Breaking the Charity Mindset: Disability, Authentic Branding & Inclusive Employment with Davina Douthard

CMCL Episode #2 with Davina Douthard
March 6, 2026

Julie Sowash
Welcome back to the Changing Minds, Changing Lives podcast. My name is Julie Sowash, your host and strategic advisor and co-founder of Disability Solutions. We launched season three of the podcast, unbelievably, with the founders of Dateability, Alexa and Jacqueline Child. These sisters are a vibrant and powerful example of the power of entrepreneurship and innovation in our community. And they are making positive impact every single day. So unsponsored pitch. If you're on the market, you’re single, check out Dateability, which is the dating app for disabled singles. You can also listen to Alexa and Jacqueline's conversation about the promise and opportunity of building accessible tech on the Disability@Work podcast, which is hosted by none other than our very own Director of Marketing for Disability Solutions, Ashley Sims. Today we have a topic that, from my perspective, we do not focus on enough as a community: image and brand. And I am joined by one of the leaders in this conversation and work, Davina Douthard. Davina is a 30 year plus veteran in image management, disability employment advocacy, inclusive entertainment. She has an extensive background in PR, brand development and workforce training. So she really brings a unique perspective to the conversation that we're having today. She's the founder of Polishing the Professional, a full service career center supporting both disabled and non-disabled job seekers, and the creator and executive producer of The Able Show, a groundbreaking production where people with disabilities fill the majority of both on and off-camera roles. And I'm sure I did not even start to do her justice. But Davina, welcome to Changing Minds, Changing Lives. Tell us a little bit more about you.

Davina Douthard
First of all, thank you for having me. And you did me plenty justice. What was your question again?

[laughs]

Julie Sowash
Yeah. Did I do you justice? And tell me about you? Yes, oh, yes. So, yeah, basically, I mean, you sort of wrapped it up in a nutshell. I sort of been, I sort of was thrust into image and branding as a child. So it's been a part of my life being focused on how we present ourselves. And that started first as a passion. I think I was just passionate about and enamored by, for the most part of it, Old Hollywood. When I would watch how artists would, you know, how they manage themselves, were very cautious of the things that we say and how we treated one another, at least on camera it was, right? And so, that led, my mother ended up. I grew up in Inglewood and my mother put us in this neighborhood program, which was called Itty Bitty City. And it was a personal development and modeling program. Sorta like Barbizon, but just the community program, right? And, in that program, I learned a lot about etiquette and presentation, stage presence and all of those things. And it sort of stuck with me. I started teaching when I was 16, teaching other people to do the very same thing or learn the same things that I have. And it's sort of stuck with me.

Julie Sowash
That's amazing. So what, what brought on the disability part of your passion? 

Davina Douthard
So that was another personal connection. I have an older brother, Rayvone Douthard, who has a developmental disability. He wasn't born with his disability, but there was an incident in his childhood that created an intellectual disability. And, he, so when he was coming of age, he was always very, what's the word? Ambitious. And so although, he, you know, he wanted to work and he wanted to get jobs. He always needed help with it. And I, his little sister, who he’s very cool. We were very close with one another. I still help him to this day. He would have to fill out applications and I would help him fill out applications. Albeit it probably still looked a little immature. Maybe my writing. I don't know. But, it was, at any rate, you know, more professional than his. So that's how that started.

Julie Sowash
That's amazing. And I mean, that really does blend together these two worlds so perfectly. And today I kind of want to take the conversation on two tracks.

Davina Douthard
Mmhmm, sure.

Julie Sowash
But before we do that, something that you say and that I say, that is so near and dear to both of our hearts, is that we are, as a community, we are hindered by the charity mindset.

Davina Douthard
Mmmmm, oh yes. Mmhmm.

Julie Sowash
When I talk about the charity mindset, a lot of times I've talked about it from a business perspective, but what I've been talking about it more recently, even, is that it's also pervasive in our own community in the way that we think about ourselves and each other. So tell me a little bit about how from either side of the spectrum, employer or professional, how have you tackled, the charity mindset?

Davina Douthard
So let me first tell you how two of my experiences with that charity mindset and how it prevented those two things from developing and growing, right? And then I can explain and then you'll understand what I'm what I mean when I say what I'm going to say is that, so back in, maybe 1998, I was involved in the Department of Rehabilitation program. It was diversity employment stores and I served on, for the most part of it, the business development team, right? And we, I was the only one in there for awhile that was from the profit world. Because before I got into the disability world, I was in the for-profit world and still am. But that was my background. That was my experience. And when we sat in the meetings, all of the conversation was about how can we get someone to come do this for us? Like, we needed to give this thing away free in order to get important people in the room. And I also, this is probably in 2014, I was awarded a different contract under the Department of Rehabilitation. And the contract was for training. My job placement skills had been very successful. I helped Easterseals, which was struggling at the time that I started working with them. They had never made a placement in I think the 30 years they had a contract, because it was just they just didn't really get it. If they did, maybe it was one or two placements, I don't know. From my memory, it was none. And, we became one of the best job placement agencies in at least in the Los Angeles area. That I know for sure. So we did very well. But I received this contract from Department of Rehabilitation to travel the state of California and show other people how to do job placement. And one of the resounding things that came up over and over and over again was, how do we get the employers to hire our people with disabilities? And there was that question again, like, the devaluing of the of ourselves and of the people and what we bring to the table. And my lesson in there, and one of the things that I explained to the to the attendees was and also in diversity employment source. There was another guy who came in later on, Bill. What was Bill's last name? He was the vice president of HB Drollinger and Company. So he came from a for-profit work and he was very aggressive with it. But when we came to that mindset, we went from a small community job fair to maybe like having 20 people or so show up to an annual job fair that we had like 5,000 people coming through that job fair in a short period of time. And the same thing with the attendees for the training. One of the things that I had to explain was that the first thing you have to understand is you're not asking the employer for anything free. You, actually you're helping them. You're helping them to fill a role that they need to fill. And so be it. It happens to be someone with a disability. If you're not putting the client in a position, into a job that they're not capable of doing, there's no devaluing needed, right? You're not ask. I'm not asking you to hire someone or get someone a job who has no astronaut skills to be an astronaut. You don't have. I'm not asking someone that doesn't have any graphic design skills not to be a graphic designer. If they know, if they're graphic, a whiz at graphic design, but perhaps they have autism and so they don't have the social interaction skills perhaps that they need and that we would assume they need to work. You're not asking for favor. You're helping them to fill a role that they need to fill and by chance you happen to have someone who can do it. So if we focus on what someone actually can do and move from that perspective, then you'll find that you're not asking for charity anymore. You're not coming from a charity mindset. You're coming from, I hear it is, I have something to offer and here's what I have to offer.

Julie Sowash
That's just one of the best examples that I've heard from, delivered from our side of the table is that we had to change first our mindset about what our capabilities were and what we were bringing to the table versus what we were requesting. So please go ahead. That was outstanding.

Davina Douthard
No, and I also think, you know. I think people make, now don't get me wrong, because job placement is not easy, it’s very competitive. So, you know, and I think is always baffles me when I get in front of someone who is telling other job placement agencies how to make placement and they've never done a placement before in their life. I'm like you’re the last person who needs to speak on this topic and you have that rampantly within the Regional Center systems and the Department of Rehabilitation systems and it makes doing this job very difficult. But what I also do say is that think about it. I think people make placements so difficult, right? It's not rocket science. Think about it from your own perspective. When you go out looking for a job, do you go looking for the CEO of a company position if you haven't had any skills that lead up to that? No. If you know this is your first job, you think about the things that you like to do. Would you want to work in fast food or retail or go into a corporate environment depending on what background skills you have. You want warehouse if you like picking up, lifting things. It's the same thing you gonna, you do for your clients. And so, if you're focusing on what they can actually do, what their skill set is and what they will be able to do and learn on a job, then you're not asking for, you're not asking any favors. You're bringing someone to the table who can do the job that they have listed.

Julie Sowash
Yeah. And have you, have you encountered and I say this just from personal experience individuals that you're helping through job placement. How do you help them understand where their skills fit versus sometimes we get into that person-centered planning and the person wants to be an astronaut. I would love to be an astronaut. Actually not. I'm terrified of heights. But if I did want to be an astronaut, I am not at all qualified to do that. How do you have those conversations that help the job seeker also understand that everyone has a point of entry. And it doesn't have to be the last place on our career journey.

Davina Douthard
Uh huh. So that is really how I start with everything. I first ask my clients what is it you want to do? And sometimes they don't know, right? And sometimes they know exactly what they want to do. And then I approach life this way as well as in, I back into it. Like I start with the end in mind and then start from where it is I need to where I am, where I’m at at that point. And I do the same things with my clients. I'll occasionally have a client who comes in with an. Like, one time I had a young man who was very, very bright. Had autism. And his, when his, when they first contacted me, he, his mother was very proud of the fact that he memorized  the maps very well and wondered how he could get a position in, you know, at a company by remembering where things were in the city. And it just unfortunately, it just was not. You had GPS, you know. You had mapping systems already going, so it wasn't really a, it was a unique skill, but it wasn't really transferable in the way that she thought. And so, we instead focused on his beautiful memory and put him in a position where they needed someone who could remember things quite well. And it wasn’t doing maps, but it was remembering locations, remembering where to travel, remember where to go, remembering. And on a big, we ended up getting him hired at Universal Studios as a character escort, right? And that big, if you've ever been to Universal City itself or Universal Studios, is ginormous. And I can't remember where everything is, even if I'm there for five days in a row. It's a lot. But he was very good about remembering where he had to be, where every stopping point was. It was good. So, this was so many years ago, but it's not so much just saying here, I've got this great skill and I want to be an astronaut with it. It’s really saying, ok, let's take this skill and figure out where it transfers to in the thousands of job titles that exist, right? So, yeah.

Julie Sowash
That sounds like a pretty good job to land too.

Davina Douthard
Oh, yeah.

Julie Sowash
Better than working for the city, right?

[laughs]

Davina Douthard
That was probably one of the funnest jobs I ever job coached at.

[laughs]

To be honest with you, my first. That was my first placement was a client working at Universal Studios. And she was the escort, a different young lady, but, character escort. And we had fun. We had so much fun.

Julie Sowash
Yeah, that sounds like a blast. And I think, I mean, thank you for taking the time to kind of explain and exemplify charity mindset and how to shift desires to transferable skills that get to the job. I think that's so critical. And I want to come back to the job seeker as we wrap up. But I also want to talk about employers.

Davina Douthard
Yeah.

Julie Sowash
Are there some kind of common mistakes that you've seen from well-meaning employers when they're trying to create a more inclusive brand in their recruitment materials or, you know, their public-facing campaigns that really missed the mark?

Davina Douthard
Yes. I think who, there’s a lot of stereotypes in terms of what someone with a disability looks like. So we'll always, a lot of times when I see literature or anything advertising someone with a disability, it usually has someone. And nothing wrong with this, because, certainly, present everyone. But I think they get in the mindset of someone either with down syndrome. That's what I see most of the time. And then also when I go to the employer and we're having a conversation and I bring a client that has an invisible disability, right? Something you can't really see. Or someone really, with autism, but it’s not as apparent. They'll ask me questions like, Well, what's wrong with him? And I go, ok, he can't ask that question, right? And, certainly, I can't even tell you what his disability is unless he or she gives me the authority to say that. You know, unless I ask for a reasonable accommodation then perhaps I can, then I have to explain what we need the reasonable accommodation for. But I also, one thing that sticks out  in my mind, and I think I've told this story so many times, was this was probably around 2000, late, early 2000s, like 2006 or something. And I had, I was working with a, one of the grocery stores here. I, really, when I first started placing, I had made the grocery stores as my thing. I started that whole thing in Los Angeles with clients getting jobs in grocery stores. And so, but now it's the popular thing, so everyone does it. But I had started working with a company that was very open to inclusivity. And so they had came up with, they created a goal or established a goal that said, we want to have at least two people with disabilities in each store, right? And one time I went to, I didn't present myself as working with this company. I went in like a regular person, job developer trying to help a client find, land, a job. We had filled out an application, we landed an interview, and so we went in to speak to the hiring manager. And the guy said to me, he says, oh, we already met our quota. We already have two people.

[laughs]

We already have two disabled people to work. And I just said, ok, hang on, Davina. This is a teaching moment  for me, right? Like, I don't want to bash this guy because they don't. You don't know what you don't know until you know it, right? And so I said, and this is a Hispanic guy and I think he was Mexican, but I don't remember that far back. But I think he was Mexican. And I said to him, I said, imagine if I said we already have enough Mexican in the store? Or enough Blacks in the store? Or enough white people in the store? Or enough women in the store? And he immediately got it. But I and that he did. I don't even think he, he didn't mean harm. He really didn't.

Julie Sowash
No.

Davina Douthard
He was just, he was just listening to his, you know, they had to make a quota. And I think they were trying to I mean, they met their quota and they were happy about it, right? But he didn't think anything was wrong with saying that. And he was so nervous, he thought we were gonna sue him and file a claim. And I was like, that's not what I'm here for. I'm trying to create an opportunity for someone to work. And so I would rather fix an issue than to create another problem that prevents someone else from getting a job. So let's just move forward. I just wanted to teach you, like, what that sounds like. Read it back to you. What you, you know. Yeah, so.

Julie Sowash
Yes, yeah. Oh my. As soon as you got about, as soon as you got to the, two person per store, I was like, oh, I know where this is going. Because I’ve, we've experienced so many similar conversations of, like, hey, we did it. Good job. Thanks. Come back when we get rid of one of them. You know, kind of thing.

Davina Douthard
And I think what, here's something that I think that I would love to do. And I set out to do it years ago and just never really done enough of it. But really having conversations and speaking with employers on a regular basis about inclusion, especially right now in this climate, it's just, it's terrible.

Julie Sowash
Yes.

Davina Douthard
But I just think people I don't think they're really trying to be insensitive or to discriminate, for the most part. There are some that are that way. And I deal with that differently. But I just think people just don't understand until you paint it to them in a way that they need to hear it. And then they realize, like, oh, I didn't realize I was saying that. I didn't mean it that way. So, yeah.

Julie Sowash
Yeah. And I mean, I think it's you're so spot on into that. There is a sensitivity. And I may not say this right. A sensitivity around how we talk about women, people of color, LGBTQ individuals, that hasn't been embedded  in our brains in the same way that we talk about disability.

Davina Douthard
Mmhmm.

Julie Sowash
And it gives us a lot more teaching opportunities. Let's call it that.

Davina Douthard
Oh, it does.

Julie Sowash
In which people feel they can speak very freely. And it's good when they do. I mean, I always say, if you say something in front of me, I'm not easily offended and I'm not gonna yell at you, like, we'll figure it out together. I think that's just another really, really great example. And as we kind of think about the person with a disability. Let’s say, a young professional with a disability. How do you, how can that person approach building their professional and personal brand in a way that feels very authentic? You know, do, rather than feeling like their disability has to define or overshadow the expertise or their career that they're building? You know, how does that balance come into play?

Davina Douthard
So, I am so tied into authenticity. That is my thing. If you asked me for two words that resonate with me, one would be equality and the other would be authenticity. And even with my clients that I work with in the entertainment industry, doing branding and public relations and things like that, I always start from a position of authenticity. There's something special that every single one of us bring to the table. And I think very few of us get the opportunity to tap into that uniqueness, because we're all trying to fit into what's cool, what’s, you know, what this celebrity is doing or what this popular person is doing, what all the kids in school are doing, right? Instead of standing on their own uniqueness. So I approach that with anyone that I'm speaking to. I, think to the, I don't want to say it the wrong way, but I'm just gonna say it. I honestly detest fakeness. I really do not like someone trying to be something that they're not. And when even the fake love you stuff, the fake, oh hi, the Hollywood stuff drives me insane. So you know, I’m just, I am who I am. And not to say that there aren’t things that we don't need to polish about ourselves. We all do. But I like when people come from a position of authenticity. So I approach that with all of our, you know, with all of my clients, like, I really hone into what it is that they really want to do. And we start with that. And we focus on that. I have a client right now. I have a few of them. But Antonio, the one who's now learning public relations, that booked this podcast. He also booked us on KTLA and we got in the LA and now he's been doing a bang-up job.

Julie Sowash
Nice.

Davina Douthard
But I have another client who, has, I hope, I'm sure he'll be fine with me talking about him. But he does, he had a stuttering issue really bad when he first started working with us. And, as a part of his disability was one of his disabilities. And when we’re in our production meetings, it first started with he would talk and it would take a long time for him to get a point across that would have taken two seconds. It might have taken him three or four minutes. But what I implemented from the very beginning was allowing him to finish saying what he's saying. And the entire room, it would be maybe 20, 30 people in the room. And we would wait until he finished. And now he is able to finish his thoughts and articulate it in 1 or 2 seconds, like everyone else says, because I think having an issue with stuttering or some sort of speech impediment prevent, you know, in high school he was teased about it. And so he always clammed up. And no one gave him the free, the space to be able to just speak in his own terms. And to get comfortable with themselves. Now, you can’t get him to stop talking, right? And that's ok. But that's what we do. Like, I want everyone to be authentically themselves. And if we have to wait a few minutes, then we just have to wait a few minutes. That's it. If, my brother is a DJ. And that's what he loves to do. So that's what I always focus on. Everything, in the focus on him about his DJ equipment years ago, even when he first told me he wanted to be a DJ. I didn’t even know he knew how to DJ that well, right? I just, ok, said,  this is a dream of his. And I'm gonna help him do it. And then I find out later on oh no, he's DJing parties at LA Valley College. People at the Regional Center were hiring him for events, parties, housing. I was like, what? I didn't know he was that good. He is really, pretty good. And so that's what, you know, that’s how I approach authenticity. I don't worry about what you can't do. I only want to focus on what you want to do and what you can do now. We can continue to build on that skill.

Julie Sowash
Oh, I love that. I think that's such a great note to wrap up on, right? Move away from fake. Move to authenticity and focus on what you can do. And I love, I live in Europe now. And so I'm learning this power of letting people talk and letting them be. Whereas as Americans we’re always in a hurry to finish everything. And I think what you just explained with your, the individual with a speech impediment is so, it is a very European mindset. And just like embracing that, like, we're just gonna wait till everyone's done. Your whole body chemistry changes and how you engage with other people changes.

Davina Douthard
Exactly.

Julie Sowash
And it's so empowering to the individual that you're speaking with or just yourself because you take that breath. I think that's so beautiful. So tell me and tell our listeners if they want to connect with you, how do they find you? Where do they watch you? How do we learn more?

Davina Douthard
Yeah, so, to connect with me, you can go to polishingtheprofessional.com. You'll see a link there to contact us. As well as for The Able Show, which is theableshow.com. You can watch our episodes. We have about 80 episodes. Two seasons on, we're currently on YouTube. We are actually heading into our third season and we are reformatting things a little bit, so we'll end up on our own site. All of our, you can actually get our episodes on our site as well, but a lot of people watch YouTube, so that's fine as well. But those are the two best ways to reach us. We're always interested in interviewing. We interview a lot of celebrities here in Hollywood, but we also are interested in interviewing very special people that are in the disability space. And so, and this is always in cameras, on-camera, on-set interviews. So it's not podcast. I mean, it's not a zoom thing we can't zoom in. So you have to be here in Los Angeles. So I just like to say that, yes.

Julie Sowash
Yeah, no, that’s amazing. So thank you so much. This has been so fun.

Davina Douthard
Thank you for having me.

Julie Sowash
You guys, another great episode. I hope you learned a lot. I hope you connect with Davina. Just as by way of housekeeping, we are doing our quarterly webinar on April 2nd on rethinking design in neurodiversity. I will be joined by Grant Harris, who you’ve seen on this podcast in prior season. He’s a certified diversity executive. Going to be a really, really great conversation. Grant brings so much to the table and I'm so happy that he's also agreed to join us, not just on the podcast, but on the webinar. So you guys know where to find me. Follow me. Hit me on LinkedIn with people you want to hear from, topics we need to cover this season. Until then, we'll see you later. Bye.