WEBVTT
1
00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:04.320
Warning. This episode contains references to sexual situations that may
2
00:00:04.360 --> 00:00:07.559
be disturbing to some listeners. Please proceed with caution.
3
00:00:11.800 --> 00:00:20.640
Callaroga Shark Media, Good morning, I'm read Carter, and welcome
4
00:00:20.640 --> 00:00:21.879
back to Celebrity Trials.
5
00:00:23.199 --> 00:00:27.879
April eleventh to June first, twenty twenty two. For seven weeks,
6
00:00:28.239 --> 00:00:32.039
the Fairfax County Courthouse became the most famous courtroom in America.
7
00:00:32.560 --> 00:00:36.039
But the real trial wasn't happening inside. It was happening
8
00:00:36.119 --> 00:00:40.000
on TikTok, Twitter, and YouTube, where millions of people decided
9
00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:43.119
Johnny Depp was a hero and Amber Heard was a villain.
10
00:00:43.799 --> 00:00:46.000
This is the story of how social media turned a
11
00:00:46.039 --> 00:00:50.640
defamation case into a cultural moment that redefined celebrity justice,
12
00:00:51.000 --> 00:00:54.560
how a British judge's legal determination was overruled by American
13
00:00:54.640 --> 00:00:58.200
Internet users, and how Johnny Depp discovered that sometimes losing
14
00:00:58.240 --> 00:01:01.000
in court is less important than winning on the internet.
15
00:01:01.320 --> 00:01:04.079
Because in twenty twenty two, we learned that the most
16
00:01:04.120 --> 00:01:07.640
powerful jury isn't the seven people in the courtroom, it's
17
00:01:07.680 --> 00:01:12.519
the seven million people watching on their phones. The decision
18
00:01:12.560 --> 00:01:15.079
to live stream the Depth versus Heard trial was the
19
00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:19.159
single most important factor in everything that followed, without cameras
20
00:01:19.159 --> 00:01:22.319
in the courtroom. This would have been just another celebrity
21
00:01:22.359 --> 00:01:27.640
divorce dispute settled quietly with minimal public attention. With cameras,
22
00:01:27.879 --> 00:01:31.200
it became the most watched legal proceedings since oj Simpson.
23
00:01:31.760 --> 00:01:35.760
Judge Penny Askeraate's decision to allow live streaming wasn't unusual.
24
00:01:36.079 --> 00:01:40.280
Virginia courts regularly permit cameras in civil cases, but no
25
00:01:40.359 --> 00:01:44.120
one anticipated the scale of public interest this trial would generate.
26
00:01:44.519 --> 00:01:47.719
Within days of the trial beginning, millions of people were
27
00:01:47.760 --> 00:01:50.519
tuning in daily to watch Johnny Depp and Amber Heard
28
00:01:50.599 --> 00:01:54.480
testify about the most intimate and disturbing details of their
29
00:01:54.519 --> 00:01:59.000
failed marriage. Law on Crime Network, which streamed the trial live,
30
00:01:59.120 --> 00:02:03.480
reported record breaking viewership numbers. YouTube channels dedicated to trial
31
00:02:03.560 --> 00:02:07.920
commentary gained hundreds of thousands of subscribers overnight. But here's
32
00:02:07.920 --> 00:02:11.560
where it gets really interesting. The people watching weren't just
33
00:02:11.719 --> 00:02:15.800
passive observers. They were actively participating in the trial through
34
00:02:15.840 --> 00:02:20.599
social media commentary, meme creation, and viral content that shaped
35
00:02:20.639 --> 00:02:24.599
public perception of the evidence in real time. TikTok became
36
00:02:24.680 --> 00:02:28.479
ground zero for trial coverage. The hashtag justice for Johnny
37
00:02:28.479 --> 00:02:32.879
Depp accumulated billions of views. Snippets of Depth's testimony were
38
00:02:33.000 --> 00:02:37.759
edited into sympathetic montages, His jokes and facial expressions became memes.
39
00:02:38.599 --> 00:02:42.039
Users created content portraying him as a wronged victim fighting
40
00:02:42.080 --> 00:02:46.719
against a manipulative ex wife. Meanwhile, content supporting amber heard
41
00:02:46.840 --> 00:02:50.960
was significantly less prominent and often met with hostile responses.
42
00:02:51.599 --> 00:02:55.680
The algorithm seemed to favor pro dep content, creating an
43
00:02:55.719 --> 00:02:59.360
echo chamber where his version of events dominated the conversation.
44
00:03:00.879 --> 00:03:03.680
Research later revealed that much of the online support for
45
00:03:03.759 --> 00:03:08.639
Depp wasn't entirely organic. Studies found evidence of coordinated campaigns,
46
00:03:08.719 --> 00:03:12.759
bought activity, and strategic messaging designed to influence public opinion,
47
00:03:13.159 --> 00:03:16.960
but whether the support was real or manufactured, the effect
48
00:03:17.039 --> 00:03:20.039
was the same. By the time the jury reached their verdict,
49
00:03:20.159 --> 00:03:23.319
the court of public opinion had already decided Johnny Depp
50
00:03:23.360 --> 00:03:27.080
was innocent. The physical courthouse became a pilgrimage site for
51
00:03:27.120 --> 00:03:31.400
Depp fans. Every day, crowds gathered outside the Fairfax County
52
00:03:31.400 --> 00:03:35.520
Building with signs reading justice for Johnny and we Love
53
00:03:35.520 --> 00:03:39.319
you Captain Jack. When Depp arrived each morning, he was
54
00:03:39.360 --> 00:03:42.680
greeted like a rock star. When herd arrived she faced
55
00:03:42.680 --> 00:03:46.960
a hostile crowd that sometimes shouted liar and worse. Think
56
00:03:47.000 --> 00:03:49.599
about that for a moment. We had a situation where
57
00:03:49.599 --> 00:03:52.879
the alleged victim of domestic violence was being publicly heckled
58
00:03:52.919 --> 00:03:56.319
while walking into court to testify about her abuse. Whatever
59
00:03:56.360 --> 00:03:58.599
you think about the merits of the case, that's a
60
00:03:58.599 --> 00:04:01.639
troubling development for anyone one who cares about encouraging abuse
61
00:04:01.719 --> 00:04:05.000
victims to come forward. But the most significant aspect of
62
00:04:05.039 --> 00:04:08.120
the social media phenomenon was how it influenced the way
63
00:04:08.159 --> 00:04:12.199
evidence was presented and received. Lawyers on both sides were
64
00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:15.199
clearly aware that they weren't just arguing to seven jurors.
65
00:04:15.479 --> 00:04:19.439
They were performing for millions of viewers who would create clips, memes,
66
00:04:19.639 --> 00:04:24.120
and commentary that could influence public perception. Johnny Depp's legal team,
67
00:04:24.439 --> 00:04:29.079
led by Camille Vasquez and Benjamin Chew, seemed particularly attuned
68
00:04:29.199 --> 00:04:34.560
to the social media audience. Their cross examinations were theatrical, quotable,
69
00:04:34.839 --> 00:04:39.959
and designed to create viral moments. When Vasquez said objection
70
00:04:40.199 --> 00:04:43.639
Hearsay in response to something Heard was trying to say,
71
00:04:44.040 --> 00:04:48.920
it became an instant meme. Amber Heard's legal team, by contrast,
72
00:04:49.160 --> 00:04:53.399
seemed unprepared for the social media battlefield. Their presentations were
73
00:04:53.439 --> 00:04:58.079
more traditional, focused on legal arguments, rather than creating shareable
74
00:04:58.120 --> 00:05:01.079
content in a trial being and watched by millions of
75
00:05:01.120 --> 00:05:04.879
people with short attention spans. That was a strategic mistake.
76
00:05:05.959 --> 00:05:09.480
Let's talk about the evidence that captivated America and how
77
00:05:09.560 --> 00:05:14.920
social media transformed legal proceedings into entertainment. The audio recordings
78
00:05:14.920 --> 00:05:18.040
were probably the most damaging evidence against Herd in terms
79
00:05:18.079 --> 00:05:22.279
of public perception. In one recording, Herd can be heard
80
00:05:22.319 --> 00:05:26.639
saying to Depp, tell them I, Johnny Depp, I'm a
81
00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:30.160
victim of domestic violence, and see how many people believe
82
00:05:30.439 --> 00:05:34.800
or side with you. In another recording, Herd appears to
83
00:05:34.839 --> 00:05:39.319
admit to hitting Depp. I'm sorry that I didn't hit
84
00:05:39.399 --> 00:05:42.279
you across the face in a proper slap, but I
85
00:05:42.439 --> 00:05:46.800
was hitting you. It was not punching you, babe. You're
86
00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:51.639
not punched. These recordings were devastating for Herd's credibility because
87
00:05:51.680 --> 00:05:55.199
they seemed to show her being manipulative and admitting to violence,
88
00:05:55.879 --> 00:05:59.240
But they also revealed the toxic dynamic of their relationship,
89
00:06:00.079 --> 00:06:02.480
two people who seemed to bring out the absolute worst
90
00:06:02.480 --> 00:06:06.319
in each other. The social media response to these recordings
91
00:06:06.639 --> 00:06:10.639
was immediate and brutal. Clips were edited and shared millions
92
00:06:10.639 --> 00:06:14.199
of times, usually without the full context of the conversations.
93
00:06:14.959 --> 00:06:19.279
TikTok users created videos mocking Herd's voice and expressions. The
94
00:06:19.360 --> 00:06:23.199
recordings became evidence not just of what happened in their marriage,
95
00:06:23.519 --> 00:06:26.839
but of who amber Heard was as a person. Then
96
00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:30.680
there was the bed incident, probably the most bizarre and
97
00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:34.439
memed piece of evidence in the entire trial. Depp claimed
98
00:06:34.439 --> 00:06:36.959
that Herd or one of her friends had defecated in
99
00:06:37.000 --> 00:06:40.720
their shared bed after a fight. Herd denied this, claiming
100
00:06:40.759 --> 00:06:43.360
it was their small dog who had bowel control issues.
101
00:06:43.879 --> 00:06:47.439
Whether you believe Depp's version or herds, the incident became
102
00:06:47.519 --> 00:06:52.000
known online as Amberturd, a cruel nickname that followed Herd
103
00:06:52.000 --> 00:06:56.800
throughout the trial and beyond. It was juvenile, misogynistic, and
104
00:06:56.920 --> 00:06:59.959
exactly the kind of content that goes viral on social media.
105
00:07:00.439 --> 00:07:03.439
But here's what's troubling about how this evidence was received.
106
00:07:03.959 --> 00:07:06.279
Instead of treating it as a symptom of how toxic
107
00:07:06.360 --> 00:07:10.000
and dysfunctional their relationship had become, the Internet turned it
108
00:07:10.040 --> 00:07:14.439
into proof that amber Heard was disgusting and untrustworthy. The
109
00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:17.519
same incident that might have made reasonable people think these
110
00:07:17.560 --> 00:07:21.160
two people were horrible to each other became ammunition for
111
00:07:21.240 --> 00:07:26.399
painting Herd as uniquely villainous. The photographs of Herd's alleged
112
00:07:26.439 --> 00:07:30.959
injuries became another battleground. Herd presented photos showing what appeared
113
00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:34.560
to be bruises on her face after alleged incidents of violence.
114
00:07:35.240 --> 00:07:38.120
Depp's team argued that the injuries were either faked with
115
00:07:38.160 --> 00:07:42.000
makeup or caused by something other than domestic violence. Expert
116
00:07:42.079 --> 00:07:46.720
witnesses testified about the photos from both sides. Makeup artists
117
00:07:46.759 --> 00:07:51.079
explained how bruises could be faked, medical experts analyzed the
118
00:07:51.120 --> 00:07:55.800
patterns of alleged injuries, but on social media, the photos
119
00:07:55.839 --> 00:08:00.439
were subjected to amateur forensic analysis by users who had
120
00:08:00.439 --> 00:08:05.120
no expertise but strong opinions. The text messages were equally
121
00:08:05.160 --> 00:08:09.319
damaging to both parties. Dep's texts revealed someone whose drug
122
00:08:09.360 --> 00:08:14.240
and alcohol abuse had reached truly frightening levels. Messages describing
123
00:08:14.319 --> 00:08:17.600
consuming massive amounts of cocaine and alcohol painted a picture
124
00:08:17.639 --> 00:08:20.759
of a man in serious trouble. But the most disturbing
125
00:08:20.839 --> 00:08:24.439
texts were the ones where Depth described violent fantasies about Herd.
126
00:08:24.879 --> 00:08:27.519
In one message, he wrote about wanting to burn her
127
00:08:27.680 --> 00:08:30.480
and then fuck her burnt corpse afterward to make sure
128
00:08:30.519 --> 00:08:35.039
she is dead. These texts should have been devastating evidence
129
00:08:35.080 --> 00:08:38.799
against Depth. They showed someone with violent thoughts about his
130
00:08:38.840 --> 00:08:42.200
ex wife that went far beyond normal anger or frustration,
131
00:08:42.919 --> 00:08:47.399
but somehow the social media narrative managed to minimize their significance.
132
00:08:48.360 --> 00:08:53.240
Celebrity witnesses added another layer of drama. Kate Moss, Depp's
133
00:08:53.279 --> 00:08:57.360
former girlfriend, testified via video link to deny rumors that
134
00:08:57.399 --> 00:09:01.799
he had pushed her downstairs. Her testimony was brief but powerful,
135
00:09:02.200 --> 00:09:05.279
and it went viral immediately as evidence of Depp's character
136
00:09:06.080 --> 00:09:10.399
on Herd's side. Actress Ellen Barkin testified about Depth's jealousy
137
00:09:10.440 --> 00:09:14.240
and controlling behavior during their brief relationship in the nineteen nineties,
138
00:09:14.840 --> 00:09:18.320
but her testimony received much less social media attention and
139
00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:21.960
was often dismissed by Depp supporters as irrelevant or biased.
140
00:09:24.200 --> 00:09:40.639
Back in a moment, Welcome back to Celebrity Trials, I'm
141
00:09:40.679 --> 00:09:44.080
read Carter, and we're examining how social media transformed the
142
00:09:44.159 --> 00:09:48.159
Depth Versus Herd trial into a cultural phenomenon that redefined
143
00:09:48.200 --> 00:09:54.720
celebrity justice. June one, twenty twenty two. After seven weeks
144
00:09:54.720 --> 00:09:58.919
of testimony and three days of deliberation, the jury reached
145
00:09:58.919 --> 00:10:02.039
their verdict. Johnny Depp won on all three counts of
146
00:10:02.080 --> 00:10:05.840
his defamation claim. The jury found that Amber Heerd's Washington
147
00:10:05.919 --> 00:10:09.200
Post op ed had defamed him and awarded him ten
148
00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:13.039
million dollars and thirty five cents in damages. Amber heard
149
00:10:13.080 --> 00:10:15.759
one on one count of her countersuit. The jury found
150
00:10:15.799 --> 00:10:18.679
that Depp's lawyer, Adam Waldman had defamed her by calling
151
00:10:18.679 --> 00:10:22.960
her abuse allegations a hoax. She was awarded two million dollars,
152
00:10:23.200 --> 00:10:26.279
but the numbers don't tell the real story. This was
153
00:10:26.320 --> 00:10:29.279
perceived as a total victory for Johnny Depp and a
154
00:10:29.320 --> 00:10:34.799
complete vindication of his reputation. The reaction outside the courthouse
155
00:10:34.879 --> 00:10:38.320
was immediate and euphoric Depp fans who had gathered for
156
00:10:38.399 --> 00:10:43.440
weeks erupted in celebration. Social media exploded with hashtag justice
157
00:10:43.440 --> 00:10:47.399
for Johnny Depp. Content celebrities who had remained silent during
158
00:10:47.399 --> 00:10:50.600
the trial suddenly felt safe to express support for Depp.
159
00:10:51.000 --> 00:10:53.840
Depp himself wasn't even present for the verdict. He was
160
00:10:53.879 --> 00:10:57.200
in the UK performing concerts with musician Jeff Beck, but
161
00:10:57.279 --> 00:11:00.200
he released a statement saying the jury gave me my
162
00:11:00.320 --> 00:11:03.960
life back. Heard was present in court and looked devastated
163
00:11:03.960 --> 00:11:07.759
as the verdict was read. Her statement afterward was defiant
164
00:11:08.000 --> 00:11:11.679
but defensive. I'm even more disappointed with what this verdict
165
00:11:11.720 --> 00:11:14.879
means for other women. It is a setback. It sets
166
00:11:14.960 --> 00:11:16.879
back the clock to a time when a woman who
167
00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:20.639
spoke up and spoke out could be publicly shamed and humiliated.
168
00:11:21.759 --> 00:11:25.159
The immediate aftermath of the verdict revealed just how completely
169
00:11:25.240 --> 00:11:29.559
the social media narrative had overtaken the legal reality. Depp's
170
00:11:29.600 --> 00:11:34.440
career rehabilitation began immediately. He made surprise appearances at concerts
171
00:11:34.440 --> 00:11:38.120
and award shows. He signed new acting deals. The entertainment
172
00:11:38.120 --> 00:11:42.480
industry embraced him like a returning hero. Meanwhile, herd faced
173
00:11:42.519 --> 00:11:48.399
continued online harassment and career consequences. Studios distanced themselves from her.
174
00:11:49.039 --> 00:11:53.559
Her role in Aquaman TiO was reportedly reduced. The woman
175
00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:56.399
who had won a countersuit claiming she was defamed faced
176
00:11:56.440 --> 00:11:59.879
continued defamation from the same people who were celebrating justice.
177
00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:03.960
Here's what makes the depth victory particularly remarkable. He won
178
00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:07.279
an American defamation case with the same evidence that had
179
00:12:07.360 --> 00:12:09.559
led to his defeat in the UK libel case two
180
00:12:09.639 --> 00:12:13.639
years earlier. The facts hadn't changed. The allegations were the same,
181
00:12:13.960 --> 00:12:17.960
the evidence was largely identical, but the audience was completely different.
182
00:12:18.639 --> 00:12:22.080
Instead of a trained British judge evaluating evidence according to
183
00:12:22.159 --> 00:12:26.039
legal standards, we had seven Virginia jurors who had been
184
00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:29.039
living in the same social media environment as everyone else
185
00:12:29.039 --> 00:12:32.679
for seven weeks. Studies conducted after the trial revealed the
186
00:12:32.679 --> 00:12:37.159
extent to which social media had influenced public perception. Research
187
00:12:37.200 --> 00:12:40.159
firm Bought's Sentinel found that a significant portion of the
188
00:12:40.200 --> 00:12:44.279
anti herd content on Twitter showed signs of coordination and
189
00:12:44.440 --> 00:12:48.360
inauthentic behavior. But by the time these studies were published,
190
00:12:48.720 --> 00:12:53.039
the trial was over and the narrative was set. The
191
00:12:53.080 --> 00:12:57.879
settlement came in December twenty twenty two. Both sides agreed
192
00:12:57.919 --> 00:13:01.039
to drop their appeals and Heard agreed to pay Debt
193
00:13:01.159 --> 00:13:04.799
one million dollars, a fraction of the jury award but
194
00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:08.799
enough for Dept to claim victory. Both released statements about
195
00:13:08.840 --> 00:13:11.600
being ready to move on with their lives, but the
196
00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:15.919
cultural impact of the trial extended far beyond the specific case.
197
00:13:16.519 --> 00:13:20.159
Legal experts worried that the verdict would discourage domestic violence
198
00:13:20.240 --> 00:13:24.360
survivors from speaking out, fearing they could face expensive litigation
199
00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:28.679
if their abusers had enough money and legal resources. Women's
200
00:13:28.759 --> 00:13:32.120
rights organizations condemned the verdict and the online harassment that
201
00:13:32.159 --> 00:13:35.559
had accompanied it. More than one hundred thirty groups signed
202
00:13:35.600 --> 00:13:38.759
an open letter arguing that the trial had demonstrated how
203
00:13:38.879 --> 00:13:43.879
defamation lawsuits could be weaponized to silence abuse survivors. Meanwhile,
204
00:13:44.159 --> 00:13:48.159
men's rights activists celebrated the verdict as vindication for men
205
00:13:48.200 --> 00:13:52.559
who claimed they were falsely accused of abuse. The trial
206
00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:55.679
became a rallying point for people who believed that the
207
00:13:55.720 --> 00:13:58.559
me Too movement had gone too far and that men
208
00:13:58.639 --> 00:14:02.360
needed protection from line ying women. You know what, this
209
00:14:02.519 --> 00:14:06.039
case really proved that in twenty twenty two, legal truth
210
00:14:06.120 --> 00:14:09.480
and social media truth are two completely different things, and
211
00:14:09.559 --> 00:14:13.519
the social media version is often more powerful. Johnny Depp
212
00:14:13.559 --> 00:14:15.679
lost his case in the UK with a judge who
213
00:14:15.720 --> 00:14:19.399
examined the evidence carefully and concluded that twelve of fourteen
214
00:14:19.399 --> 00:14:23.159
alleged abuse incidents had probably occurred, But he won in
215
00:14:23.240 --> 00:14:25.559
Virginia with a jury that had been exposed to seven
216
00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:29.360
weeks of pro depth social media content and memes, same evidence,
217
00:14:29.679 --> 00:14:34.679
same allegations, different audience different result. What's particularly brilliant about
218
00:14:34.720 --> 00:14:37.840
Dep's legal strategy is that his team understood they weren't
219
00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:40.919
just fighting a defamation case. They were fighting for control
220
00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:44.559
of the narrative. Every cross examination was designed to create
221
00:14:44.600 --> 00:14:48.679
shareable moments, Every legal argument was crafted with social media
222
00:14:48.759 --> 00:14:52.519
virality in mind. Herd's team, meanwhile, seemed to think they
223
00:14:52.519 --> 00:14:56.720
were actually in a courtroom arguing about legal standards and evidence.
224
00:14:57.159 --> 00:15:00.039
They treated it like a traditional trial instead of a
225
00:15:00.080 --> 00:15:05.639
seven week long pr campaign with legal consequences. The result
226
00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:10.000
was the most expensive rehabilitation of a celebrity reputation in history.
227
00:15:10.440 --> 00:15:13.639
Depp didn't just win his case, he won back his career,
228
00:15:13.879 --> 00:15:17.039
his public image, and his status as one of Hollywood's
229
00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:20.720
beloved figures. But here's what should concern all of us.
230
00:15:21.240 --> 00:15:23.919
If you have enough money, the right lawyers, and a
231
00:15:23.960 --> 00:15:28.960
coordinated social media strategy, you can apparently overcome almost any allegation,
232
00:15:29.399 --> 00:15:32.559
no matter how much evidence supports it. That's either a
233
00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:35.799
triumph of justice for falsely accused men, or it's a
234
00:15:35.879 --> 00:15:39.440
roadmap for how powerful people can destroy their accusers. And
235
00:15:39.519 --> 00:15:42.080
the scariest part is that we might not know which
236
00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:44.759
one it is until we see how this precedent gets
237
00:15:44.879 --> 00:15:49.840
used by the next wealthy person facing abuse allegations. Today,
238
00:15:49.960 --> 00:15:52.679
Johnny Depp is back in Hollywood, starring in new films
239
00:15:52.720 --> 00:15:55.639
and touring with his band. He recently called himself a