A Harvard-Trained Psychic on Intuition, Tarot & Predicting the Future

Dustin Grinnell (00:00:00 --> 00:03:29)
I'm Dustin Grinnell, and this is Curiously.

One of my favorite writers is the late Michael Crichton, author of numerous blockbuster sci-fi thrillers like Jurassic Park, Sphere, and Prey. I've always appreciated Crichton's unique ability to blend facts and fiction within highly entertaining stories. Although I've enjoyed nearly all of Crichton's novels, one of my favorite books of his is actually nonfiction—his memoir Travels, in which he wrote about his journey from Harvard Medical school, to writing fiction, and, as the title suggests, his travels all over the world. After the commercial success of his novel The Andromeda Strain, which published in 1969 while he was still in med school, Crichton made the difficult decision not to become a licensed physician and instead moved to California to continue writing paperback thrillers. For me, the most interesting parts of Travels were Crichton's explorations with psychic phenomena.

Over the course of his life, he interacted with teachers, trainers, and various spiritual gurus to experiment with mind reading, hypnosis, tarot cards, spoon bending, past life regression, astral travel, seeing auras, and more. I admired how he seemed to approach each of these new and often strange experiences with the inquiring and skeptical mind of a scientist, but also deep curiosity and humility of an artist. Like Creighton, I've studied and worked in the sciences and view the world through a decidedly rational, scientific perspective. And like him, I also can't help but feel drawn to explore the inexplicable with equal parts open-mindedness and disbelief. It's this attitude that led me to today's guest, Jeanne Mayle, a psychic, author, and teacher who has become a trusted source for people seeking clarity and understanding in their lives.

For many years, Jeanne followed a conventional career path before embarking on a journey of self-discovery and spiritual exploration. She held positions as the Massachusetts Medicaid Director, the Policy Administrator for the City of New York's Office of Management and Budget in Health and Welfare, and a research consultant on national health and welfare programs. She holds master's degrees from the Harvard School of Public Health and the Harvard Graduate School of Education and has an MA in counseling psychology from Framingham State University. A prolific writer, she's also published in national journals, including The Atlantic, and has co-authored two books on health and welfare. Today, Jean helps others navigate the complexities of life through her readings and teaches classes in tarot, intuitive visioning, positive psychology, and mindfulness.

Her work has not only impacted individuals on a personal scale but has also resonated on a broader scale. She's been recognized for her accurate predictions and foresight into global events, earning a reputation as a trusted psychic in the realm of world affairs. Her insights have shed light on various social, environmental, and political issues, serving as a wake-up call for humanity to come together and create positive change. Jeanne Mayo continues to be an influential figure in the field of intuition and psychic exploration. Her dedication to helping others, her deep insights, and her commitment to raising consciousness have made her a guiding light in a world that's ever in need of wisdom and understanding.

So sit back, relax, and get ready to embark on a Join us on a journey of discovery as we delve into the fascinating world of Jeanne Maillot.

Dustin Grinnell (00:03:31 --> 00:03:34)
Jeanne Maillot, welcome to the podcast. Thank you.

Jeanne Mayle (00:03:34 --> 00:03:35)
I'm glad to be here.

Dustin Grinnell (00:03:36 --> 00:03:46)
So I understand before we kind of launch into some of the questions that you wanted to do a little meditation to kind of ground us. Yes. So please feel free to do that. I think it's a great idea.

Jeanne Mayle (00:03:46 --> 00:05:24)
And I think there's always an angel with me, but if I focus on it, then I know there is. So I want to visualize first for both of us that there's a great angel here, and that the whole studio The vibe of this studio is, and I can feel it now, is filling up with that light, that caring, that love, and that we're both in our real true selves. And now let's just close our eyes and breathe and just focus on our senses, just breath or angel or both.

And make an intention that whatever transpires now is for good, our good, and anyone who hears this podcast's good.

Just breathing for a moment.

Dustin Grinnell (00:05:25 --> 00:05:44)
So actually, you know, I had a few questions that I wanted to jump into, but before that, I want to get a sense of this angel. What is it? Where is it? What does it look like? What's the impression that you get? Is this something that's always there? Is this something you called forth? And what is the purpose of it?

Jeanne Mayle (00:05:44 --> 00:07:52)
Part of me, my more rational side says it's part of your psyche. It's the most hope-filled, love-filled, present part of your psyche. But really, when I call upon her, she's just a beautiful creature of love. And there have been people over the years who've passed, particularly a woman who was there for me when I was born, a housekeeper who was there named Rosalie. And sometimes I think it's Rosalie And other times it feels like just a symbol of like a Platonic ideal, like the Virgin Mary, or in the tarot it's the Queen of Cups, or some people think Isis.

I don't know. And I know that when I want to help people, it seems in the last few years I've let go of my concern of religion. I don't want religion in my story. But angels come in. And I think it probably goes back to very ancient times that we need this higher power.

And another part of me looks up at the whole sky, the whole universe, and feels that there's a divinity in the oneness in the entire vast, great universe that we can't possibly understand the limits of. And if we trust in it, We will get this, this divine loving creature. And I still don't know who you are up there. People ask me, who are my guides? What are their names?

Dustin Grinnell (00:07:53 --> 00:08:06)
Now, could one say that they're there for all of us? Which is to say that, could I access this? Could a listener? Absolutely. And how does one go about making contact and believing?

Jeanne Mayle (00:08:07 --> 00:09:53)
It's a part of being evolved, wishing to stretch yourself, wishing to be higher. And we just can't do that on our own. We're all specks in a giant universe. And even if you think of us as specks of just the human race, there's a lot of people who've been in this, in the body now, and will be, who are very, very evolved. And so you're reaching for higher.

And for them to give you a hand to pull you up. And they do, and they want to. And you and I, we pull other people up. Sometimes, well, whenever anyone needs healing in the last few years, I just send angels. I used to try to just do it myself.

And then I started to realize that it was not good for me to just think that I was sending healing. It was like taking a piece of me. And so when I started getting people who really need a lot of help and people who are very ill, for example, I knew I couldn't just do that. If I did, it would drain me. And so I started sending angels.

Dustin Grinnell (00:09:53 --> 00:10:00)
Could you share one of angels you sent to someone, whether it's in a healing capacity or And what was the outcome?

Jeanne Mayle (00:10:00 --> 00:12:21)
Well, this is personal, but it's what's on my mind, so I'll say it. For a few years, my son, when he graduated college and worked for a while and then said, "I just want to travel," he got a backpack and he traveled all around the world. And he went on and on for a long time. I mean, really several years. And at one point, he was in Central America and he had broken or lost his phone.

That was my contact. That was our way of knowing, are you okay? And we knew he was hitchhiking too. And I mean, it was a mother's trial. And I have my ways of getting help on that.

I walk around in the forest and ask the trees, is Tommy okay? And I would always get, he's fine. But this time he lost his phone and he was traveling and I was worried. And You know, you read all kinds of scary stuff about who he might come in contact with. And I knew he didn't have much money left.

He would go and work like in hostels. And he did very well and he survived the whole ordeal really well. But at the time, so he was, I didn't know it, but he was in the back of a pickup truck traveling. And there was a couple driving him. And I didn't know that.

I knew he was trying to get from one place to the other. And there was no contact. So I prayed that angels would be there for him and protect him and take care of him. Well, it turns out he reached this point where they were going one way and he was going another. So they— he got out of the truck and the couple came over and they put their arms around him.

And the guy handed him $2, which was a lot of money for this guy. And, you know, Tommy didn't really need it, but The man wanted— he said no, and the man wanted him to have it just so that he'd have a place to sleep because he was worried about him. And then he and his wife put their arms around him and they prayed for him. And Tommy later told me that he just started crying. He's not a crier, but he felt so much love coming from these people.

And he just felt protected. And they were my angels. And his. And his. Well, that's what I was doing.

Dustin Grinnell (00:12:21 --> 00:12:29)
And in some way, that distance was closed between you two, and it was manifested through these people.

Jeanne Mayle (00:12:29 --> 00:12:30)
That's what you think. Yeah.

Dustin Grinnell (00:12:30 --> 00:12:33)
That's what I know.

Jeanne Mayle (00:12:33 --> 00:13:39)
And I've done this so many times for other people where they'll be ill or worried or scared or in trouble, and I'll send angels. And then I'll see— usually now I think I've honed this in a way that I can actually trust what I'm seeing when I send the angels. And they will rush in. And I start to realize that a lot of times there are people in the hospital, nurses and aides, or a doctor, or— and then you hear later the story that happened and why it turned out okay and who helped that person and what they told them and how they positioned their body. And I I love it because it fits what I was seeing. So I don't really feel like I'm in control of what spirit does. What I can do is make the intention of love and healing for them and send emissaries to take care of it. And I do think there's an impact on that. And also there's been studies, by the way.

Dustin Grinnell (00:13:39 --> 00:14:13)
Yeah, why don't you share some data? I can hear we're Boston-based, it's very intellectual. We're very close to MIT. MIT and Harvard. Oh yeah. It's an environment that's dense with intellectuals and skeptics and highly educated people. And I know you live in a town that's full of very highly educated people. And I hear the skeptical voice in my head. What's the mechanism? How could you influence your son from a great distance through a force that isn't yet scientifically validated?

Jeanne Mayle (00:14:13 --> 00:15:59)
Well, psychological studies don't really tell you what the science is, but there are studies. And the one really elegant study— elegant's the word that scientists use when a study is very clever. E mc². Yeah, kind of incontrovertible type study, although everything in science is questionable. There is no such thing really as Evidence.

It's after a while enough studies are done and then people start to agree, or if they don't want to agree, they'll never agree. But there was one that was done. It was on healing and it was a Korean study. And I don't remember the people's names or any of that right now, but there were women in fertility clinic who were trying to get pregnant and lots and lots of them, like hundreds of them. And they had these people in Korea who were brought in to do the study and they divided up the group randomly and the women, and they divided the other people randomly who were praying for them.

And they had the one group pray that they would be able to get pregnant. And that's a good, elegant study because you're either pregnant or you're not. Whereas if you have a study, I'm sure there have been studies where you pray that somebody will get better from cancer or get better from COVID or something. You know, there's just too many factors involved, but you either get pregnant or you're not. So they found a very strong, statistically significant effect of the prayer group that was praying for the women.

And then there was probably a control. I think there was a control group and they were just praying in general. They were told to pray. And the women didn't know they were being prayed for. And so, I thought that was a pretty elegant study.

Dustin Grinnell (00:15:59 --> 00:16:01)
[Speaker:JOSH] They were blinded, yeah. [Speaker:ELIZABETH] Yeah.

Jeanne Mayle (00:16:01 --> 00:17:22)
And that one jumped out at me. But in the end of the day, I grew up in that intellectual community. And then my first 10 years working in the work world was in that community. I even worked in a think tank where we did studies, and everybody was like, people were from MIT and Harvard, and et cetera. And at the end of the day, Really isn't about the studies.

It's about your heart and your inner knowledge. I know we have to have a databank to work from. Otherwise, the heart can tell us that people are witches and we can burn them at the stake and stuff like that. And we don't want to be just going on gut intuition or feelings. We have to have some logic and we have to have both sides of the brain.

Dustin Grinnell (00:17:22 --> 00:17:41)
How did the pendulum swing so far in the kind of rational, scientific reductionist? Because that is, I agree, where we are at. It's almost like a revolutionary act to talk like you're talking in the sense that we should be more trusting of intuitive thinking.

Jeanne Mayle (00:17:41 --> 00:21:17)
I started with reading Elizabeth Mayer's book, M-A-Y-E-R, Extraordinary Knowing. And she was a psychiatrist at Berkeley and a very musical person too. Music does really enhance your intuition. And she had a psychic experience that just blew her away. So she wrote this whole book.

She spent 10 years writing it. And she talked about, the history. And back in the late 1800s, 1880s or so, you had William James, who was a physician at Harvard, and he started psychiatry. He's one of the founders of psychiatry. And there were a few others, but I'll start with him.

They believed in psychic stuff. They believed in psychic experiences. And he kept a record that's many volumes thick that I believe is in William James Hall now, which is the high-rise building at Harvard that houses the psych department. And he was trying to create a body of evidence or knowledge about psychic phenomenon and what I call intuition. And he had so much power at Harvard that they allowed him to do it.

But there are fundamental conflicts with religion, with the Catholic Church. It interferes with the power of priests and leaders in religious communities. And I'm not just blaming the Catholic Church, but that's very influential here in our Christian society. I'm sure it's a problem and an issue in many organized religions. And there were naysayers, lots and lots of naysayers, and they ridiculed these people.

But William James had a kind of power of his own. And it wasn't until he died, that Skinner came along. And Skinner was the absolute opposite. And that's how I was introduced to psychology in the late '60s at UMass. It was all about rats and mazes and Skinner and classical conditioning and stimulus and response.

Forget intuition. But William James's body of knowledge still exists. And I think it's significant that he believed in this. And there were others too. In fact, there's evidence that Freud was very much interested in the topic and urged these folks to move forward, but didn't want it in his name because it would jeopardize what he was trying to— he had his theory of the unconscious, and he wanted it to gel.

He wanted people to accept it. And If you think about it, the unconscious is where all of this psychic phenomenon happens. It happens in the part of our minds that is not logical. It isn't like a databank. It spontaneously appears.

Dustin Grinnell (00:21:17 --> 00:21:48)
And because of the bias, probably many of those biases were internalized by yourself as well as you were growing up, as you were coming of age. And yet somehow you evolved into your intuitive abilities. They were there, or you learned how to get in touch with them. How did you do that? You know, how did you— you were taking somewhat of a conventional career path and educational path, and yet you came into your abilities.

Jeanne Mayle (00:21:48 --> 00:26:53)
And so in our childhood, we're more generally trying to please the family and fit into this, as we get older, into the society and in high school, and then first I remember reading passages back in 1978, Gayle Sheehy's book about the changes that happen throughout adulthood. And she talked about how in your 20s, you're just trying to live out, you're trying out adulthood, you're trying to be like your parents. So in my 20s, I wanted to get a really good job. I wanted it to be a professional job. And I also, of course, I ended up at this think tank and everybody was from Harvard, MIT.

So I just like, I need to go to Harvard. I've gotta have a Harvard degree. I'm just from UMass, don't take it seriously. That was my prejudice. That's not the way it is in life.

So I was immersed in that crowd. I did go and get a master's in education at the Harvard School of Education. And then I went to the School of Public Health. And I just kept making greater demands on myself to— I should now get a PhD. But I was so eager to work.

Anyway, I had the job of my dreams, of my earlier dreams, which was that I was working in New York City for the mayor's office of management and budget, doing policy work in the field of health, education, and welfare. And I got bored. I mean, my body told me I didn't want to come into the office in the morning. I found if I thought about it, it was because I would do all this work that I got excited about, and then it would have to be analyzed by a million committees. And I had so many great ideas.

When I had been in Boston working for Dukakis under in welfare, I came up with ideas in healthcare that they adopted to try and get control of healthcare costs without sacrificing care. And I was just this ideas person. It was very intuitive. It was not data-based. It was that I would just think of these things and say, "Oh, we should do this." And then I'd write an email.

I had a great boss and he would say, "Write a memo." I'd write a memo about it. It would get in front of the governor's desk and he'd say, Do it. And then it was like magic. Then I went to New York and it wasn't like that anymore. It was a better, bigger job, but it was a bigger pond, right?

Fish in a— it really was. New York City is nothing like it. But I felt like I wasn't satisfied. And so I quit my job, which everyone was shocked. And they said, what are you going to do?

And I said, I don't know. I think what I'm going to do is I was about 32 years old. And I said, I rented out my apartment and slept on the couch so that I didn't have to work. And because apartment rates were going up so fast in New York that I could do that and have a windfall. And I said, every day, I'm going to get up and figure out what I feel like doing this day.

And maybe I will figure out who I really am that way. And it worked. It absolutely worked. And where did I end up? I ended up going back to Boston.

And I decided to go and get a degree in public health at Harvard, which sounds like, well, what, why would you do that? Because I just needed time. But I knew that I was going in the right direction, which was caring, healthcare or caring for people. But while I was doing that, someone took me to see a psychic. And Fortunately, I went to see somebody who was— he's passed over now, but he was really a legend in his own time.

And he looked me in the eyes and he knew everything that mattered to me. And I remember that moment. His name was David Hall. And he just said, you need to know what you need to do. You're asking, what work should I do?

And I remember leaving that session. He was in a tea room in Boston, which was You know, you pay tips. You give tips. And he was so in the lowly level, but he was so elevated. And I said, this changes everything.

How so? He had a gift that I had never experienced so clearly. He knew me. And he'd never met me. He knew my hopes and dreams and thoughts.

And I mean, I'd gone into therapy and nobody could really get to it. I didn't even know. What I wanted. But it was like a light bulb going off. And I remember that moment.

I said, I have got to understand this. I have to know what he's doing. I have to be able to do it. And I used to go for long walks every day around the Western Reservoir, which is a forest, which was where I can clear my head. And I decided after a few months of that, that I wanted to be able to do this, what he was doing.

Dustin Grinnell (00:26:53 --> 00:27:14)
Because, you know, in a way it was covered up a little. And so you went through this period of uncovering, but then you, in retrospect, you realized you were using it probably in your job. All those great ideas that you had were coming through your intuition. And so you got more in touch with that and you decided to follow it and in a way professionalize it. I did. Over time.

Jeanne Mayle (00:27:15 --> 00:29:50)
And he used to meditate on a timeline for each of his clients. And interestingly, now I have created this timeline meditation, and I don't just so much do it for clients, I do it on the world because the world matters. Our survival matters to me. So I'm very focused on that. And I teach others to do it.

And then it turns out after all this teaching of people, we call it Read the Future Night. It actually has RTF, we call it. These intuitive people were flocking to my website and to me to learn how to do this. And they also discovered their gift. And we post these predictions.

And the only reason I post them initially was just so that we could track ourselves because when you see something that you have seen come true, it's like water on your face. It's such a wake-up to your own innate gift. And everyone has the gift, and this is a good method. But if we backtrack a little, what really woke me up was when I got a little deck of tarot cards. And cards are just pictures.

That's all they are. They're just— tarot is a structured set of pictures that have been handed down in a certain structure that involves numerology and organizing the way growth happens in a person and understanding. And so it's not just simple pictures. But initially for me, I would stare at this picture and all of this knowledge would come because pictures are— they spark the intuition. You look at them and you're not analyzing them.

You're just, you get a reaction. And it's an unconscious one too. And it's unconscious. And I mean, people call them projection devices. And that's used in therapy as well.

You know, called the— there's thematic apperception tests, which they use for children where they show them a photograph that's somewhat neutral and they ask the kid to describe what they see in that photograph. And the kid, the child, will start to reveal their situation in their home that they could never ever talk about. And Now, the tarot isn't a thematic apperception device, but it is pictures. And I noticed that when I stared at a picture, if I was— I had roommates and I said, let's try this. We were just doing it for fun.

Dustin Grinnell (00:29:50 --> 00:29:51)
You would have an insight.

Jeanne Mayle (00:29:51 --> 00:29:52)
You'd have an idea.

Dustin Grinnell (00:29:52 --> 00:30:01)
And they would go, oh my God. Such as what? Like what kind of insight? We ran out of ramen noodles and nobody knew?

Jeanne Mayle (00:30:01 --> 00:30:13)
Well, like I had an insight about you and I that it would be structured. And that came from this card that I pulled that shows structure, although you're keeping to a structure actually.

Dustin Grinnell (00:30:13 --> 00:30:33)
We have a list of questions. You're allowing a flow too. Yeah, I've approached this as a journalist. You may have understood like the way it prepped and the way I wrote up the questions and all the rest. It's not like a nonlinear thing. So I'm sure you got that, but that was explicit. But you also got it from an intuitive sense as well.

Jeanne Mayle (00:30:33 --> 00:32:51)
I wanna see them inwardly. And when you've been doing this for 30 years, your gifts grow and expand. And so I don't just use the cards anymore, but they're very reliable 'cause I'm a very visual person. As a hobby, I was an artist for a long time and I did a lot of photography and paintings and everything. And I just love the visual, I love it.

And so that's one of the senses, all of the senses that we have, are also inwardly experienced. Not just staring out or listening to sound. You have an inward, unconscious, intuitive reaction. And I happen to be very good, I think most people are actually, with the visual sense. And they have done experiments with this.

They've looked at people who were, through MRIs, who were being intuitive and they can see when they're doing it with their eyes that it comes in and actually goes to the visual cortex, which is the part of the brain that works with the eyes. But it's inner seeing. And then part of it goes down into the reptilian brain. But you can also be very good in all your senses. And that's something I've been working on more and more.

I'm just saying though, that to get back to the original topic, I pulled a tarot card and it was instant. It was an instant gift and I loved it. And you should always follow what you love within reason, of course. And it was so much easier than other things that I had done. Like, I'm not very good with directions, which is why I got lost coming here.

And I don't like arithmetic and math. So you go with what you're good at and what gives you joy. And it was giving me a lot of joy. And I was like, this is a toy. It's fun.

But I needed more. I needed to turn it in. It had to be something that I enjoyed. And what I discovered was that when I was one-on-one with people and I was using these cards, and also I would use some of David's techniques, meditating on them, I could help them. And that's what I always wanted to do.

Dustin Grinnell (00:32:51 --> 00:33:44)
I always wanted to help people. Your realization was, after a period of disillusionment, was to be in service of people and to use your powers, to use your gifts. Exactly. I think the interesting thing about being on the phone with someone is that it sort of preempts the objections skeptics may have, which is that, you know, psychics may be about like kind of picking up traits of people while they're reading, whether it's clothing, whether it's their temperament, whether it's the way they present themselves. But on the phone, you're sort of devoid of all those things, so you're really just using voice and impressions. And so I'm wondering kind of what is the subjective experience that you're having when you're on the phone with someone and they're calling you to, you know, whatever they're asking to do, what are you reading?

Jeanne Mayle (00:33:44 --> 00:34:12)
What are you picking up? Well, it's changed over the years. And I can tell you where I'm at now with it. I sit in a room in my house, usually, and it's looking out at a forest. And I'm very connected to trees and forests. Very healing. And the first thing I do is stare at the trees in the forest, and they are an image, a projection device.

Dustin Grinnell (00:34:12 --> 00:34:16)
Almost like a tarot card. It is. It's the same. It's nature.

Jeanne Mayle (00:34:16 --> 00:36:47)
And I didn't quite know what he meant, but it's the same thing I'm throwing light on the forest. You're looking at an image and you are allowing yourself to see. It's so hard to explain it, but I've done it in classes that I teach and everybody gets it. And I'll give them a card. This is on a Zoom class, right?

I'll put a card in front of them, or years before Zoom, I would just do it put it on a screen in the room. And I would say, imagine this person is the Dalai Lama. What do you see? And their eyes would go to certain aspects that fit the Dalai Lama. Then I would say, okay, now imagine this person is Donald Trump.

What do you see? And they would see very different stuff. And then I would say— this was during the Trump years. And, but Jean, you know, they would say, you're telling me who the person is. And so then I would pick someone in the class.

They were in the mode. They knew that they were in some ways doing something when they knew it was the Dalai Lama. They were seeing aspects to the picture that fit him. And so then I would say, okay, now let's pick somebody we don't know. And we'd pick a member of the class and we'd say, Okay, that same image is the person in the class.

What do you see? And there would be a sort of a silence. And then people would explode with something they were picking up. Where was their eye going? What did they feel when their eye went that way?

Like, are you picking up on the guy's buckle? Why? Is it too sharp? What? And it's a primitive method in the beginning when you first do it, but when you practice it enough, You don't even realize anymore how you're breaking apart the image.

Dustin Grinnell (00:36:47 --> 00:36:48)
What would be an example?

Jeanne Mayle (00:36:48 --> 00:38:36)
I had one yesterday. I was reading someone, and now the trees are all— I was away for 2 weeks, and then I came back and the trees are all leafed out. You can't see the tree very well anymore. And so I'm reading this guy, and I suddenly— this is what David would call throwing light on it— I'm suddenly seeing him, and I'm imagining that He's behind all that foliage and it's clouding his mind. And I'm getting this image of his head is in the clouds and that he's just clouded.

And so I talked about that. And I also could see that if he could just elevate a little bit, his head would be above those foliage and he would see the sky. And so I worked on that with him. How does he stop? He was overthinking.

Overthinking everything. Too many ideas, too many thoughts, too many— He couldn't make a decision. He couldn't even make a decision about what is true of his own person in his life, his partner. And so you learn to trust these gut feelings. They start to form as you stare into these images.

But then there's more. There's more because that's one method. Then I ask for feedback. I'll just say, let me know if it's making sense. Don't tell me how.

Dustin Grinnell (00:38:36 --> 00:38:36)
Yeah.

Jeanne Mayle (00:38:36 --> 00:38:37)
Just keep it all—

Dustin Grinnell (00:38:37 --> 00:38:39)
Don't say a word. Don't even—

Jeanne Mayle (00:38:39 --> 00:39:48)
Well, what can happen, it can work if they are very open and receptive. I can feel it. And then the reading will come. But if they are suspicious, I can feel the wall. And then after years of doing this and wanting to have fun while I'm doing this or to feel good about it, I'm not as interested in breaking down people's walls.

I think I said to you, you noticed that I'd written somewhere, it isn't seeing is believing, it's believing is seeing. And if they are skeptics, they're blocking. And I'm just not somebody interested in dealing with that. I'd rather have a joyful relationship with somebody, and I don't want to just try to change them in that way. And it's too much work.

Dustin Grinnell (00:39:48 --> 00:40:29)
I'm sure over the years you've met with probably hundreds of people. And do you get a sense of what people want from you? What they come to you for? If it's fine to share what that man was seeking, it sounded like he was in the fog. He needed clarity and kind of this something to cope with the overthinking, to kind of step out above. Maybe in a crisis of some kind. He didn't know what to do with a certain relationship. And he probably, after you, got a sense that he needed to take a break or reflect and see things clearly. And if you can share, what was he looking for?

Jeanne Mayle (00:40:29 --> 00:42:28)
And this happens a lot. And I'm happy to oblige what I can do. I can never assure that this is the future. But generally what happens then, so what I do for that is I just threw a bunch of cards in a row, like a timeline. And I could see a huge block right away.

And for him, that he was going to go out into the world all excited about something and then block, block, block, Problems, problems, problems, problems. And so instead of saying, "That's your future," I said, "Let's talk about this. Let's talk about this. Let's go back to now and what's going on inside." Because if you could resolve that, the blocks would go away. Yeah.

Everyone really calls for healing. And I used to wonder why I get excited when a person called and they had a lot of problems or like a big problem. And I get excited because it was easy to read when there's a problem. It was just like, you know, a storm and, you know, you'd see something, it would be big. As opposed to when people call and say, everything's fine, everything's groovy.

I'm just kind of like curious. And what really, truly, We're all seeking healing in one way. We all have issues and we're trying to navigate the world we're in. And so what I immediately saw was it wasn't that he needs to see his future. He needed some hope and he needed to unhook some snags inside of him.

Dustin Grinnell (00:42:28 --> 00:42:42)
It's a little like that. But in this sense, it's cognitive. It's like a mental process. So what did you unblock in his own mind or help him see? Mostly codependency. Okay, so it was a therapeutic angle.

Jeanne Mayle (00:42:42 --> 00:44:32)
What do you want to do? Oh, I want to do this, but I need to consider the other people in my life. And so it was a lot like therapy, but it was intuitive, very intuitive. And then I was able to actually see a path where he would go and how it would work. I mean, you can always ask the question, well, if I take that dream trip that I want to take, in this case it was to Europe, how will that turn out?

I can get some vibe on that. It's just that It's tricky. The future itself, telling people the future takes a lot of discernment and care and humility. You have to know that you're working with something so uncertain. It's like working with the weather.

And so I try to go to the point that is certain. Where is there a wound that is gonna derail them. And let's go there and let's open it and let's clear it up. And you could say, well, Jean, you're just a psychotherapist. Well, yeah, I got trained in it, in psychotherapy, but that isn't really— I mean, and there are therapists who probably do what I do.

In fact, I know a psychiatrist who uses tarot as well as all the tools that she can find that will help people. But I wouldn't call myself a psychotherapist at all. I don't see people regularly, weekly, or any of that. It's more of an aha. I try to give a reading that will have people have a release of some kind inside of them that frees them, and then they can go forward.

Dustin Grinnell (00:44:32 --> 00:44:56)
An insight that will really help them. Yeah. And I was also realizing that there's a certain level of compassion that you have in your work in the sense that you saw those blocks, but you didn't communicate those blocks. You actually kind of backed up. Yeah. I worked on them. Yeah. Instead of, there would be something pessimistic about sharing the actual sight.

Jeanne Mayle (00:44:56 --> 00:45:31)
I really made a commitment years ago to do no harm. And if you hit somebody with some awful thing that you see coming in a way that they cannot overcome their fear, then you've harmed them. And I don't do that. And people say, "Well, tell me everything. I don't want you to hide anything." I don't really hide anything. But there's always hope. And the other thing you mentioned to me that you'd seen on my site was a Rumi statement that the wound is where healing is.

Dustin Grinnell (00:45:31 --> 00:45:36)
Yeah. The wound is the place where light enters you. Thank you.

Jeanne Mayle (00:45:36 --> 00:46:41)
And the falling is where the learning is. The crash is where the learning is. And it's true for our entire civilization, like the pandemic was a huge learning experience. And it's true for individuals. Now, this isn't to say that there isn't insight I can give in a situation that will be helpful.

Like, and I do, court cases, for example. Somebody is going to court in a divorce case, and I want to know who the judge is. And I'm going to read the judge because I want to know what he or she is going to think, or how they are predisposed. And I've been helpful, not only to people going into court cases, but to litigators. You need to know.

Dustin Grinnell (00:46:41 --> 00:46:46)
So attorneys have hired you to read the judge? Yes. So that they can get a competitive edge?

Jeanne Mayle (00:46:46 --> 00:47:25)
Or sometimes it's a panel of judges. And if it's an appeals case, it can be a panel. So yeah, I've done that. And so I don't want to make it sound as though all I do is a sort therapeutic thing. Sometimes we need a little info. And this gift is pretty vast. And I have to keep saying this, everyone has this gift. And so I really love teaching people to find it in themselves, but I never want to stop giving readings myself because I think it's just destined. I think I'm just supposed to.

Dustin Grinnell (00:47:25 --> 00:47:46)
Because I want to. Yeah. Do you have a sense that our species probably should get past a scientific or rational reductionist point of view to a more evolved space where consciousness is a little bit more in touch with intuitive abilities? Do you think that would be a more evolved species and maybe we'll be less harmful to each other in our home? Yes.

Jeanne Mayle (00:47:46 --> 00:47:53)
For two reasons. One reason is people are told what to think.

Dustin Grinnell (00:47:53 --> 00:47:56)
Media tells people what to think. Manufactured consent.

Jeanne Mayle (00:47:56 --> 00:49:00)
Yeah. And if you are more in touch with your gut instincts, which start with the body and the psyche, then you have a direct relationship to what's going on in the world, as opposed to through another. Now, you know, centuries ago it was through a priest or magistrate or someone. Now it's more through the media. So teaching people intuition will mean more, I think it means more authenticity in the way people think. And not just about what people are telling them about the world, but also in their relationships. There are people who are controlled by their partners, codependency. They're unhappy, they're miserable, and yet they feel like, I need to be good. I need to do what he or she says. And so, Learning to trust your gut, your gut instincts, is critical to authenticity. It's very tied up with mindfulness, which is, of course, very popular right now. Except mindfulness teachers don't take the next step to intuition.

Dustin Grinnell (00:49:00 --> 00:49:53)
They do tend to be very intuitive, though. It's interesting, because I think getting more in touch with your gut and intuition, it's a very empowering thing. Because like you said, you're not dependent on figuring out what to think and feel by an external source. You can start to make decisions as a free thinker, as a free feeler, you know. And I think that makes you— it almost like vaccinates you against people who may want to control, or, you know, whether it is, uh, someone acting in bad faith or I can't imagine you would be very vulnerable to, like, falling into a cult if you were really well attuned to your gut, because you know that doesn't ring true. You know, you would feel the bad intentions. And so I think it's a very empowering thing to learn how to trust your gut.

Jeanne Mayle (00:49:53 --> 00:50:22)
[Speaker:Tippett] I do too. And, you know, it's interesting because even in reviewing science, it's important, or even being a scientist, it's important To be able to see the woods from the trees, which is what this is. Intuition is an altogether spontaneous view of things where you're putting all the pieces together in one view. And so even in reviewing science, I use my intuition.

Dustin Grinnell (00:50:22 --> 00:50:37)
It's just a feeling. All the greatest scientists, all of our breakthroughs have come through intuition in the sense that we have, how penicillin was discovered. We all know of Einstein His thought experiments. Yes.

Jeanne Mayle (00:50:37 --> 00:52:35)
He was 13 years old. Wireless communication. He just saw it. He just knew it. And then he spent his life proving it.

Yes. Proving it. Making it happen and experimenting with it. But I love— and Jonas Salk is very famous for coming up with the statement that every morning he wakes up wondering what will pop up that day. What will his intuition tell him that day?

I hope that's really his statement. Sometimes things are attributed to people that aren't true. But it goes true to the statement of a good scientist is somebody who can see the woods from the trees. I think James Hansen is a climate scientist. I read his— he was the NASA scientist who left the administration and went out on his own.

I started reading his studies. I wasn't actually able to read the studies. They're so technical. But reading what he was saying about his studies, many 10 years years ago or more. And I knew instantly this guy's right.

And other people didn't agree. But I could feel it. I just, I felt that he was right. And because I could feel him, I mean, I knew that he was deeply sincere about what he was doing. I could feel how smart he was.

But also, I have probably my biggest, most accurate intuition has been about the environment and the climate and the visions that I've gotten for the longest stretch going back 30 years ago and what will happen with civilization and how will the climate go. So I was very much in need of a climate scientist who I could trust. And he was considered fringe. And now he's been right, so right. I just think the only thing is that he's a little conservative.

Dustin Grinnell (00:52:35 --> 00:53:11)
I can stick with what my gut feeling is. I find that idea fascinating that you can have an insight that's profound and you could spend the rest of your life using the rational side of your mind to kind of prove it out. That's fascinating. And speaking of Einstein, I just did want to share one quote that relates to what we've been talking about. He said, "The workings of intuition transcend those of the intellect." and are as well known, innovation is often a triumph of intuition over logic. That's Albert Einstein. He worked it out through intuition and then used math to prove it out.

Jeanne Mayle (00:53:11 --> 00:54:01)
Yes, because he was considered a quack, really. I mean, he was— you're going against conventional thought. And to go against conventional thought, they're all using their own data bank. You have to come up with a new data bank, really. You have to come up with something new that they don't know about. And it takes a leap to do that. And where are you going to get it? The mind has, the brain has literally, I think, millions of thoughts, synapses, thoughts. And how does one of them come to cognitive surface? How does it get to the surface where you're actually aware that you're thinking it and you're thinking it and talking about it? I feel that's intuition. And that's a one-in-a-million kind of image or thought.

Dustin Grinnell (00:54:01 --> 00:54:34)
And do you have, like, for everyday people who are just going about their lives and they don't have much connection to these ideas about intuitive abilities, they don't see psychics, they don't maybe necessarily have any objections or skepticism, but what do you say to people that— what are a few things they can do to get more intuitive? And we talking about walking in the forest and getting quiet? Are we talking about meditating? What gives you the best chance for access?

Jeanne Mayle (00:54:34 --> 00:55:34)
Your body. The wisdom of the body, which is what meditation or mindfulness meditation is about. Trust the breathing in and out. Everyone's different in how they find the quietness to be able to hear the signal from all the noise. And for me, it's walking in the forest.

I would probably do well walking on the beach. I swim every day. When I get in the pool, I get clear. My mind is refreshed. Anything that takes care of you other than addictions.

Dustin Grinnell (00:55:34 --> 00:55:42)
Right. And watching, you know, binging on movies, that's really just anesthetizing yourself. That's not self-care. That's passivity.

Jeanne Mayle (00:55:42 --> 00:56:32)
It's better than nothing. But if you think you're going to break down, but walk in the woods, they call it forest bathing, getting in a quiet space. And that's why one of the reasons I had to get another dog when our dog died is I said, I got to get out into the woods and I know I'll do it for the dog. And the beach. Some people just like to sit quietly.

And for some people listening to music. Or singing themselves. You know, there's so many ways. Laughter too, you know, jokes and laughter, anything to release stress. But I say get away, like get out of the house and go out, go for a walk.

Dustin Grinnell (00:56:32 --> 00:56:36)
And then it's one thing to get the insight. It's another thing to follow it, isn't it?

Jeanne Mayle (00:56:36 --> 00:57:56)
And it's funny how we start to get insights. We start to think, you know, I really should do this. And it's often so simple. You know, I teach this course now called Become Deeply Intuitive. I haven't set it up for this year yet.

Originally, I taught all these tricks that psychics use, like the cards and timeline meditations and stuff like that. But really, it's about finding out how you are intuitive. And you've been intuitive. You've been doing it all your life. You've been doing it since you were a baby.

And then going back and reviewing the moments in which you got it right and you didn't even realize it. And then that alone can help to bring you into a more intuitive state. That's why I track all our predictions so that people can at least say, "Geez, I said that? Oh, wow." If you go one step further, I've asked my students to send me a letter when they first start the Course. List all the ways you've been intuitive.

Dustin Grinnell (00:57:56 --> 01:00:08)
The other, I wanted to maybe run that scene by Interstellar by you to see if you had any thoughts on it. But there is a great scene in that movie Interstellar by Christopher Nolan, and I think it for some reason ended up in my questions to you because the scene is exploring something that's non-scientific, and it's a bunch of astronauts talking who are very scientific. But I think the gist of it is that that maybe there is another level of space and time that we humans aren't in contact with at the moment that sometimes we get access to. And the idea was they were just basically explorers, astronauts out in space looking for a new planet so that our species can move because we had— our planet had become more or less unlivable and we needed to relocate. They explored one planet and it didn't work out, and they only had fuel for to go to one more planet out of two.

And so they had to make a decision. And basically, two previous explorers had landed on both those planets and they were communicating up data. And one of those planets was communicating data that said the planet was perfect in terms of all the metrics you would use to assess whether humans can live there. And the other had no longer been transmitting data. They thought that the astronaut probably had passed.

And the idea was, is that one of the astronauts said, "Well, that's really an obvious choice, right? We have the data." But the other astronaut was saying, "I don't know why, but I don't think we should go to that planet. I think we should go to the other planet," even though they didn't have the data. And The astronaut immediately brought up to everybody else that the woman who was saying that had a previous romantic relationship with the explorer who was on that other planet. So he kind of thought she was being blinded by— Right.

Jeanne Mayle (01:00:08 --> 01:00:09)
She wanted to see him.

Dustin Grinnell (01:00:09 --> 01:00:40)
She wanted to see him again. And she said that. She said, "Is there a part of me that wants to see him again? Yes." But there's a great kind of 2-and-a-half-minute scene where she talks about maybe love is being communicated somehow. Maybe it's a form of data that we don't yet know how to kind of analyze and read. Maybe love transcends space and time in the sense that they were millions of miles apart, but they still were connected in a way.

Jeanne Mayle (01:00:40 --> 01:00:47)
There's so many people who lose someone and then they're just so sure they're still alive. And it turns out they are.

Dustin Grinnell (01:00:47 --> 01:00:58)
They can feel them. Yeah. Even if you're— the movie is great in the sense that it dramatizes that love from distance. Now, in quantum mechanics, there's entanglement and there's—

Jeanne Mayle (01:00:58 --> 01:02:21)
And although I didn't see the scene, I had a thought about what I would do, and I pulled a card, actually. Oh, interesting. So the card I pulled is the universe card. It's the highest card in the deck. And it's all about outer space, actually.

And it's about the wisdom of the universe that we can't understand because we're little creatures. And humans are a young species even to boot. And what I would want to do, I've had this happen to me, I would want to get behind the wheel of the spaceship and just see, and I would make a prayer. Of, "Take me." I don't know if I'm talking to an angel or to myself, but to my body, I would say, "Take me to the right place for us." And I would just see where I go. And I've done that a lot.

And it's worked out. I just feel there's— it's so hard to know, like, what the woman said feels right if she's bias. She has a person on that planet. I don't know what she was actually feeling. But if she was feeling him beckoning, and I knew that, I would go there.

Dustin Grinnell (01:02:21 --> 01:02:56)
What's interesting is that she was right. Not only was she right, it was the data that was coming from the other planet was fabricated. Because the astronaut who had landed there had been there for so many years, he was lonely and disconnected, and his last shot at survival was to fake the data for his survival. And so they landed, they chose that planet, they went away from the one the woman wanted to go to, they landed on the other planet, and they made the wrong decision. Yeah. Which is that love was kind of— Yeah.

Jeanne Mayle (01:02:56 --> 01:02:57)
The right—

Dustin Grinnell (01:02:57 --> 01:02:57)
Yeah.

Jeanne Mayle (01:02:58 --> 01:03:29)
Data. Yeah. Yeah. And if Dad is fabricated, I probably, I mean, I was wondering about that actually. Was it fake? You know, but I didn't have all the knowledge of how it could be fake. But I figured there was Martians there that were trying to lure them so they could eat them. That's what I was thinking when you said it. But yeah, I would go with the connection to the person. The love connection is strong. I mean, that's basically, I think, how I knew my son was okay the whole time he was traveling is I would tune into him and see him Okay.

Dustin Grinnell (01:03:29 --> 01:03:36)
That's exactly the analogy. There was no data in the sense that he couldn't call you because his phone was out. He got it a different way. I got it a different way.

Jeanne Mayle (01:03:36 --> 01:03:47)
You got it exactly that way. It's good practice to do those things. And ultimately, there is leap of faith, but it's a good one. Love.

Dustin Grinnell (01:03:47 --> 01:03:53)
Well, I think that's a good place to leave it. This has been a beautiful conversation, and thank you for it.

Jeanne Mayle (01:03:53 --> 01:03:58)
Thank you for coming. It's been wonderful talking with you. Thank you.

Dustin Grinnell (01:03:58 --> 01:04:07)
Thanks for listening to this episode of Curiously. I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Gene Mayo. Stay tuned for more conversations with people I meet along the way.