Feb. 10, 2026

"THE KILLER NURSE: LUCY LETBY, 7 DEAD BABIES & THE NETFLIX DOCUMENTARY DIVIDING A NATION"

"THE KILLER NURSE: LUCY LETBY, 7 DEAD BABIES & THE NETFLIX DOCUMENTARY DIVIDING A NATION"
Apple Podcasts podcast player iconSpotify podcast player icon
Apple Podcasts podcast player iconSpotify podcast player icon

Reid Carter takes a deep dive into the case dominating Netflix right now. Lucy Letby, a British neonatal nurse convicted of murdering seven babies and attempting to murder seven more at the Countess of Chester Hospital between 2015 and 2016. Injected air into bloodstreams. Poisoned with insulin. Wrote "I am evil, I did this" on a Post-it note. Sentenced to 15 whole-life orders - she will die in prison. But now international medical experts say there's no evidence she killed anyone. Netflix's new documentary is reigniting the debate. Is Lucy Letby Britain's worst female serial killer - or its greatest miscarriage of justice?

Join our new FB groups page here. Take the poll!

Join the Celebrity Trials community on social media! We're building a passionate group of true crime enthusiasts who love diving deep into the most shocking cases in America.
Follow us on Facebook and Instagram by searching "Celebrity Trials Podcast" on either platform.


You'll get exclusive behind-the-scenes content, breaking news updates on cases we're covering, and early alerts when new episodes drop. Our social media is where Reid Carter's hottest takes live, including reactions that don't make it into the show.

But more importantly, it's where YOU come in. Share your theories, debate the verdicts, and connect with fellow listeners who are just as obsessed with justice as you are. Did the jury get it right? What questions do you still have? Your comments and insights often shape future episodes.


We cover the trials that matter, but our community makes the conversation unforgettable. Come for Reid's signature cynical commentary, stay for the incredible discussions with thousands of true crime fans who get it.

WEBVTT

1
00:00:03.200 --> 00:00:13.439
Caalarogashark Media. Good morning. I'm Red Carter, Tuesday, February tenth,

2
00:00:13.599 --> 00:00:17.280
twenty twenty six taking a break from the courtrooms today

3
00:00:17.320 --> 00:00:20.320
to talk about something you've probably already seen in your

4
00:00:20.359 --> 00:00:24.120
Netflix queue. Maybe you've already watched it. Maybe you're one

5
00:00:24.160 --> 00:00:26.679
of the sixty million people who've clicked on it in

6
00:00:26.719 --> 00:00:31.719
the last six days. The Investigation of Lucy Letbee, Netflix's

7
00:00:31.800 --> 00:00:35.920
number one documentary worldwide right now, ninety minutes about a

8
00:00:35.960 --> 00:00:40.600
British neonatal nurse convicted of murdering seven babies attempting to

9
00:00:40.719 --> 00:00:45.079
murder seven more. Sentenced to fifteen whole life orders. That's

10
00:00:45.119 --> 00:00:48.799
the harshest sentence in the British legal system. She will

11
00:00:48.880 --> 00:00:52.000
die in prison. But here's why it's number one on

12
00:00:52.079 --> 00:00:57.039
Netflix and not just another true crime documentary because half

13
00:00:57.079 --> 00:01:00.280
the people who watch it think she's a monster and

14
00:01:00.359 --> 00:01:05.239
the other half think she's innocent. Lucy let Be thirty

15
00:01:05.280 --> 00:01:08.920
six years old former nurse at the Countess of Chester

16
00:01:09.040 --> 00:01:13.959
Hospital in northern England. Between June twenty fifteen and June

17
00:01:13.959 --> 00:01:18.280
twenty sixteen. Prosecutors say she went on a killing spree

18
00:01:18.439 --> 00:01:23.719
in the neonatal unit, injected air into tiny bloodstreams, poisoned

19
00:01:23.719 --> 00:01:27.840
babies with insulin, overfed them with milk to restrict their breathing,

20
00:01:28.319 --> 00:01:32.959
manipulated breathing tubes, attacked the most vulnerable patients on the planet,

21
00:01:33.319 --> 00:01:37.359
premature infants fighting for their lives. Police searched her home

22
00:01:37.400 --> 00:01:41.760
after her arrest found handwritten notes post it notes. One

23
00:01:41.760 --> 00:01:46.120
of them read, I am evil. I did this case

24
00:01:46.159 --> 00:01:49.959
closed right? Monster caught? Lock her up, throw away the

25
00:01:50.040 --> 00:01:54.599
key except now. An international panel of fourteen medical experts

26
00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:57.879
says there's no evidence she killed anyone. Says the babies

27
00:01:57.959 --> 00:02:01.439
died from natural causes or bad metal care at an understaffed,

28
00:02:01.439 --> 00:02:05.280
failing hospital. Says the prosecution's key evidence was based on

29
00:02:05.319 --> 00:02:09.599
a misinterpretation of a nineteen eighty nine research paper. Says

30
00:02:09.639 --> 00:02:12.280
the scientist whose work was cited at trial was never

31
00:02:12.360 --> 00:02:15.919
asked to testify, and when he finally reviewed the case,

32
00:02:16.280 --> 00:02:20.000
he said his research was misused. The Criminal Case's Review

33
00:02:20.000 --> 00:02:23.000
Commission is considering whether this is a miscarriage of justice.

34
00:02:23.479 --> 00:02:26.800
Letb's defense team has submitted thirty one expert reports from

35
00:02:26.840 --> 00:02:30.759
twenty six specialists. The Thoroughwall inquiry into what happened at

36
00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:34.240
the hospital has been delayed until after Easter. Three former

37
00:02:34.280 --> 00:02:37.479
senior hospital staff were arrested last June on suspicion of

38
00:02:37.520 --> 00:02:41.639
gross negligence manslaughter, and Netflix dropped a documentary right in

39
00:02:41.680 --> 00:02:44.719
the middle of all of it, using artificial intelligence to

40
00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:49.039
digitally disguise the faces of witnesses, showing never before seen

41
00:02:49.080 --> 00:02:52.639
footage of Letb's arrest at her parents' home. Her parents,

42
00:02:52.680 --> 00:02:56.120
who had no idea Netflix had the footage, said watching

43
00:02:56.199 --> 00:03:01.719
it would likely kill us. I'm read Carter today. The

44
00:03:01.759 --> 00:03:05.759
case of Lucy Letb, the murders, the trial, the conviction,

45
00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:09.560
the doubt, and whether Netflix just made a true crime

46
00:03:09.599 --> 00:03:14.560
documentary or accidentally exposed the greatest wrongful conviction in British history.

47
00:03:14.879 --> 00:03:24.199
This is celebrity trials. Lucy Letbe was born January fourth,

48
00:03:24.319 --> 00:03:29.719
nineteen ninety in Hereford, England. Only child. Father sold furniture.

49
00:03:30.280 --> 00:03:34.400
Mother was an account's clerk. Unremarkable childhood, went to church school,

50
00:03:34.680 --> 00:03:37.960
attended Hereford's sixth form College. Wanted to be a nurse

51
00:03:38.000 --> 00:03:42.319
from a young age. Why neonatal nursing specifically A childhood

52
00:03:42.319 --> 00:03:45.120
friend told the BBC that Letby had a difficult birth

53
00:03:45.159 --> 00:03:49.000
herself nearly didn't survive. Was grateful to the nurses who

54
00:03:49.039 --> 00:03:52.039
saved her life wanted to do the same for other babies.

55
00:03:52.599 --> 00:03:56.039
She studied nursing at the University of Chester three years

56
00:03:56.080 --> 00:03:59.520
of training, did placements at Liverpool Women's Hospital and the

57
00:03:59.560 --> 00:04:04.280
Countess of Chester Hospital. Graduated in September twenty eleven with

58
00:04:04.360 --> 00:04:07.840
a Bachelor of Science in Nursing, specializing in child nursing.

59
00:04:08.240 --> 00:04:11.199
First person in her family to go to university. But

60
00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:15.719
there were early warning signs. Maybe or maybe they were

61
00:04:15.800 --> 00:04:18.439
just the struggles of a new nurse learning her profession.

62
00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:23.759
Depends on who you ask. Her first clinical assessor, Nicola Lightfoot,

63
00:04:23.959 --> 00:04:26.920
failed her on her final year placement, said let Be

64
00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:31.319
was lacking in clinical and medication knowledge, needed more experience

65
00:04:31.360 --> 00:04:35.360
reading nonverbal signs of distress from parents. At the thorough

66
00:04:35.399 --> 00:04:38.920
Wall Inquiry in twenty twenty four, Lightfoot used a specific

67
00:04:38.959 --> 00:04:43.360
word to describe let Be cold. Let Be requested a

68
00:04:43.360 --> 00:04:48.600
new assessor passed her retrieval placement. Graduated January twenty twelve.

69
00:04:49.199 --> 00:04:52.160
Let Be started working at the Countess of Chester Hospital's

70
00:04:52.160 --> 00:04:57.240
neonatal unit, cared for premature babies, sick newborns, the most

71
00:04:57.279 --> 00:05:00.920
fragile patients in medicine. She seemed to it in a

72
00:05:00.920 --> 00:05:05.000
twenty thirteen staff profile, she said she enjoyed seeing them

73
00:05:05.040 --> 00:05:08.680
progress and supporting their families. She helped raise funds for

74
00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:13.480
a new neonatal unit, volunteered for extra shifts. Seemed dedicated,

75
00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:17.120
but she also told colleagues she found non intensive care

76
00:05:17.240 --> 00:05:21.519
work boring. Wanted the sickest babies, the most critical cases,

77
00:05:21.800 --> 00:05:27.439
the ones fighting for survival. July twenty thirteen, let Be

78
00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:30.360
and a senior nurse set an infant's morphine infusion rate

79
00:05:30.399 --> 00:05:34.040
at ten times the correct amount. The deputy ward manager

80
00:05:34.079 --> 00:05:38.120
suspended let Be from administering controlled drugs. Let Be was

81
00:05:38.199 --> 00:05:41.639
upset complained to the unit manager, who was on leave

82
00:05:41.759 --> 00:05:45.040
during the incident. The suspension was lifted a week later

83
00:05:45.319 --> 00:05:50.199
after let Be complained it was an overreaction. April twenty sixteen,

84
00:05:50.720 --> 00:05:54.279
let Be administered antibiotics to a baby that wasn't prescribed them.

85
00:05:54.800 --> 00:05:58.279
Classified it as a minor error, was reassigned from night

86
00:05:58.319 --> 00:06:01.360
shifts to day shifts. The use incidents could mean something,

87
00:06:01.800 --> 00:06:03.800
or they could be the normal mistakes of a busy

88
00:06:03.879 --> 00:06:08.279
nurse in an understaffed unit. Nurses make medication errors, it happens.

89
00:06:08.639 --> 00:06:12.120
Doesn't make them murderers. But here's where the story turns dark.

90
00:06:12.600 --> 00:06:16.759
June twenty fifteen, the Countess of Chester Hospital's neonatal unit

91
00:06:16.800 --> 00:06:20.759
typically saw two or three infant deaths per year, normal

92
00:06:20.800 --> 00:06:24.000
for a unit that size. Tragic, but expected when you're

93
00:06:24.000 --> 00:06:28.680
caring for the most fragile patients. In June twenty fifteen, alone,

94
00:06:29.319 --> 00:06:34.079
four babies collapsed, three died. The neonatal death rate more

95
00:06:34.120 --> 00:06:37.800
than doubled. An independent monitoring project found the death rate

96
00:06:37.920 --> 00:06:41.160
was at least ten percent higher than expected between June

97
00:06:41.240 --> 00:06:47.839
twenty fifteen and June twenty sixteen. Something was wrong. Lead neonatologist,

98
00:06:47.879 --> 00:06:51.519
doctor Stephen brarie noticed a pattern. One nurse was on

99
00:06:51.639 --> 00:06:56.160
shift for every single collapse, every single death, Lucy let Be,

100
00:06:56.839 --> 00:06:59.800
but Brariy initially dismissed it. There was only one other

101
00:07:00.079 --> 00:07:03.240
qualified junior nurse in the unit. Let Be often worked

102
00:07:03.279 --> 00:07:06.519
extra shifts to cover staffing shortages. Of course, she'd be

103
00:07:06.560 --> 00:07:11.120
present for most incidents. Statistical coincidence, not evidence of murder.

104
00:07:11.639 --> 00:07:15.720
Nobody had any concerns about her practice, Brariy said, except

105
00:07:15.720 --> 00:07:20.360
the deaths kept coming, baby after baby, collapse after collapse,

106
00:07:20.720 --> 00:07:24.480
and Lucy Letby was always there. The hospital conducted an

107
00:07:24.519 --> 00:07:29.600
informal review classed the deaths as medication errors. No police involvement,

108
00:07:29.759 --> 00:07:34.600
no formal investigation, just internal reviews that went nowhere. February

109
00:07:34.600 --> 00:07:39.079
twenty sixteen, the Care Quality Commission visited, heard about difficulties

110
00:07:39.120 --> 00:07:43.279
raising concerns with management. Found short staffing and skill mix issues,

111
00:07:43.600 --> 00:07:47.639
but praised the overall culture. Said staff felt well supported

112
00:07:47.839 --> 00:07:51.959
and able to raise concerns. Nobody mentioned the elevated death rate.

113
00:07:52.519 --> 00:07:56.040
May twenty sixteen, the executive team deemed the spike in

114
00:07:56.160 --> 00:08:00.639
deaths coincidental, no substantial action taken, the baby's kept dying

115
00:08:00.920 --> 00:08:05.560
and Lucy let Be kept working. June twenty sixteen, let

116
00:08:05.600 --> 00:08:08.639
Be returned from a holiday in Ibisa, two more babies

117
00:08:08.680 --> 00:08:13.480
died almost immediately. Doctor Brarie called the duty executive demanded

118
00:08:13.560 --> 00:08:16.519
let Be be removed from the unit. The duty executive

119
00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:19.720
insisted she was safe to work. Two more dead babies,

120
00:08:20.079 --> 00:08:23.720
a doctor begging management to remove a nurse, management saying no,

121
00:08:24.360 --> 00:08:27.319
make it make sense. Finally, at the end of June

122
00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:32.240
twenty sixteen, the hospital's executive directors discussed involving police, decided

123
00:08:32.279 --> 00:08:35.320
against it. Instead, they ordered a review from the Royal

124
00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:39.080
College of Pediatrics and Child Health. Let Be was removed

125
00:08:39.080 --> 00:08:42.960
from the unit. On June thirtieth, transferred to an administrative role,

126
00:08:43.600 --> 00:08:47.240
and just like that, the collapses stopped. The mortality rate

127
00:08:47.320 --> 00:08:52.360
returned to normal coincidence or confirmation. But here's what happened

128
00:08:52.360 --> 00:08:55.960
next that should make your blood boil. The Royal College

129
00:08:55.960 --> 00:09:00.320
reviewed the unit, found insufficient staffing and senior cover, but

130
00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:04.559
praised Letby's nursing skills. Called the concerns about her a

131
00:09:04.600 --> 00:09:09.279
subjective view with no other evidence. Recommended further case reviews.

132
00:09:09.960 --> 00:09:12.720
Let Be filed a formal grievance about being removed from

133
00:09:12.720 --> 00:09:17.200
clinical duties. The hospital board upheld it, said her removal

134
00:09:17.240 --> 00:09:20.559
had been orchestrated by the consultants with no hard evidence.

135
00:09:21.679 --> 00:09:24.360
The chief executive met with Letby and her parents in

136
00:09:24.440 --> 00:09:28.919
December two thousand sixteen, apologized on behalf of the hospital,

137
00:09:29.399 --> 00:09:32.759
promised the doctors who raised concerns would be dealt with.

138
00:09:34.360 --> 00:09:36.559
The doctors who tried to stop the killing were forced

139
00:09:36.600 --> 00:09:40.559
to write Lucy let Be a letter of apology. February

140
00:09:40.559 --> 00:09:45.000
two thousand seventeen, the whistleblowers apologized to the suspect, your

141
00:09:45.039 --> 00:09:48.879
tax dollars at work, well, your n h S contributions

142
00:09:48.919 --> 00:09:53.000
at work. March two thousand seventeen, four consultants, including Brarie,

143
00:09:53.240 --> 00:09:57.559
went directly to Cheshire Police. Enough was enough. Management wouldn't act,

144
00:09:58.159 --> 00:10:01.360
so they went around management. Let Be was due back

145
00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:05.960
on the unit. May third, Police opened Operation Hummingbird, the

146
00:10:06.039 --> 00:10:10.240
investigation that would eventually lead to Lucy Letbe's arrest, trial

147
00:10:10.399 --> 00:10:13.320
and conviction, but it took another year and a half

148
00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:18.799
before she was even arrested. We'll be right back with

149
00:10:18.840 --> 00:10:22.000
the evidence that convicted Lucy let Be. The post it notes,

150
00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:26.440
the Facebook searches, the sympathy cards, and the handwritten confession

151
00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:38.360
that prosecutors say proves she murdered seven babies. Welcome back

152
00:10:38.360 --> 00:10:43.039
to celebrity trials. I'm reed Carter. July third, twenty eighteen,

153
00:10:43.639 --> 00:10:46.960
police arrested Lucy let Be at her parents' home in Hereford,

154
00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:49.840
suspicion of eight counts of murder and six counts of

155
00:10:49.840 --> 00:10:54.399
attempted murder. Searching her home, they found something unexpected over

156
00:10:54.440 --> 00:10:58.879
two hundred and fifty confidential nursing handover sheets documents about

157
00:10:58.879 --> 00:11:02.799
the babies, any relating specifically to the babies who collapsed

158
00:11:02.840 --> 00:11:07.039
and died arranged in chronological order. When police asked her

159
00:11:07.080 --> 00:11:09.159
about them, let Be said she brought them home by

160
00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:14.480
accident two hundred and fifty documents organized chronologically about specific

161
00:11:14.519 --> 00:11:19.399
dead babies by accident. Google search history is forever, and

162
00:11:19.440 --> 00:11:22.360
apparently so are nursing handover sheets when you take them

163
00:11:22.399 --> 00:11:25.799
home and file them like trophies. But the handover sheets

164
00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:29.919
were just the beginning. Police found handwritten notes, post it

165
00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:34.759
notes scrawled in Letby's handwriting. One note read I am

166
00:11:34.799 --> 00:11:39.559
evil I did this. Another I killed them on purpose

167
00:11:39.639 --> 00:11:43.960
because I'm not good enough. Prosecution presented these as confessions,

168
00:11:44.360 --> 00:11:48.120
written admissions of guilt, the killer acknowledging her crimes in

169
00:11:48.159 --> 00:11:51.080
her own handwriting. But there were other words on those

170
00:11:51.120 --> 00:11:58.559
same notes. Words the prosecution didn't emphasize slander, discrimination, I

171
00:11:58.600 --> 00:12:03.519
haven't done anything wrong. I feel very alone. Let Be's

172
00:12:03.519 --> 00:12:07.120
defense now argues those notes weren't confessions. They were the

173
00:12:07.240 --> 00:12:10.360
ramblings of a distressed woman who'd been removed from her job,

174
00:12:10.720 --> 00:12:14.159
accused of terrible things, and told by a therapist to

175
00:12:14.200 --> 00:12:17.559
write down her feelings, a woman processing the horror of

176
00:12:17.600 --> 00:12:21.480
being accused, not confessing to it. Her current attorney, Mark

177
00:12:21.559 --> 00:12:25.120
MacDonald says in the Netflix documentary she was told as

178
00:12:25.120 --> 00:12:28.279
a form of therapy to write down her feelings. The

179
00:12:28.320 --> 00:12:32.559
words I am evil, I did this existed alongside words

180
00:12:32.559 --> 00:12:36.720
that suggest she didn't believe she did anything wrong. Make

181
00:12:36.799 --> 00:12:41.240
it make sense because both interpretations are plausible, and that

182
00:12:41.360 --> 00:12:44.919
ambiguity is at the heart of this case. Let Be

183
00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:49.720
was bailed in July twenty eighteen, re arrested June twenty nineteen,

184
00:12:50.200 --> 00:12:54.399
bailed again, Finally arrested for the third time November tenth,

185
00:12:54.559 --> 00:12:59.360
twenty twenty, this time no bail. Charged with eight counts

186
00:12:59.399 --> 00:13:03.320
of murder and ten counts of attempted murder, later adjusted

187
00:13:03.320 --> 00:13:07.519
to seven murders and fifteen attempted murders relating to seventeen babies.

188
00:13:07.919 --> 00:13:10.720
She spent twenty three months in custody before her trial

189
00:13:10.799 --> 00:13:16.639
began October tenth, twenty twenty two, Manchester Crown Court, before

190
00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:20.720
Mister Justice Goss Lucy let Be pleaded not guilty to

191
00:13:20.840 --> 00:13:24.960
all charges. The trial lasted one hundred and forty five days,

192
00:13:25.480 --> 00:13:28.879
one of the longest murder trials in British history. The

193
00:13:28.919 --> 00:13:32.600
babies were referred to as Baby A through Baby Q,

194
00:13:33.399 --> 00:13:37.679
their identities protected by court order no names, just letters

195
00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:43.679
representing tiny lives. Prosecutors alleged Letby's methods varied. She injected

196
00:13:43.720 --> 00:13:47.600
air into blood streams, which can cause fatal air embolisms.

197
00:13:48.080 --> 00:13:52.320
She poisoned babies with insulin, causing dangerous blood sugar drops.

198
00:13:52.799 --> 00:13:57.360
She overfed infants with milk, inflating their stomachs and restricting breathing.

199
00:13:57.879 --> 00:14:01.559
She manipulated breathing tubes, each method designed to look like

200
00:14:01.600 --> 00:14:06.480
a natural complication of premature birth. It was, after all,

201
00:14:06.519 --> 00:14:10.320
one of her favorite ways of killing, Prosecutor Nick Johnson

202
00:14:10.360 --> 00:14:15.240
told the jury, referring to air injection, the prosecution's case

203
00:14:15.279 --> 00:14:19.480
rested on several pillars. First, let Be's presence. She was

204
00:14:19.519 --> 00:14:22.519
on shift for an extraordinary number of collapses and deaths.

205
00:14:23.080 --> 00:14:27.080
A chart showed her presence correlated with virtually every suspicious incident.

206
00:14:27.519 --> 00:14:32.279
When she was removed, the incident stopped. Second, the handwritten

207
00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:38.279
notes I am evil, I did this. Prosecutors called them confessions. Third,

208
00:14:38.960 --> 00:14:43.840
her behavior. After Baby A died in June twenty fifteen,

209
00:14:44.320 --> 00:14:47.159
let Be texted her manager offering to do more shifts.

210
00:14:47.559 --> 00:14:50.200
Said she needed to take an intensive care baby soon.

211
00:14:50.320 --> 00:14:53.799
From a confidence point of view, three days after a

212
00:14:53.840 --> 00:14:56.799
baby died on her watch, she wanted more sick babies.

213
00:14:57.879 --> 00:15:00.120
After Baby E died, let me send a sympath the

214
00:15:00.240 --> 00:15:02.159
card to the parents on the day of the funeral.

215
00:15:02.639 --> 00:15:06.200
Normal maybe, except she photographed the card before sending it

216
00:15:06.679 --> 00:15:10.159
and kept the photos on her phone. Why photograph a

217
00:15:10.200 --> 00:15:13.720
sympathy card unless you're collecting souvenirs. She had to be

218
00:15:13.799 --> 00:15:16.159
told more than once not to enter a room where

219
00:15:16.200 --> 00:15:22.279
grieving parents were mourning their dead child. Intrusive, obsessive, like

220
00:15:22.360 --> 00:15:26.159
she wanted to witness the grief she'd caused. She searched

221
00:15:26.159 --> 00:15:29.159
for the parents of dead babies on Facebook after they died.

222
00:15:30.039 --> 00:15:35.240
Prosecutors called it intrusive curiosity. After the third baby death

223
00:15:35.240 --> 00:15:37.879
in two weeks in twenty fifteen, let be text at

224
00:15:37.919 --> 00:15:41.159
a colleague, I think there is an element of fate involved.

225
00:15:41.559 --> 00:15:46.519
There is a reason for everything. Fate O reason for everything.

226
00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:50.919
Prosecutors said that was let be acknowledging she was the reason.

227
00:15:51.759 --> 00:15:55.440
Fourth the medical evidence. This is where it gets complicated

228
00:15:55.639 --> 00:15:59.279
and where the entire case may fall apart. The prosecutions

229
00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:04.360
lead expert witness was Dewey Evans, retired consultant pediatrician not

230
00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:08.759
currently practicing. He contacted police after reading about the investigation

231
00:16:08.840 --> 00:16:12.799
and offered to help. Reviewed sixty one cases narrowed them

232
00:16:12.840 --> 00:16:16.559
to twenty two Evans concluded let Be had injected air

233
00:16:16.639 --> 00:16:20.240
into baby's blood streams, based partly on skin discoloration he

234
00:16:20.279 --> 00:16:24.080
observed in medical records modeling purple patches on the skin.

235
00:16:24.559 --> 00:16:27.559
He cited a nineteen eighty nine research paper by doctor

236
00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:30.720
Shue Lee from the University of Toronto to support his

237
00:16:30.759 --> 00:16:34.879
theory that this modeling was diagnostic of deliberate air embolism.

238
00:16:35.240 --> 00:16:38.639
But here's the problem. Doctor Shue Lee was never asked

239
00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:43.320
to testify at trial, never consulted, never told his research

240
00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:46.720
was being used to convict someone of murder. When Lee

241
00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:51.000
finally reviewed the case, he was horrified, said his research

242
00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:55.200
was misused. The modeling described by Evans wasn't the same

243
00:16:55.240 --> 00:16:59.639
phenomenon he'd written about. His paper dealt with air embolisms

244
00:16:59.679 --> 00:17:05.599
caused by high pressure ventilation equipment, not deliberate injection. February

245
00:17:05.599 --> 00:17:09.480
twenty twenty five, Lee chaired an international panel of fourteen

246
00:17:09.519 --> 00:17:14.119
clinicians who examined the medical evidence. Their conclusion in all

247
00:17:14.200 --> 00:17:18.160
cases death or injury were due to natural causes or

248
00:17:18.279 --> 00:17:23.160
just bad medical care. No murders, no deliberate harm, just

249
00:17:23.200 --> 00:17:27.839
a failing hospital with inadequate staffing killing babies through incompetence

250
00:17:28.519 --> 00:17:30.880
and a nurse who happened to be present because she

251
00:17:31.000 --> 00:17:35.400
worked the most shifts. The defense at trial argued exactly this.

252
00:17:35.960 --> 00:17:39.319
Ben Myers, defending let Be, told the jury his client

253
00:17:39.400 --> 00:17:42.759
denied everything. Said the deaths could be explained by the

254
00:17:42.799 --> 00:17:48.400
hospital's well documented staffing shortages, high giene issues, and inadequate care. Said,

255
00:17:48.440 --> 00:17:52.039
correlation isn't causation. Just because let Be was present doesn't

256
00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:55.119
mean she killed anyone, But the jury didn't buy it.

257
00:17:55.480 --> 00:17:59.640
August eighteenth, twenty twenty three, after deliberating for more than

258
00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:04.119
seven six hours, the jury returned their verdicts. Guilty of

259
00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:08.279
murdering seven babies, guilty of attempting to murder six others,

260
00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:13.079
not guilty on two counts, hung on six more. Lucy

261
00:18:13.160 --> 00:18:16.920
Letb showed no visible reaction. She had refused to attend

262
00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:20.480
court for the verdicts, watched via video link from her cell.

263
00:18:21.079 --> 00:18:24.039
Mister Justice Gass sentenced her to life imprisonment with a

264
00:18:24.039 --> 00:18:28.240
whole life order for each count, fifteen life sentences. She

265
00:18:28.279 --> 00:18:32.759
would never be released. July twenty twenty four, a retrial

266
00:18:32.839 --> 00:18:36.400
on one of the hung counts, Baby K another conviction,

267
00:18:36.920 --> 00:18:41.319
another whole life sentence, fifteen total Lucy let Be was

268
00:18:41.319 --> 00:18:44.440
officially Britain's most prolific child killer of the modern era.

269
00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:49.440
But was she coming up the case against the case?

270
00:18:50.039 --> 00:18:53.880
Why fourteen international medical experts say there's no evidence Lucy

271
00:18:53.960 --> 00:18:57.599
let Be killed anyone, Why her defense team submitted thirty

272
00:18:57.599 --> 00:19:01.880
one expert reports seeking a retrial, and why Netflix's documentary

273
00:19:01.960 --> 00:19:04.559
might be the most important true crime film ever made

274
00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:22.799
or the most irresponsible. Welcome back to celebrity trials, I'm read, Carter.

275
00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:26.920
Here's where this case gets uncomfortable. Because either Lucy let

276
00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:30.119
Be murdered seven babies and tried to murder seven more,

277
00:19:30.759 --> 00:19:34.079
or the British criminal justice system convicted an innocent woman

278
00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:37.920
based on flawed medical evidence, confirmation bias, and a post

279
00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:41.079
it note taken out of context. There is no middle ground.

280
00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:43.799
One of those things is true. Let's lay out the

281
00:19:43.799 --> 00:19:47.720
case for doubt the medical evidence. Doctor Shue Lee, the

282
00:19:47.759 --> 00:19:51.759
Canadian neonatologist whose nineteen eighty nine research paper was the

283
00:19:51.799 --> 00:19:56.039
cornerstone of the prosecution's air embolism theory, says his work

284
00:19:56.200 --> 00:20:00.319
was misused. Says the skin discoloration the prosecution point to

285
00:20:00.400 --> 00:20:03.720
as proof of deliberate air injection wasn't the same thing

286
00:20:03.759 --> 00:20:06.799
he wrote about, says the baby's deaths can be explained

287
00:20:06.839 --> 00:20:12.000
by natural causes or substandard care. In February twenty twenty five,

288
00:20:12.440 --> 00:20:17.079
Lee assembled a panel of fourteen international clinicians. They reviewed

289
00:20:17.160 --> 00:20:21.240
all the medical evidence from the case. Their conclusion was devastating.

290
00:20:21.559 --> 00:20:25.799
They did not find any murders. Every single death, they said,

291
00:20:25.839 --> 00:20:29.920
could be attributed to natural complications of prematurity, or to

292
00:20:29.960 --> 00:20:33.119
the well documented failures of the Countess of Chester Hospital

293
00:20:33.839 --> 00:20:39.480
inadequate staffing, delays in treatment, hygiene problems, a unit that

294
00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:45.160
was described by multiple reviews as understaffed and overwhelmed. The

295
00:20:45.240 --> 00:20:49.400
prosecution's expert, witness Dewey Evans, was criticized by the Court

296
00:20:49.400 --> 00:20:52.920
of Appeal for making no effort to provide a balanced opinion.

297
00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:58.519
Evans was retired not currently practicing. He volunteered to help police,

298
00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:03.000
essentially appoint himself the case expert, and his conclusions are

299
00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:07.440
now being challenged by active practicing neonatologists from around the world.

300
00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:12.039
The insolent evidence two babies showed abnormal blood test results

301
00:21:12.039 --> 00:21:15.920
that prosecutors said proved insulin poisoning, but medical experts have

302
00:21:15.960 --> 00:21:19.319
since argued those results could be explained by contamination or

303
00:21:19.400 --> 00:21:22.160
by the way the tests were conducted, not proof of

304
00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:26.480
deliberate harm. The shift correlation chart. Prosecutors showed the jury

305
00:21:26.559 --> 00:21:29.920
a dramatic chart linking let Be to every suspicious incident,

306
00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:34.240
but critics say correlation isn't causation. Let Be worked more

307
00:21:34.279 --> 00:21:38.440
shifts than any other nurse. She volunteered for overtime, she

308
00:21:38.599 --> 00:21:42.759
covered for staffing shortages. Of course, her name appeared more frequently.

309
00:21:43.319 --> 00:21:45.799
If you work twice as many shifts, you're present for

310
00:21:45.880 --> 00:21:50.519
twice as many incidents. That's math, not murder. There's also

311
00:21:50.559 --> 00:21:53.599
the question of what the jury didn't hear. The defense

312
00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:57.359
at trial didn't call doctor Shu Lee, didn't present the

313
00:21:57.440 --> 00:22:02.519
expert testimony that's now emerging, didn't effectively challenge the prosecution's

314
00:22:02.559 --> 00:22:06.680
medical evidence. Some argue the defense was inadequate, that let

315
00:22:06.680 --> 00:22:09.640
Be didn't receive a fair trial because her attorneys failed

316
00:22:09.640 --> 00:22:13.359
to present the strongest case for her innocence. The handwritten

317
00:22:13.400 --> 00:22:18.759
notes I am evil I did this powerful evidence, but

318
00:22:18.839 --> 00:22:22.400
also potentially the scrawlings of a woman in psychological crisis,

319
00:22:22.759 --> 00:22:26.640
removed from her job, accused of the worst crimes imaginable,

320
00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:30.039
told by a therapist to write down her feelings. The

321
00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:33.759
same notes also say I haven't done anything wrong and

322
00:22:33.920 --> 00:22:40.039
reference slander and discrimination. If these were genuine confessions, why

323
00:22:40.079 --> 00:22:44.559
would they also contain denials the hospital cover up. This

324
00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:48.640
is what really raises questions. The Countess of Chester Hospital's

325
00:22:48.680 --> 00:22:55.119
management actively resisted investigating the deaths, dismissed doctor's concerns, forced

326
00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:59.400
whistleblowers to apologize to the suspect, upheld let Be's grievance

327
00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:03.640
against the doctors who raised alarms, apologized to Letby's parents,

328
00:23:04.000 --> 00:23:07.240
tried to bring her back to the unit. Why Because

329
00:23:07.240 --> 00:23:09.599
if the deaths were caused by let Be, it's a

330
00:23:09.599 --> 00:23:12.960
criminal matter. But if they were caused by systemic failures

331
00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:18.279
at the hospital, understaffing, poor hygiene, inadequate training, then management

332
00:23:18.359 --> 00:23:23.039
is responsible. Senior executives are liable. The institution is at fault.

333
00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:27.079
June twenty twenty five, three former senior staff members at

334
00:23:27.119 --> 00:23:29.960
the Countess of Chester Hospital were arrested on suspicion of

335
00:23:30.039 --> 00:23:34.559
gross negligence manslaughter. The hospital itself is under investigation for

336
00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:39.519
corporate manslaughter. That's significant. If hospital management was so negligent

337
00:23:39.559 --> 00:23:42.599
that it constituted manslaughter, then the deaths might not have

338
00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:45.119
been caused by a killer nurse at all. They might

339
00:23:45.160 --> 00:23:48.079
have been caused by a broken system, and Lucy Letby

340
00:23:48.200 --> 00:23:52.559
might be the scapegoat. January twenty twenty six, the Crown

341
00:23:52.640 --> 00:23:55.640
Prosecution Service announced it would not charge let Be with

342
00:23:55.680 --> 00:24:00.000
any further crimes. Police had submitted evidence about nine additional bits,

343
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:04.440
as the CPS reviewed it and said no, not enough evidence.

344
00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:07.640
If let Be was truly a serial killer on a rampage,

345
00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:10.960
wouldn't there be evidence of more victims? Or does the

346
00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:14.759
CPS decision suggest the original evidence wasn't as strong as

347
00:24:14.799 --> 00:24:20.319
prosecutors claimed. The Netflix documentary The Investigation of Lucy Letb

348
00:24:20.519 --> 00:24:25.160
was produced by ITN Productions. Ninety minutes, premiered February fourth,

349
00:24:25.559 --> 00:24:28.000
features never before seen footage of let Bey's arrest at

350
00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:31.559
her parents' home, her police interviews, a mother of one

351
00:24:31.680 --> 00:24:35.279
victim speaking publicly for the first time, detectives who built

352
00:24:35.279 --> 00:24:39.480
the case, lawyers from both sides, medical experts who challenged

353
00:24:39.480 --> 00:24:44.720
the evidence. The documentary uses artificial intelligence to digitally anonymize

354
00:24:44.720 --> 00:24:49.799
some interviewees, creating AI generated faces that blink, cry, and

355
00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:55.599
move but aren't the real people. Viewers have called it unsettling, disturbing,

356
00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:01.160
and grotesque. One wrote the manipulated photos and computer generated

357
00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:05.799
images felt particularly grotesque. This was an abysmal judgment call

358
00:25:05.880 --> 00:25:10.559
by the producers. Let Be's parents condemned the documentary as

359
00:25:10.599 --> 00:25:14.440
a complete invasion of privacy, said they had no idea

360
00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:17.240
footage from inside their home would be given to Netflix,

361
00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:21.960
said watching it would likely kill us. Reviews are polarized.

362
00:25:22.359 --> 00:25:26.640
The Guardian called it sensationalist. Others say it's the most

363
00:25:26.680 --> 00:25:30.640
balanced examination of a case that desperately needs re examination.

364
00:25:31.400 --> 00:25:35.000
The truth is probably somewhere in between. But here's what

365
00:25:35.039 --> 00:25:38.640
the documentary does that matters. It gives airtime to doubt.

366
00:25:39.079 --> 00:25:42.119
It lets medical experts explain why the evidence might not

367
00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:45.799
support murder convictions. It lets let Be's current lawyer argue

368
00:25:45.799 --> 00:25:48.759
her case. It shows a hospital consultant who worked on

369
00:25:48.799 --> 00:25:51.720
the ward admitting to a tiny, tiny, tiny sense of

370
00:25:51.759 --> 00:25:55.119
guilt and wondering aloud, did we get the wrong person?

371
00:25:55.920 --> 00:25:59.279
That question is now echoing across Britain. Did they get

372
00:25:59.319 --> 00:26:03.640
the wrong person? The Criminal Cases Review Commission is considering

373
00:26:03.720 --> 00:26:07.880
Letby's application. Her defense has submitted thirty one expert reports

374
00:26:08.000 --> 00:26:12.759
from twenty six international specialists. The Thoroughwall Inquiry report expected

375
00:26:12.759 --> 00:26:16.599
to examine the hospital's failures has been delayed until after Easter.

376
00:26:16.720 --> 00:26:20.839
Twenty twenty six. Inquests into five of the baby deaths

377
00:26:20.839 --> 00:26:25.039
were opened and adjourned in February. Coroners will examine whether

378
00:26:25.079 --> 00:26:27.920
the causes of death should be changed from natural or

379
00:26:28.039 --> 00:26:32.640
unknown to unlawful killing. Everything is still in motion, nothing

380
00:26:32.680 --> 00:26:39.160
is settled. And then there are the families, Because in

381
00:26:39.200 --> 00:26:43.279
every debate about evidence and experts and wrongful convictions, there

382
00:26:43.279 --> 00:26:46.759
are parents who buried their babies. They sat through one

383
00:26:46.839 --> 00:26:51.119
hundred and forty five days of trial testimony, heard prosecutors

384
00:26:51.160 --> 00:26:56.039
describe how their children were murdered, saw photographs, heard medical evidence,

385
00:26:56.559 --> 00:27:00.000
watched a jury convict the woman they believe killed their children.

386
00:27:00.599 --> 00:27:03.240
The parents of Babies E and F issued a statement

387
00:27:03.319 --> 00:27:07.640
responding to the growing doubt misinformation is being circulated about

388
00:27:07.640 --> 00:27:11.759
what transpired in court. Having attended the trial ourselves, we

389
00:27:11.839 --> 00:27:15.519
are fully aware of what was said. They believe let

390
00:27:15.519 --> 00:27:20.480
be is guilty. They believe justice was served. And every

391
00:27:20.480 --> 00:27:24.599
time an expert questions the conviction, every time a documentary

392
00:27:24.680 --> 00:27:28.640
raises doubt, every time someone on social media calls let

393
00:27:28.680 --> 00:27:31.640
be innocent, these parents relive the worst moments of their

394
00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:36.519
lives One mother speaks in the Netflix documentary digitally anonymized

395
00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:40.400
a eye generated face, but the pain in her voice

396
00:27:40.440 --> 00:27:44.480
is real. She describes what happened to her child, describes

397
00:27:44.559 --> 00:27:47.119
sitting through the trial, describes what it's like to hear

398
00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:49.839
people say the woman convicted of killing her baby might

399
00:27:49.880 --> 00:27:53.559
be innocent. That's the cruelest part of wrongful conviction debates.

400
00:27:54.119 --> 00:27:56.960
If let be is guilty, the doubters are torturing grieving

401
00:27:57.039 --> 00:28:00.880
parents by questioning a just verdict if let bebe is innocent.

402
00:28:01.160 --> 00:28:05.559
The prosecution traumatized these families twice, first by failing to

403
00:28:05.559 --> 00:28:10.279
prevent their baby's deaths through institutional negligence, then by convincing

404
00:28:10.319 --> 00:28:13.839
them a nurse murdered their children when she didn't. Either way,

405
00:28:13.960 --> 00:28:18.079
the family suffer. Either way, the system failed them. Here's

406
00:28:18.119 --> 00:28:21.279
what we know. For certain babies died at the Countess

407
00:28:21.279 --> 00:28:25.480
of Chester Hospital, more babies than should have. Something went

408
00:28:25.640 --> 00:28:29.599
catastrophically wrong. Whether that something was Lucy let Be, or

409
00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:33.839
the institution itself or some combination is the question that

410
00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:38.640
may define British criminal justice for a generation. Two juries

411
00:28:38.640 --> 00:28:42.000
found her guilty. The Court of Appeal rejected her appeals twice,

412
00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:46.079
but the medical evidence is crumbling. International experts are lining

413
00:28:46.160 --> 00:28:49.440
up to say the prosecution got it wrong. The CCRC

414
00:28:49.680 --> 00:28:53.720
is reviewing the case, the hospital is under investigation for manslaughter,

415
00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:57.799
and Lucy letb sits in HMP low Newton High Security

416
00:28:57.799 --> 00:29:00.920
Women's Prison in Durham, working as the U unit librarian.

417
00:29:01.319 --> 00:29:05.640
Model prisoner, keeps her cell neat binge, watches shows on weekends,

418
00:29:06.000 --> 00:29:09.839
best friends with another infamous inmate, Baynash Battoul, convicted of

419
00:29:09.920 --> 00:29:14.720
murdering her stepdaughter, Sara Sharif. She maintains her innocence, has

420
00:29:14.799 --> 00:29:18.039
maintained it since the beginning. Says she didn't kill anyone.

421
00:29:18.559 --> 00:29:22.119
Says the notes weren't confessions. Says the deaths were natural.

422
00:29:22.759 --> 00:29:26.680
Fifteen whole life orders. She will die in that prison

423
00:29:27.039 --> 00:29:30.279
unless the CCRC refers her case back to the Court

424
00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:35.000
of Appeal, unless new evidence emerges, unless the system that

425
00:29:35.119 --> 00:29:38.599
convicted her acknowledges it may have made a terrible mistake

426
00:29:43.079 --> 00:29:46.720
that celebrity trials for Tuesday, February tenth, twenty twenty six,

427
00:29:47.480 --> 00:29:51.480
Lucy Letbe convicted of murdering seven babies and attempting to

428
00:29:51.559 --> 00:29:54.880
murder seven more at the Countess of Chester Hospital between

429
00:29:55.000 --> 00:29:59.960
June twenty fifteen and June twenty sixteen sentenced to fifteen

430
00:30:00.359 --> 00:30:04.279
whole life orders, the harshest sentence in British law. The

431
00:30:04.319 --> 00:30:08.839
prosecution says she injected air into bloodstreams poisoned with insulin

432
00:30:09.160 --> 00:30:11.880
and wrote I am evil. I did this on a

433
00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:15.079
post it note. The defense says the babies died from

434
00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:18.519
natural causes at a failing hospital and a traumatized nurse

435
00:30:18.599 --> 00:30:24.160
was scapegoaded for institutional failures. Netflix's documentary The Investigation of

436
00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:28.759
Lucy let Be has reignited the debate. International experts say

437
00:30:28.759 --> 00:30:33.359
the medical evidence doesn't support murder. The CCRC is reviewing

438
00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:36.920
the case. The Thirlwall inquiry report is due after Easter.

439
00:30:37.359 --> 00:30:41.880
Three former hospital executives have been arrested for gross negligence manslaughter.

440
00:30:42.359 --> 00:30:46.519
This case isn't over, not by a long shot. Here's

441
00:30:46.559 --> 00:30:48.359
what I'll say. I don't know if Lucy let Be

442
00:30:48.519 --> 00:30:51.559
is guilty. I don't know if she's innocent. Nobody outside

443
00:30:51.599 --> 00:30:54.559
that neonatal unit knows for certain what happened to those babies.

444
00:30:54.839 --> 00:30:58.400
Two juries heard the evidence and convicted her. That matters.

445
00:30:59.000 --> 00:31:02.880
Juries don't convict lightly, But medical experts from around the

446
00:31:02.920 --> 00:31:07.079
world are now saying the evidence was flawed. That matters too.

447
00:31:07.519 --> 00:31:11.319
What I do know is this, babies died, whether they

448
00:31:11.359 --> 00:31:14.160
were murdered or failed by a broken health care system.

449
00:31:14.599 --> 00:31:19.680
They deserved better, Their families deserved better. The truth deserves

450
00:31:19.720 --> 00:31:22.799
to come out, whatever that truth is. If let Be

451
00:31:22.920 --> 00:31:26.119
did this, she's exactly where she belongs. If she didn't,

452
00:31:26.400 --> 00:31:29.240
she's been in prison for years for crimes that never happened,

453
00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:32.920
and the people actually responsible for those babies' deaths have

454
00:31:33.079 --> 00:31:36.640
never been held accountable. Either way, someone failed those children.

455
00:31:36.799 --> 00:31:39.359
Make it make sense. I'm read, Carter. We'll be back

456
00:31:39.359 --> 00:31:42.440
tomorrow with your regular court coverage. This is celebrity trials.