All Things Audio podcast

Episode 85

Madalyn Sklar 0:03

Hey, this is Madalyn Sklar

Suze Cooper 0:05

and Suze Cooper and you're listening to All Things Audio. Let's dive right in. We're going to start off with Twitter Spaces as we always do. But this one is a shocker, Madalyn as a top story, don't you think?

Madalyn Sklar 0:23

Yeah, Twitter is removed captions from spaces on iOS. You know, I kind of noticed this recently. And I was wondering, like, why am I not seeing and it was also same with web and Android. And I guess I just wasn't putting it all together until I saw this tweet. I was like, wow, you know what? That's right. I have not seen the captions in a while. And it actually is not much of a surprise, because we know Elon got rid of the whole accessibility team some time back. And I loved how Twitter was so into accessibility, and having all these great features to help people with these needs. But I guess with this, the new Twitter 2.0 We're, they're trying to trim the fat and not need as many engineers, I guess some of these features we've grown so accustomed to are no longer with us.

Suze Cooper 1:19

Yeah, I mean, I just assumed it was a glitch. There have been a few things over the last month, you know, including going live on spaces that then no one can join those kinds of things that have been happening. And I just assumed that captions disappearing was one of those things that would have gone away, but we'll come back. But understand now that they have actually candidate. Oh it's a real disappointment, as you say, you know it's a real big thing for me that the content that I create is accessible. And I just think it's very short sighted to lose captions for spaces. Yeah, I mean, so it's gone from iOS, this tweet says they also don't work on the web or Android. I mean, it feels kind of unlikely that they're coming back.

Madalyn Sklar 2:10

That's what I'm beginning to think that is just something they're not going to have available. Because it's just, you know, there. I just feel like they're just trimming things like trimming off the fat and just trying to get rid of things that he doesn't think are necessary, I think is necessary. I can tell you one of my very first spaces two years ago, there was a young lady, I didn't even know her but she had reached out to me, and she's hearing impaired. And she was so excited that even at the beginning of spaces, they had captions. It wasn't great. In the beginning, it didn't work all that great, but it did work. And this young lady stayed on one of these first spaces I hosted for almost two hours, I was doing this because it was new and exciting. And we were all just chatting away. And she was there the entire time reading the captions and taking part in the conversation, which I thought was amazing. So why exclude people why not have captions? Why take that away?

Suze Cooper 3:11

This is it. I mean, one thing I loved about social audio is that it it opens up a world and make things accessible for people. You know, you can listen into something for for those. For those people who are hard of hearing the captions were their route into joining us here on social audio, you know, and it just seems so wrong to Yeah, be be exclusive, basically excluding those people. Just by getting rid of that feature, it seems crazy in my head, and if I can work out a way that people can get live captions while we're live in this space. Rest assured I will make sure it happens because I just think it's so important. And it's not only the hard of hearing that we'll be using captions, either. There are some people who will want to follow what's being said through text for whatever reason, they can't have the audio on. Perhaps they're more of a visual person than an audio person, but they still want to be included. You know, there's just so many reasons, short sighted, short sighted and what was this this verge article that we've got in this tweet that's that's linked in this tweet. The last line of it says it all really Twitter didn't immediately respond to a request for comment, though the company dissolved its press office as part of last year's layoffs. I mean, that says it all really doesn't it. And leads us into our next story, which is all about the cuts again, at the weekend, more of our beloved spaces, engineers, designers, people that we got to know in the early days of spaces have gone from Twitter as of the last few days. And Morgan actually tweeted out to say after the weekend's dismissals. It's possible nobody is tasked with maintaining Twitter spaces. It really does feel a bit like that right? Right now, doesn't it?

Madalyn Sklar 5:00

Yeah, there's like this whole new round of people being fired from Twitter and sadly, some people that you have worked on spaces over the past weathers more recently, or over the past two years, Esther Crawford, Leah Culver and Quyn, who we all have gotten to know. You know, really sad, especially Quynn. Quynn has been part of the team, I believe Android, right? When she on the Android part of spaces.

Suze Cooper 5:30

Yeah. She did the awesome space with Joselin, where they would like live bug bust, wouldn't they on a Friday, they would go through anything people had found wasn't working. And they would kind of figure it out between them then and there, or Quynn would take it away and bring it back the next the next week. I mean, it was an amazing space to listen to. And she was just so approachable. And you know, really explained a lot about the roadmap and what they were looking at and how they were trying to make spaces work. Yeah, a real a loss.

Madalyn Sklar 6:07

yeah, so a real shame to hear about that just from a few days ago, but Twitter is still making lots of changes. But hey, spaces are still here. Although Twitter has been having a lot of issues as of the recording today, which is March 1. When I first got on Twitter this morning, one of the trending hashtags was Twitter down. I'm like, Oh, that's not good. I didn't have any issues with it being down. But I did do a little bit of research. And a lot of people were having issues. I don't know if it's just one part of the world or if people all over the world are having issues. I myself have not experienced it. But then again, trying to be the co host today in this space. I have never had such an issue getting on like I did today that that was really interesting. And it even showed me that there was an error. I don't think Twitter is acting up today. But we're kind of getting to the point where we're conditioned to this. Now, Suze, we're not as surprised when Twitter acts up.

Suze Cooper 7:02

No you're right. I mean, in the last, I think the last four All Things Audio spaces, there's been something at the start of each one. The biggest one was the week where I set the space up three times before anybody else could get in. And I was like talking to myself for two minutes before I realised that no one else could actually come in. It wasn't that you weren't there, you just literally were trying to hit the link. And there was nothing. But there seems to have been something every week. And I think even last week, we had a guest that joined us and Michael was co hosting with me. And I couldn't give the mic again. Like I could see he'd requested the mic, but I couldn't actually give him access to the mic. So Michael had went ahead and did that in the end. But I think he probably thought I was ignoring the person but I wasn't I just couldn't add it just I tapped it and nothing happened. So I think they've just been odds and ends of things that aren't working as smoothly as we are used to. Equally I'm getting used to the fact that something is glitchy. And I have to say when I spend this space up tonight, I did kind of think, well, they might be able to get in or they might not. You know what's going to happen in the next 10 minutes. What we have to deal with, though, had my eye on my notifications and my DMs just in case. But yeah, it seems to becoming the norm that you're sort of waiting to fight the fire with, with a live space rather than just being able to enjoy being live and, you know, doing what we enjoy doing, which is this.

Madalyn Sklar 8:30

Exactly. I feel like Twitter is back to being a startup don't know what's going to happen when you arrive.

Suze Cooper 8:39

But it's not putting people off using spaces Madalyn…

Madalyn Sklar 8:42

I tell you that's been the best thing and all this Suze because in the beginning with the Elan takeover, I was very concerned his Twitter gonna still be here are people going to still be using it? I am just so happy to say I don't know people. I mean, we hear about celebrities like getting fed up and they don't want to be here anymore. Although a lot of them secretly do come back. But a lot of our peers are not ditching the platform. I'm it seems like people are using it more than ever, which I'm thrilled about. So that's a good thing.

Suze Cooper 9:13

Yeah, and certainly the February stats from our friends at spaces dashboard, I can spy in the live space right now Andrew, show that there is more than enough social audio content being created by people in fact, Andrew’s spaces dashboard stats for February show 1,171,168 spaces were created in February, which I believe is an increase from January despite February being a short month. I mean, that's not to be sneezed at it. I mean, I I sent that I retweeted that earlier and actually tagged Elon in, you know, just as you do and sort of said you you are seeing this Right, you're seeing these numbers, you understand people are actually really engaged with this and doing things with it. Because it does make you wonder, you know, we're talking there about the glitching. And the maintenance of it and the upkeep and the cutting people out from being able to join in by taking the captions away. Yet you've got a million spaces more being created in a month in 28 days. It seems bonkers.

Madalyn Sklar 10:29

It really is. I really have to say, I think Elon Musk should be credited with really putting spaces on the radar for a lot of people when he came on those ones initially, you know, months back, where you have like 2 million listeners over a 24 hour period. You know, we here we all get the power of Twitter spaces. We've all been using it a long time. But I think there's been plenty of people, whether they were active on Twitter or not, when Elon took over, that weren't really that familiar with spaces and just didn't get how powerful it could be. And I think that really drew a lot of people in to be like, hey, I really need to start hanging out here and look at all these different places I can connect with people. Maybe I should start my own space. I think it really sparks an interest in a lot of people. It's been impressive to see these numbers rise dramatically month over month.

Suze Cooper 11:23

Yeah, yeah, it really has. And it's just, it's frustrating not knowing what the plan might be for spaces. Morgan actually drew our attention to a tweet yesterday where Elon Musk was in another space he was in another one yesterday but it was only nine minutes long. And he was testing out a mic with somebody. And apparently the entire time they were kind of messing around with the soundboard playing with your your favourite tool Madalyn the voice transformer. And just kind of having a bit of a giggle with it. But it kind of came across as though they had no idea that spaces had those features, which is you know, quite I don't know if that's worrying, surprising, annoying. I'm not sure. But yeah, it just, I just wonder if he knows what he's sitting on. So let's talk clubhouse. Now. We have a couple of updates here from our Clubhouse correspondents. Michael Sterling to begin with has tweeted this week about the enhanced profiles that are being added to clubhouse on the web. He says there are there's more profile text, you can add social links, you can see the next two events that the user has RSVP to. And you can replay the last three recorded rooms they spoken or tap into the four largest clubs they admin. I mean, that's a heck of a lot of information about a person in a profile. Yeah, it feels like clubhouse is going all in to make sure that you find people that you are aligned with and can connect with and really kind of filling out that area where you learn about one another before you might want to dive in and have a conversation. I mean, over here on Twitter, we have the little bio section Madalyn. Can you ever see that kind of being expanded in this way? Do you think we should have like the should it automatically show perhaps the last space that we've hosted or spoken in? What do you reckon?

Madalyn Sklar 13:23

Oh, yeah, that would be amazing to have I love these new features that clubhouse is now offering. Yes, I would love to see that with Twitter as well. Wouldn't it be amazing that people could see like, very easily from our profile, the next two events we have coming up and replace from the last three, even if it's just the last replay our most recent replay if you're I think if your host co host or speaker that can be powerful that if I'm on your profile, I can see the last space you spoken. And click on that and tune in first of all, that would totally add more to the replays. Because I think it would pique a lot of people's interest.

Unknown Speaker 14:06

Yeah, I mean, I tend to I pin the the most recent space that we've done Madalyn so the most recent All Things Audio is generally my pinned tweet until Friday when I then switch that out for the podcast link. And then I start promoting next week's one early the week after so kind of Monday, so I'll change the pin tweet again to the card for the next one. But if it was automatically there and not taking up my pin space, you know, my pinned tweet real estate if you like, that would be amazing. You know, even in that in that section on the mobile where used to have if you had like a review newsletter, there'd be a button there. That would be great, wouldn't it if it just kind of showed that and I know we're all crazy about you know, scheduled spaces and being able to schedule spaces, as you say having those next upcoming ones that you've scheduled available to people so they can set that reminder when they visit your profile. I think that would be that would be brilliant. So Oh, yeah, hopefully once things do get underway with spaces, and perhaps things might start being changed and altered and updated, maybe they can follow a bit of a lead from clubhouse and give us something nice like that, because I think we'd all like that.

Madalyn Sklar 15:14

I agree. I hope so. But we'll say and I see that Andrew from from spaces, dashboards here, what I typically do is I say, you know, I link to my spaces dashboard profile, because people can easily go there to see what upcoming spaces I have, and set a reminder. So I typically will direct people there to see what I have coming up so they can see the replays from previous spaces I've hosted co host in or spoken, as well as see the upcoming space that I'm going to be speaking in are set up. And so you know, I'm still just such a big fan of spaces dashboard is such a great go to platform for all thing Twitter spaces. So I'm sure Andrew is happy right now that you know, he can get all this traffic because of the lack of information Twitter puts in our profiles, it would, I feel like it would be a game changer if they did follow in what clubhouse is doing here, being able to see the upcoming events being able to easily get to those replays. There's no simple easy way to access replays of spaces in Twitter. Makes no sense to me. But all you got to do is go to spaces dashboard. And you can go see all the replays of this space, all things audio super easily, you can go back and see all the replays on my twitter smarter spaces of my Twitter profile review spaces. Thank God we have this platform. Thank you, Andrew. And now Andrew is not a sponsor of this podcast. We just We love his service. We love what you absolutely love what he does. Great free website spaces Check it out if you've not done so before.

Suze Cooper 17:01

Well, this next bit of clubhouse news, Madalyn, I'm not sure I like as much. Morgan actually drew our attention to this just before we went live today. This is clubhouse, adding location, so you can put into the app where you are in the world. And it will match you with people and houses. So clubs, houses, clubhouse houses that are being hosted by people who are near to you. I'm not sure what I think about this. I mean, Morgan elaborates; he does, he does kind of say that, you know, clubhouse aren't using the GPS tracking from your phone, they're not sort of using that phone location, function. It is private, and it doesn't show on your profile. So it is literally used as a recommendation tool to connect you with other people in your area that uses the club that use the clubhouse app. But yeah, I haven't fully thought it through as to whether or not this would be a good idea. Yeah. What's your initial thoughts on it? Madalyn?

Madalyn Sklar 17:58

Well, I mean, when I look at this tweet, my first reaction is, what are they taking my exact location? Like it, you know, kind of just makes me nervous, like, okay, they their people gonna know where I'm at? Is that a good thing or not? I mean, I think there just needs to be more clarity. I mean, he does say in the screenshot, your location will not appear on your profile. So what exactly are they doing? How are they doing it? I'd want more details disclosed before I would want to have that information. If it's just a matter of it's just your city and you're in a big city. Well, that's one thing. Right? But how far it is a drill down to where you're at.

Suze Cooper 18:46

Yeah, and I think this is a thread from Morgan that we're showing here in the in the nest and and we'll also add to the shownotes. The podcast. Morgan does elaborate on it and says clubhouse doesn't request your phone's actual location, this doesn't use location services, or track your whereabouts. You enter the place, you want to meet people, and you can change it whenever. So it's basically you giving a piece of information. So as you say, Madalyn say you were in London, and you were over here for a bit. And you wanted to see who else was around that, you know, from clubhouse, I'm guessing you could tell the app that you're in London, and it would then recommend to you people that you know, or by, you know, by association, you might be interested in meeting that use the app as well. So, but equally, you could then change that place back when you go home or when you travel around the UK on your, you know, taught tour of the country. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe it maybe it would be useful that

Madalyn Sklar 19:44

Could be useful that could be valuable. Definitely when you're travelling, or maybe you live in the suburbs, you're coming into the big city and you know, you want to be able to connect with people in the area. I mean, I can definitely see where there's value in that. I would just want to be super clear. You're in this day and age of where we're also concerned with security and privacy to make sure that I think it needs to just be more than a small print of saying your location will not appear on the profile. Well, you know, I want to like explain what exactly is it doing? What you know, is it just I type in his city and that's, that's all it's using? Or what I don't know. I just think it just needs to keep us more informed exactly what it's trying to do.

Suze Cooper 20:26

I mean, in recent weeks as well, Madalyn we've seen you know, we've had story after story after story about the new features that clubhouse are potentially working on a lot of them have been kind of leaks I guess from sort of reverse engineered tweets that we've seen, you know, Alessandro Paluzzi tweets have been keeping us in in lots of clubhouse news, but you know, they're working on it a heck of a lot of things. And I don't know, I think I said last time when there was an awful lot of clubhouse news, this might be one thing one step too far. I kind of feel like oh, clubhouse, please calm down. You're doing a lot of things right now. I think you just need to sit back. And I don't know, we need to see which of these things are going to, they're going to fly with, they're really going to go with. And the actual app itself just needs a little bit more clarity and streamlining All told, let alone with something like this, which is you say he's kind of leaning on people's data and their their location, all of that kind of thing? I think, yeah, it, it feels like they need a bit of a tidy up over there. In a way, you know, just to tidy things up a bit. Make sure everybody knows how everything's working, what they're doing what they're not doing. But yeah, kind of an extra thing. This feels like just an extra thing that perhaps we don't need right now. But yeah, yeah, really interesting. Interesting for them to think of it anyway. And you know, also, what they're essentially doing is taking people off of their app so that they're suggesting that people use their app to find other people, I'm guessing so they can actually meet them in real life in that location, to have a drink to have a coffee. Which actually takes them away from clubhouse, which is an interesting thought,

Madalyn Sklar 22:09

Oh, that is an interesting thought. Yeah, interesting take on it.

Suze Cooper 22:13

So we have a couple of bits of news from other social audio apps from around and about. And a couple that we haven't actually mentioned for a few weeks Madalyn, mainly because they've not really been doing very much not been up too much, or at least not publicly been up too much. The first one is a bit of news on Amazon Amp, there is a tweet here from Matt Sandler who is a co founder of Amp, which is Amazon's version of social audio. And this is saying that replays are coming to Amazon Amp, which they haven't had before. So there is still one of the big names in the game, kind of thinking about new features developing and adding something to a social audio offering. I mean, this was always a very closed one, it was an invite only thing it was very much kind of US Space difficult to kind of access even from from over here in the UK. But you know, they wouldn't be adding replays if they didn't see a value in doing that. And if people weren't using it at all. So clearly, they've got some creators on there. They feel like replays will add value to that. And yes, there we go. We can now listen to replays on Amazon Amp. Well, you can Madalyn!

Madalyn Sklar 23:34

Right, right. Right, right. Yeah. I haven't even played with Amazon Amp in so long. I mean, I just thought it was, you know, dying a slow death. So interesting that it's still hanging on. But I agree with you, adding replays, I think that's showing they're still breathing life into it and keeping it going.

Suze Cooper 23:51

Yeah, and you know, some of the others *sigh* I'm still so frustrated by LinkedIn. I know that isn't one that's on our list, Madalyn. But I'm so sad about it. Why is it still sat there not doing anything?

Madalyn Sklar 24:02

That just makes no sense to me. I think if there was any social platform, social audio platforms, separate from Twitter spaces and clubhouse, which had been the two biggest I think if there was any other one that could compete, it would be LinkedIn live, it makes sense. That would be LinkedIn. And I think this, you know, we talked about it so many times here, what a missed opportunity.

Suze Cooper 24:24

And it just seems like they're not developing it at all. I mean, we've literally not heard anything from them in the best part of a year, I would say at this point.

Madalyn Sklar 24:32

And I've mentioned multiple times that if they, you know, put more resources into it, and they had replays available, I would definitely be spending more time on it, and I would be using it. I would still be using spaces. I'm not going to stop using it. But I would spend more time over there to see what can I build over there in the LinkedIn space, you know, the LinkedIn communities over there because let's face it, the different social media platforms You can really build separate communities on and I don't spend a lot of time on LinkedIn. But we know is a valuable platform when it comes to business. And I think if they had that live audio, in better shape than it currently is, I would definitely put some time and effort into it.

Suze Cooper 25:20

I mean, even those who were creators over there and spending an awful lot of time, regularly putting out social audio content on LinkedIn, audio events, even they have stepped back and kind of going well, you know, what's happening with this, like, it's really hard to let people know that we're going live with stuff, it's really hard to everything about it is difficult, you know, it's difficult to promote it difficult to get people in. There's no replay, as you say. So it's it's been gone, you know, is literally live or not at all. So if people aren't hanging about on LinkedIn with the time to jump into your audio event at that very moment, then you know, they don't even have the opportunity to go back and, and listen again, when they do have a chance. And all of the other platforms have brought replays in. So it's, it's yeah, a crazy one. Anyway, as I say, I digress. And next bit of news is actually from Spotify live from Chris Messina which is a tweet from last week, which says Spotify live isn't dead. Now, I was absolutely certain this one was dead. So this has definitely piqued my interest. He says they're testing exclusive page shows for Premium subscribers. So for $9.99, you basically get the chance to jump into what we would recognise as a Spotify live room associate audio room with your favourite artists, this is like a digital event, you can have an opportunity to talk to the artist, if you've paid this premium cost. If you don't pay the cost, then you can hang around and listen. But you won't be able to participate. Now, there's no guarantee that by paying for your your premium ticket, you're definitely going to get to speak to this artist. But this listening party will basically be around an hour long. And yet, if you buy this extra premium ticket, you might get a chance to ask your favourite artist a question or two. What do you reckon on this?

Madalyn Sklar 27:20

Yeah, this is super interesting. I like that they're, you know, going in this direction, I think it would have been better if more people are using Spotify live, they're promoting it more, you already have artists using it. And it's like, and then for $9.99, you can do even more with these artists and talk to them. I mean, how many people are over there using Spotify, Spotify live just as a social audio platform? I mean, do you think they're doing this to draw more attention in and get people using it? Because a lot of people are not going to pay a fee to use it? Or see the value in? You know, alright, $10? What am I gonna get out of it? I don't know. Not quite sure.

Suze Cooper 28:07

I'm assuming that basically, you would, in the actual Spotify main app, you would say be listening to your favourite artist, but on their on their kind of page where you've got their profile and the discography. And all of that would be events, or somesuch, where you can then click through to see what live events they're selling tickets for. Now, whether or not they the event is then hosted over on Spotify live or brought into the main app? I'm not sure. I don't know whether they would keep it all in one place, or whether there still would push people out to the other app. Yeah, I don't know. But I guess it makes sense that in the Spotify main app, on that profile page, it allows that artists to have all of that information about them. And, you know, offer the fans who are going to be the ones most interested in paying that premium ticket. You know, that's that's where they will click initially, I'm guessing from the main app. But yeah, I mean, it was always confusing that it was two separate apps anyway. And they did kind of integrate it a little into Spotify may not. But you could still use the standalone app. So yeah, I mean, confusion about but I think it's interesting to see them adding social audio as like a premium layer. Because yes, you can join, just to listen, but it's part of that, like exclusive I'm a super fan type vibe, isn't it if you've got if there is that extra layer, extra gloss that you can get by paying, it does kind of feel like it's a bit of a special experience to be involved in that. So just interesting that that's what they're going after for for for Spotify users really

Madalyn Sklar 29:53

Very interesting for sure be it'll be interesting to see how this starts panning out and if it works that way People will pay the premium for this. But I would first like to see like, Okay, but what about a free version? Like, what can you do in the free version to draw me in, get me to use Spotify live in the first place. And then I'd be more willing to pay that $9.99 For a chance to talk to an artist that I really, really like, you know what I'm saying? Like I think they're like, hoping like, oh, well, let's just charge a premium. Because who wouldn't want to pay for that? If this is an artist and like, but you don't really know what you're getting into? If people aren't using the platform in this way? What's this? You can't even predict what the experience is gonna be like. That's why it's like, why aren't we hearing more about, like, free versions of this to just draw fans in to begin with. And you go, wow, that was so cool. Hearing this q&a with this awesome artists I love, I will definitely pay to have more of that. You know, I'm saying like, just enough to draw those fans in to begin with, I just don't ever hear about Spotify live, doing much of anything. So it's like they're banking on the fact? Well, if they're super fans out there, they'll pay no matter what it is. Maybe they're not familiar with Spotify live, but for $10, we're going to try to bring them over. I don't know if that's gonna work.

Suze Cooper 31:17

Yeah I don't know, I guess what they would say is that their free tier is just you joining as an audience member, so you can join and be in the audience and just listen, and that's free. And then if but if you but when you pay, you get even Yeah, when you pay, you get the opportunity to talk to whoever's on the stage. So the artist, you know, you can ask them a question, and you can chat with the other people who've got the mic, as well. But it is only the opportunity to do that you wouldn't necessarily guaranteed to be there.

Madalyn Sklar 31:50

Right? Right. Right, right. But do you think they've been already because I don't ever hear about Spotify live anymore? Do you think they've already been doing free versions like that with artists to just get people interested in coming to Spotify live, just to begin with, like, Hey, we're, come Come join us for this. We're going to talk to the artists and you can listen in. And so yeah, they're not getting the chance to talk to the artists themselves. But just just the fact that they're doing this on somewhat of a regular basis to just bring the attention to music fans said, Hey, we've got some of your favourite artists here. And we're doing this thing and it's really cool. And for a premium, you get even more but like just to just draw them in. Because who who do we know that even talks about? Like, I have not heard somebody go, man, I've been on the Spotify live with Beyonce. And it was so amazing. I was able to be on there for free and just listen to her talk. And they were interviewing her it was so cool. They don't do stuff like that.

Suze Cooper 32:49

No. And as far as I understood it kind of the end of last year, they kind of really cleared out the people that they lined up to speak on Spotify live and it kind of really diminished to next to nothing happening over there at all, along with the kind of exclusive podcasts that they'd funded and different things. And it was very much to kind of clear out. So I guess, along with a lot of the reshuffles that have gone on on these platforms in recent months. This is a feature that needs to pay its way or get on its way perhaps maybe that's what they're how they're looking at it at this point, because, you know, we did have it for free. We did have, you know, and we couldn't you and I could never understand why they didn't have more artists on there who had access to their catalogue. Playing stuff….

Madalyn Sklar 33:42

Right. I was waiting for them to do that is I just kept thinking, if Spotify was smart, they would like bring some of these, you know, big artists in to draw the attention. I mean, let's go back to for a moment earlier, we're talking about Elon Musk and Twitter spaces. He joins Twitter spaces for that first q&a interview months back, and 2 million people listen to it in a 24 hour period. That was huge for Twitter spaces just on its own right, it just drew all this attention. I guarantee you probably half the people that listened to that where they had never been on a Twitter space before. But that brought them in, and it's like, well, what is Spotify live doing to just draw people in just in general, to get you over there? You know, before they start down this road of let's start charging and provide even more for the fee. It's like, well, what are you doing to just bring people there in general? Why not? You know, get these artists they have these relationships with all these artists. I just never understood why they didn't utilise that.

Suze Cooper 34:49

No, they need to be listening to All Things Audio. We have all the ideas *laughs*

Madalyn Sklar 34:56

*laughing* We've got good advice for them

Suze Cooper 34:58

And they can either listen live or on the podcast version and Madalyn, great segue here, you have a fantastic new recording setup. Tell us about it

Madalyn Sklar 35:09

I do. I have a brand new setup today you guys are the first I'm experimenting with this. Big shout out to George Silverman for sharing a video of his setup. I've been asking him for a while I'm a visual learner, I just need to see it. And because he has mentioned, you know, it's funny, when I think back, he's mentioned a million times on spaces that I've been a part of, oh, yeah, I use a zoom PodTrak P4 before that just always kept going in one ear and out the other I needed to see it, I need to see what this is. Learn more about it. So he made this great video walking. I know you saw it too. So is where he just walks through his setup when he's in Twitter spaces. And in these past two years that I've known him in Twitter spaces, he always sounds so great is because he's using his nice podcast mic, which is such a difference from what I had been doing here. Every week, just use the I was using my air pods, which is Bluetooth, but the microphone sounds really bad in spaces. That's been my experience. People said don't use Bluetooth. So then I switched to just the old school air pods, you know the or earbuds with the cord that you know that we used to get with our iPhone years ago. And when we're hearing spaces, I just plugged that in my phone. And that's how you all normally hear me live in spaces or for the replay of spaces. But at the same time, I have a separate device also a Zoom recorder zoom h5 recorder to record in my podcast Mike for the podcast version of this space, I was kind of doing a two in one Suze to make it just work because I didn't have the right hardware to make it all in one that was really what it boiled down to I had the hardware to do both of these separately. And it worked. But not an all in one. And I really just wanted everybody in spaces to hear me through my podcast mic. So I did a little bit of digging around a few months ago and realise if I just bought an I rig. I could use my podcast mic but not record. I was kind of fixing one thing but not fixing the overall. So of the three Twitter spaces I co host each week, I could use the iRig for my other two because I'm not recording them as a podcast. I'm just in spaces live and you have the replay. So the iRig has been working pretty well for me. And that's just a $50 piece of hardware guide on Amazon. And it allows me to use my Shure SM 7B microphone. Easy peasy. It’s just amazing. What took me so long to figure out? I could have been doing that these last two years. But I still couldn't use the hardware until I watched George's video last week. And then aha moment [laughs] Suze, and then I'm like watching a bunch of YouTube videos to learn even more and went on Amazon and I bought what George has, which is the Zoom PodTrak P4 which is only $150 on Amazon. And then he uses this Bluetooth adapter. And it's $50. And I know there's a little bit of debate some people have between using this Bluetooth adapter to that which allows you to connect your phone on Bluetooth, which is what I'm doing right now you all are hearing me on my iPhone using my podcast microphone, my Shure SM7B. But it's running on Bluetooth. And I've I've had plenty of people mentioned in spaces and in some YouTube videos I watched and just some Google reading that is better to use the cores of TRS cords, as I said. Is it a TRRS or TRS Suze I can't ever get it right?

Suze Cooper 38:53


Madalyn Sklar 38:53

Alright, okay to two ‘Rs’ There's two cables, these two trrs that will plug into the side of this zoom recorder to go into your phone. And there are plenty of people that say that that's better than doing the Bluetooth. Now one thing I will notice is that I'm wondering if there's some latency here? Do I feel like I'm gonna delay talking in spaces? Or do you not notice at all? I don't at the moment nine because here's what's interesting, because when I was doing my research over the last several days in making this change in reading about this Bluetooth adapter, plenty of people were saying in reviews that there's no latency, so it's fine. You don't have to do the cables that if you buy the cables, it's about $30. But if you do the Bluetooth is 50. Well, Bluetooth is way easier. So I'm just going for the Bluetooth. Everything I've read said that people have reviewed saying no latency is just as good as the cables. And it's definitely easier than plugging in because like you're already plugging in stuff to do this and so two less things to plug into not having the TRS And here's what's interesting. So when I'm looking at my phone, and it's been like this, since we've gone live at the top of the hour, you know, when you see the waveform when you're talking, it looks like it's delayed. But nobody's complain. And when I when I stopped talking is still moving. So I'm thinking, oh, man, I wonder if y'all hear me a little bit of a delay. So I've been wanting to wanting to ask you. If it is interesting that you're telling me it's not. So I don't know how to explain that. But how interesting that I'm able to use his Bluetooth device, it looks like I'm getting a delay. But I'm not, according to you all, can't wait to listen to the replay of this space to hear how this all sounded.

Suze Cooper 40:39

*confused* So that's the waveform that's showing on the screen on the zoom on the PodTrak?

Madalyn Sklar 40:45

On the No, no, in spaces, you know, we're in spaces. And we're looking to see the waveform of us speaking in real time. That's where I'm seeing the delay. No, when I look on the Zoom pod track is all fine. But we're when I look at the iPhone, in the Twitter app that because I'll stop talking and the waveform will still be moving. I'm like, why is it that every time I look? Why is it still moving already? Stop talking? Is it picking up background sound? I thought well, if it's picking up background, somebody was complaining somebody with DM George definitely would have been DM me like the second started. And I kept looking at my DMs going, nobody's complaining. But it looks like it's it's and so it must be something with part of this Bluetooth that even though it is working in real time, maybe just on the screen, it delays a little like half a second or so. I don't know. Interesting, though. Yeah.

Suze Cooper 41:37

Yeah, the geek in me is interested in why that might be. Yeah, and certainly, I'd heard about the latency problems with Bluetooth as well. And that's sometimes the problem when people use air pods is is that moment where someone's talking. And then someone talks over the top of them because there's that slight delay, with connecting, you know, via the headphones, and then the audio going into the microphone going microphone over to the phone into the app, blah, blah, blah, and you know, each section, if there's a slight delay, that all adds up to the point that then the conversation is very difficult to be had because there's this delay at every stage. So yeah, that that is that that's really interesting. And you're obviously, I mean, by using that trs cable, you're able to hear what's going on in the space, as well as talk into the space, which is, you know, the key to any of it, as well, which is, yeah, it's fantastic. And I'm so glad that it's a more cost efficient way of being able to do it as well, because obviously, you had the microphone, and the frustration is that you're then not being heard in the space using this, you know, amazing microphone, which could make all the difference to the sound quality. And also, you know, feels great when you're there hosting a space and you've got all your equipment set up. So yeah, I think it's a, it looks like a really great bit of kit. And thanks to George for sending over the video, because I had seen that as well. And it obviously prompted you to take that leap and buy the new kit.

Madalyn Sklar 43:12

Definitely. And you know, the thing is, I know when it comes to audio, not everybody really notices. It is kind of a subtle difference. You and I have been podcasters a long time I've been podcasting for 10 years. I started in 2013. And very quickly, I just felt like I became an audio snob when I dove all into all into podcasting. And I could tell differences, even though it might be subtle for plenty of people. And when I had used my air pods in spaces in the early days, I just cringed every time I listened to the replays. I'm like, why is my audio so bad? Why does George sound so great? My audio sucks. It just was driving me crazy. For the longest time it was like okay, don't use air pods. People said don't use the air pod microphone does not work well in spaces. So I stopped doing that went to the old school earbuds. But I'm like, I just need to figure out what I can do. Because for me personally when I listened to the replays of stuff, I want to sound as great as I can. I want to be able to use my podcast mic if if there's a way for me to but in this past year or so everybody talks about the road caster Pro and it sounds great and all but I just didn't feel like for me personally it was worth the large investment of money. Not to say it's not for plenty of people. Yeah, it does a lot. I think depending I was I wasn't podcasting much I mean I'm definitely getting back into podcasting now and 2023 but the Zoom PodTrak P4 is like a little mini mixer specifically for pods. I mean they did designed specifically for podcasters it gives me the ability to have me plus three other inputs of people on here live podcasting together and recording it they made this is a lot better than my zoom h5 recorder which only has two inputs, but it really just depends on what are your needs? And do I need all the bells and whistles within I'd be more interested in the Rodecaster Pro. But for what I'm trying to do right now I feel like this zoom recorder- had I known and realise it was only $150 I would have done this way sooner, I guess I just did not realise what all the options were and what it caused and is really making me realise maybe I need to make a little video to help people understand these differences so that there's not someone else out there going like me like I wish I had known sooner and I would have gotten something like this so I can improve my audio quality.

Suze Cooper 45:39

Well look, you know, I'm looking at the RodeCaster Pro in front of me and looking at your steel from your video that's up on the screen in front of me, you've got four channels there, I've got four channels using XLR inputs. Great, we've got that you've got headphones for each of those four channels and individual gain setting for each of those four channels. So have I, you can record straight to your SD card on that pod track and you've got a Bluetooth input. So have I the only the only difference that I can really see is that I've got some rainbow coloured buttons that I can source different bits of audio in I've got that soundboard basically.

Madalyn Sklar 46:18

Well, I have that too here. Let me do it for let me do it for the first time. I haven't done this yet. Let me try. See the little buttons that are lit up if you're in the nest, you'll see the little video I made those little buttons ABCD there are preset audio sounds. And I can sit here and press this and do these sounds *music plus from Madalyn’s set-up*

Madalyn Sklar 46:42

Let's go figure out how to turn it off. *laughs*

Suze Cooper 46:47

But yeah, so basically, we've got exactly the same capabilities but you've got more money in your pocket than I've got Madalyn.

Madalyn Sklar 46:52

Mine is compact is way smaller than yours and the price is lower than yours. But yours still does a lot more though, I know it does a lot more. It's colourful, this is not colourful at all is very the little screen is tiny is difficult to read, you have to when you first turn this thing on, when you first buy it, you gotta adjust the contrast, the contrast on this thing is terrible. You can barely read anything, you have to crank it way up to nine or 10. So but it's a it's a great piece of hardware. And George, thank you for making that video and sharing. And the Bluetooth is so nice.

George Silverman 47:28

I'm glad to hear that you realise that it makes recordings because I totally neglected to put that in my, in my video. I don't use the recording capability. Susan's mentioned in captions before. As you all know, I use otter for real time captions. So it's not as convenient. But people can still follow along with a transcript. And then there’s Descript. If you feed the script in if you feed it, feed the audio into the script later. It's an even better transcript. And it allows phenomenal, phenomenally easy editing. So that's kind of handled.

Madalyn Sklar 48:07

And you know what a little tip I've been learning with ChatGPT, which you love to talk about George, you could transcribe this into otter and then put it into the chat GPT and then tell it to take the transcript and make a summary.

George Silverman 48:20

Yeah, exactly. And otter will make a summary too automatically, I believe otter will automatically summarise the key points in a discussion. It's crazy. You sound really fabulous by the way.

Madalyn Sklar 48:34

Well, good. And you know what? Well, here's what you're so so funny. So when I bought that iRig, about a month, month and a half ago, I did a test just like I did earlier, I just started a space, no warning for anybody just to test and record it and set it for recording. So I just want to see what it sounded like. Mostly to set that game you get that's the one thing you gotta get just right is the game. So your volume through your mic is not too high or too low to have done distort. When I got that I rigged George, I just guessed. And when I played it back, it was perfect. And I think you and I talked about it a few times, I watched a bunch of I probably spent two hours last night watching YouTube videos to learn all the ins and outs, which was very well, time well spent. I learned a couple of things. So first of all, setting that game. It really just depends. I'm using a cloud lifter that I always use to boost the gain of my of my shore microphone. So I saw a video last night where somebody tested it with and without that. And he says well if you use your CloudLifter you only need to set the gain like around three. So when I did my test earlier, I just set it like a little bit above three. And so I just guess okay, I'm sitting here doing this space. A few people randomly showed up. I'm like doing emoji if I sound okay, but also what I do when I'm doing a test and this is just another a great tip for anybody that's ever testing spaces. Also have it up on your desktop. Have it On. So like you're in the space, mute it because you don't want that competing and it will, it will not be in real time it will be off a bit. Sometimes it's 20 or 30 seconds delayed. But there was only one person listening in the very beginning and I just told them, okay, okay, I'm going to unmute my desktop for a minute just to see what this sounds like, just for a second. I sounded so good on desktop. I'm thinking, wow, I really guessed well on the gain number. So yeah, you know, I'm just George, I'm super impressed with this setup. It doesn't break the bank, does a lot of great stuff and you save

George Silverman 50:30

400 bucks, so you can pick up lunch next time I'm in Houston. There you go.

Madalyn Sklar 50:36

It's just a little bit bigger than my Zoom h5 recorder, but not that much bigger. And so if just I realised it can just sit on my desk, I don't even have to move it. I was gonna buy a case for it. I thought, why do I need a case? Because the only thing is when you buy this thing, it comes with nothing. It comes with two batteries. And that was the other thing I learned George. I watched a very powerful video last night on YouTube, where they talked about Yeah, cuz it only comes with batteries. I'm like, wait a minute, how do I plug this in? Like, you know what I love about my my Zoom h5 recorder is that I just keep it plugged into my computer when I'm using it. So it's always powered. The batteries should be more for backup, not just as a standalone. And so here's what I did last night. Love Amazon disclaimer love Amazon because they make things easy for me. I needed the USB C cables, which it does not come with. And so in watching these videos last night, you need two USB C cables. One can plug in for power. The other one you can you need to plug into your computer if you're going to be transferring the files. So and everybody in these videos pretty much said the best way to do this is have it plugged into USB, and the batteries or the backup or plugging into a power bank. Because while it can be up to four hours, that people say it really can depend on how you're running.

George Silverman 51:57

But the beauty is you can throw it in a case and take it out in a plane with you. Yeah, very portable. So when I travel, I take it with me. Yeah, sound just as good from Israel as I do from here.

Madalyn Sklar 52:08

Yeah, it's impressive. Now we know how you how you do it all George. It all makes sense now.

George Silverman 52:14

Oh the other thing is you it's really important to make sure that your mic on the iPhone, there's a there's a microphone setting. And it's not always in the control panel. You know, when you sweep from the your thumb from the upper right. There's a mic mode it says And that's the you get standard voice isolation and wide spectrum. You really have to have it on standard. If you have an on voice isolation doesn't pick up the sound effect. doesn't pick up a lot of things. But voice isolation does cut the background noise.

Madalyn Sklar 52:51

One quick question because we do have some other speakers George, do you run into any issues with this Bluetooth adapter? Have you had any opportunities where like something dropped with a Bluetooth and then it just everything dies? You have to worry about anything?

George Silverman 53:04

It's the most reliable, totally reliable. That's amazing. Okay, high very high fidelity. It

Madalyn Sklar 53:10

made me a little nervous because it is Bluetooth, but...

George Silverman 53:13

The lag in what I call the talker, Id the little wave that that is just a visual. It's going through a bunch of stuff to create it.

Madalyn Sklar 53:22

Well. Let's get to our other speakers. Greg is up next. Hi, Greg. Thank you for joining us.

Greg Lunt 53:26

Hey, guys, good to talk to you again. Great space as always. I had a couple questions. So back, I've been a big supporter of social audio for a long time and 2018 and 2019 I actually built an audio dating app where it was basically live audio speed dating, we ran about 20 events in LA, where people would pick questions that are like first day kind of funny questions, flirted questions, whatever they wanted, and then they would get automatically paired up with people at a certain event time.

George Silverman 54:00

It was your own platform?

Greg Lunt 54:02

Yeah, we built it as a web app at the time and and people would meet in three to five minute like voice calls with their questions in the room in case like you know, there's any dead air they'd have some questions to fall back on. And then they'd see their pictures after the call and decide if they wanted to match. So it went really well. My question around that is you know, I'm a baby I used to be anyway a power user on clubhouse before spaces came out and it kind of died a little bit over there. I feel like they would do really well if they thought about the dating space because the I don't know if you guys have ever done online dating or anything but it's so stale. And the swiping and I'm texting is just really not a good way to meet someone and you guys understand how powerful audio is and trying to you know, feel somebody's emotion and say what you want to say and not feel like you're under pressure of video, and all these great things. So what do you make of clubhouse adding some sort of like one on In one romantic future.

Madalyn Sklar 55:04

That's an interesting idea. Wow.

Suze Cooper 55:09

Wow, they've, as we discussed earlier, they've come up with a whole host of ideas if the reverse engineered leaks are to be believed, and if they all turn into new things. To be honest, it feels like clubhouse is

Suze Cooper 55:26

being experimental and trying to find out how people want to use the app. And that feels like perhaps why there's so many different ideas and things coming coming out of there at the moment. So I definitely wouldn't put it past them to set something like that up. They've been very much thinking about how to how old how social audio can be used to cement relationships. And you know, the whole idea of bringing someone into the conversation that might be a mutual friend, when you're both in a conversation already on clubhouse and inviting people in and expanding your network and all those kinds of different ideas. I mean, what do you recommend Madalyn?

Madalyn Sklar 56:14

Yeah I think this is such an interesting idea. I love it. One question I have, Greg is what happened to that app you had built, you and your team and built,?

Greg Lunt 56:24

I pretty much decided that I didn't foresee myself being like a tech entrepreneur, like raising millions of dollars. And that wasn't really the life I want to live. So I kind of gave it up. It was getting good reviews, people were enjoying it. There are some other apps that have tried to do some similar things. I still believe in the future of dating. But with clubhouse in particular, I mean, it's so stale over there. And like the only rooms that really go off, as far as I can tell, are like they're either like, really political and like are kind of like, or they're like kind of shoot your shot. And like dating rooms and like talking about relationships and things. So, you know, you make a good point Suze about, you know, kind of already having some social graph information in there that could help in terms of pairing people up and, you know, interests and all those types of things. And then of course, just the audio itself is such a powerful feature. And they need to monetize. So like if they could create some sort of, you know, small subscription to enter into this. You know, space, I think Tinder and Bumble and all these companies are just completely ripe for disruption. So I was reading an owl, but I never really posted it. But yeah, that's something that I've been thinking about for a long time.

Madalyn Sklar 57:39

And it's very interesting. I think clubhouse would be the right platform for something like that.

Greg Lunt 57:45

I have one other question, if that's okay. I am kind of switching up my brand right now on Twitter. And I'm moving off of web three and into more of like a mindset and self growth space and helping people kind of navigate not just the crypto markets, but also life. And very early, I've only started this like three days ago, about a month preparation I launched a couple days ago. And part of what I want to do is extend into a newsletter and have some audio embedded in that through substack. What do you guys think of like, short, like bite size, you know, three minutes, five minutes daily, in your email inbox with kind of like, directly, no positive directional content for your day through audio.

Madalyn Sklar 58:35

Suze knows all about that you've come to the right place, Greg, you're at the right place at the right time for this. Take it away Suze...

Suze Cooper 58:44

I created a daily three minute podcast for about 18 months, maybe two years, which was available as a flash briefing on smart speakers. And it's great fun to do. But I found I had to batch create and bulk that work because the point at which it came to doing it the night before was not fun. But certainly there's there was an appetite for it. And there was an audience for it. It was solely the pandemic and my lack of resource in terms of time that stopped me doing it not the fact that people weren't listening. In fact, once I'd stopped it, I actually had people getting in touch with me and saying, 'oh, where's it gone? You are coming back?' which was lovely, because you do kind of record these things and, and send them out into the ether. And, you know, you see the numbers and the data and whatever button a number on a graph isn't quite the same as someone getting in touch and saying that they really enjoyed your content. So yeah, I think there's definitely room for something like that. substack is the newsletter platform at the moment that is leaning into audio and allowing you to do that so I would most certainly experiment with it over there. And I'd be really interested to hear what the feedback is once you're up and running on it, I think it's a great idea.

Madalyn Sklar 1:00:10

And Andrew, you're up next. Thanks for being so patient.

Andrew Lyons 1:00:13

Hey, not a problem. Now you're over running slowly, but just wanted to touch on those February numbers that we released. I mean, they're quite staggering that even with a short month, and you know, we really love the idea of converting the fact that if you try to listen back to back to all of the Twitter spaces that were created, just in February, it will take you 214 years.

Madalyn Sklar 1:00:41

And that's insane.

Andrew Lyons 1:00:43

Compared to January and Februarys numbers, February created an additional 20 years worth of content.

George Silverman 1:00:50

Now are more people on Twitter now, holding Spaces? It sounds like more people are on Twitter. Now. I looked up the numbers, and they're a little contradictory, but it sounds like three to five per cent more.

Andrew Lyons 1:01:05

Yeah, I don't I don't think more people coming on to Twitter, which would be the issue with Twitter spaces, because I still don't think Twitter doing a good enough job in regards to letting people know about the amazing Twitter spaces. And I think it could be fixed with one big fail initiative by Elon. Because as Madalyn says, when he joins us space, those spaces, obviously see some really massive numbers. Now he's only ever joined nine Twitter spaces. And the issue has, he's always joined a space that was going, what I would love to see is that Elon prepares and sheduled a space and lets everybody know, hey, I'm having a space on this day.

George Silverman 1:01:48

That would just break it.

Madalyn Sklar 1:01:48

That would break Twitter

George Silverman 1:01:52

That would break the whole internet.

Madalyn Sklar 1:01:54

Why has he not done that? Why do you think he has not done that already?

Andrew Lyons 1:01:58

I think he's waiting for the for the right time, whether it be his first townhall. I know he's got a Tesla event running now, which is running five minutes behind. He's obviously a busy guy. But I think once he does this, and now that we've heard that the brands are now starting to look back at Twitter in regards to the ad spend, he now needs to just let all of the big brands know this is a huge opportunity to build ongoing authentic relationships with with the communities that you're already trying to target. And once he does it once he sets up his first sheduled space that we can all sign up for, get an alert for because at the moment when he joins, we're relying on the fact that Twitter's impromptu alert system that lets people know, but most people miss out on that. Unless, of course, you've got some secret sauce with a service that alerts you when any speaker you've chosen starts co hosts or speaks in a space.

Madalyn Sklar 1:02:55

Well said.

Andrew Lyons 1:02:56

Coming soon. Whoever was absolutely staggering 20 spaces doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Let's just hope that the the layoffs that you talked about earlier doesn't impact too much. And he's got a plan in place that we just are not aware of at the moment. It would seem a very big shame if this was to let go based on these numbers.

George Silverman 1:03:21

Well, he wants it to be a town hall. And he wants it to be ideas more than people. Whereas clubhouse I think is people more than ideas. And if it's a space for ideas, he's going in the right direction. Everybody knows, I'm like deliriously ecstatic, over long spaces, which long, long tweets, which is a whole other topic. But the My point is that it's integrated. So you got the short tweets, you got the long tweet, you got threads, you got atomic essays, you got spaces, now you're going to have longer videos, then you're going to have real long form videos, on our videos, you know, stuff like that. It's going to be the play the central hub for ideas in every form. And you like audio, you can get audio you like video, you can get video. So to answer Greg's question also, I think some I'm just amazed at how many people just love videos. Some people just love audio. I can't listen to audiobooks, I hate them. Other people love them, and I'm an audio guy. But if people can get all their modalities in the same place, oh my god. Yeah, that will lock in everybody. You will not be able to not be here. Like if you're a journalist, you can't not be here. How can you How could you be a professional journalist and not be on Twitter? That's like irresponsible. It's like a surgeon not sterilising their instrument. You can't do it.

Andrew Lyons 1:04:55

Now, George, let me take that one step further. Imagine Imagine if there was a service that allowed you to get notification anytime anybody mentioned any of your tweets in a space. How many brands journalists would need that everybody in the whole world would want that? I can't imagine why you wouldn't want that.

George Silverman 1:05:14

That would be huge. That up your sleeve?

Andrew Lyons 1:05:18

That's done. We're just baking at the moment and ready in the next couple of weeks.

George Silverman 1:05:23

Andrew, you know, Andrew is one of the most creative guys I've ever met. I've studied creative people all my life. Andrew is just an another nother world.

Madalyn Sklar 1:05:34

That's awesome, Andrew, especially with all this stuff going on at Twitter over these past several months. I mean, you just keep going. I love it. Thank you for all the hard work you do.

Madalyn Sklar 1:05:48

Thank you to all of our speakers who came on and shared so much great stuff, and we're available and all of your favourite podcast apps were out there all things audio, you can also go to all things audio as well,

Suze Cooper 1:06:02

You certainly can. And you can catch us here on Twitter and use the hashtag all things audio, and we'll pick that up throughout the week. So that's it for this week. But thank you so much to everyone that's been here in the space with us and those of you listening, and we'll catch up with you next week. Bye everybody.

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