LIVER INSTEAD OF SPLEEN: FL SURGEON CHARGED, SIGN'S 'SUICIDE' UNRAVELS, KAREN READ HIT WITH LAWSUIT

0:03 Kalaroga Shark Media. Good morning, I'm Garrett Fisher. It's Tuesday, April twenty first, twenty twenty six. This is Daily Crime and Justice. Three stories today and a theme running through all of them. The official version isn't holding. A surgeon in the Florida Panhandle reaches into a patient's abdomen for what was supposed to be a routine spleen removal and comes out with, according to the indictment, the liver, not the spleen, the liver, which is on the other side of the body, which is about four times larger than the spleen, which has so many vessel connections that, to quote the attorney now representing the family, you can't accidentally take out somebody's liver. You have to actively dissect it loose that patient, a seventy year old Navy veteran named William Bryan, bled to death on the operating table. His widow, Beverly, was told he died from a ruptured spleen. She only learned the truth from the autopsy. Last week, a Walton County grand jury indicted doctor Thomas Shaknovsky on second degree manslaughter.

1:11 He's out on seventy five thousand dollars. Bond and the lawyer for Brian's family says, this isn't the first time Shaknovsky has taken out the wrong organ. Second story, and this one you have to hold carefully because there's a lot of noise around it. Christopher Sign. If that name doesn't ring a bell, it should. Back in twenty sixteen, Sign was an anchor in Phoenix when he broke what was at that moment one of the biggest political stories of the election, Bill Clinton, walking across a tarmac and having a private meeting with Attorney General Loretta Lynch at the exact moment her Justice Department was investigating Hillary Clinton's emails.

1:52 Sign told everyone, his wife, his friends, his colleagues, the readers of his twenty twenty book, that he had received death threats, that he was teaching his three young sons secret code words, and that if anything ever happened to him, he was not suicidal. On June twelfth, twenty twenty one, he was found hanged in his home office. The death was ruled a suicide within hours, no full autopsy. His body was cremated within forty eight hours without his family being consulted. Nearly five years later, his mother hasn't seen her grandchildren. His brother is furious, and his older sister says the widow called her in twenty twenty three saying, quote, this was a terrible, terrible mistake un quote. We're going to walk through this one carefully, and finally, Karen Reid.

2:44 Two criminal trials, one hung jury, one acquittal, and apparently the legal phase of this case is nowhere near. Over four of the people who testified against Reed filed a defamation lawsuit last Thursday in Barnstable Superior Court. They say read and the blogger Aiden Kearney, known online as Turtle Boy, ran a coordinated multi year campaign to falsely accuse them of killing John O'Keeffe and covering it up. Reid's side is calling it desperation on a page. Kearney's lawyer is basically saying, bring it on. We'll prove our case in civil court. The truth may finally have to come out under oath three stories. Let's start with the operating room, August twenty first, twenty twenty four, Miramar Beach, Florida, Ascension, Sacred Heart, Emerald Coast Hospital. William Bryan, seventy years old, a Navy veteran from Muscle Shoals, Alabama, is being wheeled into an operating room for a hand assisted laparoscopic splenectomy removal of the spleen. Here's what you need to know about how he got to that operating room. Brian and his wife, Beverly married a long time own a rental property in Okaloosa County, and they were visiting when Bill started having sharp pain on his left side. They go to the hospit they're admitted for evaluation of what doctors think is a spleen abnormality. Brian doesn't want surgery in Florida.

4:07 He wants to go home. Muscle Shoals is about a five hour drive. He wants to be seen by doctors he knows. That is what he tells his wife, and that is what the records reflect. According to the family's attorney, a Pensacola lawyer named Joe Zarzar, two doctors at Ascension Sacred Heart pressured Brian to stay. Doctor Thomas Shechnovsky, the general surgeon, and doctor Christopher Bokani, the hospital's chief medical officer, both reportedly told the family that if Brian left, he could face serious complications. So Brian stayed. And on August twenty first, he went in for the procedure. And now here's where it gets and I'm choosing my words very carefully, impossible to explain as an accident. The spleen is on the left side of the abdomen, near the stomach. It's about the size of a clenched fist. The livers on the right side of the abdomen. It's the largest internal organ in the human body, roughly four times the size of the spleen. The liver has multiple major vascular connections, the hepatic artery, the portal vein, the hepatic veins, the bile duct, all of which have to be actively dissected loose before the organ can be removed. That's not my analysis, that's the attorney for the family, Joe Zarzar, who said publicly, quote, you can't accidentally take out somebody's liver because it has so many different connection points that nobody, not even a brand new surgeon, would not know they're taking out the

5:39 liver unquote. What the Florida Surgeon General found in an emergency licensed suspension order filed in September of twenty twenty four was this during the procedure Brian began hemorrhaging. Staff called a code and began emergency resuscitation. Shachnowski completed the procedure. Then he placed a quoteute readily identifiable liver unquote on the surgical table, and he told the operating room staff it was the spleen, which it was not. The staff, according to the Florida Surgeon General's own order, were shocked. Brian bled out on the table. He died in that operating room. And then here's the part that I want you to sit with. Shacknofsky's operative report, the official document that describes what happened in the surgery, never mentions the liver.

6:32 The word liver does not appear. The report says, quote the spleen was exposed noted to be severely deformed unquote, and that it was quote quite friable, and certainly the large side made the dissection challenging unquote. Look, I'm going to be honest with you. A deformed, friable spleen is not a liver. A liver is a liver. You know what you're looking at when you're holding it. And Beverly Bryan, the widow, was told by the surgeon that her husband had died because of bleeding from a ruptured spleen. She believed that she went home and buried her husband, believing his spleen had ruptured. She only learned the truth that her husband's liver had been removed and that his spleen was still inside him when the autopsy came back. She later said, and I'm quoting her here. When I tell people what happened, it still sounds too awful to be true, that that could happen. I still have trouble believing it happened myself. Can you imagine? No, I cannot imagine. Nobody can imagine. That is the point. So here's what happens next.

7:42 The Florida Surgeon General suspends Shechnovsky's license on an emergency basis. In September of twenty twenty four, the Alabama Medical Licensure Commission, where he was also licensed, revokes his license that same year. Beverly Brian files a civil malpractice law suit in early twenty twenty five. That case has been moving through the courts. Then, last Monday, April thirteenth, twenty twenty six, the Walton County Sheriff's Office arrests Shachnowsky and Miramar Beach and transports him to the Walton County Jail. The day before, a grand jury handed down a single count of second degree manslaughter. He appeared in court Tuesday, posted seventy five thousand dollars bond, and walked out. He's due back in court May nineteenth, seventy five thousand dollars. Let me walk you through this.

8:33 A man is dead. The State Medical Board has already said, in writing in an emergency order that the surgeon committed quote repeated egregious surgical errors unquote. And also, and this is actually maybe the bigger line engaged in quote egregious conduct fabricating medical records unquote. And the bond is seventy five thousand. That's what they said it at for a doctor who, according to the state's owned findings, killed a patient and then documented the wrong cause of death. Now here's the part that puts it over the line for me. According to the Florida Department of Health report and Zarzar's own statements, this is not the first wrong organ surgery Shaknovsky has been accused of. In May of twenty twenty three, more than a year before Brian died, Seknovsky allegedly removed a portion of another patient's pancreas when the intended surgery was an adrenal gland resection. Different organs, different locations, different operation, and he kept his privileges, kept operating. And then in August of twenty twenty four, Bill Brian walked into that hospital with left side pain. And a year later he's in the ground, and his widow is finding out from an autopsy that her husband didn't have the injury she'd been told he died of. There's one more thing, and this one, this one, I want somebody with subpoena power to answer Tsarzar. The attorney has said publicly that Shaknovsky

10:05 may still be treating patients through the US military system. His words, and I'm quoting here, the military system is not tied to any particular state, and I guess he has figured out a way to continue practicing medicine and not disclose what's going on in his civilian life. Unquote. Now, we have not been able to independently confirm what Shaknovsky's current military contract status is. Somebody needs to the claim that Shaknovsky may still be treating military patients comes from the Bryan family's attorney, Joe Tsarzar, we have not independently verified his current military affiliation. Beverly Brian said something last week after the indictment that has stuck with me. She said, quote, he would want his death to prevent someone else from being hurt, which is what I think the criminal charges being brought will do. If we had to suffer through this and he had to die, then at least no one else will be hurt by this man. Now unquote.

11:02 That is a widow trying to find meaning in something that has no meaning. That is a woman trying to turn a dead husband into a firewall for somebody else's husband, and she shouldn't have to. That is the job of a hospital. That is the job of a credentialing board. That is the job of a chief medical officer, who, in this case, by the way, was allegedly one of the two doctors who pressured Bill Bryan to stay at that hospital when he wanted to drive home to Alabama. May nineteenth is the next hearing we'll be watching. Okay, this next story is going to require us both to slow down. Christopher sign forty five years old at the time of his death, a television anchor in Birmingham, Alabama before that, an anchor in Phoenix before that, a University of Alabama football player aligneman six foot one, two hundred and fifteen pounds, three young sons, a wife he'd known since college, a book deal, a father's day the following week, a vacation plan, birthday parties on the calendar for all three boys, pads and helmet football starting for his sons, a baseball game the next day with a friend from Tennessee.

12:25 And in twenty sixteen, while working at ABC fifteen in Phoenix, Christopher Sign broke a story that, whatever you think about the politics of it, was undeniably one of the biggest scoops of that election cycle. He was the reporter who revealed that former President Bill Clinton had walked across a private airport tarmac in Phoenix and boarded the plane of then Attorney General Loretta Lynch for an unscheduled private meeting. At the exact moment, Lynch's Justice Department was actively investigating whether Hillary Clinton's use of a private email server had been a crime. Both Clinton and Lynch said publicly it was a chance encounter, a social conversation, small talk about grandchildren.

13:07 The revelation of the meeting set off a political firestorm, prompted Lynch to pledge she'd accept whatever the FBI and career prosecutors recommended on the Clinton email case, and it put Christopher Sign on the map as a serious reporter. It also, according to Sign himself, on the record for years, put him in fear for his life. Sign told friends and colleagues he was getting death threats. He went on Fox and Friends and said he had taught his three young sons secret code words so they would know when to hide and who to trust. And in his twenty twenty book called Secret on the Tarmac, he put it in writing. The sentence quoted in the Daily Mail and in coverage at the time reads quote, I made it clear in front of my wife that I was not suicidal.

13:54 We all laughed, but deep down knew it was serious. Unquote. On the morning of June twelfth, twenty twenty one, in his home in Hoover, Alabama, a suburb of Birmingham, Christopher Sign was found hanging from the door of his home office by his wife and by his eldest son. That is the fact that happened. A man who told everyone including in the pages of a published book that if anything happened to him, it would not be by his own hand. Was found dead in what the Jefferson County Coroner ruled within hours a suicide. Here is where I have to be very careful with you, because the moment Christopher Sign died, the conspiracy theory machine spun up Alex Jones, Dan Bongino, then Congresswoman Lauren Bobert, Charlie Kirk. A Facebook group called Justice for Christopher Sign filled up with posts calling him the latest victim of the so called Clinton body count, a conspiracy theory that has for decades attributed any number of deaths of Clinton associates to the Clintons.

14:56 There is no evidence that Clinton's had anything to do with Christopher Sign's death. The Clintons have never been charged. There's no credible investigation pointing to them. I am telling you that not to litigate whether you believe it or don't. I'm telling you that because the conspiracy theory noise around this case has, in my view, actually made it harder for reasonable people to ask reasonable questions about the official investigation. And the official investigation has some real problems. So let's separate those two things and look at what the family is actually saying, not what the internet is saying. The Daily Mail published this week a long piece with extensive interviews with Christopher Sign's mother, his older brother, his older sister, his college football teammate Josh Swords, who went on to become a prosecutor and then a defense attorney, and the publisher of his book, Bill Knocker in Birmingham. These are people who knew him, These are people who grieved him, and every single one of them is on the record saying the official ruling does not sit right. Here are the specific things they are questioning. One on one. There was no full autopsy. The death was ruled a suicide by the coroner within hours. Gnar, the publisher, told The Daily Mail, and this is a paraphrase, he wishes they had paused long enough to honor Sign's own written request to examine the possibility of foul play if he ever died under suspicious circumstances. Number two, Sign's body was cremated within forty eight hours of his death, without his parents,

16:28 without his brother, without his sister being consulted. His mother, Susan Seyn, who is eighty years old, told The Daily Mail she drove from Texas to Alabama the morning after her son's death, specifically to see his body one last time, and when she arrived, she was told by her daughter in law's mother, he's already been cremated. That is her direct quote. Number three. The cremation took place at a facility in a rough part of Birmingham, far from the Hoover suburb where sign L lived. That detail may be nothing, but the family has noted it. Number four, and this is the one I cannot stop thinking about. Sign was a big man, six foot one, two hundred and fifteen pounds of former college offensive lineman. According to the initial reports, he hanged himself with a puppy leash and his feet were touching the floor. Now, I want to be honest with you about something. It is medically and physically possible to die by hanging with your feet on the ground.

17:32 It is not the most common method, but it is not impossible. Asphyxiation from ligature pressure on the neck does not require suspension in the conventional sense. So I'm not going to tell you that detail by itself proves anything. But I will tell you that detail, combined with the absence of a full autopsy. That combination is the part that haunts people. Now Here's where the family's account gets really strange and where I have to flag the We are reporting what the family has told The Daily Mail. We are not independently verifying their accounts. Christopher Sign's older sister, Stephanie, told The Daily Mail that sometime in the summer of twenty twenty three, two years after her brother's death, his widow Laura, called her out of the blue. Stephanie said she was not close to Laura. They had never been closed, so the call itself was unusual. Stephanie says her son Seth was with her and heard the call on speakerphone, and she says Laura repeated the same phrase to her for about an hour. Quote this was a terrible, terrible mistake unquote, Stephanie says. She kept asking what mistake? Tell me what the mistake was, and Laura allegedly just kept repeating it and then eventually hung up. I don't know what that call was. Nobody does except the two people on it. Laura Sign has never spoken publicly about her husband's death. She told The Daily Mail by text this week that she and the boys are focused on his life and legacy, on the outstanding husband and father and

19:03 journalist he was, and not on quote the ending on quote, and two friends of hers and Hoover defend her publicly on the Justice for Christopher Sign facebook page, saying she's been unfairly blamed for circumstances outside her control. That is also part of the record. Here are the other things in the record. Christopher Seinn's family says they have been almost entirely cut off from his three sons since the funeral. His mother, Susan, says she sent her grandson's Christmas presents one year and the presents were returned and she was accused of spreading harmful rumors. Christopher's brother Bobby says the Sign family had to find hotels during the funeral while Laura's family stayed at her house. Laura came into what's been reported as approximately a two million dollar life insurance policy after her husband's death, along with a mortgage insurance policy that paid off the family home within a year.

19:59 She was dating a dev worst father of three named Matt Fagan. She and Fagan are now engaged and have moved together with his three sons and her three sons into a roughly million dollar home in a gated community in Chelsea, Alabama, about thirty minutes from the Hoover home where Christopher died. Nobody was paying attention to Christopher Sign's family after he died. The conspiracy theorists were busy with their own theories. The local police have refused to comment. I want to be clear. The Daily Mail says it contacted the Hoover police captain who handled the case and the former chief who is now the mayor of Hoover multiple times by phone, email and in person, and both declined to say anything. So when the family says nobody will answer their questions, they mean that literally, the people with the records are not talking. Here's what I'm willing to say and what I Am not going to say.

20:53 I'm not going to tell you who killed Christopher Sign. I do not know. Nobody publicly knows. I am not going to tell you the Clintons did it. There is no evidence for that. I am also not going to tell you he definitely died by suicide because the truth is, the investigation that was supposed to determine that was closed in hours without a full autopsy, and the body was destroyed within two days before anyone outside the wife's inner circle could examine it. What I am telling you is that when a man tells his family, his colleagues, his readers, and the national television audience of Fox and Friends that he is not suicidal and then dies in a way ruled suicidal within hours by a county coroner, and is cremated within forty eight hours without his parents being allowed to see him, that is not a closed case. That is an unanswered case, and his family deserves answers they are not being given. There's a playbook for this close the ruling fast, cremate the body, freeze out the family, let the conspiracy theorists run wild, so the legitimate questions get lumped in with the lunatic ones. I am not saying that playbook was used here. I am saying it could have been, and nothing about the handling of this case would tell us otherwise. Christopher Sign left behind three young boys. They would be let me do the math, roughly thirteen eleven and nine. Now, if I'm reading the coverage right, they are growing up in a gated community in rural Alabama with a stepfather and three step brothers.

22:28 Two sources told The Daily Mail that those six boys, all six believe, in the words of one source, that the Clintons did it. Which think about that for a second. If the official version is correct and it was a suicide, those kids have been told a story that isn't true. If the official version is wrong and something else happened, those kids are growing up with a version of events that nobody on the record has confirmed. Either way, somebody is telling those boys a story, and somebody decided which story they're being told. Accountability doesn't have a legal department, but it apparently also doesn't have a coroner willing to do a full autopsy. When the dead man's own book told you to do one, someone has to say his name.

23:13 Christopher Sign forty five, a father, a husband, a reporter, found hanged on June twelfth, twenty twenty one. The case is not closed. The case was just mark closed. There's a difference. Last Thursday, April sixteenth, in Barnstable Superior Court, Massachusetts, a complaint was filed that is about to force the Karen Reid case into a phase nobody quite expected. Four of the people who testified against Read during her criminal proceedings have sued her and the blogger known as Turtleboy for defamation. Let me remind you who we are talking about, because as this case has produced more name participants than most people can keep straight the plaintiffs. The people suing are Jennifer McCabe, Brian Albert, Colin Albert, and Brian Higgins.

24:13 Brian Albert owned the Canton home where John O'Keeffe's body was found in the snow on January twenty ninth, twenty twenty two. Jennifer McCabe is his sister in law. She was with Reed the morning O'Keeffe's body was discovered, and she made the Google search for quote how long to die in the cold? Unquote that became one of the central pieces of evidence at trial. Colin Albert is Brian Albert's nephew. The defense at Reid's first trial tried to point to him as someone who might have been involved in an altercation with O'Keefe. They didn't push that theory as hard the second time around. Brian Higgins is a federal agent and a friend of Brian Albert. He exchanged text messages with Karen Reid in the weeks before O'Keeffe's death.

24:56 Those four are the plaintiffs. The defendants in their new lawsuit are Karen Reid herself acquitted in June of twenty twenty five on murder, manslaughter, and leaving the scene charges, convicted only of drunk driving, and Aiden Kearney, the Worcester area blogger who runs the Turtle Boy media brand. Kearney was the single loudest pro read voice online during both trials. He posted constantly. He named the witnesses by name, he followed them, interviewed people about them, speculated publicly and in detail about their involvement in O'Keefe's death. Kearney is currently also under criminal indictment on witness intimidation charges related to that coverage. The plaintiff's legal team Costcoff, Costcoff, and Beater, along with Hinckley, Allen and Snyder, filed a complaint that is essentially a direct accusation. They allege Reed and Kearney conspired.

25:50 The word conspired is used in the filing to quote defame and did defame the plaintiffs by falsely asserting, among other things, that they were responsible for o'keef's death. Conspired to conceal their roles in his death and framed Read for murder unquote. The plaintiffs are seeking damages. The exact amount is not specified in the filing, but will be developed through discovery. Here is what the plaintiffs said in a joint statement released Thursday, and I want to read you the emotional core of it. They said, quote, for years, we have done the right thing by assisting authorities in the hope that John's family would find justice in peace.

26:30 As a result, we and our families have been subjected to relentless false accusations, harassment, and intimidation based on a deliberate campaign of lies. These lies have torn our community apart and caused immense suffering unquote. Now the other side, Karen Read's attorney, Alan Jackson, who has been with her since before the first trial, called the lawsuit and I'm quoting desperation on a page. Kearney's attorney, a man named Mark Betteroh, issued a statement that is honestly maybe the most interesting document to come out of this whole filing. He said, quote, this lawsuit is the latest attempt to relitigate the question of whether Karen Reid was responsible for John O'Keeffe's death, which the scientific, incredible evidence clearly establishes she wasn't. Truth is an absolute defense to defamation, and this move by the plaintiffs will afford mister Kearney the form to explain exactly why he said what he said about who allegedly is responsible for mister O'Keeffe's death and the alleged cover up un quote, and then Kearney's co counsul Tim Braddle added this quote in essence, the plaintiffs have invited mister Kearney to defend the suit by prosecuting them in civil court for the murder of John O'Keeffe unquote. Look, let me walk you through this, because that is a legitimately audacious legal position, and it tells you what this next phase is going to look like. Defamation in Massachusetts requires the plaintiffs to prove prove that the statements made

28:01 about them were false, that the statements were made negligently or with actual malice, and that the statements caused them harm. Kearney's legal team is publicly signaling that their defense is going to be the most aggressive form of the truth defense available. They are not going to say we apologize, we got carried away, we spoke loosely. They are going to say, on the contrary, everything we said about these four people was accurate, and we are going to prove it in discovery. We are going to take depositions, We are going to cross examine these four under oath. We are going to demand documents. We are going to try to establish in this civil proceeding where the standard of proof is preponderance of the evidence, not beyond a reasonable doubt, that our accusations were justified. That is, and I say this soberly, the exact opposite of what the plaintiffs wanted.

28:53 The plaintiffs wanted a lawsuit that would produce a damages award and make the harassment stop. What they may have walked into is a civil litigation where the blogger they sued gets to subpoena their phone records, their text messages, their communications with one another, and call them to the stand to ask under oath, what exactly happened on the morning of January twenty ninth, twenty twenty two, in the Albert home on Fairview Road. This is also not the only active read related lawsuit. Reader Cell filed a civil rights lawsuit last fall against the Massachusetts State Police, the mccabs, the Alberts, and Higgins, alleging the same framing theory. Her defense ran at criminal trial that o'keef died inside the Albert home after an altercation, and that evidence was planted and reports were falsified to pin it on her. That case was moved to federal court and assigned to a US district judge that is also an active discovery, and the O'Keeffe family, John o'keeff's surviving relatives, has filed their own wrongful death suit against Karen Reid, alleging she killed him and then quote outrageously created a false narrative unquote.

30:04 So you are now looking at three simultaneous civil cases read suing the witnesses and the state police, the witnesses suing Reed and Kearny, and the O'Keeffe family suing Read. Every one of those cases involves the same fundamental factual question what happened on the morning of January twenty ninth, twenty twenty two, And in every one of those cases, that question is going to have to be answered under oath, in deposition with documents. The criminal case is over Karen Reid was acquitted double jeopardy means the Commonwealth of Massachusetts cannot charge her again for O'Keeffe's death. But that does not mean the factual question of what happened that night is settled. It just means the criminal answer to that question is settled. The civil system slower, lower standard of proof allows for discovery on a scale the criminal system doesn't.

30:56 Is now where that factual question moves. And here's the thing about that. In a civil proceeding, the plaintive witnesses, McCabe the Alberts Higgins are going to have to sit for depositions. Jennifer McCabe is going to have to answer questions under oath about the two to twenty seven am Google search time stamp that her expert disputed and Reid's experts stood behind. Brian Albert is going to have to answer questions under oath about why he sold the house and why his dog went to Vermont. Colin Albert is going to have to answer questions under oath about what he was doing that morning. And Brian Higgins is going to have to answer questions under oath about the content of his text messages with Reid. Reed and Kearney are also going to have to answer questions under oath about coordination, about sourcing, about what they knew when they said what they said. This is exactly what Kearney's lawyer was telegraphing when he said, bring it. This is our forum. Accountability doesn't have a legal department, but accountability in this case now has three law firms, a federal judge, two state court judges, and an ocean of sworn testimony ahead of it.

32:05 Someone killed John O'Keefe. The jury said it wasn't Karen Reid, but somebody did, and all three of these lawsuits are in their way about finally getting the answer to that question, or at least as close to it as the system is capable of producing. The next procedural dates on the calendar are pre trial scheduling. We'll be watching all three cases, so three stories, one thread in all three. The official version is not holding a surgeon whose operative report says spleen when the organ on the table was clearly a liver. A coroner who ruled suicide in hours for a man whose published books said he wasn't suicidal, a criminal acquittal that is about to collide with three simultaneous civil discovery processes designed to force sworn answers from people who didn't have to answer much at trial. That it's not a mistake.

33:01 That's what happens when the first version of the story gets written in a hurry. Somebody eventually makes you show your work tomorrow. We'll be back with more. Until then, do better. I'm Garrett Fisher. This is Daily Crime and Justice. Disclaimer. This podcast draws on reporting from Internet sources, tabloids, court documents, and AI assisted research. It is entertainment, not legal fact. Some claims reported here come from published interviews with family members and attorneys and have not been independently verified. Details may be incorrect, incomplete, or superseded by later reporting. Where we could flag uncertainty, we did where we couldn't. Assume.

33:44 We're telling you a story shaped by the records available to us at the time of taping. Allegations are allegations until proven otherwise. If any of this matters to you, personally, consult a lawyer, not a podcaster.