Brandi Carlile & Tanya Tucker

00:00:08 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Tanya Tucker was only fourteen in the spring of nineteen seventy two when she released Delta Down. It was a first crack at recording a single, and while she was still in school, the song became a country radio hit, her first of dozens over the years. Even at that young age and despite being a woman, she was lumped in with the crop of country singers known affectionately as outlaws Johnny Cash, Willie Nelson, Chris Christofferson, Waylon Jennings. She took a little break from the music business in the early eighties and then came roaring back in the nineties during another classic period of country music. By her own admission, she was just unmotivated record music over the last couple of decades and just sort of fell off, But that all changed when she met Brandy Carlyle. Brandy, a singer songwriter from outside Seattle with the country flair, has been killing it since twenty eighteen, when her breakout album By the Way I Forgive You was released. She wrote the Wheels of Laredo and several others on Tanya's album While I'm Living and co produced the record with Whalen's son, Shooter Jennings. It's Tanya's first album of new material in sixteen years, and she almost didn't make it after bailing a few times on the recording sessions, thinking the songs just weren't good enough. Though eventually she released and made what others in her now considered to be her comeback record, and as you'll hear, our own Rick Rubin had something to do with it. This is broken record liner notes for the digital age. I'm justin Richmond. Just a quick note here. You can listen to all of the music mentioned in this episode on our playlist, which you can find a link to in the show notes. For licensing reasons, each time a song is referenced in this episode, you'll hear this sound effect all right. Enjoy the episode. Rick sat with Brandy and Tanye at Shangrilo on Malibu to talk about the album and what it means after so much time away to make vibrant music again at sixty Hello missus Ribbon, How were you to see you? I never have never have no. I sent my my nephew out the parking lot to give him a message. I remember, I'm scared to go talk to you. I didn't know that you I didn't know you were there. Yeah, well I lived up Ontador, but he didn't say that you were there. Oh he didn't know. She loves Yeah, that's recruitment. Go get my phone number. I like your makeup today. My makeup hardly have any own, girl. Maybe that's why I like it. Did my brandy look today? I like it? I like it. I like it. I was busting as trying to get here. It was a great day, though, beautiful day for convertible. You're top down today? Yeah, isn't that nice? Yeah? Boy, it really is a lot of traffic though where you come from. Uh, we came from Oklahoma City. We did a show there on the thirteenth. And then he pointed, pointed to bus this way. Are you Are you on tourn most of the time? Yeah, lifetime beautiful. It don't stop. And they're both on their cycles some bulldogs and I just talked him by the way, and he wants me to mention to you so I can have this done. Felice. Did I mention to you about Felicia? Felicia and Boodlow Bryant about they had five They wrote five thousand songs, but only sixteen hundred have been cut like Rocky tub you very famous stuo and writing, and he is getting all the I guess he's been the same thing like with Cawboy Cowboy Jack getting all the catalog. And they really his family, Their family wants you, of course, I said, people, everyone wants that you just cut one of their songs. And I said, well, I'll tell her. I'll tell her. And they want me to cut one of their songs and pick one that maybe hadn't been recorded yet. So I said, well, I'll tell her and then you I could give her the details later. Well you know by now, but sure you tell Brandy that there's no road. I won't follow you down, I said, I swear. I mean, I I'm sure they've got some great songs. You know. I don't know if I can wear that or not. I'm hot, was tripping it off. Yeah, it was so cool, Rick. When we came in here, I've never been here before, yea. And we recorded Christopherson in here a beautiful song of Dennis's. He's a great writer. And we call a song called on My Way to Heaven and so we recorded it here. Everybody here, Uh was so nice. Really, really, it's a good crew it's a nice place to come. Really really got and they were so sweet. It was just really really monumental for me to have Chris come in and and he did such a good job. I'm so proud of it. He's one of the real great writers. Like yeah, well, yeah, as good as it gets. Yeah yeah. And then Billy Joe Shaber called me on the way over here. I guess Dennis is trying to help him get his catalog and all that together, so all over the place, and he's had some health trouble. So no, he's always there a quay and he's always right there, and n he's putting all my stuff together, you know, old videos and things that home movies and things that just are It's really precious to me. But it couldn't get anybody to when you when you start looking for stuff like that, Yeah, where is it? You know? Oh, where's it? My? Wherehouse is it? Who's got it? What was your first experience of going on the road. My first experience of going on the road. I guess probably that would have to be uh, you know, I I was still going to school. I had like three number one records out, still going to school, trying to trying to stay in school and how old are you at the time. I was fifteen, okay, uh and fort Is turned fifteen, didn't have my own band yet, and uh, I had Belt of course I had Delta don Jamestown Blood Red, and I think it might have been would You Lay with Me in a Field of Stone? But David Allan co song it went number one, you know. So we got we were living in right outside of Las Vegas, and we got a Texas tour with Johnny Rodriguez. Johnny Rodriguez had out passing by of course, like Delta down. So he was He's like twenty and I was fourteen. And we had two brown Lincoln Continentals and he had one and I had the other. And I think we probably played every juice joint in Texas, you know, with the with the chicken wire and all, you know, and uh, you know he was at that time, he was like Elvis. I mean, the girls would just go crazy over him, and then I'd get up there, and then you know, the guys were afraid to you know, holler for me. The girl. Their girlfriends get mad. You know. I always used to be so mad about that. God, dang it. Why don't they do me like that? You know. Now I get up there and they're like, you know, it's quiet. And we had this band called the Cowtowners working for both of us, who you know, was not what I would think the greatest band in the world. But we did it, we did, but we did. I bet three months, three or four months, and then we were last show was in Lubbock, Texas, and and we had to go back to San Antono, which is where our hub was. And my mother, my my dad, me and this little kid my dad was managing, decided instead of flying back, my dad thought we'd saved some money and drive back to San antone, one hundred and sixty miles with this fan that followed me everywhere. He had a FOURD LTD. And here we go. And in Brady, Texas, we had a head on collision, and you know, a little bit small hospital. Seven minutes after we had the head on collision, a bunch of young cowboys, like seventeen eighteen, about seven of them got in a wreck. So that hospital was one little doctor there. And my mother was the worst. She really got the bunt, the brunt of all of it, and broke both of my dad's arms. I had a concussion and uh so we you know, they kept my mother for about three months in the hospital and they would just turn her, you know, she was in a contraption where What was so wild about it, though, is they did they did u X rays and they did X rays on my mother on her neck on her back was both broken. And then we get to San Antone and they rushed to sin and they they did the of course, all the way there, Jeff Allen, the little kid that my dad was managing, he prayed all the way. I've never heard anybody pray like that in my life. And fast de little, you know, and he was, yeah, be quiet, you know, and he prayed all the way to San Antonio about from my mother, and they took X rays of her, and the doctor came out and tell my dad her neck's not broken, and he goes, the hell it ain't. And he gave him the other uh X rays, put him side by side, and he said, I don't know what to say. He said, it's just a miracle. So I always always I felt very, very connected to Jeff after that, so, you know, he he I felt like it was he was the reason beautiful but that was about It was just a really hard time, you know that first sure, What was it like being in school with other kids and you have hit records on the radio. Well, man, I had a lot of problems. I mean, I had just moved to My dad pulled up at him a trailer it's called trailer estates had for sales sign out in front of it, and my dad says, we'll be right back. He said, your mother waiting a car. So about ten minutes later he and he waved us in. We walked in and that there was a lady in there that on the trailer. He said, sing this lady's song, and I just read back and did h you're cheating heart, you know. And when I got done singing Swilight Crazy People, she she said, I'm going to Missouri. I'll see y'all later, and she left. So we moved in to this trailer amazing. And I don't know what my dad said to her, but I guess she put two and four together and looked pretty good. And so we lived there and I was going to school and my dad was working, my mother was working it safeway, and I was looking for change in the sofa every morning. I don't remember it being hard for me, but it was. He went to school. Oh yeah. Finally my dad started letting me drop the car and I drive my car to too. I was in high school. I was first first year of high school. My freshman year. When I was riding the bus, I'd get off the bus and they'd be girls, you know, dell to see what's that poo? I smell on. You couldn't be you need a bathroom shower two, you know, and they were just they'd make fun of me. So my dad had he started teaching me how to fight and how to box. You know, he said, them girls, he said, they can't take it on the nose. He said, you get it one time on the nose or out. You know, them boys he said it can take it. But the girls one time boom gone. And he said just give him one of them, you know, from bring one from the floor. So I would be in boxing lessons from my dad at night. And then there was one time when I looked and I looked and I found those those yellow boxes. You know. He didn't want me to see that, those yellow boxes, I guess, or food stamps or whatever. Okay, you know, yeah, but I found him, and my mother said, don't you tell your dad you you found those, because he was very you know, proud man. And you know when we went out of the road, it was we learned together. You know, you're not getting paid for for those the music, like you you had songs on the radio, Well we did if you were on food stamps. Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, we didn't. We didn't really know what the next move was. My dad was shooting from the hip, you know, he didn't know. But everything we did do was because of him, and uh uh kind of learned together. And I remember one time we had that old station away. It was going somewhere. He's trying to get me to meet with somebody. You know, this was before I got started or before I had the record, first record, and uh he pulled into a gas station and said, listen, son, He said, I got a brand new jack. Now back in my car. He said, if you'll feel my tank full of gas, you have that jack, and that guy just hell hell sure, because he would He was trying to get me somewhere you know that would hopefully somebody would do something for me. And the guy, of course kind of it was a it was a bum bumm deal. But at least we tried. He tried, and then that's that's where my dad was. But I didn't. I didn't. We didn't I have. He finally got me my first second man, actually second manager was John Kelly and in Las Vegas, and he ended up having to buy him out because he knew he wouldn't take me where I needed to go. And I toured with his wife for a while, g d Lynn and I was playing the lounges, you know, three shows a night, the Flamingo Hotel at fourteen, you know, so it's pretty wild. I want you think about it much. Does start talking about you know, well you tell Rick about how you're how your dad used to sleep. Yeah, well, me and my dad would tour a lot. Yeah, missed, me and him when he had a house ban. So he'd be driving trying to get to the next gig, and I just slide over. He'd be like, baby, I need a nap. Yeah, he's I got I gotta sleep, and he and uh, he'd slide over and I would drive for a lot and he wake up a couple of hours later and go, oh my god. You know. And I was fourteen, fourteen and It was one time I was sitting on the back of the toilet and the girls locker room and we was playing somewhere up north in Wisconsin. The place was packed a little, uh you know, high school gym, and I'm sitting on the back of the toilet with my feet on the toilet seat in the girl's locker room when you in a stall. So my dad, would you know, just claim he's pacing. I'm going I can't talk. I can't even sing. I can't talk. What are you gonna do now? I had learnet is so bad and he I watched it. He can come in and I see him go buy pacing and he find it. He's stopped and said, I got it, I got it, I got it. He goes that contract said one hour show. Didn't say a damn thing about singing. He said you just get up there, and he said, you tell them people that you can't sing tonight. But you got your man is gonna play all your songs, which wasn't my band, and you're gonna sign autographs and shake everybody's hands, and let's get our money going down the road. And I think it was like six hundred bucks. And nobody left he said. They didn't come to see it to hear you. They can't hear you on the radio and hear you get home on a record player, he said, they come to see you. And if you look at him once, he said, and he also says something I remember, pick out the ugliest boy on the front road, he said, because them boys don't get no attention, he said, And they'll buy records till the day you die. But they're pretty boys. They get all the attention all the time. And so I learned a lot from him. I showed up talk about him. I showed up. We showed it one time and the outside bleachers were full. And in those days, country promoters were just the worst there, really the worst. Oh yeah, yeah, well not much has changed. But I got there and they didn't. The promoter didn't have any speakers, no speakers. So I said, my dadd okay, now what are we gonna do? Ya mister brilliant you know, he said, Hey, just sing real loud, And that's what I did. I did the whole show with no speakers, and I was so hoarse from how many people were there, I'd say, probably wow, it was a big It was on one of them race tracks, you know, Oh my gosh, yeah, outdoors, outdoors. Yeah. My dad was a he was a warrior. Very uh. I've never met anybody like him. Yeah. You know, everybody always talks about their mom and dad, and I got the best and you know, I had the best parents for me. Yeah, in the whole world. And I'm so glad that I was blessed with both of them. Beautiful, you know. And they were married sixty seven years. When my dad passed an oh six on Thanksgiving morning, he got his wings and so that was a man. You know, it was a real tough time for me after that. I was living out here actually Malibu and kind of lost my mojo after that. And then my mother passed in twenty twelve, and that was like what am I doing this for? You know? I lost the people that really I just felt like there was less love in the future than they had been in the past. Yes, and I didn't want to accept that. But then I thought, I think, well, I got my kids, and you know, that's that's a future that's going to be there, that they're always gonna love me. And but I felt like I'd lost the ones that were gonna love me the most, and that was in the past, and the future wasn't wasn't bright enough. And then here comes Brandy, Well, I love you. I love you with all my damn art. And that's the great thing about it is I know she's telling me the truth. How did you guys meet? I we met on face time. I met Tanye before she met me because I started singing tan years music as an eight year old on stage at the Northwest Grand Ole Opry outside of Seattle, where I'm from. Northerners feel, I think more passionate about country music than Southerners do sometimes because we don't have proximity on our side, so we defensively say, you know, country isn't southern, it's country and western. Yeah, and uh so I loved country music, but I had to a sense of gender dysphoria, and I didn't understand what my place was as a singer because I wanted to sound tough and I heard Delta Don and I was like, that woman sounds tough and they're like, well, that's not a woman. That's a little little girl. And she's thirteen, you know, And I was eight, and I was like, well, hell, like this is this is me? This is what I want to do. I want to sound just like that, like that girl. And then I started doing San Antonio Stroll and What's your Mama's Name? And Ride Up through Trouble and ride up through strong Enough to Bend and all the way to two Sparrows and a Hurricane. I became such a Tanya Tucker fanatic as a child. So I've been in love with ten years music and didn't see any difference between Tanya and Cash, or Tanya and Dolly, or Tanya and Loretta, because she's such a part of that landscape, even though she was so much younger than all of them. She was right there alongside him at the opry and and so it just passed, you know, as I kind of dove into britpop and started to kind of have these crushes on flamboyant gay British men. But it all came back to me when I kind of found my roots again, and I wondered, like, where the Hell's Tanya Tucker, you know? And I was on, Yeah, where the Hell's Danny Zucker? And Shooter Jennings says to me when we were making the album, he goes, I think I just heard some Tanya Tucker in your voice and I was like, oh, yeah, you did, you really did. And I was like, God, why why isn't Tany Zucker making any music anymore? She not well? Like what's going on? He's like, actually, she's really well and she can sing her ass off and I'm gonna make a record with her. You want to write some songs. And I was like, please, please introduce me to Tanny Tucker. And he did. He introduced me to Tanya. He got me involved in the album, and now Tanya has become one of my best friends and she's my hero and mentor. Oh it's totally so it's like to be almost like a yeah, it's almost like it was written. Yeah, we're just living it out. But I was playing Vegas actually, and the Brandy's nominations came out. Of course, Brandy was up for six and I was so sick in Vegas and I didn't think I was I thought, this is really where I'm gonna die. The Golden Nugget and oh, I mean I just knew there was going to be a bit dead. And they finally got in the hotel room and I was having an IV trying to you know, buy him an IV and get better, and the FaceTime call came in and it was Brandy. So I'm slum laying there like and just letting her talk. And that's kind of how we first first met. But I mean as far as you know, looking at each other. But the real first time I met her was the day we walked into the studio, the first day we worked, and I had never really heard of her. I was out of the loop. My kids did my kids, mom, you know Brandy Carl, Oh my god, like al king, you know, she wanted to do something with me, and I didn't know. I wasn't aware, and my kids were like, oh my god, I can't believe. So they really were informed me a little bit a lot actually about what's going on, and they were very aware of Brandy and I, but I had never and so I had never really heard her sing any of her her songs or the joke and what was the other one you did? Did you get a joke on the Grammys? Yeah? And the story it was close two But I saw on the Grammys and that's after we that's the first time you ever saying even though we had made a record, we'd been in the studio for three weeks, and I happened to watch the Grammys and and I saw her and I thought, Wow, this girl's blowing me away. And then the other day we were in New York City. She was playing Philly and Lucas was playing or. No, you were in New Jersey something like that. Lucas was close. Yeah, And of course we'd just played Farmmaide and or we getting ready to play Farmmaide. Yeah, and uh so I took the train to Philly from me. Yeah, and I've never seen her, and it was Lucas and Luke. Lucas came over and joined us, and but I, you know, she said something. Of course, I went to Lucas's bust and after that, I was going, like god, and they said, Brandy's gonna want you to sing, and I went, oh, no, old, nold, No, how long is this last? Lucas, how long he was gonna last? He's laugh for a long time. But why yeah, And I'm like, that's what happened. I'm going I can't talk. I don't know how these guys sing when they do that stuff. So we went over and I get this bright idea, you know, to come from the audience which she introduced me. Yeah, so I forgot to tell her. I forgot to tell anybody because she was on the board of it. Yeah. So I thought it'd be so cool to come from the audience when she So I'm what kind of the back And because I don't like to be in the audience, I never never have liked it. So, uh, I see I coming on stage and whispered something to Brandy's here and we can't find her. We can't find her anywhere. And I was surprised. I was not surprised. I was like, well, if she's meant to be up here, she's gonna get up here. Yeah. And so here comes Tandy Zucker walking down the middle of it. I solve the problem, and I went, oh shit. So I hustled down to the front row and I looked and there was one seat in the very middle. Yeah, And so I went. I grat I went and I sat down, And of course it kind of backfired because all her fans on the front row recognize me, and then they didn't. You know, the twins and her are singing this song and and I was really wanting to get into it, and they were I gotta tell you this story. I'm I want to watch, you know, just give me a little time, and they were taking pictures and shit, and I, oh, I'm sorry, Brandy, I just kind of backfired on me. But then she introduced me and I crawled up on the stage. And but the thing is, I just heard her sing at Joni Mitchell's song The Case of You. I've never heard the song when she I videoed it and and I watch it from time to time because I don't watch it a lot because it's very intimidating to me. And I watched her sing that song and I went, oh my god, I've never heard anything like it before in my life, and never in the feeding. Its just everything, the presence, the her vocal ability, of course, and I just she wanted me, you wanted to sing a song when I got up there, and I'm going, like, all I want to do is go home? After after I heard have I heard you saying, Oh, I really want to do is just go home? Well, because there ain't no there is nothing that can be better than that. The good news is it's not a competition. That's kind of like you. She's got a sing like her. Everybody's happening, you know, it's true. And you know, sometimes I sing like you and there is no competition. That was. But it's like when the redd Lynn won Female Vocals of the Year. I was fourteen. First time I was up. It was in nineteen seventy three and she won Lauretta did Yeah for female vocals. I was up. Yeah, I saw I was when she went up on the stage. I was like, yes, you know, because she was my my hero. Yeah, and uh, And there was no And I've often said there's not a jealous bone in my body. I just don't have a that that kind of makeup. It's not my constitution. And you know, though I thought about it, just fleeting land. Yeah, it's kind of weird. There's no cure. Might have been a little when I sort of sing that song just a second maybe, but no, there's no really competition. It's like a we're very I am and I know she is very supportive of each other when there is just nothing there but love. And and you know, I told Brandy, I said, I think God kicked her off a cloud or something. I said, go down there and take care of this someone that fell right in my lap. And and I thank him for that for sure. Because it was almost it's like an enigma. Is that the right word. It's unexplainable. And I choose to call it a god thing. That's just what I that's my higher power. That's what. That's what. That's the name of my higher power is God. And I just think that when you can't understand something or why it happened, or the reason it happened, and what have I done to maybe deserve it have to happen, And I just think that's probably what it was beautiful. Well, it took a lot more than God. Actually, Rick helped make it happen, probably in a way he's not going to bring up on this own. How did I help? Can I say? So? What? Well? You know you well he was always producer. I know, I know he is. And I had heard that and I think I had my manager's call you and then he told him how much he's gonna call it? Scared me? Well, I scared me. But what happened was that the process was worrying to Tanya. It was stressing her out. And we had written these songs and we were sending them to her and she was struggling to hear herself in them. And I think she was also struggling with the possibilities of what how her life could change if she recorded the songs as well, even if she didn't really know it, And she kept canceling the album like her bus was pointed towards la and it was in Austin. Got as far as Austin. Yeah, and the and the final time she canceled it was Christmas Day and I was I was so disheartened because I just love her so much and I knew it was the right thing, and the songs were about her. It was a musical biography. And shoot, her and me were on the when I was pacing in my garage. We were all doing a lot of pacing, and he goes, you know, you know, Rick, why don't you call Rick Rubin and ask him about this, because it couldn't have been easy for him to give Vince Johnny Cash's U nine Inch Nails songs and music that he didn't necessarily understand at that time. But he had a vision about the fact that the young people, that people needed to know where their punk rock country music came from. And this is how you feel about what women need to know and that so many of us need to know that this is a country music matriarch that's still out there was so much to offer and still doing such great things. Why don't you see if you can get Rick on the phone. And it didn't even take me but an hour before you drove to a place you could get cell service and called me and gave me some of the greatest advice about Tanie. So I'm not trying to interview you, but why don't you talk about No, tell me what I said. I remember we spoke, but I have no idea about the specifics of the conversation. I've told you it's written now. The first thing you asked was about my intentions, why I wanted to do it. Yes, And I told you what I just told you that I was feeling like we were at a I don't remember this at all as fascinating. If that would be the first question. Yeah, yeah, because he wanted to make sure that it was for the right reasons before he gave me his extremely valuable advice. That's not a normal first question. Well, he's not normal that far from it. That's very interest. I told you that I felt like we were at a cultural moment when what happened with Cash and you could and maybe should happen again within regard to the way women have impacted country music culture, and while while the one we're discussing is still so vibrant and talented, willing to be out there and and making beautiful art. And you were like, Okay, great, this is the right thing to do. Then basically you told me to persevere. And I told you that that the album kept getting canceled and that there was a lot of apprehension, and you said it was totally normal and to be expected. And you gave me a lot of really good advice around putting all of my focus about whether or not they were the right songs, because I was questioning it too, because Tanya does have a knack for for hearing great songs. You told me to put all of my faith and whether or not the lyrics were right for the moment. Yes, and I did. I re examined them. I pulled a few and dropped him, and I wrote a few and the album was. It came together much more authentically after I talked to you, and it was spiritually really empowering and enlightening thing. It was a total spiritual experience, incredible, you know, it wasn't normal. It wasn't one thing normal about it. You're sprints were all over it. And I and I called Shooter because I'd always wanted you yet, and I sat the band down and we really talked about it. Yeah, I love it what you did. And I couldn't. I couldn't really see the connection, you know so much with the Johnny Cash. I mean, I love that whole thing. I mean, well you did, but I couldn't see me being anywhere in that realm. And she did. Her and Shooter both were discussed it a few times. And of course I've never really compared myself to to anybody, usually female, No females anyway, it's always been two men. Yes, yeah, you do that bitually. Oh, we'll be back with more Tanya Tucker and Brandy Carlisle after the break, we're back with more of Rick's conversation with Tanya Tucker and Brandy Carlyle. I think sometimes it's hardest for us to see ourselves. Oh, you know, to have someone outside who you know loves you, loves you and cares about it. And a stranger, Yeah, who's whose only interest is something that's good for you. It's you said that too. On the phone side, you said that exact thing. Yeah, that's so consistent, you know, because she had to make the decision whether to trust it or not. Yes, And that was really the only wild card because the intentions were there, the music was there. Is she going to decide to trust us that we love her and that we only have her best interest at heart, or is she not? And that was the question that day. Yeah, because I did. I told Brandy, I said, I I probably shot those songs off to my old producer crutch Field. You know a few of my people that I sounding bored people you would hey, And I was really kind of wanting anybody to say, no, these songs aren't strong enough for you. They're not They're not what you need. But nobody did. Wow. Not one person, not one person that I respect their opinion on, said anything and said, you'll just go out and see what. You can't hurt nothing, you know. And that's the other the other part of it is, And I can kind of have as you're saying that I have a vague recollection of something I said, which is, there's no reason not to try it. If you don't like it, you don't put it out. But at least, but at least see what it is before you say you don't like it. Well, you know what. That's what Shooter told me. And I was standing on top of a tree trunk down in our Texas South Trant and he cut the tree and it was about that and I got up on top of it to get sales service. How do you get here? Because it is and Shooter. Shooter said to me that exact thing. Yeah, if you don't like it, it's fine, just he said. He said, let's just point the bus this way. We'll get in a room, you and me and Brandy. Yeah, we'll go over the songs. He said, don't even listen to him anymore. Yeah, just come to La. We'll get in a room and we'll try a few things. And if you don't like it, I adn't point back to I feel go back home, you know. And he said, but I just want you to trust me on this, me and Brandy. I'm asking you to trust us. And he said, you said you'd do anything in the world for me, And I went, oh, you're gonna use that car so early in our life. Okay, okay, okay. So I got back to Austin, I paced a little while longer. She calls him a little whalen. You're awful young to use that. And then the really the thing was was the ninth I had It was we started the studio on the seventh of January. But that's right, the ninth I had some time here with Chris. Yes, so, yeah, so I I think that was a if I'm gonna be uh talking from my gut. I think that was a lot to do with it too. Knowing that I was going to be getting him on this song was really important to me. But it was important too that I did what Shooter asked me to do. God, I love him. Did you ever sing or perform with Chris ever before in the past? Have I sung with him before? Yeah? No, it's odd that you paths never crossed, didn't you something that we've met? But still in terms of performance, seems no, I know, it seemed like it would be a shoe in Uh. No, I hadn't and I hadn't seen him in probably twenty twenty five years. And gorgeous, Yeah he is, And he's just a hunk. He's still can't you can't hardly look him in the ice. I just text him and they're in New Zealand, so are you guys in Malibu? And it was so sweet because the last line I needed five of him to say five words at the end of the song, amen to that brother and sister, just like that. And so I called her Eric and uh, Christopherson when they were driving up north. Yeah, and and he said, just tell him to pull down below that little studio nambulo. And when I said, when you get even from the mic, call me, and I was in Marina del Rey and he said, he said, what do you Christmas listening? What do you want him to do? And he did it exactly one day, you know it perfect day. It was just again like it was already because the reason here, here's the reason why that worked out, because you were hearing him actually say those lines because that's what he would naturally do. So you knew as soon as he told him what to do that he was going to be christ Chris Offerson and do it. Yes, that's what I felt like when we were writing these songs, like I knew exactly how you would sing them. I knew where your voice would crack. I knew, and you decide to have a little rasp and sing like Elvis, I knew everything you'd do before you did it, because we were writing them not just for you, but from you in this weird way. You know. I can't imagine you just just going into a row and going, Okay, let's write an album for a person that we don't even know, I've never even met with. Because it's a person that you love and you look up to. It's almost like it's a it's a it's a fantasy version of you that they're writing for. It's like, it's true, it's a it's an elevated mythological version wow of you. You're so right. Yeah, you're so right. I've learned that in retrospect in a big way, like, well, yeah, maybe she didn't identify with some of these in the beginning because I'm projecting. Yeah, because she's a she's a human being and you're writing for a myth Yeah oh yeah, yeah, a hero superhero. Yeah. Wow. Did you feel that way while you were selecting songs for Johnny Cash? Absolutely, it was. It was to some degree. It didn't matter. It was more that the songs had to fit the myth of Johnny Cash than the real person. Yes, exactly. Wow. So it's a good thing or a bad thing. It's great. No, for the fans, it's great. Yeah, yeah, it's great. It's art. We're making art. Yeah, and maybe it's the only way you could do it. Yeah yeah. Like a Mustang Ridge, it's about first of all, it's there's grains of truth in it because there are all places that she's lived. There's not a single place that's made up. Whether it's Wild Bros Pass or the Hay Street Bridge, they're all real places. But like Mustang Ridge is about a woman who escapes from you know, prison and steals a car and then disappears, and nobody knows whether she killed herself or whether she just made it made it out. But it's Tanya, and she's Tanya in the song and she's breaking out of prison. It's a metaphor. But it's like, of course that's not the real Tan yet she's not really you know, she's not really gonna film on Louise it by herself. But for some reason, like that's just the way I'm do you want you want to play that song now? Sure, Keiley, there's a guitar right there. Oh I don't know how to play it? Actually, not not to physically play at ten plays it Wow, but we can. Yeah, yeah, sure. We wrote the lad right we had learned to play guitar. I learned. Yeah, uh be fun to listen to. So this is what you call a podcast. I didn't know what a podcast was. Oh yeah, they're amazing. Everybody loves him now. It's like the new It's just not just a radio interview. No it's not. It's different. It's not much different, but it's just for the Internet. It's a radio interview people actually listened to. Oh okay, here we go. At the end of all this song, she'd finish it and she'd say something like, hey, I'm gonna add liver from way back. I don't know, I don't know, you know, it's just like stuffs. I guess what was wild too about it too, is this experience in the studio because everything was done there when we went before we left the vocals Sunset sound. Yeah, it was great, great studio. It's awesome. I think I did something with a little Richard there years ago. I'm not sure, but I think so with Don Walt. But it was a lot. It was mostly live. I mean, everything was recorded like me and like me and Billy recorded back in the first songs I ever did with Delta Don all those all those songs that were the first ones with Billy Sheryl we I did live. I mean, if somebody messed up, we had to start over, you know. And I never did get a set of headphones. He wouldn't let me have him. I had some kind of monitor, thin monitor on both sides of my head, which I can't understand how it didn't leak. You just didn't care if it did. But I mean, it was just Some of those records are still my favorite records. And of course I've never had anybody in the vocal booth with me the whole time, either the whole time, every every no, and you know, and a couple of things. I mean I I ripped off from her, Yeah, like and the palm trees are reaching reaching I read that off from you, yeah, thirty years ago. Yeah, that's funny. So we just keep keep the circle going, never going back to Mustang Ridge is a great phrase. It just has a musical sound to it, and and it sounds like, you know, I want to learn more about it. Yeah, It's like it paints a picture but leaves enough mystery that you want to feeling. Yeah, you go like writing good writing. Yes, I gotta credit the twins. Oh ye, So my boys were all these years, they really dove into this with me, and we all fell so deeply in love with Tanya. Well, I asked him. I text him, this is the way after the record? What's a hob nail? What's a jam boozy? And how how do you write songs about someone you don't even know? He goes, well, they him. Both of them said they just drove around their cars listening to my music, and I guess googled me a lot and fell in love. They said, So I mean, I mean, I mean, I wonder why I was doing it at the time. You know, well, I was probably There's a landscape landscape of Tanya Tucker too. There's like a you know this exactly like this projected fantasy of poverty and a track from Texas through Arizona and Las Vegas and this this migration to Nashville that happened in a series of cars and trailers and eventually busses, And yeah, it paints quite the picture. You could. I could make ten albums about ten years life. You know, it's amazing to me when you think when I think about it, And I guess I didn't really think about it until someone brought it up recently and said that, you know how very major this is of you at sixty one, kind of having a research in my career, you know. And they said it was a guy. He said, can you imagine how much hope that's giving so many people that you know think because you're not twenty five, you can't have a hit record or be palatable to the music buyer or the music lover, And I go, wow, you know it kind of true. One of the greatest things about it was that she spent half the time singing, working so hard, harder than anybody my age, anybody I know, working so hard, never once getting irritable or frustrated or upset with herself or anyone else. And then the rest of the time sitting in a control room share just like that man, spreading and telling the most incredible stories about country music and the road and her dad and just I don't know, you just really carry yourself with a lot of dignity. And I was really proud to be in there with you. Well was she so interested? You know? It wasn't like it was an interview, but it was so interested. Now you're you're fascinating words and to listen to. Well, you won't get that from me because I mean, I can't. I can't agree with that because I'm me. But once you once you were in the studio, did it feel better? Oh? It come more comfortable with me? You had anxiety before, thinking this might not be for me, But then when you actually heard the music and you're in the room with the people, did it feel like, oh, this is a good experience. Absolutely. I mean from the moment I walked into the studio. Of course, I had two mics on at all times, you know, because we're documenting in that name, which I think it's the only way to documentary. You have to document can't wait for your fantastic can't wait see it? And I don't know why we haven't done that in the past. It's I thought, film everything everything whose idea was that? That was all that was? Probably it was over there, but I set it up ten hours before the sessions. I called it. The best filmmaker that I know called Kaplan and tin Fish Productions, and I was like, I think something's gonna happen tomorrow. Tanny Tucker's coming to the studio. She might turn around and leave. I don't know what's going to happen, but can you just be there to capture it? Because it might be crazy, it might be amazing. And she's like, I'm supposed to be in the UK, but I'm canceling it. And she showed up with a real film crew, real out of Mike's, real sound crew and everything, and then she never left and she felt a cutt and they love you. We haven't made a documentary that's extended beyond the studio into her first shows. Beautiful's Birthday, we first walking onto it arena stage and over a decade or two and it's it's incredible. Wait to see it when I'm and I'm used to be in Yeah, I had a reality show for a couple of years on TLC Tucker Chucker Bill, but I'm just I'm used to it, so that was not a problem for me. In fact, I most time forgot that they were even there. But it really felt comfortable. I think, and I've always said that I think the best way, my best feeling of all that I could ever. If I had to pick one word that I would that I want to be even over pretty, overwhel and all that stuff. I just want to be comfortable. It's my favorite feeling. And when I'm comfortable, I can do my best. It's when I'm not comfortable that I can't perform my best. And so that was that was laid out. That was that was something and I look back on and I when people are asking me since we've done the record, I look back on that and think, wow, yeah, I remember that. When Sheeeter came out and you came out, we met outside the studio, and then when I walked in, it was like it was a feeling of a comfort that I hadn't felt in a while, beautiful, and it was a really comfortable How has uh, how do you say your relationship to music has changed from the early days to now. I don't know if it's changed or just kind of grown it just kind of did it start for you more as work or more as love in the studio? No period in your in music your relationship to music in life. Wow, that's a good question. I don't know. I'm a little torn on that because, you know, being from a you know, I mean, we were poor, but I didn't really pay much. I mean, it wasn't something you know, you're only poor if you choose to be, you know that kind of that Dolly said in that one line. I love uh, But it was more I think when I if I really want to, if I think about it hard, I think it was something that made my dad happy. Yeah, and he enjoyed when I would sing, And I knew that, and I think that he saw a way out of to get his family out ahead and have a career and a few So it was always based on money, trying to get ahead, trying to get something that I could buy, buy my parents a new house, you know, of living in a trailer house and new car my mother, and you know, it was always money. Was motivated. It was motivating me. I think that's what started it out. But then I think as I've moved on and went through different stages of my musical career and my life, it's developed into more of a love. I mean, I know, one got to you know, pay the bills. It makes sense what you said about when your dad passed, Yes, and then your mom passed, It's like, why am I doing this anymore? Because they're the ones I did it for him. Yeah, it does make that was the whole reason. Can I make an observation? Actually, it's it's very interesting and you're poor and you're talented, because it's like what happens is ambition. Yeah, ambition and love and money get really distorted. You can't you can't untie them, and then you get this thing I like to call poor kid work ethic, where yeah, you love it, but you're willing to work hard, so incredibly hard to prosper and provide for your family whoever that is. That's what if you're the kid, even if you're the kid, because your ambition and your love for music is tied up in the need for means and it's actually kind of okay, yeah, like why shouldn't be Cluse my dad was so involved? I mean yeah, he I mean I always say if it wasn't for my dad and Billy Sheryl, they never would they never ghawd you know they never were. In fact, they I don't think it had more than five words to each other. But they're very different kind of people, very different kind of uh just totally different kind of men, and both of them were very powerful and I couldn't have done it. I can't imagine who've done it about They recognized that they were in proximity to absolutely once in a lifetime voice that's never been replicated and never could be replicated to, which was also you well and you know what. And I think another thing is too that Billy Cheryl listened to me. Yeah, yeah, talk about it, listened everything, respected you. He I don't know how many I was when they come in and Al Gallico, you know remember Al Gallico, he's a well he's a he was a big publisher and he had the publishing. I'm the happiest girl in the whole us say that Donna Fargo first song she came out with and it wasn't out yet. So he had those single and he had had control of it because he was the publisher, and he played it by a big cigar hang out of Hey, hey he's tall you and he said, I get a monster. I guy brought you a monster. So all of Billy's cronies, you know, uh, Narl Wilson, George Richie, all those guys, they're about five or six of them come in there to see his reaction because they felt like, wow, we've we've got the red, we've got the hit and they're looking back onto retrospect. They were. They were playing it for Billy Sheryl to get him to ask you to do it. Yes, okay. So I'm sitting over in the alcove kind of right there, and I remember exactly what I had on, and I got my legs crossed, and they played the song and Billy looks over at me and he says, what do you think about that song? Kid? And I I, you know, I didn't hesitate. I said, I think this song was really a good song, but it's not my song. Yeah, and that's in my exact words. And he said, you heard her boys, and they they're going up because Billy wasn't a little left to center, you know. Uh and uh. They were scratching their heads when they walked out, including now Gallico. They were going like, he's lost it. He is listening to a kid, you know. And so when they all left, he put, you know, I've seen him thread that thing that really real and Megan times and he said, you know, he said, I heard it check on the Tonight Show last night, and I didn't never know who that was. He said, but she sang a song I think he might like. Let me let me play it for you, but he played me a guitar vocal of Alex Harvey singing She's forty one started out, She's forty one didn't start out because and when he got done playing that song, I looked at him and I said, now that is my song, and see if we can find that version seventy two. Let's see it is your song. And we didn't live and many people have done it. But and I never ever had any problems with him about what I wanted to. You know, Columbia Records didn't think enough about me to even have a more than a three pre song deal. They didn't think I'd even get to an album, you know, and uh, looking back on it, but when I did, when we did go back in and cut an album, every everyday he saw any album I did with him, which was four four, if it's available anywhere, or if it was just like a weird fluke thing that he managed to get his hands, Yeah, I he never did. I never. The only time he ever gave me a little problem was when I wanted to cut almost persuaded and hit a song he wrote, and uh, he said, I don't think he should cut that ouselve too adult for you. I don't know. I think no, no, after no, after all the songs, you know, Daddy left them both soaping up the sawdust on the floor. I mean, all the songs were adult. Would you lay with me in a field of stone if my needs were strong? Yeah? You know those were all so it wasn't being too adults. I think that because he wrote it and he didn't want to be you know, I guess I didn't want to. People think he was just doing it because it was his, it was my cho Tell me if this is the right version, I'll tell you instantly. We'll be back with more Tanya Tucker and Brandy Carlisle. After the break, we're back with more of Rick's conversation with Tanya Tucker and Brandy Carlyle. Those are the two Alex Harvey Delta dons. Oh oh, you're talking about Alex Harvey. No, that was just I don't think that's ever been out. Was just a guitar vocal demo. But the chick was a Bette Midler and she had sung Delta don I see, but that wasn't the version you heard, No, because she was not That was not the version. No, No, she did it before pett Miller did it before you. Yes, that's what he said. He said, there's a chick you on the Tonight Show, Tonight Show last night. So it wasn't Alex Harvey and but he played when he played her Alex and I didn't find out till years later that it was Bette Midler. Wow, that actually did the song. So why does history remember that as so? And Helen Ready cut it a year and a half. Yeah, but later everybody, everybody really sees that as your song. It is you like your song if you were dealt to do and it even though it had been cut die on Dave Davidson. I think he had a single on it. It had been cut us a few times. I love nothing compares to you. We think of not his Prince's song. Yeah, it's the same. It's like, doesn't matter who who wrote it or who put it out first. It matters who owns this. Yeah yeah, it's like well he uh we you know. We recorded the next morning. It was at ten ten o'clock studio time. Of course I was tired, so because I'd been my daddy, I said, just keep playing it, keep playing it for him, and keep I want to learn it as good as I could then, not before, and and we got to Columbia Records, the studio b and uh it was well. Actually we went into his office, Billy's office, and it was ten o'clock, and I laid down on his couch and I slept till he let me sleep till noon, and he finally come there and got me the sister. The session started at ten. He's like, do you think you're ready to You know, it's something about your career, kid, And I got up and we did it live with the Nashville Edition and the Jordanaires and all the greats pig Robins and some of the greatest musicians Pete Drake, On Steele and Charlotte McCoy and Harmonica. So, in fact, we're going to go back in and recut it, and uh, I'm I'm gathering all the as many of the original players that are still around to go back in and and uh and do a version that's gonna be a lot of fun. It's gonna be And Lou Bradley engineered we played the drums, so he's, uh, oh, well he's gone, he's gone. He in fact, he passed about a month and a half ago, Jerry Kerrigan one of the great great drummers, one of the great drummers. So I think we're gonna get either I think it was Eddie or Paul Eddie Bears or Paul Lym, one of those guys. Cool. But now we're just trying to put that together. And then Brenda Lee, you know, I'm gonna cut that song and she wrote for me and her you hear it, T and other. It's so cute. I mean, it's so precious that Brenda Lee, one of my heroes, would write a song about me and her, Brenda Lee love. I don't care what it would be. I Mary had a little aamb I'd want to cut it, you know. So, but you know, you used to people would ask me, what would you enjoy more. You'd enjoy performing live or you enjoy recording better. And the answer to that was always I enjoy performing more than being in front of an audience. Yeah, being in the studio painting my nails a lot. I flipped a lot of the studio, you know, my one time my producer didn't even show up. Yeah, most of the time when I did T and T. She is incredible life. But it's unbelievable. It used to be alive. But the answer would have to be now being in the studio because I love the creation that create the creation of music and the creativity and the cambaraderie. Uh they let's try this. Yeah, you know, like I said, how many producers does it take to screw in the light bulb? I don't know, what do you think? But I mean I enjoy You know, it's hard to say what you like. I mean, I love both of them. I mean I have to do both of them are very like you said, you can't separate them really, but I really enjoy the process now and I've been working on a couple of projects that I have. I mean, I have two albums that are almost ready to go. If someone said you got a week to finish them, we'd have it done. So I've not been twiddling my thumbs and not doing anything. It's just I couldn't get anybody interested. Yeah, when's your next TWAR date? Do you know? Uh? Well, the next show is, uh tomorrow now, Yeah, tomorrow tomorrow, the next day, two nights. Yeah it's going to be great. Yeah. Yeah, we'll hope, We'll hope. So we were going and try to like an old troupa door. You know that was written by a girl, which is kind of interesting, that George Straight song. Here's an old troupa door. You heard that one? Yeah, of course, and that was written by a girl, which I think is kind of different. But yeah, I really enjoyed that process. Uh. And I thought just about the time I thought I'd done a record, made a record every which way you could make one. Yeah, then long comes Brandy and Shooter and another another way of spiritually another way up there either yeah, yeah, the the all the others were, I don't know, there's no there's no comparison really to the the feeling I had making the record beautiful, the comfort level beautiful, And it sounds like it reminds you of when you first started making records. Everybody's in the room together, yea, to that that time. And you know, I'm not so sure I would have been able to do it if I hadn't had that experience with really Cheryl, Yes, you know, but you know I've always been a live person. It very live. I mean, even with my producer Jerry Jerry Crushfille, who produced thirteen albums in a row on me and the way I found out the way I got him. I talked to my old lawyer and I videoed it. What everything on video because I wanted to ask him. Bill Carter, he was the Rolling Stones lawyer and a secret service and he was my attorney at that time, and I want I asked him. I said, how did I get Crutchfield? Because I had just come off snuff Garrett in a studio and Santa Monica did had two number one records. But I told my dad, I go, I can't work like this. It's like I'm on a damn assembly line and everybody's reading it. There's like he don't even want me there. When I'm for the basic tracks, I'm going like, what if it's in the wrong key, Well, we'll just manipulate the track. Yeah, And I just couldn't. I was just turned sixteen and I couldn't fathom that. You know. Of course hal Blaine was playing the drums, and I love that it's one of the great players. But I didn't like that way of working. And I told my dad, I said, Daddy, I can't I feel like I we cut this album ten minutes, you know, everything's real fast. And al Capps was the arranger who really I think did most of the work on that, on that, on those records, and he was hot hot at that time with all the share records. You know, he's tramp something. And uh, I said, I can't. I just not. I'm not comfortable. I can't. So he he told Snuff, he said, well, I'm sorry, we're gonna to let you go. And of course Snuff, you know, blue a gasket. I at that time, I asked my attorney, I said, He said, well, what we're gonna do? You know? He who's gonna produce? Now? I said, We'll go back to Nashville. Yeah, that's where I feel comfortable there. I don't like this out here. Yeah, everybody's reading, you know. It's just it just didn't feel right. And he said, well, who are you thinking about? I said, whoever produced that song? Please come to Boston. I said, I want that guy, and that was Jered Crutchville. And so when we connected up that we pulled more shots than you think you did. We we oh no, no. Now that when I look back on it, I think, God, dang it, you know, I should have more faith in myself because I really directed a lot of these things and kid as a kid, and why do you put two singles on an album and the rest you just why can't we have a ten singles? Yes, that was my thinking, and accord with the band, and then tour with another one. Yea, why can't we put those together? Yes? So, and don't put a saxophone on my record when I don't have one in the band, you know, or have at least two way you get to one, you know. And so I had all these I think thoughts and wonderer and why do you do this? And why? And several times, I mean I've told crutch Fill I said, man, that mix, I can't do the mix it makes you got to remix it. I went out and he played strong and to prebend the album, the whole album, and I walked out and I cried in the parking lot. I said, oh my god, and my father and my two older children was with me. He goes, what's wrong? It was? It sounded great and I went, no, oh my god, No, he's got to remix it. So my ears are just so uh. I mean, I've got really great ears. Yeah, and you tell me the barn but when you you feel it and you know it yeah, and it's like nothing that there's nothing to argue or discussing about it. It's like you the feeling you don't don't argue with me. I had that argument last night or this morning, you know when you know, I just don't argue. This is what I If you want to work with me, let's do it like I want to do it now. If you want to, if you want to pay all the bills and pay me, I'll do it your way. Yes, but no that you know, I feel like my ears have been a thorn in my side, a blessing and a curse at the same time. Yes, because I have trouble with my in ears. Yes, And I said, I don't understand why they go. What did you want you? What are you missing with sound check? You know when you're sound checking first show and monitor guy, Because I've I've been through them. I've been through them. I've had twenty in I mean, I'm I've fired him before I got off stage sometime because I said, if you're hearing when I'm here, and you let me stand out there hearing this shit, then you gotta go because what happens is what I'm hearing. If it sounds bad. I think that's what they're hearing, and the it's always well, it sounds good out front. I go, why can't I enjoy it too? If they're going to enjoy it, why can't I just hear it like they hear it. You know, my mom for the last five years or so has been the studio engineer I work with when we made Firewatcher's Daughter in Bear Creek, So like he cultivated this monitor mix for me that makes no sense to anyone else about It makes no sense to anyone else, but to me, it's like a limb. I can't do without it. And it's like it's how I hear my voice. And if I don't have that, I eq my monitors with my voice. So I push harder, I round out vows, I hardened hard consonants, and I hurt my voice. Yeah, And I didn't used to think I was picky because I'm a bar singer, but like because this guy wants you to feel like you fill in the studio, like when you're making a record. He's got my monitor mix in a way that's like now it's on this like priceless little thumb. I can never lose it. I swear I've threatened to quit about every show. It's a hard thing. I just want your mind, if you if they're hearing what I'm hearing in my ears, Oh my god. Well I don't, but you know, I guess it's the same principle. So they are saying I have to leave, Is that right? Yeah? In like, oh, well, I feel like I've known Rick forever. I feel like i've you know, like maybe I mean, if Willie's right about this reincarnation deal. I mean I don't. I don't think he is, But if he is, maybe that's the deal. You know, maybe we met some other you know, I would I would be so inspired and amazed if you guys ever worked together and did something just just to I would love to do, you know, I because I feel like I know what Rick would do, and I think it's gonna happen at some point. We'll figure out what that is. Surprised me, Yeah, it would be awesome. Well, it's so funny because I Johnny Cash, you know this story when I well farm It was the first farm Aid and I was on Merle's bus and he was chewing out Mark Rothball. He was really upset with him, and I said oh, I would turn around to leave, and he went stay right there, and I guess he wanted me to hear whatever he had to say to Mark and as I don't know why, but he he gave me this hat and so skip ahead. Well, went left his bus and went on the stage. Uh. And then it was a circle stage, so half of it was getting ready and the other half was doing it. And I think Melancamp was on, and all of a sudden, you know, everywhere you looked it was. It wasn't anybody you didn't know. Everybody was a star, you know. And all of a sudden I heard Dan you and and Marty Haggard, and LIST said, so, I think my Johnny John Johnny Cash was holder than you. And I looked around and there it was. It was like the parting of the Red Sea. The people just kind of like they knew that he was talking to me and the music's going on, but I could hear him very well. So it turned and I thought, wow, I'm just gonna meet him, you know. So I started walking down to him. He started walking do me, and we met in the middle and he goes, I just wanted to say hello and hug your neck. And of course the first thing I said was, well, I said, I've been writing. I've been trying to write this song. I get this. I got this idea for a song. But I said, you're the only hoss that could sing it. So if you don't like it, then I ain't gonna write it, you know. And he said, I thought, well, you know, let's meet up next week. We'll sing a little bit of it to me. And of course it was just an idea, you know, so I had to come up with something. So I was just like, look back, Oh, you didn't have one. I had the idea, and I and and so he goes sing a little and I'm thinking, okay, I'll look back. I went to help me out here, you know, I'm said a little prayer. And so then not only did I I started singing it, but I started for imitating him, which is so funny. I whoa, you got the man in black feeling blue? This is you know, came out my ass because I had nothing else, you know, and you got I just came get over, getting all over you. I sang with what is riding? I standing for what is true? But you got the man in black feeling blue? You know, and that's all I had. I was amazed to come up with that wow tea and he goes, I like that, Well, I'll go see later. By So I go home with Neil Young on his bus. I'm going like, where was my dad? And then what? Then? My dad just prepared me for those things, is what it was. And he knew how to he knew he could trust me. So I'm on Neil Young's bus going home. I get home, they take me home to Nashville. And the next day, I think it was Marty Stewart maybe called me and said cash once that song, I said, Jesus, it's not a song, it's an idea for a song. And so when they were filming the movie stage Coach, I went down and saw Chris and took a path. I think it might have been the last time I saw him. And then they went to Tucson and me and Billy Joe Shaverer were kind of hanging out and writing some songs together, and they were about done a stage coach and I said, you know, well, then more boys are all I'll guarantee you they're all mad at each other right now. You know wait, you know Chris Sink talking to Whalen Wade and spissed off at Willie and and I guarantee you you're gonna they're mad at each other. Just go down there. I got him a plane ticket to Tucson. I sent Billy Joe Shaver down there. I said, and this is just kind of stuff like we're talking about, like things that come out of my mouth. And then they happened. I said, you're gonna get you. Willie's gonna be by the pool. He's gonna be by the pool, and he's just about down to the worm, you know, and he's gonna be drunk on his ass. I said, but you just go and you go to Johnny's. John gash his room. And I figured the best way to get him to cut that song was to get him to finish it, you know, to write it. And I said, he'll cut it if he writes it, if he finished it. So they did. They finished it. They finished the song. But and I asked John Carter the other day if maybe he'd had it recorded it or something, you know, put it, put it down before he passed. But it was exactly the way Billy Joe walked in and went out to the pool and there was Willie just on his butt. Me and Rick, we're just talking about this when you went to the bathroom. So you do these ideas right that wind up being songs for other people or whatever, because you say these things come out of your mouth, are a little bit inspired, like earlier when you said that you felt like when you lost your parents there was more love behind you than there wasn't you, which is a song, yep, but like soon to be soon to be a song. But when we made this album, you were sitting in it just like that in the control room, and you were telling me that you called Loretta up on the phone. He told her that you had one of your ideas, which was bring my flowers now. While I will need your love when I'm gone, don't spend time, tears or money on my old breathless body. If your heart is in them flowers, bring them now, bring them on in the end, And I was awe struck. And of course we had the documentary cures who were recording the whole thing. I recorded it. I was like, send me that to my phone. Ten you went home. I played it for Shooter and Shooters like you got to write that song. And me and she didn't get out of it this time, wanted out, but she had to sit at the piano with me and she had to write that song and it became the title track and really the kind of deep inspiration behind what the album actually is. And the album got named while I'm living. Your ideas are more they're more penitive than you inter then you think that they are, Like, is it true that you wrote the idea? If you're you're the I got some motion front property in Arizona. From my front porch you can see the sea. I got some motion from property in Arizona. If you buy that, I'll throw the golden gate in free how much? So that was your So let's see what was the deal is that Dean Dilon and I were hanging out. We were just like connected at the hip, you know, and he's one of my favorite writers of all time. And then everybody say like, if you believe that, you know, I got some swamp land to say you in Louisiana, And I'm thinking, well, there is swamp land in Louisiana, So what the hell it should be like if if you believe that I got some motion front property in Arizona, you know, And that came out of my mouth and Roy Sporter and Dean Dilan and we're sitting at his house and that just kind of that's a that's what happens song. And nobody knows that Tanya Tucker spit that line out. No, I mean I didn't, but it doesn't. See you do it all damn day. Yeah, I have to keep on taking Roger Miller's place, you know Roger Miller songwriters. You'd see I'm everywhere all around him and if he went somewhere because I said anything, will say something many minutes and that am now. I mean I have friends, I mean Dennis Quaid included that has a pad, Yeah, and they write things down. I do it. I do it all day. And actually Rick's even doing it. Yeah, I wrote down the same line that she wrote. It's funny. You really are right. I got a lot of them. You really are an inspiring person and you don't know it. And that's what makes it so true. No, I have no. I mean, I sometimes I feel so inadequate. And I'm sure that you know everybody must feel that way at some point, but uh, and feel like I mean, you would question when you're around her. It's like, oh my god, I got a lot to learn. But and she's so available and for me and and at any time, and it's been really a wonderful thing. But you know, I always would strive to want to be better, no matter if I'm cooking a chilly rihanno, or if I'm writing a song, or if I'm out riding my horse in a in a competition. You know, I just want to be the best I can be. Like that, what was that one commercial? I mean that says the American Express don't leave home without it. Don't don't leave home without I say, don't stay home with it. Don't stay home with it? You know. I mean, so I've got this commercial mind of I love writing commercials. You know. I'm held by Madelon in a career out of it, didn't he And so there's so many ways and so many things to be done that I've yet to do. And I feel like sometimes I'm running out of time energy, ye know, I'm running out of time. Well it's amazing because I have epstein bar and that's the chronic fatigue. And some days I I don't know how I'm gonna get out of bed, but I do and but then you get up on stage and shake your hips like Elvis. Yeah, and then come off and fall fall the floor. But it's uh, I guess, I don't know. They asked me what I want to be remembered for, and I guess I'm still working on that answer. I'm I guess a good person that was had a good nature and was always ready to help somebody, you know, always always on the front row. Yeah, farted for the cannon. I feel like you're just getting started. I said, this sounds this aulbms a great place to start, like that as well as that's what I tell you once somebody has interviewed me, I said, well, it's a start. Forty six albums later, there are many many starts. Oh and I think that, and they'll say you only you only live once. I said, no, no, no, no, no, no, you live many times, you only die once. There you go, see what I'm saying? Yeah? Are you writing that? My writing so many Rick, it's all day it's all day long. Yeah yeah, yeah, just a walking song. Yeah. But to be inspirational and to inspire people to to write or do whatever whatever it is they do. If I can inspire them to do and be better at what they do. It inspires me to be better. But when you have done it for me and you have to as well, thank you annoyingly but maybe because I haven't really met you, but I've know I feel that that connection for sure, and I've always said it, but just that price was just a little too Thanks to Tanya Tucker and Brandy Carlisle for coming through Shangrilad Tape Broken Record at the Tanya Tucker dot com to check out when it tours coming through your town, and you can check out her new album produced by Brandy Carlyle and Shooter Jennings on our Spotify playlist app, Broken Record podcast dot com and while a're there, sign up for a behind the scenes newsletter. Broken Record is produced with help from Jason Gambrell and Melobelle Or. Theme music is by Kenny Beats. Stay tuned for next week's episode with the Black Keys. I'm justin Richmond. Well, I mean I go, I can talk, you're here, I say, I'll talk too much for me an alcoholic alcoholic. Thanks to Tanya Tucker and Brandy Carlile for coming through Shanglade Tape Broken Record at the Tanya Tucker dot com to check out when a tour is coming through your town, and you can check out a new album produced by Brandy Carlyle and Shooter Jennings on our Spotify playlist at broken record podcast dot com, and while you're there, sign up for a behind the scenes newsletter. Broken Record is produced with help from Jason Gambrell and Melobelle. Or music is by Kenny Beats. Stay tuned for next week's episode with the Black Keys. I'm justin Richmond, h