The Legacy of George Washington Carver with Curtis Gregory

0:04 Welcome to AMSEcast, coming to you from Oak Ridge, Tennessee, a global leader in science, technology, and innovation. My name is Alan Lowe, director of the American Museum of Science and Energy, and the K-25 History Center. Each episode of AMSEcast presents world-renowned authors, scientists, historians, policymakers, and everyone in between, sharing their insights on a variety of fascinating topics. Welcome to AMSEcast. Thanks so much for joining us. With a generous grant from the Institute for Museum and Library Services, or IMLS, we’re producing a series of AMSEcast episodes devoted to 250 years of American innovation, all to celebrate our nation’s upcoming semiquincentennial in 2026.

0:55 To help us do that today, we’re joined by Curtis Gregory, park ranger at the George Washington Carver National Monument, located in Diamond, Missouri. Curtis has been with the Carver National Monument for nearly 20 years, so we knew he was the person we needed to talk with about the remarkable legacy of innovation left to us by George Washington Carver. Curtis, thanks so much for joining us on AMSEcast. Hey. Well, thank you. And on behalf of the National Park Service, thank you for having me, as well as the National Park—or George Washington Carver National Park—be a part of this. This is wonderful. Thank you. Well—no, no, we appreciate you and our colleagues at the National Park Service Very, very much. I also greatly enjoyed learning more about George Washington Carver as I prepared to talk to you.

1:41 You know, I’ve known the story in general. I must admit, but when I dug a little deeper, so impressive his accomplishments. And I know that you talk about that every day. I’m sure it never gets old, though, but to me as a brand new topic, it was truly astounding in many ways. And one of those things is, you know, he went from being born enslaved in Missouri in 1864 to being a college graduate and professor by the time he was 30 years of age. I know it’s a big question, Curtis, but how did he manage to make that transition, that amazing transition? He had this drive that he would never, never give up. And he didn’t give up. There were several times throughout this journey where he could have given up.

2:24 And where I’m at here at the George Washington Carver National Monument is where Carver was born, and where he was born, enslaved, to a mother who was brought to this property in 1855 as an enslaved girl, about 13 or so. And she was brought here, she was owned by Moses and Susan Carver. And Moses and Susan Carver were a white couple who came to Missouri from Illinois about the 1830s. The property where we are at now, they started a big working farm. In 1855 they purchased one enslaved girl by the name of Mary. As a result of that, Mary had at least two children. George had another brother, Jim, and then George was born, we think about 1864 or so.

3:08 George’s father, we believe, was another enslaved individual who died in an accident before he was born. And so, George’s mother and brother all lived here for a short while together. And at the close of the Civil War, in southwest Missouri was pretty dangerous, and George and his mother were abducted—slave raiders, bushwackers, we’re not really sure who—and George and Moses Carver wanted to get them back, so he hired someone to go out to find them. And George was found, supposedly, we think, down in Arkansas, which is about 40 miles from where the park is located. But his mother was never found. And so, we’re not sure what happened to Mary. Did she die? Was she sold off into slavery, into deeper south or such?

3:52 But George was brought back to the Carver farm. That’s where he began to learn about the natural world when he had free time. And around the age of 13 or so, he decided that he wanted to leave to get an education. And that started his journey around the age of around the age of 13 or so, to leave Missouri—well, he stayed in Missouri for a short while—throughout Kansas, journeying for an education, and making his way to what is now Iowa State University, where he graduated with two degrees in agriculture. And he just had that determination that he would never, never give. And many, many obstacles in that journey to becoming the first black graduate from Iowa State University, with both Bachelor and Master’s degree in Agriculture.

4:40 And then went south to Tuskegee, Alabama, where he spent the rest of his life, which was about 47 years. But it all started on this small property in Diamond, Missouri, where this kid at that time just never, never, never gave up. Just a remarkable, remarkable story. You mentioned Tuskegee—of course, that’s where he gained international fame—then called—as I learned in my research, Carter, so you tell me, if I’m right—the Tuskegee Normal and Industrial Institute. Now, we know it as Tuskegee University. So, what can you tell us about that institute and the role also of another African American leader, Booker T. Washington, in hiring Carver at Tuskegee?

5:22 Great question. So, in 1896, while Carver was working on—while he was working on his master’s degree from what is now Iowa State University—at that time, it was Iowa Agricultural School—and he’s working on his master’s degree. Booker T. Washington found out about this young guy at Iowa and recruited him to come to Tuskegee to start the Agriculture Department. So, Carver finished his master’s degree, and by October of 1896, he was on his way to Tuskegee. Booker T. Washington helped start Tuskegee Institute in 1881 with another guy by the name of Louis Adams. Lewis Adams was really the founder of Tuskegee.

6:03 Booker T. Washington was the first what was known as principal, what we know today as president of Tuskegee. And he invited Carver to come and start the Agriculture Department in 1896. Booker T. Washington would often recruit the very best teachers that he could find. And again, he found out about Carver at Iowa. Carver had been in negotiations with another school in Mississippi to go to teach agriculture, but when Washington reached out to him, he went to Tuskegee. He seemed to be inspired by Booker T. Washington’s idea, what was known as the Tuskegee idea. And Tuskegee started out as a vocational and industrial school to help students to become more self-sufficient, and Carver believed in that mission, and he stayed at Tuskegee.

6:52 When he arrives in Tuskegee, can you just kind of give us the lay of the land? What was the state of agriculture in the south? And we know he’ll have a big impact on that, but what was the state of agriculture when he arrived at Tuskegee? When he arrived at Tuskegee, he saw the area to be so poor. That was his first time being in the South, in the rural south. Carver had grown up in the Midwest, had been in Iowa for several years, and when he took that train ride to Alabama for the first time, being in Macon County, Alabama, he saw a different world. He saw a different world, especially for rural black farmers.

7:33 He said that land was poor, the people were poor, and he just saw a different outlook on life in rural South. And so, by that point, when Carver got there, most of the farmers or the sharecroppers were still growing cotton. But as you know, the boll weevil cleaned out that section, or the south, devastated that area. And so Carver, when he got there, he was trying to think of other innovative ways so that farmers and farming families could be, you know, become more self-sufficient. And so, when he got there, he, you know, introduced—well, introduced to this section of Alabama, peanuts, and sweet potatoes, and different types of cash crops, where farmers and farming families could make a living.

8:24 Why did he turn to the peanut? He’s known especially for his work on the peanut innovations there. What led him to the peanut in the first place? Well, I think what led him to the peanut, Carver started working with the peanut in about 1903. And one of the things was, as we just talked about, the devastation of what the boll weevil did, several people, several farmers, and different groups were turning to peanuts as well as Carver because of the legume the peanut is a legume, and it put nitrogen back into the soil to make the soil nice and rich, and so then you could grow other things. And so, in this section of Alabama, there was an abundance of peanuts.

9:06 And so, Carver went into his laboratory and started to produce other uses of the peanut. Yeah, what are some of those uses? I know I was amazed again at the list of things that he came up with. Yeah there’s about 300 or 325 different uses, from different types of oils to paint stains. He had a patent on a ladies facial cream. And there’s inks, and dyes, and shoe polishes, and all sorts of different things, as well as, like, foods and things like that. Something that is important to—I like to get across, especially when we get a lot of students here, is that Carver didn’t really invent anything; he came up with different uses of the peanut, sweet potato, and soybean, and such.

9:52 Did he come up with the use of peanut butter? That’s something in popular culture, but I understand he did not. Am I correct? You’re correct. And you know what? We get that question all the time. We get a lot of visitors, like, I like George Washington Carver so much because he came up with peanut butter. And you know, we have to tell him, no, he didn’t really come up with peanut butter. I’m sure Carver made his own peanut butter, but as I mentioned before, Carver started working with peanuts about 1903 and peanut butter, really, the peanut butter that we know of the day came about 1895 or so, and from someone from the Kellogg family. In your gift shop there, do you sell peanut butter? No, we don’t sell any peanut butter, but we sell peanuts.

10:34 We sell peanuts, and kids can go out and grow their own grown peanut plant [laugh] . Oh, that’d be cool. I want to do that. Yeah. That’s great [laugh] . Yeah. And you can make your own peanut butter [laugh] . Fantastic. I love it. So, you mentioned earlier the sweet potato, too. I didn’t realize until getting ready for today that he also innovated with the sweet potato. What were some of the uses he found for that? So, the sweet potato is very interesting because Carver was known for the peanut, but the sweet potato was actually the first plant that he started working with right after he got to Tuskegee about 1897 because the peanut, it was easy to cultivate, and you could store it in the winter months, and it has a lot of nutritional value.

11:16 And that was really the first plant that he worked with, was the sweet potato. And with the sweet potato, he came with a lot of different things. One of the interesting things that be came up with—well, products—was a sweet potato flour. And this was really a result of the First World War. During the First World War, there was a lot of shortages of different goods, and one of the things was wheat. And Carver came up with a sweet potato flour that the federal government was very, very interested in working with the USDA in developing this sweet potato flour. And Carver was on his way of working with the USDA, but in 1918 as we know, the war ended, so there wasn’t really a use for it, but Carver would have probably been known, if that would have happened, as this sweet potato man, instead of the peanut man [laugh] . The peanut man.

12:07 Right. That’s really interesting stuff. There’s such an innovative mind. When he came up with these innovations, when he came up with these uses of the sweet potato and the peanut and other things, how did he get the word out? How did he communicate that beyond Tuskegee? When he first started, he would go to a lot of rural, like, black fairs, African American, like, fairs, he would go to churches, and he was be invited to speak, especially in the rural communities, on different—to farmers and such. And then when he became well known, really, after 1921, after he appeared before Congress, and when he became known as the peanut man, as we kind of think of him today as, he was offered speaking engagements and things around the country and things.

12:53 But he would go out into these rural communities, and he would often go, like I said, to fairs, and church groups, and talk about better ways of farmers improving their farms, and to sharecroppers, and such. Interesting. I’ve read about something called a Jesup Wagon. What was that? Yeah, so the Jesup Wagon was one of the ways where he would get the word out. The Jesup Wagon was a movable school. It was a movable school on wheels. This was kind of an innovation of Booker T. Washington. What Booker T. Washington wanted to do was have his teachers go out into the rural communities, into the really, really rural communities, and help and teach the people in these rural areas.

13:35 Well, they came up with this movable school idea, where they would take a school on wheels, and they would go out into the rural communities. And Booker T. Washington secured funds from a wealthy New York banker by the name of Morris Jesup. So, that’s where the name Jesup Wagon comes from. Carver designed the wagon, and he innovated the wagon, and put different, like, tools, they would put teaching techniques, teaching methods on the wagon, and they would take a wagon out at a church or at a fair, and they would set it up, and they would just teach farmers and farming families about different ways of improving themselves, as well as their soil and things. And so, this was about 1906.

14:17 And then shortly later, they got money for a truck that could even go out even further into these communities. And you know, the movable school was adapted by the USDA a little later. And so, it was a wonderful way of reaching people in far communities, especially these rural farmers, and for blacks and such in these areas. So, not just an innovator in uses of things like the peanut, but also an innovator on how to get that word out. Really fascinating. Yes, how to get the word out by pamphlets, by some of those agricultural bulletins, and such as well. So, you mentioned earlier, he became very well known, testified before Congress, was known around the world.

15:02 Can you tell us, perhaps, some of the famous people he met, and how did he leverage that fame to help support his work? Well, when he got to Tuskegee and he started working in agriculture in 1896, you know, he was known in the south, where he would go on speaking engagements, and when he was teaching, but really, the fame, really, to me, it really started after 1921 when he appeared before Congress. And some of the people that he met, one of the most famous that he worked with or met was Henry Ford. He and Henry Ford seemed to be great friends. There's a little bit of evidence that Thomas Edison may have known about him somewhat, but really one of the most famous was Henry Ford.

15:45 And he and Henry Ford were great friends. Some big names there together, for sure. So, when you look back at his work, what would you say his impact was on agriculture in the south, and really nationwide? It was his work with, you know, developing these different products, from sweet potatoes, and soybeans, and peanuts. But more importantly, I think what it was really was to help teach farmers and teach people, especially those rural farmers, about better ways of improving their lives, especially with the soil, so they could become more self-sufficient and helping people with food insecurities and things like that.

16:28 I think that was, really to me, that was the impact, and you can still see some of that today. What about innovators today? When you look at his way of doing things and the success he had, what lessons do you think innovators today can take from Carver’s example? A lot of people today look at some of the things that he tried to do with food insecurities and research developed different types of ways of helping people. You see that today at Iowa State University, you see that today at Tuskegee Institute, at the University of Missouri in the ag departments and things like that, where you can still see some of Carver’s some of his techniques today, but being much more advanced.

17:11 Now, I want to learn about the George Washington Carver National Monument, where I intend to come, Curtis. I’m excited about it now. I want to come learn more. What can we visit and do when I do get there? And when our listeners get there, what can you visit and what can you do there? Where I’m at, at the George Washington, Carver National Monument, as I mentioned, we’re a part of the National Park Service, and we have been here since 1943. Shortly after Carver died, the Congress established the National Monument in his honor. We’re the first park in the National Park Service dedicated to an African American, in 1943. And so, we are on the original property where Carver was born, a 240 acre farm. We have a visitor center, a 13,000 square foot visitor center.

17:55 We have three floors of exhibits, films on George Washington Carver. We have a little classroom that’s kind of like one of George’s laboratories at Tuskegee, where we do different types of experiments, and we offer guided tours. And it’s a wonderful property to learn about. George Washington Carver. We’re open seven days a week, nine to five, and it’s all on George Washington Carver, his life story, which started here in the little town of Diamond, Missouri. Wow. Where can our folks go to learn more and to plan their trip? We have our website on, if you just do a Google search of the National Park Service, you can find George Washington Carver National Monument. We’re on social media: Facebook, X, and you can learn about George Washington Carver on those platforms, or go to our website.

18:44 You can actually—visitors, if they’re planning their visit, they can actually go out there and see our park film on George Washington Carver, The Legacy of George Washington Carver: Triumph and Struggle, and you can watch the film out there as well. Just an amazing story, an amazing man, an amazing innovator. Curtis, I can’t thank you enough. I really appreciate you joining us in AMSEcast. Thank you so much for having us, and we look forward to you coming to the park, as well, as your listeners, as well. We’ll do it. Thank you so much. Thank you for joining us on this episode of AMSEcast. For more information on this topic or any others, you can always visit us at AMSE.org or find, like, and follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter.

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