TJ talks with Lucas, a friend from the Midwest (US) who experiences same-sex attraction and generally identifies with Side B but finds understanding among several “sides” of the Christian debate. We see Lucas’s story offering an example of someone processing through faith, attraction, ethnicity, political frameworks, and arriving at a position of thoughtfulness and nuance.
Note: We use the terms “Side A” and “Side B” as shorthand quite a bit. If you’re new to the conversation, here’s a quick explanation. We also recommend listening to our episode #3, “A-B-Y-X | 4 Sides on SSA/Gay Sexuality.”
Sides B, X, and Y all represent perspectives that uphold the historic Christian sexual ethic of marriage between a man and a woman, and sex within marriage. Specific perspectives differ beyond that:
2:25 - Lucas' church background
7:06 - The pros and cons of different words: Same-sex attraction, gayness, and more
10:04 - Lucas' story: Naming and understanding about same-sex attraction
21:09 - Lucas' story: Sharing about same-sex attraction
29:02 - An alternate vision of marriage in culture ("we make marriage more difficult than it has to be")
35:10 - Connecting culture and ethnicity with sexuality conversations
39:25 - Why aren't you side A? (or, What is marriage for?)
43:32 - Why don't you see yourself in side X or side Y?
51:49 - Side B: More opportunity for friendships?
54:47 - Suggestions for future research on queerness
59:55 - Other intersections (intellectual traditions, multi-ethnic, etc.) with Lucas' perspective
1:02:16 - The possible role of government in sexual morality
1:09:03 - Looking to the future: Co-housing
Links and References
Below are some resources or terms that Lucas and TJ mention in this episode, which may help make this conversation accessible to global listeners (inclusion does not imply endorsement, of course).
Spiritual Friendship Blog: spiritualfriendship.org/
Washed and Waiting by Wesley Hill
Spiritual Friendship by Wesley Hill
Out of a Far Country by Christopher Yuan and Angela Yuan
Changed Movement: https://changedmovement.com/
Freedom March: https://www.freedomtomarch.com/
The theological idea of “concupiscence”: according to Wikipedia and the Roman Catholic encyclopedia.
In the episode, Lucas also mentioned the Pulse Massacre (Wikipedia)—content warning for violence, murder, and terror.