CMCL Interview: Jamie Shields

Transcript

00:00.70

Julie

All right, welcome to another episode of changing minds and changing lives. My name is Julie Sowash I am still the executive director of disability solutions and I'm so happy that you all have joined us for another episode today I just want to take a second and thank Andrea dell ceo and founder of the seated position for joining us on our last episode. It was just a fantastic conversation with such a powerful voice in not just our community but the healthcare community and if you haven't listened I definitely want you to go back and take a quick lesson listen it's about 25 minute conversation she is phenomenal new to me so hopefully new to you as well and and a great new connect I am also so so so so so excited to announce that wes hamilton of queer eye fame and founder of disabled but not really has agreed to join us on a future episode of the podcast I am a complete fan girl. If that's not obvious and um if you have not seen wes's queer eye or know anything about his amazing network of gyms gyms across the country that are for people with disabilities we will put in the show notes. Um, a link to that episode of queer eye and a link to wes's page about him and about his gym. So amazing. But today I am also very excited to welcome jamie shields who I have to tell you there are several people on my team at disability solutions who are fangirling over jamie.

01:30.59

Julie

And love the work and the content that you've been putting out over the last year or so Jamie is our first guest from across the pond. He's joining us from Belfast Northern Ireland Today Jamie is the Ceo and founder of disabled by society disabled by society.com if you want to check it out. He's been recognized as 1 of the hundred most influential disabled people in the Uk and is on the diversity power list which sounds awesome that recognizes the best of the best d and I d I champions across the Uk welcome to changing minds changing lives jamie.

02:06.89

Jamie

Thank you so much for half of me. Um, when I was listening to you give that introduction. Firstly I'm obsessed with queer eye as well. So I am so I'm so jealous I'll be listening to that episode of but secondly that bio makes me sound amusing. So thank you.

02:15.45

Julie

Um.

02:20.55

Julie

But well I just read it. You did the work so you see you seem pretty amazing. Um, so tell me give me your thirty second Twitter bio who is Jamie Shields tell me a little bit more about you.

02:31.41

Jamie

Yes, so um I described myself as a register blind Orie Hits D Rhino because I'm aistic I made to hit D Um, apparently I collect disabilities I book among cards the older I get the more I learn about myself. Um, and I essentially help brands make inclusive.

02:49.47

Julie

So I love we were exchanging emails when we were getting ready to do this podcast together and I love your signature line and so I just want to catch that again. Tell me what your signature line says because you just said it to me.

02:49.63

Jamie

Accessible change.

03:02.30

Jamie

03:09.50

Julie

Ah, okay, thank you so in America that means republican in name only so I've been trying to ponder what that could possibly mean the rhino part. Um for several weeks. So thank you for joining us I'm so so excited you have such an interesting background that.

03:12.24

Jamie

Are.

03:26.99

Julie

Really speaks to just my passion and our passion at disability solutions about helping companies. Really hire people with disabilities really retain and grow that talent and you know that's really where your background is too and you know so from. The companies that we work with and american ta leaders that I talked to on a regular basis. It seems to be like there's ah, a pretty good deal of interest in hiring and and figuring out sort of how does the Uk work for hiring people with disabilities and a lot of times I feel like. Uk is doing better than we are as americans um, which I don't love to say but I do feel like is true. You know, kind of from your perspective just I would say both your lived perspective but also your professional. Um, kind of your business and consulting perspective. How is the u k doing and and specifically how is Northern Ireland doing

04:28.50

Jamie

Yeah, um I think I'll I'll always I always preface this question. Ah by saying I think this parts of the world that do so much better than other countries like for example, Germany they have a such a better support for disabled person with an employment. It's harder to dismiss the disabled person. They have tax benefits. They have an earlier retirement age and there's proper laws and blis you really support that individual whereas we don't have up in the Uk. Um, so I always say theres parts of the world that do really good. But I think we just need to kind of come together better globally don't we to kind ass share notes and say what is best practice. Um. So for me I think the u k I think we do some things right? and I think a lot of what we do and what we see is actually quite performative. Um, so for example within the u k we have what's called a disability confidence scheme with is a government led scheme that is meant to help employers. Attract and retain disabled talent. There's 3 levels of accreditation level. 1 is you sign up and it's a commitment. We're going to hire disabled people and we're gonna retain them which sounds great level. Two is a self-assess which is you declare yourself a confident employer. We are confidently doing these actions and then to get to level 3 you have to go get a self-ass assessments. So it an assessment through a third party so that third party could be somebody else who is disability confident. It could be a clad. It could be fred or you may be somebody that you've just outsourced completely is it a confidence scheme when does it install confidence in disabled job seekers that is no.

06:00.44

Julie

Yeah, okay.

06:02.31

Jamie

A for the levels 1 and 2 we see a lot of performers of work in the space. There's no man mandatory reporting and there's no nobody kind of coming and checking in and this and say what are he's actually doing to retain this accreditation. So I think in theory it's science. Great. But I think in reality we don't we don't see that action and I think as well if we look at particularly with Northern Ireland I think northern iland is such a so little jamstone of the world with this colorful history. Um, but when we look at the current in of Northern Ireland we haven't we have our own government so we don't we don't take moneyed from the Uk of we have our own government to decide how those laws will kind of ship and maybe be changed to kind of suit northern allland which is performed under the good Friday agreement. However, we haven't had a work in government until last week for almost I think 5 years for but.

06:52.66

Julie

5 years

06:55.67

Jamie

It'd actually been longer. There was a political back I don't under traffic word a political gu where parties didn't want to sit in government together because of 1 party was predominantly catholic the other is predominantly protestant and for the first time in hastu. We had a predominantly catholic party be elected as spanish minister. The other party who's always a part of and like that. So. There's been a lot of games going on and unfortunately Northern Ireland has just kind of slipped onto the rio or um, we have a work in government now though as of last week so it isn't um, but a lot has to be caught up. You know if we look got things in particularly around the neurodiverse space even in.

07:27.67

Julie

Congratulations.

07:34.59

Jamie

Northern allland no for northern allland to get referral to get an assessment for adh d or autism or any other kind of your divergence. You could be waiting in three plus years if you want to ibert the private weight list the two plus years and I think for me that is such a big challenge and I'm not saying the uk has a perfect.

07:44.79

Julie

Um, oh my gosh.

07:52.96

Jamie

Because the Uk is just as bad as part of the Uk with 7 years but I think when we look at the Uk. We start to kind of go beneath what are governments apartment there or what we see on social media I think when you start to really look beneath the you notice so many failins and things have been done to standard has been quite performative. So I think there's a lot of work that needs to go on. Um, and I think everywhere has that I think we are always our own risk critique in away aren't we when when you live something and you you're daily. You're you're easier to critique. It. But I think some of the good that we see is I think we see a lot of advocates standing up in the u k now a lot of different organizations forming. Who are saying enough is enough use have had the chances of government to fix this and use have and went beyond. In fact, our government just got rid of her disability minister. But that's a whole other story and you in a journey already.

08:43.22

Julie

So I I swear we could probably talk for an hour just on what you just said because it it was a rich amount of information a lot of it I hadn't quite put together and and some of it I did know um 1 thing that you said. That that really caught me is the performative right? and so you know in America we have companies that pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to do a self-assessment on how great of a disability inclusive employer. They are. And when we talk to our clients I'm like you know what? that is a really great pr activity. It's a fantastic pr activity and when you're actually hiring people with disabilities and you've got your disability kind of ducks in a row inside your company then that's a great time to have that conversation. But no company on the planet should be getting 100% and they shouldn't be getting 100 % year over year it's such aloney I will say.

09:39.40

Jamie

No. I know what we're talking about I know what accreditational is because I um I worked like I based in the Uk but I work full time for companies. Love as long as at the side of being a founder and Ceo need to get you to sense you there. Um.

09:57.54

Julie

Yes.

10:00.23

Jamie

But for me, you know I work globally as our recruitment um or just a disability and setibility lead and I think for me the shift with clouds and this space and when they when they see these accreditations are these awards or scales of awards and they jump for it I like but you haven't done the work if you haven't done the work How you' expect to the place so high in a list.

10:17.40

Julie

Yes, yes, you haven't done the work I mean and that's the perfect way to say it because like we kind of we say this is a lifetime's worth of work and if you think you've finished you've failed you need to keep going.

10:19.27

Jamie

And then they end up placing. Yeah.

10:33.66

Julie

Um, and so I think that you know we are seeing not only kind of a rise in America in the same way of that sort of you know we're tired of you slapping on a badge. We're tired of you. You know doing x y z that you paid a lot of money for. Want to see numbers I want to see hires I want to see retention. Um, and and that is actually what matters um and and then the other thing that you said that I really I think is so important that is missed I would say almost universally by whether it's government or it's.

10:52.12

Jamie

Yeah, yeah.

11:10.54

Julie

Corporations is that they never think about us at the beginning there. There's always this like hey we're putting in a new applicant tracking system hey we're doing all of these de things and they go. Oh yeah, those disabled folks they'd probably be.

11:13.46

Jamie

No.

11:24.39

Jamie

Tech.

11:27.00

Julie

Maybe like ten months after we started 10 years after we started um and and then even more holistically how you mentioned Germany and the things that they do as a population that help support people with disabilities. Much ah sooner in their lives and more holistically so a lot of times I'm talking to companies now and I'm going hey you know what? Union rights are disability rights labor rights our disability rights return to office policies are impacting disability rights healthcare all those things and. You know to kind of come back to the Uk if I can full circle this little journey that we're on here for a second a lot of my friends who primarily live in England um, have been talking to me about how alarmed they are lately about some of the the moves that the current prime minister bachi sunak. Um, has or is putting in place regarding sort of removal of certain legal protections for people with disabilities who either are not able to work or haven't found a disability confident employer yet. Can you speak to what you're seeing from. Ritchie Sunakkin if I'm correct the labor party how that's sort of changing the employment conversation for you guys.

12:47.24

Jamie

Yeah I think for me, what was helpful and I'm not surprised like um and this is the thing I think we when we see governments act out like this I think why are we surprised? We just have to look at the periods of what they're doing to other marginalized identities and you know we've seen this prime minister. Who by the way isn't elected prime minister. We didn't choose him his party chose so he wasn't actually elected bad people because that party hasn't been able for a leader this and Donki knows how long um, but for me I look at it and I think well look what they've been doing to the transit community. You know we had the global um headlines around the death of Breanna Gray

13:06.23

Julie

Yeah.

13:20.15

Julie

Um, yeah.

13:22.80

Jamie

Um, who was murdered for being a transju person but yet a prime minister sat in ah ah the chamber last week as our parents were in the chamber and openly made a comment that disregarded it was basically around the identity and how we were confused and female identity and it was just like this. Child's parents are in the gallery and you are openly being transfulberg and then we look at the party and the behaviors that going on with the party and then I think to myself are we surprised we are coming up to general action. This party is trying to now converse and kind of sway the very hard extreme right? to show you. We're we're not taking de more. We're not. We are're not dealing with trans rights or disability rights and I think to myself again and why are we surprised like we've seen this slowly build and then I think when it comes in the facts now just to affect in the disabled community and you'd said it before you know you can't just have 1 right and deny the rights of another. Trans right? to disabled rights. Um, your rights as lgb t key I a plus person is still disabled rights. These rights all intoacted and that's where we need to be looking at disability through that intersexual ads. But for me, there's a I think I see a fear and I think of my own journey. So i. Been very privileged I have a job now four and a half years I now have my own side business but I struggled for all of my life I had more jobs than hot dinners I struggled to routine and gain employment I was ghosted I was rejected I was you can't be disabled or we don't hire disabled people. So this attitude is already. There.

14:53.88

Jamie

Um, for me I look back at that and I think do I see an improvement from when four and a half years ago to now in the job market or the scale of lot of the employment market and I don't it's exactly to see him I have friends who still going to through the same process friends who get rejected because they've asked for lot adjustment accommodation which. By the way we know is illegal but there's no paper trail for this. So I think for me I see the fear and I see what the government's trying to do I see it as almost like a scar tactic by them to scare to see the people into work when they think it's this really easy thing that we can do. They don't actually acknowledge the fact or sit down and listen to disabled job seekers or people who have struggled they haven't listened to that that experience what is saying well actually it's not that we don't want these jobs. It's that we're tried and we're failing. They're not accessible. They're not inclusive and when we do come and try to to apply. We're rejected. Ah but so soon as we share. So I think the government here is I think for me, it's a part of a beggar craft out of d within the U K because they chad to get those votes. But I think if this party is voted out I really hope this next government comes in and stepss in because we cannot Mindy disabled people to be going to offices to work in. If they're going to struggle to retain that employment because it's all well and good to harriss. But you've got to be able to upskin this develop us promote us because again it all comes down to that performance and for me look I'm 34 now and I know I don't look over 21? Um, but for myself I think I um.

16:22.73

Julie

And.

16:28.62

Jamie

I didn't get promoted until I was over 30 but I didn't know what it meant to feel belonging in the workplace and it wasn't through want to try because I would take Annie Job I had so many jobs and call centers which I could never use the systems I didn't get adjustments but I tried and I think if the metal there.

16:29.55

Julie

Wow.

16:47.13

Jamie

The mental health implications that had to me as it is a disabled person I wouldn't wish that in anybody. So do we really want to get into a place where push disabled people into roles that are not going to fulfill them that are not going to stay in them and how do we support the backlash that how do we support? What will become a national crisis.

16:47.58

Julie

Are.

17:05.75

Jamie

With the impact set and psychological trauma that is able internalized eism because that's all we're going to foster as individuals they will struggle so flowwin to dancer this government I think I don't know I i' say this flow and I hope it's okay, but we need to go.

17:22.90

Julie

Oh please I want you to say exactly what you think and and I just happened to agree I was I was in um London for ta tech in December and I saw sunac's conference on the immigration crackdown and it was terrifying.

17:23.96

Jamie

They need to go? Ah yeah.

17:38.40

Jamie

Um, yet like.

17:40.00

Julie

And and had dinner with a friend who is who lives just in London and he's blind and he kind of started talking to me about how they're going to be changing these policies in these these employment schemes and I I think that I saw him go through this journey. Um, and he got a job about a year ago with an amazing company, but it was 2 years that honestly I worried about him on a regular basis because he was applying and applying we redid his resume or his cv we did all of the things. And there was no reason for him not to have a job other than that every time he walked in to an interview that the hiring manager just completely shut down I think. Pushing that back into I love the way that you brought that together on the internalized ableism to continuously force people into situations where they're not going to be successful is going to drive up. Mental health issues suicides those types of things that we are so vulnerable to as people who live with disabilities in ways that people without disabilities also experience but can't understand in the same lived experience. So I appreciate you.

19:05.57

Julie

Full disclosure for the audience I asked Jamie before if we could have like a mini political conversation because this is such interesting kind of connotations for me. Um, as well as just being a political junkie. So I appreciate you indulging me and that.

19:19.66

Jamie

Oh here and I I said open book I will throw everything out a conversation include the kitchen said. But I think it's It's so important though I think this is what we we don't see enough in this space though is that we don't see disabled people talk about politics. We don't see disabled people talking about sex. We don't see them talk about relationships.

19:25.83

Julie

Till one day

19:38.96

Jamie

It's like we are scapgoed to this one conversation around employment and it's like we're being impacted and all these other arias a society bring us in the conversation. We're not just just disabled speaker for disabled events disabled experience is part of the human experience invite us to everything.

19:40.70

Julie

Okay.

19:52.89

Julie

Yes, and and so you know I I love that because so often in America again we have national disability employment awareness month and that's what companies always used to celebrate as their heritage month for people with disabilities. And when it started and like I think it was like just after world war two. It was called hire the handicapped week which was great. Um, ah but I would get so frustrated with companies I'm like guys. It's disability employment month and you're not talking about.

20:29.11

Julie

Us as as people humanly as as a holistic version of you know a person who wants to get to work. Yes, who wants to be able to raise their family who wants to get married who wants to go to the club on Friday night. Whatever they want to do it is just treated as this one dimensional thing of employment. And we've seen kind of a shift I would say over the last couple of years to um disability pride month. Um, which I think is is still too performative but it's showing us that we're making us step in the right direction in terms of the conversation and that's what has to change first. Are you seeing that shift in in your world at all or is it still very much that employment only focus.

21:12.90

Jamie

I think disability pride month is a really interesting one because it originated in the us and we're now seeing that kind of being knocked out and rolled out across the world. This sense of pride and I feel the same as you these you in the companies I've worked that we call the milestones. And I've always thought well these are really performative because you know we're just getting people to talk about the topic and we're not seeing actual action. Um, and so when I became ah e r g lead. My first mission was to to try. We actually make action here. So I think every milestone that we've ever celebrated and I think we've celebrated few across the year and now newdiversity celebration week disability pride month international day of persons with disability and probably miss someone up national disability employment with awareness month. You know these medicines what we actually targeted to do was how do we get our colleagues to actually talk about what they want to say or how do we educate about the barriers that people will never understand or how do we break down. Ah, conversation that unless you've loved experience. You're not gonna be able to fully engage or participate with so we created learning videos so that each milestone the how to be a certain amount of for educational resources created before we would even consider starting a panel. Um, but I also think for disability pride month. It's. We've started seeing at the Uk and you know we last year had expedition for the first time which was done by um, disability expo when they held together this 3 day two-day conference and there was thousands of disabled people who came together to kind of share and talk and there was panels and.

22:44.41

Jamie

It was all sein all danceson and it was really great and I think I like to see that as ah, where's the community in these events because that's the problem is we don't see ourselves before employment and it's the same in the Uk. You know a lot of the support even that you go out and if you're at these kind of conventions or expeditions a lot of support is towards. A certain type of disability a physical disability a wheelchair user and then I think of people like myself I like was' all, well good for me to go and support these things but what? what? What do I take away from this as a registereded blind person. What support have I run into what incredible adjustment that I've never seen before and it doesn't happen. So I think. The the there's a stillest gap of knowledge is their own disability that people still feel to understand the diversity of disability or the complexity of disability and I think that behind these milestones I wish that we would push that education out.

23:30.80

Julie

Here.

23:39.75

Jamie

More than the you I don't care what you Ceo was going to say on disability pride fun I don't care what they're going to say in a panel on international day I want to know what your colleagues to say I want to see what you're doing because for me those mouthstones are and this is what I advise my clients is they're not tech box. Yes I'm done.

23:55.57

Julie

23:57.76

Jamie

They're they' reflections. Okay so international day is your end of year. What have you done in the past twelve months what did you target yourself on last year or more if you got to disability pride month I know seven months into the year but I will say that's your midpoint look what you've done at started that month. We'd go through review your colleagues and for the next six months ste

24:11.30

Julie

24:16.78

Jamie

So yes, she used these milestones because the opportunities I think to create for people like myself or speakers or people who are trainers who are on likeedin and like use this to bring those people in but equally make sure what you're working on is actually drive and change. Um, so. I was often tanged though. But I think I'd summarized by saying that I think these medicine so important and I think in the Uk we didn't have as many for disability. But I think last year was probably the first year in a very long time I've seen a boom with disability pride month and I loved it because I just love seeing these companies actually. Hiring disabled people and my clients themselves bringing in people to speak or as I said to create resources and I look at those resources now in January and just be other dead somebody email and say can we use these resources with clients and I read no but we can make them with your client. So. It's a conversation starter as well. So. Go war with you intent don't just celebrate for the sake of having a milestone it needs to really be ah, a reflection an action or a commitment to what's next to come.

25:12.59

Julie

During.

25:19.87

Julie

Now I love that and I felt the same way about disability resource groups when I first got into this world. You know ten or so years ago and I thought oh my god they're going to throw picnics and they're doing this and they're doing that you know and and yes some of them are.

25:25.46

Jamie

This is.

25:38.92

Julie

But at least they're brave enough to have a conversation and to to recognize the community. But then you see some that are just doing the most incredible work that are led by people with disabilities not by you know, parents and caregivers which definitely have a place.

25:39.44

Jamie

Yes.

25:55.45

Jamie

Yes.

25:57.45

Julie

But it. It's like it is actually a disability led conversation and I think it's it really has kind of shifted conversation at least in in the us to something that is more like hey I'm sitting right here. Don't talk about me in the third person you know and and I think that's where I've really grown to love the power of of a. Ah, disability resource or an employee resource group kind of However, you talk about it. Um, you know so just from your you you were correct me if I'm wrong, you're. Day job your day gig is your you work in recruitment and you work as a leader within a disability resource group is that right.

26:35.99

Jamie

Um, so I did. That's why my ruth started um I actually retired as a disability e g lead this month though Sorry last month this is February now or Mark I can even what month it is um so when I did this your g lead I did it for two and a half years and.

26:44.40

Julie

Then. Okay, so.

26:51.24

Jamie

It was was very much led by colleagues with disabilities. Um, and I love that you made the comment to run parents caregivers because I think what happens in these spaces is when we don't have the colleagues who feel comfortable to share or step into these positions. What we see is parents step into these positions or caregivers. And then what we see happen is very what I call fluffy language around disability which is we become inspirational people or inspiring superheroes are definitely evild and I think you can usually tell what to your Jas have been them by the disabled community or somebody will have experience over carginess.

27:24.70

Julie

Um, oh yeah.

27:25.99

Jamie

Um, s spoil I locker into it once because my clients may come to and um, but I think for me, it's having that lived experience I came out little two and half years ago and that erg there was a community there but there wasn't real action and I think that momentum that we've seen in the past two and half years we became an award within er g which sounds really fancy but like for me I cried when I we findd out because I was just like how did we do this and I then had to stop and actually start to reflect on what we had done and I looked at the state of the organization when I started and then I looked at it after we had won the award and the conversations not just been from leaders or a Ceo. From colleagues and other teams coming in to learn about disability or asking to join it as an ally you know we've seen that membership increase I think like 67% in the first year that we were there others like the impact that you can have when you have actual people lived experience behind the conversation is incredible and we had a parents and caregivers group who worked at the side of the r g.

28:18.32

Julie

So here.

28:24.76

Jamie

Um, created that space for priors and caregivers because one of the things I think we kept taking feedback was I love hearing these panels but I don't need to hear power talking about disability in this way because it's interfering with this person's story and I think there's a space for both. We have to respect that space and I think it's just about how you mitigate it. But for me I think an E R g.

28:35.96

Julie

Yeah.

28:44.17

Jamie

Or employee network. Whatever you call it play E or G is just play resource group. Um for me, there's a real sense of community. But for me, it was empowerment because before I came into the workplace I as I said I struggled I had so much termized Labeld Ableism I had suffered with my mental health I had.

28:50.74

Julie

And.

29:03.70

Jamie

I think I should do a warninging here I had bench strength I had self-tormed I had a type of suicide and ah the cause of that was my identity was my disability was my sexuality and the fact that I didn't feel belonging but becoming an e r g lead it give me this confidence to talk about my disability in a way that I had never done before. And I think because there was a group of people or a community who I wanted to feel psychologically safe and that's space to talk but there is and when I looked the last week and there we were in ja when it passed over the new lead. We have colleagues who come on those calls and now we'll say this model just done x y z and it's not right? How do we fix it. Um, before you know it, do you have all these different colleagues who lived experience stepping up and it's not just like your entry levell role you you bad 1 Japan too this managers there are talking about their experience with autism and we did a video with 1 manager who um, displayed autism and he give the most beautiful definition. What it's like to be autistic and as a statisticed person I am obsessed. And it was a statistic person. You're walking alongside in your typical person who's wearing shoes and socks. However, being autistic. You're actually walking on the beach where your feet bar and you're feeling the sand beneath you. So everything's just a very different feel and we did this video launched it and the impact of that and. Seeing actual representation was incredible. So for me I think e or g's you have to support them. You can't just stop these group and expect them to carer themselves. You need to be given them budget. You need to be given those leaders time because you cannot manage a day job monitor disability I monitor the org you need time carved out.

30:36.87

Jamie

And I got very lucky because I I don't want say threaten toquet but I was I wanted to work with a d and I said to my d I director if I can' get run d I at this company and got to leave because I've now had a taste of what it's like 3 lead and my role became of my permanent. Roland um I took you a journey here. You asked me by being the ah rg laid and I've given you the kitchen sink.

30:59.19

Julie

No I just know I'm I'm mesmerized. Um, so one I want to say thank you for sharing that part of yourself because I know even though we have this privilege of being able to talk about who we are in a way that a lot of people don't it means so much. To someone who lives with mental illness who lives with you know, cognitive processing disorders and all those things to hear someone else share that story and I I know how impactful it is to people and and so kind of want to wrap up before I ask my final 2 questions. 1 thing that I love. That you do is that you do share your whole self so you are talk about ah just on your website the intersectionality of of being a gay disabled man. Can you kind of take us a little bit on on that journey I don't want to steer you any direction I just want to kind of hear about how you.

31:51.45

Jamie

Yeah.

31:54.99

Julie

Became your whole self and how you got to a place where you were really comfortable sharing all of that so publicly.

31:59.46

Jamie

Yeah, so I can again I've grown up northern alllands like said colorful history. You can't be any a kind of different Northern Meland apart from your religion. It was always are you casting? Partisan you would never be asked if you just see a buder riga sexuality but you couldn't be gay or different in the community because. Ah, wasn't okay and northern alllan growing up and in fact, a lot of politicians I think it wasn't until late thousand Eighteen eighteen we actually were able to legally marry as gay individuals northern iland or sameax couples. Um, and the Uk had that a few years before decide the Ireland. But a lower connected. It's completely different country and it's part of the Eu where no longer um, find complicated geography. Um, for for me, you know I grew up knowing that being gay was something you couldn't be I grew up knowing that being disabled was this horrible shameful thing not to talk about because people would treat me definitely for that. But when I was being bullied in school for being disabled i's been bullied for being disabled kins then started calling me gay boy which confused me because obviously I was really struggling with being disabled bringing in the additional struggles of being gay just kind of complicated things. So I struggled to. Communicate how I was feeling I struggled to accept that I was gay and even at like 1516 I still had a girlfriend. Um and I was very much gay I knew was gay my heart but I wanted was like keeping up with a jones's appearance and I was I was still very much and I know it's probably gonna sense silly but I'm still very much a child.

33:31.36

Jamie

Gna that age you if you think a fifteen year old now they are out in the foams. They're lucky to go drinking behind. Everybody's back you they're they're miniature adults whereas when I was at the age I didn't have that mentality I would go out with my friends and when I say friends it was like these 2 guys who played football so I didn't actually really was a friend because it couldn't play football. But.

33:40.89

Julie

33:50.11

Jamie

They would bring me around with them and I would kind of just follow them around and I had this girlfriend but I would go home and play with my action on and Barbie with my sister and I play with my figurines because I didn't have the social skills so I was asking so much to keep up so I think the break in point for me was what I mentioned earlier about my um. My own history of my mental health and it was after that instant I kind of sat down and had conversation with my mommy and I said I be telling my irish mom. Um so I said to my moment it like I really don't like who I am as a person I don't want to be gay I don't want to be disabled. And like it was a very big conversation and I was sitting with a bandage my Wrs and things and it was a vi dramatic conversation. But my mom was just like you can't change your and she just like so stop trying to change the world the world it lead to change for you. Um I was it was very deep but I kind of felt tears my in there. So I'm not cried but I think for me it was. It was a very difficult journey to get the point of knowing that it was okay to be gay. It was okay to be disabled and I think that the practice that then came with that when I started textta myself was how do you come out and then come out again and it's like how I'm gay and I'm disabled and what is that that in. So I think for me that lesson. A hard lesson to learn of of loving yourself or as Ru Paul says how the hell can you love somebody else if you can't love yourself and I really do believe that because that's the shit here I am but I think when I look back on anybody andsectionality in particular I think because of the experiences I went through of being gay disabled.

35:20.43

Jamie

I Think that's why I'm a little bit more open to understanding and stopping and saying well actually we can't come with disability through just this white lens We have to hear the intersectional lived experiences we need to have puddles or the diverse and you know it's one of the things I now pride myself on is if ah, not pride myself but I'm very.

35:38.12

Jamie

Rigid with myself if you will somebody invited me to panel and I know it's a all white panel I'm not getting on a panel because our experiences Yes, we have different disabilities but where we bringing an into sectionality where your firsts all a straight panel and we're talking about Lgbt History month say well, that's not going to really cover.

35:47.62

Julie

Yeah.

35:53.42

Julie

No.

35:55.65

Jamie

So I think um or I've been in Panels with talk about saxction All date. It's all white people as well and I'm think we have to get this data where you understand that Disability is not Binary. Diversity has no one Appearance. You can't define diversity with one person So when we talking about Disability. We have to bring in those lenses because the experiences I feel is a disabled. White Gay man is going to be extremely different to have black disd gay person's going to Fail. So take your journey there to go. We been emotional. But yeah.

36:21.56

Julie

Know I will tell you so I am the the mom of a a gay young man who if I'm like if your mom is like me was like yeah dude I knew that like for years I just been waiting on you to figure it out and so thank you to your mom for being amazing. Um, because that's so critically important um to have that acceptance from your parents so you that is ah that is a blessing um and and I got a little teary eye kind of remembering that moment with my son. Um, so but I thank you It's so importantly. Ah, again like employment. We see people with disabilities as only their disability and we are a whole bunch of other things that we also want to celebrate and live. Um, so last 2 questions because even though this is a new podcast I am trying to end every interview with 2 questions. First one what is something that you would tell a hiring leader whether it's frontline or Ceo that would change their mind about hiring people with disabilities.

37:29.29

Jamie

Yeah I think I don't say I like to scare people but I like to remind people of the fact that we see disability as this faraway experience. It's never going to come knocking our door or we don't have to worry about when what we actually feel to realize is that Disability is very much part of the human Experience. We will all experience at atemporarym a permanent Disability. We look at the Statistics 70% of people are as 80% of people are acquire their disability as opposed to the 20% bomb with it. So Disability will impact you sometime you maybe be a bone where agent to so many different scenarios but equally if it's not ye. It could be your partner. It could be your child. It could be your grandson and your grandchild or could be your best friend. So. It's not about making a case for why we should make things inclusive for disabled people as a case of why aren't we future polling for your potential friends and family who are going to come through these doors.

38:24.53

Julie

Love it. So what is 1 thing one action that happened in your life that helped changed your life and you have shared a lot already so you might just skip this question. But I if you once should share something else I want to hear so much.

38:35.16

Jamie

Um.

38:40.84

Jamie

Um, I think 1 action has changed my life. Um I can be honest, go be really cheesy is my partner and it all sounds really cheesy because for me when I think I've been my partner fashion nearly 13 years my day. Um and still no ring I know.

38:45.11

Julie

Cost.

38:54.37

Julie

Oh.

38:56.30

Jamie

Um, but still not yet Mary this year this year um but I think when I think about who I was and then know is probably gonna be a real cliche but I was pretty much blindly wandering and I didn't know what was what was like to have a relationship That's my first real adult relationship and to find somebody who was also. Youre divergent on aistic as well. We went through that journey together I think that was a pivotal moment of probably our our relationship probably my life is that I I know have a partner who gets it and I call him my eyes um because he does things to me right? I ever haven't ask and you he loved him because we would arrest on him and he said. He took the man and he just read it to me before how to even ask sacred eurekas to me so to me that's what love for it says little silly act. So the moment that changed my life is my partner because behind there was you that side behind every good woman There's a man or behind of a good man is what i't know the say is but for me I'm like behind every reinynal there' a man because. He's the person that he has me mix ches with myself and challenges me in ways that I don't think anybody else could so my partner is the thing I changed my life I think such a cliche.

39:59.65

Julie

Amazing, amazing! Amazing! No I love it. Trust me, we we have a lot in common I'll tell you that Jamie Shields Ceo and founder of disabled by society where can people find you on the socials.

40:16.11

Jamie

Yes, so on Linkedin is just my name Jamie Shas or disabled by society my business page I do have Twitter um, now it's not disabled by society because the handle was too long so it's this by society on Twitter and if you want to check out the website just disabled by society.com um, but yeah reach out. Whatever you feel best to you are most accessible to you.

40:34.71

Julie

Awesome! Amazing! Thank you so much shamie. Thank you all for joining us for what will probably be 1 of my favorite conversations of 2024 until next time we'll see ya. Thank you.

40:44.74

Jamie

Thank you so much.