Future-Focused Research with Dr. David Sholl

0:04 Welcome to AMSEcast, coming to you from Oak Ridge, Tennessee, a global leader in science, technology, and innovation. My name is Alan Lowe, director of the American Museum of Science and Energy, and the K-25 History Center. Each episode of AMSEcast presents world-renowned authors, scientists, historians, policymakers, and everyone in between, sharing their insights on a variety of fascinating topics. Welcome to AMSEcast. As we continue to celebrate 250 years of American innovation, it’s my real pleasure to welcome our guest on this episode, Dr. David Sholl.

0:44 He’s joining us here in person at the American Museum of Science and Energy. David is the Executive Director and Vice Provost at the University of Tennessee Oak Ridge Innovation Institute, or UT-ORII. He brings to that important position a wealth of past experience, including serving as School Chair of Chemical and Biomolecular Engineering at Georgia Tech, and as portfolio strategy advisor for DOE’s Office of Clean Energy Demonstrations. David’s been widely published, he’s been recognized for with a of awards, and he was made a member of the National Academy of Engineering in 2024. I should note that in addition to his leadership at UT-ORII, he also leads ORNL’s Transformational Decarbonization Initiative.

1:25 David, thanks so much for joining us at AMSEcast. Alan it’s great to be here. Great to see you here in person here at the museum. Let’s start with the basics, shall we? What is the mission of the University of Tennessee Oak Ridge Innovation Institute, or UT-ORII? Yeah, as the name suggests, it’s a joint initiative between the University of Tennessee system—so the University of Tennessee across the state, not just Knoxville—and Oak Ridge National Lab. And as many of your listeners know, Oak Ridge National Lab is the largest of DOE’s Office of Science labs. Just an amazing resource for the nation, but also for the state of Tennessee. There’s a really, really long history of partnership between the University of Tennessee and Oak Ridge, and really, UT-ORII’s mission is to continue that forward in many ways.

2:10 And so, we really want to make both institutions better by having them work together. So, a real bridge, a real conduit with those two huge and important institutions. I was curious, how do you work—you know, at one point, eons ago, I was the first director of the Howard Baker Center, now the Baker School at UT. I know they have that and the Bredesen Center. How do you work with those other centers there and with the other departments at UT? Yeah, so one of the things that we’ve done, UT-ORII has actually sort of brought together some of those existing connection points. You mentioned the Bredesen Center, so that’s now part of UT-ORII. Oh, I see. The Bredesen Center is, you know, an amazing program, I mean, really a model across the nation. It’s a set of three PhD programs where the students come to UT, they’re UT students, they get a UT degree, but they can do their PhD research with staff scientists at ORNL.

3:02 And I will tell you, when I go and visit other national labs, they are very, very jealous of that, but it’s—but to me, that’s a great example of the synergy between the two institutions because it brings wonderful things to UT in terms of what those students do, but there’s also a huge benefit to ORNL of having those bright, energetic young students be part of our research mission. You know, Lee Riedinger is on our board of directors at AMSE Foundation, and he is among the authors—the main author—of the book, Critical Connections. He’s talking about that whole UT-Battelle-Oak Ridge National Lab connection. It’s phenomenal to see how you have these two really good, great institutions, you bring them together, and it’s out of this world what they can accomplish.

3:43 And you’re right in the middle of that. Yeah, and I think, I mean, Lee’s book actually is a remarkable example of that, that if you look back in UT’s history, the first science graduate programs that UT came about to serve people at the Oak Ridge National La—what is now the Oak Ridge National Lab. It had previous names, of course. But as you said, that history of the connection between the two really goes back to the beginning of the National Lab Complex here. What are some of the areas of focus you have? What kind of research and issues are you undertaking? So, we’ve selected five areas that are both areas of national need, there are things where Tennessee can be a leader, and there are places where the two institutions can work together. So, those five things are: transportation and logistics; materials for fusion energy; radioisotopes for pharmaceuticals, so that’s treating cancer with radioisotopes; circular bioeconomy materials, so looking at agricultural products that can be put into value-added products; and then materials and methods for affordable housing construction.

4:43 All very important and all extraordinarily fascinating. I could talk to you for hours on [laugh] each— Right, right. Particularly as a fellow who grew up on a farm, and I’d love to hear the value-added with the bioeconomy. So—and in fusion. I mean, that’s amazing that we’re getting as close as we are to fusion with the work going on at ORNL and of course with Type One coming out of Oak Ridge. All these things, really, really interesting time in that arena as well. So, you do this research and you’re connecting then University of Tennessee with Oak Ridge National Lab. How does that connection work? And I don’t know if I’m getting to in the weeds here, but when you go over, do you say to the lab, we have a student interested in this, or how does that work? So, for these research initiatives—well, in fact, I’ll back up and I’ll say that UT-ORII has received extremely generous financial support from the state of Tennessee.

5:29 And so, we have state funds that enable us to hire researchers at the university. So, part of these research initiatives is hiring PhD-level researchers at the university who, you know, really drive forward this research. And then the lab has committed some of its resources, as it’s able to do, where we hire new staff members at the laboratory. So, in each of these research areas, we now have a cohort of new researchers who’ve come to the area who really drive energy. They then couple with existing experts both at the lab and with UT. And so, the idea is that with the seed money that we put into these initiatives that we really create this, you know, vibrant cohort of researchers that can develop their ideas and then eventually become self-sustaining and bring in the funding that, of course, they’ll need to sustain that effort in the future.

6:17 Sure. I assume going down the road, these are important topics. Are they flexible topics? Are there’s something you see in, you know, five or ten years you’re adding this or subtracting that from those topics you’re focusing on? As we were selecting these topics, we went through a very competitive process within the two institutions of people proposing ideas. One of the things that we wanted to look at was, do we think these are topics that will be, still, very, very important five to ten years from now? And so, I’ll take material for fusion energy as an example, right? That’s something that we hope in five to ten years, as a country, we’ve made amazing progress. It clearly will not be a solved problem and it will still be a highly interesting problem. And I think most of these topics are like that. They’re things that we see have very long-term tracks that people can run on.

7:02 But also, as I said, these are places where we really want Tennessee and East Tennessee to be true global leaders in these areas, not just one of many that does them. So, I’m curious, as you’re talking, I know over the last five years, almost six years since I’ve been here, which is amazing for me to say out loud, we’ve met with other groups who are with, like Innovation Crossroads and those types of organizations looking at specific ways of promoting innovation. Do you work with them? How do they fit into this atmosphere of innovation? Yes, so Dan Miller, who runs Innovation Crossroads, I hosted some visitors with him the other day at the lab. I agree. That’s an imp—one of the things that we really want to show, especially with this state investment, is a return on investment to the state’s taxpayers as we do these things.

7:47 That’s a big thing. And so, part of that is just that we’re bringing these brilliant PhD researchers—you know, there’s an influx of research dollars—but also ultimately, we’d like to have an economic growth within the state within these areas. And so then, you know, working with folks like Innovation Crossroads, all of the entrepreneurial things that happen at the university, and just sort of working broadly with folks within the state, we want to grow those things over time. You work with the state. Obviously, they’re a big supporter. Are there other federal entities or businesses that you’re working with at this point? Yeah. So, obviously being part of the DOE system that, you know, we work closely with the, you know, the various parts of the DOE that would fund these things and try and align ourselves with those national priorities as well.

8:29 So again, that was part of choosing these topics of thinking these areas are true national need, but also where we think we can drive, you know, ultimately economic growth in this region as well. So, I’m always curious, we try to look at best practices here, and when this was being put together, did you say this is a model we want to replicate, or are now people looking at you saying this is something we want to replicate across the country? Well, we certainly hope that we can be a model for other national labs. I, in fact, was at Sandia National Lab just last week, talking to their folks, and it’s very useful for us to exchange information like that. I do think that we found that the Bradison Center as an educational program really is something that’s an admired model elsewhere around the country.

9:12 We of course do look to other universities and to other labs to understand what they’re doing, but I think there’s a number of things that we’re doing that are really rather unusual, and so we’re sort of laying a trail in terms of doing that. Oak Ridge is always unique, leading the way. Yeah, we’re trying to. That’s right [laugh] . We work with a lot of kids here, a lot of students coming in, all ages. My favorite part of this job is seeing how we can be a positive influence with them and STEM and STEAM. What do you think, as we work with them, what’s the best practice or among the best practices, for inspiring this innovative mindset that we want them to have walking out the door and as they go into the adult world? Yeah, that’s a great question. I think that—and I’m sure you do this very effectively—it’s just to show them how science and technology actually influences their everyday life.

10:00 And you and I are old enough to look at a lot of the technology we have and to realize this is all new to us, right? But for children today, they’re just immersed in it and they don’t. So, I think that’s maybe—and I’m sure it’s a challenge you’ve thought about very carefully—is just how to get all of our kids, regardless of what they’ll do in the future, just understand the influence of science and technology. Very much so. I think part of what I’ve said educators here, and will continue to say, is we need to be part of that STEM and STEAM education for those kids who want to be in some way in that world, workforce development and that type of thing, but also I want, if a kid comes in here and he wants to be—or he or she—wants to be a poet, that they at least have this grounding in science and engineering and technology, that they understand the world around them better.

10:45 And you’re right, I grew up on a farm in Kentucky, again I’ll say that, and I would have loved to have had the internet, a cell phone, all these things we have now that people take for granted that are revolutionary, really, in how our world works. I’m going to go from kids to the nation. So, I’m going to increase the challenge to you, David. So, 250 years. You look at American history, it’s pretty phenomenal of how we’ve led an innovation, I’m not putting down our friends across the world, but my goodness, our history is pretty phenomenal. How do we keep that leadership role and innovation for the next, maybe 250 years is too long, but for the foreseeable future, how do we keep that edge? Actually, I think my answer is similar to what you asked about our kids today, which is that the more that everybody in our nation appreciates what a national treasure our innovation approaches and ecosystems are, that’s the goal to keeping it going.

11:37 I think there’s a real risk that because we’re in a country that is so technology advanced that we don’t realize the advantages we have compared to many places in the world, that we take it for granted. And I myself tend to do that, right? So, I think that’s probably a challenge. I think there’s a real challenge, and you think about science and technology writ large, that we don’t truly know where the big innovations will come from in the future. And so, one of the real strengths historically, I think, in the US, certainly since the 1950s, has been very broad-based investment in R&D, trusting that that will bear fruit in the future.

12:20 And so, you know, my personal hope is that we’ll continue to do that as a nation. And do worry about that of having such a specific focus in some areas that you’re missing the opportunities that basic R&D will provide that you don’t know right now, this new area that would open up for our future. I’ll add though, at the same time because we talked about Innovation Crossroads and entrepreneurs who take ideas to market and so on, my experience working in academic engineering, and now at the National Lab, is there is huge value in active researchers being in contact with real world problems. It doesn’t mean everyone has to work on that on next year’s problem. There’s always some give and take, and I think that’s an important thing for everybody in the research realm to do.

13:04 I think there’s room and a need for both. I think, absolutely. I’m going to put this in as an old history major, too, of saying, I think it’s important to know how we’ve gotten from there to here. And you understand that process better, then you understand how to get into the future better. It certainly gives you that perspective, that understanding. I’m sure our listeners will want to learn more about UT-ORII work. Can they go online to learn more about what you’re doing? Yeah, so our website is simple. It’s UT-ORII.com, and it has an overview of all of our programs, and ways to contact us if they’d like to do that. Doing great things. Thanks so much for talking to us on AMSEcast. I appreciate it. Great pleasure. Thank you. Thank you for joining us on this episode of AMSEcast.

13:46 For more information on this topic or any others, you can always visit us at AMSE.org or find, like, and follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. I invite you to visit the American Museum of Science and Energy and the K-25 History Center in person. You can also shop at our online store and become a member at AMSE.org. Thanks to our production team with Matt Mullins, plus our supportive colleagues at the Department of Energy’s Office of Science, Office of Environmental Management, and Office of Legacy Management, as well as Oak Ridge National Laboratory, the Y-12 National Security Complex, NNSA, and the AMSE Foundation. And of course, thanks to our wonderful guests today, and to all of you for listening.

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