The Clancy Holdout Juror Is Named, Doxxed and in Hiding, and His Account Contradicts the Foreperson's, Plus Patrick Clancy on 60 Minutes

0:03 Calaroga Shark Media. Good morning. This is Daily Crime and Justice from Calaroga Media, powered by AI. I'm Garrett Fisher. It's Monday, September 21st, 2026. On the 3rd of September, on this show, I said the following about the one juror who would not vote to acquit Lindsay Clancy. That he had not spoken publicly. That his name was under seal. That no court had found he did anything improper. And that if holding out means the country learns your description and a famous lawyer tells you to lose sleep, then the next holdout folds and the unanimity requirement becomes decorative.

0:45 Every part of that has now come apart, and faster than I expected. He has a name. He has been doxxed. He has received death threats. He has left his home and is living somewhere in rural New England that his attorney will not identify. There is more than $ 300, 000 in a fundraiser attached to him, and he has given his first account of what happened inside that jury room, which directly contradicts what three of his fellow jurors told television reporters. Also last night, Patrick Clancy sat down with 60 Minutes for the first interview he has given since the mistrial, alongside his wife. And in Ohio, a former American Idol contestant is on trial for murdering his wife. and prosecutors opened by reading the jury two text messages. Let's get into it. The man in the rural Northeast, his name is Michael Peggy Desronville. I've gone back and forth on whether to say it, and I've decided that at this point, declining to would be theater. He has given a statement through a spokesperson to a national network. He has retained counsel who is issuing press releases about him. His name has been on Fox News and News Nation and The Hill.

1:58 The seal is gone and pretending otherwise helps nobody. Here is where he is. According to his attorney, Edward Palczyk, he is in a safe, undisclosed location in a rural part of northern New England. He left his home in Massachusetts. His address and his phone number were published online. He has received death threats. Palczyk is a defamation and media law attorney whose prior clients have included the President of the United States. He has called Desronville an American hero and a champion of justice, said the evil people who attacked his client will be held accountable to the maximum extent of the law and beyond, and described him as unbroken thanks to his devout Catholic faith. Now, that is advocacy, and it is laying on thick. But strip the adjectives away and ask yourself what the underlying facts are. A man was summoned for jury duty. He served for six weeks.

2:52 He deliberated for more than 38 hours. He voted his conscience. And he is now living in an undisclosed location with a lawyer because people found out where he lived. There is no version of that which is acceptable. Here is what he says happened in that room and it is the first time we have heard from him. In a statement to News Nation, Desrenville said he did not have any doubts. He said that as he tried to explain different possible theories during deliberation, he kept getting cut off as if he had doubts based on the evidence. And he said that based on the physical evidence, the key witnesses, and what the prosecution presented, he thought it was enough proof that Lindsay Clancy knew exactly what she was doing and planned it. That is a flat contradiction of the foreperson, and it matters enormously. because the four-person's characterization is the entire basis on which this man was nearly thrown off a jury. Ronnie Carlson told NBC Boston that Deserenville admitted he had reasonable doubt, and that is the basis on which she sent Judge Sullivan a note saying he would not follow the law. It is also the basis on which Kevin Reddington stood up in open court and demanded he be removed, and accused him of lying under oath.

4:06 Deserenville says that is not what happened. He says he never had doubts at all. And in a longer conversation with a YouTube host named Ray Marcel, he apparently gave more detail. Marcel says Desronville told him the room was never 11 to 1 at the start, that it began around 8 to 4 for acquittal, with two undecided and one other juror who believed Clancy was guilty, that the other juror stayed with him until the very end and then, in Marcel's words, caved. Marcel also described something that happened during those deliberations that I cannot stop thinking about. He said Desronville tied a string around a water bottle to demonstrate to the other jurors the force involved and told them to imagine the bottle as the children's necks. I want to be careful with all of that because it is a YouTube host's account of a phone call that was not recorded and not published. It is one man's recollection, relayed by a second man, about a conversation the rest of us cannot check. treated accordingly. But the first statement, the one to News Nation, is confirmed by his own attorney.

5:12 And it means two people who sat in the same room have now given directly opposing accounts of the same conversation under their own names to reporters. Which is precisely why the law does not let anybody go behind a verdict and sort it out. We covered that rule at length last week. Deliberations are secret because memory is unreliable, because people are wounded, and because four months later, everyone is the hero of their own version. Now the hard part, and I want to be straightforward about how we are handling it. After Destrinville was identified, NBC Boston published material from his personal legal history, including an arrest in 2021 and a restraining order matter in 2025. Neither resulted in a prosecution. He was not charged and he was not convicted in either one. We are not going to detail those allegations on this show. He is a private citizen who was ordered to appear for jury service. The allegations are unproven. And the reason they are in the news is not that anybody cared about them a month ago.

6:13 There is, however, one genuinely legal question inside all of it. And it is worth explaining. Prospective jurors in Massachusetts are required to disclose prior arrests and charges on a juror questionnaire. If a juror conceals something material to get onto a panel, that is a real problem with a real name. Lawyers call it a stealth juror, and courts have removed people for it. In extreme cases, there can be criminal exposure for lying under oath. Desronville, through Marcel, says he did not lie. He says he checked the box he was supposed to check, and he was seated anyway. And here is the thing, if that is true, then the failure was not his. Voir dire exists to catch exactly this.

6:57 Both sets of lawyers had that questionnaire. Both sides had the opportunity to question him. Both sides had peremptory challenges. If a disclosed arrest did not disqualify a juror in a triple murder trial, that is a decision somebody made in July, when both sides wanted him on that panel. Nobody complained about Michael Desronville until he voted the wrong way. And I want to say the other part of this plainly, because he has said it himself, and it is going to get argued about all week, regardless of whether I mention it. Through Marcel, Desronville has indicated he believes some of the treatment he received has to do with his being a black man who is politically conservative. His lawyer's public statements lean heavily into his faith and his politics.

7:41 I cannot tell you what was in anybody's heart in that jury room, and neither can anyone else who was not in it. What I can tell you is what is observable from outside. Eleven people went home. One person's arrest record got pulled, published, and passed around. One person's address ended up online. Whatever explains that, it was not a neutral process, and it did not happen to the other eleven. Two more things and I will leave it. The fundraiser situation is genuinely messy. On Thursday, Peltzik posted publicly warning that GiveSendGo and GoFundMe pages claiming to support his client were unauthorized and told people not to donate.

8:22 Then he verified the legitimacy of one of them. That page has now passed $ 300, 000 for security, lawyers, and lost work. I am not going to tell anybody what to do with their money. But if you are giving to a stranger on the internet on behalf of a man you have never met, in a case where the lawyer himself has said some of these pages are scams, do the small amount of homework first. And the language on that fundraiser page is worth hearing. The organizer wrote that Desronville looked at what she did, not the brand of Zoloft, and that Clancy could now be tried again instead of getting a standing ovation for her symptoms. A standing ovation for her symptoms. Six psychiatric experts testified in that trial.

9:08 Every single one of them, for the defense and for the Commonwealth, agreed Lindsay Clancy was suffering from a serious mental disease. That was never in dispute. The dispute was whether that illness took away her ability to know right from wrong or to stop herself. You can believe, as Michael Desrenville does, that the Commonwealth proved she could stop herself. That is a completely defensible position, and 11 people disagreed with him, not the universe. But reducing a woman's documented psychiatric collapse to the brand of Zoloft in a fundraising pitch tells you what a meaningful chunk of this conversation is actually about. And it is not the evidence. Cora Clancy was five. Dawson Clancy was three. Callan Clancy was eight months old. The next hearing is September 29th, eight days from now, when Plymouth County is expected to say whether it is retrying this case. Someone has to say their names. When we come back, Patrick Clancy speaks. Last night, 60 Minutes aired an interview with Patrick Clancy and his wife, Dr.

10:23 Rachel Dannis. It is the first interview he has given since his ex-wife's murder trial ended in a mistrial. I want to set the table for anybody who has come to this late. On January 24th, 2023, Patrick Clancy went out to pick up takeout and a prescription for his five-year-old daughter. He was gone about 25 minutes. He came home to find his wife outside in the snow and his three children dead in the basement. He was the first witness the Commonwealth called at her trial. And on that stand, he spoke up for her. He has consistently said she was a good mother who became ill. He filed for divorce in February of 2024, moved to New York, and remarried this April. And for months, a substantial number of people on the internet have accused him of killing his own children. In a promotional clip released before the broadcast, correspondent Ross Douthat asked him what he says to his children.

11:17 Patrick Clancy said, help me, all the time. His wife said something in that interview that I think deserves to be quoted properly because she has been a target too. She said she does not understand how the story got so twisted, that she was just a girl who met a guy running in Central Park on a really cold Saturday, and that she does not think there is anything wrong with that. She is a fertility doctor. She met a man out running. That is the entire scandal. Two weeks ago, his attorney, Howard Cooper, put out a statement describing a relentless, escalating, and destructive defamation campaign run by minor celebrities, influencers, and conspiracy theorists who he said are boosting their own profiles and profit by publishing what they know to be falsehoods.

12:05 He said it has produced real-life threats to his client's reputation, livelihood, and life. He said enough is enough and that law enforcement has been notified. So now hold those two segments next to each other. Patrick Clancy, accused by strangers of murdering his own children, hires a defamation lawyer. Michael Desrenville, doxed and threatened for how he voted, hires a defamation lawyer. They are on opposite sides of this case. One of them believes Lindsay Clancy was sick. The other believes she knew exactly what she was doing. And they have both ended up in the same place, which is on the phone with an attorney because the internet came for them. That is not a coincidence and it is not about this case. That is just what happens now to anybody who gets close to a story this size. And notice the tell. Both men have now retained lawyers who specialize in defamation and media law. Not criminal lawyers, not appellate lawyers.

13:02 The threat to each of them is not from the court system. It is from the coverage. Including, I will note again, from shows like this one. There is also a real legal development from last week, and it matters ahead of the 29th. Lindsay Clancy has reportedly hired one of the attorneys who worked on Karen Reed's defense as part of an effort to have her case dismissed outright rather than retried. That tells you the shape of what is coming. The defense is not preparing to run this trial again. They are going to argue it should never be run again at all, and they have brought in somebody who has been through the most scrutinized double trial in recent Massachusetts history. Reed, for what it is worth, was retried after her first jury hung and she was acquitted.

13:47 District Attorney Timothy Cruz has still not said what he intends to do. Eight days. When we come back, 100,000 text messages and two of them. Ashley Flynn was 37 years old. She was a mother of two young daughters. On the morning of February 16th of this year, she was found dead in the master bedroom of her home in Tip City, Ohio, north of Dayton. She had been shot in the head. Her daughters were asleep in rooms nearby.

14:28 Her husband called 911 and reported a break-in. He told the dispatcher that somebody had broken into his home and shot his wife, that she had two shots to her head, and that there was blood everywhere. Caleb Flynn is 40. He appeared on the 12th season of American Idol in 2013. He has been charged with aggravated murder, murder, felonious assault, and tampering with evidence. Prosecutors allege he used a 9mm handgun and then staged the scene to look like a burglary. He has pleaded not guilty to all of it and he is presumed innocent. His trial opened Friday in Miami County and the state's opening statement was built on a phone.

15:10 Prosecutor Paul Watkins told the jury that Flynn had been carrying on a years-long affair and that investigators recovered more than 100,000 messages between him and the woman. 100,000. And out of all of them, Watkins read the jury too. In the first, according to the prosecutor, Flynn wrote that if he could literally kill her and not go to hell, he would do it in a heartbeat. And that is how dark and hateful he felt. In the second sent months later, he wrote that he had been up until four in the morning crying, literally crying, thinking of ways to kill her and not go to jail. Watkins told the jury those were Caleb Flynn's own words to his mistress months apart. The defense did not dispute the affair.

15:55 Attorney Emily Smith told the jury the evidence will show Flynn said hurtful, selfish things about his wife to appease his mistress and that the same messages show him making plans about a divorce throughout the relationship. That is a real argument, and I want to give it its weight. People say monstrous things in private to people they are trying to impress. If every ugly text ever sent about a spouse were treated as a murder plan, the jails would be a great deal fuller than they are. And the defense's core position is that the state has a theory rather than proof. The state's answer is that this is not a stray remark. It is two specific messages, sent months apart, about methods and consequences. Not, I wish she were gone. Thinking of ways to kill her and not go to jail. At one point Friday, prosecutors played Flynn's 911 call in the courtroom and he broke down in tears. Look, I'm going to say something about that because it is going to be the thing people talk about.

16:54 A defendant crying at his own 911 call proves nothing in either direction. Innocent people cry. Guilty people cry. People cry because they are hearing the worst moment of their life played back at volume in a room full of strangers, regardless of what they did in it. Juries watch it and read meaning into it, and that is human. And it is also the least reliable evidence in the room. What matters is the messages, the forensics, and whether the state can prove the scene was staged. And that last one is where this case will actually be decided. Staging is a specific forensic claim. It means investigators found the physical evidence inconsistent with the story told. An open garage door with nothing taken. Entry points that do not work.

17:43 Blood patterns that do not match the account. Prosecutors have alleged he staged it, which means they intend to prove it. Which means there will be witnesses who walk a jury through exactly why they did not believe what they were looking at. Two ugly text messages get the headlines. The scene is what convicts or acquits. Ashley Flynn was 37. She has two daughters who were asleep down the hall and who are now being raised by somebody else while their father stands trial. Someone has to say her name. That's the show for Monday, September 21st. If you're on Apple, look at the top of your screen for the button that says listen uninterrupted. $ 5 a month, no advertising, and it covers thousands of shows across Calaroga media. 30 days free if you want to try it first. To everybody who already subscribes, thank you. You keep this thing on the air. And on Spotify, drop a comment on the juror.

18:43 He was summoned, he served six weeks, he voted his conscience, and he is now in hiding with a lawyer. Whatever you think of his vote, what does that do to the next person who gets that summons in the mail? This week, Matthew Exton is sentenced in Toledo today and faces up to 25 years, and we will have it tomorrow. The Kosowski bench trial continues in Largo. And a week from tomorrow, September 29th, Lindsay Clancy is back in front of Judge Sullivan when Plymouth County is finally expected to say whether it is doing all of this again. I'm Garrett Fisher. Do better. A few notes on sourcing. on the juror. Michael Peggy Desronville was identified publicly by news organizations, not by the court, and his statement to NewsNation was provided through a spokesperson and confirmed by his attorney. The longer account of what occurred during deliberations comes from a YouTube host describing an unrecorded phone call, and we have labeled it as such. Jurors' recollections of deliberations conflict with one another, and none of them has been tested. No court has found that Desrenville did anything improper. Judge Sullivan expressly declined to find that he refused to follow the law.

20:02 Material published about his personal legal history involves matters in which he was not prosecuted and not convicted, and we have not detailed them. On the questionnaire question, whether a prospective juror properly disclosed prior arrests is a legitimate legal issue, but no court has made any finding about it, and no charge has been brought against anyone. Our description of what happens when a juror conceals information reflects general law, not any determination in this case. On Patrick Clancy, The claim that he had any involvement in his children's deaths was never raised at trial by either side, and Lindsey Clancy admitted through counsel that she killed them. His attorney's statement threatened potential legal action. No lawsuit has been filed as of recording. Reporting that Lindsey Clancy has retained an attorney connected to the Karen Reed defense comes from news accounts and has not been confirmed by the court. On the Ohio case... Caleb Flynn has pleaded not guilty to all charges and is presumed innocent. The messages described were read to the jury by the prosecution during opening statements.

21:08 Opening statements are not evidence, and the defense disputes the state's interpretation of them. The trial is ongoing. This episode discusses the killing of children, domestic homicide, and severe mental illness. If you are struggling, you can call or text 988 in the United States to reach the suicide and crisis lifeline.