Charlie Kirk Case: The "95% DNA Match" Headline Is Wrong, Tyler Robinson's Hearing Ends Today, D4vd's Preliminary Date Set, and 16 Children

0:03 Caalaroga Shark Media. Good morning, you're listening to Daily Crime and Justice. I'm Garrett Fisher and it is Friday, July tenth, twenty twenty six. Here is where things stand this morning. In Provo, Utah, the preliminary hearing for Tyler Robinson reaches its final scheduled day. Judge Tony Graff will decide whether prosecutors have shown enough to send Robinson to trial for the aggravated murder of Charlie Kirk. In Los Angeles, the singer who records under the name D four VD, whose actual name is David Burke, finally has a preliminary hearing date in the killing of fourteen year old Celeste Revas Hernandez.

0:48 It is July twenty first. In Payette, Idaho, twenty three year old Andrea Shaw is asking a judge to cut her two million dollar bond so she can go home and nurse the newborn she delivered eleven days before she was arrested for allegedly suffocating her eighteen month old twins. And in Southeast Ohio, one of the four adults charged with endangering sixteen children found living in a twelve foot by twelve foot room has been released from custody on a signature four stories. Let's go. Look, I'm going to be honest with you. I read a headline this week that said an FBI analyst had revealed a ninety five percent DNA match between Tyler Robinson and the towel wrapped around the rifle that killed Charlie Kirk, ninety five percent stunning. The headline said a bombshell, And I want to walk you through why that headline is wrong, why the truth is far more damning for the defense than the headline suggests, and why it should bother you that almost nobody bothered to explain the difference. Because there is a version of this story where a number gets thrown around, everybody nods, and nobody actually understands what happened in that courtroom. That version is happening right now. You're not going to do that version. This is Daily Crime and Justice Story one. Tyler Robinson, Day two and day three.

2:09 We have been on this case since the day it happened, and we were with you on Wednesday when this hearing was still finding its footing. So let me catch you up fast, and then let's get into the part that matters. September tenth, twenty twenty five, Utah Valley University in Aurum. Charlie Kirk is thirty one years old. He is the co founder of Turning Point USA. He is a husband. He is the father of two small children, and he is doing what he always did, which is sitting under a tent in an open courtyard, arguing with strangers who came to argue with him. At twelve twenty three in the afternoon, a single shot is fired from the roof of a building called the low Cea Center. Charlie Kirk is struck in the neck. He is taken to the hospital and he dies there on Monday, Day one of this preliminary hearing. The medical examiner's findings went into the record manner of death homicide, immediate cause of death gunshot wound to the neck. I want to sit on that for a second, because for the better part of a year there has been a cottage industry of people online insisting that Charlie Kirk did not die the way three thousand witnesses and a dozen cameras say he died. Exploding microphones, stage footage, all of it Monday under oath. A doctor's report said gunshot wound to the neck, and the conspiracy economy will move on to the next thing because it always does. And none of the people who sold that theory will apologize to Charlie Kirk's widow, who sat in that courtroom on Monday and left the room when a former campus police officer began describing the shot. Erica Kirk was there. Charlie's parents,

3:42 Robert Kirk and Catherine Smith, were there. At one point during the second day, Erica Kirk reached forward and handed a tissue to a crying woman sitting in front of her. The family has been given permission by the court to come and go, so they can step out for the worst of it. Think about what that sentence means. There is a formal arrangement in place so that a widow can leave the room before she has to hear how her husband died. Again. Now, Tuesday, day two, the lead investigator, David Hall of the Utah State Bureau of Investigation, walked the courtroom through a compilation of campus surveillance video that the public had never seen. Prosecutors had to strip it down first because Judge Graff refused to admit a version with zooms and red circles drawn on it. Good if the video makes the point. The video makes the point, you don't need graphic design. Here is what Hull says. The video shows eight thirty in the morning, September tenth, a gray Dodge pulls into the campus parking garage. A young man gets out, dark red shirt, dark shorts, baseball cap, converse, sneakers, backpack.

4:48 He walks onto campus and speaks with staff from Turning Point USA. Not sure what about Hall didn't say. Then he goes back to the garage and drives away. After ten he is back on foot, same clothes, same backpack, and this is the detail that will follow this case forever. He walks into the Sorenson Student Center. He buys food at the Chick fil A and he sits down and eats it. Then he walks across campus into a wooded area. When he comes back out, according to Hull, he is no longer carrying the backpack. He moves through two buildings and over a railing that provides access to a roof. Then he retraces his steps and leaves campus by eleven.

5:31 He returns a third time near noon, different clothes now dark, long sleeved shirt, jeans, same converse sneakers, and Hull testified that in this footage, the man appears to be walking with a limp or exaggerating his gait as he passes the cameras he goes up onto the roof at twelve twenty three the shot. Seconds later, the same figure is walking back across that roof. He jumps down to the ground. He leaves campus on foot, carrying, in Hall's words, some kind of object in his hand, and the limp is gone. That is not a mistake. That is a choice. Somebody thought about the cameras. Somebody decided a limp was a good idea and then forgot to keep it. If the state has that timeline right, this was a person who planned the killing of another human being with enough care to fake a walk, and not enough care to fake it twice.

6:26 There is a fourth visit. In the early morning hours of September eleventh, while a manhunt was underway, an officer working security approached him. Hull called it cop intuition. The officer wrote down the license plate. Weeks and months of investigation later, that plate came back to Tyler Robinson, and that officer Scribble put Robinson on that campus on that night in his own car. Now here is the number. Utah Department of Public Safety agent Jennifer foul Mowena testified that investigators recovered a bolt action rifle in that wooded area wrapped up a towel on the roof of the low Ce Center, near what prosecutors have been calling the sniper's perch. They found a screwdriver.

7:07 The rifle went to the ATF The towel and the screwdriver went to the FBI lab in Virginia. That is where Amanda Backer works. She has been a forensic examiner there for more than ten years. She testified that her lab received evidence in this case on September eleventh, and that while DNA testing normally takes her lab one hundred and eighty to two hundred days, this case was given priority status and her staff worked around the clock. Backer testified that the DNA on the towel and on the screwdriver came from more than one person. On both items, testing initially identified three profiles. Two of them were identified. One was Tyler Robinson, the other was Lance Twiggs, Robinson's roommate at the time, and according to prosecutors, his romantic partner.

7:53 Backer testified that roughly ninety five percent of the contributing genetic material on one of those items came from a single source, and about five percent came from someone else. And that right there is where a national tabloid took the number ninety five percent, glued it to the words DNA match, and shipped it out as a bombshell. It is not a match statistic. It has nothing to do with how confident anyone is that the DNA is Robinson's. It is a mixture ratio. It describes how much of the biological material on that towel came from one person versus another person. It is a pie chart, not a probability. And here is the thing.

8:36 If the FBI had actually walked into that courtroom and said, we are ninety five percent confident this is Tyler Robinson, that would have been a catastrophe for the prosecution. Ninety five percent means one in twenty. There are more than three hundred thousand people in Utah County. A one in twenty certainty means you have just described roughly fifteen thousand suspects. No prosecutor on earth wants that number. What Backer actually gave the court was a likelihood ratio, and according to reporters in the courtroom, on one of those items, the testimony was that the results are roughly one point seven octillion times more likely if Twigs and Robinson are the contributors than if Twigs and some unknown unrelated person are the contributors. And octilian is a one with twenty seven zeros after it. There are not one point seven octillion people.

9:28 There have not been one point seven octillion human beings in the entire history of the species. There are not that many grains of sand on this planet. So the honest headline is not ninety five percent. The honest headline is a number so large it stops meaning anything to the human brain, which is exactly why nobody wrote it and exactly why somebody grabbed ninety five instead. Ninety five is a number you can put in a headline. Ninety five sounds like a grade. And now let me be equally honest in the other direction, be because that is the whole job. On cross examination, defense attorney Michael Bert went after Baker hard and he made a point that is not stupid. Baker acknowledged that the FBI's protocol is to avoid declaring an absolute identification from DNA. She acknowledged degradation on both items, more on the screwdriver than the towel.

10:22 She acknowledged that DNA can persist on an object for decades, which is another way of saying that DNA on a towel does not tell you when the DNA got there. Bert's summary was that she cannot match mister Robinson to the question samples. He is right that she cannot in the sense that no analyst says the word match under oath. And prosecutors objected repeatedly that all of this was beyond the scope of the hearing, and they are also right because this hearing is not about guilt. Judge Graff is deciding one question, and one question only. Is there probable cause to make Tyler Robinson's stand trial. That is a very low bar, it is supposed to be. But if you are Tyler Robinson's lawyer, you already know the octilion is coming for you at trial, and you are laying groundwork now that is not cynical. That is competent defense work, and he is entitled to it. Wednesday, Day three, State Bureau of Investigation Agent Brian Davis took the stand and testified that Lance Twiggs was interviewed twice and that Twiggs was granted immunity, meaning what he told investigators cannot be used against him. Robinson's lawyers spent most of Wednesday fighting to keep the video of that interview out of open court.

11:38 Prosecutors played footage of Robinson's standing in a room at the Washington County Sheriff's office the day after the shooting after he turned himself in. Reporters in the room noticed that Robinson, who has sat through most of this without visible reaction, including through the sound of the gunshot, became visibly uncomfortable when Davis began talking about the surrender, and that he took deep breath when Lance Twiggs's name came up. A few other things you should know. Judge Graff has already denied the defense's attempt to close this hearing to the press. He has denied their bid to halt the proceedings. He has kept the death penalty on the table, which the defense has now failed twice to remove. And in a detail that says something about how this case has been handled, Graff held one of the prosecutors, Christopher Ballard, in civil contempt for violating the court's gag order. Robinson is twenty three. He faces seven state charges. He has not entered a plea. The state is seeking his execution.

12:37 The hearing was. Scheduled to run Monday through Friday, which means that as you are listening to this, Judge Graff may be delivering his ruling, or may already have delivered it. We will bring it to you Monday. Charlie Kirk was thirty one years old. He should be arguing with a college kid under a tent somewhere this morning. He should be going home to his two children tonight. Somebody has to say his name. Charlie Kirk. Commercial break On Tuesday, David Anthony Burke, the twenty one year old musician who records under a stage name spelled D four VD and pronounced David, came back into a courtroom in an orange jail uniform. He was unshaven, his hair was longer. Court TV's reporter said he spoke exactly four words the entire hearing.

13:32 Good morning, your honor. He smiled at the judge, then sat slouched with his eyes on the bench. Regular listeners know this case cold, so I will not rebuild it from the studs. But if you are new this morning, here is the shape of it. Celeste Reevas Hernandez was fourteen years old. In September of twenty twenty five, workers at a Hollywood towyard noticed a smell coming from a Tesla. The car was registered to David Burke. Inside the trunk in a bag was Celeste's body. She had been dismembered. It happened right around what would have been her fifteenth birthday. Prosecutors say Burke met her in January of twenty twenty two, when she. Was eleven years old.

14:13 They say a sexual relationship began the next year, when she was thirteen and he was eighteen. She was reported missing in February of twenty twenty four. Prosecutors alleged she was killed in late April of twenty twenty five after an argument in which she threatened to reveal damaging information about their relationship, information they say she believed would end his career. He has pleaded not guilty to first degree murder, to continuous lewde and lascivious acts with a child under fourteen, and to mutilating human remains. He has been in custody since April seventeenth, and for two months this case has gone precisely nowhere. The preliminary hearing was originally set for May, It got pushed, then pushed again. Burke's defense told the court they had not received the DNA evidence and accused prosecutors of Prosecutors said they were producing it round and round.

15:05 Tuesday that ended, the defense told judge that they had now received a large volume of digital data. Prosecutors told the court they have handed over everything relevant to a preliminary hearing, and both sides confirmed the date July twenty first, eleven days from now. At that hearing, prosecutors are expected to lay out the purchases they say Burke made after Celeste died chainsaws, a shovel, a body bag, a burn cage, an inflatable pool. Prosecutors have said in filings that he dismembered her in that pool so that her blood would not spill onto his garage floor, and that investigators found small blue plastic fragments embedded in her remains. Her ring finger and her pinky finger were amputated. They have never been found. I want to be careful here. Those are prosecution allegations laid out in charging documents, and David Burke has pleaded not guilty to every count. He is entitled to the presumption of innocence and a preliminary hearing is not a trial. Nothing gets proven on July twenty first.

16:10 But I have watched this case for ten months now, and I have watched a fourteen year old girl's name get attached to a stage name, a streaming catalog, and a discovery dispute. There is a playbook for this delay. Delay complain about discovery delay. It is legal, it is often necessary. And it is also true that Celeste Reevas Hernandez has been dead for more than a year and has not gotten a single day of testimony in a public courtroom. On the twenty first, she gets won. Celeste Revas Hernandez was fourteen. She ran away from home when she was thirteen. She should be starting her sophomore year of high school in a few weeks. Someone has to say her name. Celeste Revas her Nandez. Story three, Dallas and Tyson. Payette, Idaho, is a town of about sex seven thousand people on the Oregon border. On May first, twenty twenty five, in a home in Payette, two eighteen month old twins were found dead in a bed they shared, a boy and a girl. Court records named them Dallas and Tyson. I am going to say those names a few times this morning, because when I read the coverage of this case, I found them referred to almost everywhere as ds and TS initials. That is standard practice in charging documents, and there are good reasons for it. But they were people eighteen months old. They had spent time in the nicu after they were born, which means somebody fought to keep them alive. At the very beginning. The

17:40 Payette Police Department said from the start that foul play was suspected and that they were treating the deaths as a homicide. Then they named nobody, and fourteen months went by. On June twenty ninth of this year, a Payette County grand jury handed up a two page indictment charging the twins' mother, twenty three year old Andrea Show, with two counts of first degree murder. It alleges that she suffocated both of her children. First degree murder in Idaho requires premeditation, and it carries the possibility of the death penalty, though prosecutors have not said whether they will seek it. Four witnesses testified to that grand jury. Three were Payette Police officers, the fourth was a pediatrician from the intensive care unit at Saint Luke's. Boise Police arrested Shaw on June thirtieth.

18:28 She was arraigned in Ada County, waived extradition, and was arraigned again in Payett County on July second. Bond was set at two million dollars. Now here's where it gets complicated, and I want to walk through it carefully, because this one is not simple, and anybody telling you it is simple is selling you something. In the days after her twins died, Andrea Shaw and her husband appeared on a podcast funded by Children's Health Defense that is an anti vaccine advocacy organization previously led by Robert F. Kennedy Junior, who is now the Secretary of Health and Human Services. On that podcast, Shaw said her twins were perfectly healthy until a wellness visit at their doctor on April twenty third, twenty twenty five, where they received the hepatitis A vaccine, the DTaP vaccine, and a flu shot. About a week later, she said she found them dead in their bed. Her attorney, Joseph Philichetti has repeated that theory publicly. He told a Boise station that he is not a doctor, but that the doctors he has consulted say this was a vaccine related death. He asked, reasonably enough, why a mother intending to kill her children would take.

19:40 Them to a doctor. So let me tell you what I know and what I do not know. What I do not know is the cause of death. It has never been publicly released, not by the coroner, not by the prosecutor, not in the indictment, which runs two pages and says the word suffocation and not much else. Everybody talking about this case, including me, is working with less information than the grand jury had. What I do know is this The hepatitis A vaccine, the DTaP vaccine, and the flu vaccine are among the most intensively studied medical products in human history. They have been given hundreds of millions of times. There is no established mechanism by which they cause otherwise healthy toddlers to die in their sleep a week later, and no medical examiner in this case or any other, has said that they do. That is not my opinion. That is the state of the evidence. When a defense attorney says that his own consultants call something a vaccine death.

20:41 That is a defense theory, and the words for a defense theory are defense theory. Explaining a theory is not endorsing it, and I want to be equally clear on the other side of that line, Andrea Shaw has not been convicted of anything. She maintains her innocence. A grand jury indictment is an accusation and only an accusation. Twelve people heard, three cops and a pediatrician, and nobody cross examined anybody, because that is not what a grand jury is for, which brings us to this week. On June twenty fifth, eleven months after she buried her twins and five days before her arrest, Andrea Shaw delivered another baby, a cesarean section three weeks premature. The infant spent a night in the NICU. Shaw was breastfeeding that child when officers took her into custody. This week, her attorney filed a motion asking Judge Kylie Stutchlik to cut her bond from two million dollars to what the motion calls a manageable amount, one hundred thousand. The motion argues that jail poses a real medical risk to a woman who has just had abdominal surgery, infection, hemorrhage. It argues that the newborn needs her breast milk, and it describes Andrea Shaw in a phrase that has now traveled across every crime feed in they as sweet and quiet. She keeps to herself.

22:04 She is not a threat to anyone. I want to name that for what it is. That is a sentence written by a defense attorney in a document whose entire purpose is to get his client out of a cell. It is a self serving statement. It is also his job, and he would be committing malpractice if he did not write it. The motion was filed with a request that it be sealed. Judge Stucklik denied that request and said the plain and correct thing, which is that the filing contained no specific private medical information that could not be shared, so we can all read it, including you. Here is what makes this. Hard, and I am not going to pretend otherwise everything in that motion could be true, and she could still have killed Dallas and Tyson. A woman can be quiet, a woman can be recovering from surgery, A newborn can need her. None of that is evidence about what happened in a bedroom in Payette on the first of May twenty twenty five, and a bond hearing is not the place where we find out the bond question goes back before Judge Stuschlick on July fourteenth. There is a newborn in this story who has done nothing to anybody and whose father is caring for him while all of this gets sorted out.

23:16 There is no clean answer here. There is no version of this where somebody walks out of that courtroom feeling good. Dallas and Tyson were eighteen months old. They shared a bed. They should be. Three years old this month, learning to run and refusing to nap. Nobody was paying attention to them for fourteen months. We will pay attention now. Sixteen children twelve by twelve. Hampden, Ohio, population under one thousand. Vinton County in the southeast corner of the state, in the Appalachian Foothills. It is the least populous county in Ohio. On June thirtieth, sheriff's deputies went to a house on Omer Street to serve court authorized search warrants. They were investigating allegations of domestic abuse and child neglect. Separately, there was a warrant out for one of the men who lived there on four publican decency counts stemming from incidents at that same address in May involving people who did not live in that household.

24:21 Nobody knew there were children in the house. There were sixteen. They ranged an age from about a year and a half to eighteen years old. Investigators had to wear masks to go inside. There were stacks of garbage some areas of the house agents could not physically reach. Ohio Attorney General Andy Wilson said the children looked like almost feral animals, and that they had limited ability to communicate, and that some of them could not communicate at all. Investigators believed that most of those sixteen children spent the last four years in an area of that house measuring roughly twelve feet by twelve feet twelve by twelve That is smaller than most beads. It is about the size of a single parking space and a half. Seven of the children were taken to hospitals in Columbus. At least two were flown by helicopter. Wilson said that in his judgment, if investigators had waited another twenty four hours, there was a high probability they would have been dealing with the death of a child or the deaths of children plural. Sheriff Ryan Kane said most livestock in that county is kept in better conditions. Four adults were arrested, Gary Siders Senior seventy three, his wife Christina, their son, Gary Siders Junior, thirty six, and Gary Junior's wife, Elizabeth Siders thirty three, the grandparents and the parents. Each of them was charged with sixteen counts of endangering children second degree felonies, one count for each child. They pleaded not guilty on July first.

25:53 Bond was set at three hundred thousand dollars apiece with orders barring contact with the children or with each other. On Tuesday, all four waived their preliminary hearings. Prosecutors say they intend to take the case to a grand jury convening this month now the part that made me put my coffee down. Prosecutors say the Ciders family has lived in multiple Ohio counties since two thousand and eight Gallia Jackson, Pike. There are possible ties to Wisconsin, and investigators believe that in all that time, across all those counties, this family successfully avoided establishing medical records and government records, the children were not enrolled in school. Neighbors on Omer Street told reporters they had never seen a child in that yard.

26:37 One of them said the house seemed abandoned. Eighteen years, sixteen children, not one school registration, not one pediatrician, not one caseworker. In a county of thirteen thousand people, where everybody knows everybody, sixteen children lived and grew, and according to the state suffered, and the system that exists specifically to notice children did not notice them. Nobody would paying attention to them for a decade and a half. And then there is what happened Tuesday afternoon. Gary Sider Senior, the seventy three year old, fell while deputies were transporting him from the jail to court. He was taken to a hospital in Athens. Doctors found what the prosecutor calls a serious medical condition and said he needs specialized care at a larger facility outside the county. Because he was in county custody, Vinton County would have been on the hook for the bill, So Vinton County Prosecutor William Archer went before Judge Lana Rodgers and agreed to convert Gary Sider senior's three hundred thousand dollars cash bond into a recognizance bond, a signature, no money, he walks. Archer's explanation was direct, and I want you to hear it exactly as he said it. He said the medical care could potentially bankrupt Vinton County. He said they were not going to put that burden on local taxpayers. He said the community is not at risk because of this bond. Ifers ever leaves that hospital. He wears a GPS monitor. I've gone back and forth on this all week, and I have landed somewhere that surprised me.

28:07 So stay with me. This is not a scandal. This is not a prosecutor going soft. William Archer looked at a seventy three year old man who is presumed innocent, who has not been convicted of anything, who needs a hospital, And he looked at the budget of the poorest county in Ohio, and he understood that a three hundred thousand dollars bond means absolutely nothing if the county cannot afford to keep the man it is holding. He made the call, He said it out loud in public, with his name on it, and he took the incoming. What this is is a picture of what it costs to prosecute a case like this in a place like this. Sixteen children in hospitals for defendants, a grand jury that convenes maybe every other month, because Vinton County is not Franklin County, where they seek grand juries practically every day. An Attorney General's office that has stepped into assist because, in Wilson's own careful phrasing, this is a significant case that strains local resources. Strains local resources. That is the polite version. The real version is that the county where these children were hidden for four years does not have the money to hold the men accused of hiding them.

29:17 There is more. Gary Siders Senior's attorney, Dorian Baum, filed a motion Wednesday asking for a competency evaluation. Bam wrote that his client showed significant confusion about the legal process, could not describe the roles of the people in the courtroom, and was unable to describe basic facts about himself. Baum has said publicly that he is considering a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity. Those are real questions, and a court has to answer them before this case goes anywhere, and I am not going to sneer at them from a microphone. And then there is Elizabeth Siders, thirty three years old. She married into this family as a teenager.

29:59 A relative told reporters she came from a difficult home and, in his word, escaped into the Cider's household. Her attorney, Tommy Stally, says she is believed to be the biological mother of all sixteen children, all sixteen. Stolly told reporters that at this point his office is still not sure whether his client is a victim herself sit with that sentence. Elizabeth Siders has filed her own motion, asking the judge to lower her bond. In it, she says she wants to be reunited with her children and that she does not have three hundred thousand dollars. Two things are true at once, and I am not going to pretend otherwise. Coercion is real. Women are trapped inside families like this, and the law has spent decades slowly learning to see it.

30:45 And also, sixteen children were in a twelve x twelve room, and a court is going to have to decide who put them there and who kept them there. And being afraid of your husband is not by itself a legal defense to sixteen camps of endangering children. That is what a trial is for. That is what the grand jury is for. All four of. These people have pleaded not guilty, and every one of them is entitled to the presumption of innocence, including the seventy three year old man in a hospital bed with a monitor on his ankle. But the children don't need a verdict to have been failed. That already happened. Sixteen kids, one room, four years, no records, no school, no doctor.

31:29 Somebody drove past that house every single day. Accountability doesn't have a legal department, and it doesn't have a county budget either. It just has whoever decides to look. That is daily crime Injustice for Friday, July tenth, twenty twenty six. In provo, a judge may rule today on whether Tyler Robinson stands trial for aggravated murder. The state says a rifle, a towel, and a screwdriver carry his DNA at odds. No human mind can hold his lawyers. An FBI analyst cannot say the word match. Both of those things are true. And only one of them will matter in the end. Charlie Kirk was thirty one in Los Angeles. David Burke has eleven days until a courtroom finally hears the evidence out loud. Celeste Revas Hernandez was fourteen in Payet, Idaho.

32:20 Andrea Shaw goes back before a judge on the fourteenth, presumed innocent, asking to go home to a newborn Dallas and Tyson were eighteen months old and they shared a bed and they are not initials. And in Vinton County, Ohio, sixteen children are in hospital beds and foster placements and safe rooms for the first time in their lives, and four adults are presumed innocent, and one of them is out on a signature because the county could not afford to keep him. Those kids do not have names in this broadcast because the law protects them, and thank God for that. But they have names. If today's show gave you something you did not have this morning, and I hope the DNA segment and did share it, tell one person send it to the friend who saw the ninety five percent headline and did not know what to do with it. Word of mouth is the entire reason this show exists, and it is the only reason cases like Dallas and Tyson's ever get looked at twice And if you are listening on Spotify, drop a comment. Tell me which of these four you want us to stay on, because we will we read everyone.

33:26 I'm Garrett Fisher. This has been Daily Crime and Justice from Calaroga Shark Media. We're back Monday with the ruling from provo. Until tomorrow, do better. The following is the legal disclaimer for this episode. Every person discussed in today's program who has been charged with a crime is presumed innocent unless and until proven guilty in a court of law. Tyler Robinson has not entered a plea to the seven state charges against him, including aggravated murder in the death of Charlie Kirk. The preliminary hearing described in this episode determines only whether probable cause exists to proceed to trial. It does not determine guilt. All testimony described here is as reported by journalists president in the courtroom. Some outlets, including The Daily Mail, characterize the FBI testimony as a ninety five percent DNA match. Court reporting from multiple outlets indicates that figure described the proportion of genetic material attributable to one contributor in a mixed sample, not a probability of identification. Outlets have differed on the model of Robinson's vehicle, variously reported as a Dodge Challenger and a Dodge Charger, and on the agency employing lead investigator David Hall, identified by most outlets as the Utah State Bureau of Investigation.

34:44 The likelihood ratio figures. Cited come from courtroom reporting and have not been independently verified against the exhibit. Judge Tony Graff's ruling had not been issued at the time this episode was recorded. David Anthony Burke, who records under the stage name spelled D four VD, has pleaded not guilty to first degree murder, continuous lewde and lascivious acts with a child under fourteen, and mutilating human remains in the death of Celeste Revas Hernandez. The purchases, the dismemberment, and the alleged motive described in this episode are allegations contained in prosecution filings and have not been proven a trial. His preliminary hearing is scheduled for July twenty first, twenty twenty six. Andrea Shaw has been indicted by a Payet County grand jury on two counts of first degree murder and maintains her innocence. A grand jury indictment is an accusation, not a finding of guilt.

35:39 The cause of death of Dallas and Tyson has not been publicly released. Reports of the date of their deaths have varied. Police records indicate the children were found on May first, twenty twenty five, while some coverage sites may fifth. The claim that the twins died as a result of routine childhood vaccinations is a theory advanced by the defense and by an advocacy organization, and it is not supported by the scientific evidence or by any published finding of a medical examiner. Characterizations of Shaw contained in her bond motion are statements made by her attorney on her behalf and are self serving by nature. The bond question is scheduled to be heard July fourteenth, twenty twenty six. Gary Sider Senior, Christina Siders, Gary Siders Junior, and Elizabeth Siders have each pleaded not guilty to sixteen counts of endangering children. No homicide charge has been filed against any of them. Statements by the Ohio Attorney General and the Vinton County Sheriff describing conditions in the home are characterizations by law enforcement made before any trial. Gary Sider Senior's competency has not been determined by a court. The assertion that Elizabethsiders may herself be a victim is a statement by her defense counsel and has not been established. Separate public and decency charges against Garyrry Siders Junior are unrelated to the child endangering counts and remain unproven.

37:05 A grand jury. Has not yet returned an indictment in the case. This episode draws on court TV reporting, the daily mail wire, and broadcast coverage from the associated Press, Fox News, KUTV, KUER, ABC four, ktvb Idaho News, WOUB wowk NBC four Columbus, WSAZ, and ten TV, and on publicly filed court records. We do our best to get it right. When we get it wrong, we correct it on air. Everything here is opinion and interpretation, offered as commentary, not as legal fact. Today's episode discusses the deaths of children and the abuse of children. If you suspect a child is being abused or neglected, the Child Help National Child Abuse Hotline is available twenty four hours a day at one eight hundred four two two four four, five, three,