From Rock Bottom to Best Year Ever with Wes Towers

Wendy & Rich 0:00
Hey everyone is Rich Bennett. Can you believe it? The show is turning 10 this year. I am so grateful for each and every one of you who've tuned in, shared an episode, or even joined the conversation over the years. You're the reason that this podcast has grown into what it is today. Together, we've shared laughs, tears, tears, and moments that truly matter. So I want to thank you for being part of this journey. Let's make the next 10 years even better. Coming to you from the Freedom Federal Credit Union Studios, Harford County Living presents Conversations with Rich Bennett. 

No no no no it's like who is. 

Rich Bennett 1:00
Today's guest knows what it's like to have everything fall apart and then rebuild stronger than ever. West Towers was mid-divorce, emotionally drained, and told by follower that his business wasn't worth much. Get this because AI was coming for it. But instead of folding, West leaned in not just into technology but into what makes us human, trust, clarity, and connection. West is the founder of Uplift 360, a marketing agency that spent over 20 years helping trades and construction businesses turn websites and SEO into steady, qualified work. No fluff, no jargon. Just results you can see on the calendar and in the bank. So in this episode West shares his raw journey of resilience, reinvention, and how to thrive in an AI-driven world without losing your soul. So if you're ready for field test attacks, hard-won lessons, and a story that proves it's never too late to rebuild, then this one's for you. So let's just go ahead and dive right in. West, how you doing? 

Wes Towers 2:22
thanks so much Rich. Yeah, really well. It's an early start for me, but I'm all fueled up on the coffee ready to rock and roll with the conversation. And so yeah, happy to dive right into some of the horrific lessons learned the hard way I suppose a 

Rich Bennett 2:36
Well, 

Wes Towers 2:36
few years ago. 

Rich Bennett 2:38
So those of you listening, if you can't tell because West does not have the Baltimore accent, like I do, West, tell everybody where you're from, or where you're at actually. 

Wes Towers 2:48
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 2:49
Oh, 

Wes Towers 2:49
yeah. 

Rich Bennett 2:49
they're too, right? 

Wes Towers 2:50
Yeah, well it's Australia. It's a place called Geelong, which is just outside of Melbourne. So some people actually might know where we are. So we're on the way to the Surf Coast, like Bell's Beach, if anyone's into surfing, they may know our kind of region. So that's where I am just outside of Melbourne. So yeah, at 5 a. m. for me and evening. So it's good to, good to connect. 

Rich Bennett 3:16
I don't think I've ever had anybody get up this early in the morning to get on the podcast with me. I feel honored. To think it gets me, I'm looking, you don't even have a cup of coffee or anything with you. 

Wes Towers 3:28
Oh, yes, there's a, there's a 

Rich Bennett 3:29
here. 

Wes Towers 3:29
coffee Okay, there it is, I've got to be in my hand actually. 

Rich Bennett 3:33
yeah, yeah. Okay, just wanted to make sure. 

Wes Towers 3:37
So 

Rich Bennett 3:37
So 

Wes Towers 3:37
yeah, yeah, 

Rich Bennett 3:39
go ahead, I'm sorry. 

Wes Towers 3:40
Oh, second coffee as well. So I'm, I'm, I'm positive already. 

Rich Bennett 3:45
Oh, there you go. I see you described it in a wall, mid divorce, and being told that your business was essentially obsolete due to AI, which 

Wes Towers 3:55
yeah, 

Rich Bennett 3:56
you keep hearing that a lot. So can you take us back to that moment? What, what did it feel like to have everything that you built collapse? 

Wes Towers 4:07
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 4:08
The first spark of resolve come from. 

Wes Towers 4:10
Yeah, well it was a horrendous time really and most people's divorce time is and certainly when you've got children there's a whole bunch of heartache just naturally through that process. But then as part of the process I needed to get the business valued for 

Rich Bennett 4:25
Right, 

Wes Towers 4:25
practical reasons. And so it was a few years ago and it was just sort of the start of when AI was rising. And so, I mean just as a person I suppose I put a lot of my identity in my family but also my business and my identity as a business leader and the founder of the company and so on. And successful business and doing really well. But when the value were put, the value on the business they don't like anything any uncertainty because you can appreciate

I can 

Rich Bennett 4:58
right. 

Wes Towers 4:58
appreciate someone buying a business they want to know. Some level of certainty that the business is going to keep producing the income that it's always producing the profitability. And so with any disruption which AI is it's a massive disruption and it depends on who you listen to it could be horrible for everybody or it could be wonderful. In a whole lot of ways and that's probably going to be both. But certainly my industry so we do websites, we do SEO, search engine optimization, search everywhere optimization is what we're calling it now. But these are online, things these are desk jobs, these are the first jobs that are potentially vulnerable to be removed. So things will become easier and they are becoming easier to do websites and do online marketing in general. So yeah it was a real kick in the teeth and man just to get really clear how bad it was, I mean there was one instance where just felt like the whole world was collapsing around me and I was crying like a blubbering mess under my desk in the office. It's just so much going on and I realized I had an important meeting Zoom call in five minutes, so red eyeed and all dysregulated. I somehow pulled myself together and did the Zoom call and I closed the deal so it was I don't know how but I suppose like really comfortable with what I do as a business and presenting and so And I just did what was natural to me but the realization later that I had the capacity to compartmentalize so to put 

Rich Bennett 6:41
I'm 

Wes Towers 6:42
everything aside and just do the thing I need is to do at that time. There was a blessing and a curse in that capability because what it meant was.. Through my life I was able to mask things that were probably not ideal and so I 

Rich Bennett 6:57
Right, 

Wes Towers 6:57
meant that I didn't have to deal with things and if I had a doubt with things earlier because I didn't mask them and I was more authentic and self aware I suppose. I would have dealt with a whole lot of things, a whole bunch better than the way in which I just put things aside and compartmentalize and got on with my business and things were booming and doing really well but you know it catches up with you in the end. It's no long term strategy for life to put things aside 

Rich Bennett 7:27
right. 

Wes Towers 7:27
too long so that's what I 

Rich Bennett 7:29
Oh! 

Wes Towers 7:29
found. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 7:30
And when did you actually start the business? 

Wes Towers 7:33
Yeah, 20 years ago so, um.. 

Rich Bennett 7:35
Oh! 

Wes Towers 7:36
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, a long time. I feel really old when I say that. I still feel like a young person but then I'm looking at.. We're recording this sample with the video, not that it'll be published with the video but I'm looking at myself there and thinking, 'Man, I've got a few wrinkles. So I feel like an old man now so... 

Rich Bennett 7:53
Hey, at least you still have all your hair! 

Wes Towers 7:56
Yeah, it's 

Rich Bennett 7:56
Me! 

Wes Towers 7:56
us. 

Rich Bennett 7:57
I'm just a little bit outsmart. I have grew mine. 

Wes Towers 8:01
[Laughs] Yeah! I think I don't know if you're a Bible believer but there's something about going gray or losing your hair that it was the sign of wisdom so I'm clearly not as wise as you are. 

Rich Bennett 8:15
God! I love Yeah, and I always tell my wife this because I went to the dermatologist a couple years ago and I came home. I'm all smiling and everything. She's like, "What?" "They didn't find skin cancer?" I said, "No." But, he said, "I have wisdom spots." 

Wes Towers 8:33
Ah! 

Rich Bennett 8:33
He said, "You mean age spots?" I said, "No." He said, "Wism spots." So I'm wise or he didn't say, "Nothing about age spots. They're wisdom spots." 

Wes Towers 8:42
Yeah, 100 percent, 

Rich Bennett 8:43
I 

Wes Towers 8:43
that's... 

Rich Bennett 8:44
didn't win that argument 

Wes Towers 8:45
though. No, there's not many, not many you'll win. 

Rich Bennett 8:49
What? The reason that is true. The reason I asked how long ago, because you've seen this with a lot of companies that you're doing the web design and the SEL. And a lot of them ignored AI. when it started getting bigger and bigger. And you decided to dive right into it. And which, I got to commend you for that because there are still people out there today that are starting new web design businesses and SEO and not even thinking about AI or worrying about it. But you leaned into it your thing was you know what makes us human, the trust, the clarity and the connection. Was there a specific event or realization that led to that radical shift in your philosophy? 

Wes Towers 9:46
Yeah well I suppose the first thing that the blessing in disguise was the value and the rude wake up call that my business was vulnerable like many businesses are vulnerable right now. So it was a bit of it felt like a bit of a kick in the teeth there and there. And I suppose there's that as you say some people are avoiding things where there's fear we tend to avoid things but oftentimes the things we fear the most are the things we need to confront the most and on the flip side is the greatest value in your life. So it was a real blessing in disguise need to go through that whole process of assessing the business and to think about okay will AI is going to change a lot of things? How do I implement it to make it a strength? But also it gave me a time and chance to think about what I truly value who I am as a as a person. I'm thinking about it as a resetting of my own life. I think a lot of people did the whole reset of their own life after COVID. I didn't so much because it didn't really disrupt anything that we did because you know we could work remotely didn't need to it didn't affect me so much like I did a lot of people but I had the reset in this time through AI and so looked at ways I can implement it from a technical standpoint but really get clear and specific on what I value and I value human connection I value conversations like we're having right now. I value meeting up with people and having a coffee or a wine or just relating I'm a relational kind of person. So I want it 

Rich Bennett 11:24
and 

Wes Towers 11:24
yeah yeah that's right and so those conversations and the natural ups and downs of life and the sharing the wins and the challenges and all of this I really enjoy and value people. So 

Rich Bennett 11:40
we 

Wes Towers 11:41
I thought how do I humanise the brand even more? How do I make the most of these core values of mine because they're kind of polar opposite to what we're AI's taking us so AI's kind of taking us down this perfected polished fake world you know we're seeing it all the time with fake videos you know and they're getting so sophisticated it's kind of exciting but it's kind of terrifying as well because people can make a video of somebody and they're clearly not real because they're long past I was looking at a Michael Jackson one just last night and it looked exactly like him and he was even moving and sounding and it looked like a real thing but it was clearly wasn't. So it's frightening where we can go as a species with the AI and technology and what it all means so for me I'm just really looking at everything through the lens of humanity and how do I stay my authentic self and so I think that's brought tremendous value to the business as I found a led business I mean business is booming by the way it we've had our best financial year ever so just reported we report media so June is the cut off and so that was the best financial year ever so I'd love to take that back to the value and say hey man do you want to give me a new value because everything's much better than what you thought it might be but it's it's interesting. 

Rich Bennett 13:07
Do you still talk to that guy? 

Wes Towers 13:09
Ah no I don't have no 

Rich Bennett 13:10
I 

Wes Towers 13:11
have no need to but I probably bump into him at some point we're connected on socials and things so yeah 

Rich Bennett 13:17
okay well 

Wes Towers 13:17
yeah 

Rich Bennett 13:18
because I mean I would that after would you just say I'd be calling him right away say hey look what we 

Wes Towers 13:25
did we did yeah yeah 

Rich Bennett 13:27
well and actually since the time he talked to you it told you that you basically your business was going down hill how how many employee did you actually did you lose employees because of that at you because they say AI is going to take over a lot of positions or did you actually gain more employees 

Wes Towers 13:51
No, so I have remote teams. I have two teams in the, uh, one in the Philippines and one in India, and so that's exactly how it as it always has. Um, so the team size is just exactly the same. Actually, I brought my son on board, so he works with me one day a week here as well. So I guess that's grown slightly by me, one day a week. That's a huge blessing because I mean he's a creative, he does social media marketing, he works 

Rich Bennett 14:20
right right 

Wes Towers 14:21
with, he's already been working with some influencers here in Melbourne. So really well known people in Melbourne for their certain things that they do. Young people's thing is crazy. I don't really understand the appeal but they appeal to the young people and my son certainly works well with them. To bring him into the team is being fantastic because I mean he's starting his own business and journey. I climbed a similar to what I started as but I mean there were so many things I had to learn about business the hard way because no one sort of taught me. I just had a skill and I worked in a company and eventually I started my own business and had no idea about business and even put a proposal together how to do a meeting. Any of this stuff I had to sort of figure it out on the fly so I'm really pleased to have him under my wing now so I can sort of help try and encourage him so he can streamline and get to a higher level of success quicker than I did. 

Rich Bennett 15:20
It feels great when you get the worker for your son. My son worked with me for a while when I had my DJ business and since he was 13 and we both retired from the business. Two or three years ago. 

Wes Towers 15:37
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 15:37
Oh my god just those times working with your son are just got cherished because eventually they'll grow up and say "Dad I'm going on my own." Now I've got a nice girlfriend and I'm in the union certified electrician ain't that tough. Oh no that's my son, never mind. All right so I want to get back to the AI because it credit me if I'm wrong you leaned into it, you learned it. Do you feel like it's been a blessing in a way for your business? 

Wes Towers 16:15
If you get it right it certainly can be so to 

Rich Bennett 16:18
Right. 

Wes Towers 16:18
keep it in its right place so you should be the master or not the other way around and what I mean by that sometimes people will just lean on it for all the content that they produce for example. So they'll just go to their AI platform of choice and ask for content for their website for example. But it's not authentically there's it's just the average sum total of everything else that's ever been published because that's what these platforms do. They just pull it all together and create something for you and people publish it but there's no heart or thought behind it and there's nothing distinct or unique. So they're the real key core pillars that you really need to think about how you're prompting the tools. So you're leading it not the other way around so it's your genuine thoughts and ideas and then when you're using the AI platforms you can use it to amplify a message. So you could use it to take one piece of content and modify it so it's suitable for all the social media platforms for example and publish it and syndicate it far and wide. So it's your core message amplified through tools that can help you streamline process to get stuff done faster. 

Rich Bennett 17:30
Well you see I want to go back also to what because you said your son's helping you have the social media but you also see it with people using content everyone's now using AI tools for content. What are some of the telltale signs of generic AI generated content and what is your playbook for trades and construction brands to stand out and build trust at scale. So their website does more than just look 

Wes Towers 18:01
Yeah, so the couple of the first things we do when working with the client, and as you say most of the clients are trades and construction industry. 

Rich Bennett 18:09
good. 

Wes Towers 18:09
And so it really is about betting down precisely what makes them tick, what's uniquely them. So we really need to, so because we're so niche and we understand their industry is pretty well. That's the benefit of being niche. We've worked with similar businesses. When someone new comes on board, it's likely we've worked with their exact trade or construction or their specific. So we kind of know the rough industry, roughly, but we don't know precisely what makes them unique in that industry. So and they're the really important aspects because there's just so much noise out there and so much of the same. So it's only really that five or ten percent in your business and your messaging that really mates you, you, that needs to be shared and that's what's compelling and interesting. And so to, to find those little gems in their business, so having a conversation with the founder. Typically these businesses are founder led. So and there are reflection somewhat of their own personal values as the leader of the of the entity. So to sit with the; the founder and sometimes the easiest way to to to glean those aspects of who they are is to talk about the what they really dislike in the industry. And sometimes it's even about their competitors and these are their conversations you wouldn't have publicly because it all sounds pretty negative. And it sounds like you're having a go at their competitors, which you kind of are, but it's in their right context. 

Rich Bennett 19:37
Right. 

Wes Towers 19:38
So they're going to be the pros and cons that they do. But it's the, it's an easier conversation to have because we all know what we just doesn't, doesn't sit well with this and what the competitors might be doing wrong. But then we can look at the flip side of that and bring it in a positive light and so and come from a positive angle of what they actually do, which is the opposite to what they really don't like. So finding those little keys also the so that's the actual core message of what the message is, but then the voice, the style of communicating that. So having really clear guidelines of how we would write content for them because they all have their own way of communicating some of them are really, really short and concise and 

Rich Bennett 20:21
Right. 

Wes Towers 20:21
pragmatic. And that's, that's natural for the industry. But some are really down to earth and sort of gritty, I would say and some are more polished and professional and it depends on who they are but also their target market and so on. I mean, I've got one client who, who swears a lot, you can imagine down here in Australia, some of the Aussie Blokes, they're pretty rough in the industries we work with. But if we were to move now we don't, we don't use swear words in his content that we write for 

Rich Bennett 20:49
we 

Wes Towers 20:50
him, but keep it, we do keep it grounded in earthy and sort of that gritty feel. Because if we, if it was too polished, I mean, someone might read his material online and then when they finally meet him there would be a mismatch so that would, they would feel a lack of trust because something is inauthentic. So we really need to match who they are so that the natural flow by the time they meet the person in person, I'll talk to him on the phone. They're going to have a pretty abrupt call with him in a down-to-earth but he provides great value. He's just, you know, some of these trades and construction, you know, you can imagine how they are so, so, yeah. Getting those things right, the message but also the way in which they communicate and so that feeds into even how you style the So you want your message to sing as the priority and you don't want the design to distract from that call message, so, yeah, that's kind of how we're working with it these days. And so once we get the foundations right, A. I. really helps us to produce the content 

Rich Bennett 21:55
do 

Wes Towers 21:55
really quickly as a first rough draft and it is a rough draft that needs to be checked because there might be... 

Rich Bennett 22:01
Oh, absolutely. 

Wes Towers 22:02
Yeah, that we don't quite. 

Rich Bennett 22:04
A. I. is not perfect. 

Wes Towers 22:05
No, no, you can say also it's a crazy thing sometimes. And so for us, for us, one step to remove from the business as well. So we're not going to know precisely. We'll have a good understanding and we'll get it pretty close to right, but the business needs to check over it. 

Rich Bennett 22:23
All right, here's a crazy question for you and I don't even know if you can answer this or not because we've talked about A. I. on here a lot and I'll be honest if you I love it, I embraced it. You know, I learned how to use it. But with what the pick businesses that you're helping the construction, the trades and all that, do you know if any of them are actually using A. I. for their business in some way or another? 

Wes Towers 22:50
Yeah, definitely they are and it's interesting. I mean the back office stuff, yes absolutely, they're using 

Rich Bennett 22:58
Mm-hmm. 

Wes Towers 22:58
it in a broad range of ways. I mean, we're using it as an outsourced partner for their marketing and the websites and so on, but internally I was at a conference for the trades and construction last year, I think it was late last year. And some of the technology that's being introduced, so they showed a video of an Australian company with AI and Tech and Robotics. Somewhere else in the world I think it might have might have been Canada where they were building sort of building with bricks and the Robotics were building, putting the bricks out according to the plan, all being controlled from Australia. So this is where Tech is going and it's certainly in it's in infancy in a lot of ways, but it's perceivable that a lot of the construction will be changed, it was always thought, initially it was thought AI wouldn't hurt someone who has to pick up a hammer, you know, that always be that need to 

Rich Bennett 24:00
some 

Wes Towers 24:00
for someone. 

Rich Bennett 24:00
If the car industry, 

Wes Towers 24:02
yeah, yeah, so eventually, eventually who knows what's going to happen and it's changing so fast, I think every business needs to think about how it might affect them, eventually, and so just to be on the front foot, so just encouraging business leaders to just keep their finger on the pulse, so to speak, so they remain relevant and not as I said before, if you fear something, you tend to avoid it, well, that's the exact wrong thing to do in this day and age, you really need to stay on top of it. 

Rich Bennett 24:36
Oh, you have to, I mean, you look at it and I had somebody on we thought about it as AI's been around since I believe he said the 1940s, and it's just now ever since I guess you could say chat GPT, everybody thinks it's new or that it's exploding, but the thing is, if you learn how to use it, I think in on honesty, I mean, yeah, some people may lose their jobs because of it, but I also think there will be more jobs created because of it, 

Wes Towers 25:09
yeah, 

Rich Bennett 25:09
because you can't just rely on it doing everything for you. Talking about the robotics, what happens if they break down, you need somebody to fix them, you 

Wes Towers 25:20
yeah, 

Rich Bennett 25:20
know, they're not going to be perfect. You're still going to need somebody that knows how to swing that hammer, you know, use that wrench or whatever, 

Wes Towers 25:27
yeah, 

Rich Bennett 25:28
it, to me, I think it's, yeah, businesses that don't learn how to use it, I think it really, really going to be hurt. Well, god, you're a prime example. 

Wes Towers 25:40
Yeah, yeah, that's it. So, I mean, I had to learn early because Anna was really a blessing to have to be told what I was told to double down on all these things, but I mean, you're quite right, it is changing the way in which even employees will need to start thinking about what their support employment might look like. So, entrepreneurial people will naturally adapt and evolve because that's kind of how they're wired, but employed people kind of might not be that way inclined, but it really is a time to start thinking about those, what might shift and where the opportunities might be. So we're seeing it in Australia with people being laid off. I mean, there's, it's not just AI, it's, there's a cost of living crisis and that means 

Rich Bennett 26:31
Yeah, 

Wes Towers 26:32
less money being spent in all sorts of ways and therefore businesses are struggling and therefore employment is, is vulnerable to that. So, I mean, the banking industries that we've got four major banks here and it seems as though every, every second day we're hearing they're laying off people, particularly in the support roles, yeah. And support roles where, you know, that there might be on the phone or answering the the chats or what have you where AI is able to do a lot of that stuff, so that's just one industry and it seems to be picked up by the news, but it's probably every industry will eventually have, have that change, that So, that's quite right. So, I think, I think of it as employees having an entrepreneurial mindset to think about 

Rich Bennett 27:19
yeah, 

Wes Towers 27:19
where 

Rich Bennett 27:19
yes. 

Wes Towers 27:19
the opportunities are and evolve and take, you know, be the leader in the space you play in. 

Rich Bennett 27:26
What, you know, speaking of that because you're being an entrepreneur, you started this business 20 years ago. If you didn't talk to that person who told you that you're going to lose your business because of AI, and you didn't adapt to it, do you think you'd still be in business? 

Wes Towers 27:47
I probably still would be now that I probably wouldn't have boomed like it did. 

Rich Bennett 27:52
Right. 

Wes Towers 27:52
that's probably, yeah, so that certainly wouldn't have happened and I'll probably eventually would have picked up the stuff, but I would have been a slower adopter of the tech. So, 

Rich Bennett 28:03
like a day leet and a dollar short. 

Wes Towers 28:05
Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So you really want to be, it's ideal if you can be the first in your industry or certainly at the forefront of these things because other people are looking for guidance, because I mean it's so fast and so the opportunities, um, tomorrow are going to be greater than today and it's just, it's 

Rich Bennett 28:27
Yep. 

Wes Towers 28:28
going to continue because it's learning upon itself. So whilst you mentioned AI has been around a long time, now it's had a point where it's, it's, it's learning from itself so it's, it's that multiplying effect of, um, transformation and these opening up new challenges. So I've got a friend of mine who runs a company who does, uh, does software and it's, uh, customized for each client. It's kind of a high in, uh, software to run businesses and AI has helped his tech team build new, um, uh, versions and so on much faster. So once upon a time they might do an iteration or a version update, you know, every few months and, and 

Rich Bennett 29:12
mountain. 

Wes Towers 29:12
roll the 

Rich Bennett 29:12
Right. 

Wes Towers 29:13
And that, that would be fine. Well, because the tech is so, it's so quick and so fast, they can do things daily. So they can be rolling out new versions and so on daily, which they, so they're doing, they're doing that to a degree, they don't do it daily, but they could, um, the problem, that new problem is the support people who need to train the end users how to use the thing, uh, can't keep up because all of us, and you probably experience this yourself, you're using piece, a of software then the new version comes out and you can't find the thing that you used to always do because something's moved the buttons, changed. 

Rich Bennett 29:48
Yep. 

Wes Towers 29:49
The process change. So these processes are changing so fast and it's creating a whole bunch of new headaches because no one can keep up to support people, people can't keep up and therefore they're, they're finding it hard to train the, you know, support the people who are using the software. So these things, a man, there's so many, uh, challenges that arise and if people can think about those challenges and solve the problems, that's the only way to get rich is to find a problem and solve it for people. So, um, yeah, that, 

Rich Bennett 30:18
it is, 

Wes Towers 30:18
that's what the thing is, 

Rich Bennett 30:20
it is crazy because this seems like it's at least, at least three times a week where I'm seeing an update for, you know, for Google Chrome or Microsoft being even Windows. 

Wes Towers 30:33
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 30:33
It's like, you're seeing updates, and well, you got Microsoft and all, you do a Google search now. It's AI driven because you're not seeing the ads as much as you used to Google. 

Wes Towers 30:45
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 30:46
And you're not seeing all the links, but you're seeing more AI's point that stuff in. So, uh, God, 

Wes Towers 30:53
amazing. 

Rich Bennett 30:53
it's

Wes Towers 30:54
Yeah, that's been a matter. Google has been a massive shift because part of what we provide is it's always been SEO. I mentioned that before, so ranking as highly as you can say, the old school method and it's still somewhat relevant. 

Rich Bennett 31:07
But you're listening to the conversations with Rich Bennett. We'll be right back. With this unpredictable marital weather, I want to talk about someone I truly trust to keep my home cozy, eco, cool, HVAC. These folks are not just any HVAC service. They're a veteran owned business right here in Hartford County. Why do I trust them? Well, first off, they've been serving our community reliably since 2010. The owner, Stephen Kurdo and his team take immense pride in their rapid response time and exceptional customer service. They're always there when you need them, making sure you're never left in the heat or the cold being veteran owned. They bring that same dedication and integrity to their business that they brought to serve in our country. They're committed to excellence, always focusing on top quality service and the finest workmanship. So if you're looking for an expert this season to keep your home or business comfortable, Eco Cool HVAC a call at 443-324-9714. Again, it's 443-324-9714. 

Tell them Rich sent you. Or visit them online at ecocohvac.com. Trust me. With Eco Cool HVAC, you're in good hands. 

Wes Towers 32:40
The old school method was you'd choose a bunch of keywords, so phrases you wanted to rank for, and then you would create pages in your website to attract that, and you'd have the keyword and know the right places to signal to Google that that's what you're talking about and attract the traffic for that keyword. And so we could easily track the keywords, the ranking, and we could see the traffic, and we could then see the outcome being the return on the investment, so the conversion. And it was so simple and easy to track and we could see monthly improvement, monthly more traffic, more traffic, more traffic, well that's flipped because people are getting their answer on Google itself, so therefore there's less reason to click through to a website, and so that means there's less traffic to the website, and that was a difficult conversation to have with a bunch of clients that would work with for many years now, and so they were used to having more traffic every month, and that was easy Now things have flipped, they're getting their answer on Google, they're using ChatGPT, but the interesting part of it was, whilst there was less traffic to websites, it hasn't meant that people are losing business as a consequence. What it seems to be is people are researching outside of websites on ChatGPT, or Google, they're getting their answers when they're researching a particular topic, but if they need to buy something they need to transact with a company, they need to do either visit their physical shopfront, if they have one, if that's the kind of business they are, local business, they'll do that, or they'll need to go to their digital shopfront, which is their website, and that's where they'll check and verify 

Rich Bennett 34:27
to show. 

Wes Towers 34:27
how, who they say they are, they seem like the real deal, all those sorts of things. Look for reviews, etc, and make a buying decision, so they will still go to the website when they're ready to buy, it's just that they're not necessarily coming when they're just in that early research phase, so it's just changed the way things work, and so it's been conversations we've had to work with our clients through. 

Rich Bennett 34:52
Well you also see another thing you're seeing where people are looking for advice or not advice, well information from where... definitely a lot more arted devices, like I can't say her name because she'll come on, like Lexi, or the Google, whatever the Google devices, your phones, 

Wes Towers 35:13
yeah 

Rich Bennett 35:13
yeah yeah you have Lexi or Copilot on your phone, and even Google you can say, "Hey Google, where can I find a... the top rated roofing company or whatever, something like that?" And which, is that a CEO, because that 

Wes Towers 35:31
like... 

Rich Bennett 35:31
sounds 

Wes Towers 35:31
Well it, 

Rich Bennett 35:32
sound activated, what would that be considered? 

Wes Towers 35:34
Yes so we call it search everywhere optimization, because as you 

Rich Bennett 35:38
Search 

Wes Towers 35:38
rightly put, 

Rich Bennett 35:38
everywhere. 

Wes Towers 35:39
yeah yeah so you want to show up as a business center brand everywhere possibly, kind of all through the platforms you just mentioned. And the way to do that is all these platforms kind of work to the same way, and it's not as complex as what some people might make it sound. You just need the information published within the parameters of what you have control of, and these platforms are all pulling the information from online, that's where... what else are they doing? So you need your brand to talking about all the various topics so thinking about conversations because people have conversations when they're speaking to their phone for example. And so to touch on all those various topics you mentioned roofing, if there were someone who had a roof issue, so you know the roofing had come off and it was through a storm and they were getting some leaking or something like that, will they need an answer right away? And so if your website answers a quick solution for the emergency 

situation, that they can solve themselves, but ideally to position you as the expert so that they can get you out in a hurry to fix the roof, that's the idea. So if you've got content published within your website that addresses that need, that specific need, then your surface, because platforms are fantastic at finding the best information to solve someone's problem. If your website is doing that, then you'll show up, your brand will be recognised, they might not need to visit your website because they'll get the answer there and then, but hopefully they'll make a phone call or you know emergency, they'd make a phone call and get you out right away to fix the problem. 

Rich Bennett 37:23
Yeah, with businesses, especially let's go with ones that are not using you because to me they're they're making a mistake. Having worked with hundreds of businesses and trades and construction. What's the single biggest, probably most common mistake you see them making right now, that is causing them the waste money online? 

Wes Towers 37:49
Yeah, the, well there's, the probably the most common mistake we see is that when, so, we're focused mostly on websites and we use other tools to bring people to the website, but they're often really confusing. And so, and this is caused by a, a business will launch a website, say today, and it'll be perfect and it'll be on, on message and exactly what, you know, a reflection of what the company does, but businesses evolve so fast, so they change their service offering, or they introduce new services or products, and then they start putting the new information within the website, but they haven't removed anything, and so it just becomes a big beast of lots of confusion, and a confused mind can't make a decision, so the website's not 

Rich Bennett 38:34
Yeah. 

Wes Towers 38:34
clear and concise and compelling for your main sales pages, then the people do a hard, hard job of making an inquiry, 'cause it's just not quite sure. So that's the biggest thing you've got to be clear, concise, compelling, and make it super easy to make contact with you as a, as a business, and so they, you know, the, the, uh, opportunities can flow through from that, so that's your main website, but then on the web pages, but then on the flip side, you want to fuel as much information as you're possibly canning to your website, because that's what AI will pick up and clean from, and they'll surface the right information at the right time, so that's where you would use a section in, in your website, news, blog, uh, insights, some people might call it, and that's where you can fuel lots of information. No one's going to read all of that information, but it's there to, to help the, the end at the right time but 

Rich Bennett 39:24
Right. 

Wes Towers 39:25
also to, to fuel, it's training AI. So, um, that's, uh, it's there, it's kind of the polar opposites in terms of what you're trying to achieve, the clear and concise compelling, and then the rich, meaningful, substantial content, um, and you've got to structure it in a way that works well for your business. So I think people get that, people get that confused, so their website gets too messy and they start to put too much into the basic, the main pages, the home page, et cetera, and confuse everybody and don't get the inquiries they could have. 

Rich Bennett 39:59
I don't understand why, and you see this have a lot of businesses, though have the website, it's like they put it up and forget about it, and they don't, they'll have a blog on there, but they don't update it. I don't understand, or some of them are trying to go with a, I want to say like a vlog video, but strictly on social media and not on their website. Do you think they're making a big mistake there? 

Wes Towers 40:26
Yeah, it's, it's, it's just, uh, often the way, so we're launching, sometimes we'll just launch the website for them and build a structure so they can quickly and easily add news, uh, news, 

Rich Bennett 40:37
Right. 

Wes Towers 40:37
or blog, um, for them. And they've got the best intentions to do. So, internally, they've got the capability, but they just don't have the time off. Often it's just, uh, it's a time issue that, you know, we all get busy, and so you see this all that, we see this all the time. So people want us to build the website and then they'll take it from there, but then they'll get, you know, a month in and they'll publish everywhere. And then, uh, other priorities pop up and then there's nothing publishing. So that, that looks terrible, doesn't it? So you, all of a sudden, you think, Oh, they've stopped publishing. Are they still trading it? What's going on here? So something is not quite right. So yeah, it's about building a system that you can realistically sustain, uh, and, and follow through, um, repetition and frequency are really important. So the, so the doing the same thing, uh, and building, uh, your audience, that repetition and the frequency, sticking to a schedule that, um, a reasonable schedule, I mean, it's ideal if you could go weekly, for example, if you could stick to that, but if, if you can't realistically do that, think about can we, can we commit to monthly publishing something new monthly to the website? And as a local business, that, you've only got to be, if you're, if you're a local business, so you're a local, uh, electrician so you can only service your, your hometown. We only need to be better than your few competitors. So, um, you know, once a month might be perfectly fine, depending on where you are. If you're in a huge city, well, then you might need to dial it up a bit because there's so many more competitors and they might be pushing it harder 

Rich Bennett 42:13
than you are. You up live 360 all for something. And I am a big fan of WordPress. You, I hear a lot of people say, I don't know WordPress socks. You need to use square space. You need to use wicks or whatever. You guys, and I, I've never seen anybody offer this. You have a WordPress maintenance plan. Explain That. 

Wes Towers 42:40
Yes, so that's, that's, it's so true. So we will offer that always to the clients. We build the word, we build all our websites in WordPress because it's, it's so many advantages to it. So it's open source. So this and so it's, it's free. There's some additional plugins and so on from that 

Rich Bennett 43:00
Mm-hmm. 

Wes Towers 43:01
you can purchase at low cost. But there's so much flexibility in it and the advantage being open source as opposed to proprietary software is you can take the website to another developer. If you if you didn't like us for some reason, you could take it to another developer and have it further worked on or you could work on it yourself if you're that way inclined. It's yours and you've got the flexibility, but when you work in a proprietary software, we see this often and it's sometimes it's really cheap to get started. But there might be hidden costs or if you want to do something additional 

Rich Bennett 43:33
right. 

Wes Towers 43:33
The cost really rack up and you kind of locked in because you can only use the platform you're in. So WordPress is great. It's got that so much flexibility. So many plugins that you can use. The challenge with that is the plugins are all created by different people and sometimes they conflict and clash and sometimes they're no longer supported and all those headaches. The software is always changing and people think we'll build the website and it'll be fine until we want to change it. But that's not really true because even the browsers are changing and devices are changing. So things are always changing outside of your control. So it does need maintenance from a security and performance standpoint. So we do that for our clients. We even take on other people's WordPress websites and we'll maintain them for them. So bring them up to speed up. Usually when they come on board, they've got a whole heap of software that's outdated and things might be broken. So we can do that whole cleanup. 

Rich Bennett 44:38
Oh yeah. 

Wes Towers 44:39
Yeah. It happens all the time. It's 

Rich Bennett 44:44
one of the reasons I got away from doing web design. As a sole entrepreneur, you can only do so much. Yeah. And it got to the point where some of the websites that I was taking care of, which was all WordPress, it was so outdated. I'm like, yeah, I'm going to have to refer you to somebody else. I just can't do it anymore. 

Wes Towers 45:05
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 45:05
Well this is the podcast too. 

Wes Towers 45:09
Yeah. Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 45:10
What other kind of services do you guys offer? 

Wes Towers 45:13
So yeah, so the core things, the website design. So developing a new website in WordPress, the SEO, so search everywhere optimization, as you say, the website maintenance. So it's all kind of aligned to those same core principles. So with the search everywhere optimization, a massive part of that is to write that content for the client, for the blog and the news or the insights. And so to dig deep into who they are so we can get that to them. And most of the time it's close to perfect. Sometimes I've got one client who needs everything checked by legal. I don't know why, but you know, I'm not sure if it's everything, but they get it internally. Yeah. So those things they need to check it because we just don't know that side of things. But, yeah, so just finding ways to get them found on all the platforms and all the AI platform. We had a great client. We didn't do the initial website, but we took it on with the maintenance, as you said, and did some SEO for them and he got found 140,000 dollar contract just recently. Wow. Yeah. It's through chat. gbt. So someone was having a conversation with their phone looking for the very best consultant. He's a consultant. A specific type of consultant and it was a plumbing company looking for someone and they said who is the very best in Australia for this consulting service. And he popped up and chat. gbt said he was the best. And so that power of that one. 

Rich Bennett 46:56
Wow! 

Wes Towers 46:57
brand mentioned and him personally. It's pretty cool. He wouldn't have known where they came from. He had to have that conversation and talk to them and say, "Hey, how'd you find out about us?" That's really important to do because it's not linear anymore and people will get the answer on device. There's no way to track that because they haven't clicked through to your website. I don't think I don't even know if they ever visited his website, but his website fueled the answer because that's where the answer came from. Whilst people didn't, a human didn't visit his website necessarily. They probably did. I don't know, but the answer that got them to pick up the phone and call him was right there in church. 

Rich Bennett 47:41
Wes, I always ask my guest for a feel-good story with what they've done. You just told us one. 

Wes Towers 47:49
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 47:50
That is awesome. Holy cow, man. 

Wes Towers 47:53
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 47:53
Yeah. Wow. 20 plus years ago, first of all, what the hell made you get into this feel? 

Wes Towers 48:03
Kind of in a lot of ways by accident, the main window is back in in-hawkschool and you're thinking about your career path and there's a career, there was a career counsellor at school. Working through them and thinking about things, I chose to go into graphic design/multimedia at uni. Websites weren't a thing really back, I mean there were websites, but it wasn't as if I wasn't looking at websites back then in the 90s and most businesses didn't have websites. So I got into graphic design/multimedia at uni and then got my first job in marketing in Sydney in an award-winning marketing company in Sydney. I actually found them in a awards book published in there and so I called them up and ended up getting an interview and the job. But they never designed a website, so this is how far marketing is evolved. That was the year 2000 in Sydney Olympics, yeah so fantastic year to be. 

Rich Bennett 49:03
Oh 

Wes Towers 49:03
god. Yeah so I moved up there and they only had one computer connected to the internet through a dial up modem, so this 

Rich Bennett 49:12
my 

Wes Towers 49:12
yeah man so marketing has changed so much, but they won a job, I don't know how they won it, but they won a job to do a website and they said right well you're the young guy you better figure out how to build this site because we've already sold it and so they were great and gave me plenty of time to figure out how to build that site and so from there I became their web guy and also doing their graphic design but whenever web opportunity came up did that and eventually started my own business and initially providing graphic design/websites, But then moved because when you're starting out freelance you just take whatever work you can get because you 

Rich Bennett 49:53
yeah 

Wes Towers 49:53
need to put on the table, but eventually sort of dropped more and more so the graphic design of brochures and flyers and all that stuff and just moved to websites and focus purely on that because that's enough to keep, as you say like it things change so fast you can't, it's hard to keep on top of if you spread yourself to thin with other services, so you know it softly is changing so far, so we just became specialists in websites and then eventually specialists in our niche which is trades and construction, we've got legacy clients in other fields and that's perfectly fine, it's still, we've 

Rich Bennett 50:28
right. 

Wes Towers 50:28
had them for a long time but moving forward we're pushing further and further into the niche in which we serve the best, so yeah. 

Rich Bennett 50:38
Okay so with with the growth of AI and social media, do you think it's important for any and I don't care what kind of business it is? Do you think it's important for a business to have a website, even if it's a one-page website? 

Wes Towers 50:54
Absolutely and the sooner you can build it the better because the age of a website is, builds a level of authority, so Google will look at how long a website's been around. So if you're really starting lean and you've got nothing invest into your business I would say just build a simple one-page website and do it yourself if you can, just so you've got, getting that domain name in the name of your website aged, so that is a really good factor, it'll help you in the long term, but definitely you need a website, even just like the person who showed up in chat GBT and the end client didn't necessarily visit the website, but that information was pulled from his website, so you need to be thinking publishing, in the areas you can control, so you 

Rich Bennett 51:45
to 

Wes Towers 51:46
control the website, it's for your messaging and it's great to be in social media too and we certainly encourage that. because, you know, there's audiences out there, uhm, but you really want to draw the people from the socials into your world, which you control, which is your website. And ideally into a conversation with a real person to make the sales inquiry and the sale and, and all that stuff, so. Yeah, definitely websites. I don't think they're going to go away any time soon. They're a real trust builder as well. So-- 

Rich Bennett 52:19
Yeah. 

Wes Towers 52:19
I mean, it's if you're going to make a massive transaction, which is some of the construction companies we're working with. They're big transactions. People are going, going to check out thoroughly everything they can about you and your company before they, before they buy. So they're going to look at your website, they're going to look at reviews, they're going to do their due diligence. So if you didn't have a website at all, that, that I believe would be a massive alarm bell for a lot of people to say, 'Ooh, are they really here for the long term? know, here in Australia, yeah, legit. So lots of construction companies, for example, have gone out of business. And that's left lots of people in the lurch as well, you know. So it's really sad. So houses being half built and then all of a sudden the business collapses. And they're in a world of pain. And so there's that fear factor. And people want to make a good decision that they're hiring someone who's going to be there and finish the job. So they're really going to 

Rich Bennett 53:17
Yeah. 

Wes Towers 53:18
check 

Rich Bennett 53:18
Yup. 

Wes Towers 53:18
out, make sure these are solid people who are going to finish the task that we've hired and paid for. So, yeah, website really helps to build that trust. 

Rich Bennett 53:29
I won't do business. I won't do hire a business if they don't have a website. 

Wes Towers 53:35
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 53:35
I just refused to because, and here's the other thing, a lot of people that say they don't need a website because social media is the new website. One of the things they don't realize, and you mentioned it with that company using chat GPT. Somebody searched your chat GPT and that's how they found them. AI all you're searching now is done by AI basically with the Google and all that. Guess what? One of the things they cannot pick up from is Facebook, X, Twitter or whatever it's called now because that's all requires a login and it's not it can't pull from that stuff. So there really isn't SEO for it. So you're hurting yourself if you don't have a website. 

Wes Towers 54:17
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 54:17
God, I don't understand why businesses don't do that. 

Wes Towers 54:20
Yeah, and so the way I encourage people to do it and that's the exact same way we do it is, so I'll publish, I'll write something new for the website every week in the new section there. And so what happens from that is so it's a new set of ideas and concepts and it's written by me. But then my son will take that. He manages our social now. And so he'll take that and rework that into social media posts. So it's obviously repurposed and the content is rewritten. And he uses AI to help him consolidate those thoughts into something suitable for the social 

Rich Bennett 54:59
Yeah. 

Wes Towers 55:00
platforms. And he'll create the creative in Canva and so on and have that scheduled in each week. So we've got fresh content. It's one set of ideas. So it's like a concept for that one week. And not everyone's going to see all the content anyway, but it's that one set of ideas published everywhere. So that syndication of information really to draw people back into my world, into our world as a brand. But then things like this, this is really cool too. So this is a collaboration podcasts. People should make more of opportunity because 

Rich Bennett 55:35
yes. 

Wes Towers 55:36
Yeah. It's my audience. It's your audience. We're going to share it. Fire and wide. You're all of a sudden you've doubled your audience straight away because you've got two people sharing sharing the podcast and hopefully it's valuable for a lot of people but sharing it. Fire and wide and you're opening it yourself up to so many opportunities. 

Rich Bennett 55:54
This is unclear. As you said that because I've always told businesses they need to get on podcasts. Get the word out there. And one of the things I always tell my sponsors or or or some of our business that wants to become a sponsor. I explained to them how the podcast is in over 110 different countries. They're like, well, who cares? I'm only doing business right here. You don't. If you don't want your name known throughout the world, your business known throughout the world. Something's wrong. You should not be in business because guess what? People move from other countries over to here and vice versa. I mean my best friend who lives one of my best friends who lives around the corner. His son lives over in Australia now. Yeah. So it's yeah. It's. God, but that's that's a whole that's a whole other 

Wes Towers 56:47
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 56:47
podcast. All right. So Wes, before I get to my last question. Oh, number one, I don't even do this. Tell everybody the website how they can get 

Wes Towers 56:56
you. 

Rich Bennett 56:56
in touch with 

Wes Towers 56:56
Oh sure, yeah. 

Rich Bennett 56:57
do business 

Wes Towers 56:58
with you. Yeah, uplift360.com. au, Australians have the. au. So yeah, from there, I mean, there are other socials you'll find from there. So that's cool. And even my personal LinkedIn, I know not everyone connects on LinkedIn with strangers, but I do. I'm happy to connect there. So 

Rich Bennett 57:16
if there are business, he should. 

Wes Towers 57:18
Yeah, absolutely. 

Rich Bennett 57:22
So anything you like to add before I get to the latest question, 

Wes Towers 57:26
not really. Oh, so if people do visit the website, if there's something that resonates with the conversation today or what have you, you can book a meeting with me, strategy call, so I love chatting to people. So it's, there's no sales pressure or anything like that. We can have a conversation. Maybe I can give you some tips on your own journey as well. 

Rich Bennett 57:48
All right, I want to see how good you are. I have a hundred different questions here. Pick a number between one and 100. And I want to. And I'm going to share a question. Let's see if you pick one that aligns before we've been talking about today. 

Wes Towers 58:02
Oh, wow, 77. 

Rich Bennett 58:04
70. Why 77? 

Wes Towers 58:07
I just, sevens my favorite number. I'm not sure why. 

Rich Bennett 58:12
I was going to turn it backwards, but it'll still be the same. 

Wes Towers 58:15
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 58:15
Oh, that is a good question actually. So what's a habit you're trying to break and what makes it so difficult? 

Wes Towers 58:29
I'm trying to drink less if I'm perfectly honest. 

Rich Bennett 58:34
That's a good thing to do. 

Wes Towers 58:36
Yeah, I mean, it's, I suppose, and it's probably a challenge for all my friends as well. I suppose being in business, it can be high pressure and high stakes and it's hard to unwind sometimes. So and the social aspect obviously, there's us all use like a drink. I'm sure other people in the world do too. So, yeah, that's something I'm trying to break. Have you heard of Kava? 

Rich Bennett 59:06
Kava. 

Wes Towers 59:07
Kava is a it's a drink from it comes from Fiji. My one comes from Fiji. It's made from a root perfectly natural and and people have it as an alcohol instead of alcohol. So it gives you a yeah, it gives you a 

Rich Bennett 59:26
So 

Wes Towers 59:27
sl--. 

Rich Bennett 59:27
what they're using to make non-alcoholic alcohol, right? 

Wes Towers 59:30
Yeah, yeah. So it gives you a sl--. 

Rich Bennett 59:32
Yeah, 

Wes Towers 59:32
Alcohol type buzz, but it doesn't, it doesn't make you wiped out. You can't get wiped 

Rich Bennett 59:37
right. 

Wes Towers 59:37
out it, but just it's it's not soothing, relaxing kind of end-of-day ritual. So swapping out alcohol with Kava has, has been really good for me. It means I wake up a little more refreshed for sure. 

Rich Bennett 59:50
Don't have that headache. 

Wes Towers 59:52
Yeah, that's right. 

Rich Bennett 59:54
I heard of because me and my a couple of my neighbors here, every so often we'll do a happy hour out front and we like to we like bourbon, we like whiskeys, but my one neighbor doesn't drink. So I asked I said, hey, I found some non-alcoholic whiskey. You know, I was wondering if you want me to get it so you can have the old-fashioned like we do. But he just doesn't like the taste of whiskey. That's why he done or he doesn't like the taste of alcohol period. That's why he doesn't drink. I said, oh, well, then I ain't gonna waste money on that. But I heard a lot of I see a lot of reviews and I've heard a lot of you mentioned that Kava. I've heard a lot of people say they like it. 

Wes Towers 1:00:39
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 1:00:40
and I you can make well, what's the big thing they're making now is mock tails. 

Wes Towers 1:00:45
Yeah, 

Rich Bennett 1:00:45
or cocktails, but they just don't have the alcohol in it. 

Wes Towers 1:00:48
Yeah. Yeah, I think it's the only way it's the only way to break up is to replace it with something else, I think. 

Rich Bennett 1:00:55
Yeah. 

Wes Towers 1:00:55
So that's the way I've gone about. It's really, some people don't like the taste. It's made from a root, so it's a kind of an earthy taste, but I quite like it. So yeah, that's a little bit. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:06
Everything teaks a while to get used to. I mean, one of the things I fell in love with, and the first time I got it, I had no idea what it was. I went to a coffee shop and I don't know how it came to be, but I got a matcha latte. I didn't know what matcha was. And the girls like, well, let me make the matcha first to show you, because you may not want it if you look at it. Okay. And it was that it was that baby poop green. 

Wes Towers 1:01:34
Yeah. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:34
And I said, okay, I'll try it. I feel like I have matcha every day now. 

Wes Towers 1:01:41
That's super 

Rich Bennett 1:01:42
I love it. 

Wes Towers 1:01:42
healthy for you, too, yeah. That's 

Rich Bennett 1:01:44
it 

Wes Towers 1:01:44
The 

Rich Bennett 1:01:44
is. 

Wes Towers 1:01:44
anti-oxidance and so on. Yeah, I've had that before, 

Rich Bennett 1:01:47
Yeah. 

Wes Towers 1:01:47
too. 

Rich Bennett 1:01:48
But it hasn't put hair on my head. And neither do chia seeds. I put chia seeds on my head and stood in the ring. That didn't help either, Wes. 

Wes Towers 1:01:57
Yeah, no, it looks like it's put hair on your chin and probably other places too, maybe. 

Rich Bennett 1:02:02
It's definitely put it on the chin. That's for sure. West I want to thank you so much, man It's been a true honor and a pleasure. I have a funny feeling. We're gonna be talking again sometime

Wes Towers 1:02:13
Yeah, great rich. I've really enjoyed it. It's been good fun

Rich Bennett 1:02:16
Thank you for listening to the conversations with rich Bennett I hope you enjoyed today's episode and learned something from it as I did if you'd like to hear more Conversations like this be sure to subscribe to the podcast so you never miss a episode And if you have a moment, I'd love it if you could leave a review It helps us reach more listeners and share more incredible stories Don't forget to connect with us on social media or visit our website at Conversations with rich Bennett dot com for updates giveaways and more until next time take care Be kind and keep the conversations going You know, it takes a lot to put a podcast together, together and my sponsors help add a lot But I also have some supporters that actually help me when it comes to the editing software the hosting and so forth There's a lot that goes into putting this together So I want to thank them and if you can please Please visit their websites visit their businesses support them however you can so please visit the following Full full circle boards Nobody does charcootery like full circle boards visit them at full circle boards dot com Sincerely, Sincerely Sincerely Sawyer photography, live in the moment. They'll capture it visit them at sincerely Sawyer dot com the Jopitan Lines Serve in the community since 1965 visit them at Jopitan Lines Club dot org and don't forget the E at the end of Jopitan because they're extraordinary