Welcome to Celebrity Trials - True Crime and Justice coverage updated daily.!
Aug. 26, 2026

Two Juries in One Afternoon: Lindsay Clancy Goes to Deliberations, the Bridegan Verdict Is Next, and a Hot Mic in the Tupac Trial

Two Juries in One Afternoon: Lindsay Clancy Goes to Deliberations, the Bridegan Verdict Is Next, and a Hot Mic in the Tupac Trial

Closing arguments are expected today in Lindsay Clancy's murder trial, after Judge William Sullivan denied a defense motion for a mistrial. Prosecution expert Dr. Kirk Heilbrun, testifying that Clancy told each child "go to God" as she killed them, described her Catholic upbringing and began asking whether suicide is a mortal sin before defense attorney Kevin Reddington objected — the second time the phrase has surfaced in the trial. Reddington called it "intentional misconduct." Sullivan refused the mistrial but told jurors the defendant's religion was "absolutely an inappropriate area of testimony… It is to be stricken." Heilbrun testified Clancy retained awareness that killing was illegal, and that she reported the voice only during the killings — never before or after. Clancy has pleaded not guilty to three counts of first-degree murder in the deaths of Cora, 5, Dawson, 3, and Callan, 8 months. Eighteen jurors will be narrowed to twelve for deliberations. Also: both sides have rested in Jacksonville in the Mario Fernandez Saldana murder-for-hire trial over the killing of Jared Bridegan; the defense called two witnesses and Fernandez Saldana did not testify. And in Las Vegas, jurors in the Duane Davis trial heard a recording made through a live studio microphone.

Join our new FB groups page here. Take the poll!

Join the Daily Crime & Justice community on social media! We're building a passionate group of true crime enthusiasts who love diving deep into the most shocking cases in America.
Follow us on Facebook and Instagram by searching "Daily Crime & Justice" on either platform.


You'll get exclusive behind-the-scenes content, breaking news updates on cases we're covering, and early alerts when new episodes drop. Our social media is where Garret Fisher's hottest takes live, including reactions that don't make it into the show.

But more importantly, it's where YOU come in. Share your theories, debate the verdicts, and connect with fellow listeners who are just as obsessed with justice as you are. Did the jury get it right? What questions do you still have? Your comments and insights often shape future episodes.


We cover the trials that matter, but our community makes the conversation unforgettable. Come for Garret's signature cynical commentary, stay for the incredible discussions with thousands of true crime fans who get it.

WEBVTT

1
00:00:10.050 --> 00:00:10.550
Good morning.

2
00:00:10.789 --> 00:00:13.789
This is Daily Crime and Justice from Calaroga Shark Media,

3
00:00:13.929 --> 00:00:14.890
powered by AI.

4
00:00:15.550 --> 00:00:19.890
I'm Garrett Fisher. It's Wednesday, August 26, 2026. Two juries.

5
00:00:20.370 --> 00:00:20.710
One day.

6
00:00:21.449 --> 00:00:24.789
In Plymouth, Massachusetts, after five weeks of testimony and more

7
00:00:24.829 --> 00:00:28.570
than 40 witnesses, closing arguments in the Lindsay Clancy triple

8
00:00:28.589 --> 00:00:33.210
murder trial are expected today. And then 12 people, chosen

9
00:00:33.250 --> 00:00:35.229
at random out of the 18 who have been sitting

10
00:00:35.270 --> 00:00:38.759
there since July, walk into a room to decide whether

11
00:00:38.810 --> 00:00:41.299
a woman who killed her three children can be held

12
00:00:41.359 --> 00:00:45.920
responsible for it. In Jacksonville, Florida, both sides have rested

13
00:00:45.960 --> 00:00:49.340
in the trial of Mario Fernandez Saldana for the ambush

14
00:00:49.380 --> 00:00:53.189
killing of Jared Breidgen. The defense called two witnesses and

15
00:00:53.250 --> 00:00:56.649
took half a day. Fernandez Saldana did not take the stand.

16
00:00:57.229 --> 00:01:01.509
The prosecution closed yesterday afternoon, the defense closes this morning,

17
00:01:01.710 --> 00:01:04.799
and that jury is expected to begin deliberating this afternoon.

18
00:01:05.459 --> 00:01:07.840
And in Las Vegas, a man who works in true

19
00:01:07.879 --> 00:01:10.900
crime television told a jury he recorded Dwayne Davis through

20
00:01:10.939 --> 00:01:13.939
a live microphone from an office down the hall, and

21
00:01:14.060 --> 00:01:18.049
kept recording during the breaks. Davis apparently knew enough to

22
00:01:18.090 --> 00:01:21.189
say the words hot mic out loud. He kept talking anyway.

23
00:01:21.650 --> 00:01:30.730
Let's get into it. On the evening of January 24th, 2023,

24
00:01:30.730 --> 00:01:34.409
Lindsay Clancy strangled her three children with exercise bands in

25
00:01:34.450 --> 00:01:38.750
the basement of their house in Duxbury, Massachusetts. Cora was five.

26
00:01:39.209 --> 00:01:43.209
Dawson was three. Callan was eight months old. Clancy then

27
00:01:43.250 --> 00:01:46.640
attempted to take her own life, went out a second-story window,

28
00:01:46.810 --> 00:01:50.590
and has been paralyzed ever since. She has pleaded not

29
00:01:50.659 --> 00:01:53.900
guilty to three counts of first-degree murder. She does not

30
00:01:53.939 --> 00:01:59.069
deny doing it. The only question is criminal responsibility. The

31
00:01:59.109 --> 00:02:02.209
prosecution has now put three experts in front of this jury,

32
00:02:02.430 --> 00:02:04.390
and they have each taken a different angle on the

33
00:02:04.430 --> 00:02:09.210
same target. We covered Dr. Avram Mack yesterday. He was

34
00:02:09.250 --> 00:02:12.030
the psychiatrist who said what she had was a major

35
00:02:12.069 --> 00:02:16.210
depressive episode, not psychosis, and that she knew right from wrong.

36
00:02:16.969 --> 00:02:18.569
And I want to correct the record.

37
00:02:18.370 --> 00:02:21.610
On something, because Monday's cross was rougher on him than

38
00:02:21.669 --> 00:02:25.639
I gave you. Kevin Reddington went at Mack's credentials directly

39
00:02:25.879 --> 00:02:28.370
and got him to acknowledge that this was only about

40
00:02:28.409 --> 00:02:31.069
the third time in his entire career that he had

41
00:02:31.110 --> 00:02:34.449
testified in court on the question of criminal responsibility.

42
00:02:35.150 --> 00:02:35.789
Third time.

43
00:02:36.409 --> 00:02:39.370
Reddington also confronted him with prior cases in which he

44
00:02:39.430 --> 00:02:43.560
said courts had questioned Mack's qualifications, which Mack largely said

45
00:02:43.620 --> 00:02:47.520
he did not recall or disputed outright. Then Reddington went

46
00:02:47.580 --> 00:02:51.050
after the framework. Mack's position is that in the United States,

47
00:02:51.330 --> 00:02:55.729
clinicians use the diagnostic manual, and that manual defines postpartum

48
00:02:55.789 --> 00:02:59.909
onset as four weeks after birth. Callan Clancy was eight

49
00:02:59.949 --> 00:03:03.400
months old, so Reddington pushed and got Mack to concede

50
00:03:03.439 --> 00:03:07.099
that the World Health Organization uses a different window, and

51
00:03:07.139 --> 00:03:10.219
a proposed revision to the American manual would extend it

52
00:03:10.259 --> 00:03:13.319
to six weeks. And then Reddington said the line that

53
00:03:13.400 --> 00:03:16.770
I suspect ends up in the closing argument. Postpartum is

54
00:03:16.810 --> 00:03:19.770
not a disease doctor. That is the whole defense theory

55
00:03:19.849 --> 00:03:23.530
of the prosecution's case in six words. The state is

56
00:03:23.590 --> 00:03:28.219
treating a calendar as biology. Reddington's position is that postpartum

57
00:03:28.259 --> 00:03:31.939
depression and psychosis can develop a year out or longer,

58
00:03:32.180 --> 00:03:35.159
and that a number in a manual is a billing convenience,

59
00:03:35.580 --> 00:03:38.860
not a fact about a human brain. The second expert

60
00:03:38.900 --> 00:03:42.900
was a forensic psychologist named Dr. Kirk Heilbrunn, and he

61
00:03:43.000 --> 00:03:46.319
is the one who did the most damage. Heilbrunn interviewed

62
00:03:46.370 --> 00:03:49.210
Clancy for about 10 hours across three days in April,

63
00:03:49.449 --> 00:03:54.569
alongside Mack. He has testified in roughly 330 cases, and

64
00:03:54.610 --> 00:03:57.569
he told the jury flatly that, in his opinion, Lindsay

65
00:03:57.610 --> 00:04:02.099
Clancy was criminally responsible. He said she retained an awareness

66
00:04:02.139 --> 00:04:05.340
of the illegality of killing others, including her own children.

67
00:04:06.280 --> 00:04:07.780
Then he went at the voice.

68
00:04:08.340 --> 00:04:10.990
Heilbrunn told the jury that Clancy's account of hearing a

69
00:04:11.150 --> 00:04:14.629
male voice was inconsistent over time, and that what she

70
00:04:14.680 --> 00:04:18.939
described was more consistent with an unwelcome intrusive thought, which

71
00:04:19.019 --> 00:04:22.759
she had been having for months, than with a command hallucination.

72
00:04:23.379 --> 00:04:26.500
And he gave the jury a specific, and it is

73
00:04:26.560 --> 00:04:30.319
a hard one. After the suicide attempt, the first thing

74
00:04:30.379 --> 00:04:32.949
Lindsay Clancy said to her husband was that she had

75
00:04:33.009 --> 00:04:36.410
tried to kill herself. Heilbrunn's point was that if a

76
00:04:36.470 --> 00:04:39.430
voice had genuinely commanded her, You might expect her to

77
00:04:39.490 --> 00:04:42.149
say something like, I did what I had to do,

78
00:04:42.589 --> 00:04:45.509
or I did what the voice said. She did not

79
00:04:45.569 --> 00:04:47.810
say that. And then he used the word that is

80
00:04:47.829 --> 00:04:51.569
going to follow this case around. He testified that on

81
00:04:51.629 --> 00:04:55.860
about three points, her account more closely resembled exaggerated or

82
00:04:55.939 --> 00:04:57.519
fabricated hallucinations.

83
00:04:58.220 --> 00:05:00.759
One looked more genuine. One was mixed.

84
00:05:01.259 --> 00:05:03.439
Now, I want to give you the other half of

85
00:05:03.500 --> 00:05:07.279
Heilbrunn's testimony, because the coverage is not doing it and

86
00:05:07.319 --> 00:05:10.899
it matters. The same witness told that jury that Lindsay

87
00:05:10.939 --> 00:05:14.110
Clancy is still grieving, that she is still in mourning

88
00:05:14.149 --> 00:05:17.509
for those children. He said she used language like, I

89
00:05:17.550 --> 00:05:20.110
have lost everything and I don't want to be here.

90
00:05:20.930 --> 00:05:23.189
And he said explicitly that he would not think of

91
00:05:23.230 --> 00:05:26.949
her as somebody who is self-centered or oriented only to herself.

92
00:05:27.709 --> 00:05:31.670
That is the prosecution's own expert. A man being paid

93
00:05:31.709 --> 00:05:35.110
by the Commonwealth to say she is criminally responsible went

94
00:05:35.269 --> 00:05:37.389
out of his way to tell 12 people she is

95
00:05:37.509 --> 00:05:40.709
not a monster. I have watched a lot of expert

96
00:05:40.750 --> 00:05:44.949
testimony and that is not nothing. And then Monday afternoon

97
00:05:44.990 --> 00:05:49.029
fell apart. Heilbrun, explaining how he assessed whether Clancy understood

98
00:05:49.089 --> 00:05:53.779
moral wrongfulness, started talking about her Catholic upbringing. He described

99
00:05:53.800 --> 00:05:56.600
her saying her children had gone to God and offered

100
00:05:56.639 --> 00:05:59.699
that as he understood Catholic teaching. That is not necessarily

101
00:05:59.740 --> 00:06:02.839
what happens. Then he said he had asked Clancy whether

102
00:06:02.899 --> 00:06:06.870
suicide was a mortal sin. Reddington moved for a mistrial.

103
00:06:07.290 --> 00:06:10.810
He called it intentional misconduct by the Commonwealth. And his

104
00:06:11.009 --> 00:06:13.509
anger was not coming from nowhere, because this was the

105
00:06:13.569 --> 00:06:19.769
second time. Last week, prosecutors cross-examining Clancy's former mother-in-law, Susan Clancy,

106
00:06:20.230 --> 00:06:22.980
asked whether she was aware the church considers murder a

107
00:06:23.100 --> 00:06:27.120
mortal sin. The judge struck that one, too. Judge William

108
00:06:27.199 --> 00:06:30.759
Sullivan denied the mistrial. But listen to how he denied it.

109
00:06:31.480 --> 00:06:35.060
He called the testimony problematic. He asked out loud how

110
00:06:35.279 --> 00:06:38.120
any of it was proper at this point. And when

111
00:06:38.160 --> 00:06:40.480
he brought the jury back in, he told them the

112
00:06:40.519 --> 00:06:44.660
religion the defendant was raised with was absolutely an inappropriate

113
00:06:44.759 --> 00:06:46.000
area of testimony.

114
00:06:46.779 --> 00:06:47.310
Stricken.

115
00:06:47.879 --> 00:06:50.310
Not to be considered. He said he could not be

116
00:06:50.389 --> 00:06:53.990
any clearer than that. Reporters in the room noted several

117
00:06:54.050 --> 00:06:56.889
jurors nodding while he said it. Then he sent them

118
00:06:56.930 --> 00:07:00.360
home early and called the lawyers back for a sidebar. Look,

119
00:07:00.740 --> 00:07:02.180
I'm going to be honest with you about what I

120
00:07:02.220 --> 00:07:06.009
think happened there. A witness who has testified 330 times

121
00:07:06.310 --> 00:07:09.290
knows what he is allowed to say. Reddington used the

122
00:07:09.329 --> 00:07:12.949
words intentional misconduct, and a judge does not call testimony

123
00:07:12.990 --> 00:07:15.439
problematic and demand to know how it was proper if

124
00:07:15.480 --> 00:07:18.779
he thinks it was an innocent slip. Sullivan also told

125
00:07:18.819 --> 00:07:21.600
prosecutors to strongly instruct their own witness not to go

126
00:07:21.660 --> 00:07:22.240
near it again.

127
00:07:23.019 --> 00:07:23.980
And here is.

128
00:07:24.079 --> 00:07:27.870
Why it is dangerous and why Reddington fought that hard.

129
00:07:28.680 --> 00:07:30.879
You cannot ask a jury to weigh whether a woman

130
00:07:30.920 --> 00:07:33.579
knew killing was morally wrong and then hand them her

131
00:07:33.660 --> 00:07:38.459
church's doctrine on sin. That stops being psychiatry and becomes

132
00:07:38.660 --> 00:07:42.439
a sermon. Twelve people who may have their own feelings

133
00:07:42.500 --> 00:07:45.360
about mortal sin do not need help importing them into

134
00:07:45.399 --> 00:07:48.819
a verdict. Whether an instruction fixes it is the oldest

135
00:07:48.939 --> 00:07:52.839
unanswerable question in criminal law. Reddington told reporters he has

136
00:07:53.000 --> 00:07:55.110
no doubt the jury will overlook it, which is the

137
00:07:55.310 --> 00:07:57.779
only thing a lawyer can say out loud. It is

138
00:07:57.839 --> 00:08:02.189
also now preserved in the record for appeal. Tuesday, prosecutors

139
00:08:02.230 --> 00:08:06.009
put on their third and final rebuttal witness, Dr. Gregory Sathoff,

140
00:08:06.269 --> 00:08:09.370
a forensic psychiatrist and professor of emergency medicine who has

141
00:08:09.449 --> 00:08:12.550
worked with the FBI. And with that, the evidence in

142
00:08:12.569 --> 00:08:15.829
this case is done. So step back and look at

143
00:08:15.889 --> 00:08:19.910
what this jury actually has. On one side, a psychiatrist

144
00:08:19.930 --> 00:08:22.970
who testified for the defense in both Andrea Yates' trials

145
00:08:23.420 --> 00:08:25.779
who told them Clancy was in a dream state, a

146
00:08:25.879 --> 00:08:29.660
puppet with someone else pulling the strings. On the other,

147
00:08:29.980 --> 00:08:35.039
three prosecution experts saying depression, not psychosis, and that she knew.

148
00:08:35.830 --> 00:08:37.549
Two of them interviewed her in the same room in

149
00:08:37.629 --> 00:08:41.029
April and came out with the same answer. Somebody is

150
00:08:41.049 --> 00:08:43.509
going to tell you that means the experts cancel each

151
00:08:43.549 --> 00:08:46.309
other out. I do not think that is right, and

152
00:08:46.389 --> 00:08:49.559
here is why. This jury is not being asked to

153
00:08:49.600 --> 00:08:52.980
pick a diagnosis. They are being asked whether the Commonwealth

154
00:08:53.000 --> 00:08:55.120
carried a burden, and when a case comes down to

155
00:08:55.139 --> 00:08:58.500
competing experts, that burden gets harder, not easier.

156
00:08:59.090 --> 00:09:01.019
So today, both sides argue.

157
00:09:01.519 --> 00:09:04.789
Then Sullivan instructs the jury, the 18 get narrowed to

158
00:09:04.789 --> 00:09:07.690
12 at random, and it goes to a room. The

159
00:09:07.750 --> 00:09:11.649
standard is two-pronged and the defense only needs one. Either

160
00:09:11.710 --> 00:09:14.389
Lindsay Clancy could not appreciate the wrongfulness of what she

161
00:09:14.429 --> 00:09:16.950
was doing, or she could not conform her conduct to

162
00:09:16.970 --> 00:09:20.789
the requirements of the law. could not know, or could

163
00:09:20.830 --> 00:09:25.429
not stop. And the burden sits with the Commonwealth. Guilty

164
00:09:25.570 --> 00:09:30.080
of first-degree murder means life with no parole. Not criminally

165
00:09:30.120 --> 00:09:33.679
responsible means a state psychiatric facility under a commitment that

166
00:09:33.720 --> 00:09:37.379
can last the rest of her life. Cora Clancy was

167
00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:41.120
five years old. Dawson Clancy was three. Callan Clancy was

168
00:09:41.159 --> 00:09:43.830
eight months old. They have been dead for three and

169
00:09:43.870 --> 00:09:48.789
a half years while adults argued about diagnostic manuals. Everyone

170
00:09:48.809 --> 00:09:52.100
in America knows their mother's name. Someone has to say theirs.

171
00:09:54.120 --> 00:09:57.049
When we come back, both sides have rested in Jacksonville.

172
00:09:57.429 --> 00:10:00.600
Mario Fernandez Saldana never took the stand, and a second

173
00:10:00.639 --> 00:10:17.070
jury gets a murder case today. On the night of

174
00:10:17.129 --> 00:10:22.769
February 16th, 2022, Jared Bridegan dropped his twins, Abby and Liam,

175
00:10:22.970 --> 00:10:26.230
at their mother's house in Jacksonville Beach and started driving

176
00:10:26.269 --> 00:10:29.809
home with his two-year-old daughter, Bexley, in the backseat. On

177
00:10:29.850 --> 00:10:32.350
a dark one-way street, he found a tire lying in

178
00:10:32.389 --> 00:10:35.740
the road, stopped, and got out to move it. He

179
00:10:35.769 --> 00:10:38.980
was shot and killed. Bexley was strapped in her car

180
00:10:39.019 --> 00:10:42.659
seat a few feet away. Jared Bridegan was 33, a

181
00:10:43.000 --> 00:10:47.309
design manager at Microsoft, a father of four. Mario Fernandez

182
00:10:47.350 --> 00:10:52.149
Saldana is the estranged husband of Breitigan's ex-wife. He is

183
00:10:52.210 --> 00:10:56.090
charged with first-degree murder and solicitation to commit a capital felony.

184
00:10:56.730 --> 00:10:59.990
He has pleaded not guilty and he is presumed innocent.

185
00:11:00.610 --> 00:11:03.330
And one thing I should have told you yesterday. Back

186
00:11:03.370 --> 00:11:07.049
in July, two of the charges he originally faced, child

187
00:11:07.090 --> 00:11:11.230
abuse and conspiracy to commit murder, were dropped. He is

188
00:11:11.289 --> 00:11:14.620
going to the jury on two counts, not four. The

189
00:11:14.669 --> 00:11:18.149
state rested Monday. and they closed on money and a gun.

190
00:11:18.809 --> 00:11:25.389
The financial testimony walked jurors through the three checks, roughly $ 10, 000

191
00:11:23.470 --> 00:11:26.049
paid to Henry Tennant after the murder, one of them

192
00:11:26.110 --> 00:11:27.350
carrying a memo line reading.

193
00:11:27.429 --> 00:11:28.990
Kickstarter, good luck.

194
00:11:29.750 --> 00:11:32.049
The state's theory is that this is what a murder

195
00:11:32.090 --> 00:11:34.190
payment looks like when a man tries to make it

196
00:11:34.230 --> 00:11:37.509
look like a business expense. Then they called the person

197
00:11:37.549 --> 00:11:41.740
investigators believe supplied the weapon, and he denied it. That

198
00:11:41.879 --> 00:11:45.529
is how the prosecution ended its case. because the murder

199
00:11:45.549 --> 00:11:49.600
weapon in this case has never been found. Not in 2022,

200
00:11:49.600 --> 00:11:52.340
not in the four and a half years since. The

201
00:11:52.399 --> 00:11:55.600
state has implied Fernandez Saldana could have obtained the Glock,

202
00:11:55.980 --> 00:11:58.019
and the man they think handed it over got on

203
00:11:58.039 --> 00:12:01.519
a witness stand and said no. Then Tuesday morning, the

204
00:12:01.539 --> 00:12:04.279
defense put on its entire case in about half a day.

205
00:12:04.799 --> 00:12:07.440
Two witnesses, both of them schoolteachers.

206
00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:10.200
Jesse Dreiser called a teacher and the head of school

207
00:12:10.240 --> 00:12:13.379
from the private school in Jacksonville Beach that the twins attended.

208
00:12:14.289 --> 00:12:17.519
And what they said was this, that Shauna Gardner.

209
00:12:17.269 --> 00:12:22.940
And Mario Fernandez-Saldana were involved, friendly parents, that Fernandez-Saldana came

210
00:12:22.980 --> 00:12:26.179
to events and picked the kids up, that everybody at

211
00:12:26.200 --> 00:12:29.799
the school knew the couple was separating in 2022, and

212
00:12:29.840 --> 00:12:32.159
that he was supposed to move out over spring break,

213
00:12:32.600 --> 00:12:35.340
a plan that got delayed when Jared Breidigan was killed,

214
00:12:36.220 --> 00:12:39.100
and that after the murder, he stopped being involved with

215
00:12:39.159 --> 00:12:43.700
those children entirely. That is the defense case. Two teachers

216
00:12:43.759 --> 00:12:46.799
describing a normal dad at pickup. And I want to

217
00:12:46.850 --> 00:12:50.730
give that it's due because it is not nothing. The

218
00:12:50.769 --> 00:12:53.289
state's story requires you to believe that a man was

219
00:12:53.450 --> 00:12:56.450
orchestrating an ambush killing during the same months he was

220
00:12:56.509 --> 00:12:59.470
showing up at school events and carrying kids to the car.

221
00:12:59.889 --> 00:13:03.460
Juries do think about that. The teachers also confirmed something

222
00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:05.299
that cuts the state's motive theory a little.

223
00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:07.940
Everyone knew that marriage was ending.

224
00:13:07.759 --> 00:13:11.080
In 2022 and he was already scheduled to move out.

225
00:13:11.899 --> 00:13:13.980
If you're about to walk away from the marriage, the

226
00:13:14.059 --> 00:13:17.720
argument goes, why murder your wife's ex-husband over her custody fight?

227
00:13:18.379 --> 00:13:21.860
The state's answer is the trust fund. Prosecutors have told

228
00:13:21.899 --> 00:13:25.299
this jury that Fernandez Saldana was the trustee on money

229
00:13:25.350 --> 00:13:28.750
that came from Gardner's family, and that after Breitigan was killed,

230
00:13:28.830 --> 00:13:31.809
he moved $ 50, 000 of it into his own account and

231
00:13:31.870 --> 00:13:35.389
sold off what they had acquired together. Their version is

232
00:13:35.450 --> 00:13:38.870
that he was not walking away empty-handed. He was cashing out.

233
00:13:39.789 --> 00:13:42.970
And then Mario Fernandez Saldana did not testify. I want

234
00:13:42.990 --> 00:13:45.340
to be very careful here because this is where people

235
00:13:45.379 --> 00:13:48.580
get it wrong every single time. A defendant has an

236
00:13:48.759 --> 00:13:52.220
absolute right not to testify. The jury will be instructed

237
00:13:52.259 --> 00:13:54.820
they cannot hold it against him. And it is very

238
00:13:54.940 --> 00:13:58.080
often the correct call. Putting your client on the stand

239
00:13:58.120 --> 00:14:01.159
in a circumstantial case hands the prosecution a chance to

240
00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:05.039
cross-examine the only person who can explain the checks. Most

241
00:14:05.080 --> 00:14:07.730
defense lawyers would tell you not to do it. It

242
00:14:07.809 --> 00:14:10.289
is not evidence of anything, and I am not going

243
00:14:10.340 --> 00:14:12.720
to treat it like it is. But it does tell

244
00:14:12.759 --> 00:14:15.980
you what the defense believes. They are not trying to

245
00:14:16.039 --> 00:14:19.399
win by explaining. They are trying to win by pointing

246
00:14:19.460 --> 00:14:20.980
at the hole in the middle.

247
00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:24.059
Of the state's case. And there is a hole.

248
00:14:24.580 --> 00:14:28.879
No murder weapon, no DNA belonging to Fernandez Saldana on

249
00:14:29.120 --> 00:14:33.620
anything tested. No surveillance, no fingerprints, no hair putting him

250
00:14:33.659 --> 00:14:37.370
in Tennant's truck or in Jacksonville Beach that night. The

251
00:14:37.429 --> 00:14:40.350
lead detective conceded all of it on the stand. So

252
00:14:40.490 --> 00:14:44.350
the prosecution closed yesterday afternoon on the only argument available

253
00:14:44.389 --> 00:14:48.070
to them, and it is actually a coherent one. Their

254
00:14:48.110 --> 00:14:52.860
pitch is totality. Take all of it together. Fernandez-Saldana is

255
00:14:52.919 --> 00:14:56.980
the single connecting line between the alleged gunman and the victim.

256
00:14:57.559 --> 00:14:58.700
Tenon was his tenant.

257
00:14:59.080 --> 00:15:01.220
The tire matching the one in the road was found

258
00:15:01.259 --> 00:15:05.080
at his rental property. The phone contacts, the practice run

259
00:15:05.120 --> 00:15:08.740
down Breitigan's route, and then $ 10, 000 moving from him to

260
00:15:08.779 --> 00:15:12.299
Tenon in the weeks after. And the prosecutor made an

261
00:15:12.399 --> 00:15:14.730
argument that is going to matter a great deal in

262
00:15:14.759 --> 00:15:17.909
that deliberation room. He told the jury they do not

263
00:15:17.970 --> 00:15:20.990
need to hear the ask. Nobody has to produce a

264
00:15:21.049 --> 00:15:25.549
recording of Mario Fernandez Saldana asking Henry Tenon to kill anyone,

265
00:15:25.950 --> 00:15:29.950
because the killing itself is proof the ask happened. That

266
00:15:30.009 --> 00:15:32.769
is a real legal argument, and it is also a

267
00:15:32.809 --> 00:15:36.299
big swing. It asks 12 people to reason backward from

268
00:15:36.360 --> 00:15:40.019
a dead man to a conversation nobody heard. An attorney

269
00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:42.519
not involved in the case put it about as plainly

270
00:15:42.659 --> 00:15:46.009
as anyone has. When it is all said and done,

271
00:15:46.350 --> 00:15:49.549
what does the jury believe about those checks? Were they

272
00:15:49.610 --> 00:15:52.149
written to commit a murder, or were they written for

273
00:15:52.250 --> 00:15:56.409
tree work, roof work, and tile? Everything else in this

274
00:15:56.490 --> 00:16:00.980
trial is arrangement around that one question. The defense closes

275
00:16:01.029 --> 00:16:05.179
this morning. Judge London Kite instructs the jury, and that

276
00:16:05.240 --> 00:16:08.519
case goes into a room this afternoon. One more thing,

277
00:16:09.009 --> 00:16:12.649
and it is why this trial matters beyond itself. Shanna

278
00:16:12.669 --> 00:16:16.129
Gardner has pleaded not guilty and is presumed innocent, and

279
00:16:16.250 --> 00:16:20.970
jury selection in her trial begins Monday, August 31st. Whatever

280
00:16:21.009 --> 00:16:23.830
this jury does today lands directly on top of that.

281
00:16:24.649 --> 00:16:28.389
Jared Breidegen was 33 years old. He had four children.

282
00:16:28.820 --> 00:16:31.259
The youngest one was two, and she was in the car.

283
00:16:32.039 --> 00:16:35.240
His widow, Kirsten, has sat in that courtroom every day,

284
00:16:35.539 --> 00:16:38.720
including the day they played video of an evidence technician

285
00:16:38.759 --> 00:16:41.460
walking up to the scene in the dark. Four and

286
00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:44.429
a half years to get one jury. Someone has to

287
00:16:44.470 --> 00:16:48.350
say his name. When we come back, a hot microphone

288
00:16:48.370 --> 00:16:50.909
in a recording studio and a judge who ruled that

289
00:16:50.990 --> 00:17:12.029
what it caught was fair game. As we told you Monday,

290
00:17:12.089 --> 00:17:14.880
we are running Las Vegas one day behind. Court Out

291
00:17:14.910 --> 00:17:17.319
West runs on Pacific time and is often still in

292
00:17:17.380 --> 00:17:20.200
session when we record. So what follows is where the

293
00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:22.440
Dwayne Davis trial stood as of Monday.

294
00:17:22.740 --> 00:17:23.440
Quick reset.

295
00:17:24.099 --> 00:17:27.980
Tupac Shakur was shot on September 7th, 1996 at an

296
00:17:28.079 --> 00:17:31.309
intersection off the Las Vegas Strip and died six days

297
00:17:31.369 --> 00:17:35.609
later at 25. Dwayne Davis, known as Kefi D, is

298
00:17:35.609 --> 00:17:38.730
63 and the only person ever charged. He has pleaded

299
00:17:38.930 --> 00:17:41.690
not guilty. His defense is not that somebody else said

300
00:17:41.730 --> 00:17:44.549
these things. It is that he said them and they

301
00:17:44.569 --> 00:17:48.150
were fiction invented across two decades to sell books and

302
00:17:48.170 --> 00:17:51.789
get on television. Which brings us to Monday and a

303
00:17:51.950 --> 00:17:56.640
man named Michael Dorsey. Dorsey has worked in true crime

304
00:17:56.660 --> 00:18:00.140
television for about 20 years. He got into the Tupac

305
00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:03.900
and Biggie cases around 2012, helped make a documentary called

306
00:18:04.019 --> 00:18:06.869
Murder Rap, and later worked as a contractor on a

307
00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:12.289
BET docuseries about death row records. In July of 2017,

308
00:18:12.289 --> 00:18:15.859
Davis sat down to be interviewed for that series. Dorsey

309
00:18:15.930 --> 00:18:18.380
was not in the room. He was in an office

310
00:18:18.420 --> 00:18:21.619
down the hall, listening to the live studio feed through headphones.

311
00:18:22.420 --> 00:18:24.400
And he put his phone next to the speaker and

312
00:18:24.460 --> 00:18:28.609
recorded the entire thing. Not the interview. The entire thing.

313
00:18:29.190 --> 00:18:33.950
Including the breaks. Including conversations involving Davis and his own attorney.

314
00:18:34.690 --> 00:18:37.950
Dorsey's explanation was that Davis had shown up unprepared the

315
00:18:37.970 --> 00:18:40.730
first day. that he knew there would need to be

316
00:18:40.829 --> 00:18:43.890
a second session, and that he wanted the material so

317
00:18:43.930 --> 00:18:47.690
the production team could write better follow-up questions. He also

318
00:18:47.750 --> 00:18:50.470
said he did not think he needed separate permission because

319
00:18:50.599 --> 00:18:53.420
it was part of his job. And here is the

320
00:18:53.500 --> 00:18:57.140
detail that made me sit up. Dorsey testified that at

321
00:18:57.240 --> 00:19:00.859
one point during that session, Davis warned the room, this.

322
00:19:00.700 --> 00:19:01.440
Is a hot mic.

323
00:19:02.079 --> 00:19:04.619
He knew. He knew there was a live microphone in

324
00:19:04.640 --> 00:19:07.009
that room. He said so out loud. And then he

325
00:19:07.029 --> 00:19:10.349
kept talking for hours. The defense fought hard to keep

326
00:19:10.390 --> 00:19:13.829
that recording out, and the fight was about attorney-client privilege,

327
00:19:14.269 --> 00:19:17.539
because Davis' lawyer at the time was in that studio.

328
00:19:18.190 --> 00:19:21.839
Judge Carly Kearney ruled against them. Her reasoning was that

329
00:19:21.900 --> 00:19:24.839
there were third parties present, maybe half a dozen people,

330
00:19:25.299 --> 00:19:28.839
that this was a recording studio, that there were microphones

331
00:19:28.880 --> 00:19:31.349
in the room, and that Davis had signed a release.

332
00:19:32.109 --> 00:19:36.910
Privilege protects a confidential conversation. Kearney's point is that nothing

333
00:19:36.970 --> 00:19:40.380
about that room was confidential. So the jury heard about

334
00:19:40.380 --> 00:19:43.680
40 minutes of it. In the recording, Davis talks about

335
00:19:43.740 --> 00:19:47.549
Sean Combs. Interviewers push him repeatedly to say plainly that

336
00:19:47.670 --> 00:19:50.519
money was offered, and Davis says at one point that

337
00:19:50.579 --> 00:19:53.079
he guesses Combs wanted the big guy taken care of.

338
00:19:53.660 --> 00:19:55.779
And I need to say clearly, as we have every

339
00:19:55.819 --> 00:19:58.880
time this comes up, Sean Combs has denied any involvement

340
00:19:58.920 --> 00:20:01.779
in Tupac Shakur's death, has never been charged in connection

341
00:20:01.819 --> 00:20:04.960
with it, and has never been named a suspect. This

342
00:20:05.140 --> 00:20:08.319
is a recording of a man's claim, not a finding.

343
00:20:08.869 --> 00:20:11.630
Davis also said he never actually got any money, that

344
00:20:11.710 --> 00:20:15.049
things were too hot afterward. He talked about his nephew,

345
00:20:15.250 --> 00:20:17.960
Orlando Anderson, and called him his best friend.

346
00:20:18.390 --> 00:20:19.630
His everything.

347
00:20:20.539 --> 00:20:24.059
And that word matters, because the state's entire theory of

348
00:20:24.160 --> 00:20:27.480
motive is that when Anderson got beaten at the MGM

349
00:20:27.500 --> 00:20:31.240
Grand that night, Davis could not let it stand. Davis

350
00:20:31.279 --> 00:20:33.960
described that part himself in the recording. He said that

351
00:20:34.140 --> 00:20:37.349
after the beating, the group went to Club 662, looking

352
00:20:37.369 --> 00:20:41.529
for the people responsible, waited around an hour, and nobody showed.

353
00:20:42.009 --> 00:20:43.970
He also said he had known Suge Knight since he

354
00:20:43.990 --> 00:20:45.990
was nine years old, and that he had helped him

355
00:20:46.009 --> 00:20:48.390
get his record business going, which is why he wanted

356
00:20:48.430 --> 00:20:51.549
to talk to him. Asked why he ever agreed to

357
00:20:51.589 --> 00:20:54.430
tell his story to police in the first place, Davis'

358
00:20:54.609 --> 00:20:57.630
answer was essentially that he did it to save his life.

359
00:20:58.559 --> 00:21:02.259
He was looking at serious prison exposure on unrelated drug charges,

360
00:21:02.460 --> 00:21:05.519
and cooperating was the way out. He also denied any

361
00:21:05.559 --> 00:21:08.819
involvement in the killing of Christopher Wallace, Biggie Smalls, and

362
00:21:08.900 --> 00:21:11.849
called Biggie a friend. The court has told this jury

363
00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:15.089
directly that neither the Los Angeles police nor the court

364
00:21:15.150 --> 00:21:18.009
has any indication Davis was involved in that murder, and

365
00:21:18.130 --> 00:21:21.150
both sides agreed to a limiting instruction on it. And

366
00:21:21.210 --> 00:21:26.079
then something genuinely strange happened. Interviewers pointed out that Anderson

367
00:21:26.130 --> 00:21:29.799
was dead and could not face consequences, and asked directly

368
00:21:29.900 --> 00:21:34.000
whether Anderson went after Tupac that night. And Davis said no.

369
00:21:34.420 --> 00:21:38.240
He said no, he didn't. No, he didn't go after Tupac.

370
00:21:38.839 --> 00:21:41.059
Which is the opposite of what he told Los Angeles

371
00:21:41.079 --> 00:21:44.349
detectives in 2008, when he said Anderson was the one

372
00:21:44.390 --> 00:21:47.890
who rolled down the window and fired. That contradiction is

373
00:21:47.950 --> 00:21:51.529
either the state's problem or the defense's gift, depending on

374
00:21:51.569 --> 00:21:54.789
how you look at it. Michael Sanft's whole case is

375
00:21:54.809 --> 00:21:57.509
that Davis is a man who says whatever the moment

376
00:21:57.549 --> 00:22:00.170
calls for. Tell it to detectives one.

377
00:22:00.089 --> 00:22:01.109
Way when you need a deal.

378
00:22:01.450 --> 00:22:04.170
Tell it another way on camera when a documentary is

379
00:22:04.250 --> 00:22:08.009
paying you. Put a third version in a book. Samft

380
00:22:08.049 --> 00:22:11.000
has told this jury that talk is not corroboration. And

381
00:22:11.039 --> 00:22:13.940
the more versions the state plays, the more he gets

382
00:22:13.980 --> 00:22:16.940
to make that point for free. And Samft spent the

383
00:22:17.019 --> 00:22:21.660
afternoon proving it, though not about Davis, about Dorsey. He

384
00:22:21.720 --> 00:22:24.720
established that Dorsey is not a detective. that he never

385
00:22:24.809 --> 00:22:28.109
interviewed the Las Vegas police detectives actually responsible for the

386
00:22:28.150 --> 00:22:31.930
case while doing his documentary research, and that much of

387
00:22:31.970 --> 00:22:36.349
his material came from Greg Kading, the former LAPD detective

388
00:22:36.390 --> 00:22:39.690
who wrote the book that put the Combs theory into circulation.

389
00:22:40.630 --> 00:22:45.150
He walked Dorsey through claims in Davis' memoir, The Versace Suit,

390
00:22:45.650 --> 00:22:49.279
The Rooms at Caesar's Palace, The Tyson Fight, and got

391
00:22:49.339 --> 00:22:52.819
Dorsey to acknowledge he had not independently verified several of them.

392
00:22:53.490 --> 00:22:56.500
And then Sanft finished with something I have to admire

393
00:22:56.660 --> 00:22:59.940
as pure craft. He pointed the jury to the disclaimer

394
00:22:59.980 --> 00:23:03.140
printed in Compton Street Legend, the one where the authors

395
00:23:03.180 --> 00:23:07.559
and publishers assume no responsibility for errors, inaccuracies, or omissions.

396
00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:10.829
The state's best evidence is a book that says on

397
00:23:10.869 --> 00:23:13.529
its own copyright page that it might not be accurate.

398
00:23:14.009 --> 00:23:17.069
That is a hell of a closing beat, and Sanft

399
00:23:17.109 --> 00:23:20.710
knew it. But prosecutors had one thing left on redirect,

400
00:23:20.869 --> 00:23:23.730
and it may be the most important thing that happened Monday.

401
00:23:24.390 --> 00:23:27.089
There was a Chrysler Sebring at that intersection the night

402
00:23:27.130 --> 00:23:30.670
Tupac was shot, with young women in it. And Dorsey

403
00:23:30.710 --> 00:23:33.559
testified that as far as he knows, Davis was the

404
00:23:33.579 --> 00:23:37.220
first person ever to identify that car as specifically a

405
00:23:37.339 --> 00:23:42.119
Sebring in his 2008 statement before that detail was public.

406
00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:45.890
That is what corroboration looks like in a case like this.

407
00:23:46.509 --> 00:23:49.849
Not a fingerprint. A man knowing the make and model

408
00:23:49.890 --> 00:23:52.670
of a car that was there. Because that is the

409
00:23:52.750 --> 00:23:57.059
entire trial in one question. If Dwayne Davis was making

410
00:23:57.119 --> 00:23:59.359
it all up to sell books, how did he know

411
00:23:59.420 --> 00:24:04.319
about the Sebring? Tupac Shakur was 25 years old, 30 years,

412
00:24:04.700 --> 00:24:07.460
one defendant, and a jury that has now spent two

413
00:24:07.519 --> 00:24:10.940
weeks listening to a man's own voice on tape. Someone

414
00:24:10.980 --> 00:24:17.519
has to say his name. That's the show for Wednesday,

415
00:24:17.920 --> 00:24:21.880
August 26. If this was useful, send it to one person.

416
00:24:22.569 --> 00:24:25.009
That is the entire engine on a show like this.

417
00:24:25.589 --> 00:24:28.789
And if you're listening on Spotify, drop a comment because

418
00:24:28.890 --> 00:24:32.809
today is a rare one. Two juries, two cases, both

419
00:24:32.869 --> 00:24:36.289
going into deliberations on the same afternoon. Tell me which

420
00:24:36.349 --> 00:24:39.650
verdict you think lands first and which way each one goes.

421
00:24:40.230 --> 00:24:43.150
We will be here for both of them. I'm Garrett Fisher.

422
00:24:43.529 --> 00:24:44.049
Do better.

423
00:24:47.710 --> 00:24:51.369
A few notes on sourcing and timing. This episode was

424
00:24:51.430 --> 00:24:55.529
recorded before court opened Wednesday morning. Closing arguments in the

425
00:24:55.569 --> 00:24:59.109
Lindsay Clancy trial were expected Wednesday, and Judge Sullivan had

426
00:24:59.230 --> 00:25:03.240
indicated deliberations would follow. But schedules in that courtroom have

427
00:25:03.319 --> 00:25:07.319
moved more than once. As of recording, Sullivan had also

428
00:25:07.380 --> 00:25:10.819
not announced whether involuntary manslaughter would be included as a

429
00:25:10.940 --> 00:25:15.579
verdict option. In Jacksonville, the defense closing and jury instructions

430
00:25:15.619 --> 00:25:19.809
were expected Wednesday morning with deliberations to follow Wednesday afternoon.

431
00:25:20.730 --> 00:25:22.990
Nothing here should be taken as a report on what

432
00:25:23.130 --> 00:25:27.789
actually happened in either courtroom today. On Las Vegas, this

433
00:25:27.849 --> 00:25:31.849
segment covers Monday's proceedings. Court in Nevada runs on Pacific

434
00:25:31.890 --> 00:25:34.819
time and is frequently still in session when we record,

435
00:25:35.160 --> 00:25:37.519
so we run that case one day behind by design

436
00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:39.500
rather than guess at partial reporting.

437
00:25:40.099 --> 00:25:41.640
Testimony continued Tuesday.

438
00:25:42.039 --> 00:25:45.799
Our accounts of courtroom exchanges, including the mistrial argument and

439
00:25:45.859 --> 00:25:49.579
the jurors' reactions to the judge's instruction, come from reporters

440
00:25:49.640 --> 00:25:52.960
present in the room rather than from transcripts.

441
00:25:52.369 --> 00:25:53.009
We have reviewed.

442
00:25:53.680 --> 00:25:56.490
Outlets differ on some details of the Clancy trial's length

443
00:25:56.609 --> 00:25:59.769
and witness count. And at least one national outlet has

444
00:25:59.910 --> 00:26:02.490
misstated the number of children Andrea Yates killed in 2001.

445
00:26:02.490 --> 00:26:03.369
That number is five.

446
00:26:06.289 --> 00:26:10.250
On the Jacksonville case, Mario Fernandez Saldana has pleaded not

447
00:26:10.309 --> 00:26:14.349
guilty and is presumed innocent. So have Shanna Gardner and

448
00:26:14.390 --> 00:26:18.390
Henry Tennant, who face separate trials. Henry Tennant pleaded guilty

449
00:26:18.539 --> 00:26:22.430
in 2023 and later withdrew that plea, telling the court

450
00:26:22.490 --> 00:26:25.440
his statements under it were false. So we do not

451
00:26:25.519 --> 00:26:28.539
treat anything he said under that agreement as fact or

452
00:26:28.779 --> 00:26:29.279
use it as.

453
00:26:29.259 --> 00:26:30.380
Evidence against anyone.

454
00:26:31.420 --> 00:26:35.190
A defendant's decision not to testify is a constitutional right

455
00:26:35.309 --> 00:26:39.250
and cannot be considered evidence of guilt. Testimony from defense

456
00:26:39.289 --> 00:26:42.490
witnesses characterizing members of the victim's family has been reported

457
00:26:42.549 --> 00:26:45.779
elsewhere and is not included here because it does not

458
00:26:45.839 --> 00:26:46.819
bear on the charges.

459
00:26:47.880 --> 00:26:48.849
On Las Vegas..

460
00:26:49.170 --> 00:26:52.750
Allegations Dwayne Davis has made in recorded interviews about living

461
00:26:52.789 --> 00:26:55.529
people who have never been charged in this case, including

462
00:26:55.589 --> 00:26:58.750
Sean Combs, are claims made by a man whose own

463
00:26:58.789 --> 00:27:02.160
attorney has told the jury he cannot be corroborated and

464
00:27:02.200 --> 00:27:05.680
who has said parts of his book were invented. Combs

465
00:27:05.720 --> 00:27:09.160
has denied involvement, has never been charged in connection with

466
00:27:09.200 --> 00:27:12.759
Tupac Shakur's death, and has never been named a suspect.

467
00:27:13.700 --> 00:27:16.369
The jury has also been instructed that there is no

468
00:27:16.430 --> 00:27:19.049
indication Davis had anything to do with the murder of

469
00:27:19.150 --> 00:27:24.650
Christopher Wallace. This episode discusses child deaths, suicide, and postpartum

470
00:27:24.710 --> 00:27:27.799
mental illness. If you are struggling, you can call or

471
00:27:27.859 --> 00:27:31.140
text 988 in the United States to reach the Suicide

472
00:27:31.160 --> 00:27:35.480
and Crisis Lifeline. For postpartum mental health specifically, the National

473
00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:38.710
Maternal Mental Health Hotline is available by call or text

474
00:27:38.769 --> 00:27:46.150
at 1-833-TLC-MAMA. Postpartum psychosis is rare, it is a medical emergency,

475
00:27:46.430 --> 00:27:49.529
and it is treatable when it is caught. The overwhelming

476
00:27:49.589 --> 00:27:53.279
majority of people who experience postpartum mental illness never harm anyone.