Ceremonies Of Light and Dark | For the Second Time

[0:44] The year is 2026. The name of the podcast, Babylon 5, for the second time. Welcome to Babylon 5 for the second time. My name is Brent Allen. My name is Jeff Akin. Brent and I used to be Star Trek podcasters, and then we watched Babylon 5 for the first time, and everything changed. So now we're watching this incredible series for the second time, because Babylon 5 is a series that you get to watch for the first time twice. And you know what we're doing for a second time now, though, Jeff, what's that? We are looking for the sci-fi messages that we find in this series. We're asking, what is this series trying to tell us? What is the great maker trying to say? Things like, where are we holding up a mirror to society? Do we get hope that things are going to be better in the future? Or do we just learn how to be better human beings to one another?

[1:39] Now, that being said, Jeff and I have watched the series before everything from this point forward. This is your one and only spoiler warning. We are permitted to talk about anything from any point in the franchise, from any timeline in the franchise, whether it's canonical, extra canonical, does not matter. It is all fair game for Jeff and I to talk about. So if you have not watched this incredible series for the first time for yourself, stop this show right now. Go join our first watch. That one was completely spoiler free. We were in a bubble for that one. You guys join us there. And after you've seen the whole show, you can do that. So if you're still listening to me now, why? I said stop because your spoiler warning has been issued. Why are you still here? Go, go. Today, Brent, we are watching Ceremonies of Light and Dark for the second time. Part four.

[2:36] Possibly, maybe. That's the question we have to ask when we get through this thing. Well, it's what we've kind of been saying. It's what we've... I remember that. I mean, this certainly, like, it's the next episode. Like, it doesn't just move on to a whole new thing. Like, it continues the story of what was happening. It does. What do you remember about it from your first time watch? all i remember jeff is the end scene where delen's in medbay i think maybe her quarters i don't know something like that and everybody's like coming through and like they're throwing their their earth force jackets down and they're making some like giant confession and then she goes and she she takes all that thread and she like like unravels all of the thread yarn and she uses that thread yard to remake them into something entirely new and they all get new uniforms and it's not really everybody who gets a new uniform it's just the people on the dvd cover who are supposed to work with earth force everybody else like if you're if you worked with earth earth force.

[3:38] Prior you just don't get a uniform and now you're just wearing your jeans and banded collar shirt your teenage mutant ninja turtle security outfit right how about you jeff what do you remember from this episode god i brett i don't have fond memories of this um i remember the end just like you do and i liked that yeah but the two things i really remember out of this one and i just i'm not looking forward to them again there's a group of ex night watchers who were around that are going to go after sheridan and delan and dude's got the scar and i talked about this on my reaction video the first time around but his mouth noises through this episode oh my god.

[4:21] Unlistenable unlistenable and speaking of unlistenable this is the episode with the computer and harlan ellison voicing it yes yes god i hate it so yes i love that thing i have zero zero patience for this the only thing that is bad about it is we didn't get more in future episodes really only thing bad about it it is so funny it is so good it is so well done there's no place anywhere it is it's ridiculous it's not funny it's oh yeah it's it's all it's almost as bad brent almost as bad as ergo who peed in your weedies this morning jeff i'm smiling about it i'm happy about this i'm not i'm not upset wow jeff but yeah this is one this is one that i'm uh i'm hopeful has a different polish on it the second time around we'll see we'll see yeah so So it turns out, Jeff, your memory is actually pretty good. Mine not.

[5:26] I don't have negative memories of this episode. Like, I don't. I don't remember hating this episode. But I got to tell you, I went back and listened to our first time watch. Yeah. And you and I were really very much on the same place of this episode. We were not big fans. Okay. Okay. We were not. I did say, so apparently there was a snafu. I don't actually remember this happening. I recorded the Brent watches video. That was for those of you who weren't around back then. I used to do a reaction video for every episode. And we'd put that out on YouTube prior to the episode to what we're doing here now. Um i recorded the reaction video only jeff i made the single greatest mistake that any content creator of any type you didn't hit record you didn't hit record i didn't hit record oh my god oh my god so i had to do it a second time oh from the beginning oh my god oh my god my heart hurts from that like yeah yeah that's so bad but that being said.

[6:39] What I was able to say as I came to talk to you was I did like the episode much more on the second watch than I did on the first. Okay. Okay. That, that having a chance to, to see it twice, I think because I knew where it was going, I knew what it was doing. I was able to track things a little bit better and maybe my expectations were set a little bit better or, or something of that nature. But I did have a much deeper appreciation the second time through. Ultimately, I said it was a fine episode, just not a favorite episode by any stretch of the imagination. You were like, it's a bad episode all the way around. No, no, no. Bad, bad, bad episode. In fact, and you said the reason you didn't like is because it didn't have a bow on it. And you don't understand nuance, Jeff. I don't. I have no eye for it at all. Not at all.

[7:36] So it was not a terribly long episode from us. Okay. I wouldn't say it was short, but it wasn't terribly long. I could sit here and rehash the entirety of the first episode, but that wouldn't be fun. And I'm not going to necessarily do it throughout the course of our episode tonight. But there are a couple of highlights that I want to push. Because there wasn't a whole lot of like... Analysis. Yeah. No, no, no. There was a lot of good analysis, but it's unique to that particular watch. It's not going to be applicable here. Okay. Right. So if you guys are interested, you should go back. I will tell you this. Without rehashing everything that we said, I actually believe that our analysis of the episode was probably more interesting than the episode itself. All right. Okay. Which I think happens sometimes. Sometimes. In the end, I questioned the need for this episode. Why did we need this episode? Like you put this out there. Okay, fine, but why did we need it for all the times that I'm like we need to know what happens next? And then, like, we get soulmates. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like, nope, turns out we didn't need to know what happened next. We were perfectly okay, and that's what we get. Speaking of the Harlan Ellison thing, the AI. Yeah. You had a big question about that. You're like, okay, so this is a subroutine that they just missed. They forgot about whatever.

[9:02] You were on this thing about, okay, is this laying the groundwork that there are other subroutines that we don't know about in the system that's going to come back later? Or was this just the episode was 45 seconds short and they needed some filler? We now know. We do. I don't know if it was short or if they just wrote this in from the beginning, but ultimately, there's no other subroutines. This is just the gloriousness that exists on its own and it's perfection. It's absolute perfection. Yeah. Um, I said that the entire thing about the ceremonies and all that sort of stuff, ultimately, ultimately, here's my grand analysis. It was just a plot mechanic. It was a MacGuffin to get us to have new uniforms.

[9:47] They wanted to change the uniforms costuming department, got a little budget upgrade and they wanted new uniforms. Yeah, that's, that was my, I do know that the new, the idea for the new uniforms really came into form around the end of the second season. Yeah. Yeah. We both said that, that, and we acknowledged our, our view of this episode is potentially colored by its placement in the season, right? Coming right after these last three weeks to then turn around and get this episode, which we both very much noted, this is not a palate cleanser type of episode. A lot of times you get through these big ones, you need a palate cleanser. This is not a palate cleanser. It's not what a palate cleanser is funny. A palate cleanser washes stuff out. That is not what this does. But we asked, like, if this was placed in another part of the season, would it be more well received? And honestly, we didn't know. Like, we couldn't play that out in our head.

[10:46] Um, we did spend, if you remember Jeff, uh, way back at the, like towards the three quarter mark of the season one, when we were going through the season one, I came home with a John Sheridan action figure. Yeah. Yeah. Now we didn't know who John Sheridan was. We hadn't met him yet. And he was in his earth force uniform. That was this new uniform that they get. And he's got the finger point. Right. And we were finally like, Hey, now we know what that uniform is. It's not just a weird toy thing. It's actually something they put out. And then we're just like, so now we get that. What I can't wait to find out is what's with the finger point, right? What's with the finger point on the action figure? Because I just didn't get it. And now, Jeff, having seen the show all the way through, I get it. You know what the finger point is? What's that? It's six, seven. Do you know what that is? No, don't go anywhere. Sit your butt down. No. Do you know what that is? It's just a number that somebody said. It's nothing. Yeah, some kid just said it. It's absolutely nothing. Yeah. That's what it is. It means nothing. They just say it. There's no. The Chambers chat is going off.

[12:08] Oh, man. Six, seven. You've been holding on to that for a while. Oh, I have been. I have been. Okay, I'm sorry. Time out. There is a video, Jeff, from Walt Disney World's Christmas Parade this year. Okay. Well, this past year. Now, we're recording this in January of 2026. So I'm talking six weeks ago. Yeah. Right? So 2025 Christmas when the whole 6-7 thing was going on. And it's Santa. And he's on his sleigh, on the float as he's coming by. And he's talking. And it, and they actually have a microphone on Santa. And so he's talking to folks as he goes by, right. And he's, Hey kids, how you doing? Whatever. Hey, make sure you leave out some cookies, you know, cause we're whatever, you know, maybe you could leave, I don't know, six, seven cookies out for me. Like he drops it. They throw stuff at him. They're just like, shut up. You suck, Santa.

[13:16] Andrew says, please just start talking about Avalon again. For everybody prior to hitting record, Jeff and I spent like 15 minutes talking about Jeff in three weeks. Three weeks from now, the countdown is on. It is our second watch of late delivery from Avalon. The, the number one show everyone is waiting for us to get to, at least if you were around for the first watch. Right. Because there's some stuff. Anyway. Anyway. Yeah. The finger point is nothing. It's absolutely, it's just John Sheridan just pointing fingers, which I find, I find hilarious. Okay. I got one more thing, Jeff. Such a long walk for that, man. I'm just like, wow. I love the dead. Okay.

[14:06] Listen, when I sell out, I sell out. All right, here we go. Speaking of selling out, Jeff, my friend, you had a comment. I have an exact quote. Oh, God. How? How? You threatened. You are still allowed to be a Babylon 5 podcaster after saying this. I will never know except you're the golden child and you can do no wrong. Jeffrey Akin. We'll see. We'll see. Folks i would like to enter it into the record these words exactly spoken by jeff aiken but when i watched it a second time i realized that delin is just a bag of hot wind who never actually says anything and goes out of her way to sound super smart and super wise but really she just speaks in a way that makes everything seem so much more impactful than it really is. Dylan is just a bag of hot wind who never actually says anything. In my defense. So for so much. So.

[15:33] I can't lose. You can't. You're the golden child. In the chat, they just said, Brent, you suck for bringing that up about Jeff. Not Jeff sucks. Not Jeff, how dare you. No, no, no. It's Brent, how dare you. Why? Because Jeff is the golden child. He can do no wrong. I'm Jonas Quinn, baby. Yeah, can't lose. I can't lose. Go ahead, Jeff. Defend yourself. Let me say it again. Dillon is just a bag of hot wind who never actually says anything and goes out of her way to sound super smart and super wise. During the first season of our first watch.

[16:19] So many of our messages that we brought up were from Delenn and on reflection, because we have reflected back and we've watched some of those and listened to our episodes. That's not much of a message. She just sounds really cool when she says them tone tone. They say that when you say something, like if you're listening to someone talk, you remember 20% of what they say and a hundred percent of how they made you feel. And Delenn makes us feel awesome, makes us feel like she is wise, we can trust her, that she's got deep, meaningful things to say. And Brent, that's important. Well, you know, I would have reached out to Mira for comment on this, but unfortunately, she has passed beyond the rim. May she rest in peace. I did, however, reach out to one J. Michael Straczynski. Sure, yeah. And get his comments on your comments. God! Okay, no I didn't. Jeff's pooping his pants right now. A little bit. Because 100% that would happen. That's a for real thing that would go down. I just... Jeff, you know what, though? No, listen, listen. I'm going to preemptively double down on that statement.

[17:40] I'm going to go in open to being changed. But do you know what I said at the series wrap up for this show? After watching all the television shows, all the movies, everything. If it was anything other than I was wrong, then it does not matter. I said you know who's overrated delen i talked trash in that episode about the len and zathras and somehow brent i still have this job.

[18:13] How's that paramount money flowing for you brother it's working well i got this with it and i think this gives me some cred yeah yeah sure does ah it's all right jeff they all still love you We'll see how it goes after this episode. Yeah. Give me three weeks and I may be right out of town on a poll, but you. Jeff's just speaking truth. I'm speaking truth to power. That's what's happening right there.

[18:42] Yeah. So, Jeff, that is, I can't say that's what we said. Those are words that I said the words that I said. You said the words that you said that I did not say. You said them, not me. You, not me. You, however, speaking of the great maker himself, Joe Michael Straczynski, you went and tried to find some of his words on this particular episode. Did you find anything interesting that he might have said, or was he also just a big bag of hot wind who didn't have anything interesting to say? I wouldn't say it was a big bag of hot wind, but he didn't have a lot interesting to say.

[19:20] There really wasn't a lot on this one. A couple things, though. We talked about, I think we mentioned this last week, but he called out that this is the exact midpoint of the entire series, episode 55. So he said it's appropriate that this heralds some major change. The show to this point has been about keeping secrets. In this episode, we're going to start revealing secrets. Interesting. Okay. Okay. You know, here's what I like about that. I question the need for this episode. Yep. Why this episode? That answers that question for me. I dig that. Okay. Yeah. In fact, I mean, that's just the kind of extract. He talks quite a bit about this was the...

[19:59] The pivot point the change in the series so it did have a purpose he clarified that the ceremony that we see is the same ceremony from parliament of dreams we talked about that we asked if that was the same ceremony or not the big marriage ceremony okay uh i i am not sure what this references in the episode itself but he says that this is not one of londo's opportunities for redemption so he does something and we you know we got this stuff from lady morella two weeks ago i answer that okay i can answer that yeah dylan goes to him and asks londo to participate in this ceremony and he flat out refuses because this is this is supposed to be a ceremony that is about renewal and i don't know that redemption is quite it but it's it's it's this whole rebirth re-life airing of grief festivus type of thing okay um and he has a chance to be a part of that And he just just spitballs on the whole thing. That makes sense with the next part he says about it. He says, in fact, Londo doesn't believe he needs to be redeemed. Yeah. Yeah. And the first step of knowing that you have a problem is admitting that you need to be redeemed. I found this comment actually really interesting.

[21:13] So um there are these script books that uh he shares the scripts of all the episodes that jms has written and he writes a little blurb about each episode sometimes there's a ton of information sometimes it's just a little bit and in this one there's a story that i i love that because he did all this after the end of the series so he can reference hey this thing here it's going to lead to this thing sure in here yeah yeah so he says this is the episode that lanier realizes his love for delen that happened bill moomy went to jms and said i think lanier is in love with delen, he thought of lanier a lot as like lance a lot and and his uh.

[21:54] Kind of the parallel there wait wait wait jms thought of lanier's lancelot or bill moomy was thinking bill moomings a lot okay yeah all right and jms said that this decision by bill put a series of events in motion that could only end with lanier's fifth season moment of weakness because lancelot's story is far from light comedy jeff i have a question yeah speaking of avalon there is that um there is that bid at the end where they're going through and they're saying oh this person's this and this person's this and that person's that and who's morgana lefay and that was the oh morgana lefay did we get a lancelot out of that conversation do you remember i don't remember i don't think we did i think that'd be really that'd be really interesting if he named linear as lancelot right just right it's like here's what's gonna happen yeah yeah Because I think, didn't Marcus say he was like Sir Gwaine or something like that? I think so, yeah.

[22:53] But that's all I got for this one. I have a handful of things for during the episode itself. But that's it. So what do you say we jump into the ceremony? Let's do it. What's going to happen right now is we're going to pull this episode up. We're going to watch it right here together and with you. We're going to comment on it. We're going to pull out messages in the moment, react to things that are happening. If you're on YouTube watching this, you're going to see the cut-up, edited reaction video sort of style. thing. If you want to see the full and unedited version of that, you can get that over at our Patreon page. That's patreon.com slash badnerds. And if you're listening to us on an audio podcasting app, don't worry. We are not leaving you behind. We are going to take you along the journey with us, just audio only. So you'll hear that reaction. We want you to catch all the conversations that we're going to have in the middle of the episode. And then we'll still meet you on the other side where we're going to share thoughts and we'll talk about messages and we'll rank the episode and all that sort of stuff. So Jeff, Let's do a thing. Let's do that thing. Accessing file.

[23:50] Well, what happened to you? I fractured my elbow and wrist when we went hand-to-hand when the Marines tried to board us. I figured I could get by. Jeff, you remember last week he actually broke his harm in the making of that scene. So there was a thing. I didn't actually capture it as a note, but just we paused here. He walked into JMS's office with the script in hand, furious. And he's just like, when I got my arm busted, I could have stopped production. I could have gone to the hospital. I could have gotten fixed up. I could have slowed things down, messed it all up. But you know what I did? I finished the shot. I stayed and I finished the shot. And you pay me back by making fun of me in the script? And JMS says, what are you talking about? He's like, right here, page 18, scene 25 or whatever. I asked the computer to do something and it says, what, you got a broken arm or something? So I don't know if that's still... JMS had no idea. No idea. He just wrote it in as a thing, you know, like whatever.

[24:43] And Jerry Doyle took it very, Very seriously Wow Very upset I don't know if they kept the line in or not We'll just have to kind of listen for it But Interesting Yeah, interesting so how much longer are you going to stay out of uniform until this is over it could be a long time as long as we are on our own i can't justify wearing an earth force uniform my hypocrisy only goes so far what about later well oh yeah i'll wear it then but that's the last time now if you need me we talked quite a bit about this the first time around and i'm going to stick by what we actually said totally understandable that he would wear the uniform one more time as a sign of respect for those who fell during the battle yeah but totally but um And the fact that he's the only one not wearing the uniform, at the very least, Ivanova should have taken off her jacket here. And been like, you know what? Me too. You're right. The idea that Sheridan's doing this alone is just kind of weird. And, you know, even if Garibaldi wants to keep the uniform on, you can understand security guy. I want to stay in full uniform, all that sort of stuff. You can get that.

[25:43] Different people have different things for what they're doing. But Ivanova, second command, she should have joined her captain in this one. I think the way he laid it out, too, my hypocrisy only goes so far. He basically called anyone still wearing the uniform a hypocrite. Be out making the rounds. Yeah. Are you sure that's a good idea? He just kind of smacked him in the face there, didn't he? We assure everyone that we are in control of the situation. We can't do that hiding in our offices. I still think you should have an armed discord. And it defeats the purpose, Mr. Garibaldi. I can take care of myself.

[26:13] Captain Sheridan has asked me to convey his thanks for helping save this. Why does that door open like that? It's not one of the swingy doors. I'm sure there's a reason. I don't know. Nice.

[26:24] The trial ahead of us will be long and difficult. The first step has been an honorable one. We made fun of all these people very clearly not speaking. History will remember them with reverence. You still haven't told me what you think of all this. Opinion doesn't enter into it. What is, is. Prophecy said one day we would unite with the other half of our soul in a war with the ancient enemy. This we have done.

[26:46] Prophecy is a poor guide to the future. You only understand it when the events are ready upon you. Not all of the prophecies are good ones. There is darkness and fire. Still ahead of us there are no guarantees that any of us will survive it i'm just leaning into it at this point right now uh-huh but uh hey so i just rolled into the gray council and preached prophecy up and down and then i come in here and i tell you a prophecy really but also she says you know she says pretty great great stuff but i i seem to remember our conversation going to the point of prophecy is essentially a guess that came right or it's a something someone said that then you manufacture events to line up to with that's something about that well well what what i had said was humanity as a whole from any religion is a really is we have a really really really bad track record of interpreting correctly interpreting unfulfilled prophecy and and i really appreciated what dylan said here because we we don't do well at interpreting unfulfilled prophecy but what that means if you are of the ilk of believing in prophecy, what you want to do is you need to know the prophecy so that when it occurs, you can recognize it, but you're not going to be able to be like.

[28:04] That's exactly what that means right you just need to know what the prophecy is and yes a lot of times it becomes literally self-fulfilling as in the lens case here yeah andrew in the council chambers chat i like what he says prophecy is a game of telephone that started a thousand by a thousand year old time traveler in this case but i think we could even make that bigger and say prophecy is a game of telephone started over a thousand years ago sure he's got such a clear shot like for a long time yeah there's absolutely no reason for him to not pull the trigger i told you to wait i had a clear shot you had nothing you take him down he's a martyr.

[28:43] 500 men will stand up where he fell now we do this by the numbers or not at all don't worry before this is over now i hear the mouth noises i can't not hear it.

[28:56] I feel like this has to be from looping in ADR. Yeah. It's got to be. I mean, don't they replace the audio for like 90% of what they do anyway? Yeah, pretty much. So JMS, you know, responding to stuff on the internet, people really thought that that guy's name is Boggs. They thought that Boggs' scar was fake and not well done. Tell me. Let me guess. Let me guess. That is the man's real life scar. Yep. Was not a piece of makeup. up it's a real scar and it does work that way and it does look that way your government will think twice before engaging them in barry fleet they're not my government back on the colony earth was just a place that sent us books and vids and took 30 of our income should have given it the boot years ago now we can make a fresh start where's marcus from which is why i forget the name of the colony but it's like a mining colony this may not be a good come on council chambers come through He actually became the administrator of that colony. When? Before he got picked up as a ranger. His brother came and visited him. His brother was recruited as a ranger. Right. And then his brother died, and he felt all guilty, and then he went to go join the thing. Yeah. I didn't realize that he was the administrator. I didn't realize that. So he left his responsibility to his colony. Well, the shadows pretty much destroyed his colony. There was nothing left.

[30:13] There was nothing left for him, too. Okay, okay. I don't want to say fair, but that's... But yeah, he left to fulfill his brother's commitment, essentially. All right, fair enough. Commemorates a great change that is coming. I just think everyone's going to be busy with ceremonies of their own for a while. In breaking away from Earth, we have begun a difficult and uncertain journey, and none of us can see it. Here's a ceremony that's happening. But our cause remains a just one. That truth honors and sanctifies our fallen comrades who have made the ultimate sacrifice so that we might carry on the work that is ahead of us. We are gathered here today to honor their memory and their names. Come on up.

[30:55] One of the things he said was that this basically looks like they just went next door to the prop room at Paramount and got the torpedo casings from Storker. Can we use these? Did she just say Takashima? I don't think so. Maybe. A thing I love, though, that was from memory. She wasn't reading that. Commit these bodies to the deep. Andrew coming through with this as well as a couple others. But Aresia III was the colony, and Marcus didn't run the colony. He ran Coal Mining, which was an operation on that colony. All right. Thank you, Andrew, and everyone else. Glenn, popping in with that.

[31:35] A rebirth ceremony? Yes. I demonstrated a small part of it two years ago in an exchange of religious ritual. Now I think we could benefit from all of it. Who are you inviting? You, Ivanova, Mr. Garibaldi, Dr. Franklin. several in what's left of the league of non-aligned worlds jacar ambassador malari the dvd cover folks the man that's been going on he's the last person i'd invite to something like this which is why the first one i decided must be invited we have gone through so much pain john if we do not put it behind us if we.

[32:07] Born into new possibilities to show me this place all right i have to ask how in the world is that just hot air what are you talking about i don't know that is like the ultimate what she just said we've been through so much pain john this is something we need right now that's not hot air that's not i agree wisdom what's even more beyond her years that's wisdom even more wise is long londo was the first one i thought to bring here he needs it the most delin is nothing but a bag of hot wind who never actually says anything and goes out of her way to sound super smart and super wise for now sheridan is not the primary target damn minbari we nearly had sheridan until those war cruisers showed up can't do anything until they're gone exactly so that's our target ambassador len is walking a tightrope back home she got those ships here through sheer force of person hey think that she's the second coming or something i think she's the one take that away minbari warships will vanish our forces can come in and finish the job minbari are funny about their leaders we killed they might take it kind of personal don't worry we've got that angle covered we'll make it look like it was shared in swat i can't listen that's so hard especially in headphones especially with cans on during the war i once took seven days to kill a minbari first you tie off the fingers one at a time.

[33:32] Then you slice off the fingers and the feet. This dude is sick, man.

[33:38] I mean, I'm talking like Ramsey Boltling. Sick. Everybody here should be like backing away. You should have seen it. Don't worry. We will. Toe bones connected to the foot bone. So a couple things about this song. A number of people online thought it was a riff or an homage to The Prisoner. Okay. I'm not sure why. I still haven't watched that show. He said it was not that at all. He said even if that song had originated with The Prisoner, then that'd be one thing. He says the song goes back a long, long ways before that. While he was writing this episode he often will have music playing in the background he's got like one of those six disc cd changers it's pretty swanky and you can right the shuffle of the 90s as it were and a lot of stuff was coming up he's listening to a lot of things and this song came on and he's like that's it what's what discs does he have that this song is in his disc i know It wasn't like his nephew's something or other. No, because it wasn't a kid's show or a kid's song. It was like an actual. I'm going to actually pull the thing up here. Because I didn't take the note. Halloween's greatest hits?

[34:52] What's he listening to? Came in right after the Monster Mash. Right. Right before the Purple People Eater. I think we had the same album, you and me. I'm pretty sure that album has been reprinted a half a bajillion times. So as he says, at that moment. I'll just read the whole thing here. I'd finished writing the bit where the sniper talks about slicing fingers and other body parts off his subjects Which I confess is a pretty nutso thing to do But it needed one more step to really push it over the edge Make it really creepy at that moment. It's good writing right there at that moment The red clay ramblers cover of the old gospel song valley of the dry bones started playing on the cd I.

[35:34] Why is JMS listening to old gospel music? Why not? It's a cover of old gospel music to be put to find a point on it. That's the Ezekiel song is what that is. That's not, that's not them bones, them bones. That's, that's, that's Ezekiel. Okay. Yeah. So dim bones and bones and dry bones, but maybe that led him to like, I don't know. Okay. Yeah. All right. All right. Computer. Computer. Hey, what are you looking at? Run diagnostics. What, you got a broken arm or something? It stayed in. Computer. Fine, I'll do a diagnostic. So maybe level 42 doesn't get its quota of oxygen for today because I'm distracted. But if it makes you happy... Stop. Care, Boldu. I just remember they tried to install artificial intelligence subroutine when the station went operational. They shut it down right away because it didn't work right. Clearly, it came back online when the system rebooted. I'd say it's working perfectly. How do we shut it down? How do we shut it down? I heard that. Are you too easily offended or what? Yeah, I think I now understand why you don't like Ergo. Yeah? Yeah. It's a similar humor. Because you don't like good humor, period. But, you know. I don't understand nuance. I didn't say that. I just said you didn't have a sense of humor. So JMS says. Oh, yeah. The computer voice, Sparky, wasn't a nod of any kind to hitchhikers.

[36:57] 2001's Hal beat them to the punch a long time before that in any event. Said nope i just figured if the computer system had a glitch what would it sound like and the answer harlan ellison so he goes to harlan and says this is what i want to do and harlan says why me and jms replied well i need somebody really annoying.

[37:17] From everything i know of harlan and jms's relationship that sold him right there yeah.

[37:23] Yeah, he said at the end, JMS was like, it's a wonder we're still friends, you know, or something like that. But yeah, so that's where we get sparky. With everything that has been going on, I'm surprised you invited me. In a matter of confessions, meditation, and the closing of past wounds, Ambassador, you were at the top of my list. I am already attending to my past, my present, and what remains of my future. I do not require your assistance or your approval. Enjoy your ceremony, Delaine. I intend to have other plans.

[37:54] Londo's firing on all cylinders in this episode. Oh, absolutely. I've already been born once and quite sufficiently, I think. I'm sorry, but I'm simply too busy. Good day to you, Delenn, Mr. Linear. You know, I worked for a long time in the business of process improvement, Lean Six Sigma, that kind of stuff. And one of the big issues that comes up when you go and try and do process improvements is everybody's like, I don't have time. I'm too busy. There's too much work. I can't stop and do this thing that'll actually net us a bunch of great things. I feel like in a lot of ways, I was Delenn, but I wasn't talking about rebirth or healing wounds. I was like, you can strengthen your iron triangle, right? Your cost, your quality, your time. We can get all that stuff so much better, save you money. Everyone had the excuse of why they couldn't do it. But once they did, when they made the time for it, 100% of the time, they were better off for it. So I feel all this. I am, I, Brent, am relating to and empathically connecting with Delenn. She's not a hot bag of air, like wind, like you keep saying.

[38:56] I didn't say it. You said it multiple times. No, you don't, don't, don't, you, that I'm going to point at you like John Sheridan. That was you.

[39:12] Somebody's gonna take video of me actually saying words and make it sound like i'm the one who said i know it's dylan you asked me to remind you about the ship oh yes of course a captain from one of our warships has asked for a tour of the station it seems fair to let them see what they have saved i will meet him in the docking bay good i will go with you marcus will accompany me Captain Lalanne. It's a fun name to say. Oh, Nia makes a great point. Jakar doesn't participate here. He also didn't participate in Day of the Dead. You would trust me enough to talk to me, Marcus. Why are you so reluctant to take part in the rebirth ceremony? You asked me to give something up, Delenn. I don't have anything left. It's all gone. My brother was the last of our family, and he died because of my stupidity. He warned me of the shadows. I didn't listen. And when they came, I lost him, our home, the colony where we'd grown up, a woman I was quite fond of. I escaped with only the clothes on my back and went off in search of these rangers that he'd been going on about. I don't have anything left to give. And that is exactly what you must give up. Oh, this is great. You have lost much, endured much, sacrificed greatly. But you cling to the memory of your sacrifices, of all the things you have lost or left behind. They drag behind you like chains of your own making. They can have a terrible power over you, Marcus. The power of grief and loss.

[40:36] And regret you have not forgiven yourself for what being alive that was incredible yeah that's that's just hot wind all over the place absolutely no no that's incredible wisdom unannounced guests i love the depth that adds to marcus uh-oh you know to this point we've known there he's great he's talented he's skilled all these great things and we've known there's more to him but we didn't know what it was it's like this is the first time that we're really getting into that i honestly thought that these minbari were about to attack them with us or die die now or die later you know nia asks a great question one that i have often asked about babylon 5 where's security right dylan is a high ranking level ambassador he's a fleet captain why are they not walking around with personal security everywhere they go well how often do we see uh i don't know captain lockley or lady morella show up and like what nobody here it's just no i just don't i don't buy it they're gonna have somebody around them yeah i mean death walker gets wrenched in the face.

[41:50] How are you? I'd be worried about my own health right now. Your face is far worse than you. Words out. Got that monitor line scrambled? She hit him right where it counts. All right, people, let's get ready. Knew the exact place to get him. You're not some tough guy. I should never have left her alone, even for a minute. What do you want? To put the station back into Earth control and to kick out the alien influence. Now you either get rid of those minbari cruisers in the next six hours, or I'll kill the hostages. First the captain, then Glenn. One last thing. monitoring all security channels and some of our people are still in with your people chief that's a big line wow do anything stupid whether it's true or not it's true now bastards bloody bastards let him go he'll find him faster than you will garibaldi right he has sources of his own that don't involve security maybe he can find something what are you doing i came here to discuss the rebirth ceremony with you you will come i assume reaper why are you worrying about that there's much more important things the last thing she asked me to do and i will see that it is done forget about it it's not important linear do not touch me in that fashion we sometimes look like you but we are not.

[43:02] Never forget that. Point taken. Don't you think that I want to tear this station apart looking for her? She is my mentor. My teacher. My. Oh, there it was. It's part of the rebirth ceremony. I am required to tell someone that which I have never told anyone before. This is as good a time as any. I'm going to pause right there because we're about to pivot. JMS on this, that moment where he blows up Marcus and yells. He didn't see or intend any element of Lanier being a racist. There are definitely differences in culture and physiology between Minbari and humans. Minbari are very careful about personal space, and they don't like to be talked to in a certain way. Marcus momentarily forgot himself and acted inappropriately. Lanier corrected him. And now, the line that can only end in a moment of weakness in the fifth season. I love her. Like, love her? Or like, love her, love her? You'll forgive me if I'm a little surprised at your admission. For anyone who may have missed it, pay attention to the noise. We can't stop them from killing the hostages if things go wrong. How much time do we have left on the deadline? Less than an hour. Security has been compromised. I can put together a team of people I can trust. Make it a small team. The more people, the more chance they'll hear about it. Marcus, did your contact give a description of the security guard? Yes. Very detailed, in fact. Good. Because I have an idea. Which is? We're going to surrender. How much longer? Ten minutes. We're in business. Please send a narrow beam transmission back home, tell them to send in the Marines.

[44:32] Once they get here they're coming in oh that doesn't sound right how are there people going to be here in an hour if they have to contact Earth.

[44:47] It's like it's like this episode wants to be something just as huge as the last three episodes, you called out these DPV shots And you're really bad at all. Cover me. Dude, the Mimbari just back-head-butted it, dude, with that bone. So smart. John! John, look out!

[45:20] All right, Dobby. Oh, my God. D'Lynn! Jeez. Medic! It's Medic! And they're just letting him be right there. There you go, Tom. I know. We'll take care of him. They need six people to take care of D'Lynn. See, no, because now he's just after revenge. Yeah, we talked about that, didn't we? I didn't know. Maybe not, I don't remember. But now he's just after revenge. No more of you. No more night watch, no more hostages, no more lies. Not on my station. Not on my watch. No more.

[45:59] That's so pro wrestling. Let me just stand here open while I get ready to take this. What a great just burst, though, from Sheridan. Lanier? Sure. Any news on Delenn? Yes. Not a scratch on Sheridan. Dude, his hand would be so busted. His hand's not even like nothing. And we can go ahead with the rebirth ceremony she talked about. I'm afraid that is impossible. It would have been better if he just did like a Chuck Norris roundhouse kick. The ceremony must be held in a certain amount of time once preparations have begun. It's the Narn that do that, though. That time has almost passed. And Delenn is in no condition to conduct it now. So where's Garibaldi? I figured he'd be here. He's still working with the tech crews trying to get the computer system back in shape. They say they'll finally have the artificial personality purged by midnight. Thank God. Not that my bruised feelings would have any meaning for you, but why are you having these people poke me all over the place? He actually kind of sounds like Peter Delanyes. He does, a little bit.

[46:59] That's like the best thing Garibaldi's ever done. I haven't slept since I was put here. I can't argue with you on that. When it is time. When you were in my arms, I was ready to kill that guy with my bare hands. That sounds terrifying. I realized I'd never told you how much I cared about you. Nothing says I love you like her with your bare hands. I think it's time you knew that. I can no longer imagine my world without you in it. What a bag of hot air. I don't... Sheridan, I know. When or how it happened but I'm glad it did so earned like it's so it's just like, yes it's such a good line too hey Garibald's just waiting out there oh he's done no one knows but I'm afraid all the time.

[47:59] Okay, we talked about this in our first watch. Yeah, we wondered a lot. Is he, you and I were in two different spots. You thought he just meant like, loses cool, loses crap. I thought he meant fall off the wagon. Yeah, that's what. With his alcoholism. I think you're right. Say it one more time. I think you're right. One more time, nice and loud and clear for the people in the back. I think you are right. Do it one more time, but lose the I think. You are right. Got it. Yes! We actually see it happen. Oh, here we go. Yeah. I think I loved Talia.

[48:38] Last time her hair was like that, she was with Dahlia. So that was a very, very intentional line write by JMS. He wasn't necessarily planning on that being the thing, but the message boards and online were full of speculation. Were they? Won't they? I don't know what it was. And so he was really excited. He's like, I'm just going to make it clear. Crystal clear, this is what it was, which makes Ivanova not only the first character, leading character that is Jewish, but also bisexual in television. She's the first. Well, no, I'm wondering, I know later she talks about boffing Marcus and having, you know, listen, she honestly never shows any romantic interest in Marcus, even at the end. They just have their little like she kind of, you know, he's sweet, but really never get the idea that there's any true or man. I'm just wondering about the bi label here. Like, have we seen her with men? Yeah. Scorpio, the dude, the home guard guy back in War Prayer. Okay. All right. Fair enough. And Suzanne makes a really good point. Boffing isn't necessarily romance. That's what I mean. That's what I mean. Like, even whatever we saw between her and Marcus there at the end is not necessarily a romantic thing on her behalf. Yeah.

[49:55] So. Yeah. She had home guard guy back in the day. She did. You know, but I'll tell you, I know a lot of lesbians that at one point in their lives dated men. Oh, right. Yeah, totally. And they would not say they're bisexual at all. So, I mean. This is 1996, so if she did, she did. I'm not trying to take it away from her. I'm just trying to – did JMS say bi? He did. Or is that what you're saying? He specifically said bisexual. Okay, fair enough. That's what I'm saying. It's 1996. If she was with a guy, she likes guys. If she was with a girl, she likes girls. That's just how it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Malcolm was the guy's name. I always call him Scorpio from when he's on General Hospital. I got everybody's waiting outside. I know, just right there. Let me tell you the secret. I never told anybody that everyone's going to hear me say. Okay, Sheridan and Franklin are wearing the same shirt. I think I have a problem.

[50:43] Why is everybody butting their top collars? I know. Let that breathe, man. It's the style.

[51:24] It is a good looking uniform though, isn't it? I prefer the Earth Force. No. JMS says, regarding the new uniforms, I want it to have a crossed look. Certain Minbari elements and textures, lines that are reminiscent of the Rangers, but also of Earth Force. Hence the result. There's a certain perverseness in making those on the side of light wear black uniforms. Reverses our expectations.

[52:04] That is a big ass ship right there right in fact please tell them we're open for business because we're broke right which we'll deal with that in a future episode brett i've prepared a statement i take full responsibility and am deeply sorry for any pain humiliation or discomfort i've caused my peers friends and family i've made many mistakes and i'm so very sorry that i've disappointed my friends my family my fans and my team the land is not a hot bag of wind oh jeff we can't stay mad at you of course our little golden child no then apology like that you can't oh jeffy jeffy jeffy before we dive into conversation check your text messages got it that's ceremonies of light and dark i have cleansed i'm now absolved of what i said what three years ago come on what did i know what did i know back then you knew nothing nothing dylan was this this this episode has a lot of stupid in it they're trying to really i don't know the whole way they handled the the night watch people i think was pretty sloppy and then there's the whole dumb sparky thing but the marcus stuff and the Delenn stuff.

[53:28] Even Londo, so good. Peak, peak, loved it. I appreciate this episode even more on a third watch now.

[53:39] This is technically would be my third watch now. I don't know that I would ever be like, oh, yeah, it's this episode. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like that's that's not that's not the kind of episode that this is. But to sit back and go, why was this episode needed? Why? Whatever. That is the comment of somebody who has never seen the show before and doesn't know where we're going, doesn't know what's going on, doesn't understand exactly how things are fitting together. The idea that there is still some night watch left hidden amongst the ranks that need to be weaseled out. That is absolutely the thing. The idea that somebody is going to be so, I mean, you just committed treason, John Sheridan, which he did. He committed treason, right? And that comes with a very specific penalty, and we're going to exact that penalty. The idea that he would have to deal with that is very real. And it would be it would be disgenuine to just pretend like everybody in the station's cool with this new thing. It's all good now. It's all fine. You know, so you have to deal with that on some level so you can just move on. Right.

[54:51] Also, the wisdom of Dylan and Jeff, I'm kind of moving towards messages within the whole thing. And I'm not just this is more of just a general overall idea. Thank you. As humans, we often mark great transitions in our lives with some sort of a ceremony. Graduating high school, going for a drive. Hey, listen, how do you celebrate somebody getting their driver's license? Right, yeah. You go out to eat or you go on a joyride. How do you celebrate your 21st birthday? Get a little blitzed.

[55:25] Drinking all night. Yep. You know, if you live in Florida, you go drinking around the world at Epcot. You know what I mean? Like, that's just what you do. These are, these are ceremony, graduating high school, graduating college, marriage, even when you, when, when there's babies, there's baby showers and there's, there's, you know, there's housewarming parties. We mark major life transitions via ceremony and to Lynn walking in, recognizing the wisdom of something new is happening. We have to have this, there's a need for the ceremony in our life. And so often we as people will neglect a ceremony when there's actually something really important within the ceremony. Because ceremonies do a few things. Not only do they mark the occasion, but they help the transition. We say goodbye to the old, we say hello to the new, right? It helps us more internally than it does externally. And when we go, oh, I'm too busy for that. Oh, I don't want to get into all that. When we short circuit that and we just move on, I'm not saying that it hinders life or it hinders things when we don't go through that, but there is still a piece that we're missing internally.

[56:47] Yeah, ceremonies are good. Yeah. They are good. Traditions are or can be a good thing. Yes. You know, not always are they, but they can be a really, really good thing. And I think Dylan was very, very wise to insist upon this whole thing happening. And I love the fact that.

[57:08] She even fully anticipated that they were all going to come around and she had this thing already done. Yep, all pre-baked, ready to go. Also, I could fully see, like, she had this thing. She had these new uniforms ready to go. And she just was looking for an excuse. Like, she was really excited. And she was like, this is how I'm going to give it to them. Right. And this is going to happen. And then they're all, like, just crapping all over her idea. And she's like, no. I know. But I wanted to do it this way. And, you know, listen, this is another story altogether. But the way I proposed to my wife was that basic situation. Like, I've got this thing and I want to do it this way. And everything that could have gone wrong did. Really? Oh, yeah. Yeah, it was bad. I'll tell that story one day. Today's not the day. But, yeah. Anyway. So, yeah. No, I think Dylan was not a bag. She was anything but a bag of hot air in this episode. And in general, most episodes. I think her words, her words specifically tend to be the, okay, let's stop. Let's rewind. Let's listen again. Let's hear what she said. Let's internalize it. Let's examine it.

[58:17] And let's move forward and and let's see how that applies to our lives you know last week we talked about the three different delens that we saw and the first one was that one-on-one personal one where she's speaking from her heart her soul you know and everything we saw that that was her in this episode but it was one to many instead of one to one yeah just showing you that this is this is the caring delen and maybe she was a bag of hot air but that hot air was full of wisdom, and things that needed to be said because aren't we all just bags of hot air and meat really well ugly bags of mostly water i believe that too is what the actual phrase is yeah jeff did you catch any other any other messages specifically coming out of out of this i feel like there's stuff with marcus that we really could dig into and really fully examine um particularly when it comes again this is where i'm going to go to misplace guilt he is living somebody else's commitment it.

[59:13] He doesn't have to do that. That's a choice he's making and he can feel an obligation and that's all fine, but that is a choice he's making. That is not his obligation to fulfill. I think we, we make choices about what defines us, right? And I really appreciated Delan pointing out like the choice he's making is he's letting his suffering define him. And that coming to the surface in this is huge. I mean, I said it during the watch, but that depth to Marcus and knowing that like –.

[59:49] What he's carrying all the time and and what i know from the the book it's the to dream and the to sleep in the city of dreams or something like this the sinclair the sinclair novel it's really good um like he's with his brother his brother dies because of stuff he did like right there's real stuff going on there and i mean it was it was catastrophic what was going on for him and he immediately just went into well then i have to make it right i have to make it right And it was in that cycle for so long, he never stopped to realize he's his own person still. And I think that's the thing there is you are your own person. And this is the beginning of Marcus being able to tap into that for himself. But yeah, other than that, I think there's some stuff in Londo, right? And just kind of the assumed innocence that comes with the hubris that he carries with him. Dive into that. What do you mean? I don't even think I'm good. I'm fine. Everything I'm doing is all right. I mean, actually what I'm doing is great. Do you not see this? I don't need your rebirth or anything like that. Is that actually hubris or is that he's just lying to himself? He's just trying to justify stuff to himself because he knows it's wrong. I think that's actually what most hubris ultimately is. You think so? Like at his root, it's an overcompensation.

[1:01:11] Mm-hmm but then we saw like when we saw a lot of this episode he was fantastic he was in sixth gear with rifa and there with the head the these boys yeah you know he stretched everything out with the len just leaning into it now i'm good and what we know where he ends it's just.

[1:01:34] Be honest with yourself where you are and what's going on. When someone is reflecting you back to you, see it. Yeah. Take it. It's almost like he's wearing a mask. Yeah. This is part of the mask he's wearing, you know, and some people wear masks for different reasons. Absolutely. One of the reasons that we've learned people wear masks even recently is because what they are doing is so gross, disgusting, and immoral. And they know that the way in which they're going to continue to do it is also gross, disgusting, and immoral that not only do they have to shield their identity, but it also serves to protect the identity of their loved ones. Who may also feel the fallout. Okay.

[1:02:26] Not that Londo's necessarily protecting his own loved ones in this particular case. I'm just making a point that wearing masks, whether literally or metaphorically, as I think we see Londo doing here, because what we're seeing here, this is not the real Londo. No. You know what I mean? Like this is a Londo that could be. This is a Londo that exists in there somewhere, but this is not who Londo truly is in his heart of hearts. This is not what he is. This is his mask. So whether you're wearing a mask physically, literally, or metaphorically, it is done because you know what you're doing is wrong. And it's so wrong that you have to protect your actual real identity, not only for yourself, but also for others who are close to you that may inadvertently get hurt because of your choices that you're making. Yeah. In which case I would simply say, make better choices. Yeah. Just do that. Just make better choices. And when you don't.

[1:03:37] Own it and do what you can to make it right. Yeah. I mean, dude, if you're going to go out and you're going to be a dill pickle to folks, if you're going to be a racist, if you're going to be whatever. Like, look, Lanier had his moment. I know you said that there was absolutely no intention on JMS's part to reveal some racism in Lanier, but he did. It was right there. You, we are not. You think you are like me, but you are not me. We are better. I mean, it was hardcore in your face. He didn't cover up. No. He owned it. That was Lanier. Yeah. And he immediately owned it. Yeah. Yeah. And by the way, we have definitely seen in Lanier, and I think we will see in Lanier, for as chill as he is, there's still some superiority with him. Oh, yeah. I mean, frankly, there's still some superiority with Dillon. With just the Minbari. Yeah. There's not a one that doesn't have it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, Jeff, that's Ceremonies of Light and Dark. Yep. I'm really curious with what's about to happen right now. Me too. Because I know what happened the first time we did this, and I just wonder where this is going to fall.

[1:04:51] Ultimately, in our 100% completely accurate and definitive ranking of Season 3 of Babylon 5 for the second time, this one did not wind up high on our list. No. Now, when I placed this one in the first time, because it was me, I put it at the bottom of the list. From our current list, it was at the bottom. And I said, this is not a bad episode in that I'm going to push it down and let everything else fill in. It's just going to find its way at the bottom. And if it goes lower, it's just because other episodes were better and not worse than this one. Turns out it wasn't even the lowest episode. Nope.

[1:05:31] There are two below it. I'm and then a blank space. It was 19. So when 19 is is Sarah was light and dark. 20 was walkabout. 21 was blank and 22 was late delivery from Avalon. That still feels really right, which just talks about how strong this episode is. Although I think we could discuss whether or not on on balance with everything. I think this episode gets a bit of a glow up. where does this fall in relation to something now like convictions and exogenesis and maybe even matters of honor or day in the strife. So Jeff, it is up to you, my friend, to place this in our 100% completely accurate definitive ranking. Our bottom five, I'm just going to go with bottom five because this is where we placed it last time. I don't think we're necessarily going to crack the top five. We might. I don't know. Jeff could surprise me, but I'm going to go with bottom five. Number six is voices of authority. Seven is day in the strife. Eight matters of honor. Nine In exogenesis, 10 convictions, Jeff, where does Ceremonies of Light and Dark go? As I look at the bottom five, a thing strikes me. Matters of Honor is where we meet Marcus.

[1:06:40] Exogenesis is where, like, Marcus lets loose, and we get to see him fully on display doing all of his stuff. And then we have ceremonies of light and dark. They gave us depth to Marcus and some really incredible moments. And a lot of backstory. And a lot of backstory. And him just being super cool at the card table. I mean, that whole scene. It's so good. So great. I find it interesting, these Marcus episodes, they're hanging out at the bottom so far. And it strikes me that it's disappointing that you can take these great Marcus moments and put them in some, I mean, not bad episodes, but some not great episodes. I mean, that's the thing. Like, the worst episode so far of season three, the worst we can say about it is it's just not great. Yeah. It's good. They're all good. It's not even that it's not good. It's just not great. like these others are great episodes this one is it's fine it's not bad it's not not good i mean we just went weeks number one number one number one number like just it was that over and over again it's not going to be this week and so as i look at this it's everything to me is hinging on two big points marcus being one the other one is that.

[1:07:54] As great as Marcus and Dylan were in this episode, my God, that whole Nightwatch Boggs thing was just, that was a complete, complete misfire. And not only in how it happened, but in the acting, the audio engineering. Oh, that was bad. It was unlistenable. And so I asked myself the question, is this better than Exogenesis?

[1:08:24] And it is this is a better episode than exogenesis exogenesis has the cool marcus moments and this really kind of interesting sci-fi storyline on the side that was inconsistent that didn't follow through the whole time and ultimately was a big nothing burger so it takes us to matters of honor it's better than matters of honor we meet marcus we get uh and dawi like it's the real like earth force really earth alliance really showing up and like starting to get their their fingers and stuff shadows we get the morden and earth force reveal the whole thing like it's some big stuff but is it better than ceremonies of light and dark where we get new uniforms right we get delen has a a bag full of wisdom a bag full of wisdom hot wisdom uh matters of honor is better than Ceremonies of Light and Dark. This is going to be the new number nine episode on this season so far. And it's not number eight because of the anchor of the Boggs story. I would have put it up over number eight. Really? I would have put it in at number eight. That was pivoting back and forth. I just... Okay. You know what?

[1:09:42] You're not wrong about that one. Well, guys, that's going to do it for Ceremonies of Light and dark we are done with this one for our second watch jeff another newish episode on deck for next week, Seek Transit Veer. Jaf, do you remember what your original prediction was for Seek Transit Veer? I do. Seek Transit Gloria Mundi. That's what they say for the Pope when a new Pope is elected. So I thought Veer was going to be crowned emperor in this coming episode. Yeah. What was your prediction? I said that I kind of went through a whole bunch of different ideas, But ultimately, Veer's ambassadorial role is going to change, and it winds up with him coming back to Babylon 5. Because, like, they clearly wrote him off the show. I didn't know why. I thought maybe, like, he had a kid and he had to go on some paternity leave. No, it turns out he got cast in another TV show and that TV show went bottom up pretty fast, apparently. So they get to bring him back. But that was my prediction was something's going to happen with his ambassadorial role and he's going to wind up back on Babylon 5 in his role. You know, as attache to Londo, you know, setting things right effectively.

[1:11:02] Which, if I remember what actually happens in the next week's episode. It's another not palate cleanser. Really? Yeah. I seem to remember it being a little bit more whimsical, but we'll find out. You're going to find out right here? You know which one is going to be whimsical? Late delivery from Avalon? Dude, King Arthur? Right? We're getting a King Arthur story? It's going to be so fun. Oh, my gosh. Creative and imaginative. It's going to, like, check all the boxes. Listen, I know they do a lot of King Arthur stuff through sci-fi over time and things, and it might be a bit overdone, but bring it. I mean, geez, dude, bring in bringing King Arthur, playing him forward just like just like Jack the Ripper. You know, we're going to find out that the Vorlons plucked him out of history, whatever the real Arthur was. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. And and they're going to they're going to put him back in here when he's most needed. And it's going to bring some moral guidance or something like that. Like what could go wrong? You'll find that out in two weeks. Next week, you're going to find out how light and whimsical seek transit veer really was.

[1:12:11] I hope you're thinking the same thing. I'm thinking when I say that, and it's going to be fun to watch next week as we meet Linda. See, once again, make sure you're subscribed wherever you're watching, wherever you're listening. You don't want to miss this. Is this the one with Linda? See? Yeah. Oh, I forgot. This is the one where we get her. Yeah. Oh, Okay, okay. Yeah. Not a palate cleanser. Okay. Not a palate cleanser. At all. And you'll see that because you're going to be subscribed. You're going to have left a rating or review all that kind of cool stuff. Uh, you might've even joined our Patreon at patreon.com slash bad nerds. There's a link down in the thing so that you can possibly, uh, become one of our council chambers members and be invited to our, our live recordings and crack us up during the whole thing and grant Jeff forgiveness and absolution for, uh, dumb things he said a couple of years ago. You might've got forgiveness, but you didn't get absolution. Oh, that's complete absolution. I'm a Catholic. It's how it works.

[1:13:10] But, uh, and now you use other cool stuff there as well. I would ask that you share the show. Uh, we've just come off some incredible episodes. We've got some more coming now. It's a great time to get people viewing this show and mean the absolute world to us. So thank you so much for being here. I'll see you next week until next time. We're going to, yeah, what's a, what's up, Brent? Jeff. Yes. Big old bag of hot air no listen you no we've we have we have hit me up all you can on the dylan thing it's done i'm absolved you sir are not you still owe us the chicky story and i am not gonna let you hit the button and get out of it this time what is the chicky story, Jeff, I told that story last week, No, uh-uh, you did not Yeah, I clearly, it was in Club 65 I clearly remember telling you that story last week I told everybody that story last week You know, I'm starting to think this is actually not a story at all, In fact, I think you are just a bag of hot air.