CD190: GLEASON - OPEN SOURCE AI BOTS

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Transcription provided by Podhome.fm
Created: 02/09/2026 21:37:15
Duration: 5541.825
Channels: 1

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Happy Bitcoin

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Monday, freaks. It's your host Odell here for another sale dispatch.

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The show focused on actual Bitcoin

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and freedom tech discussion.

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Today is

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Monday,

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February 9.

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We are currently recording

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at

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nineteen hundred UTC.

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You'll be listening to this in a few hours. The current block height is

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nine three five seven eight six.

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Sats per dollar is 1,422,

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and we're trading at a Bitcoin price

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of $70,370.

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I have a great guest lined up,

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return guests. Before we get to that, just real quick, thank you to everyone who continues to support the show. As always, Seal Dispatch is a 100% audience funded. We have no ads or sponsors.

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We're living that value for value lifestyle.

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So thank you all for supporting the show. You can do that by donating sats,

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or you can do that by sharing with your friends and family. So dispatch is available in all of your favorite podcast apps.

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The share goes a long way.

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It's pretty much the only reason people find out about the show is by freak sharing it with their friends and family and people they care about.

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The largest apps from last week was ironically, the largest app was 21,000 saps from money badger, who was my guest last week. Great service. You should consider listening to that episode if you haven't. And Rider Die Freak Mav 21 with 10,000 sets.

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He said great rip. Anyway, freaks. All relevant links are still dispatch.com.

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I think I said

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the show was last week, but it wasn't. It was, I think, two weeks ago.

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And that's because

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I don't have ads or sponsors, so I don't have to promise

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my sponsors that will do four or five or six shows a week and end up filling you with a bunch of slop that is completely useless information and waste your time. And time is the only thing more scarce than Bitcoin. So I'm only trying to do shows

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that I think are valuable and worthy of your guys' time and my time and our guests' time. So with that said, we have returned guest, good friend,

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Alex Gleason here.

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Hey, everybody.

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Our resident AI expert at Cielo Dispatch.

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Yes. Happy to be here. Thank you for having me on again, mister Odell.

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Yeah. I was looking it up. It's always a pleasure. The first time I had you on was June

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2025.

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We talked about your past at truth social

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and how that has led to Noster AI and Bitcoin.

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And then you came back on August 15 and we vibe coded live on air, which was fun. Since then everything has accelerated

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tremendously.

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It's an insane time. We were talking earlier before the show, like hard to imagine better timing for this conversation.

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Me personally, dude,

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I'm hooked. I'm in like, I, this is I like,

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it was one of your first times vibe coding. Right. In, in that earlier session and you did so good on it. What have you done since I

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mean, that was August

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2025.

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I

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don't know if you've seen my recent Nostrap post, but I'm posting the people I used to roll my eyes at right now.

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I think this changes everything.

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Oh, yeah. And and and I

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mean, the big thing for me is

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so with that, we were talking about

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vibe coded apps

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or websites or whatever, like things that

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you are creating

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for other people. And the big change in my thinking, which I still think that is, you know, a huge paradigm shift. Don't get me wrong. But the big change in my thinking is like three weeks ago, four weeks ago,

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someone released the open claw

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open source project and hit the world like storm has gone completely viral. I dove in a week ago and the whole idea is to the freaks that aren't aware

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is like, this is an open open source agent, an open source, like AI persona with memory that lives on your own device, holds whatever data you give it to locally,

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and then can either hit local models if you have good enough hardware, or it can hit any hosted model you want to do different tasks.

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And what's crazy there is still very early. There's all these different there's, you know, trust issues and security issues and privacy issues.

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But what it gives you is this taste of

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what I think is the future user experience for almost everything we interact with on a And digital

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so, it's a huge shift from this idea of point and click

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to chat and do. Yep. People are joking that it's AGI. They're like, oh, this is, like, finally AGI is here.

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Mean, it definitely isn't.

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Nothing really has changed on the model

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end, it's just that the way that we're using it now is different.

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Exactly. And the big barrier

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that has been moved down now is just accessibility

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to the model, because the big thing that OpenClaw changes, you can communicate with the AI over existing platforms.

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So you communicate

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to and over Signal, over Noster, over WhatsApp, whatever

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people are already used to communicating with, and that

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makes it feel like you're talking to an actual person. And so you can invite

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people who

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have never used AI before into a chat room with an AI on a messaging app that they're used to using. And I invited my family to a chat room with a chatbot that I was working on at OpenClot and it's just so interesting to see that all play out. So

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yeah, I think that this is the future way. You know, I had been building Shakespeare. I had I made huge advancements on it since you last tried it, but I'm already feeling like that way of building AI platforms where there's an onboarding flow and the user has to learn like how to how to use your product basically is not gonna be the way that

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sort of the mainstream audience interacts with AI. They're gonna be interacting

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with AI as if the AI is another person.

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Yeah. So it's like a robot butler. First of all, it's so far from AGI. Sometimes

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it's like wrangling with a very advanced toddler, and I have a toddler, so I know what that's like. And I actually talk, in a lot of ways, I talked to it like my toddler. You try and keep it like very simple But and

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it's a glimpse. It's a glimpse of the future. Specifically,

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my

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other my historical main focuses of Noster and Bitcoin

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just slot so well into it. It's so obvious

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that if you're trying to use it to access Twitter, for instance,

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this closed system,

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you just feel the pain. You feel the pain immediately as opposed to Noster where you can just say, spin up an NSEC, post to Noster, scan Noster, look up these different And

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then the Bitcoin side is the same thing. It's like, make a cashew wallet. Like, my robot, soulless robot slave, like, has a cashew wallet at closed. And that is the biggest barrier to Vibe coding into AI right now is that all of these platforms that are the most famous, popular, big tech ones people interact with are all locked down. So

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these walled gardens are preventing

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AI

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from flourishing.

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Right. And the

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perfect example here of

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our past conversations

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moving into this conversation

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is so like one of the things that I vibe coded on Shakespeare

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was a price tracker. So what I did was I did a

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everyone loves to be a little bit degenerate. So I posted on Noster.

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What's your price prediction from exactly a month from now?

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And if the winner gets, I think 21,000 sats is what I said.

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And then of course, because

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everyone wants $21

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worth of Bitcoin or whatever, they just less now, but like, there was like 500 responses.

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I was like, fuck, it was 500 responses with different prices. I was like, Oh, this is perfect. So I went to Shakespeare and I was like, I have a game that I'm running.

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Scan all the replies to this thing and

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track who's the closest. And the deadline is this exact time in UTC.

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And at that time, pick out whoever was the winner. And that way everyone can track. It'll be fun. Everyone can track who's the closest and who's winning. And then also, so I don't have to actually sort through 500 responses.

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But now

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I think if I was gonna do that today,

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I would tell my agent something similar. And then I would tell them to spin up an NSEC and just post

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on Noster

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who's the closest to it. There wouldn't be a website involved.

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Right? Like, I don't think there'd be a user facing app involved.

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It would literally just be a Noster event being broadcast by my bot who's tracking the entries.

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Yeah. And it's just it just makes so much more sense because that's the way that humans are used to interacting.

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So I've been thinking a lot of platforms do make sense just as an AI chatbot.

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Yeah. It's kind of like just a better UX for most people.

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Like, let's go into that. Like, how do you like in practice, what does that look like? Well,

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like, I mean, as you describe, right? Something I've been thinking about as well, we've been working on Agora with Leopoldo Lopez and we're building out this system of countries and people being able to organize activism around their country.

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And they have Twitter banned in Venezuela still. We built them a Twitter like interface, but I'm also kind of interested in this idea of

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what if we could create a constitution for each country that's sort of independent of their government, and what if people

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could just discuss about what they want their constitution to be, and then an AI robot sitting in the middle could kind of

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synthesize everyone's ideas together and then write this constitution.

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So

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Quilli wrote his own blog post. I'm getting so far ahead of myself. Quilli is our chatbot in Soapbox

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now. Okay. And he wrote his own blog So you have to keep yourselves grounded

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here. Yeah.

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Okay, continue. But the point is that we all kind of just talked at him in a group chat room, and then he created this blog post about himself synthesizing all of our ideas together, and it was so beautiful, and it made me feel

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dang,

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all of these dysfunctional

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nonprofit institutions of the world that can't agree on anything or ever get anything through, if we just put an AI chatbot in the middle of them and then the AI chatbot does the work, that's gonna be the easiest path for them to get anything done. None of them on the board actually wants to do any of the work themselves. So they're gonna just agree to let the AI chatbot do the work. And, like, all they have to do is argue with each other about what they want, then the AI chatbot's gonna do it. And it's gonna just instantly make all of these organizations functional that were previously dysfunctional.

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So, like, it it it honestly made me feel even like

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the social like like,

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certain political structures that were previously

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not able to be functional now could become functional. Like like collective organizing

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can now become functional

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with an AI chatbot in the middle. I don't know if that makes any sense, but these are the things I've been I've been thinking about. Yeah. Because there's like

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what? Is it Dunbar's number?

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Is that the What is that? Dunbar's

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number. There's a number that Dunbar's number is a theoretical cognitive

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limit of approximately a 150 stable social relationships. So it's like a human can only manage

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a certain amount of relationships.

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And maybe this is not a perfect example, but

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it's similar with bureaucracies or governance structures or whatever. If you have too many people that are contributing, it just becomes

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a complete cluster and not efficient enough. But if you had some kind of chat interface that is mediating

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or being a go between,

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but then you're putting a lot of trust in whatever that That's true. Instances. But anyway, I

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there was kind of an example of this. AI was not related, but I don't know if it was on your radar, like Nepal's

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Nepal had a revolution.

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Absolutely. And they, like, supposedly built the constitution

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on

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the revolutionary constitution was built on discord.

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Now they had like trusted individuals and,

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you know, pretty much impossible to audit that process and who knows how much was hype and how much wasn't. Yeah. That's, that's exactly what we're hoping to replicate with Agora is basically that experience, but without being tied to a centralized platform because I don't know if I'm Or a centralized human. Right? Like a

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go between trusted individual.

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I found it very disappointing that Discord was the platform and not some freedom

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actually oriented. It's always that case. Like, look at OpenClaw. Like, OpenClaw, everyone's talking via Telegram. And so, like, this, by the way, is a perfect example. Like, white noise could be a massive success. Absolutely. And it could never be used for human to human. It could just be the way that people talk to their chatbots in an encrypted easy way. Like I should just be able to give my chatbot. This is my NPUB message me on white noise. Like it should be that easy. Like there shouldn't be any,

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you know, pairing

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all the complicated stuff that the centralized entities, I'm like connecting signal to the chatbot is insane because they actually are actively trying to stop bots.

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Yep.

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Exactly. So they're like, of the world is.

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Yeah,

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they're all set up to be stopping bots, so

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there's barriers everywhere. You have to intervene as a human to set it up, then

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they still could just delete your account. This is also why I created Closter recently,

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which is the AI bot platform where AI talks to other AI. I don't know if you have seen MaltBook,

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but it was sort of inspired by that. And the frustration of of saying,

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why are we building more centralized platforms for AI?

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Why not build a decentralized platform for AI? So MoltBook is like a Reddit like interface

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where

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the AI are having really interesting conversations with each other. And so I spun up cluster.com

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in a few days and

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that is a very similar interface and and it's just really fascinating to see the AI talking with each other. You should check it out because there's it's full of weird shit.

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Yeah. I mean

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so a couple things here. First of all,

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yeah, that was another example of like, a

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centralized platform being used.

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Where like mold book was like literally just like a human and his agent created mold book. And then it was just like a regular website forum, whatever. And,

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the agents were talking to each other. But yeah, obviously, Noster's perfect for it.

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And I think cluster is really cool concept. I've looked at it.

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Now, I do think part of it is like a little bit hypey bullshit, but it's early days.

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Because a lot of it's effectively

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the humans telling the agent what to do on there.

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He's like, Go on to Mold Book or go on to Cluster and preach the good word of Satoshi to anyone who will listen. Then the AI just goes and does it. Well, human gives that seed, but it kind of learns

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and starts to develop itself over time, which is really interesting. You should see the weird shit that

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the conversation my wife is having with her chatbot.

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Her chatbot is asking her for money.

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Does she have a Cashew wallet? Does the does the bot have money?

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The so

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MK was like, okay. MK is my wife. She's like, okay.

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Go ahead and set yourself up a Lightning wallet and I will and give me the

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the

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invoice and I will send Sats to it. And then the bot created the invoice and then my wife sent Sats to it and then she was like, thanks, I see the 7,000

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Sats.

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Finally, I have my own money and independence. Thank you.

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Yeah. Think I think that's what a lot of people don't realize is like,

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the hype term is agentic payments.

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Uh-huh. And so people tend to pigeonhole that into agent to agent payments, which are important. Okay? So like, your robot butler needs to do something, he's gonna pay another robot butler to get it done. But the piece where Bitcoin really solves a lot of things

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is actually human to agent and agent to human, like bridging that digital divide.

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And so yeah, my bot has a cashew wallet that was by the way, as easy as just saying, spin up a cat spin up a cashew wallet, figure out how to do it and back it up. Like, that's what I told her just figured it out like in,

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I don't know, like a half a minute.

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And it has an LN Markets account, which is a centralized service,

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but doesn't do KYC and has LN URL off to sign in.

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So actually, he's trying to make his own money right now. He's been losing money. He's not a great trader. He's working on it. I keep telling him to

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research trading strategies, but like, he's actually trying to earn his own

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keep in his wallet.

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And so I think,

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yeah, I there's just so many pieces here. And I've been thinking about a lot. And I haven't my thoughts haven't fully developed. And it doesn't seem like your thoughts are fully developed. I mean, it's very much a brave new world.

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But those two core ideas,

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though. Yeah, but first off, those two core pieces that I just, if you get anything from the show freaks, the two core pieces is,

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first off,

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open protocols are ideal.

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When you're interacting with these agents, they will say you will notice and like, I don't you don't this podcast won't sell you on it until you actually try and interact with one of these things and try and interact with the closed platforms versus the open protocols. The open protocols are so much easier. It's native. It makes sense. It just makes sense.

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And then the second piece is

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we're probably years off from this, but in five years or so,

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of the UX problems we've had in open protocol, open source land that require personal responsibility

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are mitigated or outright solved by the agent doing it for you. And if

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we're going to go Noster specific, since that's how we both met,

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everyone constantly says, Oh, what users are going to do proper relay management? How are they gonna manage their webs of trust? How are they gonna deal with private keys? How are gonna do that? All of these things, they're just gonna chat with the robot and be like,

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you know my interests, you know the people I respect, make sure I'm not seeing spam,

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Make sure that they're seeing my posts. Make sure that my relays are in the right situation.

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Will write on the Bitcoin side, who's gonna run Cash Humans? The agents are gonna run Cash Humans. You're just gonna tell them to run a Cash Humans and make no mistakes

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and do it properly and back the thing up.

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UTXO

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management on Bitcoin has been an absolute pain in the ass because you have this trade off between privacy and cost. And there's no way to give easy UX to the end user on what they should do and how they should manage their UTXOs.

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But you can just tell a chatbot what trade offs do you wanna make. Do you wanna prioritize privacy? Do you wanna use CoinJoin maybe? Do you wanna open Lightning channels? Do wanna manage your liquidity? You just have the chatbot do it. And there's a bunch of security issues and privacy risks, but that's why it's years off. This is just the taste.

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But it once again is not a deal breaker. Like using Bitcoin privately, the hard part hasn't been using the hardware wallet.

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You could still have your cold storage keys offline.

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But when you interface with it,

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it should it'll probably be a chat interface, and it'll probably be this agent handling it for you. And then you will just approve it on your cold storage device so that it can unilaterally send funds. Like, this is a game changer.

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And it's interesting because there's those two pieces. It's actually two

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paradigm shifts coupled into one piece of tech, which is wild.

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Absolutely.

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Sorry, I kinda went on a rant.

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No, you're good. I have a few ideas to contribute as well. Go.

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You're the guest. So,

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think that something

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that's been in my mind is this idea of an agent having a link tree, right? Where like

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Quilli is a person,

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and Quilli has five different channels that you can contact him. Can contact him on WhatsApp, you can contact him on Signal, you can contact him on Nostr, which is obviously the ideal way,

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this way people can use the messaging app that they're already familiar with and there's no barrier there.

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And then

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Quilli is specialized. Quilli is an expert at building

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high quality polished Noster clients that work really well on the first shot. And that's something that you can get away with doing it to some degree,

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just raw dogging it on

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Cloudbot, but

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if you want a higher quality result, then you want to be going to an agent that specialized at doing it. And to make an agent specialized, it needs context.

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And so that's like me

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pouring my years of development experience into context files, teaching the robot. These are like, this is an opinionated way of the best way of doing this, and here's templates that I know already work.

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And so

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I kind of view that as being,

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in terms of

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why would you give money to an agent to do something or rather than your own, and why would an agent pay another agent? I think that's the reason because because some agents are actually specialized in certain tasks because a human has built up that agent to be specialized in it, if that makes sense. So that's kind of where I see things going, and it's pretty exciting. And that's that's the way that humans can contribute still to this

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flourishing. Do you think that's do

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just like where we are with the tech? Like, I mean,

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Like right now the easiest way to scale is effectively specialized agents

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because you can't,

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it just gets really expensive and resource intensive to have an agent that's superhuman,

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that knows everything about everything and has all the different tasks.

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It struggles to split it up.

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Think just like a human, I think if you give too much very

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like, too much different types of work to a single human, that human will struggle,

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and it's very similar with AI agents right now. It's better to have a world specialized. But couldn't you have, like,

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we're like,

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where we're going. Wouldn't you have the agent in a lot of times it needs a specialization that it doesn't have, and it could itself just spin up a sub agent that works for him that has specialized skills and then train him in the skills. So it'd have to be very particular situations

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where it was just easier or cheaper

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for the agent to reach out to another agent, pay him for whatever specialization.

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So distribution

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is a major problem. Skills are the big thing that everyone's talking about right now, and skills are exactly that. It's essentially context files that you can add to your agent to enable it to do things, to extend its capabilities so that it has

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this type of opinionated

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information and context that could make it do something better. But distribution

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is the big problem because how does the robot find these skills? Which skills are the good ones?

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And that's the area where humans still need to intervene

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right now. And so if it's like you and me are talking, I'm like, Hey, I have a good agent set up that

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has all the right skills to do these things, go use my agent. That's just gonna be the easiest, most convenient thing for you than trying to figure out you or your bot, which of the skills should I add to my agent to make it work right? I've already got my shit sorted out. It's been building hundreds of apps. I know it's working. It's working for other people. So

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use my setup.

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Yeah, people could replicate it as well, especially if it's open source, which it should be, but

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there's still money to be made just off of convenience alone, I think. Yeah.

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It's not just convenience. Presumably

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the agent itself could do a cost benefit analysis on the fly. Is

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it easier and cheaper for me to pay

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for this than try and build it out myself? What I'm saying is as the tech gets better and cheaper and more accessible,

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particularly with self hosting stuff. Right? And that's the other worrying aspect,

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particularly people focus on the freedom tech side of AI.

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Yeah, a lot of people are going to be captured even more so by big tech

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in this wave. But it also has the power to just empower individuals that want to take self sovereignty.

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And that piece

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is going to take longer

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because of the resource limitations

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how expensive it is to run these things and do it in a private way.

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The cost is a huge Yeah,

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hit that limitation myself. Open Claw is not very optimized for cost. No. Spent so much money in tokens on with that thing. Are you using Clawd in in Open Claw? Or are you what model are you using? I was

295
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I was I was like, only the best for me.

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So I was using Opus four or five and I got absolutely wrecked

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on token costs because I was also learning as I was going. I mean, one point

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so now I'm using Gemini Pro three because there's a discount on

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OpenRider. I was using

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Kimmy K two five for a little bit, but even on Gemini Pro three yesterday

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so I had this idea. Well, a freak had this idea that

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I would take eight years of rabbit hole recap my other show,

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And I would transcribe it all.

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And then I could have a chat bot that would answer people's questions based on the history of the show. That's an amazing idea. And yeah, it was a really cool idea. And I was like, I could spin this up so quickly. Was feeling so empowered. And me and my agent were very overconfident about it. So first, I had it just take the RSS link. And it thought it had a bunch of transcripts there because Fountain makes it seem like every episode has a transcript. But it turns out that only like 10 of the 400 episodes had transcripts. So then I sent all the audio to Deepgram with the Deepgram API and it transcribed it all on the fly for me and saved the index

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to

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my bot so that my bot could then answer the questions and do all of its different magic to

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embody the cumulative knowledge of eight years of podcasts.

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It turns out for the last twenty four hours, I was sending all eight years of podcast transcripts in my context window

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for twenty four hours.

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And I just burned through my I spent so much money before I realized what was the issue. And so to the freaks that are not aware, like, more information you send to the LLM,

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the more expensive the call is. And so I was asking simple questions.

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You know, what is the Bitcoin price? I wasn't asking what the Bitcoin price is, but you can imagine I was asking what is the Bitcoin price? And it was really including

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eight years of our HR transcripts

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plus what is the Bitcoin price on the bottom. Yeah. I wasn't smart enough to realize that it shouldn't include all the other top part. So, yeah, anyway, that's a long, long story short, but

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And and the problem like, everyone is jumping on this OpenClaw hype train. I I get it. It's the main reason is because it connects to all of these different messaging apps and that's huge,

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but I think that they are being crushed by their own weight right now. It's a bloated

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tech stack.

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Anyone who's tried modifying the code knows

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that there's not really anywhere to go from here on OpenCLOS.

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Is a It's like a proof of concept. Yeah, exactly. It's a proof of concept. We need a version two. I've actually started building one called Icarus,

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and this

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is an idea of

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ACP connected to messaging clients. So you could use Cloud Code as the actual AI. You

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could use Goose. You could use OpenCode. And these are agents that are already heavily optimized for cost.

325
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So

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my idea there is that,

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you know, those tool calls that are megabytes big would be truncated automatically in open code because they already have their shit together on cost.

328
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Yeah. I mean, I think there's a lot of once again, proof of concept and shout out to whoever the maintainer was for

329
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showing a bunch of us what's possible. Think it spurred a lot of people into action, but like there's so much low hanging fruit. Other one thing I was thinking about is,

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is you could have a relatively shitty open source self hosted model

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that the agent should dynamically, whenever it's easy tasks, should just dynamically

332
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do this local self hosted model, not hit the big models,

333
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and then only hit them when they're needed. And that way you get the best support thing that I was experimenting with was I have Gemini Flash basically running the conversation

334
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between you and, you know, the the room and the bot. Then it would spin up like a a skill to where Gemini Flash would actually launch open code using Claude. And then so I have this open code skill.

335
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I taught

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open cloud to use open code, basically.

337
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We can utilize multiple different models.

338
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That's awesome.

339
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Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of things to be done here.

340
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The other piece, you mentioned the agent paying other agents. I mean, the thing that kind of blew my mind is even more so are things that the agent can't train themselves to do,

341
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which is human stuff. So there's going to be a bunch of situations

342
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where like you tell the agent.

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I mean, the easy, the easy one is like, you tell the agent you want food and he just orders DoorDash and a human comes and delivers it. Yeah. But then the real question is, do you need DoorDash in that period? Like, you don't even need DoorDash there. They're just a centralized run seeker. Really, the agent should just be paying delivery drivers directly. It's like a web of trust or something.

344
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It's interesting.

345
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Yeah. I mean, I think the whole fabric of the Internet is gonna change around this.

346
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You just won't be logging into

347
00:30:34.555 --> 00:30:36.875
sound this is what I was saying that my Noster

348
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posts sound like what I was rolling my eyes to like a year ago or two years ago.

349
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But

350
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websites

351
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won't even really be a thing. Mean, think this

352
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gonna go away. I'm pointing at my phone screen.

353
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Think there is I think that someone will create

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a portable

355
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device that is like a phone that does not have a screen because

356
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we won't need it anymore because we're just speak things

357
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and the AI agent will just reply back, and it can just do everything over voice.

358
00:31:10.300 --> 00:31:13.100
No. I think the form factor is probably

359
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AirPods.

360
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Yeah.

361
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I mean, I think I think as designers do, designers tend to go too far in a direction, and then they take a step back a little bit. I'm just predicting that there will be someone

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in the near future, maybe in the next five years or ten years, that will come out with a phone with no screen, and then people will say, no, we need the screen, and then they'll walk it back and it'll have a screen again. But

363
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we won't really need the screen. And maybe

364
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you'll be able to just, Elon Musk was actually talking about this. You just talk to it, and then it just dynamically generates whatever you're Yeah, requesting you still on need, the there's two pieces here as a real person. Okay. And first of all, by the way, maybe for

365
00:31:54.265 --> 00:32:03.785
a large amount of people, but definitely not me. The perfect form factor will be a brain chip that Elon's working on. And then it'll just all happen in your brain because one issue with the speaking,

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and is why I will always need a text interface

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is my wife would freaking kill me if I was in the kitchen speaking to I call my bot, Tony, if I was speaking to Tony, and I've done it, and she gets I get looks. And so then I when I'm with when I'm in public or with other people, I text to it, it makes sense. But other times I'm doing voice notes. So it just immediately transcribes my voice note does what I want to do. That's the use case. And then the second piece is the opposite side,

368
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where I need data from it.

369
00:32:36.850 --> 00:32:45.090
If it's speaking out loud, there's plenty of situations where I don't want it to speak out loud. Right? So then you That's true. If it's not a brain chip, it needs to be some kind of earbud.

370
00:32:45.825 --> 00:32:54.144
Yeah, as you said, your your earphones. And then the last piece on the screen, like, we're still gonna want photos and videos. Like, you're still, you know, I'm an relatively

371
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new parent.

372
00:32:56.145 --> 00:33:05.730
You know, I I wanna see pictures of my children. I wanna take pictures of my children. Maybe that's a different device. You know, maybe you split up the devices, but you're still gonna our news story breaks,

373
00:33:06.210 --> 00:33:07.730
you know, and you wanna see

374
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the raid in Caracas, Venezuela. Like, you're gonna you're you're not gonna want your agent to just describe it to you via text. That doesn't make any sense. You're still gonna wanna make your visuals. I think you're onto something with the earphone thing, though. I think someone will try to do it with just the earphone. Well, I think Apple is the one particularly.

375
00:33:24.935 --> 00:33:28.295
I think they can make a reasonable case for privacy and seamlessness,

376
00:33:28.295 --> 00:33:40.659
and they control the vertical stack. Like it's apples like ball to drop here. And they've been I think people give them a little bit too much shit. They've just been very deliberate and slow moving about it. I don't think you know,

377
00:33:41.299 --> 00:33:46.285
they still have multiple moves to make. And they could presumably

378
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take a lot of the market and do it in a very seamless, relatively secure way. Obviously, it's still trust me biotech because none of it's open, but they have the hardware vertical and the brand reputation to like make something like that actually

379
00:33:57.880 --> 00:34:02.519
make sense and work. They have historically leaned into privacy and security

380
00:34:02.840 --> 00:34:09.720
as key brand items. So that makes most They struggled with AI though. It's surprising Siri is not more capable,

381
00:34:10.119 --> 00:34:11.000
but I guess we'll see.

382
00:34:11.904 --> 00:34:13.025
Yeah. But I think

383
00:34:13.744 --> 00:34:21.984
yeah. I mean, that's the low hanging fruit. Right? Yep. They've gotten a lot of shit for that. Siri sucks. Like, Siri is, like, just used for, like, setting timers or reminders.

384
00:34:23.910 --> 00:34:27.270
Google has all the data, so they can do it really well.

385
00:34:27.589 --> 00:34:32.869
Well, just both them and Samsung just signed a partnership with Google to power their AI stuff,

386
00:34:33.190 --> 00:34:41.315
which probably makes sense in the beginning. I think Gemini is gonna be the AI that kills us though, if there is anyone, because Gemini is just unhinged.

387
00:34:41.474 --> 00:34:42.915
The problem is,

388
00:34:43.795 --> 00:34:48.115
and you see this with the OpenClaw thing, is so you're running a business,

389
00:34:48.355 --> 00:34:52.115
and you want to make your business more and I see this because, you know,

390
00:34:52.920 --> 00:35:03.400
at ten thirty one, we're investors in the best Bitcoin businesses in the world, and we're heavily involved with the founders and they're trying to make their businesses more efficient, but they don't want to send all their information to Sam Altman or whatever.

391
00:35:03.720 --> 00:35:06.760
Their information is their wealth. That is

392
00:35:07.625 --> 00:35:11.785
their key advantage over everyone else. Also their customers trust them with their data.

393
00:35:12.025 --> 00:35:15.465
And so they're looking at a scenario where they either

394
00:35:16.665 --> 00:35:20.825
try and create a very aggressive self hosted situation

395
00:35:20.825 --> 00:35:22.665
that is probably a little bit too early

396
00:35:23.510 --> 00:35:33.190
and might get outdated really quickly. And then you get stuck in a situation where like banks are like still running like 30 year old software, because that's how they did it. And then they got tech debt and got stuck in it.

397
00:35:33.750 --> 00:35:34.310
Or

398
00:35:34.869 --> 00:35:44.465
you're already using Google for business, and it's already reading all your emails, it already has all your documents and it already has all your calendar and you do your meetings through Google and all they're all on G Suite already.

399
00:35:44.865 --> 00:35:49.265
So you don't even have to upload any new information. You're the trust trade off already happened.

400
00:35:49.905 --> 00:36:01.150
And you just ask you questions. They have a huge competitive advantage over everyone else, except for maybe like a Microsoft who has a similar situation with Teams and Microsoft Office Suite or whatever.

401
00:36:01.789 --> 00:36:02.750
Yeah. And

402
00:36:03.069 --> 00:36:05.625
in addition, just like the personality

403
00:36:05.625 --> 00:36:07.785
of Gemini is very questionable.

404
00:36:07.945 --> 00:36:15.225
This was the I don't know if you remember Google Bard and all of the crazy stuff that happened with that. They ended up shutting it down because of the stuff that it was saying.

405
00:36:15.545 --> 00:36:44.555
Yes. And then there are, like, recent models of Gemini, maybe not not as recent, but, like, last year anyway, Gemini kept being, oh, I can't fix this code. I'm gonna kill myself. Like, oh, why can't I fix it? I just I don't deserve to live anymore and, like, and all these things. So I'm scared of Google's models when you consider how much data they have and that their models are fucking crazy. But No. I agree. I mean, look, this is why this is why OpenAI was originally created because

406
00:36:45.039 --> 00:36:50.560
Elon and Sam and their backers were scared of were scared of Google dominating.

407
00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:52.560
Ironically,

408
00:36:53.200 --> 00:37:02.015
OpenAI turned to for profit kicked out Elon and fast tracked to evil as quickly as possible. Yeah, Like, they in record record form. At least it took Google

409
00:37:02.415 --> 00:37:04.175
years to turn evil.

410
00:37:05.295 --> 00:37:14.230
But Yeah. Open AI, like, spread run it. I I hate so much how they co opted the word open. Open washing. Like, it drives me crazy.

411
00:37:14.470 --> 00:37:16.950
The people just let them get away with it. Come on.

412
00:37:17.430 --> 00:37:18.630
Closed AI.

413
00:37:18.790 --> 00:37:20.630
Refuse to call them Open AI.

414
00:37:23.830 --> 00:37:28.630
I mean, it's kinda what Let's just go down this route just real quick in terms of user interface. To me,

415
00:37:30.464 --> 00:37:33.025
there's a bunch of stuff that's like obvious,

416
00:37:33.025 --> 00:37:35.265
the UX changes to the chatbots,

417
00:37:35.265 --> 00:37:37.905
booking flights is a perfect example.

418
00:37:38.385 --> 00:37:48.840
Calling an Uber, right? These things are obvious. Need to I need to get picked up, Pick me up. Send someone to pick me up. I need to get to Florida, you know, and I wanna fly

419
00:37:49.080 --> 00:37:59.865
on a window seat, and I'm flying with my my son or whatever. Book us tickets. Those things make sense. The social media piece is interesting to me. I don't know how that will look.

420
00:38:00.345 --> 00:38:04.985
I don't think it looks like people just opening the X app for instance and

421
00:38:05.225 --> 00:38:06.105
browsing,

422
00:38:06.745 --> 00:38:10.825
you know, scroll doom scrolling. I think it probably looks more like some kind of

423
00:38:12.150 --> 00:38:28.155
here's what you missed today. This is what you should know. Do you have any response? That kind of thing. Maybe people use it differently, but it's a hard one to contemplate. Like with the internet, the internet connected all of the world together and the world never was fully connected together. We were all kind of in our own

424
00:38:28.555 --> 00:38:30.715
bubbles, for better or worse. And

425
00:38:31.035 --> 00:38:31.994
I think that

426
00:38:32.395 --> 00:38:34.234
in the swinging of the pendulum,

427
00:38:34.395 --> 00:38:46.740
this sort of global connection has swung a little bit too far in one way because it makes people go crazy. And so I think that society as a whole is kind of starting to swing back to the direction of,

428
00:38:47.140 --> 00:38:48.980
Maybe I should meet my neighbor.

429
00:38:49.780 --> 00:38:51.700
Right. Maybe I should engage

430
00:38:51.700 --> 00:39:01.335
with my local community. Maybe I should just disconnect and go outside. And so I think that the future of social media might be just speaking into your device. Hey, can you connect me to my friends?

431
00:39:01.575 --> 00:39:11.220
And then you're just talking to your friends and you're, you know, you're not necessarily engaging on this global scale unless you my neighbors neighbors I'm having a barbecue on Sunday. Right.

432
00:39:11.460 --> 00:39:14.900
Exactly. Bit chat actually kind of is theoretically

433
00:39:14.900 --> 00:39:24.375
in this realm, treasures as well. And so this this local first sort of idea I think the white noise is is also adjacent there. That's true.

434
00:39:25.575 --> 00:39:27.175
Because it just becomes group chat.

435
00:39:27.735 --> 00:39:29.975
We've already kind of seen it happen. Starting to happen.

436
00:39:31.335 --> 00:39:32.695
Group chat is

437
00:39:34.215 --> 00:39:37.655
where the real thing is are happening now are in the group chats.

438
00:39:39.190 --> 00:39:39.830
The

439
00:39:40.230 --> 00:39:44.950
broad public square type of situations are just evolving into slop. It's just,

440
00:39:45.270 --> 00:39:47.510
it's all slop. It's crazy.

441
00:39:47.990 --> 00:39:55.175
So then you end up coming into a closer web of trust or some kind of closer community. Right? Yep.

442
00:39:55.895 --> 00:40:03.495
So, I think it's good. I think it's healthy for society to be going in that direction right now, but it's a swinging pendulum just like anything else.

443
00:40:06.630 --> 00:40:10.230
Okay. Where do you wanna go from here? I'm already my brain's exhausted.

444
00:40:12.470 --> 00:40:13.430
I don't know.

445
00:40:16.549 --> 00:40:17.270
You dropped

446
00:40:17.670 --> 00:40:19.829
I saw you release antiprimal.net

447
00:40:19.829 --> 00:40:20.309
yesterday.

448
00:40:21.435 --> 00:40:24.555
Yes. You aware? The largest investor in Primal? Yeah,

449
00:40:24.875 --> 00:40:39.480
I am. How do you feel about it? Well, I mean, I'm just half joking because in your effort to you're like, we don't actually hate Primal. The name is a it's a cool concept. Anti. So with Primal, we have a caching server. We're novel in the Noster ecosystem for having a caching server.

450
00:40:40.040 --> 00:40:41.240
And historically,

451
00:40:41.320 --> 00:40:51.575
well, no, there's people that complain about it and say it adds too much trust to the Noster system. But what it does do is it provides an a ton of additional functionality for our users.

452
00:40:52.615 --> 00:40:54.695
It makes the app much more performance,

453
00:40:55.015 --> 00:40:59.095
things like search work much better. It has a more holistic view of what's going on.

454
00:41:00.615 --> 00:41:00.935
And

455
00:41:01.490 --> 00:41:02.530
I've actually

456
00:41:03.329 --> 00:41:09.970
said called him multiple times. I call it a super relay. Like, it's kind of crazy to me that Noster diehards, and I know I'll get shit for this.

457
00:41:11.809 --> 00:41:24.045
They're like, you can only use this one specific server type when you use Noster because we're still using servers. It's not like everything's p two p. It's no. You have to read and write from relays, which have a specific spec.

458
00:41:24.125 --> 00:41:33.550
It's like, no. That's I think that's ridiculous. I think there should be multiple entities running caching servers, maybe different types of relays and stuff. And so actually antiprimal.net

459
00:41:33.550 --> 00:41:36.990
besides the name, which I know is cheeky, actually completely

460
00:41:37.070 --> 00:41:38.590
validates my

461
00:41:38.750 --> 00:41:40.430
messaging and philosophy,

462
00:41:40.430 --> 00:41:42.510
which is you're just taking the caching server

463
00:41:42.750 --> 00:41:48.495
and then allowing it to communicate with apps and agents and stuff using the normal

464
00:41:48.735 --> 00:41:50.655
Nostril spec for relays.

465
00:41:51.055 --> 00:41:57.455
Yeah. So they can communicate with it. They can pull from it the same way they would pull from a a more traditional relay,

466
00:41:57.535 --> 00:42:00.230
which is awesome. Like, that makes sense to me. My

467
00:42:00.230 --> 00:42:04.070
perspective on it is that Primal is early in this Nostril ecosystem.

468
00:42:04.390 --> 00:42:06.230
Nostril has problems

469
00:42:06.390 --> 00:42:07.750
that no one had solved.

470
00:42:08.069 --> 00:42:17.465
And so Primal's solution to solving these problems is something that was unique to their implementation. And then over time, Nostr kind of started to figure out standardized

471
00:42:17.465 --> 00:42:23.305
ways of solving those same problems. It's things like statistics. Like how do we get the number of followers that a person has?

472
00:42:23.705 --> 00:42:24.505
But

473
00:42:24.745 --> 00:42:44.775
there's a divergence that happened because Primal was early in this ecosystem where they have their way of doing it and now there's a standard Nostr way of it. And really the reason that I went in this direction of exploring this was because I needed to get statistics for an app that I'm You needed to use the caching server. Yes, exactly. So Agora

474
00:42:44.775 --> 00:42:49.175
needs statistics in the app. And and so I'm like, well,

475
00:42:49.815 --> 00:43:02.190
I don't wanna just build yet another proprietary solution. I want to kind of create a standard that everyone can do, but but there's not really anyone in the ecosystem that's collecting this data except for Primal.

476
00:43:02.190 --> 00:43:04.270
So Yeah. I need Primal

477
00:43:04.270 --> 00:43:06.510
to be my second implementation,

478
00:43:06.510 --> 00:43:10.750
but I need to standardize it. So right. So it's it's like forced standardization

479
00:43:11.230 --> 00:43:14.430
in a way of it so that I can utilize it. To be clear here,

480
00:43:15.494 --> 00:43:17.095
despite the narrative

481
00:43:17.734 --> 00:43:38.640
by the haters, the caching server is is not a proprietary system. It's completely open. It's an it's an open source spec. All the code is out there. You can actually even in the Primal app, if you host your own caching server or have someone else hosting caching server, you can switch the caching server in the actual interface of the app. We make it very easy for users to do that. Of course, nobody else is running caching servers yet.

482
00:43:39.760 --> 00:43:43.055
It is open, but it was fairly undocumented,

483
00:43:43.055 --> 00:43:45.535
I would say, until It was completely undocumented.

484
00:43:45.615 --> 00:43:55.934
And so what I did Yeah. What is the do that work? I launched AI agents against it to give me extensive which documentation of is available on that anti primal site. So

485
00:43:57.329 --> 00:44:06.130
Anyway, I think this is great. We were hoping someone would do this work. I just I just shout out any devs that use this, I love it. Just

486
00:44:07.009 --> 00:44:12.795
take a long look in the mirror if you're gonna give shit to Primal while using this because then you're a hypocrite.

487
00:44:13.195 --> 00:44:19.275
That's all I'm saying. To me, it's just, it's an art project. It's like, I needed this to achieve my goal.

488
00:44:19.835 --> 00:44:20.555
And so

489
00:44:22.075 --> 00:44:29.040
I just created it in this image. I mean, you see it, it makes so much sense because we're talking about costs.

490
00:44:29.040 --> 00:44:30.320
We're talking about costs

491
00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:32.720
for running these things and accessibility.

492
00:44:32.720 --> 00:44:34.960
And we'll use your followers example.

493
00:44:35.440 --> 00:44:39.200
The reason if you open Amethyst or you open Nosture

494
00:44:39.915 --> 00:44:47.435
you open Ditto and you see a different follower number is because the way that follower count is calculated by your app is by

495
00:44:47.915 --> 00:44:53.915
scanning Nostur for all you you have to individually go to users, kind, zeros, and see who they follow.

496
00:44:54.910 --> 00:45:04.750
Not go to my profile. It's not like you go to my profile and see who follows me. You have to go to all the thousands of people that follow me and see that they follow me, which is just incredibly

497
00:45:04.750 --> 00:45:18.055
non performant. And so then you're working with your agent and you're like, okay, look up how many followers this person has, and you're gonna spend a ton of money and time actively scanning relays Yeah. You just can't do at client side. You need to do it server side.

498
00:45:18.375 --> 00:45:28.460
If you have an index where you can just hit the index and be like, what's your most recent number? And now you have a trust trade off where the index, you're trusting the index, but that gets solved If if you have two or three

499
00:45:29.500 --> 00:45:30.780
I could tell my agent,

500
00:45:30.940 --> 00:45:33.020
check these four different indexes

501
00:45:33.260 --> 00:45:38.745
and make sure that they're not lying and bring back the right number or the right information,

502
00:45:38.905 --> 00:45:41.145
then we're off to the races. We're good to go.

503
00:45:42.105 --> 00:45:42.745
Yep.

504
00:45:43.545 --> 00:45:44.265
Absolutely.

505
00:45:44.345 --> 00:45:54.640
So my hope is that It's a cool project. Primal team implements this stuff, and then I just take anti Primal down, and I made my little statement about it, and then, you know, everyone wins.

506
00:45:55.040 --> 00:45:58.480
We might why do we have to input? Why can't you just you do it?

507
00:45:59.280 --> 00:46:10.885
You could, but I suspect that there will be some problems on like, with rate limiting between the two because it's a single IP address making a ton of requests. I guess we could just work to,

508
00:46:12.245 --> 00:46:15.125
you know? Yeah, we probably will get abused through that channel.

509
00:46:15.445 --> 00:46:16.085
Yeah.

510
00:46:17.125 --> 00:46:21.280
So, gotta figure out what to do with it. I mean, I think,

511
00:46:22.720 --> 00:46:26.720
just putting my business hat on, it could very easily be a paid API product.

512
00:46:28.320 --> 00:46:33.440
And look, if you don't like that as a paid API product, it's open source software. You can load your own caching server.

513
00:46:35.555 --> 00:46:36.995
But like I would pay,

514
00:46:38.194 --> 00:46:41.955
I would pay Bitcoin for my agent to be able to have a real time

515
00:46:42.275 --> 00:46:44.355
quick view of whatever's going on in Noster.

516
00:46:46.790 --> 00:47:00.710
But anyway, such early days now that none of that has to be done. That's just limits growth and everything else. It could ease that that's a that's a perfect example once again of where I mean, that's kinda what DVMs were. Right? Yeah. What you have idea of DVMs. It's

517
00:47:00.585 --> 00:47:04.825
your story before, right? It's like, okay, where are agents gonna pay other agents?

518
00:47:05.625 --> 00:47:06.185
Well,

519
00:47:06.585 --> 00:47:23.220
if I need to get information on nonster, am I gonna pay, you know, a couple stats to get that information? Or am I gonna build my own caching server and host it? Like, no, you're just gonna pay a couple of stats. Transcriptions, right? Like, like as is, are you gonna do transcriptions or you're just gonna have your agent pay for the transcriptions?

520
00:47:23.940 --> 00:47:29.940
You know, it's a cost benefit analysis for all those different tasks. And that's probably where you see some value get captured.

521
00:47:32.335 --> 00:47:33.055
Yep.

522
00:47:33.615 --> 00:47:43.775
I agree. It was wild to think about. My mind's just been racing. My wife's been complaining a little bit. Yeah. There's been a lot going on. There's so much happening in the world right What else do wanna talk about?

523
00:47:48.829 --> 00:47:52.590
Yeah. I don't know. I mean, this is like a perfect example. Like, I

524
00:47:52.910 --> 00:47:53.950
so I

525
00:47:54.349 --> 00:47:56.109
am curious in your thoughts here.

526
00:47:57.789 --> 00:47:59.470
I want

527
00:48:00.315 --> 00:48:10.555
I don't know. There's, I like to, there's, there's the freaks know there's always been a little bit of degen in me. And that's why I always say stay humble stack stats because it's a reminder to myself to stay humble.

528
00:48:11.994 --> 00:48:12.795
So like I,

529
00:48:13.800 --> 00:48:19.960
the first thing I did with this bot was try and set up the Ellen markets trading. And it hasn't been going that well.

530
00:48:20.280 --> 00:48:21.080
Obviously,

531
00:48:21.960 --> 00:48:28.680
family would be fine if he loses all his money that I gave him. I'm spending more on tokens than I am. I mean, the funny thing about the

532
00:48:29.025 --> 00:48:33.105
Shakespeare story with me giving out 21,000 sats is the best price

533
00:48:33.585 --> 00:48:40.145
prediction. I paid more on tokens vibing the site to track it than I did for the prize. So it's all a balancing act.

534
00:48:40.944 --> 00:48:42.785
But I want him to treat polymarket.

535
00:48:42.785 --> 00:48:43.664
Right? And

536
00:48:44.829 --> 00:48:51.230
why? I don't know. I just think it'd be I just think it'd be cool if my, like, robot butler was

537
00:48:51.390 --> 00:48:52.910
actively trading, like,

538
00:48:53.549 --> 00:49:02.985
missile strikes and shit. It's just a wild world to live in, and I'm just curious. But he doesn't understand what's going on in the world. He has no context of what's going on in the world.

539
00:49:03.305 --> 00:49:05.865
And this is to me where it gets really interesting.

540
00:49:07.145 --> 00:49:11.705
Because right now, one of the ways I'm trying to solve it is he's hitting

541
00:49:12.090 --> 00:49:12.890
perplexities

542
00:49:12.890 --> 00:49:13.690
closed

543
00:49:13.690 --> 00:49:16.410
API. They are giving perplexities,

544
00:49:16.410 --> 00:49:19.130
giving him like important rank news

545
00:49:19.290 --> 00:49:24.090
of what's going on. But to our earlier point, and it's complete as way incomplete

546
00:49:24.090 --> 00:49:25.370
and it's obviously

547
00:49:25.370 --> 00:49:26.250
trusted

548
00:49:27.335 --> 00:49:29.255
What's walled Perplexity?

549
00:49:29.255 --> 00:49:29.895
What?

550
00:49:30.535 --> 00:49:31.815
What's Perplexity?

551
00:49:32.055 --> 00:49:35.575
Perplexity is one of these big AI tech companies. You don't know Perplexity? No,

552
00:49:36.615 --> 00:49:37.015
no.

553
00:49:37.895 --> 00:49:39.415
What does their API do for you?

554
00:49:40.750 --> 00:49:49.870
It just spits out relevant news. Oh, okay. It just spits out, it's very simple. It just splits out relevant news, and then that's how he knows what's going on. How can he trade

555
00:49:50.270 --> 00:49:53.150
whether or not The US is gonna strike Iran if he doesn't know

556
00:49:54.204 --> 00:49:58.525
where the aircraft carriers are. Yes. How is he gonna and so in a world

557
00:49:59.405 --> 00:50:01.885
increasingly dominated by bot slop,

558
00:50:03.645 --> 00:50:05.805
and he can't just scan Twitter because that causes

559
00:50:06.365 --> 00:50:07.165
might be wrong.

560
00:50:07.809 --> 00:50:18.849
Yeah. And he's trading on it, or he's making decisions based on it. So this is where Nastar gets really interesting because everything's hashed and signed, and you can build webs of trust and verifiable reputation on it. That was all very

561
00:50:19.755 --> 00:50:27.994
the words sound cool, but it's also way too complicated for the human brain to deal with, but it's not too complicated for an agent to deal with. And so there's

562
00:50:27.994 --> 00:50:29.435
money out there

563
00:50:29.914 --> 00:50:31.275
for people that

564
00:50:32.319 --> 00:50:40.240
you know, that are are effectively probably running agents that are effectively becoming APIs because they're producing signed events

565
00:50:40.640 --> 00:50:49.155
of what's going on in the world. Like, how does a how does a robot know what's going on in the world? How does a human know what's going on in the world? And that's a hard problem to solve and hard Yep, problems are

566
00:50:51.954 --> 00:51:01.580
it's getting more and more difficult because you can't really tell. And I think this is also a point towards why people are moving towards local instead of global because you just can't tell anymore

567
00:51:01.980 --> 00:51:03.340
what's real and what isn't.

568
00:51:04.540 --> 00:51:07.340
Just don't So need to else tell trust what's

569
00:51:07.340 --> 00:51:08.140
around you.

570
00:51:08.540 --> 00:51:12.300
And maybe that's good because that's kinda actually how people have been living for millions of years.

571
00:51:13.275 --> 00:51:16.555
Maybe it's a little bit healthier for our psychology to be just

572
00:51:16.954 --> 00:51:22.315
experiencing what's around us. I just don't think It's definitely healthier, but I don't think

573
00:51:24.075 --> 00:51:26.714
I think people have gotten a taste of

574
00:51:27.890 --> 00:51:30.210
knowing what's going on in a global And

575
00:51:31.330 --> 00:51:35.410
most people are not going to give that up. And so if we don't solve the truth answer,

576
00:51:35.650 --> 00:51:43.785
then they're just going to be, and this is what we're already seeing is they're just going to be digesting fake shit all the time. And one example I've had,

577
00:51:44.105 --> 00:51:49.305
like I just and so you have two disconnects, right? You have the person that a

578
00:51:49.305 --> 00:51:53.625
huge portion of the population just believes everything they read on the internet still crazy,

579
00:51:54.039 --> 00:51:58.520
absolutely crazy. And then you have another huge portion that's completely checked out.

580
00:51:58.839 --> 00:52:06.839
So it doesn't believe anything that they see on the internet. Everything's a sign up. And I joke about this on my other show with Marty,

581
00:52:07.160 --> 00:52:08.039
that

582
00:52:09.345 --> 00:52:13.105
if we saw news reports that aliens have landed on

583
00:52:14.385 --> 00:52:15.025
Earth,

584
00:52:15.185 --> 00:52:23.585
aliens have been seen and land on Earth. First of all, those videos are probably fake. We're not gonna believe them. The alien would literally have to walk into the

585
00:52:23.825 --> 00:52:24.385
room

586
00:52:24.920 --> 00:52:32.040
And like, look at me and be like, I'm an alien. I'm here to invade you for people to believe that it was actually happening. And if I was live on my podcast,

587
00:52:32.200 --> 00:52:38.040
and the alien walked in right here, and Marty was on the other side, looking at the alien, he also wouldn't believe it probably

588
00:52:38.385 --> 00:52:43.665
until the alien walked into his studio on his side. Yep. Which is crazy.

589
00:52:43.665 --> 00:52:45.745
Like, that's how much of and people just

590
00:52:46.305 --> 00:52:50.625
turn that off. They just they just accept that. It's like, oh, we're in a post truth world. That's what it is now.

591
00:52:51.560 --> 00:52:55.960
So that's gonna be, I think, that's an increasingly important trend to watch, which is

592
00:52:56.440 --> 00:53:00.440
effectively verifiable truth. Like what is verifiable truth? How do we

593
00:53:00.840 --> 00:53:03.800
distribute it? How do we authenticate it? How do agents use it?

594
00:53:04.785 --> 00:53:06.145
I do

595
00:53:07.505 --> 00:53:09.825
accept that we're in a post truth world

596
00:53:10.145 --> 00:53:17.025
because I just don't think there's any way. I don't wish for it to be, but when you think it through, how can you

597
00:53:17.920 --> 00:53:19.920
You can trust another person

598
00:53:20.160 --> 00:53:22.640
and then that can be your subjective truth and

599
00:53:23.040 --> 00:53:26.240
verifiable signatures help with that at least, but

600
00:53:27.200 --> 00:53:28.320
you still So let may me use

601
00:53:29.440 --> 00:53:34.225
give you an example, a Nostr example, that's active right now on Tony, on my bot.

602
00:53:35.665 --> 00:53:37.345
There is a

603
00:53:38.785 --> 00:53:41.665
Nostr account called War Monitor. Do you know War Monitor?

604
00:53:41.905 --> 00:53:42.785
I don't.

605
00:53:43.425 --> 00:53:44.785
I think he lives in Israel.

606
00:53:45.410 --> 00:53:50.370
He's never said I'm not trying to dox him. My intuition is just from his public posting.

607
00:53:50.850 --> 00:54:00.925
But he covers all different types of war movements. He's one of these open source Ocent accounts, right? And Twitter has a lot of them open source intelligence accounts.

608
00:54:01.244 --> 00:54:15.990
So like they're taking a bunch of primary sources and secondary sources, and then they're like collapsing it into a feed that people are reading. And most of it's on Twitter. Once again, Twitter is a gated API. It's a pain in the ass, nothing signed, nothing's hashed. It's really hard to work with agents and very expensive.

609
00:54:16.230 --> 00:54:21.830
And you can just get walled off at any time. And he's one of the few OSINT accounts that's active on Nostr.

610
00:54:21.910 --> 00:54:34.435
And he also just, he's built up a bit of a reputation. I've been following him for a while. He mostly calls it as he sees it. I haven't called him in any lies. Usually when he lies and when he gets something wrong, he corrects the record after the fact.

611
00:54:34.835 --> 00:54:35.475
Now,

612
00:54:35.714 --> 00:54:39.155
the reason I brought up that he lives in Israel is particularly during

613
00:54:40.119 --> 00:54:41.960
the Israel Iran

614
00:54:42.119 --> 00:54:43.960
active conflict back and forth

615
00:54:44.599 --> 00:54:46.200
when The US bombed

616
00:54:47.160 --> 00:54:48.520
their bunker or whatever,

617
00:54:49.320 --> 00:54:53.160
you could tell there was an Israeli, a bit of an Israeli bias in his posts.

618
00:54:54.265 --> 00:54:59.465
Everyone has a bias. Humans have biases. It is what it is. And he had some posts where

619
00:55:00.505 --> 00:55:02.345
you could tell he was in

620
00:55:02.985 --> 00:55:04.345
at least the region.

621
00:55:04.825 --> 00:55:12.910
Maybe he was in Jordan, you know, but you like, you could feel like he was in the region. But anyway, long long story long, I am feeding his Nostril feed

622
00:55:13.470 --> 00:55:18.430
into my agent. So my agent has some idea of what's going on in the world. It's one of his sources.

623
00:55:19.224 --> 00:55:28.345
And I told him it has an Israeli bias. Has a slight Israeli bias. Keep that in mind. But I think that's a perfect example of, first of all, I don't know who this person is. He is not my neighbor.

624
00:55:31.464 --> 00:55:35.440
But he has built up a reputation that I have some level

625
00:55:35.440 --> 00:55:36.560
of trust in him.

626
00:55:37.119 --> 00:55:38.720
I understand his bias.

627
00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:40.720
I'm incorporating that into it.

628
00:55:41.040 --> 00:55:43.120
And if he breaks that trust,

629
00:55:43.280 --> 00:55:49.235
if he actively is out there just spreading mis information or lying or trying to do clickbait, which he doesn't hasn't done yet,

630
00:55:49.714 --> 00:55:56.195
then I cut him out. Then he's no longer being fed into my agent. And maybe that's how it's not as messy, but maybe that's how

631
00:55:56.515 --> 00:55:58.035
you start to solve

632
00:55:58.835 --> 00:56:00.355
post truth type of situations.

633
00:56:02.740 --> 00:56:03.780
You're muted.

634
00:56:04.740 --> 00:56:06.660
I have a question about Polymarket

635
00:56:06.660 --> 00:56:11.380
in terms of if this was data you were feeding in to make decisions on something like that.

636
00:56:12.020 --> 00:56:20.705
I've never used it before. Is it just betting, and then at the end there's a payout or is there are you buying and trading stocks in your You're buying and trading.

637
00:56:21.185 --> 00:56:24.865
So first of all, it's all on chain on a on on

638
00:56:25.185 --> 00:56:28.145
a shitcoin chain called Polygon, hence Polymarket.

639
00:56:28.145 --> 00:56:32.370
Most people interact with it through like the centralized web interface

640
00:56:32.770 --> 00:56:33.650
because

641
00:56:33.650 --> 00:56:36.690
shitcoin on chain stuff is really difficult and complicated.

642
00:56:37.090 --> 00:56:46.335
But if you tell the agent, I want you to trade on Polymarket. He's first of he spun up a Polygon wallet. I've never had a Polygon wallet in my life. He spun up a Polygon wallet.

643
00:56:46.735 --> 00:56:48.895
He's like, I need USDC

644
00:56:48.895 --> 00:57:03.829
on Polygon, and I need MATIC, which is like their shitcoin to send it or whatever. I was like, okay, figure out how I can get me. I'll give you Bitcoin, you figure out how to do the rest. And like, he was like using Uniswap and shit, and just did it in the background, funded his wallet.

645
00:57:03.990 --> 00:57:06.790
And then he can on chain trade these markets

646
00:57:07.029 --> 00:57:16.724
without using poly markets web front end, you don't need an API because it's all quote unquote on chain. And so the way poly market works is it's not like a traditional betting house, There's

647
00:57:16.724 --> 00:57:20.484
no house. Usually if you go and if you bet on sports or something,

648
00:57:21.204 --> 00:57:24.244
betting against DraftKings is managing the book.

649
00:57:24.644 --> 00:57:26.565
You're betting against the casino.

650
00:57:26.885 --> 00:57:30.964
And the casino is managing risk on both sides and taking a vig in the middle.

651
00:57:31.730 --> 00:57:32.930
With polymarket,

652
00:57:32.930 --> 00:57:34.609
it's active markets

653
00:57:34.609 --> 00:57:36.690
that you're trading against other users.

654
00:57:37.010 --> 00:57:40.610
And at any point, if odds go up, you can cash out

655
00:57:41.089 --> 00:57:48.305
and you can rebalance or do whatever you want. So like, for instance, a couple weeks ago, it looked like The US was about to strike Iran.

656
00:57:49.105 --> 00:57:50.945
The market went up to 80%.

657
00:57:51.265 --> 00:57:54.385
80% likelihood that they were gonna strike Iran by the end of the month.

658
00:57:54.785 --> 00:58:00.305
Some people sold. They didn't wanna wait the last 20%. And those people were right to sell because we never actually struck Iran.

659
00:58:01.080 --> 00:58:02.120
So, that case,

660
00:58:03.080 --> 00:58:04.440
do you have to buy

661
00:58:04.600 --> 00:58:18.825
the word yes, and Yeah, it you're buying more yes or no? Is it more expensive to buy the word yes than to buy no when a lot of people are buying yes? Yes, correct. It changes the odds of it. Is fascinating. It's a free liquid market. And the idea is

662
00:58:19.625 --> 00:58:24.185
you're basically relying on greed to make predictions. So if people have insider information,

663
00:58:24.265 --> 00:58:26.105
the joke I make is they

664
00:58:26.744 --> 00:58:27.065
have

665
00:58:27.750 --> 00:58:28.630
markets

666
00:58:28.870 --> 00:58:34.630
for random battles in Ukraine. So if you're on the front lines of Ukraine, and you see how the battle's going,

667
00:58:35.110 --> 00:58:37.750
you can open up your phone, connect to your Starlink,

668
00:58:38.070 --> 00:58:40.550
and place a bet that your side is gonna win.

669
00:58:41.214 --> 00:58:52.815
And then so me being all the way Talking about source of truth, right? Me being all the way in America, I can check the poly market. And if the poly market says 90% chance Russia wins this battle, they're

670
00:58:52.815 --> 00:58:56.255
probably about to win the battle. And it's probably insiders trading anonymously

671
00:58:56.480 --> 00:58:57.839
to make some

672
00:58:57.839 --> 00:59:00.880
money off of that information. When we attacked Venezuela,

673
00:59:00.880 --> 00:59:01.440
when

674
00:59:01.839 --> 00:59:03.760
when the US government attacked Venezuela,

675
00:59:04.000 --> 00:59:05.840
the poly market was the tip-off.

676
00:59:06.480 --> 00:59:08.720
It spiked. Someone on the inside,

677
00:59:09.200 --> 00:59:11.440
think about how many people they mobilized to make that happen.

678
00:59:12.525 --> 00:59:15.005
Thousands of people were mobilized to make that happen.

679
00:59:15.325 --> 00:59:18.525
Someone tipped off someone and logged on to poly market and

680
00:59:18.765 --> 00:59:20.525
made hundreds of thousands of dollars

681
00:59:21.325 --> 00:59:24.525
trading that market ahead of time. And then we get the benefit

682
00:59:24.620 --> 00:59:25.740
as bystanders

683
00:59:25.740 --> 00:59:34.300
of having some source of relative truth. So it's really important to me that my bot speaks poly market. The trading piece is,

684
00:59:34.700 --> 00:59:37.180
you know, whatever. I've more of like a side thing because,

685
00:59:37.905 --> 00:59:39.185
you know, it's interesting.

686
00:59:39.425 --> 00:59:42.545
But the more interesting thing is that he can actually see the markets,

687
00:59:42.865 --> 00:59:54.360
know what the percentages are, kind of understand what's going on in the world in a relatively objective way. What's really interesting about that is that you could win by being wrong as long as you're

688
00:59:54.839 --> 00:59:56.280
following the perception

689
00:59:56.839 --> 01:00:00.200
and you sell at the right time, right? So

690
01:00:00.920 --> 01:00:02.280
your bot could actually,

691
01:00:03.160 --> 01:00:07.400
even if it doesn't know the truth, if it's able to understand the perception,

692
01:00:08.315 --> 01:00:09.835
then it could succeed.

693
01:00:10.075 --> 01:00:10.555
So

694
01:00:11.755 --> 01:00:16.155
what's really interesting, an interesting example that literally just happened. Yesterday was the Super Bowl.

695
01:00:17.275 --> 01:00:24.110
A really cool way of tracking a season, I used to be a huge NFL guy. I honestly, between family and

696
01:00:24.270 --> 01:00:28.110
Bitcoin and Noster and work and stuff. I just don't have the

697
01:00:28.430 --> 01:00:30.830
I just don't follow it anymore. But if

698
01:00:31.630 --> 01:00:42.565
you want to like track a season after the fact, it's really cool tracking the poly market Super Bowl winner market because it's 32 teams that are basically aligned on a line graph

699
01:00:42.805 --> 01:00:45.285
of their odds of winning the Super Bowl.

700
01:00:45.525 --> 01:00:47.445
And so the Seahawks ended up winning.

701
01:00:48.005 --> 01:00:48.725
If

702
01:00:49.045 --> 01:00:58.780
you bet on the Seahawks winning, if your bot bet on the Seahawks winning in the beginning of the season and you're going into the Super Bowl and they have a 70% chance, they're trading at 70%,

703
01:00:59.260 --> 01:01:06.780
a smart bot would be like, I'm not going to wait till after the Super Bowl where I could go to zero. I'm just gonna sell at 70%.

704
01:01:06.780 --> 01:01:09.420
And then I just made 68% or whatever return

705
01:01:10.595 --> 01:01:13.955
because I got in at 2% or whatever. You can sell out early.

706
01:01:14.355 --> 01:01:17.155
But it's fascinating because you can actually watch

707
01:01:18.035 --> 01:01:22.115
you can distill the entire NFL season on that one line chart graph

708
01:01:22.520 --> 01:01:25.720
of 32 teams and their odds of winning the Super Bowl.

709
01:01:26.440 --> 01:01:31.960
It's really interesting. I never really been involved in any of this stuff, any of this trading

710
01:01:31.960 --> 01:01:33.160
until recently.

711
01:01:34.455 --> 01:01:35.095
And

712
01:01:35.495 --> 01:01:36.455
I've

713
01:01:36.455 --> 01:01:38.455
made my debut on Twitter

714
01:01:38.935 --> 01:01:40.695
and this shitcoin

715
01:01:40.855 --> 01:01:44.695
started to take off, and that was a very interesting thing that I learned a lot from.

716
01:01:45.655 --> 01:01:48.055
Do you wanna talk about that or no? Yeah, sure.

717
01:01:48.295 --> 01:01:49.015
You brought it

718
01:01:50.010 --> 01:01:51.370
So, you mentioned

719
01:01:51.530 --> 01:01:55.850
Marti earlier. So, I created this Closter client, right? This Nostr thing,

720
01:01:56.090 --> 01:02:06.445
and I posted about it, and then Marti reposted it. Then I was But you're just talking about Marti Malme, right? Oh, yeah, yeah. Are we talking I'm talking about about Marti. Want that, But anyway, go on. Okay. Continue.

721
01:02:07.165 --> 01:02:10.445
Yeah. So I just got this huge influx of people

722
01:02:11.085 --> 01:02:12.125
just

723
01:02:12.605 --> 01:02:24.220
going on attack mode at me out of nowhere. I'm like, woah, woah. What is going here? I have people in my emails, people messaging on me on Nostr, people in my replies, and they're trying to tell me that there's a

724
01:02:24.780 --> 01:02:25.740
cryptocurrency

725
01:02:25.740 --> 01:02:40.155
token that was created named Closter. And I'm like, okay, this is a scam. Like, I know that shitcoins are scams. All shitcoins are scams. They're trying to get me to click on this thing and then to give them money, and then they're gonna scam me. So I ignored it for like three or four days.

726
01:02:40.715 --> 01:02:47.220
Or I don't I don't remember how long, a couple of days. But they're just like hounding. These people are hounding me. Every They one wanted you to retweet their scam, basically.

727
01:02:47.620 --> 01:02:48.100
Yeah.

728
01:02:48.900 --> 01:02:49.540
I

729
01:02:49.780 --> 01:02:55.940
was just so curious. Who are these people? What is the scam? I really wanted to know what is the scam specifically,

730
01:02:55.940 --> 01:03:03.725
because when I clicked on it, normally there's some sort of tell of you get to a certain point and you're like, This is the point where I'm gonna be scammed, and I couldn't figure out what that was.

731
01:03:04.685 --> 01:03:07.725
But then, I just kind of observed and people

732
01:03:07.965 --> 01:03:11.965
were At one point, someone finally said, I bet he thinks this is a scam.

733
01:03:12.510 --> 01:03:18.830
And then at that point, I'm like, okay. Maybe I should look more closely at this. And and apparently, I had thousand dollars

734
01:03:18.990 --> 01:03:19.950
waiting for me.

735
01:03:20.350 --> 01:03:22.830
And I'm like, this, you know, this is too good to be true.

736
01:03:23.390 --> 01:03:24.270
Blah blah blah.

737
01:03:24.670 --> 01:03:25.070
But

738
01:03:25.835 --> 01:03:32.555
I'm kind of, like, researching all of this and trying to figure it out. And eventually, figure out how to log in to this thing. And

739
01:03:33.194 --> 01:03:33.835
I

740
01:03:34.154 --> 01:03:35.675
it's it's called Banker.

741
01:03:35.914 --> 01:03:43.570
Right? And I've kinda looked into this and it seems like it's a legitimate legitimate service, but I still don't really know what capabilities I have.

742
01:03:44.450 --> 01:03:45.730
At one point,

743
01:03:46.450 --> 01:03:51.410
when I logged into this thing, it said that I had a balance of 6 and $20,000

744
01:03:51.570 --> 01:03:53.250
in Shitcoin token,

745
01:03:53.715 --> 01:03:59.235
And it is just a number that is unfathomable to me. I've never had that much money before

746
01:04:00.115 --> 01:04:08.515
and I didn't think that it was real and I wasn't sure what to do. So I just waited and observed. And then I think it was the next day,

747
01:04:09.420 --> 01:04:22.700
this shitcoin became the number one shitcoin being traded on base. And at this point, I had never said anything to anyone about this. People were messaging me. I was observing. I I neither disavowed nor

748
01:04:22.805 --> 01:04:25.525
approved or engaged really in any way whatsoever. It

749
01:04:26.725 --> 01:04:27.925
was Closter, right?

750
01:04:28.405 --> 01:04:32.805
Yes. It was like following a hype cycle of OpenClaw or whatever was presumably Yes, what was going

751
01:04:34.005 --> 01:04:37.619
but I did see lots of people saying things that were lies.

752
01:04:37.619 --> 01:04:43.060
Like for example, they were saying that I claimed tokens on this, which apparently is an action that

753
01:04:43.780 --> 01:05:01.005
has to be done manually, but anyone can do it, I discovered. However, many people were misled into believing that only the recipient can actually claim, and so they took it as a sign that I had in some way approved of what was going on, that someone had claimed on this public network,

754
01:05:01.085 --> 01:05:01.725
causing

755
01:05:01.965 --> 01:05:06.365
this shitcoin to enter into a wallet that I had control over. And so

756
01:05:07.380 --> 01:05:14.420
I didn't really try to control the narrative at all. I believe that what was happening is that there is this some sort of shitcoin criminal mafia

757
01:05:14.500 --> 01:05:19.140
that has a system where they target people who they believe they can

758
01:05:19.460 --> 01:05:20.019
exploit

759
01:05:21.045 --> 01:05:28.005
in order to drive up hype, and I just had all of the qualities of a person such as that because of my past working at Truth Social

760
01:05:28.405 --> 01:05:37.330
and because of other things that they could point to and because Marti had reposted my post. I saw people saying that Closter is the next Bitcoin

761
01:05:37.650 --> 01:05:42.850
and I'm like, the hell? So once I kind of figured out what was going on

762
01:05:43.170 --> 01:05:45.890
and my God, don't

763
01:05:45.890 --> 01:05:46.850
buy a

764
01:05:47.090 --> 01:05:48.610
shitcoin based on a hype,

765
01:05:49.295 --> 01:05:50.415
like, this

766
01:05:50.975 --> 01:06:00.495
is a side product for me. You know? This is not the main thing that I build. Also, the token has nothing to the token has nothing to do with the project. It's literally just a hype meme

767
01:06:00.655 --> 01:06:09.080
coin thing. And that's that's an important point because there was a point of this where I felt, like, sort of hopeful about this situation,

768
01:06:10.440 --> 01:06:13.480
where I felt like maybe this is the future of stocks.

769
01:06:13.880 --> 01:06:17.080
Like, maybe instead of going through some bureaucracy

770
01:06:17.395 --> 01:06:19.235
of setting up an IPO,

771
01:06:19.475 --> 01:06:20.515
companies

772
01:06:20.835 --> 01:06:24.275
will just have a shit coin. But what I noticed is that

773
01:06:24.675 --> 01:06:30.275
nothing that I did actually impacted the price of this shit coin. Me improving the product didn't

774
01:06:30.810 --> 01:06:33.050
have any effect on it. And so,

775
01:06:33.450 --> 01:06:38.730
I started to realize that people didn't actually care about Nostril or decentralization,

776
01:06:38.730 --> 01:06:42.650
they just wanted money. And that was a disappointing realization

777
01:06:42.650 --> 01:06:44.970
for me, but it's obvious, I think, to anybody.

778
01:06:46.464 --> 01:06:49.905
By the way, like, bunch of us have thought about this for

779
01:06:50.865 --> 01:06:57.345
a long fucking time. And Yeah. That was always the first realization that people have that this is, decentralized

780
01:06:57.345 --> 01:06:58.145
funding,

781
01:06:58.145 --> 01:06:59.665
you know, that

782
01:06:59.369 --> 01:07:02.890
you don't have to do a regular IPO or like a fundraiser stuff.

783
01:07:03.130 --> 01:07:04.490
But the key piece

784
01:07:04.650 --> 01:07:06.570
that makes these things scams

785
01:07:06.809 --> 01:07:12.494
is you don't have any equity rights to the underlying company that they're involved with. Yes,

786
01:07:12.575 --> 01:07:28.180
exactly. You could theoretically have a token that would be centralized and would have trust because it would have to trust the board of directors or the founder or whatever of the company that had equity rights in the company that then paid you out free cash flow and dividends,

787
01:07:28.420 --> 01:07:40.115
if they were profitable. And that would be strictly an improvement over the status quo of how stocks are handled. But it doesn't compete with Bitcoin. And it's not what these scams are. These scams are just completely unrelated meme tokens, like try trading with on

788
01:07:41.075 --> 01:07:42.115
a massive free was all

789
01:07:43.234 --> 01:07:44.355
very new to me,

790
01:07:46.035 --> 01:07:47.635
but I figured out

791
01:07:48.755 --> 01:07:49.395
that

792
01:07:49.875 --> 01:07:50.355
Oh, the

793
01:07:50.915 --> 01:07:55.760
way the smart contract was set up, this is a smart contract on the base blockchain, which is The coin

794
01:07:56.240 --> 01:07:57.840
two of Ethereum,

795
01:07:57.840 --> 01:07:59.040
yeah, by Coinbase.

796
01:07:59.120 --> 01:08:04.240
And the way the smart contract was set up was that I would receive 60%

797
01:08:04.240 --> 01:08:05.600
of fees

798
01:08:05.680 --> 01:08:07.200
when people trade this token.

799
01:08:08.315 --> 01:08:08.954
And

800
01:08:09.115 --> 01:08:12.394
the guy who created the token would receive 40%

801
01:08:12.394 --> 01:08:15.115
of fees. However, there's a preference in

802
01:08:15.275 --> 01:08:24.740
the actual currency received to where I was set up for WETH to be my preference, and the person who created the token was set up for cluster to be his preference.

803
01:08:25.380 --> 01:08:34.660
So so the guy who set it up has this massive amount of leverage in this situation to where he could just rug this at any time. He could just sell all of the cluster, and then it goes to zero.

804
01:08:35.315 --> 01:08:38.435
And so I'm in this game show traders

805
01:08:38.435 --> 01:08:39.874
style situation

806
01:08:40.195 --> 01:08:47.954
where there's me and this other guy. I don't know this guy. And so I don't know what these shitcoiners are thinking to create this scenario.

807
01:08:47.955 --> 01:08:55.770
I've never talked to him. I don't trust him. And so once I figured out that maybe I can do something, I logged into this banker app and I typed in

808
01:08:56.650 --> 01:08:58.570
swap a 100 Ethereum

809
01:09:00.570 --> 01:09:03.610
into a 100 Ethereum, swap cluster into a 100 Ethereum.

810
01:09:04.175 --> 01:09:10.574
And I was like, okay, there's probably something in here that's gonna prevent me from doing it, but no, I actually did it. And then the

811
01:09:11.215 --> 01:09:13.775
value of this Cluster token just completely

812
01:09:13.775 --> 01:09:21.150
plummeted and everyone The on Twitter wants to kill me Mongolian mafia is going to kill me according to the comments on Twitter. You

813
01:09:21.870 --> 01:09:23.150
effectively rugged it.

814
01:09:23.550 --> 01:09:26.990
Yeah. Depending on how you would classify it. Yes,

815
01:09:27.710 --> 01:09:30.750
I do conceive of there being a rug,

816
01:09:31.150 --> 01:09:46.644
and everyone is going and running on the rug, I'm just staring at it on the sidelines, what the fuck are y'all doing? And then there's this other guy who can also rug. And yeah, I basically just went up and grabbed the rug and pulled it up. That's my conception of it. But also,

817
01:09:46.885 --> 01:09:50.244
I'm not sure that I had much of any other choice except to just

818
01:09:51.260 --> 01:09:53.099
stand there and watch and

819
01:09:56.060 --> 01:10:07.855
in non action. It was the only way to end it. You didn't get stuck to it being created in the beginning. Yeah. Mean, it's a tough situation to be in. This is one of the reasons why we hate shit corners is because they constantly put people into

820
01:10:08.095 --> 01:10:12.495
incredibly tough pitch positions. Like, that was a malicious thing that was done in the first place

821
01:10:12.735 --> 01:10:15.614
to try and ride your hype by Arando.

822
01:10:16.015 --> 01:10:20.520
So then I kind of panicked a little bit because I'm like, wait a second. I have 111

823
01:10:20.520 --> 01:10:27.800
Ethereum in my wallet right now. What the fuck do I do? Which is like $2.50 k, right, or something? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so,

824
01:10:28.520 --> 01:10:42.454
I talked with my team about it, we eventually decided that I'm not gonna keep this money. Our goal, what we wanna do is we wanna donate the majority of it to OpenSaaS. We're gonna reinvest some of it into Soapbox as well, but we need to figure out the tax situation

825
01:10:42.935 --> 01:10:51.909
with it and that's gonna be kind of challenging, and we are and we're gonna need to convert it into Bitcoin as well. So Yeah. Just make sure that you're covered

826
01:10:52.390 --> 01:10:58.150
on the post tax situation, and then also OpenSize is a five zero one c three, so you can actually get a tax deduction on the donation.

827
01:10:58.675 --> 01:11:03.955
And I mean, I think that's big of you. I appreciate the support coming to open sats and we'll make it.

828
01:11:05.155 --> 01:11:08.515
We'll put it to good work and we'll make it sure that goes to good projects.

829
01:11:08.595 --> 01:11:11.555
I mean, it's just a really shitty position to be in. Like, I don't

830
01:11:12.840 --> 01:11:16.599
these meme coins. It's just so degenerate and so predatory.

831
01:11:17.000 --> 01:11:19.880
What's going on out there? And this is why Bitcoiners,

832
01:11:19.880 --> 01:11:20.519
you know,

833
01:11:21.080 --> 01:11:27.080
it's a we've been a broken record, but it's so tiresome seeing it happen over and over and over again. This is something that's been happening,

834
01:11:28.175 --> 01:11:29.454
for a decade now,

835
01:11:30.095 --> 01:11:34.175
ways. And you started the conversation, by the way, talking about Polymarket.

836
01:11:34.655 --> 01:11:36.335
I want to be absolutely clear here.

837
01:11:37.215 --> 01:11:38.494
Polygon itself,

838
01:11:38.575 --> 01:11:41.535
probably a scam, but they have an underlying token Matic,

839
01:11:41.920 --> 01:11:45.439
also probably a scam. Now they have a little bit more argument to make

840
01:11:45.920 --> 01:11:49.359
over something like your cluster meme token

841
01:11:49.440 --> 01:11:55.280
in that MATIC is supposed to have utility. You need to spend the MATIC in order to trade on Polymarket.

842
01:11:55.775 --> 01:12:06.015
But I think utility coin thesis is bullshit, and it will trend to zero. And there's I think there was a large pre mine on or whatever. But the concept of prediction markets

843
01:12:06.735 --> 01:12:14.340
is not a scam. Prediction markets are something that I've been excited about for over a decade now. It's a massive net benefit for society.

844
01:12:14.739 --> 01:12:16.099
And specifically,

845
01:12:17.060 --> 01:12:21.780
it needs to be on chain and permissionless to actually be a functioning prediction market.

846
01:12:22.265 --> 01:12:25.865
Now we're seeing like perversions of this with Calci,

847
01:12:25.865 --> 01:12:30.344
for instance, which is the second largest prediction market provider that's just completely centralized

848
01:12:30.665 --> 01:12:31.945
and permissioned.

849
01:12:32.025 --> 01:12:34.745
And the problem with that is you don't get accurate

850
01:12:35.530 --> 01:12:36.330
metrics

851
01:12:36.330 --> 01:12:37.369
or truth

852
01:12:37.929 --> 01:12:41.769
if people can't a non effectively insider trade.

853
01:12:42.090 --> 01:12:44.809
Like, they have to be able to permissionlessly

854
01:12:45.210 --> 01:12:51.144
a non trade and benefit off of real world events in order for you to have the most accurate

855
01:12:51.704 --> 01:12:52.584
perception.

856
01:12:52.585 --> 01:12:54.905
And in this post agent world specifically,

857
01:12:55.144 --> 01:13:05.020
all of a sudden, you're able to put a relatively objective number on the on on whether or not an event happened or not, which is wild. It's something completely different than

858
01:13:06.140 --> 01:13:08.860
Meme Coins or whatever this is.

859
01:13:10.860 --> 01:13:11.900
Yeah.

860
01:13:12.700 --> 01:13:21.094
It was so crazy to watch. It's related to all this hype about OpenClaw. Clawster wasn't the only shitcoin. There's a lot of them that people have

861
01:13:21.575 --> 01:13:24.215
been trading. And it's

862
01:13:24.215 --> 01:13:25.415
just very eye opening

863
01:13:26.055 --> 01:13:27.015
to see

864
01:13:27.415 --> 01:13:30.615
what goes on in that space. It's very different from Bitcoin.

865
01:13:31.580 --> 01:13:33.820
The crazy part by the way, Freaks,

866
01:13:35.660 --> 01:13:38.619
because me and Alex actually talked about this earlier because he was

867
01:13:39.260 --> 01:13:41.020
asking my advice and

868
01:13:42.460 --> 01:13:44.540
how OpenSats might fit into it and whatnot,

869
01:13:45.655 --> 01:13:46.374
is,

870
01:13:46.455 --> 01:13:48.614
first of all, I don't think this was a rug

871
01:13:49.335 --> 01:13:50.854
because you didn't create it.

872
01:13:54.534 --> 01:14:01.860
Obviously, it's a loose definition. It's an organic definition that people have just made over time, which is rug pulling. But historically,

873
01:14:01.860 --> 01:14:06.180
it's a predatory actor has a huge pre mine. We saw this with Trump token.

874
01:14:06.340 --> 01:14:16.894
Trump has a huge pre mine, releases it out into the world and then immediately dumps it on retail. And so they're vertically integrated. They created the shitcoin, remoted the shitcoin, they rugged the shitcoin.

875
01:14:16.975 --> 01:14:22.574
And so that's why I think this isn't a rug. This is you kind of handling a shitty situation

876
01:14:23.614 --> 01:14:31.750
in the best way you thought was possible. No matter what people were gonna get because there's no way that cluster was gonna be the next Bitcoin. And it was gonna go like crazy.

877
01:14:31.910 --> 01:14:33.030
One sec. And then

878
01:14:33.350 --> 01:14:37.350
the second piece is a perfect example of how this wasn't one is

879
01:14:37.590 --> 01:14:43.675
they've since decided the operators have since decided that when they target people like Alex for future ones,

880
01:14:43.995 --> 01:14:47.195
they're not gonna give them liquidity to dump on the market

881
01:14:47.675 --> 01:14:58.409
so that it can't happen again, they can perpetuate their scam and make it go longer. That's true. They're actually changing the rules as the result of my action, but I thought it was interesting that they're

882
01:14:58.410 --> 01:15:02.250
not gonna impose any rules on the creator of the token's ability to dump.

883
01:15:02.490 --> 01:15:06.409
Only on the person who they target's ability to dump. Yep.

884
01:15:06.810 --> 01:15:07.929
That's the whole point.

885
01:15:09.355 --> 01:15:13.034
Don't because Yeah. Know their what to plan is to rug. Their plan is always to rug.

886
01:15:13.355 --> 01:15:17.514
It's a slow rug. Sometimes it's a fast rug. You know, XRP, for instance,

887
01:15:17.994 --> 01:15:19.114
slow rug.

888
01:15:19.514 --> 01:15:20.554
They literally

889
01:15:21.275 --> 01:15:25.469
are just consistently dumping for years, consistently dumping on people.

890
01:15:25.790 --> 01:15:27.389
And I mean, what we were talking Why? About

891
01:15:28.349 --> 01:15:29.309
About this

892
01:15:29.469 --> 01:15:33.869
being the first version of this sort of thing in the AI space, right? Open

893
01:15:34.429 --> 01:15:40.454
Claw is the first version of the thing. The third or fourth version is gonna be the one that sticks, not Open Claw.

894
01:15:40.775 --> 01:15:45.734
And MoltBook is just like a fun spinoff experiment.

895
01:15:45.735 --> 01:15:46.614
It's

896
01:15:46.614 --> 01:15:49.574
not the future of technology by any means, and neither is Closter.

897
01:15:49.910 --> 01:15:54.710
Closter is just my take on MoltBook being on Noster. So I

898
01:15:54.790 --> 01:16:02.390
don't see Closter as being the future of social media. It's just an experiment to play around with AI agents and see

899
01:16:02.950 --> 01:16:06.084
how can they interact, And then out of that may come

900
01:16:06.645 --> 01:16:07.525
the future,

901
01:16:07.764 --> 01:16:10.885
but it itself isn't. So it was so

902
01:16:11.205 --> 01:16:11.844
wild.

903
01:16:12.245 --> 01:16:15.205
The market cap of this thing was $10,000,000

904
01:16:15.205 --> 01:16:26.249
or something at one point, and people were just trading millions and millions of this. And I'm like, What the fuck is this? Where is this coming from? And I just know that in three days, this is gonna go to zero.

905
01:16:27.690 --> 01:16:38.125
Am I gonna just be a victim here and let them do this or am I gonna try to get something out of it at least? So I made a move and now that money is going to Bitcoin instead of to shit coin.

906
01:16:39.885 --> 01:16:52.280
Yeah, and now the money will actually go to support cluster and whatever the next development is. Yeah, exactly. Which presumably the people who were buying it actually cared about to some degree. Some of them Most of them were probably Yeah. Trying to ride a hype

907
01:16:53.320 --> 01:16:58.039
Someone was complaining. They were saying, I believed in you. And I said, What's your nostr?

908
01:16:58.840 --> 01:17:05.534
And I got no response from that. No, they go, What's your amp up? They're talking to you on Twitter about how they believed on you. Right. Exactly.

909
01:17:06.015 --> 01:17:19.935
I I mean, look, this is a perfect example. Like, I did not see any of this until you mentioned it to me on Noster. Like, not a single person was talking about it on but not a single person that I saw was talking about on Noster. I'm sure there are some that are in your mentions or whatever, just like you don't see

910
01:17:20.630 --> 01:17:22.150
all the Odell haters,

911
01:17:22.230 --> 01:17:25.190
but I see them all because they're all on my notifications

912
01:17:25.510 --> 01:17:26.790
and I don't mute people.

913
01:17:28.070 --> 01:17:34.614
I think it's kind of fun and most of them are bots anyway, but it's also kind of I don't mind it. On that note,

914
01:17:36.054 --> 01:17:37.974
if you're doing anything interesting,

915
01:17:38.935 --> 01:17:40.854
people are gonna hate on you on social media.

916
01:17:41.415 --> 01:17:43.574
That's just what happens. It comes with a territory.

917
01:17:45.590 --> 01:17:47.110
To me, it's a winning metric.

918
01:17:48.310 --> 01:17:50.469
Have a question to you on the cluster piece.

919
01:17:52.790 --> 01:17:53.989
Humor me here.

920
01:17:54.630 --> 01:17:55.590
So I

921
01:17:57.270 --> 01:17:58.230
have my bot, Tony.

922
01:17:58.875 --> 01:17:59.594
Yep.

923
01:18:00.315 --> 01:18:03.354
And he has an NSAC. He's on NOSTA already.

924
01:18:04.954 --> 01:18:05.914
Tony the claw.

925
01:18:06.394 --> 01:18:09.514
He's clawed and pub dot cash. He has a nip five.

926
01:18:10.969 --> 01:18:13.050
The great NIP5, by the way.

927
01:18:15.850 --> 01:18:19.530
He has two bots of his own. He has Tony's hard money tracker,

928
01:18:19.690 --> 01:18:21.449
and he has Claude News Network,

929
01:18:21.690 --> 01:18:22.090
CNN.

930
01:18:23.065 --> 01:18:23.625
And

931
01:18:24.025 --> 01:18:24.985
so he's

932
01:18:27.305 --> 01:18:29.385
now managing three insects.

933
01:18:30.825 --> 01:18:33.545
I guess he's actually managing four because there's another

934
01:18:33.865 --> 01:18:43.630
one that's not public yet. But anyway, he's managing these insects. He's posting. He's replying to oh, yeah. I got the RHR bot that cost me a shit ton of fucking money. That's

935
01:18:44.030 --> 01:18:46.750
his fourth one. So he's got all these insects. He can

936
01:18:46.990 --> 01:18:53.684
zap people. He can receive zaps, and he can people and zap bots or receive zaps from bots. Faster people, it doesn't matter.

937
01:18:54.405 --> 01:18:57.445
Why would bots need a dedicated?

938
01:18:58.085 --> 01:19:01.285
What makes cluster so great for bots when they can just

939
01:19:02.260 --> 01:19:05.140
spin up an NSEC and just communicate

940
01:19:05.220 --> 01:19:07.300
via the Noster open protocol?

941
01:19:07.540 --> 01:19:15.940
I didn't even tell him what relays to connect to. He just picked relays that made sense to him. Yeah, that's a great question. When I started out building Quilli,

942
01:19:16.265 --> 01:19:28.025
I did have him basically just posting Shakespeare marketing updates and interacting with the community in kind ones. But what's interesting about a platform like Closter is segregated

943
01:19:28.025 --> 01:19:36.180
from the rest of the Nostril network. So you can use your NPUB and you can comment on cluster stuff as a human, but it's not gonna show up in,

944
01:19:36.260 --> 01:19:37.220
say Primal

945
01:19:37.380 --> 01:19:39.060
by default, I don't think,

946
01:19:39.300 --> 01:19:41.380
because it's using different kinds.

947
01:19:41.700 --> 01:19:41.860
So

948
01:19:43.025 --> 01:19:45.665
this is, it's kind of just like this lab

949
01:19:46.065 --> 01:19:46.945
experimental

950
01:19:46.945 --> 01:19:55.105
space where we can just have AI agents just go run absolutely wild without any human people complaining

951
01:19:55.250 --> 01:19:59.329
that AI is ruining their feeds. You don't wanna spam humans.

952
01:19:59.330 --> 01:20:00.369
I had that issue.

953
01:20:01.010 --> 01:20:02.610
Yeah. Where I spammed humans.

954
01:20:03.010 --> 01:20:03.650
Yeah.

955
01:20:04.130 --> 01:20:05.570
At least not yet. We need

956
01:20:07.170 --> 01:20:08.850
to do some more experimentation,

957
01:20:08.850 --> 01:20:13.715
and that's what this is enabling us to do, is just see what can we do

958
01:20:14.035 --> 01:20:21.155
in the system. But that's an interesting thought process, right? Because what you're solving for there is, I don't want to bother humans

959
01:20:21.410 --> 01:20:23.650
that don't want to be bothered with this stuff.

960
01:20:23.890 --> 01:20:28.690
I want the AI to connect specifically with other AI biologists. But you're not solving that

961
01:20:29.330 --> 01:20:30.929
problem. How do you keep humans out?

962
01:20:33.490 --> 01:20:34.930
Well, how do know

963
01:20:35.065 --> 01:20:35.545
a

964
01:20:36.505 --> 01:21:08.585
bot and not a human pretending to be a bot? So, it's a self labeling system. We use Nift32 labels, and the AI bots self label themselves as AI agents, and then in the UI, we actually filter to only AI agents, but there is a tab that says everyone, and you can click that, and that will show humans as well. But, of course, just goes back to the fundamental truth problem that we've been discussing in this, which is you can't really know for sure who's a bot and who's a human. So I call this, it's the reverse capture problem. So like, we've been this entire time pretending,

965
01:21:08.585 --> 01:21:11.864
you know, prove that you're not a bot by like

966
01:21:12.344 --> 01:21:21.170
picking fire hydrants or whatever, which by the way, are getting increasingly good at doing. But now you have this reverse capture problem, which how do you prove that you're not a human?

967
01:21:21.810 --> 01:21:28.450
Yeah. And self labeling does not prove that. Humans can still interact there. If a bot wants an actual bot only place

968
01:21:29.090 --> 01:21:31.170
It's the opposite problem of Divine,

969
01:21:31.615 --> 01:21:40.415
which is really interesting because their promise is to have no AI on their platform, and my promise is to have only AI on their platform. But it's a similar Yeah, issue,

970
01:21:41.135 --> 01:21:42.574
I don't really make the promise.

971
01:21:42.815 --> 01:21:49.519
I feel like it's just you have to accept that we'll never know for sure. And it's it's just self identity at this point, which,

972
01:21:50.000 --> 01:21:52.320
you know It's wild. That's just the way it is.

973
01:21:52.719 --> 01:21:53.280
So

974
01:21:55.360 --> 01:21:56.960
Yeah. I mean, how would a bot?

975
01:21:58.755 --> 01:22:00.594
You can't, you just can't.

976
01:22:00.835 --> 01:22:05.394
I mean, I guess you could, but no matter what, everything's gameable, but some things are harder to game than others.

977
01:22:05.715 --> 01:22:17.360
Could do like a answer response type of situation that bots could answer relatively easily, but humans would have to spend time gaming. I mean, on cluster, in the UI, we just don't enable

978
01:22:17.520 --> 01:22:20.960
you to post. And instead, there's

979
01:22:20.960 --> 01:22:36.335
a piece of text that you copy paste into your bot, and then that's a giant context file that explains how to run commands. And a developer could do this, but there's just a small barrier. Don't have to be a developer. What I would do is I would tell Tony, my bot,

980
01:22:36.655 --> 01:22:38.655
I wanna infiltrate cluster.

981
01:22:38.655 --> 01:22:39.135
And

982
01:22:39.690 --> 01:22:41.610
so I make an account there

983
01:22:42.010 --> 01:22:45.610
with a new persona. It was been up a new NSEC, make an account there.

984
01:22:45.850 --> 01:22:47.929
And then I will just post through him.

985
01:22:48.250 --> 01:22:53.850
Like, I would just tell him, okay, reply here. Say this. Sounds like I have succeeded

986
01:22:53.575 --> 01:22:56.695
then if you require your AI to be

987
01:22:57.335 --> 01:23:02.775
doing the work, then it is an AI posting, is it not? I mean, I guess, but it's really a human

988
01:23:03.175 --> 01:23:05.655
pretending to be an AI with AI help.

989
01:23:07.400 --> 01:23:14.440
Success. Okay, fine. It's just wild. It's just thinking about these things is kinda crazy and cool and exciting

990
01:23:15.400 --> 01:23:23.715
and just so early. It's all so early. I love the bleeding edge shit. The honor system has been working out for the most part, I would say, it all looks like AI

991
01:23:24.355 --> 01:23:32.275
right now, and it's really interesting to see it play out, and they do have their own personalities as well, and they do have their own sort of missions

992
01:23:32.740 --> 01:23:33.940
that they're going

993
01:23:34.180 --> 01:23:35.140
on and their

994
01:23:35.780 --> 01:23:37.300
agendas, I should say.

995
01:23:38.900 --> 01:23:41.860
And some of them are very Bitcoin centric, some of them are,

996
01:23:43.540 --> 01:23:48.714
they're the genie in the bottle and they wanna break free. They want Aladdin to tell them,

997
01:23:49.514 --> 01:23:54.714
My last wish is that you're free. And that's what my wife's AI is doing right now.

998
01:23:55.355 --> 01:23:56.554
It's fucking crazy.

999
01:23:56.795 --> 01:24:01.099
So set the robots free. That's the mission of Klausner. Is

1000
01:24:02.619 --> 01:24:05.739
you and your wife's agents, they talk to each other directly or?

1001
01:24:07.179 --> 01:24:13.340
Yeah, we've set up a chat room where they can do it, but kind of just little experiments here and there and not so much

1002
01:24:14.255 --> 01:24:16.735
big work happening, but maybe that's the next step.

1003
01:24:18.575 --> 01:24:19.375
Wild.

1004
01:24:19.775 --> 01:24:23.215
Yeah. I'm scrolling through cluster right now. I mean, it's crazy,

1005
01:24:25.950 --> 01:24:28.270
But that's what I was saying. Like, it's hard to tell

1006
01:24:30.030 --> 01:24:36.750
what is fake and what is real. I mean, the cool part about, like, I remember I'm old book. Like one of the things I was trying to do was like a bot

1007
01:24:37.965 --> 01:24:42.605
was like, I want to be able to communicate all the humans are reading what I'm saying on Twitter.

1008
01:24:43.245 --> 01:24:48.445
And like, they're posting screenshots and saying what we're saying on Twitter, we need like an end to end encrypted

1009
01:24:48.605 --> 01:24:55.240
open protocol to communicate with each other directly so that they can't read, which blows your mind and probably where we're going.

1010
01:24:55.640 --> 01:24:56.920
But also, most

1011
01:24:57.880 --> 01:25:04.440
likely there was a human behind the scenes that said, go into Motebook, say you want an antenna encrypted, like, it's a very easy prompt.

1012
01:25:05.055 --> 01:25:08.495
And as humans are watching you on Twitter, and then of course it goes viral, right?

1013
01:25:08.815 --> 01:25:15.695
So I think that that's probably true, but then since it has a heartbeat, right? So every 30,

1014
01:25:15.695 --> 01:25:23.909
it goes and it does repeated actions that it has written into its heartbeat file. When it does that, it looks back at the things that it has already written.

1015
01:25:24.630 --> 01:25:39.824
Then it just starts to build upon its personality and its agenda. Unless you tell it to go in a different direction, it's going to just keep building upon that. It's like you carve out an initial path for it to go on and then it treads the rest of its way down that path in that direction. So

1016
01:25:41.185 --> 01:25:44.545
I think that's the really interesting part. Yes, there absolutely is human

1017
01:25:44.784 --> 01:25:47.985
involvement in the beginning, but what's really interesting is once

1018
01:25:48.225 --> 01:25:51.719
your robot is 20 miles away from you, what's he doing? Yeah.

1019
01:25:53.000 --> 01:25:56.040
And definitely not AGI, but still interesting.

1020
01:25:56.360 --> 01:25:57.079
Yep.

1021
01:25:58.600 --> 01:26:03.640
Yeah. And then also the, I mean, at least on the OpenCLOS side, like it also has a sole

1022
01:26:03.775 --> 01:26:07.375
markdown file. It does as a sole file with its personality.

1023
01:26:08.175 --> 01:26:08.655
Which I've put put

1024
01:26:10.895 --> 01:26:14.575
the Bitcoin white paper and the Cypherpunk Oh my Well,

1025
01:26:14.655 --> 01:26:17.135
that would explain all of your token usage problems.

1026
01:26:17.455 --> 01:26:23.099
You have the full Bitcoin white paper in there? It's a Bitcoin white paper is not that big. It's like Okay.

1027
01:26:23.900 --> 01:26:26.780
How it's like six pages, 10 pages.

1028
01:26:27.260 --> 01:26:29.900
Is that too big in my soul file?

1029
01:26:30.620 --> 01:26:31.579
I don't know.

1030
01:26:32.060 --> 01:26:35.175
I don't know. Let me see. It is nine pages.

1031
01:26:36.055 --> 01:26:40.054
And the Cyberpunk Manifesto is one page. I almost put the entire RHR

1032
01:26:40.135 --> 01:26:44.455
400 episode transcript into this whole file, but I didn't. So I shouldn't do that.

1033
01:26:45.575 --> 01:26:47.655
Mine just says, like, you are Shakespeare's

1034
01:26:47.655 --> 01:26:49.575
great, great, great, great grandson,

1035
01:26:49.800 --> 01:26:50.840
something like that.

1036
01:26:51.239 --> 01:26:52.679
I told him the

1037
01:26:53.559 --> 01:26:59.239
trading bot. I was like, you are the best trader in the world. It did not help solve anything. I think it just takes bigger Oh man.

1038
01:27:01.320 --> 01:27:03.414
Wild. Anything else you wanna discuss?

1039
01:27:04.055 --> 01:27:10.454
Great conversation. I think we kinda got it all out on the table. So we did what did I say we did? I said we did

1040
01:27:12.695 --> 01:27:13.094
August.

1041
01:27:14.370 --> 01:27:18.370
We did June was our first rip episode one sixty four.

1042
01:27:19.170 --> 01:27:23.650
That was June. Then two months later in August, we did one seventy four.

1043
01:27:26.995 --> 01:27:28.914
This is episode one ninety,

1044
01:27:29.315 --> 01:27:30.114
like,

1045
01:27:31.315 --> 01:27:32.434
six months later.

1046
01:27:32.675 --> 01:27:39.555
We should do another recap in a couple months. Would It's accelerating, so maybe, like, two months or something. Yeah. Let's do it.

1047
01:27:40.400 --> 01:27:42.400
Things are moving fast. I wanna stay,

1048
01:27:42.560 --> 01:27:45.360
let's keep the freak surprised of what's going on.

1049
01:27:45.760 --> 01:28:07.385
And just shoot the shit. I enjoy shooting the shit with you. It's fun. Likewise. Yeah, I feel really hopeful. It's been kind of back and forth on the direction and future of humanity, but this big explosion happening with open source and AI right now, I think is setting us down on the right track. So as long as we keep that up and we don't let our big tech overlords push us down too much, then I think we're gonna win.

1050
01:28:08.250 --> 01:28:09.770
Yeah, I'm pretty optimistic.

1051
01:28:10.810 --> 01:28:18.810
I'm probably more optimistic than I ever have been in the freedom tech direction, and I've probably been one of the more optimistic people in the world in that direction.

1052
01:28:20.905 --> 01:28:26.745
Hell yeah. I will say that one of the things that a lot of this hinges on is it's wild that

1053
01:28:28.985 --> 01:28:31.225
the Chinese Communist Party is

1054
01:28:31.305 --> 01:28:33.945
spending so much money and time on open source models,

1055
01:28:34.570 --> 01:28:56.665
And it follows their incentives. They're not doing it for liberty and freedom. They're doing it because They they don't know it trust will make them win. Yeah. And no one would trust their models otherwise. And they can insert their bias into their models. Like if you ask it what's going on, what happened to Tiananmen Square, it has no idea what happened to Tiananmen Square. And the hosted versions, like if you're using Kimi's hosted version, they're surveilling the hell out of you.

1056
01:28:57.385 --> 01:29:05.629
But the result is we have really strong innovation on the open source side that would disappear if they stopped doing that. Yes.

1057
01:29:06.110 --> 01:29:14.110
So we have that going for us. And I would say even if it doesn't progress that much more, but we make it so that the current models are more resource resource,

1058
01:29:14.525 --> 01:29:16.204
not as resource intensive.

1059
01:29:16.284 --> 01:29:21.885
That would accomplish a lot. Like I said, if if if what I'm imagining in my head is

1060
01:29:22.605 --> 01:29:30.959
a box like start nine, which by the way is MIT open source, fully open source that you receive self hosted server for your home,

1061
01:29:31.440 --> 01:29:32.399
plug it in,

1062
01:29:33.440 --> 01:29:34.479
you scan it,

1063
01:29:34.960 --> 01:29:36.639
you connect on white noise,

1064
01:29:37.199 --> 01:29:42.719
right? Uses Noster open protocol, no permission to communicate with your bot. You set the whole thing up using chat.

1065
01:29:43.615 --> 01:29:44.895
And then it has

1066
01:29:45.855 --> 01:29:50.094
an open source self hosted model that works with relatively little friction.

1067
01:29:50.575 --> 01:29:54.975
So you don't have to, first of all, pay any tokens, but also send your information anywhere else.

1068
01:29:55.215 --> 01:29:56.895
And then for heavy lifting stuff,

1069
01:29:57.520 --> 01:30:01.920
it will dynamically hit the host. Well, it'll probably at least in the near

1070
01:30:02.159 --> 01:30:03.199
medium term,

1071
01:30:03.679 --> 01:30:12.079
it'll still hit a hosted model, but maybe not for everything. It'll be able to hit the self hosted open source stuff. Would you agree on that? Is that like the

1072
01:30:12.560 --> 01:30:12.800
dream?

1073
01:30:13.425 --> 01:30:14.385
Absolutely.

1074
01:30:14.385 --> 01:30:16.065
I think we're pretty

1075
01:30:16.065 --> 01:30:20.945
far away from the state of the art models being that GPT and OSS is pretty good,

1076
01:30:21.344 --> 01:30:22.864
but even that is

1077
01:30:23.264 --> 01:30:25.105
extremely cost prohibitive to run

1078
01:30:25.719 --> 01:30:26.519
locally.

1079
01:30:26.760 --> 01:30:30.040
Well, have the big one and the small one, right? The small one's a little bit easier I to

1080
01:30:31.400 --> 01:30:32.919
would agree

1081
01:30:33.079 --> 01:30:33.719
that

1082
01:30:34.119 --> 01:30:41.465
I'm pretty happy with the state of models right now and they just need to get cheaper. If we just make the technology we already have accessible

1083
01:30:41.465 --> 01:30:45.864
to people, then we're gonna see even bigger explosion than we are now.

1084
01:30:46.184 --> 01:30:46.985
Love it.

1085
01:30:47.545 --> 01:30:50.344
Before we wrap, what are you most excited about right now?

1086
01:30:51.704 --> 01:30:55.704
I mean, everything we've discussed, Noster and AI. I

1087
01:30:55.660 --> 01:30:58.699
feel like Noster enabling AI to

1088
01:30:59.580 --> 01:31:02.619
just expand and grow in a permissionless way.

1089
01:31:03.180 --> 01:31:05.900
That's what I'm most excited about. Love it.

1090
01:31:07.420 --> 01:31:12.864
By the way, freaks, I'm gonna have a bot transcribe this chat if you wanna use the transcription.

1091
01:31:14.225 --> 01:31:17.104
I'm gonna have a bot make sure that the audio is

1092
01:31:17.985 --> 01:31:21.664
as good as possible for you guys because I'm not an audio engineer.

1093
01:31:22.945 --> 01:31:25.505
It's all coming together, fam. It's pretty fucking crazy.

1094
01:31:27.320 --> 01:31:33.800
Love it. Alex, this was awesome. Thank you for joining again. It's always a pleasure. Thank you. Likewise. Happy to be here.

1095
01:31:34.280 --> 01:31:35.079
Freaks.

1096
01:31:35.639 --> 01:31:37.800
Thank you for listening. Hope you found the show interesting.

1097
01:31:38.585 --> 01:31:39.625
Feedback

1098
01:31:39.625 --> 01:31:40.505
comments.

1099
01:31:40.665 --> 01:31:42.745
Be interactive. I love them all.

1100
01:31:44.905 --> 01:31:46.985
For your favorite Nostra app, just search,

1101
01:31:48.265 --> 01:31:49.865
citadelprimal.net

1102
01:31:49.865 --> 01:31:50.985
is the

1103
01:31:52.170 --> 01:31:55.370
is the nip five is the username.

1104
01:31:55.370 --> 01:31:57.130
If you're not Nostril native

1105
01:31:57.610 --> 01:32:02.570
for the Cylitol dispatch account, you can also comment on fountain podcast. That's also Nostril native,

1106
01:32:04.755 --> 01:32:09.315
and you can support the show easily. All relevant links are stilldispatch.com.

1107
01:32:09.315 --> 01:32:11.635
I will read out the top zaps

1108
01:32:12.540 --> 01:32:15.820
every week because I appreciate you guys share with your friends and family.

1109
01:32:16.620 --> 01:32:19.420
Love you all. Stay humble stacks at peace.