Day 203: I Still Choose to Show Up

Kristen
00:03
I am Kristen Vengler and our mission with this podcast is to help you, and the people who love you, through the shock of diagnosis and treatment. 
Eva
00:11
I am Eva Sheie, and the incredible woman whose story you're about to hear is a nurse practitioner in San Francisco who has dedicated her life to caring for patients  more vulnerable than you can imagine. 
Kristen
00:23
Her name is Natasha. This is a story about what happens when you have breast cancer told in real time.
Natasha
00:34
The short story that we can elaborate on was I met with my radiation oncologist today, who I really like. And she had her NP with her and, you know, they looked, and I am doing fine because I have only had six treatments at this point.  And, they're  like "How you doing?" I'm like, "Oh, I'm. I'm fine". And they're like, "No, how are you doing?"  And I lost it. And it's the first time, and out came the tissues. And they kind of triggered it. I was like, "When am I going to feel close to normal again?"
Kristen
01:06
Yeah. 
Natasha
01:06
I said, "I know I am not going to bounce back. I haven't bounced back from any of this shit, but give me". And they're like, "Honestly not this year".
Kristen
01:16
<Gasp>
Natasha
01:16
And I was just like, ugh, yeah. You know, and I get that because I don't stop radiation until the beginning of October. And then they brought up, you know, a lot of the issues like, "You're way underweight. We have made a referral to nutrition. We want you to see the psycho-oncology or something. Like have you ever taken an antidepressant?" I'm like, "Yeah I'm on an antidepressant. She's like "Well it's clearly not working. So we want you to see Psychiatry as well", and I was like... And in a way I felt like, oh, finally somebody's like, getting all these pieces and putting them together. But it just made me feel like, "Is there any bit of me that's not broken at this point?" It was like, so it was like "Thank you for seeing all this." And it was, you know, they were great, they were like, "This is not a personality, like your you haven't become a bad lazy person. We have done this to you", in a way kind of.
Kristen
02:13
Yeah.
Natasha
02:17
 What's amazing about UCSF, I mean, the longer I am with them, I am so happy because they have a psycho oncologist.
Kristen
02:17
Oh, nice.
Natasha
02:25
It's like a psychologist who decided to specialize in oncology. I don't know what that means. And they signed me up with him right at the beginning. And I had like a two-minute conversation with the guy and said,  "I'm fine. I don't, like, I don't need to see you." And he's like, "Okay, you might a little bit later, so let me know." And today they were like, "Yeah, we're getting you back in with him".
Kristen
02:45
Yeah.  
Natasha
02:45
Just, the whole like, you know, the whole self-care thing has definitely been slipping. You know, it's no great surprise. But I just, yeah, it's funny: Like radiation is so benign. You just kind of lie there and there's not even a noise with mine. There's not even warmth. There's  not even a beam that I can look at. 
Kristen
03:09
Oh, there's not like a green beam that comes down? And there's no like <machine noise>. None of that?
Natasha
03:16
No, no. So I have, you know, it's like they're doing their stuff on the right-hand side, they want my head tilted to the left, so every now and then I like squint my eyes, so I can see, but there's really nothing. Like, I don't know when it's finished. I don't know when it started. I know nothing. So we had to skip Friday because they were updating their software. So when I went in yesterday, this like all the Reps for the new software are still there, like I have never had so many strangers look at my boobs in the space of 20 minutes. It's like they're all, oh my Lord.
Kristen
03:50
Right?
Natasha
03:51
So just to sort of back up a bit because I know you and I have talked but I haven't talked officially on the podcast. So it was really nice when I met with them, for this sort of the Preamble. They gave me a choice of gowns. So we have our own individual gowns that you choose. There's a choice of three. And it's a sort of silky kind of like a ny, not nylon, that sounds disgusting, but it's not silk, obviously. But it's 
Kristen
04:16
Ah, faux silk, kinda? 
Natasha
04:16
Right. So it's not cotton. So you don't feel like you're sweating in it. And, you know, I mean, they're very frumpy, and they're made for all sizes. So they're big on me, but then the way they have done it. So it has like a v-neck and then a wraparound thing. So you don't have to take your bottom clothes off at all. And what's really nice is basically, you know, you can walk around in these, your back's not open. And you feel like you have had some say in it because you have chosen it.  Like I look at the other women and I wish I had chosen another one but mine's like blue and floral. And but what's nice is that because of the bigness of it, you can wear it around.  Then when you sit on the table, you can just slip your arms out and it's there. And it's nice, like, it feels: I don't know why it feels different. Like somebody must have done some research. I mean, I think for them, it's one less thing that they're having to wash, which might be something to do with it. But I think it's like giving you a sense of agency. Like there was this woman today, who'd obviously lost her hair through chemo, and she had chosen like, basically, kind of like the cougar version of this, like it's a leopard skinny thing. 
Kristen
05:18
I love it. 
Natasha
05:18
And she's dyed her hair blonde over the little bit of hair that's come in. And she's got this like kind of leopard, cougar hair dye. She looked fabulous. Absolutely fabulous.
Kristen
05:44
That's amazing.
Natasha
05:45
So, you know, you get there, and you go in and, again, they have got good music playing, and it's nice people, and they know you. And, you know, I heard somebody before me, it's like, "Oh," you know, "Cynthia it's your last day. Congratulations." Like so it's a little bit more personal.
Kristen
06:02
Yeah. So you know, you're talking about the research, you know, and about the gown and stuff. I thought I was like some freak because I didn't want to put the gown on. Because everybody else in the gown room was in a gown and you could tell, you know who is going for what kind of.  Right?
Natasha
06:20
Yeah.
Kristen
06:20
Do you see that? Are you in a room with?  
Natasha
06:21
Well, so the hospital is so huge that radiation oncology has like a massive wing of its own. So basically, you know, you come in the front door, and they recognize me already and they're like, "Curry, you're checked in." So you don't sit and wait, you just go right into the back, you get changed and then you sit in like, a sort of side room, and they come and get you.
Kristen
06:45
That's what I call the gown room was the side room.
Natasha
06:47
Yeah, and pretty much everybody there, like all the women are in these gowns. So it's like, we're all, we're all breast cancer patients. It's like, you know, except when you go in the room and these, there's these like intense, looking like, full body frames and head frames, so I'm  just like, 
Kristen
06:57
Oh, crazy, right? It's like a fencing outfit, kind of, almost?
Natasha
07:10
Yes.
Kristen
07:12
Yeah, right.
Natasha
07:13
Yeah. And we know that breast cancer loves to metastasize to the brain. So I am looking at some of these and just like whoa. Yeah, that's a great term, the fencing outfits. And one today almost came down like it was a head and almost like a body and like, oh man, that looks really freaking intense.
Kristen
07:31
Yeah, yeah.
Natasha
07:32
And so it's, you know, there's a sort of flippancy from everybody because it doesn't hurt and it's pretty quick. Mine's about 10, maybe 15 minutes. Like I said, I am never entirely sure when it starts. I know when it finishes because they come bouncing in like, "okay, see you tomorrow". And so because I skipped Friday because they were getting the software update, on Thursday I thought I looked like I was getting a bit of sunburn like between the boob sunburn and then that disappeared. And they just want me to use one cream, the calendula cream. And they're like, "don't use anything else that any of your friends gave you, like you read online. You should, please just stick with the program". Okay. So they also have this thing that they call mepilex. I don't know if anybody ever,
Kristen
08:20
Oh, yeah. I loved the mepilex. Oh, that saved me my last two weeks. 
Natasha
08:26
Hmm. So what happens to me is, so they put it on at the beginning, and the under arm mepilex, I rubbed that off within like about a day and a half. That really didn't work. And then on about day three, one of the technician nurses was like,  "I think the way they have put on the mepilex is pulling your boob a certain way because we're missing the tattoos. And I am not comfortable with this". So she took it off, and I was like, "I am fine".
Kristen
08:57
How big is it?
Natasha
08:59
Oh, it's like 6 inches by 4. It's huge.
Kristen
09:03
Oh, okay.
Natasha
09:03
It covers the whole boob.
Kristen
09:05
Okay. 
Natasha
09:05
And so today they put another mepilex on, and when I went in for treatment the nurse was like, "Nope. They're pulling your boob in a certain way and like everything's off from the measurement." And I was like, "You know, I am fine without the mepilex at this point". Because for me, the mepilex made putting the creams on hard, more difficult.
Kristen
09:28
Right.
Natasha
09:29
You know, and I am still relatively unscathed, but I can feel under my arms: So they added another cream today, mometasone, if that rings a bell? Because they said, I have some swelling left over from surgery.
Kristen
09:42
Okay.
Natasha
09:43
Well, they're like you have got some fullness left over from surgery, and I was thinking, "okay, I don't like the sound of that". So. 
Kristen
09:48
Okay.
Natasha
09:50
And then it was interesting talking to Dr. Singer, who's the radiation oncologist? She was going over some of the side effects, and I was like, "Yeah, I am tired, but I can't figure out, like, you know, I have kind of been tired the whole time". And that's when this discussion about maybe seeing one of the psychologists came up. And I was like, "But I also have some nausea. I am not, I don't know if that's related to radiation, or if that's just like my body, tells my stress and anxiety. So, rather than crying into the pillow, I get weird physical".
Kristen
10:26
Sure.
Natasha
10:27
But it was interesting. She said, "You know, we're actually touching the tip of your liver with the radiation". She's like, "So that makes sense that you would have some nausea from that. So take the Zofran about half an hour before you come for treatment". And I love getting advice like that because that would have never crossed my mind.
Kristen
10:46
 Right.
Natasha
10:47
So that made a lot of sense. I was like, "Okay, that's, we will try that tomorrow". I mean, the nice thing about getting treatment every day is you can try something, and you know, we will try it tomorrow. And then, you know, again, she's like, "Do you think you're keeping well hydrated?" And I was like, "No, probably not. Like not enough". She says looking at half a glass of wine.
Kristen
11:06
Do you find yourself really thirsty, some days afterward?
Natasha
11:09
I am not sure, because I sort of, I have this, you know, I have this thing: Like I am always hungry, and I am probably always thirsty and I always need to pee, but I don't often respond in the right time.
Kristen
11:15
Right. 
Natasha
11:24
You know, and I think some of its being a bedside nurse. Like for four or five years, I ran around and I could hold my bladder. I mean, I will go out with friends, and they will be like, "You haven't peed for hours". I'm like, "Oh I need to pee".
Kristen
11:37
People would say the same thing. I'm like, "I have to hold it for 55 minutes at a time and sometimes maybe four sessions of that. So, yeah. Well, so, just so, you know, the audience knows where we are with your radiation. This is your second week, right? It is. So we skipped Friday, because like I said, they were getting a software update or something. So, I have actually only had six treatments. 
Natasha
11:58
Okay. Okay. And did they tell you they're going to tag it on to the back? 
Kristen
12:05
Yep. And then there was a discussion about a boost, which I have read about and I didn't really delve into the questions, like my questions I have about this. And I may do it next time I see her, because she said, "We're having a hard time finding the cavity". And I assumed, I wasn't sure if that's the cavity in my breast where they took the tumor out or if it's in my armpit where they took the lymph nodes out. So she said, "We don't feel that we can do a boost, so we will just do one more treatment".
Kristen
12:31
Interesting.
Natasha
12:38
Okay. Like you're the nuclear physicists, not me. So I have got all of this week ,all of next week, and then the Monday, Tuesday of the following week.
Kristen
12:48
Okay. So basically, you are getting 15 treatments, so the three weeks, and then they added the extra.
Natasha
12:53
Yeah.
Kristen
12:54
Okay.
Natasha
12:54
Which is so odd that one extra treatment is even worth all the hassle. But, I don't really understand. This is the modality of treatment I understand the least. 
Kristen
13:03
Right.
Natasha
13:03
To me, I responded so well to chemo that I don't understand how little cells can still be around, like the micro metastasis, after the chemo. It's baffling to me. And I had this thing, this kind of thing on Friday about, maybe it's just a big conspiracy theory, and there's nothing to it. They just lie you on the table.
Kristen
13:26
And charge your insurance? <laugh> 
Natasha
13:26
And charge. Because I got a bill, not that I have to pay, but I got a breakdown of the costs. Oh my God.
Kristen
13:39
Oh my God.
Natasha
13:40
Do you remember that weird, like sticky thing that I had to give me the neulasta?   
Kristen
13:46
Yeah. 
Natasha
13:46
That thing that they stick on your arm? 
Kristen
13:49
Yeah.
Natasha
13:50
Thirty-three thousand dollars.
Kristen
13:53
Yes. Because I had the neulasta and I had it on my stomach. Mine was only seventeen.
Natasha
13:56
Ah, things are cheap in San Diego.
Kristen
14:01
Maybe I got the used one. 
Natasha
14:01
Thirty-three thousand dollars. And I had it six times. 
Kristen
14:01
Okay. So you know that if you don't have that, you can just go back the next day and get a shot.
Natasha
14:14
Hm-mmm
Kristen
14:14
Okay. So that's all it is, right?
Natasha
14:17
Hm-mmm
Kristen
14:17
I remember I was telling the infusion nurse, I said, "Oh my gosh. I just saw my EOB. Do you know how much these are?" She's like, "I have been dying to know." <laugh>  And I told her and she's like, "<Gasp> And you could just come tomorrow and have a shot". I said, "How much is the shot?"  She goes, "Max $100".
Natasha
14:38
<Gasp> Oh, wow. 
Kristen
14:38
Wow. I know. 
Natasha
14:38
Well, I mean my surgery was about a hundred and twenty thousand dollars. It was an hour and a half.
Kristen
14:45
Yeah.
Natasha
14:46
Right. 
Kristen
14:47
But you, they didn't find any cancer for you? 
Natasha
14:47
So they didn't. But one of the things that I was told was when they did the original fine needle aspiration biopsy: So they go in you with a needle, and they pull out cancer cells. They can do what's called seeding. So they can drag cancer cells back as the needle comes out. So that wouldn't have shown up in the surgery because they're not looking at lumps, but that can be, they can seed the track where they pull out the needle.
Kristen
15:24
Wow! Well, so the only way I could tangibly think of it is that a friend of mine was talking about having endometriosis. And a friend of hers had a situation where the endometriosis started growing on her scar, because endometrial cells, something got caught right there where the incision was. And you know, when we had the interview with Dr. Pacella and what Eva and I's, like our jaw was dropping, because it was two separate surgeries. They were talking about how my surgeon did his thing, and then they close up the incision, they remove everything having to do with that. There is actually a separate table that they put you on. 
Natasha
16:07
That's right.
Kristen
16:09
And they re-drape you and everything because he said, I don't want anything having to do with his surgery in mine. And I was like, I thought that was fascinating.
Natasha
16:20
So if you remember from the last time we met, they gave me these three options. It was we just do the breast, breast and underarm, or we include the lymph nodes above your collarbone. And we do a whole, like a much wider area, and the risk is like you may have a hard time swallowing. And I was like, "Okay, at that point you have sold, like no. Thank you very much". So that would have been the full six weeks. If I had just done the breast I think it would have been shortest. And breast and lymph nodes under arm leads me to this three and a half weeks. And I have no regrets at this point. It's a little strange to go somewhere every day, and there's that like, I'm riding my moped, so I am looking for parking and you go in and this, and they know you, but it's more manageable than it feels when they suggest it. Like I was thinking today, as I was going in there, even if this were for six weeks, I would still be able to do it somehow. It's like, it's the 12-step thing. It's like one day at a time. 
Kristen
17:23
It really. Is it really is.
Natasha
17:27
I mean that, you know, because of the distance, like it takes an hour and a half, the whole thing, even if I am at work and I, you know, I haven't been going into work that much because I don't have a ton to do. And my new director is super understanding. She's like, "If you, if you can work from home, work from home". You know and today I slept super late, and I caught myself  in like, this is the feeling sorry for yourself behavior.
Kristen
17:50
It's okay though, you know? 
Natasha
17:51
I guess I know. Yeah.
Kristen
17:56
If I was your palliative care giver and we were talking, what would you tell me if you knew you felt this way?
Natasha
18:07
I think I would check in with you if it feels okay doing that, and if it does, do it. What happens to me is, it doesn't feel okay. When I am not getting out of bed, and getting on with the day, and having a healthy breakfast, and walk-in the dog, I feel like I have given into the cancer in a way. And I am not getting into, "like it's a fight". It's not that, it's more of like, 
Kristen
18:24
The mental strength.  
Natasha
18:24
The mental strength and also going back to how unbelievably lucky I am with the stage I have, with the health that I have, still through this. I mean, the fact that, "I have got a bit of nausea, and I am a little bit tired", and it's like, come on.
Kristen
18:54
 Oh, I know. But you know what? You went through chemo, you're still having infusions. And I think we have talked about this, I know I mentioned on the podcast and I thought for sure: "Oh, I am. Look at me. I am handling this. I am crying when I need to. I am sad when I need to. Look at me, I got this". And then I went on my treatments were over, I was a basket case. I think it was that I thought I was just going to do these things, and then I would be fine, and then I would move on. And it's just not that easy, it wasn't that easy for me. 
Natasha
19:19
Right. And I think for me it's very tied up with my separation, with being in Malawi. I mean, there's a way that when you work with Doctors Without Borders and you're leaving a project, they help you wrap it up, and acknowledge that you weren't able to do all the things, you bright-eyed and bushy-tailed, thought you could do coming into the field. And they help you sort of get back into, you know, not being a complete pain in the ass when you get home. Because a lot of people are, it's like, "Oh, you're complaining about the milk's gone off? Like, you should see what I saw in Africa", you know, it's like. And all of that got curtailed because my separation got initiated while I was in Africa. So I didn't get to wrap up, Malawi. I came back and it was like, I wasn't processing Malawi, I wasn't processing my separation and then I got my diagnosis and it's all like, they're not the same, but they have all become in the same pot for me. We have talked offline, but it was very sweet that somehow Doctors Without Borders found this podcast.
Kristen
20:46
Yeah, I think that's amazing.
Natasha
20:48
Who knows how? Like the Communications Department is remarkable because, maybe they get a trigger or if Doctors Without Borders gets mentioned, or somebody is going through cancer treatment and, I don't know. And what was really sweet was they initially asked if they could share it with other people with Doctors Without Borders. And it's like, "It's a public podcast".  Like right from the beginning, I have been very open, I have no shame about this. And then, you know, a group from human resources and more sort of the "officey" people, they sent me a card saying, "We hope you're doing well". And they have only heard the first two or three episodes.  
Kristen
21:18
Oh. Wait till they get into it.
Natasha
21:27
I know. So I actually emailed like the head of human resources and I said, "Spoiler alert. I am actually doing really well, and expect to see me in March looking for another placement somewhere".
Kristen
21:39
Wow. 
Natasha
21:39
You know, it's like, so yeah, that was a really nice, really unexpected side effect of doing this.
Kristen
21:49
You know what, I am realizing when you're talking about the way that they kind of transition you out of Malawi, that there are no transitions in cancer.  
Natasha
21:49
Right.
Kristen
21:59
It's just like, here's your diagnosis, here's a treatment plan, but that to me is like, the piece that's missing.
Natasha
22:08
It's also interesting to me, how there is so many different doctors involved. My oncologist, I haven't seen her for months. I mean, she's in charge of this whole thing, but now I have a radiation oncologist. I had a plastic surgeon for a hot second. You know, I had a breast surgeon. And I know they work as a team because I know how the hospital works, but it would be really nice to have actually met them all at once at a beginning meeting of like, this is what's going to happen from here.
Kristen
22:41
Yeah. agree. 
Natasha
22:42
And the crazy thing is, I am getting letters in the mail from UCSF saying. "Hi Natasha. It must be time for your mammogram. You haven't had a mammogram from",  I am just like, could somebody please look at, I mean, I don't know if it would make a difference if I did anything from this. But it's like, have a little bit of sense.  Like open my chart, somebody. Oh, and also don't get me started about mammograms. <laugh>
Kristen
23:10
No, you know what? I am not ever having a mammogram again, y'all are gonna give me MRIs every year.
Natasha
23:15
Yeah, it would be interesting to do a story of somebody who has kids and a husband who are taking care of them.
Kristen
23:24
Yes.
Natasha
23:24
Like I'd love to know how about, what that's like? Because I have a mixed emotion every time, and it's almost every time I go to the hospital they'll say, "Did somebody come with you?" And every single time I have said, "No, I am here alone". And there's a pride to that, but there's also kind of deep sadness. And it's tipping more to being like, "Nope. It's me. And I have got through this mostly on my own". I mean, you're the same. It's like, they were asking me today,  it's like, you know, "Why do you think you have lost so much weight?" And I was like, "Well, if I am not feeling well, either physically or emotionally, nobody's cooking dinner for me downstairs".  
Kristen
24:04
Right. You know it's interesting because there's a friend of mine that I went to high school with and I said she has a stage three, and she had a full mastectomy. She's like a combo of us but hers is her2 positive. But she has a high school, if not college-age, son and husband. And I remember when she got her bandages off, she said "I haven't looked, but my husband's looked, and he empties the drains." And I was like, "Huh, what is that like?" I think it would be interesting to get somebody who had that support. And also somebody who was like in a business where, like, you and I have, how do you say it service professions. They're professions, but they're in a different realm than a nine-to-five. 
Natasha
24:49
Right? And also, you know, my staff meeting on Thursday, there's a check in with the group, and I'm like, "And by the way I have to leave 15 minutes early to go to radiation. And everyone's like "eh", because it's healthcare. I am not leading a team that's running Wells Fargo's strategy department or something. It's like of course I am going to go. 
Kristen
25:19
And you and I haven't had to worry about losing our job because of it. 
Natasha
25:26
And I have been able to be, I mean not super vulnerable at work, but I have been very open with everybody at work and, um. You know, and I get a little bit of the sideways look, but mostly people are like "Good for you. How you doing? Oh, you had...", I mean, we speak the same language. "You had like, oh, how many rounds of taxotere are you getting? Ah, that's great". You know, it's like, I mean, I think of one of my best friend's who's like a senior VP at Wells, Fargo. I don't know how the hell she would. 
Kristen
25:53
That's just it. Yeah, I was talking to uh, oh it was Dana from AnaOno, and we were talking about hers, and she was a fashion designer at the time. And, you know, the whole reason she did AnaOno was because there was nothing out there for women to wear. But she said it was horrible because "I had these bras that didn't fit, everything was uncomfortable and I had to get dressed and go to meetings". And I was thinking, oh my gosh, you know, I can wear t-shirts and leggings and no makeup, and I was playing with a baby. And so, that's something that I can't imagine is doing that piece like having that professional life that you had to do. Like I don't know how I would have taught. I would have had to take a leave and I would have had to definitely take a leave all the way for almost a year.
Natasha
26:46
Yeah. And I was lucky enough to be able to take, I don't know how long it was like four or five months off. And also go back on a very reduced schedule.
Kristen
26:56
That was phenomenal, how you got to transition back in.
Natasha
26:59
Yeah, yeah.
Kristen
27:00
To go back to kind of the beginning and the emotion stuff too, is really does take a while for your body to build back up and part of that is, I think that you're feeling tired, too. And so your emotions are probably closer to the surface. And I think that like you were saying, you didn't get a chance really to transition, or grieve, adjust to leaving Malawi, or your divorce.
Natasha
27:15
Or, exactly.
Kristen
27:27
Because your, literally your divorce was final while you were in chemo, right?
Natasha
27:32
No. It's still not finalized. I mean, I got, we ended things in about September.
Kristen
27:41
Okay.
Natasha
27:42
I knew I had a lump by October. I was kind of doing okay, I went home for Christmas back to England, but I was well, aware that there was something under my armpit, and second week in January, you know, I have got my diagnosis. So yeah, there was no. So everything's really, really tied up with each other. It's like, I have been having, it's been a few weeks of real, kind of sadness and nostalgia and, you know, missing my ex even though he's happy, and he might think of me every now and then, but he's not pining for the life he had. And I know that I am pining for the life I had because the life I had didn't involve cancer.
Kristen
28:24
Well there you go.
Natasha
28:25
It's not necessarily the life that I had with him, because we had struggles for years, but it's like it's the life before I had like an angry red scar under my boob, and kind of chronic nausea, and weighing 103 pounds. And yeah it's bad.
Kristen
28:44
I think it's not only kind of grieving your old life, but I think it's also welcoming in who you are.
Natasha
28:44
Mm-Hmm. And I have talked about this, just as the pandemic started that March, I got my certificate as a yoga teacher. I was in the best shape of my life. Then covid, came. Zoom yoga didn't work for me, none of that stuff worked for me. I sat around the house for a year, did knitting, baked bread, did all the cliches from covid, went to Malawi, ate rice three meals a day, got super pudgy, got divorced, came back, got cancer. It's like now I weigh 103 pounds. <laugh>
Kristen
29:25
Yeah. I love that you just said you got pudgy. Your pudgy was probably what, 130? 
Natasha
29:30
You know, you eat rice three times a day, you're gonna get... it's not the healthiest thing. Like Doctors Without Borders is like, "You can't walk in the streets, it's dangerous". I am like, "Really?', so I walk in the streets. It's not dangerous but I did get in trouble. So I am just like, "Okay put me in a car". 
Kristen
29:40
Right. So your activity level is different, like everything. 
Natasha
29:45
My activity level was walking from my little house on the compound, up to the kitchen to get more rice. <laugh> But I had a butt. For the first time in my life I had a butt, it was so nice.
Kristen
30:01
Yeah. We talked about it a little bit, when we're talking about you having somebody come to chemo, but it's really hard: I can't imagine trying to take care of everybody's feelings.
Natasha
30:13
Yeah.
Kristen
30:14
You know, you have been the mom, you have been the nurturer and your, maybe your husband doesn't know how to handle it, your mom doesn't know how to handle it. And they don't know they're doing it, but they're making you responsible for making them feel okay about your cancer.
Natasha
30:27
Yeah.
Kristen
30:28
And so that's the saving grace in doing this alone.
Natasha
30:33
Yeah. I mean I have definitely done this my way, and I am not proud of some of it. Like I have definitely, you know, I will go back to self-care, like I have had a hard time with that. I have had some big pity parties over a weekend, but you know, like I am sitting here, and I am showing up and,  
Kristen
30:44
Yeah, totally.
Natasha
30:54
Yeah, yeah.
Eva
30:58
Thank you for listening to Breast Cancer Stories. To continue telling this story and helping others, we need your help. All podcasts require resources, and we have a team of people who produce it. There's cost involved, and it takes time.
Kristen
31:13
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Eva
31:13
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Kristen
31:13
You will get notes and thoughts from me related to each episode and links to the most useful resources for all the breast cancer things. So if you have chemo brain, you will be able to just go read your email, find anything we talked about on the podcast without having to remember it. 
Eva
31:43
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Kristen
31:53
We promise not to annoy you with too many emails.
Eva
32:01
Thanks for listening to Breast Cancer Stories. If you're facing a breast cancer diagnosis and you want to tell your story on the podcast, send an email to hello@the axis.io.  I'm Eva Sheie, your host and executive producer. Production support for the show comes from Mary Ellen Clarkson and our engineer is Daniel Croeser. Breast Cancer Stories is a production of The Axis.