we could just be in this place, the four of us, we got to write and do our thing for We were at that point like, who knows how long just go with no interruption, nothing, and that what a you know, We're so fortunate to have that experience and have that outlet in such dark, weird times. So that was great, and so we just kept writing and until we saw you and you came down to the village that one day, but that was until like September or something, I think, right, So that was yeah, eight months, nine months or something like that. Yeah, it was great here just for walking around just like with a big smile on your face. You look so happy. You're like, oh my god, these guys are back together. I can't believe this. That's to feel like I got seeing you just kind of walk around the room while we were just playing our songs. We hadn't played them for anybody, yeah, you know, and then you know they weren't all done or everybody. Yeah, what do you think of this? When you think of that, and you're just like, right, great, sounds great. It wasn't even about the material yet, it was more it was just the feeling of you guys playing together. Sounded magical. You know, it wasn't where there are these songs good enough yet, It wasn't that at all. It was just the feeling of like hearing the interaction of the playing and the basslines and the chord structures, and it just like wow, it's such a familiar feeling. It was like all new material, but a familiar flavor coming from people I love. So it was very exciting to feel. I remember crying, you know, it made me cry. Ah, that was awesome. Yeah, I mean you felt like this sounds like these four guys. Yeah. Were you apprehensive? Did you were like, oh, what if I go? Yeah? No, no, no, I was excited to hear. But but I again have no idea what I'm gonna walk into, right. I have a funny story to tell the from the first time that John quite. I can't remember how long that window was where he wasn't in the band, but sometime during that time, towards the end of it, I went to I think it was Lochma. It was a museum had a film festival of Louis Bunol movies, and I remember I took a Bunol class when I went to school. I loved Bunol and I went to the Bunol movie and the movie ended and I walked out and someone came over to me, and it was this kind of plump guy wearing a sport jacket, like something that like substitute teachers used to wear. It was like a woven sport jacket. Is that at the substitute teacher's clothing store that you go to that you buy that. I don't know. I just the only people I've ever seen where this type of jacket was like a substitute teacher in class. And he looked at me. It's like it's John and it's like, what do you mean, John Who? I'm looking right in his face, like John Who. It's like it was John Fashanti. He was unrecognizable. Wow, unrecognizable. I remember that. And I was so happy to see him, just because I loved him, and the time i'd seen him before that, it seemed like I might never see him again, because before that, he was, you know, probably weighed you know, eighty pounds and was in a room covered in blood and vomit. So I didn't seem like this was different. Yeah, but it was shocking to see him look so different, and I was so happy to see him, and he seemed great, like he was just in a great mood, but really upbeat. And I was so happy to see him upbeat. The fact that he was coming out to see a movie was a good sign, Like everything about it was great. I don't remember how how long after that he ended up rejoining that first time. Yeah, I don't know anybody like him. He's a unique individual. Yeah, best musician I've ever played with. I mean I played with some good ones. I mean the most unique for sure, and especially on his instrument. I mean, he's amazing, and you know, and he just goes for whatever it is. He focuses on that laser focus and you know what, it's music, his drugs or is this or that? Or painting and no, no, no, And you know that's just who he is. And right now he's as you know, he's just he's dedicated. Man. He's into everything, into it all aspects of of the music and the band and the thing. And and it makes you up your game, you know, being around people like they. Yeah, of course, but as you mentioned, I too, I saw him in many different phases and yeah, I didn't I thought for sure that he was not gonna make it and I remember see him at the viper room with like and I came and he was playing becaustic guitar and this he had not many teeth. And I saw him in the back and I walk into the little dressing room in the VIP rooms were a quite a little dark little room, and somebody hits me in the back of hey fucker. And I look around and I was like you. I was like, who's this? Did not recognize them, unrecognizable two feet away. It was a little dark, but from here to here, I'm like, the fuck are you? And then I went oly, shit, his hair was really dark, but one amazing transformation. And you know what's great, Rick, is that another great thing about this is we get to make music together, make a lot of music, a lot of great music, and then we get to go play concerts with him. A lot of people have never seen him play with us before, and then the ones that have probably never thought they would again, and so it'd be really exciting. And of course, not being able to play any concerts for two and a half years almost so this is this is going to be pretty much June rolls around. It's going to be pretty pretty exciting. It was so lucky to participate in this thing. You know, it's like where it's a crazy thing. We get to be part of this thing. Rick, I want your listeners to know. I want your listeners to know that you are. We couldn't. We couldn't do it without you. We really couldn't. We could do it, but it would not be what it is, and you bring it. Thank you. Still, what I'm saying is the fact that all of us get to have this experience of making something and people caring about it is unbelievable that this is the life we get to live. It's unbelievable and how odd it is when, like you said, coming from the garage making things that you like, that's all it has ever been, you know, for me, my dorm room, making things I like. That's all it ever was. Just trying to make something that I liked, that I was excited to play for my friend. That's all, nothing more than that. And you keep it that way. It's always been right, always been that. I've always been that, and that's the authentic thing I believe, along with what the music is that connects with people because it's not trying to be something that it isn't other than what is real to me and what I'm trying to do or what we're trying to do as a group, and that's what connects with people. I gotta think that's what is because it's what we've done the whole time, and it's still connecting. For some odd reason, we're still relevant to people. Little kids come up to me and singing songs off of our record. My kids are singing and singing Black Summer. It's a trip. I know. It's great. Yeah, you know what. Enjoyed this immensely. It's nice to see your face saying I got I got three guys waiting to jam and win't show up, don't make it happen. This was great. Thank you so much for doing this. Of course, send my love to the lads. I will. I just texta Gaya said, I'll be a little lam I'm talking to Rick, no problem, Oh good cool man, have fun. Will Thank you Rick, you too. Bye. Big thanks to Chad Smith for breaking down his history with the Red Hot Chili Peppers and talking about his life before joining the band. You can hear the Chili peppers new album Unlimited Love, along with all of our favorite songs of theirs on a playlist at broken record podcast dot com. Be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash broken record Podcast, where you can find all of our new episodes. You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is produced with helpful Lea Rose, Jason Gambrel, Van Holiday, Eric Sandler, and Jennifer Sanchez, with engineer and help from m chafee and also Shangarlow Studios. Our executive producer is Milabelle. Broken Record is a production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and others, some Pushkin can sit a subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content an uninterrupted ad free listening for four ninety nine a month. Look for Pushkin Plus on Apple podcast subscriptions, and if you like the show, please remember to share, rate, and review us on your podcast app. Ar the Music Expect Kenny Beats, I'm justin Richmond.