Aug. 31, 2025
Labor Day Family Massacre: Day 2 "JOHN LIST: 18 Years of Freedom After Killing Everyone at the Dinner Table"
Content warning- disturbing content Reid Carter continues Labor Day Family Massacre with the 1971 New Jersey mansion murders that went unsolved for 18 years. John List, devout Lutheran and failing accountant, executed his wife Helen, mother Alma, and...
Content warning- disturbing content
Reid Carter continues Labor Day Family Massacre with the 1971 New Jersey mansion murders that went unsolved for 18 years. John List, devout Lutheran and failing accountant, executed his wife Helen, mother Alma, and three teenage children, then arranged their bodies in the ballroom like a funeral parlor. He left classical music playing, turned down the heat to preserve the corpses, and vanished to start a new life as "Robert Clark." From his 18-page confession letter blaming poverty for murder to his capture via America's Most Wanted, this is how a man who thought God would forgive him learned society wouldn't.
Join the Celebrity Trials community on social media! We're building a passionate group of true crime enthusiasts who love diving deep into the most shocking cases in America.
Follow us on Facebook and Instagram by searching "Celebrity Trials Podcast" on either platform. You'll get exclusive behind-the-scenes content, breaking news updates on cases we're covering, and early alerts when new episodes drop. Our social media is where Reid Carter's hottest takes live, including reactions that don't make it into the show.
But more importantly, it's where YOU come in. Share your theories, debate the verdicts, and connect with fellow listeners who are just as obsessed with justice as you are. Did the jury get it right? What questions do you still have? Your comments and insights often shape future episodes.
We cover the trials that matter, but our community makes the conversation unforgettable. Come for Reid's signature cynical commentary, stay for the incredible discussions with thousands of true crime fans who get it.
Reid Carter continues Labor Day Family Massacre with the 1971 New Jersey mansion murders that went unsolved for 18 years. John List, devout Lutheran and failing accountant, executed his wife Helen, mother Alma, and three teenage children, then arranged their bodies in the ballroom like a funeral parlor. He left classical music playing, turned down the heat to preserve the corpses, and vanished to start a new life as "Robert Clark." From his 18-page confession letter blaming poverty for murder to his capture via America's Most Wanted, this is how a man who thought God would forgive him learned society wouldn't.
Join the Celebrity Trials community on social media! We're building a passionate group of true crime enthusiasts who love diving deep into the most shocking cases in America.
Follow us on Facebook and Instagram by searching "Celebrity Trials Podcast" on either platform. You'll get exclusive behind-the-scenes content, breaking news updates on cases we're covering, and early alerts when new episodes drop. Our social media is where Reid Carter's hottest takes live, including reactions that don't make it into the show.
But more importantly, it's where YOU come in. Share your theories, debate the verdicts, and connect with fellow listeners who are just as obsessed with justice as you are. Did the jury get it right? What questions do you still have? Your comments and insights often shape future episodes.
We cover the trials that matter, but our community makes the conversation unforgettable. Come for Reid's signature cynical commentary, stay for the incredible discussions with thousands of true crime fans who get it.
WEBVTT
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Warning. This special episode contains graphic descriptions of family murders,
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including violence against children and pregnant women. The content includes
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detailed forensic evidence and disturbing testimony from actual cases. This
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material may not be suitable for all listeners. Discretion is
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strongly advised. Calarugashock Media.
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Good Morning, I'm read Carter.
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Sunday, August thirty first, twenty twenty five, day two of
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our Labor Day Family Massacre. While you're at church this Sunday,
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let me tell you about John List, a devout Lutheran
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who decided the Christian thing to do was execute his
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entire family rather than let them face poverty. November ninth,
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nineteen seventy one, Westfield, New Jersey. List shot his wife
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in the kitchen while she drank coffee, shot his mother
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in her apartment upstairs, then waited for his children to
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come home from school and shot them one by one
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as they walked through the door. He arranged their bodies
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in the mansions ballroom, left classical music playing on the intercom,
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and disappeared for eighteen years because, in John Lyst's mind
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sending his family to heaven with bullets was better than
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admitting he'd failed as a provider. This is celebrity trials.
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Let's start with what John List was supposed to be
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versus what he actually was on paper. John Emil List
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was the American dream. World War II veteran, Korean War veteran,
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University of Michigan graduate and business administration married to Helen,
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a beautiful widow with a daughter. Three children total, Patricia sixteen,
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John Junior fifteen, Frederick thirteen. They lived in a nineteen
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room Victorian mansion called Breeze Knoll in Westfield, New Jersey.
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The mansion had a ballroom, a ballroom, folks, stained glass windows,
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multiple fireplaces, the kind of house that said we've made it,
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except they hadn't. By nineteen seventy one, John List was drowning.
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He'd been fired from his job as a bank vice president,
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then fired from his job as an insurance salesman. His mother, Alma,
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lived upstairs and constantly criticized him. His wife, Helen had
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become an alcoholic, probably because she was married to John List.
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His daughter Patricia was pursuing acting, which his Lutheran sensibilities
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found sinful. His sons were struggling in school, and the
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bills my God the bills. The mansion cost a fortune
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to heat. The property taxes were crushing. Helen refused to economize.
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She kept spending like they were rich while they were
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months from bankruptcy. Later said he'd steal money from his
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mother to pay bills. He'd skip mortgage payments, he was
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kiting checks. The house of cards was collapsing. But here's
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the thing about John List. He was obsessed with appearances,
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with control, with being seen as the successful provider. He'd
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rather die than admit failure. Actually strike that he'd rather
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his family die than admit failure. By October nineteen seventy one,
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Liszt had made his decision. If he couldn't provide for
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his family in life, he'd provide for them in death.
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Send them to heaven before they could be corrupted by poverty,
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save their souls by destroying their bodies. He spent weeks planning,
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made multiple trips to different stores to buy ammunition so
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no one would notice, practiced his marksmanship at a gun range,
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researched which funeral homes had the best rates. This wasn't
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a snap decision. This was premeditated murder disguised as religious mercy.
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November ninth, nineteen seventy one started like any other day
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in the List house. The kids went to school, Helen
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had her morning coffee. Alma listened to the radio in
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her upstairs apartment. John List had already written an eighteen
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page confession letter to his pastor, already canceled the newspaper delivery,
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already told the schools his family was visiting Helen's sick
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mother in North Carolina. At nine am, Helen List was
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sitting at the kitchen table in her nightgown, drinking coffee.
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John walked up behind her and shot her in the
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side of the head with his nine millimeter Stire automatic.
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She died instantly, slumping over her coffee cup. He dragged
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her body to the ballroom laid her on a sleeping bag.
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The ballroom folks, the symbol of their supposed success, became
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their morgue. Next, he climbed the stairs to his mother's apartment.
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Alma List, eighty four years old, was in her kitchen.
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He shot her in the head. She fell to the floor.
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He left her there, too heavy to drag to the ballroom.
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Then he waited. This is the part that proves John
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Lists evil. He didn't snap. He didn't lose control. He
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made lunch, He cleaned the kitchen where he'd murdered his wife.
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He prepared for his children to come home. Patricia got
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home first around three point thirty. She walked through the door,
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probably calling out for her mother. John shot her in
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the jaw. The bullet didn't kill her immediately, so he
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shot her again in the head. He dragged her to
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the ballroom, placed her next to her mother. Frederick came
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home next same routine. Walked through the door, bullet to
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the head, dragged to the ballroom. John Junior had a
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soccer game after school. List drove to watch his son play.
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Sat in the stands like any other father, knowing he
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was about to murder this boy, watching him run and
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laugh with his teammates for the last time. After the game,
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they drove home together, father and son, talking about the game.
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John Junior had no idea he was riding with his
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family's executioner. When they got home, Lisz told his son
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to go to the basement. As John Junior walked down
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the stairs, his father shot him multiple times in the
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back and head. The boy tried to fight, there were
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defensive wounds. He crawled toward the door, his father kept shooting.
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It took multiple bullets to kill John Junior, because, unlike
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the others, he saw it coming. Liz dragged his son's
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body to the ballroom, arranged all the bodies on sleeping bags,
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placed their arms across their chests like they were sleeping,
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put paper towels over their faces. Then he turned on
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the intercom system and played classical music throughout the house,
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turned the heat down to fifty degrees to slow decomposition,
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left lights on in every room to make it look
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like the family was home and John List. He ate dinner,
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slept in that house with five corpses, woke up the
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next morning, made breakfast, and drove away forever. Before we
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talk about lists eighteen years of freedom, we need to
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talk about the letter. John List left an eighteen page
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confession for his pastor, Eugene Rowinkle. This wasn't a suicide note.
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List never planned to kill himself. Too much of a coward.
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This was his justification for mass murder. Some highlights from
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this manifesto of madness. I know that what I've done
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is wrong, but at least I'm certain that all have
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gone to heaven now. If things had continued as they were,
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this would not have been the case. He was saving
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their souls. You see murder as missionary work. I'm sure
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many will say, how could anyone do such a horrible thing.
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My only answer is it isn't easy, and I'm only
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concerned with making my peace with God, not concerned with
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his dead family, just his own salvation. Ps mother is
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in the hallway in the attic. She was too heavy
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to move his own mother, and she's a ps an afterthought,
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too heavy to drag to his staged funeral scene. List
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also left detailed instructions about the house, the mortgage, the bills.
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He was more concerned about utility payments than the five
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people he'd murdered. Then John List disappeared. He destroyed all
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photos of himself except one, a portrait from his high
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school yearbook, drove his car to JFK Airport and abandoned it,
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then vanished into America. For a month, nobody knew the
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Lists were dead. The lights blazed in the empty mansion,
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the classical music played to corpses. The neighbors thought they
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were on an extended vacation. Finally, on December seventh, Patricia's
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drama coach got suspicious the family had been gone too long.
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He called the police. What they found in that ballroom
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haunts investigators to this day. Five bodies in advanced decomposition,
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The paper towels on their faces had been eaten through
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by fluids. The sleeping bags were soaked with decay, the
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classical music still playing through the intercom. The manhunt began immediately,
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but John List had a month's head start and a
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new identity. He became Robert Peter Clark, moved to Denver,
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got a job as an accountant, joined a Lutheran church because,
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of course he did, and in nineteen eighty five he
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remarried a woman named Dolores Miller, who had no idea
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she was marrying a family annihilator. For eighteen years, John
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List lived as Bob Clark, went to church every Sunday,
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had dinner parties, filed taxes, made love to his new
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wife in a bed paid for by his family's blood. Meanwhile,
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in Westfield, the List mansion became infamous. Local kids called
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it the murder House. It was eventually destroyed by fire
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in nineteen seventy ten. Two arson suspected but never proved.
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Like the house itself, couldn't stand being stained with that
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much blood. We'll be right back with how America's Most
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Wanted finally caught John List and his incredible claim that
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God had forgiven him, so the courts should too. For
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eighteen years, John List was a ghost. The FBI had
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him on their most Wanted list, but every lead went nowhere.
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His family was buried, the mansion was ashes, and their
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killer was living his best life in Colorado. Enter America's
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Most Wanted in John Walsh. In nineteen eighty nine. The
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show decided to feature the List case, but they had
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a problem. Only one old photo existed, so they hired
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forensic artist Frank Bender to create an age progressed sculpture
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of what List might look like. Eighteen years later, Bender
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studied List's personality, realized he was vain, meticulous, obsessive about appearance.
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Figured he'd still wear glasses, still part his hair the
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same way, probably have a receding hairline. The bust he
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created was eerie in its accuracy. May twenty first, nineteen
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eighty nine. The episode aired. Eleven days later, a woman
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in Colorado was watching a rerun and froze that bust
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looked exactly like her neighbor Bob Clark. She called the FBI.
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June first, nineteen eighty nine, FBI agents knocked on Bob
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Clark's door in mid Lothian, Virginia. He'd moved from Denver,
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he answered calmly. They asked, are you John List? I
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am Robert Clark, he replied. They fingerprinted him it was List.
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His wife, Dolores, was devastated. She'd been married to a
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family killer for four years and never knew he'd told
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her his first wife died of cancer, that his children
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died in a car accident. She'd been sleeping next to
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a man who executed five people. List's arrest made national news.
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The mild mannered accountant who'd been hiding in plain sight,
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the church going murderer who'd fooled everyone. At his trial
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in nineteen ninety, List's defense was incredible, not guilty by
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reason of diminished capacity. His lawyer argued he'd suffered from
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obsessive compulsive disorder, that his fear of poverty was a
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mental illness. List himself testified, and folks, this is where
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you see the true narcissist. He showed no remorse, none.
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He talked about the murders like they were accounting errors.
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When asked why he didn't just kill himself instead, List said,
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suicide is a sin. I would have gone to hell.
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But murdering your entire family, that's fine. God will forgive that,
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but not suicide the logic of a lunatic. The prosecution
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presented List's meticulous planningultiple ammunition purchases, the practice at the
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gun range, the eighteen page letter, the month long preparation.
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This wasn't diminished capacity. This was calculated execution. The jury
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deliberated for nine hours. Guilty on five counts of first
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degree murder. Judge William Lee Wurheimer sentenced him to five
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consecutive life terms, saying John List is without remorse and
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without honor. He saw himself as the victim. List served
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his time at New Jersey State Prison. He gave interviews
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where he maintained God had forgiven him, wrote letters to
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his second wife asking for commissary money, never once expressed
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genuine regret for murdering his family. John Lyst died in
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prison on March twenty first, two thousand and eight, pneumonia.
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He was eighty two years old. He'd lived thirty seven
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years after murdering his family. Thirty seven years they didn't get.
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But before we close, let's talk about what John List
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really was. Because he spent decades painting himself as a
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religious man driven to desperate measures by circumstances.
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Bullshit.
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John List was a narcissist who couldn't handle failure. His
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identity was so wrapped up in being the successful provider
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that he'd rather kill his family than admit he couldn't
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afford the lifestyle. Think about the staging in that ballroom,
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bodies arranged like they were sleeping, classical music playing. This
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wasn't about sending them to heaven. It was about control.
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Even in death. He was arranging them to his specifications.
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The eighteen page letter wasn't a confession, It was a justification.
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He wanted his pastor to understand, to forgive, to see
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him as a martyr, not a murderer. And the eighteen
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years of freedom. He never tried to turn himself in,
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never sent money to help with his family's bear never
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showed actual remorse. He just started over like they never existed.
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His second wife, Dolores, said he was a wonderful husband,
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gentle kind went to church every Sunday, which means John
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List could turn his humanity on and off like a
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light switch. He chose to be a monster to his
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first family. Here's what really happened in that Westfield mansion.
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Helen List was drinking her morning coffee when her husband
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executed her because she spent too much money. Alma List,
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an eighty four year old woman, was murdered by her
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own son because she was a financial burden. Patricia List, sixteen,
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who wanted to be an actress, was shot in the
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face because her father found her dreams sinful. Frederick List
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thirteen was murdered walking through his front door because his
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father thought poverty was worse than death. John Junior, fifteen
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fought for his life in that basement, crawled toward escape.
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His father shot him repeatedly in the back because the
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boy wouldn't die quietly like the others. Five people who
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trusted John List, five people who loved him, Five people
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he executed because his ego couldn't handle being poor. The
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