Season 1

#34 - Interview with a Longstanding Side B Ally, Misty Irons

Sept. 27, 2023

Misty Irons has been part of the faith and sexuality conversation for over 20 years. We were honored to talk to her about her journey with Side B, being an ally to queer people, and what an “accommodationist” view of Side A …

#33 - Asking Better Questions with Oriented to Love’s Kristyn Komarnicki

Sept. 6, 2023

Kristyn Komarnicki started Oriented to Love 13 years ago, almost accidentally, in an effort to include the voices of gay people who weren’t present in Christian spaces that she was involved in. Since then, this program, unde…

#32 - TJ Participated in an “Oriented to Love” Dialogue--Here Are His Thoughts

Aug. 16, 2023

In the spring, TJ attended a small dialogue, Oriented to Love (OTL), sponsored by the Christians for Social Action. OTL hosts thoughtful conversations across difference, specifically among Christians, both queer and straight…

#31 - "You Keep Using that Word..." - Greg Coles & Erin Phelps on How Sexual Orientation Is Socially Constructed - Live at Revoice 2023

July 26, 2023

Hey there! We recorded an episode at Revoice 2023—a conference supporting Christians who are sexual minorities seeking to live out their faith according to a traditional, biblical sexual ethic. We loved doing this live episo…

#30 - Imagining the Commons with Brendan Johnson

July 5, 2023

If God calls us to seek the common good of our communities—what does that mean in real life? The commons , a shared community place or resource, is a critical idea in this conversation. Even better: it’s not just an idea; it…

#29 - Weigh and Consider the World: Joel Carini on Nature, Truth, and Side B

June 14, 2023

We (TJ and David) first connected with philosopher Joel Carini from a few of his articles on a reformed theology of same-sex attraction. In this episode, Joel joined us for a conversation around various Christian contexts, n…

#28 - Ariel on Being a Friend to Side B

May 24, 2023

Ariel is a friend of this podcast and—more importantly—a friend to many humans, both queer and straight. We have seen her intuitive care and fierce kindness shine in her support of queer friends and family. We asked her to s…

#27 - A Wager Like Pascal's: Paul-Anthony Turner on Side A Sexuality

May 3, 2023

Paul-Anthony Turner is a gay Christian philosopher and pastor who used to be Side B (holding a traditional Christian sexual ethic of chastity in opposite-sex marriage or a celibate vocation) and is now Side A (affirming same…

#26 - Make Sides Not War: Why the “Sides” Framework Still Supports the Sexuality Conversation

April 12, 2023

Within Christian circles on the faith and sexuality, we (especially Side B people) spend a lot of time talking about different “sides” and where we stand. Some people think we shouldn’t even talk about sides at all. While th…

#25 - Ethnicity: Where Do We Come From? Why Does It Matter?

March 22, 2023

Ethnicity, race, nationalism… Just bringing up those words can raise the temperature of the room. These topics intersect and affect our daily lives in ways that are so important—how do we, as Christians, engage these topics …

#24 - African Voices: Mwendia Shares on Same-Sex Attraction in Kenya

March 1, 2023

We are so excited to welcome Mwendia Steve Kiengu to the podcast as we begin highlighting perspectives from Africa! Mwendia is a seminary student in Kenya who’s grown up with same-sex attraction. He talks with TJ about the A…

#23 - Side B Response to Side A: Our 2022 Guests

Feb. 8, 2023

We (David and TJ) are Side B, and we care about engaging people across differences. Last year we interviewed three Side A folks from different perspectives: #12 - JP’s Story: Moving Away from Side B #13 - Ordained, Gay, and …

#22 - Unity and Differences in Side B

Jan. 18, 2023

Contrary to (some) opinions, those of us who consider ourselves “Side B” on Christian sexuality don’t agree on everything, nor is there a shared “declaration of theology” document that we can all agree on. What ideas unite a…

#21 - Tate's Story: Growing Up Gay in Texas

Dec. 28, 2022

Tate grew up in small-town, Bible-belt Texas before attending “the absolute worst of the worst” university that was “too liberal or too secular.” We (David and TJ) talk with Tate about his story of coming out, growing in fai…

#20 - How Should We Then Live with Eros? Part 3 with Kathryn Mogk Wagner

Dec. 9, 2022

True love means… what?? There are many answers to that question, and in this episode, we’re just talking about some of them. In part 3 of our conversation with medieval literature scholar Kathryn Mogk Wagner, we reflect on s…

#19 - A History of Romance in the West—Part 2 with Kathryn Mogk Wagner

Dec. 8, 2022

But not that kind of western romance… Pop quiz: Which of the following reasons is a good reason to get married to someone? Because your family or social circle wants you to Because you sexually desire that person (or are alr…

#18 - What Is Love, Anyway? Defining Eros—Part 1 with Kathryn Mogk Wagner

Dec. 7, 2022

What does it mean to love your best friend? Is it the same as the kind of love you have for your spouse or romantic partner? How about the kind of love that God gives us, or that we can give God? These are questions that peo…

#17 - Giacomo Sanfilippo on the Asceticism of Same-Sex Love

Nov. 16, 2022

Note: This podcast includes content suitable for adult audiences; listener discretion is advised. Giacomo was a great conversation partner for building understanding across differences and investigating a theology of same-se…

#16 - Gifts of Being Queer - Part 2 with Michelle and Will

Oct. 26, 2022

Michelle and Will are two friends who identify as asexual and queer, and we (David and TJ) wanted to hear their take on what’s good about being queer. Before that, we spent a little more time reflecting on those topics ourse…

#15 - What Is Queerness? Christianity's Subverting Influence - Part 1 with Michelle and Will

Oct. 5, 2022

Join us as we (David, TJ, and our friends Will and Michelle—who are asexual/queer) explore ideas of what “queerness” means. While we can’t come to one single definition, we hit on a kaleidoscope of topics as we explore the w…

#14 - TJ Interviews Lucas: Side B, Conservative Protestantism, Multicultural Background, and More

Sept. 14, 2022

TJ talks with Lucas, a friend from the Midwest (US) who experiences same-sex attraction and generally identifies with Side B but finds understanding among several “sides” of the Christian debate. We see Lucas’s story offerin…

BONUS: A Virtual Tour of TJ's Experience at Pride 2022

Sept. 7, 2022

In June 2022, TJ went to a Pride Festival for the first time, and he reflects on his experience, with alternating bemusement and critique.

#13 - Ordained, Gay, and Seeking Liberation: A Chat with Rev. Tyler Sit

Aug. 24, 2022

David and TJ sit down with Rev. Tyler Sit of New City Church in the Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA. Tyler represents a “Side A” pastoral perspective as an ordained minister for the United Methodist Church in the US. In this wid…

#12 - A Conversation with JP: A Story of Moving Away from Side B

Aug. 3, 2022

David and TJ get together with friend JP from the Twin Cities. We talk about JP’s movement away from “Side B” to a more agnostic and/or “Side A” position. We also get into JP’s experience with the “ex-gay” movement, people, …

BONUS: TJ and David on the 6 Moral Foundations in Side B Sexuality

July 20, 2022

In this bonus episode, TJ and David review the 6 universal moral foundations from Jonathan Haidt’s research in light of their views—and others’—on Christian queer sexuality. This is a follow-up to last week’s discussion, so …

#11 - Fractures in Our Moral Foundation | Applying Haidt to Sexual Ethic Divides

July 13, 2022

TJ and David dig into Dr. Jonathan Haidt’s social, cultural, and psychological research on the universal moral foundations, based on Haidt’s book The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion, i.e.…

#10 - Pride Revisited & Summed Up

June 22, 2022

After verbally processing on our last podcast, we read and listened to various perspectives that differ from ours and are coming back to discuss it again. This can be considered a summary of sorts of the last podcast, with s…

#9 - Porch Podcast on Pride Month

June 1, 2022

What to do about the Pride Month? Reject? Celebrate? A little of both? TJ and David take a stab at complexifying this simple question. (rough cut audio while sitting on the porch)

#8 - On Covenant Brotherhood, with Special Reference to TJ’s Covenant

Jan. 18, 2022

In this episode, we, joined by our friend and project manager/editor Alaina, talk about covenant brotherhood, via the particular instantiation of TJ’s covenant brotherhood/s with four brothers. TJ shares his general story, w…

Recommendation: Gay Identity, Gentile Christians, and Revoice: Misty Irons

Nov. 24, 2021

Recommendation for episode #916 on the podcast Theology in the Raw. https://www.prestonsprinkle.com/theology-in-the-raw/916-misty-irons Preston Sprinkle gives good introductory thoughts on "gay" identity before sharing an in…

#7 - David's Story | Revoice, "Coming Out", Facing Tensions, Finding Stability

Nov. 4, 2021

David Frank shares about his "coming out" story at church and with family, reflecting on formative influences on his sexuality, and how God has established him in a Side B life that is committed to sewing into community. ___…

#6 - TJ's Story | Dysphoria, Queerness, Contextualization, and Conviction

Oct. 14, 2021

TJ Espinoza shares the history of his personal understanding about his own sexuality, and how God has lead him through study, community, and spiritual experience towards a Side B conviction, even if it leaves him with many l…

#5 - You Say Gay-bye, and I Say Hello... | Terminology and Its Discontents

Sept. 14, 2021

David and TJ get into one of the most commonly controversial topics currently regarding the Side B conversation and Side B Christians – terminology! We talk through some common reason why contemporary queer Christians may us…

#4 - The PCA Votes on "Gay/SSA Christian" Pastors

Sept. 8, 2021

David and TJ discuss the goals, statuses, and potential impacts of several overtures (i.e. amendments) that were brought to the PCA national conversation in June/July of 2021. The Presbyterian Church in America's (PCA's) Gen…

#3 - A-B-Y-X | 4 Sides on SSA/Gay Sexuality

Sept. 8, 2021

David and TJ describe the “Sides” terminology/heuristic device used among many Christians engaged in the conversation around sexuality and Christianity in the US. They describe the most common fourfold system - A, B, Y, X – …

#2 - Art, Jesus, and 'Queering' Your Perspective | Chat with Raye

Aug. 17, 2021

TJ and David have a lovely time chatting with Raye! Raye is a Side B woman, who shares her experience growing up in a conservative Christian home and church, and later comes to terms with her tilted perspective. At times she…

#1 - The Pull to Side A

June 29, 2021

Communion & Shalom's first episode, where TJ and David discuss why many straight Christians feel pulled to "Side A", an affirming progressive sexual ethics perspective (i.e. approval of gay marriage/sex). TJ and David discus…