Episodes

#22 - Unity and Differences in Side B

Jan. 18, 2023

Contrary to (some) opinions, those of us who consider ourselves “Side B” on Christian sexuality don’t agree on everything, nor is there a shared “declaration of theology” document that we can all agree on. What ideas unite a…

#21 - Tate's Story: Growing Up Gay in Texas

Dec. 28, 2022

Tate grew up in small-town, Bible-belt Texas before attending “the absolute worst of the worst” university that was “too liberal or too secular.” We (David and TJ) talk with Tate about his story of coming out, growing in fai…

#20 - How Should We Then Live with Eros? Part 3 with Kathryn Mogk Wagner

Dec. 9, 2022

True love means… what?? There are many answers to that question, and in this episode, we’re just talking about some of them. In part 3 of our conversation with medieval literature scholar Kathryn Mogk Wagner, we reflect on s…

#19 - A History of Romance in the West—Part 2 with Kathryn Mogk Wagner

Dec. 8, 2022

But not that kind of western romance… Pop quiz: Which of the following reasons is a good reason to get married to someone? Because your family or social circle wants you to Because you sexually desire that person (or are alr…

#18 - What Is Love, Anyway? Defining Eros—Part 1 with Kathryn Mogk Wagner

Dec. 7, 2022

What does it mean to love your best friend? Is it the same as the kind of love you have for your spouse or romantic partner? How about the kind of love that God gives us, or that we can give God? These are questions that peo…

#17 - Giacomo Sanfilippo on the Asceticism of Same-Sex Love

Nov. 16, 2022

Note: This podcast includes content suitable for adult audiences; listener discretion is advised. TJ and David talked with Giacomo Sanfilippo, who is an Orthodox Christian and the founding editor of the blog Orthodoxy in Dia…

#16 - Gifts of Being Queer - Part 2 with Michelle and Will

Oct. 26, 2022

Michelle and Will are two friends who identify as asexual and queer, and we (David and TJ) wanted to hear their take on what’s good about being queer. Before that, we spent a little more time reflecting on those topics ourse…

#15 - What Is Queerness? Christianity's Subverting Influence - Part 1 with Michelle and Will

Oct. 5, 2022

Join us as we (David, TJ, and our friends Will and Michelle—who are asexual/queer) explore ideas of what “queerness” means. While we can’t come to one single definition, we hit on a kaleidoscope of topics as we explore the w…

#14 - TJ Interviews Lucas: Side B, Conservative Protestantism, Multicultural Background, and More

Sept. 14, 2022

TJ talks with Lucas, a friend from the Midwest (US) who experiences same-sex attraction and generally identifies with Side B but finds understanding among several “sides” of the Christian debate. We see Lucas’s story offerin…

BONUS: A Virtual Tour of TJ's Experience at Pride 2022

Sept. 7, 2022

In June 2022, TJ went to a Pride Festival for the first time, and he reflects on his experience, with alternating bemusement and critique.

#13 - Ordained, Gay, and Seeking Liberation: A Chat with Rev. Tyler Sit

Aug. 24, 2022

David and TJ sit down with Rev. Tyler Sit of New City Church in the Twin Cities, Minnesota, USA. Tyler represents a “Side A” pastoral perspective as an ordained minister for the United Methodist Church in the US. In this wid…

#12 - A Conversation with JP: A Story of Moving Away from Side B

Aug. 3, 2022

David and TJ get together with friend JP from the Twin Cities. We talk about JP’s movement away from “Side B” to a more agnostic and/or “Side A” position. We also get into JP’s experience with the “ex-gay” movement, people, …

BONUS: TJ and David on the 6 Moral Foundations in Side B Sexuality

July 20, 2022

In this bonus episode, TJ and David review the 6 universal moral foundations from Jonathan Haidt’s research in light of their views—and others’—on Christian queer sexuality. This is a follow-up to last week’s discussion, so …

#11 - Fractures in Our Moral Foundation | Applying Haidt to Sexual Ethic Divides

July 13, 2022

TJ and David dig into Dr. Jonathan Haidt’s social, cultural, and psychological research on the universal moral foundations, based on Haidt’s book The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion, i.e.…

#10 - Pride Revisited & Summed Up

June 22, 2022

After verbally processing on our last podcast, we read and listened to various perspectives that differ from ours and are coming back to discuss it again. This can be considered a summary of sorts of the last podcast, with s…

#9 - Porch Podcast on Pride Month

June 1, 2022

What to do about the Pride Month? Reject? Celebrate? A little of both? TJ and David take a stab at complexifying this simple question. (rough cut audio while sitting on the porch)

#8 - On Covenant Brotherhood, with Special Reference to TJ’s Covenant

Jan. 18, 2022

In this episode, we, joined by our friend and project manager/editor Alaina, talk about covenant brotherhood, via the particular instantiation of TJ’s covenant brotherhood/s with four brothers. TJ shares his general story, w…

Recommendation: Gay Identity, Gentile Christians, and Revoice: Misty Irons

Nov. 24, 2021

Recommendation for episode #916 on the podcast Theology in the Raw. https://www.prestonsprinkle.com/theology-in-the-raw/916-misty-irons Preston Sprinkle gives good introductory thoughts on "gay" identity before sharing an in…

#7 - David's Story | Revoice, "Coming Out", Facing Tensions, Finding Stability

Nov. 4, 2021

David Frank shares about his "coming out" story at church and with family, reflecting on formative influences on his sexuality, and how God has established him in a Side B life that is committed to sewing into community. ___…

#6 - TJ's Story | Dysphoria, Queerness, Contextualization, and Conviction

Oct. 14, 2021

TJ Espinoza shares the history of his personal understanding about his own sexuality, and how God has lead him through study, community, and spiritual experience towards a Side B conviction, even if it leaves him with many l…

#5 - You Say Gay-bye, and I Say Hello... | Terminology and Its Discontents

Sept. 14, 2021

David and TJ get into one of the most commonly controversial topics currently regarding the Side B conversation and Side B Christians – terminology! We talk through some common reason why contemporary queer Christians may us…

#4 - The PCA Votes on "Gay/SSA Christian" Pastors

Sept. 8, 2021

David and TJ discuss the goals, statuses, and potential impacts of several overtures (i.e. amendments) that were brought to the PCA national conversation in June/July of 2021. The Presbyterian Church in America's (PCA's) Gen…

#3 - A-B-Y-X | 4 Sides on SSA/Gay Sexuality

Sept. 8, 2021

David and TJ describe the “Sides” terminology/heuristic device used among many Christians engaged in the conversation around sexuality and Christianity in the US. They describe the most common fourfold system - A, B, Y, X – …

#2 - Art, Jesus, and 'Queering' Your Perspective | Chat with Raye

Aug. 17, 2021

TJ and David have a lovely time chatting with Raye! Raye is a Side B woman, who shares her experience growing up in a conservative Christian home and church, and later comes to terms with her tilted perspective. At times she…